McCain/Obama

[LL2]

Maybe we should have one thread to discuss the election until election day?

I'm surprised to see the bounce in the polls that McCain has received. I like these poll trackers.

http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard;_ylt=AsTQ58_W_XDUTC9_WjXi8aUb.3QA

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

[mraynrand]

good post

[sheepshead]

Well thought out, witty, deliberate with the just the right amount of existential prose.

[Zool]

Per usual, you cant have spaces in a URL or your post is blank. Fixored.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I preferred the original post.
:D

[sheepshead]

Barack Obama is unelectable in the general election. All you really need to know.

[LL2]

Per usual, you cant have spaces in a URL or your post is blank. Fixored.

Thanks! I was wondering what the heck happened.

[LL2]

Barack Obama is unelectable in the general election. All you really need to know.

Does this mean end of thread discussion?

[Zool]

Well he didnt say period, so its really hard to say.

[sheepshead]

Barack Obama is unelectable in the general election. All you really need to know.

Does this mean end of thread discussion?

Well of course not but you should be surprised by the polls. And there is good reason to assume that Barry's going to have to be ahead by double digits to win this thing.

[bobblehead]

as I have always said....conservatives win national elections...palin saved mccains 100 year old ass.

[LL2]

as I have always said....conservatives win national elections...palin saved mccains 100 year old ass.

Palin Power! McCain ahead in the polls!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/09/presidential.polls/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[LL2]

For all those that say Obama is a good speaker and very eloquent I just do not see it, or hear it. He's no Bill Clinton when it comes to speaking. McCain may not be the best speaker, but he's no worse than Obama. I've been watching CNN a lot lately and when I see Obama speak he seems to pause a lot and say "you know", which is the equivalent of saying "um." I think Biden and Palin are much more effective speakers.

[Scott Campbell]

as I have always said....conservatives win national elections...palin saved mccains 100 year old ass.

Palin Power! McCain ahead in the polls!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/09/presidential.polls/index.html?eref=rss_topstories


Did you read the headline?


McCain ahead in national polls; Obama up in electoral votes

[packinpatland]

The San Francisco Chronicle looks at the shrinking number of battleground states, noting John McCain's conspicuous shoutings-out to Todd Palin during his latest Virginia swing. "McCain drew his crowd's attention to Palin's husband, Todd, a four-time champion of the Iron Dog snowmobile contest in Alaska and member of the steelworkers' union, who smiled and waved at his wife's side. McCain said the 2,000-mile race 'in the dead of winter' showed that 'this guy's not afraid of anything.' The campaign believes that Todd Palin could be a huge asset with the blue-collar vote in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio."

Hockey Mom married to an Iron Dog champion. This qualifies her to be a VP.............. :roll:

[LL2]

as I have always said....conservatives win national elections...palin saved mccains 100 year old ass.

Palin Power! McCain ahead in the polls!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/09/presidential.polls/index.html?eref=rss_topstories


Did you read the headline?


McCain ahead in national polls; Obama up in electoral votes

That is going to change a lot over the next sveral weeks. This electoral college vote talley shows the two at even right now. Your right that the electoral votes are more important...just ask Al gore.

http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard;_ylt=Av8c68ejo_FtztNQDNbeeW9snwcF

[Scott Campbell]

Hockey Mom married to an Iron Dog champion. This qualifies her to be a VP.............. :roll:


While those factors likely played some role in McCains's choice, I believe it was her qualification as Governor that got her onto the short list.

[packinpatland]

Pressed about what insights into recent Russian actions she gained by living in Alaska, Palin told Gibson, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.


I visited England and looked across the Channel to France..........I now know all things French :wink:

[LL2]

Pressed about what insights into recent Russian actions she gained by living in Alaska, Palin told Gibson, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.


I visited England and looked across the Channel to France..........I now know all things French :wink:

I bet that is what makes you a sophisticated rat.

[packinpatland]

Pressed about what insights into recent Russian actions she gained by living in Alaska, Palin told Gibson, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.


I visited England and looked across the Channel to France..........I now know all things French :wink:

I bet that is what makes you a sophisticated rat.

Possibly..... :lol:

You have to admit, Palin's answer was almost childish.

[LL2]

Pressed about what insights into recent Russian actions she gained by living in Alaska, Palin told Gibson, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.


I visited England and looked across the Channel to France..........I now know all things French :wink:

I bet that is what makes you a sophisticated rat.

Possibly..... :lol:

You have to admit, Palin's answer was almost childish.

No, I don't think her answer was childish. You have to watch the entire interview and not take one quote. When you do that a person can be taken out of context. Although, that is what the media nd politcians do all the time.

I would have to think that being the governor of a state that is close to a potentially hostile nation would give her a perspective that someone who just served in the Senate for 150 days (and did nothing) before running for president would have. I find it funny that people are trying to probe at her international experience, and how it may or may not qualify her for the VP position, when Obama is running to be The Man and he had no international experience when he decided to run. If Obama did, what was it, and do not say he took a trip overseas. I have lived in Illinois for the past 7 years and never saw Obama do squat. I do think the media is doing McCain a huge favor right now. The more they focus on Palin, and compare her to Obama, the more it helps McCain. Once McCain and Palin are in office Palin will get all the international experience in the world and that will make her a formidable opponent to anyone should she decide to run for president.

[mraynrand]

I'd say the question and answer are both pointless. Her experience as governor of Alaska gives her virtually no insight on foreign affairs. Charlie knows it, she knows it and so does everyone else. But she can't just say "Charlie, I have no experience," as then that would run on an endless loop til the election. Obama has virtually no experience either, and Biden has experience presiding over committees and so forth (as does McCain), but Biden has the extra bonus of being wrong about just about everything - (partition Iraq, Israel should give up the strategic Golan Heights, etc.). McCain has been right about a lot of important foreign policy positions recently and gets credit for that. Plain looks like and is a 'newbie' - she's just going to have to appeal on policy positions - like supporting NATO - and will have to know her stuff. If she doesn't, she'll be destroyed politically.

[packinpatland]

"If she doesn't, she'll be destroyed politically."

And IF McCain were to be elected and keeled over on Day 2......our credibility around the globe would be destroyed............or at best, severely damaged.

[retailguy]

Pressed about what insights into recent Russian actions she gained by living in Alaska, Palin told Gibson, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.


I visited England and looked across the Channel to France..........I now know all things French :wink:

I really don't understand the hatred and the fingerpointing. She's running for VP, not President.

Seriously, and this is for PIP ONLY, I'd really like to hear the perspective straight from a womans mouth that is not my wife. My wife is lukewarm to the selection, but not because she's a democrat.

I'd like to hear a female democrat view of why Obama is qualified to be President, but Palin is unqualified to be vice president. I promise not to bash you for sticking your neck out. In fact, if you don't want me to respond at all, tell me and I won't. further, if you're worried about all these other partisan hacks chiming in, send me a PM. I'd really like to know. I just don't understand.

[mraynrand]

"If she doesn't, she'll be destroyed politically."

And IF McCain were to be elected and keeled over on Day 2......our credibility around the globe would be destroyed............or at best, severely damaged.

I thought the left already thought our credibility around the globe is destroyed. How much worse can it get, according to the left? More destroyed?

Palin has to know her stuff. Being destroyed politically means that if she doesn't know her stuff, she will not get elected.

[mraynrand]

further, if you're worried about all these other partisan hacks chiming in, send me a PM.

I resemble that remark! :smack:

[SkinBasket]

And IF McCain were to be elected and keeled over on Day 2......our credibility around the globe would be destroyed............or at best, severely damaged.

What? Why? Because she's a woman? How is her becoming president through the somewhat unlikely event that McCain kicks the bucket any different in regards to international experience than Obama becoming president through an election? I mean other than his European celebrity status. And if that's what passes as international credibility, then I don't think we should be all that concerned with it.

[Freak Out]

Palin is not ready to be VP let alone President of this country. That's what I got out of the interview. Her ignorance and evasiveness was somewhat alarming considering that she has been coached for the last week on the things she was going to be grilled on. I don't have a big problem with Mac being the Pres for the most part but the choice of Palin could end up being his undoing. But we'll see....the powers that be have sold Americans a pig with lipstick before. :lol:

[texaspackerbacker]

What interview were you watching?

She fielded questions from a hostile left wing member of the mainstream media--deliberately trying to trap her into some kind of a gaff, and she gave as good as she got.

She answered every question competently--often in way the libs just can't stand. When the shithead from ABC got repetitious with his questions, she simply repeated her answers, intentionally (I think) annoying the ABC fool and leftists in general.

How, Freakout, could you possibly see your #1 guy--who doesn't have a shred of executive or foreign policy experience, who has basically never has done anything in his life to remotely qualify him to be president, and who can't spew a coherent sentence without a teleprompter--as MORE fit to be president than Sarah Palin?

And that's not even talking about the fact that she is firmly in tune with the views, values, morality, and heritage of Americans, while he is sadly and sickly--and probably intentionally--in direct conflict with American views, values, morality, and heritage.

[Freak Out]

What interview were you watching?

She fielded questions from a hostile left wing member of the mainstream media--deliberately trying to trap her into some kind of a gaff, and she gave as good as she got.

She answered every question competently--often in way the libs just can't stand. When the shithead from ABC got repetitious with his questions, she simply repeated her answers, intentionally (I think) annoying the ABC fool and leftists in general.

How, Freakout, could you possibly see your #1 guy--who doesn't have a shred of executive or foreign policy experience, who has basically never has done anything in his life to remotely qualify him to be president, and who can't spew a coherent sentence without a teleprompter--as MORE fit to be president than Sarah Palin?

Who ever said Hussein was my guy?

And that's not even talking about the fact that she is firmly in tune with the views, values, morality, and heritage of Americans, while he is sadly and sickly--and probably intentionally--in direct conflict with American views, values, morality, and heritage.

Who said Hussein was my guy? Anyway.....my vote will not matter because Alaska will without a doubt go Republican.

[texaspackerbacker]

What interview were you watching?

She fielded questions from a hostile left wing member of the mainstream media--deliberately trying to trap her into some kind of a gaff, and she gave as good as she got.

She answered every question competently--often in way the libs just can't stand. When the shithead from ABC got repetitious with his questions, she simply repeated her answers, intentionally (I think) annoying the ABC fool and leftists in general.

How, Freakout, could you possibly see your #1 guy--who doesn't have a shred of executive or foreign policy experience, who has basically never has done anything in his life to remotely qualify him to be president, and who can't spew a coherent sentence without a teleprompter--as MORE fit to be president than Sarah Palin?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who ever said Hussein was my guy? I think you need to fix your format, Freakout. I wouldn't want anubody to mix up where mine ends and yours begins.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that's not even talking about the fact that she is firmly in tune with the views, values, morality, and heritage of Americans, while he is sadly and sickly--and probably intentionally--in direct conflict with American views, values, morality, and heritage.

[Freak Out]

What interview were you watching?

She fielded questions from a hostile left wing member of the mainstream media--deliberately trying to trap her into some kind of a gaff, and she gave as good as she got.

She answered every question competently--often in way the libs just can't stand. When the shithead from ABC got repetitious with his questions, she simply repeated her answers, intentionally (I think) annoying the ABC fool and leftists in general.

How, Freakout, could you possibly see your #1 guy--who doesn't have a shred of executive or foreign policy experience, who has basically never has done anything in his life to remotely qualify him to be president, and who can't spew a coherent sentence without a teleprompter--as MORE fit to be president than Sarah Palin?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who ever said Hussein was my guy? I think you need to fix your format, Freakout. I wouldn't want anubody to mix up where mine ends and yours begins.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that's not even talking about the fact that she is firmly in tune with the views, values, morality, and heritage of Americans, while he is sadly and sickly--and probably intentionally--in direct conflict with American views, values, morality, and heritage.

:lol: Sorry Texas...I was working on a few documents at the time and messed something up.

[texaspackerbacker]

So are you saying you're NOT for Obama? Good decision if that's the case, but then who are you for?

[bobblehead]

The San Francisco Chronicle looks at the shrinking number of battleground states, noting John McCain's conspicuous shoutings-out to Todd Palin during his latest Virginia swing. "McCain drew his crowd's attention to Palin's husband, Todd, a four-time champion of the Iron Dog snowmobile contest in Alaska and member of the steelworkers' union, who smiled and waved at his wife's side. McCain said the 2,000-mile race 'in the dead of winter' showed that 'this guy's not afraid of anything.' The campaign believes that Todd Palin could be a huge asset with the blue-collar vote in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio."

Hockey Mom married to an Iron Dog champion. This qualifies her to be a VP.............. :roll:

yes, lets focus on that, not the actual stance on issues.

[bobblehead]

Pressed about what insights into recent Russian actions she gained by living in Alaska, Palin told Gibson, "They're our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.


I visited England and looked across the Channel to France..........I now know all things French :wink:

Interesting....care to post the rest of the quote??

[bobblehead]

So are you saying you're NOT for Obama? Good decision if that's the case, but then who are you for?

bob barr...as we all should be

[Scott Campbell]

I visited England and looked across the Channel to France..........I now know all things French :wink:


I think you're full of crepe.

:lol:

[retailguy]

further, if you're worried about all these other partisan hacks chiming in, send me a PM.

I resemble that remark! :smack:

So do I... and I'm proud of it, too. :P

[swede]

The San Francisco Chronicle...:roll:

Fixed.

[mraynrand]

So are you saying you're NOT for Obama? Good decision if that's the case, but then who are you for?

bob barr...as we all should be

Barack Obama thanks you for your support

[packinpatland]

I visited England and looked across the Channel to France..........I now know all things French :wink:


I think you're full of crepe.

:lol:


That was good :lol: :lol:

[texaspackerbacker]

So are you saying you're NOT for Obama? Good decision if that's the case, but then who are you for?

bob barr...as we all should be

Barack Obama thanks you for your support

Exactly.

The question was aimed at Freakout, though--the guy who appeared to be a Palin detractor and also implied that he opposes Obama. Somehow, I don't see Freakout as a Barr-ophile.

[texaspackerbacker]

I visited England and looked across the Channel to France..........I now know all things French :wink:


I think you're full of crepe.

:lol:


That was good :lol: :lol:

How'd that Chunnel fire thing that was in the news this morning turn out?

Not terrorist related on the day after 9/11, I hope.

[Freak Out]

So are you saying you're NOT for Obama? Good decision if that's the case, but then who are you for?

bob barr...as we all should be

Barack Obama thanks you for your support

Exactly.

The question was aimed at Freakout, though--the guy who appeared to be a Palin detractor and also implied that he opposes Obama. Somehow, I don't see Freakout as a Barr-ophile.

Barr makes some good arguments and I agree with him on some issues but I could never vote for him. Perhaps a mutated version of Barr/Nader/Paul, Curtis LeMay and Dweezil Zappa. :lol:

[texaspackerbacker]

If Obama wins by one vote, you get the blame, Freakout. If he wins by two votes, you and Bobblehead are the culprits.

But don't worry. He ain't even gonna come close.

[Freak Out]

If Obama wins by one vote, you get the blame, Freakout. If he wins by two votes, you and Bobblehead are the culprits.

But don't worry. He ain't even gonna come close.

Sorry Texas...Mac/Palin win Alaska. Period. My vote does not count unless I vote for them. It might have been closer than in past elections but once Palin was chosen it was all over for Obama in AK. :lol:

Mac gets our three electoral votes.

[Joemailman]

So are you saying you're NOT for Obama? Good decision if that's the case, but then who are you for?

bob barr...as we all should be

Barack Obama thanks you for your support

I don't think voting for Barr is supporting Obama. It's voting for what you think a President should be. If Republicans were for limited government as much they say they are, Barr wouldn't be running as a Libertarian. In 2000, a lot of Democrats tried to blame Nader for Gore's defeat in Florida. That was nonsense. Gore lost to a mediocre opponent because he ran a poor campaign, and because huge numbers of Democrats didn't bother to vote at all. Far more than the number of Democrats that voted for Nader. Same goes for McCain in 2008. If McCain loses, it will be because of McCain, not Barr.

[BallHawk]

Pat Buchanan > Ralph Nader in terms of bigger pain-in-the-ass in Florida.

Butterfly ballots. :roll:

[Freak Out]

I will admit that I'm tempted to vote Obama just on court appointments alone.

[LL2]

I will admit that I'm tempted to vote Obama just on court appointments alone.

Are people afraid of Roe v Wade being overturned if McCain / Palin are elected? I do not see that happening despite their position. We do need more conservative judges on the supreme court though.

[texaspackerbacker]

I will admit that I'm tempted to vote Obama just on court appointments alone.

Could you go into some detail as to which of the sick America-harming undemocratic (note the little "d") rulings by liberal judges that you are such a big fan of?

And what is it you have against "conservative" judges--who merely would interpret the Constitution instead of promoting judicial activism as a way of ramming leftist rottenness in the back door--AGAINST the will of the people?

Judicial appointments are right up there near the top of the plethora of reasons to keep Obama out of the White House.

[bobblehead]

So are you saying you're NOT for Obama? Good decision if that's the case, but then who are you for?

bob barr...as we all should be

Barack Obama thanks you for your support

sorry, but you're not going to blackmail me into voting for a tool like mccain just cuz the alternative is a bigger tool (not by much). A mccain presidency likely will harm the republican brand more than an obama presidency will hurt the country.

[mraynrand]

So are you saying you're NOT for Obama? Good decision if that's the case, but then who are you for?

bob barr...as we all should be

Barack Obama thanks you for your support

sorry, but you're not going to blackmail me into voting for a tool like mccain just cuz the alternative is a bigger tool (not by much). A mccain presidency likely will harm the republican brand more than an obama presidency will hurt the country.

It's not a blackmail. It's the truth. And you're welcome to think what you want about the Republican brand. I disagree with you, but if you and a lot of others like you vote for Bob Barr, we'll have a much better chance of finding out if you're right.

[texaspackerbacker]

So are you saying you're NOT for Obama? Good decision if that's the case, but then who are you for?

bob barr...as we all should be

Barack Obama thanks you for your support

sorry, but you're not going to blackmail me into voting for a tool like mccain just cuz the alternative is a bigger tool (not by much). A mccain presidency likely will harm the republican brand more than an obama presidency will hurt the country.

First of all, whatever you may have against McCain pales to total insignificance (BTW, what DO you have against McCain?) compared to the horrendous prospect of an Obama presidency in terms of issue #1, preventing terrorism in America and issue #2, ruining the economy by raising taxes. McCain would SEEM to be YOUR kind of conservative, Bobblehead--one who is very concerned about the spending half of "tax and spend".

As for the Republican Party, Sarah Palin goes a long way toward mitigating that concern. McCain was far from my first choice too. Even though he has talked a very good game since wrapping up the nomination, and even before, I would be a little bit suspicious of his conservatism too. However, Palin, even if she fades from the scene like most VPs, she will clearly be the frontrunnier in 8 years--maybe 4 if McCain decides not to run again. Hell, it could be sooner if McCain kicks off. The Party and its conservative dominance will thus, be alive and well. Or isn't Palin YOUR kind of conservative.

If you want to waste your vote on Bob Barr, fine. Don't let me stop you, but I hope you're smart enough to realize the EXTREME difference between Obama and McCain/Palin.

[LL2]

I can understand why McCain wants Palin to campaign with him as she draws large numbers. It's reported that her most recent speech, and 1st alone back in the lower 48, drew around 10,000 people. McCain alone can't do that, but aside from that the McCain camp needs to send her out alone more and they need to make her more available to the public talking with people and reporters. People want to hear her, and I think it will eventually cost McCain if they keep her access extremely limited. Maybe they fear it will look like the Palin/McCain ticket if they let her loose, instead of the other way around.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think they are just bringing her along gradually--trying to extend the Palin boom rather than having people get burned out with her.

Also, you have the idea that they mocked Obama for the celebrity thing, so they need to tread lightly in doing the same with her.

Also, you have the idea that not far below the surface, there are issues of disagreement with McCain--not just ANWAR. McCain is at best a recent convert to being a staunch conservative. More likely, he isn't quite the true believer that she is.

[LL2]

A good read in the WSJ.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122126282034130461.html?mod=hps_us_at_glance_opi nion
If You Like Michigan's Economy,
You'll Love Obama's
By PHIL GRAMM and MIKE SOLON
September 13, 2008; Page A13

Despite the federal government's growing economic dominance, individual states still exercise substantial freedom in pursuing their own economic fortune -- or misfortune. As a result, the states provide a laboratory for testing various policies.

In this election year, the experience of the states gives us some ability to look at the economic policies of the two presidential candidates in action. If a program is not playing in Peoria, it probably won't work elsewhere. Americans have voted with their feet by moving to states with greater opportunities, but federal adoption of failed state programs would take away our ability to walk away from bad government.

Growth in jobs, income and population are proof that a state is prospering. But figuring out why one state does well while another struggles requires in-depth analysis. In an effort to explain differences in performance, think tanks have generated state-based economic freedom indices modeled on the World Economic Freedom Index published by The Wall Street Journal and the Heritage Foundation.

A TAX TO GRIND


Personal-income growth suffers when states adopt a tax-and-spend approach to fiscal policy. (Read more1.)The Competitiveness Index created by the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) identifies "16 policy variables that have a proven impact on the migration of capital -- both investment capital and human capital -- into and out of states." Its analysis shows that "generally speaking, states that spend less, especially on income transfer programs, and states that tax less, particularly on productive activities such as working or investing, experience higher growth rates than states that tax and spend more."

Ranking states by domestic migration, per-capita income growth and employment growth, ALEC found that from 1996 through 2006, Texas, Florida and Arizona were the three most successful states. Illinois, Ohio and Michigan were the three least successful.

The rewards for success were huge. Texas gained 1.7 million net new jobs, Florida gained 1.4 million and Arizona gained 600,000. While the U.S. average job growth percentage was 9.9%, Texas, Florida and Arizona had job growth of 18.5%, 21.4% and 28.9%, respectively.

Remarkably, a third of all the jobs in the U.S. in the last 10 years were created in these three states. While the population of the three highest-performing states grew twice as fast as the national average, per-capita real income still grew by $6,563 or 21.4% in Texas, Florida and Arizona. That's a $26,252 increase for a typical family of four.

By comparison, Illinois gained only 122,000 jobs, Ohio lost 62,900 and Michigan lost 318,000. Population growth in Michigan, Ohio and Illinois was only 4.2%, a third the national average, and real income per capita rose by only $3,466, just 58% of the national average. Workers in the three least successful states had to contend with a quarter-million fewer jobs rather than taking their pick of the 3.7 million new jobs that were available in the three fastest-growing states.

In Michigan, the average family of four had to make ends meet without an extra $8,672 had their state matched the real income growth of the three most successful states. Families in Michigan, Ohio and Illinois struggled not because they didn't work hard enough, long enough or smart enough. They struggled because too many of their elected leaders represented special interests rather than their interests.

What explains this relative performance over the last 10 years? The simple answer is that governance, taxes and regulatory policy matter. The playing field among the states was not flat. Business conditions were better in the successful states than in the lagging ones. Capital and labor gravitated to where the burdens were smaller and the opportunities greater.

It costs state taxpayers far less to succeed than to fail. In the three most successful states, state spending averaged $5,519 per capita. In the three least successful states, state spending averaged $6,484 per capita. Per capita taxes were $7,063 versus $8,342.

There also appears to be a clear difference between union interests and the worker interests. Texas, Florida and Arizona are right-to-work states, while Michigan, Ohio and Illinois are not. Michigan, Ohio and Illinois impose significantly higher minimum wages than Texas, Florida and Arizona. Yet with all the proclaimed benefits of unionism and higher minimum wages, Texas, Florida and Arizona workers saw their real income grow more than twice as fast as workers in Michigan, Ohio and Illinois.

Incredibly, the business climate in Michigan is now so unfavorable that it has overwhelmed the considerable comparative advantage in auto production that Michigan spent a century building up. No one should let Michigan politicians blame their problems solely on the decline of the U.S. auto industry. Yes, Michigan lost 83,000 auto manufacturing jobs during the past decade and a half, but more than 91,000 new auto manufacturing jobs sprung up in Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia and Texas.

So what do the state laboratories tell us about the potential success of the economic programs presented by Barack Obama and John McCain?

Mr. McCain will lower taxes. Mr. Obama will raise them, especially on small businesses. To understand why, you need to know something about the "infamous" top 1% of income tax filers: In order to avoid high corporate tax rates and the double taxation of dividends, small business owners have increasingly filed as individuals rather than corporations. When Democrats talk about soaking the rich, it isn't the Rockefellers they're talking about; it's the companies where most Americans work. Three out of four individual income tax filers in the top 1% are, in fact, small businesses.

In the name of taxing the rich, Mr. Obama would raise the marginal tax rates to over 50% on millions of small businesses that provide 75% of all new jobs in America. Investors and corporations will also pay higher taxes under the Obama program, but, as the Michigan-Ohio-Illinois experience painfully demonstrates, workers ultimately pay for higher taxes in lower wages and fewer jobs.

Mr. Obama would spend all the savings from walking out of Iraq to expand the government. Mr. McCain would reserve all the savings from our success in Iraq to shrink the deficit, as part of a credible and internally consistent program to balance the budget by the end of his first term. Mr. Obama's program offers no hope, or even a promise, of ever achieving a balanced budget.

Mr. Obama would stimulate the economy by increasing federal spending. Mr. McCain would stimulate the economy by cutting the corporate tax rate. Mr. Obama would expand unionism by denying workers the right to a secret ballot on the decision to form a union, and would dramatically increase the minimum wage. Mr. Obama would also expand the role of government in the economy, and stop reforms in areas like tort abuse.

The states have already tested the McCain and Obama programs, and the results are clear. We now face a national choice to determine if everything that has failed the families of Michigan, Ohio and Illinois will be imposed on a grander scale across the nation. In an appropriate twist of fate, Michigan and Ohio, the two states that have suffered the most from the policies that Mr. Obama proposes, have it within their power not only to reverse their own misfortunes but to spare the nation from a similar fate.

[packinpatland]

This one's better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?hp=&pagewanted=all

[Tyrone Bigguns]

LL2,

Wonder why they stopped at 06. Couldn't be that those states were propelled by housing..and all those bad loans. :oops:

[SkinBasket]

This one's better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?hp=&pagewanted=all


Ah, the Times...

[LL2]

This one's better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?hp=&pagewanted=all

The liberal left just trying to dig up dirt whereever they can...if you look for it on anyone you will find it.

Did you know Biden used to plagerize speeches years ago? Did you know Hilary and her husband were involved in shady land deals when Bill was a governor? :roll:

[texaspackerbacker]

This one's better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?hp=&pagewanted=all

The liberal left just trying to dig up dirt whereever they can...if you look for it on anyone you will find it.

Did you know Biden used to plagerize speeches years ago? Did you know Hilary and her husband were involved in shady land deals when Bill was a governor? :roll:

Why is it you never have to look very hard when it's the Dems you're talking about?

And why is it the media glosses it over and defends them anyway when it's the Dems you're talking about?

Why is it the careers of Biden, Clinton, Barney Frank, Harry Reid, and a whole host of other Dems continued unscathed, while the fag Congressman from Florida, George Allen, Trent Lott, Newt Gingrich, the governor of Illinois who ran for senate against Obama, etc. etc. etc. had their careers ruined for the same or actually much less?

[Freak Out]

This one's better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?hp=&pagewanted=all

The liberal left just trying to dig up dirt whereever they can...if you look for it on anyone you will find it.

Did you know Biden used to plagerize speeches years ago? Did you know Hilary and her husband were involved in shady land deals when Bill was a governor? :roll:

Dirt? At least not in the classic sense. That's just how she does business. Favoritism ahead of professionalism? We should be used to that considering who we as a nation have put in power over the last few years.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

This one's better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?hp=&pagewanted=all


Ah, the Times...

Ah, Skin with another ad hominem attack. What a surprise.

[SkinBasket]

Ah, Skin with another ad hominem attack. What a surprise.

http://www.fuelairspark.com/Base/Downloads/Software/XFI/Help/images/fig13-2.gif
The graph clearly shows the NYT is biased.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ah, Skin with another ad hominem attack. What a surprise.

http://www.fuelairspark.com/Base/Downloads/Software/XFI/Help/images/fig13-2.gif
The graph clearly shows the NYT is biased.

Skin with another ad hominem attack.

[SkinBasket]

Ah, Skin with another ad hominem attack. What a surprise.

http://www.fuelairspark.com/Base/Downloads/Software/XFI/Help/images/fig13-2.gif
The graph clearly shows the NYT is biased.

Skin with another ad hominem attack.

Find some numbers that prove mine wrong then.

[packinpatland]

Forget the numbers, graphs.......show me where the NYT was dead wrong with their facts.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ah, Skin with another ad hominem attack. What a surprise.

http://www.fuelairspark.com/Base/Downloads/Software/XFI/Help/images/fig13-2.gif
The graph clearly shows the NYT is biased.

Skin with another ad hominem attack.

Find some numbers that prove mine wrong then.

Am i disputing your graph?

We await your research on voting by education/smarts, real critique of the numbers i posted by ANY source, and any critique of the NYT story that disputes the acccuracy of the work.

[Scott Campbell]

Yeah, yeah. Whatever you say Tyrone. :bs:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Yeah, yeah. Whatever you say Tyrone. :bs:

Getting testy scott..must be fearful of obama win. :lol:

[Freak Out]

Ah, Skin with another ad hominem attack. What a surprise.

http://www.fuelairspark.com/Base/Downloads/Software/XFI/Help/images/fig13-2.gif
The graph clearly shows the NYT is biased.

I thought this was funny.

[texaspackerbacker]

It's a shame how some of these decent issue and candidate oriented threads degenerate like this.

I think it's the fault of the lame leftists--who are so grossly WRONGHEADED and OUT OF TUNE with America and good normal Americans on the issues that all they can do is DIVERT and RUN AND HIDE.

You see the same thing on the national scene too. The America-hating ...... rectums ........ just don't dare confront McCain/Palin on the issues, so they try to blur things and divert toward character assassination and irrelevancy.

The Obama campaign and their leftist mainstream media allies are testicularly challenged, just like our lame forum leftists.

[packinpatland]

Forget the numbers, graphs.......show me where the NYT was dead wrong with their facts.

[SkinBasket]

Am i disputing your graph?

We await your research on voting by education/smarts, real critique of the numbers i posted by ANY source, and any critique of the NYT story that disputes the acccuracy of the work.

Tyrone, no one knows what the fuck you're disputing anymore because you dispute everything on the forum without ever saying anything.

I gave you your fucking critique on your numbers. Read it again if you've forgotten. You made excuses about google failing you instead of addressing the fact that your data doesn't mean shit to the argument at hand.

Forgive me if I don't consider the NYT a credible source of unbiased news. I hardly think I'm alone. And neither is Palin in doing what every politician does when they take office. They fill jobs with those who helped them get there and those who share their views. Of course it's only news to the Times when a republican in need of smearing is the subject.

I certainly didn't read anything that suggested Alaska fell into a state of unrecoverable turmoil as a result of her appointments. Or that there were even any complaints about the jobs those people she appointed were doing. Other than of course *GASP* she knew them growing up!!! In fact, the 80% approval rating would seem to indicate that those who were affected most by these decisions are happy with them, even if the New York Times isn't.

The rest of the article is the same recycled non-stories that every anti-Palin publication has been trying to push since she took the stage at the convention and scared the shit out of Obama's flock.

[Scott Campbell]

Am i disputing your graph?

We await your research on voting by education/smarts, real critique of the numbers i posted by ANY source, and any critique of the NYT story that disputes the acccuracy of the work.

Tyrone, no one knows what the fuck you're disputing anymore because you dispute everything on the forum without ever saying anything.



He's obviously got some personal issues.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Am i disputing your graph?

We await your research on voting by education/smarts, real critique of the numbers i posted by ANY source, and any critique of the NYT story that disputes the acccuracy of the work.

Tyrone, no one knows what the fuck you're disputing anymore because you dispute everything on the forum without ever saying anything.

I gave you your fucking critique on your numbers. Read it again if you've forgotten. You made excuses about google failing you instead of addressing the fact that your data doesn't mean shit to the argument at hand.

Forgive me if I don't consider the NYT a credible source of unbiased news. I hardly think I'm alone. And neither is Palin in doing what every politician does when they take office. They fill jobs with those who helped them get there and those who share their views. Of course it's only news to the Times when a republican in need of smearing is the subject.

I certainly didn't read anything that suggested Alaska fell into a state of unrecoverable turmoil as a result of her appointments. Or that there were even any complaints about the jobs those people she appointed were doing. Other than of course *GASP* she knew them growing up!!! In fact, the 80% approval rating would seem to indicate that those who were affected most by these decisions are happy with them, even if the New York Times isn't.

The rest of the article is the same recycled non-stories that every anti-Palin publication has been trying to push since she took the stage at the convention and scared the shit out of Obama's flock.

This is more bs. I simply posted figures that showed dems were not less educated.

I didn't give google as an exuse..that is you. I gave you data..you suggesed that i posted only what was supportive...to which, if YOU can recall I stated was the only data i found. It wasn't pro or con...it was only what was found.

Nor did i post it with the express intent of saying who was better educated and therefore smarter. I never said anything to that at all. Infact, i pointed out that Partial's statement was elilist.

You choose to invalidate it on YOUR criteria. I simply asked you to find a source that agreed with your viewpoint..that the polling data wasnt' valid.

Bias: Have you read anything from me saying the NYT isn't biased. Everyone is biased..including yourself and the conservative sources that conservs use.

Your construct that they are smearing..well, i read it and dont' see it. I see a listing of the facts. Just as you don't see Fox smearing when i and others do.

However, simply attacking the story because it is from the NYT is laughable. You would ride me all day long if i simply did that to your sources.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Am i disputing your graph?

We await your research on voting by education/smarts, real critique of the numbers i posted by ANY source, and any critique of the NYT story that disputes the acccuracy of the work.

Tyrone, no one knows what the fuck you're disputing anymore because you dispute everything on the forum without ever saying anything.



He's obviously got some personal issues.

Pot calling kettle black.

[bobblehead]

First of all, whatever you may have against McCain pales to total insignificance (BTW, what DO you have against McCain?) compared to the horrendous prospect of an Obama presidency in terms of issue #1, preventing terrorism in America and issue #2, ruining the economy by raising taxes. McCain would SEEM to be YOUR kind of conservative, Bobblehead--one who is very concerned about the spending half of "tax and spend".

As for the Republican Party, Sarah Palin goes a long way toward mitigating that concern. McCain was far from my first choice too. Even though he has talked a very good game since wrapping up the nomination, and even before, I would be a little bit suspicious of his conservatism too. However, Palin, even if she fades from the scene like most VPs, she will clearly be the frontrunnier in 8 years--maybe 4 if McCain decides not to run again. Hell, it could be sooner if McCain kicks off. The Party and its conservative dominance will thus, be alive and well. Or isn't Palin YOUR kind of conservative.

If you want to waste your vote on Bob Barr, fine. Don't let me stop you, but I hope you're smart enough to realize the EXTREME difference between Obama and McCain/Palin.

Mccain is full of shit is what I have against him. NOW he is all for lower capital gains taxes, but when bush pushed them thru he voted against the cut calling it "a tax cut for the wealthiest americans".

He talks a good game about fiscal responsibility and wants to reign in about 18 billion in earmarks, but he voted for a new social program in medicare D. He also didn't even get involved with SS reform.

He is totally on board with cap and trade which basically will protect large existing companies while making start up costs of competitors unattainable.

He cosponsored campaign finance laws that crush free speech and protect incumbants.

He is all for giving citizenship to people who are here illegally and straining our overstrained social programs. People who broke the law as their first act on american soil.

As for sarah palin....talk to me about here when mccain actually DOES die, she would be a fine president. Yes, there is a difference between obama and mccain, but when we had guys running like tancredo, thompson, romney, even rudy....we put mr. across the aisle on the ticket. Sorry, I don't think he would be even an average president. Remember "I don't know much about economics". I'm not waiting 8 years for palin when I can get gingrich or jindall in 4.

edit: PS....remember our discussion 3 months ago about the economy being fine?? Unemployment is up to 5.8% and last night we had the biggest bankruptcy in US history. Banks are failing and credit markets are a fucking mess. GDP is pretty much stagnant....who coulda seen this coming?? Yea, GW did some good things, but some real shit happened while we were fighting terrorism. I'd like a president who might actually be able to do both.

[SkinBasket]

You choose to invalidate it on YOUR criteria.

And this is what it always comes down to for you. No one can defeat you in your head.

As far as the article goes, a reasonable person need only look at the source and the title to understand what it's intentions are. The content of the article is weak, and to be honest, reads a lot like one of your arguments: A whole lot of talk without a point - well not a point that you would be forced to defend in any meaningful way. Just a title meant to enrage those who are already looking to be enraged. More intellectually dishonest crap thrown at the wall in the hope that the smell will linger.

[hoosier]

remember our discussion 3 months ago about the economy being fine?? Unemployment is up to 5.8% and last night we had the biggest bankruptcy in US history. Banks are failing and credit markets are a fucking mess. GDP is pretty much stagnant....who coulda seen this coming?? Yea, GW did some good things, but some real shit happened while we were fighting terrorism. I'd like a president who might actually be able to do both.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igAmVs0cvY8
McCain on the record as insisting that the US economy is "still strong." I don't know if yesterday is necessarily indicative of a deepening of our economic crisis (except for those who are directly affected by what happened with Lehman), nor does it seem likely that the next President will have full control over when and how the economy begins to recover. That said, McCain can't help but come across as out of touch with reality here. He sounds a lot like Tex, as a matter of fact.

[bobblehead]

remember our discussion 3 months ago about the economy being fine?? Unemployment is up to 5.8% and last night we had the biggest bankruptcy in US history. Banks are failing and credit markets are a fucking mess. GDP is pretty much stagnant....who coulda seen this coming?? Yea, GW did some good things, but some real shit happened while we were fighting terrorism. I'd like a president who might actually be able to do both.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igAmVs0cvY8
McCain on the record as insisting that the US economy is "still strong." I don't know if yesterday is necessarily indicative of a deepening of our economic crisis (except for those who are directly affected by what happened with Lehman), nor does it seem likely that the next President will have full control over when and how the economy begins to recover. That said, McCain can't help but come across as out of touch with reality here. He sounds a lot like Tex, as a matter of fact.

I'm not sure on the date of that youtube video, but it barely matters. As of 4 months ago the economy was "strong" by numbers, but again, anyone who couldn't see this mess coming either had an agenda or is an economics novice.

I'm not truly on your side here though (hoosier) as I think around election time the left will convince us that unemployment is 50% if they think it will help them win (as mccain and the right deny the downturn we are in now).

The economic indicators were slipping for a year now, and with the looming credit market crisis (there is no "housing" crisis) a monumental slowdown was inevitable. Now if gov't is smart (yea, dream on) we are ready for such things and have the opportunity to spend thru slowdowns, but if you ran up a 200 billion dollar deficit (due to long standing fixed costs of social programs mostly) what you end up with is a 450 billion dollar deficit when times slow down, now the credit markets are fucked, the gov't is having trouble raising capital to spend through it without debasing the dollar and we limp into '09.

As I've always said, I blame the left more than the right, but I hold the right accountable too. they got in power and started their own agenda (of staying in power) without thought to setting us back on the right track. Once Gingrich got destroyed by the press and stepped down all form of fiscal sanity at the federal level was gone.

[HowardRoark]

Obama came out today and made fun of "the ownership society" we have here. Why doesn't he just come out of the closet and tells us what he really is.

[packinpatland]

McCain condemns CEO buyouts, yet..............

Republican ticket mates John McCain and Sarah Palin Monday blasted corporate executives who leave their company with a "golden parachute" and pledged to "stop multimillion dollar payouts" to CEOs, seeming to forget their own top economic adviser Carly Fiorina walked away with $45 million, including a $21.4 million severance package when she was dismissed by Hewlett Packard in 2005.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/mccain-economic.html

:shock:

[SkinBasket]

:shock:

Obama's camp is really set on attacking the republican campaign people. I may be wrong, but I didn't think these people typically took important posts in the government after their man is elected.

[Freak Out]

:shock:

Obama's camp is really set on attacking the republican campaign people. I may be wrong, but I didn't think these people typically took important posts in the government after their man is elected.

Many of the people high up in Macs campaign worked for Bush/Cheney during the campaigns and admins of both for the last eight years....will that trend continue? We might find out.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You choose to invalidate it on YOUR criteria.

And this is what it always comes down to for you. No one can defeat you in your head.

As far as the article goes, a reasonable person need only look at the source and the title to understand what it's intentions are. The content of the article is weak, and to be honest, reads a lot like one of your arguments: A whole lot of talk without a point - well not a point that you would be forced to defend in any meaningful way. Just a title meant to enrage those who are already looking to be enraged. More intellectually dishonest crap thrown at the wall in the hope that the smell will linger.

Defeat me? Dude, i'm not locked into any position. I didn't start off with a position that repubs are smarter or dumber than dems..nor vice versa.

I merely posted data that clearly should that neither said was dumb. I never said, "hah..gotcha partial." The only point of the post was to illuminate how foolish his statement was.

I don't come here saying if you vote repub you are stupid. Find anything like that...go for it. I await that like i await any valid source you can present on the polling data, different polling data, or legit criticism of the NYT story. Ty waits...and waits..and waits.

However, questioning polling data because YOU think it isn't right..doesn't make it so. I dont' sit here and deny or question the polling data that shows Mccain ahead...did i? Nope. I accept that things like the rasmussen have been pretty darn accurate. I don't say they are wrong or 100 percent right...but, i dont' pontificate like you do. Making speculation about who is at home when they call, etc. If the polls showed Obama ahead..and now Mccain...i certainly can't do that...if it worked for one, it works for the other.

Article: That is your viewpoint. Like I said, everyone has a bias. I watched the press meet palin's religious leader in alaska. I thought it was fairly benign. I watched Glenn Beck lead into the story about how the press "demanded" answers.

Everyone frames things.

I find your objections kinda funny. I dont' see you holding the same standard about the press on the right towards obama. But, then again, i don't expect you or the right wing to act any differently. That is why i find your hypocrisy so stunning.

[mraynrand]

I find your objections kinda funny. I dont' see you holding the same standard about the press on the right towards obama.

What press on the right?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I find your objections kinda funny. I dont' see you holding the same standard about the press on the right towards obama.

What press on the right?

Fox news, National Review, and the multitude of online sites.

[sheepshead]

I'm getting ready for the show after McCain wins this thing. They are already setting the stage. It'll get as ugly as ugly gets. Pop some corn, grab some thin mints and a slurpy and hunker down!!!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I'm getting ready for the show after McCain wins this thing. They are already setting the stage. It'll get as ugly as ugly gets. Pop some corn, grab some thin mints and a slurpy and hunker down!!!

What show?

The dems are gonna control the house and senate.

Hopefully Mac, if he wins, won't act as imperiously as Bush and they all can get some stuff done.

[sheepshead]

the pissing the moaning.

PDS, "we arent ready for a brother in the white house" bla bla bla

[Tyrone Bigguns]

the pissing the moaning.

PDS, "we arent ready for a brother in the white house" bla bla bla

If Obama wins...will the right be quiet?

[sheepshead]

the pissing the moaning.

PDS, "we arent ready for a brother in the white house" bla bla bla

If Obama wins...will the right be quiet?

If your guy isnt up by 10 points in every poll by now there's no way he's getting close. Thankfully, it appears the American people cannot be fooled anymore than they couldn't be fooled in '04.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

the pissing the moaning.

PDS, "we arent ready for a brother in the white house" bla bla bla

If Obama wins...will the right be quiet?

If your guy isnt up by 10 points in every poll by now there's no way he's getting close. Thankfully, it appears the American people cannot be fooled anymore than they couldn't be fooled in '04.

Deftly avoids answering the qeustion. :oops:

[sheepshead]

I cant answer it since I cant buy the premise. He's done.

[SkinBasket]

However, questioning polling data because YOU think it isn't right..doesn't make it so. I dont' sit here and deny or question the polling data that shows Mccain ahead...did i?

I didn't question the polling data. I questioned your misapplication of that specific polling data. Of course trying to make this about something it isn't allows you to shout "ad hominem!" instead of admitting you're data doesn't fit your argument. That would be too much like saying you were wrong, which we all know is impossible.


Article: That is your viewpoint.

No, it's my analysis. One you haven't done anything to refute except claim I am inherently biased to the right. Ad hominem!


Everyone frames things.

You can frame a pile of shit in a gilt and bejeweled frame and it's still a pile of shit.


That is why i find your hypocrisy so stunning.

I'm guessing in your strange little world, you can't see yourself in the mirror, can you? Otherwise you would permanently stunned. Which would probably be not such a bad thing.

Oh, and here's the new data I found:
http://www.pell.portland.or.us/~orc/graphs.gif
It clearly shows you are wrong more than you are visited by virii. I'm guessing you're just full of virii. Of all sorts. At least that's what the numbers tell me, and until you show me a graph showing me you're not full of virii, I'll have to assume it is true.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Explain to me, why the polling data is misapplied.

You stated that it wasn't terribly representative...basis for that claim? None.

All that i used that was to show that 85-90% of those who didn't graduate high school weren't voting dem.

[sheepshead]

"He says he's siding with the people just before he flew off for a fundraiser in Hollywood with Barbra Streisand," McCain said of his rival. "Let me tell you, my friends, there's no place I'd rather be than right here with the working men and women of Ohio."

[sheepshead]

There are no right leaning polls. Just left. Drill down and youll see 23% registered republican etc etc. Secondly, since the sham polling of '04, many are not telling the truth. Secondly and most importantly, there are large sections of the electorate that will say they are democrats and not pull the handle for this ticket. Dont ask em for back up on this do some homework yourself and youll find plenty of information.

[packinpatland]

Hanging with the high rollers isn't McCain's style........ :roll:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/11/mccain-celebrated-70th-bi_n_125704.html

[sheepshead]

Hanging with the high rollers isn't McCain's style........ :roll:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/11/mccain-celebrated-70th-bi_n_125704.html

Not when he's trying to convince us he ready for the most important job in the world. He was not quite doing that in 2006. McCain and his wife have been very successful. Many of us think that's an attribute.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Hanging with the high rollers isn't McCain's style........ :roll:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/11/mccain-celebrated-70th-bi_n_125704.html

Not when he's trying to convince us he ready for the most important job in the world. He was not quite doing that in 2006. McCain and his wife have been very successful. Many of us think that's an attribute.

The small amount of credibility you have is shot when you make these type of asine observations.

[Freak Out]

Not sure about this but I thought Merrill Lynch was one of Macs biggest...er..supporters? Funny that he was slamming Wall Street fat cats today.

[MJZiggy]

Not sure about this but I thought Merrill Lynch was one of Macs biggest...er..supporters? Funny that he was slamming Wall Street fat cats today.

Well since they got bought, he no longer has to show any loyalty...

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Not sure about this but I thought Merrill Lynch was one of Macs biggest...er..supporters? Funny that he was slamming Wall Street fat cats today.

He is flip flopping AGAIN.

March: ``I'm always for less regulation.''

Now: ``clean up Wall Street'' and ``replace the outdated, patchwork quilt of regulatory oversight,''

And, now betraying his conserv "roots." Government has ``a clear responsibility'' to make sure consumers are protected and that rules are enforced.

Government..more of the nanny state!

[texaspackerbacker]

Do you lefties really NOT get the picture?

When Obama and McCain BOTH talk about things like "cleaning up Wall Street" and "replace the outdated, patchwork quilt of regulatory oversight", they are actually approaching the situation from diametrically opposite ends of the spectrum.

Obama would inflict the heavy hand of government, and do his best to CHANGE our whole economic system--CHANGE it in the direction of SOCIALISM.

McCain, on the other hand, would streamline the limited regulatory function to the extent that there would be no contradiction/no flip-flopping at all in these two statements that were cited.

Effectively reining in the abusers of the system ends up BEING less regulation for the vast majority who are NOT scamming the system. The mish-mash of agencies doing the regulating now have done nothing but hassle the good people--while the abusers manage to slip through the cracks in the regulatory picture.

When McCain says CHANGE, he means in the NATURE of regulation. When Obama says CHANGE, he means in the DEGREE of regulation--much much more of it.

[MJZiggy]

How the hell do you know that, Tex? Did Obama say something about regulating Wall Street with a heavy governmental hand? I have yet to hear anything out of him that would indicate specifically that he wants a heavier handed government anywhere.

Nor has McCain specifically stated how he wants to accomplish his fixes.

Quit putting words into their mouths.

Skin, this is what I was talking about when I mentioned the same-old-shit attacks. If it were just Tex that would be one thing...

[HowardRoark]

You could make a pretty strong case that regulation in response to Enron could end up being the “smoking gun” in this financial crisis. FASB 157 was put into effect in order to “regulate” bad balance sheets. The problem is that balance sheets already had been put together. If all these companies would not be required to “mark to market” all the time, this problem would not be here.

I am arguing for or against FASB 157. Just saying what is going on. In essence, an accounting standard could be shutting down our financial system

[SkinBasket]

Skin, this is what I was talking about when I mentioned the same-old-shit attacks. If it were just Tex that would be one thing...

Well, while I still find it hard to believe you defend Obama out of a sense of overwhelming justice rather than political leaning, I would posit that a vast majority of the activity in this thread has been in direct response to anti McCain and/or Palin articles posted by a certain sophisticated rat (once again, not that there's a problem with that, that's what we're here for).


I've been trying to stay central, but the more you guys rip on the guy using a lot of hyperbole and going after him for the same shit over and over, the more I feel like I need to defend the dude. However between a few of the things that I've read lately and the contradiction between what he says he's going to do and what his VP candidate believes in.

I think this may be an issue of perspective that stems from your belief you're are in the center, when everything you've posted about politics in the past and recently would certainly indicate you have a healthy blue tinge about you. Without trying to stereotype you, or maybe I am but just can't help it, I know plenty of Democrats who believe the same thing, or don't believe it, but say they're Independent or Centrist as a means of essentially cheating in any argument by immediately placing any view more conservative than theirs further "right," and therefor less "mainstream." For all intensive purposes, whether intentional or not, that appears what you are doing here.

As far as hyperbole goes, I think there's plenty on both sides to go around. I hardly think the American hating terrorist leader in disguise Barak Hussein Obama suffers from it any more than the patriotic war hero turned true American leader John McCain. :wink:

[LL2]

Hanging with the high rollers isn't McCain's style........ :roll:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/11/mccain-celebrated-70th-bi_n_125704.html

Big Clinton supporter to come out and endorse McCain and calls Obama an "elitest."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

The truth is that Obama has had a really good life. He portrays the image of being from the south side of Chicago. The truth is he went to a private, and very expensive school in Hawaii, and he went to Harvard. Those are elitest institutions, not schools in the hood of the south side of Chicago.

[packinpatland]

You know, going to an 'elitest' school, doesn't make one elite.
My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. She was the product of the public school system. How is hard work on the part of parents/grandparents securing the best for their child considered elitest?
Good for him for going to those schools, he wasn't legacied......he had to work and pay for the priveledge of attending.


Lynn Forester de Rothschild, now that's someone anyone could call elitest. Talk about legacy........

[LL2]

You know, going to an 'elitest' school, doesn't make one elite.
My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. She was the product of the public school system. How is hard work on the part of parents/grandparents securing the best for their child considered elitest?
Good for him for going to those schools, he wasn't legacied......he had to work and pay for the priveledge of attending.

Well, being in an elite class is by defintion having the ability to have to choose the best of anything. So, by that defintion it does make you and Obama among the elite. Did Obama have to pay for his private school education growing up? He had to work for that or was it his folks? Can a family making $50k a year or less afford to send their kids to a school that may cost $5k a year or more? I'd would be hard to do that for 2-3 kids on an average income. I love how you try to give the impression that Obama is an average Joe and McCain is a high roller. Yes, the McCain's are wealthy, so what, and so is Obama and his wife. McCain, mostly his wife, may be worth $100 million, while Obama may be worth $10 million. I don't know for sure, but the truth is Obama is an elitist. Biden and Palin are the average Joe's among the group. Biden is one of the lowest wage earners among senators, and Palin hasn't made much yet.

[packinpatland]

You know, going to an 'elitest' school, doesn't make one elite.
My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. She was the product of the public school system. How is hard work on the part of parents/grandparents securing the best for their child considered elitest?
Good for him for going to those schools, he wasn't legacied......he had to work and pay for the priveledge of attending.

Well, being in an elite class is by defintion having the ability to have to choose the best of anything. So, by that defintion it does make you and Obama among the elite. Did Obama have to pay for his private school education growing up? He had to work for that or was it his folks? Can a family making $50k a year or less afford to send their kids to a school that may cost $5k a year or more? I'd would be hard to do that for 2-3 kids on an average income. I love how you try to give the impression that Obama is an average Joe and McCain is a high roller. Yes, the McCain's are wealthy, so what, and so is Obama and his wife. McCain, mostly his wife, may be worth $100 million, while Obama may be worth $10 million. I don't know for sure, but the truth is Obama is an elitist. Biden and Palin are the average Joe's among the group. Biden is one of the lowest wage earners among senators, and Palin hasn't made much yet.

All you say would make sense...but you don't even take into consideration the hard work of the child... my daughter worked hard to secure scholarships. At the time she went to Drew University it was 33K......with two other kids at home, there was no way we could have afforded that. In addition to her scholarship, she also worked as a RA for three years. There was no scholarship $ offered for Yale.......like Obama, she graduated with hefty school loans. She worked as a TA for the two years she was there.
All I'm saying is this..........Obama may have money now....but didn't always have the advantages wealth brings.

[HowardRoark]

You know, going to an 'elitest' school, doesn't make one elite.
My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. She was the product of the public school system. How is hard work on the part of parents/grandparents securing the best for their child considered elitest?
Good for him for going to those schools, he wasn't legacied......he had to work and pay for the priveledge of attending.

Well, being in an elite class is by defintion having the ability to have to choose the best of anything. So, by that defintion it does make you and Obama among the elite. Did Obama have to pay for his private school education growing up? He had to work for that or was it his folks? Can a family making $50k a year or less afford to send their kids to a school that may cost $5k a year or more? I'd would be hard to do that for 2-3 kids on an average income. I love how you try to give the impression that Obama is an average Joe and McCain is a high roller. Yes, the McCain's are wealthy, so what, and so is Obama and his wife. McCain, mostly his wife, may be worth $100 million, while Obama may be worth $10 million. I don't know for sure, but the truth is Obama is an elitist. Biden and Palin are the average Joe's among the group. Biden is one of the lowest wage earners among senators, and Palin hasn't made much yet.

All you say would make sense...but you don't even take into consideration the hard work of the child... my daughter worked hard to secure scholarships. At the time she went to Drew University it was 33K......with two other kids at home, there was no way we could have afforded that. In addition to her scholarship, she also worked as a RA for three years. There was no scholarship $ offered for Yale.......like Obama, she graduated with hefty school loans. She worked as a TA for the two years she was there.
All I'm saying is this..........Obama may have money now....but didn't always have the advantages wealth brings.

Who cares about the money....that's not elitist. Obama's problem is he is an "Elitist" on thought. He thinks he and his kind have a monopoly on ideas. They want tell all of us "great unwashed" how to think.

I think where the money came from is telling too. McCain's "elite" money came from beer swilling people over the past half century. Obama's came from royalties on books he has written on his favorite subject. Himself.

His latest mocking of "ownership society" is very telling.....and scary.

[texaspackerbacker]

How the hell do you know that, Tex? Did Obama say something about regulating Wall Street with a heavy governmental hand? I have yet to hear anything out of him that would indicate specifically that he wants a heavier handed government anywhere.

Nor has McCain specifically stated how he wants to accomplish his fixes.

Quit putting words into their mouths.

Skin, this is what I was talking about when I mentioned the same-old-shit attacks. If it were just Tex that would be one thing...

Obama, like McCain, has, in fact, criticized the ineffectiveness of the regulatory process on these Wall Street giants. As for the "solution" aspect, no, I don't KNOW what Obama would do, any more than anybody KNOWS what anybody, including themselves, would do in future circumstances. And it's certainly a good point that Obama has virtually no record of DOING anything about anything--the inexperience angle.

However, the best indicators of what he would do in terms of specifics are these:

1. what he advocates in general--inflicting the heavy hand of government indiscriminately on people--which involves hassling a huge number of good normal people in a usually unsuccessful attempt to foil a few scam artists, and

2. what his kind--liberal Democrats--have done always and forever--increase the size and power of government and get in the business of people who just want to be left alone and play by the rules.

Now, Ziggy, do you have ANY knowledge or reason to believe that Obama's brand of CHANGE is anything other than what I've described?

[MOBB DEEP]

For all those that say Obama is a good speaker and very eloquent I just do not see it, or hear it. He's no Bill Clinton when it comes to speaking. McCain may not be the best speaker, but he's no worse than Obama. I've been watching CNN a lot lately and when I see Obama speak he seems to pause a lot and say "you know", which is the equivalent of saying "um." I think Biden and Palin are much more effective speakers.


wifey said i should just write "absurd..."

[HowardRoark]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJSVPAx8xc

[SkinBasket]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJSVPAx8xc

Eeek. That's uncomfortable. He kind of drops right into panic mode doesn't he?

[sheepshead]

The debates will put this thing away for good.

[Zool]

The debates will put this thing away for good.

Really? This is the weirdest election. The Dems I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose. The Repubs I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose.

[LL2]

The debates will put this thing away for good.

Really? This is the weirdest election. The Dems I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose. The Repubs I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose.

I don't know how either side can say there is no way their guy will lose. This election is going to go down to the wire like the last two.

[sheepshead]

The debates will put this thing away for good.

Really? This is the weirdest election. The Dems I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose. The Repubs I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose.

see the youtube ditty above.

[Freak Out]

What was Mac telling the country on Monday? Hmmmm?

[packinpatland]

I'm confused....first they say Obama doesn't have the experience, hasn't been in the senate that long. Today they say he's part of the Washington problem.................. :roll:

[sheepshead]

“I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face,”

Barack Hussein Obama September 17, 2008


How Statesmanlike.

[packinpatland]

“I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face,”

Barack Hussein Obama September 17, 2008


How Statesmanlike.

My interpretation of this quote, and I had not heard it before, is this:
Wake up America. It's time to take this election seriously and VOTE!

[sheepshead]

The debates will put this thing away for good.

Really? This is the weirdest election. The Dems I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose. The Repubs I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose.


http://w3.newsmax.com/a/morrismap/?s=al&promo_code=6AB2-1

[packinpatland]

The debates will put this thing away for good.

Really? This is the weirdest election. The Dems I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose. The Repubs I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose.


http://w3.newsmax.com/a/morrismap/?s=al&promo_code=6AB2-1


We could do this all day................. :roll:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/10/electoral.map/index.html

[sheepshead]

yeah we could except. I wasnt copying a poll or worse the culmination of polls by a leftist news channel. Dick Morris is a guy who's opinion I respect and this map is about what I think the final election will look like at best for Barry O. By the way from 1991 until 2000 Bill Clinton didnt relieve himself unless Morris told him to.

[sheepshead]

“I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face,”

Barack Hussein Obama September 17, 2008


How Statesmanlike.

My interpretation of this quote, and I had not heard it before, is this:
Wake up America. It's time to take this election seriously and VOTE!


He says argue with independents and republicans and you think it's a "get out the vote" rally?

[sheepshead]

I'm confused....first they say Obama doesn't have the experience, hasn't been in the senate that long. Today they say he's part of the Washington problem.................. :roll:

Ok, this is the last time, you might want to do a little home work yourself. Also when deciding whom to vote for, list all the issues that are important to you. Try to do it unbiasedly as possible. Then rank them in order of importance. Remember the only jobs the government can create are government jobs. List social issues as well.

Then do your homework.

This from Sen. McCain today:

He took more money from Fannie and Freddie than any Senator but the Democratic chairman of the committee that regulates them. He put Fannie Mae's CEO who helped create this disaster in charge of finding his Vice President. Fannie's former General Counsel is a senior adviser to his campaign. Whose side do you think he is on? When I pushed legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Senator Obama was silent. He didn't lift a hand to avert this crisis. While the leaders of Fannie and Freddie were lining the pockets of his campaign, they were sowing the seeds of the financial crisis we see today and enriching themselves with millions of dollars in payments.

[SkinBasket]

I'm confused....first they say Obama doesn't have the experience, hasn't been in the senate that long. Today they say he's part of the Washington problem.................. :roll:

It's easy to fuck up quickly when you have no idea what you're doing.

[packinpatland]

yeah we could except. I wasnt copying a poll or worse the culmination of polls by a leftist news channel. Dick Morris is a guy who's opinion I respect and this map is about what I think the final election will look like at best for Barry O. By the way from 1991 until 2000 Bill Clinton didnt relieve himself unless Morris told him to.

Ahhhhh.......I finally get it. Because you respect Dick Morris and this map is what you think the final election will look like, then......it must be.

[sheepshead]

yeah we could except. I wasnt copying a poll or worse the culmination of polls by a leftist news channel. Dick Morris is a guy who's opinion I respect and this map is about what I think the final election will look like at best for Barry O. By the way from 1991 until 2000 Bill Clinton didnt relieve himself unless Morris told him to.

Ahhhhh.......I finally get it. Because you respect Dick Morris and this map is what you think the final election will look like, then......it must be.

Just my opinion. I could be way off.

[packinpatland]

I am asking this question void of any cynicism........
Is there a news outlet that is truely neutral? One that simply reports news and lets the viewer digest and form opinions?

[mraynrand]

I am asking this question void of any cynicism........
Is there a news outlet that is truely neutral? One that simply reports news and lets the viewer digest and form opinions?

By definition, no. even the most apparently neutral outlets bias things by what they choose to cover, what they choose for page 1, what they choose for titles, etc. That's why you have to read many sources. NY Times, Washington Times and Post, Wall Street Journal are four good starting sources. Read the Times A section all the way through and you will get most of the news, even if it is arranged in a biased manner.

[texaspackerbacker]

The debates will put this thing away for good.

Really? This is the weirdest election. The Dems I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose. The Repubs I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose.

One reason for that is the Bradley Effect--Governor Sibelius of Kansas, an Obamaphile, brought that up just this morning. On top of that, I think you have a REVERSE Bradley Effect regarding gender and Sarah Palin.

It's highly probable that the polls are skewed toward Obama for those reasons.

As for the Debates, just as in the 2000 and 2004 elections, the debates--really ANYTHING--that gives the people a comparison of the candidates views, values, and positions that is NOT filtered by the media FAVORS the Republicans--simply because they/we are right on all the issues and so much more in tune with the views, values, and positions of the huge majority of good normal mostly apolitical Americans. That also explains why Obama wimped out of the series of weekly head-to-head townhall meetings that McCain proposed.

[Cheesehead Craig]

It's amazing how politics can make everyone seem mean, disrespectful and condescending. It just seems to be the nature of the beast.

You leave politics out of the conversation and just about everyone here would be happy to have a beer and pizza at the local bar with each other and have fun.

[texaspackerbacker]

It's amazing how politics can make everyone seem mean, disrespectful and condescending. It just seems to be the nature of the beast.

You leave politics out of the conversation and just about everyone here would be happy to have a beer and pizza at the local bar with each other and have fun.

Ah, but in addition to being so VITALLY IMPORTANT in EVERY way, including your ability to relax and enjoy your beer and pizza, talking POLITICS is FUN!!!

Talking/arguing about football and sports in general is FUN too, but POLITICS is even more FUN. Of course, this is America, so you have the freedom to think otherwise. Just don't mess with MY freedom to have MY fun, or you really WILL see "mean, disrespectful, and condescending" (I took the liberty of adding the comma you left out).

[Cheesehead Craig]

It's amazing how politics can make everyone seem mean, disrespectful and condescending. It just seems to be the nature of the beast.

You leave politics out of the conversation and just about everyone here would be happy to have a beer and pizza at the local bar with each other and have fun.

Ah, but in addition to being so VITALLY IMPORTANT in EVERY way, including your ability to relax and enjoy your beer and pizza, talking POLITICS is FUN!!!

Talking/arguing about football and sports in general is FUN too, but POLITICS is even more FUN. Of course, this is America, so you have the freedom to think otherwise. Just don't mess with MY freedom to have MY fun, or you really WILL see "mean, disrespectful, and condescending" (I took the liberty of adding the comma you left out).

I pretty much stay out of political discussions. Too often tempers flare and things are taken out of context. I'm too much of a guy who just wants everyone to be happy. That wonderful middle child syndrome.

[texaspackerbacker]

Fine. Be blissfully ...... happy.

I tend to be sensitive about us because over at JSOnline where I posted for years, there were occasional outbursts by ignorant assholes who didn't like political posting (no, I'm not calling you an ignorant asshole).

Eventually, those ignorant assholes won out and ruined the happiness for a lot of the rest of us. That's why posts like yours present a massive RED FLAG.

[mraynrand]

I tend to be sensitive about us because over at JSOnline where I posted for years, there were occasional outbursts by ignorant assholes who didn't like political posting

Talk about 'gonadally challenged' - you pretty much defined the entire JS online staff and management. They were so pathetic that they couldn't stop scripts, couldn't manage trolls, and eventually QUIT! - First they quit on the political forums (how wimpy does a paper have to be to do that?) - and then they bailed on forums for sports as well. I too found the wimps nauseating who kept writing in the political forums. remember those guys - they would say - Hey, stop the political discussion, this is a sports forum. They knew which threads were political, yet they kept clicking on them to complain. My suspicion was that the JS canceled the forums because they didn't like the conservative viewpoints.

[texaspackerbacker]

Good Point.

We did kinda dominate, and the Milwaukee Journal has been liberal Democrat probably for a hundred years.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Fine. Be blissfully ...... happy.

I tend to be sensitive about us because over at JSOnline where I posted for years, there were occasional outbursts by ignorant assholes who didn't like political posting (no, I'm not calling you an ignorant asshole).

Eventually, those ignorant assholes won out and ruined the happiness for a lot of the rest of us. That's why posts like yours present a massive RED FLAG.
No worries. You can go ahead and chat about politics until your fingers bleed from typing so much.

I wasn't singling you out in the whole discussion and apologize if you felt as such. There's 8 pages of evidence that everyone gets like this. It's not party exclusive by any stretch.

I'll now go back to my anonymous reading of this thread.

[bobblehead]

The debates will put this thing away for good.

Really? This is the weirdest election. The Dems I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose. The Repubs I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose.

yet both sides are saying it cuz "the other guy just can't win".

[bobblehead]

The debates will put this thing away for good.

Really? This is the weirdest election. The Dems I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose. The Repubs I talk to all say there's no way their guy can lose.


http://w3.newsmax.com/a/morrismap/?s=al&promo_code=6AB2-1


We could do this all day................. :roll:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/10/electoral.map/index.html

We could....but we could also post the USA today's front page map after bush/kerry as broken down by COUNTY....talk about a see of red, yet it was a close election.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

yeah we could except. I wasnt copying a poll or worse the culmination of polls by a leftist news channel. Dick Morris is a guy who's opinion I respect and this map is about what I think the final election will look like at best for Barry O. By the way from 1991 until 2000 Bill Clinton didnt relieve himself unless Morris told him to.

Dick morris is a guy that nobody respects.

More to the point, it might be nice if you could occasionally be accurate. Morris was let go/resigned after the prostitute incident in 96. :oops:

[bobblehead]

My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. ..

I think if you dub yourself "sophisticated rat" some might think that smacks of elitism.....

[Tyrone Bigguns]

My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. ..

I think if you dub yourself "sophisticated rat" some might think that smacks of elitism.....

Methinks you don't do well with the english language.

[packinpatland]

My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. ..

I think if you dub yourself "sophisticated rat" some might think that smacks of elitism.....

I didn't 'dub' myself anything. Mad gave me that label two years ago.....ask him.

[retailguy]

yeah we could except. I wasnt copying a poll or worse the culmination of polls by a leftist news channel. Dick Morris is a guy who's opinion I respect and this map is about what I think the final election will look like at best for Barry O. By the way from 1991 until 2000 Bill Clinton didnt relieve himself unless Morris told him to.

Dick morris is a guy that nobody respects.

More to the point, it might be nice if you could occasionally be accurate. Morris was let go/resigned after the prostitute incident in 96. :oops:

Morris had worked with Clinton since 1978, other than the 92 campaign when they were in some sort of a "tiff". I wouldn't say "no one" respects Morris' opinion, but he's not "unbiased" when it comes to the Clinton's, that's for sure. And Tyrone, if I were you, I'd leave sex scandals out of the discussion when it comes to "respect" because we have an entire party that believes that personal behavior shouldn't affect professional respect.... :oops:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

yeah we could except. I wasnt copying a poll or worse the culmination of polls by a leftist news channel. Dick Morris is a guy who's opinion I respect and this map is about what I think the final election will look like at best for Barry O. By the way from 1991 until 2000 Bill Clinton didnt relieve himself unless Morris told him to.

Dick morris is a guy that nobody respects.

More to the point, it might be nice if you could occasionally be accurate. Morris was let go/resigned after the prostitute incident in 96. :oops:

Morris had worked with Clinton since 1978, other than the 92 campaign when they were in some sort of a "tiff". I wouldn't say "no one" respects Morris' opinion, but he's not "unbiased" when it comes to the Clinton's, that's for sure. And Tyrone, if I were you, I'd leave sex scandals out of the discussion when it comes to "respect" because we have an entire party that believes that personal behavior shouldn't affect professional respect.... :oops:

Respect: Has nothing to do with the sex part. You are reading things i never said. I've heard plenty of conserv commentators take shots at him.

Point being...he wasn't with him till 2000..and he wasn't advising him in 91..or, rather he wasn't the main man.

That is the point...being accurate. You can take my view of him out of the equation, but you can't take Sheep's inaccuracy out.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. ..

I think if you dub yourself "sophisticated rat" some might think that smacks of elitism.....

I didn't 'dub' myself anything. Mad gave me that label two years ago.....ask him.

Because he knew you were an elitist. :roll:

[packinpatland]

My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. ..

I think if you dub yourself "sophisticated rat" some might think that smacks of elitism.....

I didn't 'dub' myself anything. Mad gave me that label two years ago.....ask him.

Because he knew you were an elitist. :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol: .......that's good.
You know what this 'elitist' did today? Drove my daughter work, cleaned my house, mowed lawns for over 2hrs, trimmed my own hedges, took my 8 year old car in for a tune-up, 3 loads of laundry, made dinner..........and am now enjoying a nice glass of wine.......yes......I'm an entitled elitist. :lol:

By the way it's a $12 bottle of wonderful California Cabernet :wink:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. ..

I think if you dub yourself "sophisticated rat" some might think that smacks of elitism.....

I didn't 'dub' myself anything. Mad gave me that label two years ago.....ask him.

Because he knew you were an elitist. :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol: .......that's good.
You know what this 'elitist' did today? Drove my daughter work, cleaned my house, mowed lawns for over 2hrs, trimmed my own hedges, took my 8 year old car in for a tune-up, 3 loads of laundry, made dinner..........and am now enjoying a nice glass of wine.......yes......I'm an entitled elitist. :lol:

By the way it's a $12 bottle of wonderful California Cabernet :wink:

all the while knowing you knew the best way to accomplish each task and would demand everybody do it your way. :wink:

wait, that mite not be because you are an elitist...just cause you are a woman. :wink:

[packinpatland]

My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. ..

I think if you dub yourself "sophisticated rat" some might think that smacks of elitism.....

I didn't 'dub' myself anything. Mad gave me that label two years ago.....ask him.

Because he knew you were an elitist. :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol: .......that's good.
You know what this 'elitist' did today? Drove my daughter work, cleaned my house, mowed lawns for over 2hrs, trimmed my own hedges, took my 8 year old car in for a tune-up, 3 loads of laundry, made dinner..........and am now enjoying a nice glass of wine.......yes......I'm an entitled elitist. :lol:

By the way it's a $12 bottle of wonderful California Cabernet :wink:

all the while knowing you knew the best way to accomplish each task and would demand everybody do it your way. :wink:

wait, that mite not be because you are an elitist...just cause you are a woman. :wink:

.........hear me roar......... :wink:

that 'everybody'?......... would be only me......

[LL2]

I think I should get one of these T-shirts for my daughter....and buy one for PIP too!

http://www.bestpartyoncampus.com/?gclid=CNvqitvO5pUCFQS7sgoduz7Keg

[Tyrone Bigguns]

My daughter went to a small private university, and then on to Yale. We/she are not elitest. ..

I think if you dub yourself "sophisticated rat" some might think that smacks of elitism.....

I didn't 'dub' myself anything. Mad gave me that label two years ago.....ask him.

Because he knew you were an elitist. :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol: .......that's good.
You know what this 'elitist' did today? Drove my daughter work, cleaned my house, mowed lawns for over 2hrs, trimmed my own hedges, took my 8 year old car in for a tune-up, 3 loads of laundry, made dinner..........and am now enjoying a nice glass of wine.......yes......I'm an entitled elitist. :lol:

By the way it's a $12 bottle of wonderful California Cabernet :wink:

all the while knowing you knew the best way to accomplish each task and would demand everybody do it your way. :wink:

wait, that mite not be because you are an elitist...just cause you are a woman. :wink:

.........hear me roar......... :wink:

that 'everybody'?......... would be only me......

Willing to bet your children and hubby might disageee on that "everybody." :wink:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think I should get one of these T-shirts for my daughter....and buy one for PIP too!

http://www.bestpartyoncampus.com/?gclid=CNvqitvO5pUCFQS7sgoduz7Keg

Yeah, good for cleaning the toilet.

[retailguy]

I think I should get one of these T-shirts for my daughter....and buy one for PIP too!

http://www.bestpartyoncampus.com/?gclid=CNvqitvO5pUCFQS7sgoduz7Keg

lol, that's really cute!

[packinpatland]

"Willing to bet your children and hubby might disageee on that "everybody."

Well............my husband has been on business travel for the past week, two of my three daughters are out on their own.......my daughter and I, plus my two Goldens 'hold down the fort'.
And..........can I add.......that I balanced the checkbook too. :wink:

AND...... the T-shirt .........would be a good toilet cleaning rag. :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

"Willing to bet your children and hubby might disageee on that "everybody."

Well............my husband has been on business travel for the past week, two of my three daughters are out on their own.......my daughter and I, plus my two Goldens 'hold down the fort'.
And..........can I add.......that I balanced the checkbook too. :wink:

AND...... the T-shirt .........would be a good toilet cleaning rag. :lol:

The goldens speak amongst themselves about the elitist and how to overthrow her!

[packinpatland]

"Willing to bet your children and hubby might disageee on that "everybody."

Well............my husband has been on business travel for the past week, two of my three daughters are out on their own.......my daughter and I, plus my two Goldens 'hold down the fort'.
And..........can I add.......that I balanced the checkbook too. :wink:

AND...... the T-shirt .........would be a good toilet cleaning rag. :lol:

The goldens speak amongst themselves about the elitist and how to overthrow her!

Ahhh.........but I and only I know where the kibbles are kept. :wink:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

"Willing to bet your children and hubby might disageee on that "everybody."

Well............my husband has been on business travel for the past week, two of my three daughters are out on their own.......my daughter and I, plus my two Goldens 'hold down the fort'.
And..........can I add.......that I balanced the checkbook too. :wink:

AND...... the T-shirt .........would be a good toilet cleaning rag. :lol:

The goldens speak amongst themselves about the elitist and how to overthrow her!

Ahhh.........but I and only I know where the kibbles are kept. :wink:

See, you are conservative in liberal clothing.

[packinpatland]

"Willing to bet your children and hubby might disageee on that "everybody."

Well............my husband has been on business travel for the past week, two of my three daughters are out on their own.......my daughter and I, plus my two Goldens 'hold down the fort'.
And..........can I add.......that I balanced the checkbook too. :wink:

AND...... the T-shirt .........would be a good toilet cleaning rag. :lol:

The goldens speak amongst themselves about the elitist and how to overthrow her!

Ahhh.........but I and only I know where the kibbles are kept. :wink:

See, you are conservative in liberal clothing.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[LL2]

Ty and PIP just wish Hilary had girl power. She thought she had it but Palin stole her thunder. Now she is just doing little rallies no cares about for Obama.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty and PIP just wish Hilary had girl power. She thought she had it but Palin stole her thunder. Now she is just doing little rallies no cares about for Obama.

Ty thinks you are the gayest poster ever...discussing girl power.

Just put on your spice girls cd...and stfu.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Hillary Clinton 2012!

WE all know who Bill & Hillary are going to vote for when they get in that booth.

[texaspackerbacker]

Fine. Be blissfully ...... happy.

I tend to be sensitive about us because over at JSOnline where I posted for years, there were occasional outbursts by ignorant assholes who didn't like political posting (no, I'm not calling you an ignorant asshole).

Eventually, those ignorant assholes won out and ruined the happiness for a lot of the rest of us. That's why posts like yours present a massive RED FLAG.
No worries. You can go ahead and chat about politics until your fingers bleed from typing so much.

I wasn't singling you out in the whole discussion and apologize if you felt as such. There's 8 pages of evidence that everyone gets like this. It's not party exclusive by any stretch.

I'll now go back to my anonymous reading of this thread.

I'm not taking it personal. I'm thankful for "anonymous readers" like you. Without you/them, we're just preaching to the choir--our own kind, or beating our heads against the wall trying to convince the imbeciles of the other side. So you and your kind are what make it all worthwhile.

Often, a large part of the 8 or 9 or whatever pages degenerate into crap--like the last page or so here. I don't know if that's just a natural phenomenon, or if it's the leftists diverting from the REAL discussion because the are hopelessly outclassed in discussing real political issues.

If it's THIS kind of stuff that bores you, I'm with you on that. If it's the real meat and potatoes political discussion, though, well, each to his own. It's fun for me.

[retailguy]

Hillary Clinton 2012!

WE all know who Bill & Hillary are going to vote for when they get in that booth.

Bob Barr?

[cpk1994]

yeah we could except. I wasnt copying a poll or worse the culmination of polls by a leftist news channel. Dick Morris is a guy who's opinion I respect and this map is about what I think the final election will look like at best for Barry O. By the way from 1991 until 2000 Bill Clinton didnt relieve himself unless Morris told him to.

Dick morris is a guy that nobody respects.

More to the point, it might be nice if you could occasionally be accurate. Morris was let go/resigned after the prostitute incident in 96. :oops:Dick Morris is heavly respected and he correctly predicted how the OBama/Clinton primary race would go down. Saying Dick Morris is a guy that nobody respects prvoies you talk out your ass. Or that you voted Clinton.

[texaspackerbacker]

Morris may be a sleaze, not worthy of respect in the moral sense, but he's damn smart politically, and thus, worthy of respect in that sense.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

yeah we could except. I wasnt copying a poll or worse the culmination of polls by a leftist news channel. Dick Morris is a guy who's opinion I respect and this map is about what I think the final election will look like at best for Barry O. By the way from 1991 until 2000 Bill Clinton didnt relieve himself unless Morris told him to.

Dick morris is a guy that nobody respects.

More to the point, it might be nice if you could occasionally be accurate. Morris was let go/resigned after the prostitute incident in 96. :oops:Dick Morris is heavly respected and he correctly predicted how the OBama/Clinton primary race would go down. Saying Dick Morris is a guy that nobody respects prvoies you talk out your ass. Or that you voted Clinton.

Tex expressed my sentiments. Nobody is saying he isnt' smart. But, very few respect him. Big difference.

[mraynrand]

Morris may be a sleaze, not worthy of respect in the moral sense, but he's damn smart politically, and thus, worthy of respect in that sense.


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