Al Harris might hold out training camp.

[mmmdk]

From JS Online:

Al Harris said: "It's not 100%, that's for sure," Harris said from his home in Coral Springs, Fla. "I'd like to come and do my job, but everyone's got to be fair, too. It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out."

Also: "It is what it is," Harris said. "Either they want me or they don't. My thing is be fair. Fair is fair. We'll see if they're going to be fair or not and that will probably determine what I do next."

It's a shame but Harris is in my doghouse now. What a jerk (to some extend), he signed a fair extension and so be it. First it was Mike McKenzie then Wonderlic Walker and now Al Harris. What strikes me is this line: "Either they want me or they don't. My thing is be fair. Fair is fair. We'll see if they're going to be fair or not and that will probably determine what I do next." Harris clearly states that he'll hold out if there's no NEW DEAL. Harris want more guaranteed money and Pro Bowl incentives. The latter I could agree with and if Packers simply guarantee some (more) of the contract but with no or very little new money - then ok. Alas, I'm already giving in to Al Harris. What will happen next?

[Partial]

What a douche. He'd better be there.

[hurleyfan]

"Al Harris said: "It's not 100%, that's for sure," Harris said from his home in Coral Springs, Fla. "I'd like to come and do my job, but everyone's got to be fair, too. It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out."

It was fair a year ago, why not now?

[packer4life]

it's interesting that they discussed Kampman's contract as a main reason for an alleged future holdout. I wonder how much Driver's extension factored in too? The bad press, holdouts, and whining never seem to end in Green Bay...very frustrating stuff.

The irony here is that I can see TT not budging at all, having Harris shipped out of Green Bay, and ending up with Carroll and Woodson as our starting corners. That outcome would basically mean that we swapped our aging, talented #1 for a more injury-prone, slightly less talented aging #1 at a much higher price :neutral:

[MJZiggy]

AH just made me sh** list. I wonder who the idiot is that's telling him this is a good idea.

[gbpackfan]

FUCK AL HARRIS! This has got to stop!!!!!!! Don't give him shit!!!!!

And another thing, this crap about doing what is best for his family! What, they cant live off of 18 million dollars!!!! Or whatever his millionaire deal was!!!!


FUCK YOU AL HARRIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BlueBrewer]

I sure am glad that Carrol is looking good in camp, he may have a job now.

[pittstang5]

This is disturbing news. The drama never stops in GB. I swear I'm gonna turn into an Eagles fan one of these days (lol).

I'm going to hold Harris to his word...well his original word that he would report to TC....ON TIME. Even if he does hold out, I can't imagine he'll hold out the entire length of TC, it's just not Harris's style. He's not going anywhere and if he wants more money...well, he's gotta play.

[packer4life]

you have to hope that this is an empty threat at the moment. i think TT needs to go off the record and basically tell al that he will be rewarded near the end of the season or early next season with a little bonus...this will allow harris to tell the media now that he will report in hopes that he will be taken care of in the future, and allows TT to not look like he is giving into player threats. it saves face, and also avoids another mckenzie mess in GB, that is for sure. If TT were to extend him now to avoid a holdout, more players will fall in line...TT needs to handle this with discretion and not make a walker/mckenzie out of him.

Al has been a respectable citizen and has played his heart out. He is an idiot for accepting a contract below value, but on the other side he has outplayed the contract. Cornerback is an important position, and this issue needs to get resolved, and god willing will not get out of control...COMPROMISE PEOPLE.

[MJZiggy]

You should tell TT that.

[ny10804]

He said he MIGHT miss Training Camp, and by the way he used his words, it didn't sound definitive. I'm guessing he'll do sort of what Javon Walker did prior to this year, and come back and try to prove on the field why he is worth a bonus (which I believe he already has).

He'll show up at Training Camp..

[Polaris]

In the end, after all is said and done, the Packers ultimately will either have to pay him or trade him if he refuses to honor his contract.

Interesting that the contract to the (white) Aaron Kampman bothers him more than the contract to the (black) Charles Woodson does. This echoes the subtext of the whole MM thing who was upset that Clifton got reworked when he didn't.

Throw in Barnett's comments about his bar and I think that there's a perception among some of the black players on this team that they're not on a level playing field because of their race. I'm not going to comment on whether or not I think it's valid, I'm just saying that I think there is this perception.

[Deputy Nutz]

I am sorry Mr. Wilde, your article came correct. Al Harris is a puke bag bastard.

[jack's smirking revenge]

In the end, after all is said and done, the Packers ultimately will either have to pay him or trade him if he refuses to honor his contract.

My thought exactly. This is the beginning of a long, annoying process with Al Harris. The team either folds and gives him what he wants, risks causing more "undervalued, unfair contracts" on the team, or they take a stand and let him sit. I believe he'll report near the end of camp in a Walker-like statement, but he'll be gone next year demanding a trade because he "doesn't think the team treated him fair."

I truly am sick of this scenario. Seems like it happens every year and primarily to the Pack. Fair is fair? How about you're a f'in MILLIONAIRE because you play a game? I think that's pretty f'in fair.

tyler

[chain_gang]

AH just made me sh** list. I wonder who the idiot is that's telling him this is a good idea.


More than likely it's his own empty wallet. I can envision Harris as the type, that blows the millions he makes, and now he's worried about what's going to happend after the playing days are over. Probably didn't save a dime. Oh well, sucks to be him.

[Pack0514]

Although kinda shitty to say, I wouldnt give him any more money into the future past next season. If we can do something for him this year and next, I say go ahead and do something. He is getting up there in age and I think Carroll may take his or Woodson spot in a year or two. If Carroll develops, we will need money to resign him.

[packerpete]

Look people, the Green Bay Packer franchise is going to be around a lot longer than Al "Douchebag" Harris.

Keep the whiner with no contract compromises.

Bench the MF.

Play Carroll and Woodchuck and Blackmon and Hawkins and Horton and Fontenot.

Let this ungrateful bastard see how much fun it is with money when all you do is carry equipment to the field. maybe he can learn to appreciate that 3 million per year isnt all that bad. I hope his fuckin family chokes on that much food.

This team is not going to win this seaason anyway.

Trade this piece of shit before the draft next season after making him sit on his dumb ass all season long. Punish him, then discard him like a used colostomy bag.

The CB position will not be manned by Al "Douchebag" Harris when this team does win. Lets not forget, Favre is playing one, maybe two more seasons, then we have absolutely ZERO at the position for the foreseeable future, and our RB situation is completely unsettled also. Its gonna take some time to rebuild the offense, and sadly, Rodgers isnt the answer.

Make an example of this asshole now for all to see, the previous examples (MM, JW) have jeopardized the stability of this team and its ability to compete.

Other players who dont like his treatment can be noted and lost along the way. There are plenty of NFL players who play hard for thier current contracts and negotiate when thier current contract ends. We need to make certain that a similar policy is held on to in GB.

The Packers are far from a "Plantation" run team. Players that leave ultimately say that they didnt know how good they had it with the teams attitude towards players. We do not need to compromise any more, we need to hold the line and move on without malcontents and just continue to search for the right type of human beings to be good employees who deliver performance for fair pay without resorting to extortion tactics.

Other than that I really dont care....

[Partial]

I am not too worried though. Odds are he'll pull a Walker and play this season. After that, let him walk and find a trade if he wants. I have a hunch this will be his last productive year.

[Partial]

Does anyone know how much of a bonus he has left? We have his services cheap this year, and they continually increase until the end of the contract from here on out. I'd have no problems with cutting him after this season if his bonus is low enough. Chuck and Harris are temporary until Carroll, Hawkins, or Blackmon can step up, and I am confident one of those three will.

I don't think I'm being overzealous when I say we have a lot to look forward to at that position in the future. Blackmon, Hawkins, Horton and Carroll are all young and have shown flashes. Lets hope two of 'em can put it all together!!

[KYPack]

I definitely think there is another factor goin' on here.

I read another article on JSO before I read about Harris's whiney threat & noticed this quote:

"Barring an unexpected turn of events today, Harris and Woodson will be the only two healthy players to have not taken part in any of the 14 voluntary workouts."

I think this is a huge part of the beef. Harris plays the same position as Woodson & Woodson got the monster contract. Then Woodson doesn't show up at OTA. So Harris goes, "he ain't workin', I ain't workin".

I think Harris mentioned Kamp's deal because he didn't want to be obvious and mention Woodson's deal.

It's 50-50 whether Harris shows in camp. The other guys that held out got paid, but not as much as they wanted. If Harris has a smart agent, he'll show. The guy has very little leverage.

I hope Blackmon is a fast healer!

[Partial]

Look people, the Green Bay Packer franchise is going to be around a lot longer than Al "Douchebag" Harris.

Keep the whiner with no contract compromises.

Bench the MF.

Play Carroll and Woodchuck and Blackmon and Hawkins and Horton and Fontenot.

Let this ungrateful bastard see how much fun it is with money when all you do is carry equipment to the field. maybe he can learn to appreciate that 3 million per year isnt all that bad. I hope his fuckin family chokes on that much food.

This team is not going to win this seaason anyway.

Trade this piece of shit before the draft next season after making him sit on his dumb ass all season long. Punish him, then discard him like a used colostomy bag.

The CB position will not be manned by Al "Douchebag" Harris when this team does win. Lets not forget, Favre is playing one, maybe two more seasons, then we have absolutely ZERO at the position for the foreseeable future, and our RB situation is completely unsettled also. Its gonna take some time to rebuild the offense, and sadly, Rodgers isnt the answer.

Make an example of this asshole now for all to see, the previous examples (MM, JW) have jeopardized the stability of this team and its ability to compete.

Other players who dont like his treatment can be noted and lost along the way. There are plenty of NFL players who play hard for thier current contracts and negotiate when thier current contract ends. We need to make certain that a similar policy is held on to in GB.

The Packers are far from a "Plantation" run team. Players that leave ultimately say that they didnt know how good they had it with the teams attitude towards players. We do not need to compromise any more, we need to hold the line and move on without malcontents and just continue to search for the right type of human beings to be good employees who deliver performance for fair pay without resorting to extortion tactics.

Other than that I really dont care....

Judging from TT's drafts I would say they're building the trenches and are planning on being able to win without a gunslinging, premier quarterback. It's not unrealistic to think in a few years we'll be a very good defensive team because we're very young at every position other than corner, where we have a lot of young guys who are phenominal prospects who have two of the better guys to learn from in front of them.

As for the offensive trenches, Clifton, Klemm and Tauscher are the oldest going into their 7th seasons. The next oldest guy that will make the roster is entering his 3rd year.

[KYPack]

Does anyone know how much of a bonus he has left? We have his services cheap this year, and they continually increase until the end of the contract from here on out. I'd have no problems with cutting him after this season if his bonus is low enough. Chuck and Harris are temporary until Carroll, Hawkins, or Blackmon can step up, and I am confident one of those three will.

I don't think I'm being overzealous when I say we have a lot to look forward to at that position in the future. Blackmon, Hawkins, Horton and Carroll are all young and have shown flashes. Lets hope two of 'em can put it all together!!

Harris is signed thru 2009.

His cap hit (remaining pro-rated signing bonus) is 2,625,000. He is due a LBTE bonus of a million this year. The guy did sign a cheapie contract, based on the "NEW CBA era". It is a fair deal and he has very little leverage.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I am not too worried though. Odds are he'll pull a Walker and play this season. After that, let him walk and find a trade if he wants. I have a hunch this will be his last productive year.

i agree, he is not going to be good for much longer. and if he's as under payed as he says he is then he will report to camp not to miss out on any money, thats why i suggested in the other post to just give him a rise for this season. Then next year tarde him for a 3rd rounder. Plus you can't just let positions age, or your get a team like the titans when they had to release all their old players in the same year. heres hopeing corrol is good....

[Green Bud Packer]

harris is another in a long line of bad deals made by sherm the worm. let the punk sit.

[Partial]

Its not a bad deal. The cap went up more than 10%. Players that signed contracts that feel they have outperformed them want to get a piece of that pie. This has very little to do with Sherman.

[Green Bud Packer]

sorry i didn't mean harris' deal was bad i meant the deal for harris has gone bad. a testament to the type of player fatso brought to the pack.

[Partial]

Harris has shown nothing but class up until this point. He has always been a team leader as far as I know. He's getting older and he wasn't a high draft pick so he is trying to get some more money out of his stay in the league.

It is what it is. My guess is he'll be in camp and our starting corner week one.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Harris has shown nothing but class up until this point.

BTW, McKenzie and Walker were both hard-working, model players up until the point they became bad guys.

[Harlan Huckleby]

a testament to the type of player fatso brought to the pack.

Hey ! Sherman was not fat. He had a comfortable, Wisconsin male physique.

[beakerman]

Harris must of spent most of his money to hush up the stripper last year....

[Green Bud Packer]

a testament to the type of player fatso brought to the pack.

Hey ! Sherman was not fat. He had a comfortable, Wisconsin male physique.i give him the fact that it was all bought and paid for.

[Willard]

Sure, Sherman has a bit of junk in the trunk, but the Al Harris acquisition was one of the Pear's best moves as GM.

[Row 67]

The Al Harris situation is similar to Grady Jackson's situation last year- older guy, can still play, but might not have many years left. This isn't a young guy that has a lot of potential pro-bowl years left.

I think GB has WAY more bargaining power with Al Harris than they do with anyone else.

Shame on Al Harris. He got his sweet deal from Sherman because he was a company man and kept his mouth shut during the McKenzie situation. He was underpaid then and GB took care of him. I suspect they'd potentially have helped him out, but not now.

I'd tell him to take a long friggen walk off a short pier. We have three starting-caliber corners on this team, so if he wants to sit home, that's fine with us. We'll develop whoever is here.

I'm glad they got rid of Walker, but this annual "appease the maclcontent" revolving door is getting ridiculous.

Seems like every team has them though. The Bears have their problems, the Broncos are dealing with Lelie, even the Patriots have theirs. I think it just goes with the business- you can't make all 53 of your prima donna's happy.

Just once I'd love for one of these malcontents to be the one that crashes their motorcycle without a helmet on their noggin so then the team can just put them on a non-football injury list and not have to pay them anything.

[KYPack]

[quote=Partial]I(snip) Then next year trade him for a 3rd rounder. Plus you can't just let positions age, or your get a team like the titans when they had to release all their old players in the same year. heres hopeing corrol is good....

If they could get a 3rd, they'd trade him NOW.

Aging vets with a beef have very little to no trade value.

[falco]

This is retarded. Al Harris was one of, if not the best, defensive player on our team last year, and everyone would admit...until all of a sudden he has a contract dispute.

All of a sudden now he's an aging, worthless, replaceable corner.

Anybody remember what happened when McKenzie bolted?

[Partial]

The Al Harris situation is similar to Grady Jackson's situation last year- older guy, can still play, but might not have many years left. This isn't a young guy that has a lot of potential pro-bowl years left.

I think GB has WAY more bargaining power with Al Harris than they do with anyone else.

Shame on Al Harris. He got his sweet deal from Sherman because he was a company man and kept his mouth shut during the McKenzie situation. He was underpaid then and GB took care of him. I suspect they'd potentially have helped him out, but not now.

I'd tell him to take a long friggen walk off a short pier. We have three starting-caliber corners on this team, so if he wants to sit home, that's fine with us. We'll develop whoever is here.

I'm glad they got rid of Walker, but this annual "appease the maclcontent" revolving door is getting ridiculous.

Seems like every team has them though. The Bears have their problems, the Broncos are dealing with Lelie, even the Patriots have theirs. I think it just goes with the business- you can't make all 53 of your prima donna's happy.

Just once I'd love for one of these malcontents to be the one that crashes their motorcycle without a helmet on their noggin so then the team can just put them on a non-football injury list and not have to pay them anything.

It's going to be that way until contracts run out. The cap went up 10% yet contracts stayed the same unless you just resigned. Most guys want an extra 10% now.

[Partial]

This is retarded. Al Harris was one of, if not the best, defensive player on our team last year, and everyone would admit...until all of a sudden he has a contract dispute.

All of a sudden now he's an aging, worthless, replaceable corner.

Anybody remember what happened when McKenzie bolted?

He was a great player, yes. No one is denying that. We want him here, but we understand that no player is above the team and if the trend continues of giving players what they want we'll be the siberia of the NFL again in no time.

[Tony Oday]

Guarentee him some more of his contract and throw in int, tackle, prow bowl and Super Bowl incentives.

That means that he has goals so if he hits them more $$ and he is set with some $$ if he gets hurt.

Thats fair for a guy that has played lights out on our team and has been a team guy.

[CaptainKickass]

IF - he holds out of training camp:

Al, this is the bench......bench, this is Al. You two will be getting to know a lot of each other this season.

[Dabaddestbear]

This is disturbing news. The drama never stops in GB. I swear I'm gonna turn into an Eagles fan one of these days (lol).

I'm going to hold Harris to his word...well his original word that he would report to TC....ON TIME. Even if he does hold out, I can't imagine he'll hold out the entire length of TC, it's just not Harris's style. He's not going anywhere and if he wants more money...well, he's gotta play.
Alot of Packer fans was saying the same thing about Walker, and Mckinzie before him. The fact is if a player wants out or more money something is going to have to budge. GB has had issues over the past several years with players feeling underapreciated and it has to stop somewhere. Mckinzie is showed the door cuz he wanted more money and then give a less acomplisehed player (Harris) an extension. Walker was the teams only pro bowl WR but was shown the door while in the same breath the Packers give Driver an extension although he never put up Walkers numbers.
Now Harris a player that benefited from the Mckinzie fray feels slighted (for good reason) cuz a player that has perforemed no where near his level the past 3 years gets brung in to play the side that covers the second best WR on every team and is paid grossly more than him. Funny how Karma works.

[Rastak]

Harris has no leverage though......I mean almost zero.

[Partial]

Ras,

we all said the same thing about Walker, though.

[MJZiggy]

I still don't think Walker had a whole lot of leverage. I think he left town because it benefited the Packers to get the pick and perform miracles with it. If he had decided to pull his crap after the draft, I think he'd have wound up with splinters in his behind.

[Rastak]

Ras,

we all said the same thing about Walker, though.


He (Walker) HAD leverage. Last year of contract, GB was weak at receiever. By signing Woodson they could withstand Harris holding out. I think Harris has much less leverage for a number of reasons. Age, contract length, and GB's depth chart.

[Dabaddestbear]

Ras,

we all said the same thing about Walker, though.


He (Walker) HAD leverage. Last year of contract, GB was weak at receiever. By signing Woodson they could withstand Harris holding out. I think Harris has much less leverage for a number of reasons. Age, contract length, and GB's depth chart.
GB's depth chart consist of Woodson who havent finised a season in at least 3 years and "let me grab you" Caroll who cant start on any NFL team. I think he has more leverage than fans may think. All this stuff you guys are saying was also said about McKinzie, and Walker. They both got what they wanted.

[Partial]

Carroll could be your second starting cornerback! :D

[Rastak]

Ras,

we all said the same thing about Walker, though.


He (Walker) HAD leverage. Last year of contract, GB was weak at receiever. By signing Woodson they could withstand Harris holding out. I think Harris has much less leverage for a number of reasons. Age, contract length, and GB's depth chart.
GB's depth chart consist of Woodson who havent finised a season in at least 3 years and "let me grab you" Caroll who cant start on any NFL team. I think he has more leverage than fans may think. All this stuff you guys are saying was also said about McKinzie, and Walker. They both got what they wanted.


I think Woodson will be ok. They will be weaker without Harris but Carroll actually played decently last year. GB has some young guys who could improve this year also. Plus, when rebuilding having two bad years in a row is a good thing. The fans hate it but it should be good in the long run.

[Spaulding]

I liked Tony's earlier post of potentially conceding some money tied to new incentives.

Based on the fact pretty much everyone in this thread agrees he is underpaid but signed a contract and should honor it, I see little risk to the Packers to including bonus money if he makes the pro-bowl and/or hits other career year incentives (i.e. 8 picks, 25 passes defended, etc.) along with a little more guaranteed money to include maybe next year's salary.

The guy has been a class act so far for the Pack and although I don't agree with the whole "I gotz to take care of my family and a few mil a year just ain't enough" - you have to admit in any workplace environment you'd be PO'd if the guy doing the same job next to you was making 2 to 3 times your salary.

With all this being said, if he flat out doesn't attend mandatory training camp with good will in mind then I recant my statements above and tell him to piss off.

[packrulz]

Carroll only had a couple penalties in the 2nd half of the season last year so he is improving. If he's cocky I think that's part of playing CB, you need to be, as long as you don't draw a flag. I think Harris is being paid average, if he wants to bitch that's fine, but I'd think he's a fool if he holds out. I'm suprised he didn't mention Driver's new contract. The Pack will be lucky to go 8-8 this year anyway. Go ahead Harris, hold out, TT will save some cash.

[Joemailman]

Does anyone know how much of a bonus he has left? We have his services cheap this year, and they continually increase until the end of the contract from here on out. I'd have no problems with cutting him after this season if his bonus is low enough. Chuck and Harris are temporary until Carroll, Hawkins, or Blackmon can step up, and I am confident one of those three will.

I don't think I'm being overzealous when I say we have a lot to look forward to at that position in the future. Blackmon, Hawkins, Horton and Carroll are all young and have shown flashes. Lets hope two of 'em can put it all together!!

After this season, Harris will have 2.625 million of his signing bonus left to be pro-rated. Can't imagine TT cutting him though. If things can't be worked out, Harris certainly has trade value.

[Homer Jay]

Start fining him from day one. Look into getting some of the signing bonus back for breaking the contract. Hope Carroll comes around.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I still don't think Walker had a whole lot of leverage. I think he left town because it benefited the Packers to get the pick and perform miracles with it. If he had decided to pull his crap after the draft, I think he'd have wound up with splinters in his behind.

Walker would have been fine with sitting on the bench and fulfilling his obligation with Green Bay. His leg isn't gonna be recovered in 2006 anyhow.

Wist posted somewhere that he thought the PAckers got short end of the stick in the Walker trade.

Packers got exactly what Walker is worth on the market. And trying to force Walker to play for Green Bay with the 2007 franchise tag just would lead to more bleeding. Thompson cut losses, best move available.

[Scott Campbell]

Funny how Karma works.

Yeah, funny.

Carolina did not match the offer for Manning, who was arrested for suspicion of assault Sunday night in Los Angeles after an altercation at a restaurant.

[Scott Campbell]

I liked Tony's earlier post of potentially conceding some money tied to new incentives.

That's like giving money to kidnappers. You'll just encourage others to do the same thing. The Al Harris situation is set up perfectly for the Packers to make a stand. Give him nothing. Nada. Zip.

We can limp along with Carroll far better than Al can limp along without his paycheck or his starting job if he pulls a Rosenhammy.

What's Al gonna do - sit till the end of the 09 season? Al's older and has many more years left on his contract than Walker did. He has far less leverage.

[woodbuck27]

Al Harris's language is clear. He got it clearly out that he's upset that the Packers are now, in his estimate, underpaying him in his current contract. He feels his ability to play the CB position in Green Bay isn't being recognized in accordance with the ink he gets, that holds him in high regard throughout league circles. Some rag rated him as the 12th best CB in the NFL. Funny but in Green Bay, a contract, may only be re-worked if you get out on the field and continue to demonstrate your REAL value, not proclaim such at poolside in Florida. I was missing your leadership and excellent ability and attitude in the OTA's.Why Al?

Al Harris feels that players such as Woodson and Kampman are getting far more than he, and he's as a result upset. His Contract doesn't pay him enough.He'll wait till the start of TC and see if TT shows him the money or he'll explore other options.

What options Al? Some screen testing for a hollywood movie? You'd certainly fill the bill in some 'Cry a River for Me' script.

Al Harris 'only wants to be treated fairly'.

"Gee Al - the fact that your now 32 year's old and have 'a CONTRACT' that runs another 4 years, isn't fair enough for you, at remaining base salaries of $1.5 million this year, $2.2 million in 2007, $2.85 million in 2008 and $3 million in 2009? Geeee."

"Oh now more light is shed on the matter. I see, 'it's all about the Family' now. . . and you'd like the money in those final two years ASAP, like soon . . .Oh this season. mmmmmm I'm getting it now Al."

"Well Al, I don't like your chances Ole Sod. Oh right . . .but you'll likely not show up at the start of TC . . . . unless something gives. Got ya."

"Sorry maan. . . but we're going to miss you Al, until someone steps up and takes your coveted place at right CB, and we hear from you, that you really love Green Bay,your teammates, the game and can't wait to get back with the team that YOU signed a CONTRACT, with at a rate of pay that certainly satisfied you at that time."

Now . . .what exactly are those options, that you may explore in your future Al, if you violate your contract with the Packers? I'm sure the Packers GM can explain to you the Packer Options, if you arn't back on the job at the end of July. Maybe you might advise your agent to talk to TT soon. Your saying way over the top too much, to stand you in any graces with 'the Packers'.

[Joemailman]

I sure am glad that Carrol is looking good in camp, he may have a job now.


I think the fact that Carroll is making strides in the right direction may be pushing Harris to make this move. Harris may have figured out this may be the last year the Packers will need him as a starter. Therefore, if he doesn't get the money now, he never will. Of course, if this is the case, Harris' problem is that Ted Thompson undoubtedly has figured it out as well.

[Scott Campbell]

I sure am glad that Carrol is looking good in camp, he may have a job now.


I think the fact that Carroll is making strides in the right direction may be pushing Harris to make this move. Harris may have figured out this may be the last year the Packers will need him as a starter. Therefore, if he doesn't get the money now, he never will. Of course, if this is the case, Harris' problem is that Ted Thompson undoubtedly has figured it out as well.

Or maybe he's worried (as others have speculated) that he's lost a step. Cash in now, or don't cash in at all.

[falco]

Harris played pretty subpar the last few games of the season, if anyone remembers. He was great the rest of the time though.

The problem is he really is screwed. With 4 years to go on his contract, I can't see him sitting out, I can't see the deal getting reworked, and I can't see a trade coming. Any one of those sets a bad precedent.

[ny10804]

I sure am glad that Carrol is looking good in camp, he may have a job now.


I think the fact that Carroll is making strides in the right direction may be pushing Harris to make this move. Harris may have figured out this may be the last year the Packers will need him as a starter. Therefore, if he doesn't get the money now, he never will. Of course, if this is the case, Harris' problem is that Ted Thompson undoubtedly has figured it out as well.

Or maybe he's worried (as others have speculated) that he's lost a step. Cash in now, or don't cash in at all.

Alshinard isn't in the best situation. At 31, his best days are behind hime, and after next year, he will begin his decline (or is it declination? or is that even a word?). His contract will end when he is 35, and he will not be getting any good offers (nor will he deserve at that point), combined with retirement lurking as old CBs have little or no place in the NFL.

All in all, it's now/next offseason or never. Unless he gets a bonus, he will never again command a significant deal.

I say give him a moderate bonus -- 250,000 -- as well as playing/Pro Bowl incentives. Pay the man! I could wait a couple more years till Ahmad is back in the starting lineup!

[Scott Campbell]

I say give him a moderate bonus -- 250,000 -- as well as playing/Pro Bowl incentives. Pay the man! I could wait a couple more years till Ahmad is back in the starting lineup!

Again. That's like giving money to kidnappers. You'll just encourage others to do the same thing.

Let the other players know that you'll only end up hurting yourself if you hold out.

[Scott Campbell]

Editorial from PFT:

HARRIS MIGHT SKIP CAMP

The Packers could be facing their second holdout in three seasons by a cornerback with long-ass hair.

In 2004, it was Mike McKenzie who skipped all offseason sessions, missed training camp, and finally reported early in the regular season. He eventually was traded to the Saints.

That same year, cornerback Al Harris signed a new six-year contract. Two seasons in, he wants more.

And although his agent previously has said that Harris, who has been absent for voluntary offseason workouts, will report for training camp, Harris is now signing a different tune.

"It's not 100%, that's for sure," Harris said, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. "I'd like to come and do my job, but everyone's got to be fair, too. It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out.

"I've got to do what's best for me and my family," Harris added. "And now we're on the clock. I'm not getting any younger, so I have to take a business approach to it." (Harris will be 32 on December 7.)

Under his current deal, Harris received $7 million in bonuses. His base salaries over the remainder of the contract are $1.5 million in 2006, $2.2 million in 2007, $2.85 million in 2008 and $3 million in 2009.

Now, he regrets the decision to commit himself to those numbers.

"I should have waited to see what the market dictated," he told the Journal-Sentinel. "But I didn't want to leave Green Bay and there's a lot of times you see guys price themselves right out of the league."

The fact that the Packers gave cornerback Charles Woodson a big-money deal probably has had a role in the current stance of the team's former No. 1 cover man. But, as a practical matter, Harris has little leverage. He's under contract for four more seasons, and he potentially faces a significant bonus forfeiture if he misses even one training camp practice -- depending on the specific language of his contract and whether and to what extent new CBA restrictions apply retroactively. (If Harris doesn't think that could happen to him, he should give his former teammate Mike McKenzie a call.)

So when Harris rolls out current king of the hackneyed cliche' -- "It is what it is" -- Harris needs to be sure he understands what the "is" really "is" before he "is" in position to be paying back a lot of money that already "is" in his bank account.

And if that happens, it won't be long before Mrs. Harris "is" knee deep in Al's ass.

[gureski]

Guarentee him some more of his contract and throw in int, tackle, prow bowl and Super Bowl incentives.

That means that he has goals so if he hits them more $$ and he is set with some $$ if he gets hurt.

Thats fair for a guy that has played lights out on our team and has been a team guy.

You're on the right track but you haven't hit it exactly. The answer to this dilemna is for the Packers to turn some of Harris's incentive bonus money into easy to achieve bonuses. You don't rework the deal. YOu can't set that precident but you can easily maneuver some bonus language so that he gets more money this year and the problem goes away.

In all honesty, moving bonus money around to give a guy a raise happens all the time in the NFL. It's not a big deal and I don't consider it re-doing a guys deal. It's just not at that level. It's just a tweak. The deal stays the same but you tweak some of the bonus language so a possible bonus turns into a probable bonus.

The Packers need to give on this one and put this rash of players demanding money behind them. They took stands with McKenzie and Walker and were right to do so. The difference with Harris is that Harris isn't demanding what those guys were (to my knowledge). RIght or wrong he wants a raise. On the field, Harris has earned a raise. Yeah, he should play out the deal he signed and he's demented to think he's not being treated fairly but he's obviously hurt by the money they gave Woodson and Kampman and if a little tweaking of bonus money in a season where the team has oodles of cap room is all it will take to shut him up then do it. That's best for the team. He was a team guy up to this point and he will more then likely earn whatever money you redirect his way. There really is no harm in redirecting bonus money so that he gets his raise.

It's a shame this is getting into the papers. THompson should've tweaked the bonus money sooner so cut this off.

IF Harris is demanding a full redo and not just a little bonus money moved around then you have to call his bluff and see if he no-shows training camp. You CANNOT redo contracts that have 4 years or more left on them and set precidents or else every yahoo on the team will constantly try to renegotiate.

So again...you don't redo the deal. YOu just tweak the bonus language. That should be enough to fix this whole thing.

[Scott Campbell]

So again...you don't redo the deal. YOu just tweak the bonus language. That should be enough to fix this whole thing.

That's a sensible win/win that I could live with.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I would hope that the GM would NEVER give a raise to a player who holds out. The GM should prevent holdouts by redoing contracts that are significantly out of line.

The error Thompson made with Walker was in not making an effort to prevent his initial holdout. (Well, if the reports that Thompson refused to negotiate are true, and you beleive as I do that Walker was underpaid.) Perhaps Thompson & Walker would not have been able to arrive at an agreement anyway. We only know that Walker's public, opening bargaining position was a very big number.

[ny10804]

I say give him a moderate bonus -- 250,000 -- as well as playing/Pro Bowl incentives. Pay the man! I could wait a couple more years till Ahmad is back in the starting lineup!

Again. That's like giving money to kidnappers. You'll just encourage others to do the same thing.

Let the other players know that you'll only end up hurting yourself if you hold out.

I'm sure that the players respect Al enough to understand his situation. Think about it, who would complain: KGB has a large deal, Pickett and Aaron just signed theirs, the other DTs have no business demanding a new deal, Nick Barnett is a free agent in 2007 and his contract will probably be extended this year, AJ Hawk and Abdul Hodge will be getting their deals shortly, Ben Taylor got his, C-Wood just signed his, Nick Collins, Roy Manning, and others are only one year players. On the defensive side of the ball, I think giving Al a bonus will have no ill effects.

[KYPack]

Guarentee him some more of his contract and throw in int, tackle, prow bowl and Super Bowl incentives.

That means that he has goals so if he hits them more $$ and he is set with some $$ if he gets hurt.

Thats fair for a guy that has played lights out on our team and has been a team guy.

You're on the right track but you haven't hit it exactly. The answer to this dilemna is for the Packers to turn some of Harris's incentive bonus money into easy to achieve bonuses. You don't rework the deal. YOu can't set that precident but you can easily maneuver some bonus language so that he gets more money this year and the problem goes away.

In all honesty, moving bonus money around to give a guy a raise happens all the time in the NFL. It's not a big deal and I don't consider it re-doing a guys deal. It's just not at that level. It's just a tweak. The deal stays the same but you tweak some of the bonus language so a possible bonus turns into a probable bonus.

The Packers need to give on this one and put this rash of players demanding money behind them. They took stands with McKenzie and Walker and were right to do so. The difference with Harris is that Harris isn't demanding what those guys were (to my knowledge). RIght or wrong he wants a raise. On the field, Harris has earned a raise. Yeah, he should play out the deal he signed and he's demented to think he's not being treated fairly but he's obviously hurt by the money they gave Woodson and Kampman and if a little tweaking of bonus money in a season where the team has oodles of cap room is all it will take to shut him up then do it. That's best for the team. He was a team guy up to this point and he will more then likely earn whatever money you redirect his way. There really is no harm in redirecting bonus money so that he gets his raise.

It's a shame this is getting into the papers. THompson should've tweaked the bonus money sooner so cut this off.

IF Harris is demanding a full redo and not just a little bonus money moved around then you have to call his bluff and see if he no-shows training camp. You CANNOT redo contracts that have 4 years or more left on them and set precidents or else every yahoo on the team will constantly try to renegotiate.

So again...you don't redo the deal. YOu just tweak the bonus language. That should be enough to fix this whole thing.

I dunno, G.

He's due to earn a cool million in LTBE bonus for '06 already.

If you change that, it's a redo.

He has 4 years left on his deal, so as you said, they can't redo it.

Maybe I'm missing something,

I think he'll be there when Woodson is, Harris is just trying to make his point.

[Scott Campbell]

Vasher returns to Bears practice without new deal
By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com

Absent from the Chicago Bears' on-field workouts the past two weeks because of dissatisfaction over his contract, Pro Bowl cornerback Nathan Vasher has returned for the final three days of organized activities, and has suggested that his boycott got the attention of team officials.

What it did not get Vasher, however, was the raise he was seeking. And it almost certainly earned him a demotion entering training camp.

Two other Bears starters, tailback Thomas Jones and Pro Bowl weakside linebacker Lance Briggs, were dropped on the depth chart by coach Lovie Smith because they skipped the voluntary workouts, even though both were on hand for a mandatory three-day minicamp. Vasher participated in the opening weeks of the organized team activities and the minicamp, but then missed the past two weeks of the club's voluntary practices.

In his absence, fourth-year veteran cornerback Ricky Manning Jr., signed by the Bears as a restricted free agent this spring and projected as the No. 1 nickel defender, has lined up at cornerback with the first unit. The cornerback on the left side remains Charles Tillman.

"For the time being," Vasher said, "I have to be content with my position."

At the root of Vasher's unrest is a contract his representatives claim makes him only the 131st highest paid cornerback in the league. Vasher, 24, has two seasons remaining on the four-year, $1.77 million contract that he signed as a fourth-round choice in the 2004 draft. He is due base salaries of $425,000 for 2006 and of $460,000 for 2007, although he could earn an "escalator" in the latter year. Vasher's agent has proposed a one-year extension that does not affect the 2006-07 base salaries.

General manager Jerry Angelo has steadfastly maintained the Bears have a policy against reworking a player's contract after only two seasons.

There is no denying Vasher has been a bargain for the Bears, earning $945,000 in bonuses and salaries in his first two seasons, and performing at a high level. In 32 appearances, including 22 starts, the former University of Texas standout has 87 tackles, 13 interceptions, 23 passes defensed, one forced fumble and one fumble recovery. In 15 starts in 2005, he registered eight interceptions and earned a Pro Bowl berth.

What he may have to re-earn now is the starting position that he claimed early last season when incumbent right cornerback Jerry Azumah was injured. Vasher said that, even with his contract situation unresolved, he will report to training camp on time next month.

"Coach Smith always has told us that, when the season begins, the best players will play, and I believe he'll continue to go by that," Vasher said. "Having a fair shot to start is all we can ask for. So if I have to win my way back out there, then that's just how it is."

Len Pasquarelli is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com.

[gureski]

I would hope that the GM would NEVER give a raise to a player who holds out. The GM should prevent holdouts by redoing contracts that are significantly out of line.

The error Thompson made with Walker was in not making an effort to prevent his initial holdout. (Well, if the reports that Thompson refused to negotiate are true, and you beleive as I do that Walker was underpaid.) Perhaps Thompson & Walker would not have been able to arrive at an agreement anyway. We only know that Walker's public, opening bargaining position was a very big number.

I don't think THompson made a mistake with Walker. YOu had a guy who had produced one year immediately knocking on the door for more money. He had to hold his ground on that one.

With Harris, you have a proven commodity and an established market for what he's worth. The only factor with Harris that is in the way is the fact that he signed the 6 year deal! You can't let a guy sign a long-term deal and then rip it up a couple years later or all the players will want to do this. The best thing he can do is rewrite some bonus language and if that's not enough for Harris then you have to go down the hard road once again. It's a damn shame but you can't let a guy redo a fair deal that he just signed a couple years ago. You can give an inch but you have to stand hard and hold against the mile.

[gureski]

Another point that's worth reiterating is that there is a difference between tweaking bonus language and redoing the entire deal. Tweaking bonus language happens all the time in the NFL. It's an easy way that teams work the cap and reward players. You write bonus language in....turn some things into easy to attain bonuses....it's done every year more then we know because in some cases the teams need these tools to stay under the cap.

With that said, you're not setting a precident if you redo the bonus language for Harris. That precident is already there and it's just not a big deal. You have to draw the line in redoing the deal. You draw the line in ripping up the old deal and replacing it with a new, more lucrative deal. You just can't let a guy sign a 6 year deal for a decent sum of money and then allow him to rip it up 2 years into it.

[MJZiggy]

Gureski, does that include adding major roster bonuses? Because according to the Wilde article that someone posted (that directly contradicts an article someone else posted) he wants 4-5 million dollar roster bonuses added and 1.2-1.5 million pro bowl incentives as well.

[woodbuck27]

Notes: Harris' threat handled carefully
McCarthy refuses to speak his mind

By TODD ROSIAK
trosiak@journalsentinel.com

Posted: June 21, 2006

Green Bay - There wasn't much reaction Wednesday from the Green Bay Packers' camp with regard to Al Harris, as the team wrapped up its 14th and final day of voluntary off-season practices.

Harris said Tuesday night that he'd consider not showing up for the start of training camp on July 28.

He signed a six-year, $18.635 million contract extension in September 2004 but has skipped all the team's voluntary workouts over the past few months to demonstrate his unhappiness with the deal.

Following practice in the Don Hutson Center, coach Mike McCarthy said he wasn't interested in publicly sparring with Harris.

"I'm not going to discuss contracts. We don't do that in the media. I don't believe in communicating through the media," he said. "All the conversations I've been a part of as far as Al Harris I've been told over and over again he's nothing but a true professional. He's always comes in shape, (been an) extremely hard worker and I don't think that's going to change."

The Packers have been without both their projected starting cornerbacks - Harris and Charles Woodson - throughout June.

Woodson, who signed a seven-year, $39.03 million deal with Green Bay in the off-season, did not show up last week or this week, despite McCarthy's hopes he might.

Skeleton crew: Aside from Harris, the Packers' secondary was also sans cornerbacks Jason Horton, WillBlackmon, Ahmad Carroll, Mike Hawkins and Jerron Wishom and safeties Mark Roman, Marquand Manuel, Marviel Underwood and Nick Collins on Wednesday.

That left them with just five defensive backs - cornerbacks Patrick Dendy and Therrian Fontenot and safeties TraBoger, Tyrone Culver and Atari Bigby.

"We were worried about it, obviously, because we slowed some things down and put some water breaks in between periods," said McCarthy. "But it's a great opportunity for all those guys and I think they had a good day."

Roll call: Quarterback Brett Favre was excused and left town Tuesday.

Running backs Ahman Green and Najeh Davenport, linebacker Tracy White, center Wayne Lucier, tight end BubbaFranks, wide receiver Robert Ferguson and defensive tackle Corey Williams were also absent.

Injured but present were running back Arliss Beach, tight end Garrett Cross, linebackers Brady Poppinga and NickBarnett, center Chris White and tackles Adrian Klemm and Chad Clifton.

Center Scott Wells and defensive tackle Colin Cole returned.

Injury update: McCarthy said he expected Clifton and Klemm to be ready to participate at the open of training camp.

Green and Davenport, meanwhile, he wasn't so sure about.

"I would say if we had to go play a game in training camp that I think those guys would be ready," he said. "We're just going to be smart on an individual basis."

McCarthy also said Poppinga appears to be ahead of schedule in his recovery from knee surgery.



From the June 22, 2006 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

[woodbuck27]

Gureski, does that include adding major roster bonuses? Because according to the Wilde article that someone posted (that directly contradicts an article someone else posted) he wants 4-5 million dollar roster bonuses added and 1.2-1.5 million pro bowl incentives as well.

Yup !

In September 2004, Harris signed a $18.635 million extension, which added five years onto his existing deal and contained $7 million in bonuses. Thus, Harris is under contract through 2009 and is scheduled to earn base salaries of $1.5 million this season, $2.2 million in '07, $2.85 million in '08 and $3 million in '09.

Asked if, with four years remaining on his contract, he's negotiating from a position of strength, Harris replied,

"Not really. But I think I've got a strong case from (the standpoint of) how I've played and what I'm asking for. I'm pretty sensitive to the general manager (Ted Thompson). He doesn't want everybody coming up there after they just signed a deal. I understand. But I'm not even asking for any money this year."

Instead, what Harris wants is a pair of roster bonuses - the first payable next March and the second payable in March 2008 - worth $4 to $5 million and incentive bonuses worth $1.25 to $1.5 million if he makes the Pro Bowl.

[Dabaddestbear]

Funny how Karma works.

Yeah, funny.

Carolina did not match the offer for Manning, who was arrested for suspicion of assault Sunday night in Los Angeles after an altercation at a restaurant.
Yeah you telling me...lol.

[Scott Campbell]

Funny how Karma works.

Yeah, funny.

Carolina did not match the offer for Manning, who was arrested for suspicion of assault Sunday night in Los Angeles after an altercation at a restaurant.
Yeah you telling me...lol.

I haven't read much on this lately. Do you and the folks in Chicago think he could do jail time? Wasn't he already on probation?

[woodbuck27]

Funny how Karma works.

Yeah, funny.

Carolina did not match the offer for Manning, who was arrested for suspicion of assault Sunday night in Los Angeles after an altercation at a restaurant.
Yeah you telling me...lol.

I haven't read much on this lately. Do you and the folks in Chicago think he could do jail time? Wasn't he already on probation?

It's no BIG deal Scott acording to Manning:

The court date to set a preliminary hearing for an assault charge on cornerback Ricky Manning Jr. was pushed from Wednesday to July 6. Manning has pleaded not guilty to the felony charge.

"I'm not really worried about the charge," Manning said.

[gureski]

Gureski, does that include adding major roster bonuses? Because according to the Wilde article that someone posted (that directly contradicts an article someone else posted) he wants 4-5 million dollar roster bonuses added and 1.2-1.5 million pro bowl incentives as well.

It can. Especially in cases where a team looking to rework the language for cap reasons. There was a great thread a year ago over at JS that talked about how the teams use certain bonus language to manipulate the cap.

In the case of Harris, moving pro-bowl bonuses into roster bonuses...regardless how much money that turns out to be, is the perfect example of what they could do for Harris without feeling like they've opened Pandora's Box. To create a multi-million dollar roster bonus meaning it's money that's not already written into the deal in some way shape or form is redoing the deal. I'm advocating they take money he's already got in writing and simply modify the language so that certain money that was only possible to attain would now be probable. I think if they did that this would blow over. He is in no position to get a redo or any money that's not already written into the deal. He's just looking for something and the tweaking of bonus language may be the answer for both parties to come away feeling good.

[Harlan Huckleby]

With Harris, you have a proven commodity and an established market for what he's worth. The only factor with Harris that is in the way is the fact that he signed the 6 year deal! You can't let a guy sign a long-term deal and

Oh hell, I don't care if HArris signed a 20 year deal yesterday. If his deal is way out of line, redo it.

Do you think Harris is greatly underpaid?

[MJZiggy]

(If Harris doesn't think that could happen to him, he should give his former teammate Mike McKenzie a call.)

So when Harris rolls out current king of the hackneyed cliche' -- "It is what it is" -- Harris needs to be sure he understands what the "is" really "is" before he "is" in position to be paying back a lot of money that already "is" in his bank account.

And if that happens, it won't be long before Mrs. Harris "is" knee deep in Al's ass.

I believe I've made my position on PFT pretty clear, but this part is funny.

[Dabaddestbear]

Funny how Karma works.

Yeah, funny.

Carolina did not match the offer for Manning, who was arrested for suspicion of assault Sunday night in Los Angeles after an altercation at a restaurant.
Yeah you telling me...lol.

I haven't read much on this lately. Do you and the folks in Chicago think he could do jail time? Wasn't he already on probation?

It's no BIG deal Scott acording to Manning:

The court date to set a preliminary hearing for an assault charge on cornerback Ricky Manning Jr. was pushed from Wednesday to July 6. Manning has pleaded not guilty to the felony charge.

"I'm not really worried about the charge," Manning said.
Some fans think he should do time, others dont care if he beat an Old lady on her death bed as long as he produces on the field. I have come to realize a long time ago fans will defend and/or forget players as long as they produce on the field. With that said I have beat up a many of cats in my day for mouthing off and it was always desrved no matter what they tell someboady else. Did I deserve jail time because of that? No.

If every time we wupped somebody we got sent to jail there would be plenty of empty football stadiums on sunday, especially after a lost by our favorite team and some irratating mockery by some geek fan of the oppising team in the bar beside you. :twisted:

[woodbuck27]

"I have beat up a many of cats in my day" Dabaddestbear

That's it !! :arrow: Your outa here :arrow: now !

We do NOT. . . . condone cruelty to animals on this Forum.

Bears should pick on bears. . . not :twisted: cats :twisted:

[HarveyWallbangers]

From Bears Camp:

Unhappy with his contract and frustrated by persistent trade rumors, RB Thomas Jones stayed away from voluntary workouts, prompting speculation that Jones was digging in for a lengthy holdout. But he arrived at Halas Hall as scheduled on June 1 to undergo a physical before the start of a three-day minicamp. Jones still wants his contract addressed. He switched agents after the season, from Tom Condon to Drew Rosenhaus, and was not taking part in the offseason program.

Here's what I don't get: Jones was a high draft pick with the Cardinals. For many years, he was basically a bust. He did get cut a couple of times, but he also made more than his worth because the cap hit would have been too large for the Cards to cut him sooner. I don't think Jones gave back any of that money. I can see a player wanting to renegotiate a REALLY bad contract, but Jones should feel lucky that he found the right situation, and realize he's been paid more than he's produced in his career. Sure, teams can cut players, but the players signing bonus is the guaranteed money, so they have no right to call foul a couple of years later when their base salary is low.