religion & politics

[Harlan Huckleby]

Yesterday I heard a "news" story on NPR speculating on whether Palin is a drone who will be directed by the bible in her decision making. Sounds a lot like JFK being controlled by the Pope in 1960.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94332540

Similar story in the NY Times today about Palin's suspicious association with Pentecostal church. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/06/us/politics/06church.html?ref=politics

I think it is legitimate to reintroduce Reverand Wright into the debate. He's been gone far too long, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[hoosier]

Just wondering, has Obama referred to any of his proposed policies as "doing God's work"?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think anybody who is a sincere Christian has to see all of their actions as doing God's work, I have zero problem with that statement.

IF there is some (apparently very bored) higher power up there, monitoring each and every one of our actions, and and an afterlife to look forward to, then what could possibly be more important than trying to live according to this God's purpose?

Personally, I long for the day when it is OK for an atheist to run for office. Then we wouldn't have politicians like Obama sitting in nut-job churches, thinking they are covering their asses.

[Scott Campbell]

IF there is some (apparently very bored) higher power up there, monitoring each and every one of our actions.......


Then you sir, are in some deep shit.

[mraynrand]

Obama has stated that he as left Trinity, and he will not join a church until after the election.

[BallHawk]

Personally, I long for the day when it is OK for an atheist to run for office.

Then move to Europe.

[mraynrand]

Personally, I long for the day when it is OK for an atheist to run for office.

Then move to Europe.

It's OK right now. no one will stop you. Just fewer will vote for you. It wouldn't surprise me though if some who have run as believers were actually for all practical purposes, atheists.

[texaspackerbacker]

I read a quote from Obama that he is "gratified that this is no longer a Christian nation". He may be in for a bit of a surprise come election time.

So Sarah is a "Holy Roller"? Would that be morally equivalent to a revelation that Barak Obama is a break dancer?

One day the left accuses her of an adulterous affair, and the next day, it's "she'll allow her decision-making to be determined by the Bible"--like that's a bad thing. I'd say the left is just a little bit desperate.

[BallHawk]

One day the left accuses her of an adulterous affair.....

When did the National Enquirer become the voice of the Democratic Party?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

One day the left accuses her of an adulterous affair.....

When did the National Enquirer become the voice of the Democratic Party?

the same day the KKK became the voice of the right.

[mraynrand]

One day the left accuses her of an adulterous affair.....

When did the National Enquirer become the voice of the Democratic Party?

the same day the KKK became the voice of the right.

Robert C. Byrd is on the right?

[Scott Campbell]

One day the left accuses her of an adulterous affair.....

When did the National Enquirer become the voice of the Democratic Party?

the same day the KKK became the voice of the right.


Quit being so uppity.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

One day the left accuses her of an adulterous affair.....

When did the National Enquirer become the voice of the Democratic Party?

the same day the KKK became the voice of the right.

Robert C. Byrd is on the right?

So predictable.

Do i have to go into the lengthy list of repubs elected that were KKK members...AGAIN! :lol:

[mraynrand]

One day the left accuses her of an adulterous affair.....

When did the National Enquirer become the voice of the Democratic Party?

the same day the KKK became the voice of the right.

Robert C. Byrd is on the right?

So predictable.

Do i have to go into the lengthy list of repubs elected that were KKK members...AGAIN! :lol:

No, just tell me about all the democrats that voted for the 14th and 15th amendment, and all the Republicans who voted for Jim Crow laws. How about the voting records during the civil rights movement?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

One day the left accuses her of an adulterous affair.....

When did the National Enquirer become the voice of the Democratic Party?

the same day the KKK became the voice of the right.


Quit being so uppity.

I'm goin' too, Miss Daisy.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

One day the left accuses her of an adulterous affair.....

When did the National Enquirer become the voice of the Democratic Party?

the same day the KKK became the voice of the right.

Robert C. Byrd is on the right?

So predictable.

Do i have to go into the lengthy list of repubs elected that were KKK members...AGAIN! :lol:

No, just tell me about all the democrats that voted for the 14th and 15th amendment, and all the Republicans who voted for Jim Crow laws. How about the voting records during the civil rights movement?

Stop being an ass. We are talking now, not in the past.

Far be it from you to actually castigate someone for saying the Enquirer represents the dems. :oops:

As for the past. LBJ essentially gave away the south to the repubs by pushing civil rights. All those dems are now repubs. Deny it...you can't.

[mraynrand]

As for the past. LBJ essentially gave away the south to the repubs by pushing civil rights. All those dems are now repubs. Deny it...you can't.
You're out of your mind. Almost all the southern Democrats in 1964 voted against the civil rights laws. Byrd was the only 'Northern' Democrat to vote against it. Why didn't the dems vote with LBJ?

You're a fool for bringing up the KKK, which is essentially defunct. The history of the Democratic party and civil rights for Blacks is abysmal. First they were against al the important amendments and Civil rights laws, and then, starting mainly with LBJ, they destroyed black families with great society programs.

And National enquirer? Are you really bringing that up? You're the fool who started threads about 'news stories' from that rag, trying to make a lame connection with the Edwards story that was completely untrue. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were wasted or something.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

As for the past. LBJ essentially gave away the south to the repubs by pushing civil rights. All those dems are now repubs. Deny it...you can't.
You're out of your mind. Almost all the southern Democrats in 1964 voted against the civil rights laws. Byrd was the only 'Northern' Democrat to vote against it. Why didn't the dems vote with LBJ?

You're a fool for bringing up the KKK, which is essentially defunct. The history of the Democratic party and civil rights for Blacks is abysmal. First they were against al the important amendments and Civil rights laws, and then, starting mainly with LBJ, they destroyed black families with great society programs.

And National enquirer? Are you really bringing that up? You're the fool who started threads about 'news stories' from that rag, trying to make a lame connection with the Edwards story that was completely untrue. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were wasted or something.

My god, you are dense. Of course they did...and now they are REPUBLICANS. Deny it.

When did i say they did differently. LBJ broke from the south dems and essentially lost them forever.

Again, we are talkng now. And, if you think the KKK is dead..then you are really dumb. And, if we accept your premise..fine, let's just substitue XXX amount of white power groups instead. Perhaps a visit to the SPLC's website is needed.

NE thread..nope..right in here...funny how you can reply to me, but miss the whole point of the quote boxes. Time to adjust your meds.

[Joemailman]

I think anybody who is a sincere Christian has to see all of their actions as doing God's work, I have zero problem with that statement.

IF there is some (apparently very bored) higher power up there, monitoring each and every one of our actions, and and an afterlife to look forward to, then what could possibly be more important than trying to live according to this God's purpose?

Personally, I long for the day when it is OK for an atheist to run for office. Then we wouldn't have politicians like Obama sitting in nut-job churches, thinking they are covering their asses.

I'm a religious person, but I deplore the mixing of religion and politics. Anyone with a sense of history should see that doing so tends to corrupt religion. Christ had followers who wanted him to use his status as a preacher to achieve political gains for the Israelites. Christ saw the folly of this. If only more religious leaders would follow his example.

[falco]

I think anybody who is a sincere Christian has to see all of their actions as doing God's work, I have zero problem with that statement.

IF there is some (apparently very bored) higher power up there, monitoring each and every one of our actions, and and an afterlife to look forward to, then what could possibly be more important than trying to live according to this God's purpose?

Personally, I long for the day when it is OK for an atheist to run for office. Then we wouldn't have politicians like Obama sitting in nut-job churches, thinking they are covering their asses.

I'm a religious person, but I deplore the mixing of religion and politics. Anyone with a sense of history should see that doing so tends to corrupt religion. Christ had followers who wanted him to use his status as a preacher to achieve political gains for the Israelites. Christ saw the folly of this. If only more religious leaders would follow his example.

religion + politics = lots of dead people

[mraynrand]

My god, you are dense. Of course they did...and now they are REPUBLICANS. Deny it.


Who is left? Robert C. Byrd is a Democrat. He didn't change affiliation.

How many current Republicans are you willing to libel?

[HowardRoark]

I'm a religious person, but I deplore the mixing of religion and politics. Anyone with a sense of history should see that doing so tends to corrupt religion. Christ had followers who wanted him to use his status as a preacher to achieve political gains for the Israelites. Christ saw the folly of this. If only more religious leaders would follow his example.

One of the best things I have ever read at PackerRats.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm a religious person, but I deplore the mixing of religion and politics. Anyone with a sense of history should see that doing so tends to corrupt religion. Christ had followers who wanted him to use his status as a preacher to achieve political gains for the Israelites. Christ saw the folly of this. If only more religious leaders would follow his example.

One of the best things I have ever read at PackerRats.

It is and it isn't. Coming from Joe with his history of posting--liberal as it may be, I can still see the sentiment as sincere and genuine. However, I've heard similar words countless times from completely disingenuous haters of all Christ stood for, not to mention America.

The fact is, politics and religion are inexorably intertwined for a couple of reasons: First of all, America's primary enemies in the past half century or more have made hatred of OUR religion and heritage their primary focus. Secondly, the fundamental premise of the message put out by both sides in the political realm is that THEY have the moral highground--and moral highground correlates closely to religious virtue.

America has been a Christian nation from its inception. That fact is in no way contradictory to the Constitutional prohibition of a state religion. The situation simply is what it is. Barak Obama expressed joy the other day that it's his observation that America NO LONGER IS a Christian nation. Well, I'd say, that's one of the questions that will be cleared up a bit on election day.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm a religious person, but I deplore the mixing of religion and politics. Anyone with a sense of history should see that doing so tends to corrupt religion. Christ had followers who wanted him to use his status as a preacher to achieve political gains for the Israelites. Christ saw the folly of this. If only more religious leaders would follow his example.

One of the best things I have ever read at PackerRats.

You have changed the topic. You are saying that using religion to achieve political power is wrong. Fine. We can all agree on that, I suspect.

But should religious belief inform political postions? OF COURSE! How could a person possibly separate their religous beliefs from their decisons on political questions, the overlap is unavoidable.

[mraynrand]

Obama's writings in an email

"For progressives, I think we should recognize the role that values and culture play in addressing some of our most urgent social problems. As I've said many times before, the problems of poverty and racism, the uninsured and the unemployed aren't simply technical problems in search of a ten-point plan. They're rooted in both societal indifference and individual callousness - in the imperfections of man. When a gang-banger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels somebody disrespected him, we've got a moral problem. There's a hole in that young man's heart - a hole that the government alone cannot fix."

"I think that the right might worry a bit more about the dangers of sectarianism. Whatever we once were, we're no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers. We should acknowledge this and realize that when we're formulating policies from the state house to the Senate floor to the White House, we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."

From a speech last month:

"Somehow, somewhere along the way, faith stopped being used to bring us together and started being used to drive us apart. It got hijacked. Part of it's because of the so-called leaders of the Christian Right, who've been all too eager to exploit what divides us."

"My intention was to contrast the heated partisan rhetoric of a distinct minority of Christian leaders with the vast majority of Evangelical Christians - conservatives included - who believe that hate has no place in our politics. When you have pastors and television pundits who appear to explicitly coordinate with one political party; when you're implying that your fellow Americans are traitors, terrorist sympathizers or akin to the devil himself; then I think you're attempting to hijack the faith of those who follow you for your own personal or political ends."

"I don't think it's helpful as candidates or as a country to get into discussions about who's more religious. That sounds a little like storing up treasures on earth to me. I've just always been clear that my Christian faith has motivated me for twenty years and I'm not ashamed to talk about it, or the role that faith should play in our American life."

[BallHawk]

First of all, America's primary enemies in the past half century or more have made hatred of OUR religion

Not true. People like Osama Bin Laden have become our enemies because we meddled around in their country's affairs, not because our country is Christian. Quite frankly, he couldn't give a damn who we worship. When we came into the middle east and started screwing around with things THAT is when trouble started, not when we became believers in Jesus Christ.

[HarveyWallbangers]

People like Osama Bin Laden have become our enemies because we meddled around in their country's affairs.

What are you, French?

[BallHawk]

People like Osama Bin Laden have become our enemies because we meddled around in their country's affairs.

What are you, French?

I'll have to check my family tree. I think I have some French in there somewhere.

[Harlan Huckleby]

ballhawk, your family tree is more like a pole.

[Harlan Huckleby]

msaynrand, I don't see any contradiction in those two quotes from Obama.

[mraynrand]

msaynrand, I don't see any contradiction in those two quotes from Obama.

I wasn't suggesting anything. I was posting the relevant quotes that Tex was referring to - I may comment at some point, but I just wanted to post the actual text for reference.

[HowardRoark]

Ty, get on this will you. Tell him it's laughable to have universal values.


we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."

[texaspackerbacker]

First of all, America's primary enemies in the past half century or more have made hatred of OUR religion

Not true. People like Osama Bin Laden have become our enemies because we meddled around in their country's affairs, not because our country is Christian. Quite frankly, he couldn't give a damn who we worship. When we came into the middle east and started screwing around with things THAT is when trouble started, not when we became believers in Jesus Christ.

First of all, thank you, Aynrand, for doing the digging. I knew they existed, but tend to be a little lazy about searching for stuff like that.

Ballhawk, you are WRONG. Worse, you are giving credence to the rhetoric our enemies use to justify their indefensible acts. While it is true that radical Muslims have at the root of their evil movement the desire to turn back the clock and reverse the effort to bring western values and civilized behavior to their part of the world, it is indeed a matter of religion, as the values and civilized behavior are part and parcel the product of Judeo-Christian teachings--while the barbarism and depravity are pure unrefined Islamic teachings--hence the term Muslim "fundamentalism".

If that's too much for you to comprehend, Ballhawk, you just synthesize it down to: we're right and good; they're bad and wrong. And therein lies the difference between pro-American and conservative people and anti-American liberal people. WE acknowledge that simple truth; THEY do not. Go ahead and prove it, Ballhawk and anybody else from the left.

[HowardRoark]

First of all, America's primary enemies in the past half century or more have made hatred of OUR religion

Not true. People like Osama Bin Laden have become our enemies because we meddled around in their country's affairs, not because our country is Christian. Quite frankly, he couldn't give a damn who we worship. When we came into the middle east and started screwing around with things THAT is when trouble started, not when we became believers in Jesus Christ.

First of all, thank you, Aynrand, for doing the digging. I knew they existed, but tend to be a little lazy about searching for stuff like that.

Ballhawk, you are WRONG. Worse, you are giving credence to the rhetoric our enemies use to justify their indefensible acts. While it is true that radical Muslims have at the root of their evil movement the desire to turn back the clock and reverse the effort to bring western values and civilized behavior to their part of the world, it is indeed a matter of religion, as the values and civilized behavior are part and parcel the product of Judeo-Christian teachings--while the barbarism and depravity are pure unrefined Islamic teachings--hence the term Muslim "fundamentalism".

If that's too much for you to comprehend, Ballhawk, you just synthesize it down to: we're right and good; they're bad and wrong. And therein lies the difference between pro-American and conservative people and anti-American liberal people. WE acknowledge that simple truth; THEY do not. Go ahead and prove it, Ballhawk and anybody else from the left.

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

[texaspackerbacker]

First of all, America's primary enemies in the past half century or more have made hatred of OUR religion

Not true. People like Osama Bin Laden have become our enemies because we meddled around in their country's affairs, not because our country is Christian. Quite frankly, he couldn't give a damn who we worship. When we came into the middle east and started screwing around with things THAT is when trouble started, not when we became believers in Jesus Christ.

First of all, thank you, Aynrand, for doing the digging. I knew they existed, but tend to be a little lazy about searching for stuff like that.

Ballhawk, you are WRONG. Worse, you are giving credence to the rhetoric our enemies use to justify their indefensible acts. While it is true that radical Muslims have at the root of their evil movement the desire to turn back the clock and reverse the effort to bring western values and civilized behavior to their part of the world, it is indeed a matter of religion, as the values and civilized behavior are part and parcel the product of Judeo-Christian teachings--while the barbarism and depravity are pure unrefined Islamic teachings--hence the term Muslim "fundamentalism".

If that's too much for you to comprehend, Ballhawk, you just synthesize it down to: we're right and good; they're bad and wrong. And therein lies the difference between pro-American and conservative people and anti-American liberal people. WE acknowledge that simple truth; THEY do not. Go ahead and prove it, Ballhawk and anybody else from the left.

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

Why would you--presumably a good pro-American and Christian person, even ASK such a question? "By their fruits you shall know them" Take a quick look around the world and examine the fruits of Judeo-Christian beliefs, values, and heritage. Then check out the fruits of Islam, atheism, or any other two bit crap religion. Is that enough to answer your question? I certainly hope so. If not, you're pretty far gone.

[BallHawk]

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

Because America follows them and thus are the one and only teachings that can be followed without be denounced as barbaric and uncivilized.

[HowardRoark]

First of all, America's primary enemies in the past half century or more have made hatred of OUR religion

Not true. People like Osama Bin Laden have become our enemies because we meddled around in their country's affairs, not because our country is Christian. Quite frankly, he couldn't give a damn who we worship. When we came into the middle east and started screwing around with things THAT is when trouble started, not when we became believers in Jesus Christ.

First of all, thank you, Aynrand, for doing the digging. I knew they existed, but tend to be a little lazy about searching for stuff like that.

Ballhawk, you are WRONG. Worse, you are giving credence to the rhetoric our enemies use to justify their indefensible acts. While it is true that radical Muslims have at the root of their evil movement the desire to turn back the clock and reverse the effort to bring western values and civilized behavior to their part of the world, it is indeed a matter of religion, as the values and civilized behavior are part and parcel the product of Judeo-Christian teachings--while the barbarism and depravity are pure unrefined Islamic teachings--hence the term Muslim "fundamentalism".

If that's too much for you to comprehend, Ballhawk, you just synthesize it down to: we're right and good; they're bad and wrong. And therein lies the difference between pro-American and conservative people and anti-American liberal people. WE acknowledge that simple truth; THEY do not. Go ahead and prove it, Ballhawk and anybody else from the left.

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

Why would you--presumably a good pro-American and Christian person, even ASK such a question? "By their fruits you shall know them" Take a quick look around the world and examine the fruits of Judeo-Christian beliefs, values, and heritage. Then check out the fruits of Islam, atheism, or any other two bit crap religion. Is that enough to answer your question?

Yes, thank you. By George, I think you've got it.

[texaspackerbacker]

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

Because America follows them and thus are the one and only teachings that can be followed without be denounced as barbaric and uncivilized.

And YOU actually claim to NOT see it that way? Are you blind or just stupid. Look at the rest of the world compared to western civilization .... look at America compared to the rest of western civilization.

Feel free to think otherwise, though. It will AGAIN cost the elitist assholes of your side the election.

[BallHawk]

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

Because America follows them and thus are the one and only teachings that can be followed without be denounced as barbaric and uncivilized.

And YOU actually claim to NOT see it that way? Are you blind or just stupid. Look at the rest of the world compared to western civilization .... look at America compared to the rest of western civilization.

Feel free to think otherwise, though. It will AGAIN cost the elitist assholes of your side the election.

I feel that Islam at its roots is a solid, clean religion that does not deserve any more scrutiny than Christianity or Judaism. Islamic Fundamentalism has tarnished its name and turned Islam into the world's enemy.

Look at Turkey, Tex. Turkey's economy is on the up. The country is making strides in infrastructure and human rights. They are becoming one of the big players in the world. But why? Because they are SECULAR. Do not associate all of Islam as one big theocracy that prides itself on being the destroyers of Christianity. Places like Afghanistan are in shambles because Islam severely diminishes what people in the country can do. However, not all countries are Islamic Republics that wish death upon Christians.

[texaspackerbacker]

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

Because America follows them and thus are the one and only teachings that can be followed without be denounced as barbaric and uncivilized.

And YOU actually claim to NOT see it that way? Are you blind or just stupid. Look at the rest of the world compared to western civilization .... look at America compared to the rest of western civilization.

Feel free to think otherwise, though. It will AGAIN cost the elitist assholes of your side the election.

I feel that Islam at its roots is a solid, clean religion that does not deserve any more scrutiny than Christianity or Judaism. Islamic Fundamentalism has tarnished its name and turned Islam into the world's enemy.

Look at Turkey, Tex. Turkey's economy is on the up. The country is making strides in infrastructure and human rights. They are becoming one of the big players in the world. But why? Because they are SECULAR. Do not associate all of Islam as one big theocracy that prides itself on being the destroyers of Christianity. Places like Afghanistan are in shambles because Islam severely diminishes what people in the country can do. However, not all countries are Islamic Republics that wish death upon Christians.

Ballhawk, do you even know what "fundamentalism" means? It means getting back to the pure true teachings of the holy book--the Bible in the case of Christian fundamentalism, the Koran in the case of Muslim fundamentalism. It's all written right there--the hate for Jews and Christians, the barbarism, the beheadings, the mistreatment of women, the glorification of ignorance, the suppression of freedom and advocacy of tyranny, etc.

Now I suppose some of our sick leftist haters of America and Christianity will trot out "moral equivalence" and find fault with a few of the darker passages of the Old Testament too, but the simple fact is: Our western Christian American values and beliefs benefit humanity, while Islam does not. Could you possibly continue to argue otherwise?

You brought up Turkey; Turkey is an exception--a westernized NON fundamentalist example of Islam. Even there, though, there are factions which want to turn back the clock to barbarism and depravity.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Ballhawk, do you even know what "fundamentalism" means? It means getting back to the pure true teachings of the holy book--the Bible in the case of Christian fundamentalism, the Koran in the case of Muslim fundamentalism. It's all written right there--the hate for Jews and Christians, the barbarism, the beheadings, the mistreatment of women, the glorification of ignorance, the suppression of freedom and advocacy of tyranny, etc..

The Torah, Quran, and Old Testement are all based on the same scriptures. The Quran is mostly a retelling/reinterpretation of the same stories.

I suppose this doesn't prove that Islam isn't some evil deviation. But most Muslims in the world do not fit your characterization.

[BallHawk]

I suppose this doesn't prove that Islam isn't some evil deviation. But most Muslims in the world do not fit your characterization.

You mean most Muslims don't walk around carrying machetes, burning the cross, all while being lambasted in the blood of American virgins? :roll:

The way Muslims are painted in today's world is very similar to the way the Native Americans were portrayed when America was expanding west. Savage beasts, killing women and children with no mercy, etc.

[texaspackerbacker]

Ballhawk, do you even know what "fundamentalism" means? It means getting back to the pure true teachings of the holy book--the Bible in the case of Christian fundamentalism, the Koran in the case of Muslim fundamentalism. It's all written right there--the hate for Jews and Christians, the barbarism, the beheadings, the mistreatment of women, the glorification of ignorance, the suppression of freedom and advocacy of tyranny, etc..

The Torah, Quran, and Old Testement are all based on the same scriptures. The Quran is mostly a retelling/reinterpretation of the same stories.

I suppose this doesn't prove that Islam isn't some evil deviation. But most Muslims in the world do not fit your characterization.

That's because most Muslims presumably are not fundamentalists. The ones who are CLEARLY do fit the characterization, and even though they probably ARE a minority, they have the majority of Muslims scared shitless with their tyranny and barbarism--ALL part of the big picture of western/Christian/American enlightenment and humanity, and fundamentalist Muslim rottenness and depravity to all mankind, including the less rotten of their own kind.

[Harlan Huckleby]

it is interesting to see what is going on in Pakistan. That is the bloody front line of the battle within Islam. The bad guys have been gaining the last three years, but at least it appears that the more moderate majority is waking up to the threat. The moderates appear to have suffered from their open alliance with the U.S., but that is changing now.

[texaspackerbacker]

it is interesting to see what is going on in Pakistan. That is the bloody front line of the battle within Islam. The bad guys have been gaining the last three years, but at least it appears that the more moderate majority is waking up to the threat. The moderates appear to have suffered from their open alliance with the U.S., but that is changing now.

A prime example of what I've been saying: the evil barbaric fundamentalists are seeking to undo the western-style freedom, prosperity, representative government, etc. I think we've got enough insiders there, though, to keep Pakistan from going down the toilet completely. That had better be the case with their having nukes and all.

You know, a very significant factor in the geopolitics of that whole part of the world is that there are over a billion Muslim-hating Hindus, complete with their own nukes--that wouldn't need too much of an excuse--or green light from us--to pretty much obliterate the Muslim world. I suppose leftists and namby pamby non-leftists too look at that concept with dread or disgust.

Oops. I guess I said something extremist ........ well, I didn't actually say I was for it, did I?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty, get on this will you. Tell him it's laughable to have universal values.


we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."

You miss the whole point. IF the were universal why would there be a need to translate.

The point is to make the values accessible. So, that others that don't have them can at least understand them.

[HowardRoark]

Ty, get on this will you. Tell him it's laughable to have universal values.


we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."

You miss the whole point. IF the were universal why would there be a need to translate.

The point is to make the values accessible. So, that others that don't have them can at least understand them.

Understand what?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty, get on this will you. Tell him it's laughable to have universal values.


we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."

You miss the whole point. IF the were universal why would there be a need to translate.

The point is to make the values accessible. So, that others that don't have them can at least understand them.

Understand what?

Reasoning.

[HowardRoark]

Ty, get on this will you. Tell him it's laughable to have universal values.


we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."

You miss the whole point. IF the were universal why would there be a need to translate.

The point is to make the values accessible. So, that others that don't have them can at least understand them.

Understand what?

Reasoning.

The "others" do have values, they just aren't your values.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty, get on this will you. Tell him it's laughable to have universal values.


we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."

You miss the whole point. IF the were universal why would there be a need to translate.

The point is to make the values accessible. So, that others that don't have them can at least understand them.

Understand what?

Reasoning.

The "others" do have values, they just aren't your values.

Who said otherwise?

[HowardRoark]

Ty, get on this will you. Tell him it's laughable to have universal values.


we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."


How do you "translate" a value?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty, get on this will you. Tell him it's laughable to have universal values.


we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."


How do you "translate" a value?

You don't. You translate the reasoning into values.

Is it that hard to read?

[HowardRoark]

Is it that hard to read?

No. It is easy to read. Hard to follow.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Is it that hard to read?

No. It is easy to read. Hard to follow.

Of course it is..not black and white. We know how you conservs struggle when it isn't simply black 'n white/good vs. evil/we are right, they are wrong.

[HowardRoark]

we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."

Teach me, oh master of the nuanced grey areas, what this means.

[packinpatland]

Talk about religion and politics.....Biden is a Packer fan....

Biden said the priests at his Catholic school taught him to be a fan of the Green Bay Packers because of their ties to northeast Wisconsin, joking they were "prepared to canonize" coach Vince Lombardi.

On Mondays, he said: "If the Green Bay Packers won, we got out early. If the Green Bay Packers lost, we got more homework. So I'm a Green Bay Packers guy from high school!"

[Tyrone Bigguns]

we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."

Teach me, oh master of the nuanced grey areas, what this means.

Your mind isn't ready now, young jedi. :wink:

I dont' see what you are missing. The context of the quote is that we are now a nation of many diff religions, etc...and that when we (gov't) makes policies they need to be able to translate their (gov) reasoning into values that all can understand.

[LL2]

Talk about religion and politics.....Biden is a Packer fan....

Biden said the priests at his Catholic school taught him to be a fan of the Green Bay Packers because of their ties to northeast Wisconsin, joking they were "prepared to canonize" coach Vince Lombardi.

On Mondays, he said: "If the Green Bay Packers won, we got out early. If the Green Bay Packers lost, we got more homework. So I'm a Green Bay Packers guy from high school!"

He's just trying to get votes in Wis., then next thing you know is that he will be saying the same thing in Chicago and he loves the Bears.

[mraynrand]

Talk about religion and politics.....Biden is a Packer fan....

Biden said the priests at his Catholic school taught him to be a fan of the Green Bay Packers because of their ties to northeast Wisconsin, joking they were "prepared to canonize" coach Vince Lombardi.

On Mondays, he said: "If the Green Bay Packers won, we got out early. If the Green Bay Packers lost, we got more homework. So I'm a Green Bay Packers guy from high school!"

He's just trying to get votes in Wis., then next thing you know is that he will be saying the same thing in Chicago and he loves the Bears.

Sounds like he just wanted less homework. Zounds! The controversy!

[ThunderDan]

it is interesting to see what is going on in Pakistan. That is the bloody front line of the battle within Islam. The bad guys have been gaining the last three years, but at least it appears that the more moderate majority is waking up to the threat. The moderates appear to have suffered from their open alliance with the U.S., but that is changing now.

A prime example of what I've been saying: the evil barbaric fundamentalists are seeking to undo the western-style freedom, prosperity, representative government, etc. I think we've got enough insiders there, though, to keep Pakistan from going down the toilet completely. That had better be the case with their having nukes and all.

You know, a very significant factor in the geopolitics of that whole part of the world is that there are over a billion Muslim-hating Hindus, complete with their own nukes--that wouldn't need too much of an excuse--or green light from us--to pretty much obliterate the Muslim world. I suppose leftists and namby pamby non-leftists too look at that concept with dread or disgust.

Oops. I guess I said something extremist ........ well, I didn't actually say I was for it, did I?

That has to be the dumbest thing I've heard in awhile. Let the Middle East nuke itself.

Let's see India's economy gone. Radiation in a lethal level into China. China's economy crippled. Possibly a large majority of the worlds oil radiactive and unusable.

How does that make our world better? Great the Muslims and Hindus are gone but the world as we know it would descend into anarchy.

Note the sarcasm.