NFC North - A new overview

[Rastak]

This is a division that features new head coaches at three of the four franchises. The only team that seems to have continuity and stability is Chicago, which returns all 22 starters from a year ago, in addition to the same coaching staff. The Bears also have the easiest schedule in the NFL.

New Minnesota coach Brad Childress has a great roster on paper and the Vikings were very active in free agency. But will they jell? New Detroit head coach Rod Marinelli is a tough guy who will bring discipline to a non-disciplined team. But will that be enough, even with a pretty talented roster? Green Bay still has Brett Favre, but the Packers also have a rookie head coach and marginal personnel on both sides of the ball.

This division should be dominated by the talented Bears and 2005 NFL Coach of the Year Lovie Smith. We will know early how the NFC North will shake out as Chicago opens the season with Green Bay, Detroit and Minnesota. The Bears should win the division, but Minnesota is very dangerous and Detroit and Green Bay are capable of playing better than expected, which adds up to a very competitive race in 2006.



Chicago Bears
Obviously, Chicago feels it has the pieces in place to contend for the Super Bowl. The Bears have a built-in advantage of the easiest schedule in the NFL, as their 2006 opponents had a combined record of 114-142 in 2005. Rex Grossman returns at quarterback and he is competent and confident. However, if he stumbles at all, veteran Brian Griese easily can step in and give direction to this run-oriented offense. That's a far cry from 2005, when rookie Kyle Orton was thrown into a Bears' starting role even though he wasn't ready.
Thomas Jones
Running back
Chicago Bears

Profile
2005 SEASON STATISTICS
Att Yds Avg Long TD
314 1335 4.3 42 9


The duo of Thomas Jones and Cedric Benson should give the Bears a potent run game; both backs could get 200 carries in 2006. The biggest challenge for Chicago is to become more explosive on offense and create more big plays. In all of their five losses a year ago, the Bears scored 10 points or less and averaged only 43 yards per offensive play.

With Grossman at quarterback they will open up the offense and won't be as predictable as they were a year ago. A strong run game, better decision-making at QB, and a good play-action package should add up to a dramatic improvement in offensive production.

Defensively, the Bears will be rock solid. They return all of their starters from a year ago, including five Pro Bowlers. This was the No. 2 total defense in the NFL and the No. 1 scoring defense in 2005. Led by middle linebacker Brian Urlacher, the Bears' entire defense has great range and speed. It plays the Cover 2 scheme to perfection and is a great attacking unit. The scary thing about the Bears' defense is that it is young, with no starters over 29, so it should be good for years to come.

This is a very confident group of players and coaches who expect to win with a strong run game and defense. The Bears might not be flashy, but they know what it takes to win games.



Minnesota Vikings
This was a good football team a year ago that seemed to lack discipline. New head coach Brad Childress will establish an environment of mental toughness and stress cutting down on the mistakes that haunted the Vikings in 2005. They were horrible on third down on both sides of the ball, finishing 30th in offensive conversions and 31st in defensive efficiency on third downs. That led to marginal time of possession and forced a good defense to be on the field too much.
In 2006, Minnesota will run a West Coast offense that is run-oriented with Childress calling the plays out of two-back sets. Defensively, coordinator Mike Tomlin will bring the Cover 2 defense from Tampa Bay. Both schemes appear to fit the Vikings' personnel very well. A big key will be quarterback Brad Johnson. If a revamped offensive line, led by All-Pro guard Steve Hutchinson from Seattle, can protect him, this can be a versatile, but safe offense capable of ball control.

Chester Taylor
Running back
Minnesota Vikings

Profile
2005 SEASON STATISTICS
Att Yds Avg Long TD
117 487 4.2 52 0


Former Ravens running back Chester Taylor finally gets a chance to start, but he's never had over 160 carries in any NFL campaign. This will be a physical and efficient offense designed to chew up the clock and operate with improved discipline from a year ago.

The defensive personnel is better than the production they showed in 2005. The Vikings have an excellent defensive line rotation, led by mammoth tackles Pat Williams and Kevin Williams, and have a rock solid secondary, led by free safety Darren Sharper and cornerback Antoine Winfield. There is some work to do at linebacker, but this unit has depth and good speed. The Vikings will concentrate on getting more pressure on opposing quarterbacks (only 34 sacks in 2005) and concentrate on not giving up big plays and having coverage breakdowns (22nd in pass defense in 2005).

Minnesota was the most aggressive organization in the NFL this offseason. They had $31.5 million in salary-cap room with which to work, and owner Zygi Wilf let them spend it all on 10 quality free agents. In addition to the new players, Childress has the largest coaching staff in the NFL, with 21 assistants. The organization believes that the 9-7 team from a year ago badly underachieved and anything less than a solid playoff run will be a disappointment.



Detroit Lions
Under Marinelli, things will be different than they were under Steve Mariucci. Marinelli is a strong disciplinarian who will demand dedication and toughness from his players. If they don't conform to his system, they will be gone. This is a roster with good, but underachieving talent -- especially on offense. So how do they fix an offense that was ranked 26th in passing, 26th in rushing and 27th in first downs and one that produced only 29 touchdowns in 2006?
Enter ex-St. Louis head coach Mike Martz, who will run a much more balanced and complicated offense. He will install a sophisticated passing game, featuring a lot of deep crossing routes by his wide receivers, with backs and tight ends utilizing underneath dump-offs and safety-valve passes. He also will utilize a run game with a lot of draws and isolation plays by running back Kevin Jones -- usually against soft nickel and dime defenses.

The offensive line is not pretty, but it is made up of tough, blue collar guys who will get the job done. Success on offense will come down to which quarterback, Jon Kitna and Josh McCown, can run this offense without a lot of mistakes and whether an underachieving receiving corps of Charles Rogers, Roy Williams and Mike Williams can handle the intricate route-running demands of Martz's offense.

Defensively, new coordinator Donnie Henderson is a vocal guy who demands speed and toughness from his players. Detroit will employ the Cover 2 with an emphasis on eliminating mistakes and the big plays that plagued it a year ago. The linebackers are fast and active, but the secondary is just average and needs the benefit of a solid pass rush for protection.

This is a better roster than a lot of people realize, but the Lions have not played with any sense of urgency. To establish an improved atmosphere the Lions signed 15 free agents this offseason, and most of them are journeyman-type players with average skills but great work habits and attention to detail. Marinelli is counting on this influx of his kind of guys to improve the practice habits and competitiveness of his talented, young underachievers.

The philosophy for Detroit in 2006 will be to play sound on both sides of the ball, along with being more physical. Expect continued turnover in personnel by Marinelli and his staff as they try to put together the right group of players to carry out the plan. Detroit might not be a playoff contender in 2006, but it won't be the soft pushover it has been in the past.



Green Bay Packers
The Packers enter the 2006 season with the weakest personnel in the division, a new and untested head coach, and a future Hall of Fame quarterback who is coming off the most uneven season of his career. If you are a Green Bay fan you have to look long and hard for positive signs.
It all starts with Brett Favre, who returns for his 16th season. Despite his flaws, he still is one of the most exciting players in the league. He still can make all the throws and his leadership and competitiveness are legendary -- but he must cut down on his mistakes. In 2005, he threw an amazing 29 interceptions against 20 touchdowns and the Packers' offense also lost 15 fumbles. A lot of the offensive problems were due to a rash of key injuries and a glaring lack of playmakers.

The problem for this organization is that it did virtually nothing in free agency to add talent. However, to be fair, the front office did a nice job of re-signing some of its own key players, including backs Ahman Green and Najeh Davenport. To cut down on mistakes and also get more production from a 30th-ranked rushing offense in 2005, new coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski is installing a new zone-blocking scheme and the players really seem to be buying into it.

The key for success offensively will be for new head coach Mike McCarthy to simplify the offense and make easier reads for Favre. The Packers' offense will feature a lot of slants and crossing routes with fewer vertical throws.

Defensively, the Packers played better than their talent level a year ago under coordinator Jim Bates. With virtually no stars on defense, Green Bay finished seventh in total defense and led the league in passing yards allowed per game. Bates is gone, but the Packers will retain his aggressive defensive schemes that feature a variety of blitzes and a lot of press coverages.

The front office did a good job of upgrading talent on the defensive side of the ball. The Packers added free agents Charles Woodson (defensive back), Ben Leber (linebacker) and Ryan Pickett (defensive tackle). They also selected playmaking linebacker A.JHawk in the first round of the draft. This will be a faster and more active defense with better coverage skills than a year ago.

Coaching will be a big key to the success of this team in 2006. McCarthy has never been in this role before -- on any level -- and both coordinators, Jagodzinski and Bob Sanders, have never been in that role on the NFL level.

However, before Packers fans give up on the 2006 season, we should remember that this team lost eight games in 2005 by seven points or less. If Green Bay can cut down on turnovers, some of those narrow losses could turn into wins. With Favre, anything is possible.

Gary Horton has been a football talent evaluator for more than 30 years. He spent 10 years in the NFL and 10 years at the college level before launching a private scouting firm called "The War Room."

[HarveyWallbangers]

The front office did a good job of upgrading talent on the defensive side of the ball. The Packers added free agents Charles Woodson (defensive back), Ben Leber (linebacker) and Ryan Pickett (defensive tackle). They also selected playmaking linebacker A.JHawk in the first round of the draft. This will be a faster and more active defense with better coverage skills than a year ago.

Ben Leber? Funny! The Cover 2 fits the Vikings personnel well, but the the Packers players are only buying into the zone blocking scheme? How about the zone blocking scheme fits the Packers personnel well?

This guy has to be a Vikings fan.
:D

On a serious note, is any team in this division any good? I don't buy into Chicago. They'll look like they did last year, IMHO, but they'll probably lose a couple more close games. They look like a 9-7 team to me. Minnesota, Detroit, and Green Bay look like 8-8 teams, at best, to me.

[Rastak]

The front office did a good job of upgrading talent on the defensive side of the ball. The Packers added free agents Charles Woodson (defensive back), Ben Leber (linebacker) and Ryan Pickett (defensive tackle). They also selected playmaking linebacker A.JHawk in the first round of the draft. This will be a faster and more active defense with better coverage skills than a year ago.

Ben Leber? Funny! The Cover 2 fits the Vikings personnel well, but the the Packers players are only buying into the zone blocking scheme? How about the zone blocking scheme fits the Packers personnel well?

This guy has to be a Vikings fan.
:D

On a serious note, is any team in this division any good? I don't buy into Chicago. They'll look like they did last year, IMHO, but they'll probably lose a couple more close games. They look like a 9-7 team to me. Minnesota, Detroit, and Green Bay look like 8-8 teams, at best, to me.


I think Chicago will be very solid. Det, Min and GB I have no idea. I think we'll be better able to judge late in preseason.

[BigDmoney]

How does Chicago get the easiest shedule? I'm so sick of these bears. Rememeber about 4 years ago when they had that fluke 12-4 team and got bumped right away. Last years team was a carbon copy of that team. Some people were comparing their defense to the 85' bears and funny they get bumped right away.......again. This team is a solid team but by no means a dominant team. The packers and Vikings will give them all they can handle and more.

[Tony Oday]

CHI- Solid defense that prays that they have an offense to back them up. Bears stayed virtually injury free on defense last year. Over Achieving team that will come back to earth this year.

Playoff bound but one and done 10-6

DET- A mess that needs to be redone ground up. O line cant stop the local HS from planting Kitna/McCown. WR that are out of shape and lazy. It will take two years for this team to 'buy' into the offense and at that time Millen and co. should be out of jobs.

basement of the North 5-11

MIN- Power run game. It is a new experiment in MIN to run this type of offense but with Hutch, Mckinnie, healthy Birk and lead truck Richardson, I wouldn't want to be a defender on the other side of that. Chester Taylor HAS to pan out for this to work. Johnson is the ONLY QB on the team. If he goes down you could see Jeff George or Vinny Test back here and that is a death sentence for any offense. WR is a weakness when it used to be the best part of the offense. MIN is banking on WIlliamson beating the odds and becoming productive in his 2nd year. Robinson stayed out of trouble last year and is now penned in as the #1 guy. There is talent here but isn't going to make the north draft DBs out of fear. Wiggins is a good short to medium threat that can fricken hurdle people just love that!

Defense one of the best defensive lines in football IMO. They HAVE to be because the LBs need to be protected because they are all projects except for Leber. DBs they are going to be playing Sharper closer to the line which will result in the nagging injuries that slowed him in his last two years in GB. Tank williams a great pick up with a solid corner in Winfield and an overrated one that may have his confidence shattered in Smoot. Defense will HAVE to be good to great for this team to win.

Good Chance if they stay healthy to win a Wild Card but if you are wearing purple don't count on it. 8-8

GB- One of the best QBs coming back again with more questions on offense than a SAT. Driver is a known quantity as well as the two tackles but other than that Franks is coming off an injury riddled year and the two year rule applies to Green and Davenport. The young interior line needs to gel and Gado and Herron NEED to step up for this team to be active on the offensive side of the ball.

Defensive line got a Grady Jackson upgrade in Pickett and this is do it or get out for many D linemen. Kamp and KGB need to provide some pass rush and motgomery should be spelling KGB on running plays. LB should be a solid unit with Stud A.J. Hawk and Nick Barnett along with the best guy out of a talented group at strong side. DBs are set aswell as Carrol seems to have the grab ass out of him, Harris will be back with Woodson the top three corners. Collins and Manuel are two good young safeties with veteran help in Roman.

The Packers will test the theory that def. wins championships. 9-7 Wild Card winners in Favres second to last year.

[Partial]

If Hodge gets on the field this year and they start Barny on the strong-side, watch out. Hodge = Lofa2

[Dabaddestbear]

How does Chicago get the easiest shedule? I'm so sick of these bears. Rememeber about 4 years ago when they had that fluke 12-4 team and got bumped right away. Last years team was a carbon copy of that team. Some people were comparing their defense to the 85' bears and funny they get bumped right away.......again. This team is a solid team but by no means a dominant team. The packers and Vikings will give them all they can handle and more.
Last years team was not a carbon copy. They won games because they played hard as a team. That last team had the ball bounce their way more times than not. "Some" Packers fans hate to admit the BEars being any good.

[Rastak]

How does Chicago get the easiest shedule? I'm so sick of these bears. Rememeber about 4 years ago when they had that fluke 12-4 team and got bumped right away. Last years team was a carbon copy of that team. Some people were comparing their defense to the 85' bears and funny they get bumped right away.......again. This team is a solid team but by no means a dominant team. The packers and Vikings will give them all they can handle and more.
Last years team was not a carbon copy. They won games because they played hard as a team. That last team had the ball bounce their way more times than not. "Some" Packers fans hate to admit the BEars being any good.


Baddest Bear, he's a Viking fan. I agree with you by the way. It's NOT the same team. Lots more talent.

[Partial]

I agree, I think they're going to be really good. Wasn't mike brown out most of last year too? Since Lovie's been there I think they've taken a really good approach to being good for an extender period of time. Build the trenches with quality players, and hope to hit on an offensive star to put them over the top.

If they hit on either a quarterback or a receiver in the next 2-3 years, watch out. They're going to be a tough, tough team then.

[Bossman641]

The Bears' D is good but it is certainly not all it was made out to be for the first 12 games last season. Both of their corners are only average and can be beat. They had very good luck on that side of the ball last year with regards to injuries.

Four our sake, I hope that Lance Briggs holds out and tries to stir up some trouble in CHI.

[Dabaddestbear]

The Bears' D is good but it is certainly not all it was made out to be for the first 12 games last season. Both of their corners are only average and can be beat. They had very good luck on that side of the ball last year with regards to injuries.

Four our sake, I hope that Lance Briggs holds out and tries to stir up some trouble in CHI.
Yeah, one of those corners went to the probowl so I would say he is more than average. And they had injuries last year(more on offense than defense) but they still found ways to win. Thats what a TEAM does. The leader of the defense Mike Brown was injured most of the season yet they still rose to the occasion. Your Bias views shines through.

[Partial]

Yeah dude, Vasher is amazing. One of the best corners in the league.

The D is only gonna get better with MBrown. He's a balla!

[Bossman641]

The Bears' D is good but it is certainly not all it was made out to be for the first 12 games last season. Both of their corners are only average and can be beat. They had very good luck on that side of the ball last year with regards to injuries.

Four our sake, I hope that Lance Briggs holds out and tries to stir up some trouble in CHI.
Yeah, one of those corners went to the probowl so I would say he is more than average. And they had injuries last year(more on offense than defense) but they still found ways to win. Thats what a TEAM does. The leader of the defense Mike Brown was injured most of the season yet they still rose to the occasion. Your Bias views shines through.

Vasher is very good but he is hardly a shutdown corner. I wouldn't rate him as one of the top 6-7 corners in the league.

But if you really feel he is one of the top 5 corners in the league than do you think the Bears should pay him like one? I'm interested to see what happens with Jones, Briggs, and Vasher.

[Partial]

They'll pay Briggs and Vasher, and let Jones walk.

[BigDmoney]

How does Chicago get the easiest shedule? I'm so sick of these bears. Rememeber about 4 years ago when they had that fluke 12-4 team and got bumped right away. Last years team was a carbon copy of that team. Some people were comparing their defense to the 85' bears and funny they get bumped right away.......again. This team is a solid team but by no means a dominant team. The packers and Vikings will give them all they can handle and more.
Last years team was not a carbon copy. They won games because they played hard as a team. That last team had the ball bounce their way more times than not. "Some" Packers fans hate to admit the BEars being any good.


Baddest Bear, he's a Viking fan. I agree with you by the way. It's NOT the same team. Lots more talent.


What i was saying is that the bears last year, like the bears of about 4 years ago, weren't nearly as good as their record implied. They too got bumped from the playoffs right away. Yes i think that last years team was much more talented, but the results were almost identicle.

[Rastak]

How does Chicago get the easiest shedule? I'm so sick of these bears. Rememeber about 4 years ago when they had that fluke 12-4 team and got bumped right away. Last years team was a carbon copy of that team. Some people were comparing their defense to the 85' bears and funny they get bumped right away.......again. This team is a solid team but by no means a dominant team. The packers and Vikings will give them all they can handle and more.
Last years team was not a carbon copy. They won games because they played hard as a team. That last team had the ball bounce their way more times than not. "Some" Packers fans hate to admit the BEars being any good.


Baddest Bear, he's a Viking fan. I agree with you by the way. It's NOT the same team. Lots more talent.


What i was saying is that the bears last year, like the bears of about 4 years ago, weren't nearly as good as their record implied. They too got bimped from the playoffs right away. Yes i think that last years team was much more talented, but the results were almost identicle.


Bigd, they have one thing now they didn't 4 years ago....a good coach.
IMHO.


edit: I'm not trying to turn this into a Bears lovefest, just saying they have a right to be confident going into the season and I personally think they'll do quite well.


BTW: I'm in Chicago this week and no, that's not why I'm giving the Bears some love.....LOL.....

[woodbuck27]

How does Chicago get the easiest shedule? I'm so sick of these bears. Rememeber about 4 years ago when they had that fluke 12-4 team and got bumped right away. Last years team was a carbon copy of that team. Some people were comparing their defense to the 85' bears and funny they get bumped right away.......again. This team is a solid team but by no means a dominant team. The packers and Vikings will give them all they can handle and more.
Last years team was not a carbon copy. They won games because they played hard as a team. That last team had the ball bounce their way more times than not. "Some" Packers fans hate to admit the BEars being any good.


Baddest Bear, he's a Viking fan. I agree with you by the way. It's NOT the same team. Lots more talent.


What i was saying is that the bears last year, like the bears of about 4 years ago, weren't nearly as good as their record implied. They too got bimped from the playoffs right away. Yes i think that last years team was much more talented, but the results were almost identicle.


Bigd, they have one thing now they didn't 4 years ago....a good coach.
IMHO.


edit: I'm not trying to turn this into a Bears lovefest, just saying they have a right to be confident going into the season and I personally think they'll do quite well.


BTW: I'm in Chicago this week and no, that's not why I'm giving the Bears some love.....LOL.....

I'll not hand it all to 'the Bears 'just based on last seasons great effort'. ARE THEY FOR REAL ?

It's really a wait and see situation for all the teams in the NFCN. I can see a possible dog fight for top spot if the Packers get it together, but today that is . . . a HUGE if.

It could well be 'the Bears' to take top spot, but right now my money is on the Vikings, as they made a huge leap on the OL. The biggest ? mark for the Vikings is at QB, as I see it.

That remains the case for all the teams in the NFCN ( a ? at QB) except for 'the Packers', as Favre will come back with all he is and has. He just needs something. . .something to work with on OUR offence.

[BigDmoney]

i agree woodbuck that the vikings will be stronger and that's not just because I'm a, gulp, vikings fan. Even though i don't think they are as good as anybody says, i still they think they are the strongest in a weak division. I see the purple as a 88/9-7 team but it may take a year to complety jell with all the new faces and a new system. The packa re just way to hard to predict this year. they can't go anywhere but up, it's just a matter of how high they can climb.

[Harlan Huckleby]

i agree woodbuck that the vikings will be stronger and that's not just because I'm a, gulp, vikings fan.

I think we have enough Vikings fans on the board now to form a little caucus, or support group.

[Rastak]

i agree woodbuck that the vikings will be stronger and that's not just because I'm a, gulp, vikings fan.

I think we have enough Vikings fans on the board now to form a little caucus, or support group.

Yea it's 3 at this point, correct? A voting block. Maybe the Bears fan would join....."the enemy of my enemy is my friend" sort of thing?

[Scott Campbell]

Last years team was not a carbon copy. They won games because they played hard as a team. That last team had the ball bounce their way more times than not. "Some" Packers fans hate to admit the BEars being any good.


You'd have a much stronger case if Carolina hadn't exposed the Bears as frauds. An impressive regular season that earned them home field after a bye week was washed away in 60 minutes of uninspired football and a midget that Al Harris didn't seem to have any problems shutting down.

The Bears have a fine defensive roster, but their offense doesn't scare anybody. And the Bears signed a CB that could end up doing jail time, and at best has questionable character issues hanging over his head. I'm not sure what that says about the organization, or does to team chemistry.

Add to that the first place schedule and lofty frontrunner status, and Bear fans have just as much to worry about as Packer fans. The Packers aren't expected to do anything this year. First year coach. The pressure is off.

[SD GB fan]

bears have the easiet schedule ON PAPER cos the nfc north plays the afc east (bills and jets), nfc west (cardinals, 49ers, rams) and the rest of the nfc north (lions and packers) twice. but i expect them to struggle with the schedule more than predicted cos a lot of teams improved.

[Joemailman]

The Bears have to considered the favorite because in addition to the fact they are the defending champs, they are the only team that is not starting over with a new coach. This should allow them to get off to a better start that any of the other teams. However, if they struggle early, and it becomes a situation where 9-7 can win the division, anything is possible.

[ny10804]

I think he (the writer) is underestimating our D.

The starters:

Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila :: The man has bulked up, about 10 pounds of muscle, and may actually help in the run-game. Also, the increase in talent around him should help is pass-rushing opprotunities.

Ryan Pickett :: Unbelievably, he fits the hole Gravy Jackson has left. Stout against the run and quick, he fits this D very nicely.

Kenderick Allen/Corey Williams/Cullen Jenkins/Colin Cole :: It is my belief that the Pack has an outstanding DT core. All of this players are good against the run (except Cullen, who is the pass rush specialist). These four plus Pickett will all get some snaps, and will keep the DTs fresh and ready to go.

Aaron Kampman :: Hard working, large, good against the run, decent pass rusher. This man should be the unspoken leader of the D-Line.

AJ Hawk :: Perfect size, great speed, great quickness, play-making ability. Despite being a rook, pretty much anyone right now could do better than Paris Lenon did last year (go back to the XFL! aka the Lions).

Nick Barnett :: The rock of the LB core, 25 and getting better, will do better with better talent to his left and right. I'd call him a franchise player.

Roy Manning/Ben Taylor/Brady Poppinga/Abdul Hodge :: This spot is a wild card. Can Ben repeat what he did last year? Can Brady hold down a starter's role? Is Roy the real thing? Can Abdul play the outside? Nevertheless, it is a good problem to be having.

Charles Woodson :: Pushes the weak link of the D out: Ahmad "grabby smurf" Carroll. If he can heal from his leg injury, you can count on the #1 WR having a bad game. He and Al will benefit from each other's prescence.

Alshinard Harris :: A #1 CB on about 20 teams in the league, he can lock down any WR (sans Randy Moss). More balls will be thrown his way due to Chuck, and will have more picks and knocked down balls. Let's hope he doens't hold out!

Nick Collins :: One of the future cornerstones of the D, this young man is a stud. With a year under his belt and an upgraded secondary, he will be in great position to surpass what he did last year (which was great).

Marquand Manuel :: My dog could play better SS than Mark Roman. It's almost getting cliche, but as soon as Manuel came out of the game, the Steelers started scoring. Either way, he is an upgrade and does his job well.


I think this D has TONS of potential.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Mike Brown played most of the year last year. Outside of Grossman, the Bears were fortunate on the injury front. Vasher is a playmaker and solid, but he isn't an elite corner. He was the nickelback on a defense that got a lot of pressure, and he got a lot of opportunities to make plays.

Defensively, the one area that the Bears could improve, ironically, is corner. Charles Tillman was a stud his rookie year. I expect a bounce back year from him. He wasn't special last year.

IMHO, Griese is a better QB than Grossman. I think Grossman is fraudalent. Griese is the guy that scares me for that team. He could provide decent QB play.

[Bossman641]

Mike Brown played most of the year last year. Outside of Grossman, the Bears were fortunate on the injury front. Vasher is a playmaker and solid, but he isn't an elite corner. He was the nickelback on a defense that got a lot of pressure, and he got a lot of opportunities to make plays.

Defensively, the one area that the Bears could improve, ironically, is corner. Charles Tillman was a stud his rookie year. I expect a bounce back year from him. He wasn't special last year.

IMHO, Griese is a better QB than Grossman. I think Grossman is fraudalent. Griese is the guy that scares me for that team. He could provide decent QB play.

I dunno, the Bears gave Tillman a lot of help over the top his rookie year. That's why he had a good first year. Bears fans hyped him to no end, orgasming over the mere mention of his name. OH PEANUT TILLMAN!!!

Last year he fell back down to earth, the level he belongs at. It was fun seeing Bear fans turn on him so quickly. He is what he is, a decent cornerback who is very susceptible to big plays.

Like I said, Vasher is good but he is certainly no shut-down corner. The Bears' D is still susceptible to the pass. Is Ricky Manning Jr gonna help that? Hmm, not unless the opposing WR is some computer geek messing around with his laptop.

Jackass

[Dabaddestbear]

Mike Brown played most of the year last year. Outside of Grossman, the Bears were fortunate on the injury front. Vasher is a playmaker and solid, but he isn't an elite corner. He was the nickelback on a defense that got a lot of pressure, and he got a lot of opportunities to make plays.

Defensively, the one area that the Bears could improve, ironically, is corner. Charles Tillman was a stud his rookie year. I expect a bounce back year from him. He wasn't special last year.

IMHO, Griese is a better QB than Grossman. I think Grossman is fraudalent. Griese is the guy that scares me for that team. He could provide decent QB play.
Once again Harvey you speak half truths, but the football gods will spare your spiritual sport soul for now. Brown played here and there last year but was hurt since week 2. I agree Vasher isnt an elite CB but how many can say they are in the NFL today? Oh yeah, Vasher wasnt a nickle back. He was the starting CB opposite Tillman after week 1 or 2. He was a nickle back his rookie year. Tillman was a stud his rookie year because the rules that exist today wasnt in play when he first came into the league. His style of play has always been physical in short space now that the league changed the rules he seems to not have made the adjustment in his style of play. result has been...."Steve Smith for 6!!" :cry: FS I believe is the weakest link on the Defense though.
I think Grossman and Griese will make for a solid one two punch since chances are whoever starts will get injured and not finish the season.

[GrnBay007]

Bears schedule - my prediction

Sep 10 @Green Bay -L
Sep 17 Detroit - W
Sep 24 @Minnesota - L
Oct 1 Seattle -L
Oct 8 Buffalo - W
Oct 16 @Arizona - L
Week 7 BYE
Oct 29 San Francisco - W
Nov 5 Miami - L
Nov 12 @N.Y. Giants -L
Nov 19 @N.Y. Jets - W
Nov 26 @New England - L
Dec 3 Minnesota -W
Dec 11 @St. Louis - W
Dec 17 Tampa Bay - W
Dec 24 @Detroit - W
Dec 31 Green Bay - L

8-8 NFC North is up for grabs. I did have a L for Tampa....but since it's a home game, gave them the W to make it 8-8. :D



-

[Dabaddestbear]

Bears schedule - my prediction

Sep 10 @Green Bay -L w
Sep 17 Detroit - W w
Sep 24 @Minnesota - L L
Oct 1 Seattle -L L
Oct 8 Buffalo - W w
Oct 16 @Arizona - L w
Week 7 BYE
Oct 29 San Francisco - W w
Nov 5 Miami - L w
Nov 12 @N.Y. Giants -L L
Nov 19 @N.Y. Jets - W w
Nov 26 @New England - L w
Dec 3 Minnesota -W w
Dec 11 @St. Louis - W w
Dec 17 Tampa Bay - W w
Dec 24 @Detroit - W w
Dec 31 Green Bay - L w Yes, it will be a sweep again.

8-8 NFC North is up for grabs. I did have a L for Tampa....but since it's a home game, gave them the W to make it 8-8. :D

-
I imediately went straight to the games against GB to see how much of a homer you were. After I saw that for some odd reason that you have a weak GB team beating the Bears twice I couldnt take anything else you said seriously. Although this is too early to make overall predictions for the exact win lost total i will take a stab at your post just for the heck of it.

[RashanGary]

The Packers are going to be much better. I still think the Bears have the North locked down for at least one more year.

With that being said, Favre takes Bears games seriously and I think the Packers will win at least one. If Favre stays healthy and comes back, I think this young team could compete for a championship. Not quite yet but I think there will be some real gains this year.

I think the Bears are a legit 11-5/12-4 team. I don't think GB is as far off as many seem to think though. It looks to me like an 8-8 season but that is just a guess.

[Fritz]

"Ben Leber"? Who is Ben Leber? I didn't know the Packers had a Jewish linebacker.

[Dabaddestbear]

The Bears' D is good but it is certainly not all it was made out to be for the first 12 games last season. Both of their corners are only average and can be beat. They had very good luck on that side of the ball last year with regards to injuries.

Four our sake, I hope that Lance Briggs holds out and tries to stir up some trouble in CHI.
Yeah, one of those corners went to the probowl so I would say he is more than average. And they had injuries last year(more on offense than defense) but they still found ways to win. Thats what a TEAM does. The leader of the defense Mike Brown was injured most of the season yet they still rose to the occasion. Your Bias views shines through.

Vasher is very good but he is hardly a shutdown corner. I wouldn't rate him as one of the top 6-7 corners in the league.

But if you really feel he is one of the top 5 corners in the league than do you think the Bears should pay him like one? I'm interested to see what happens with Jones, Briggs, and Vasher.
Vasher has already reported back after 1 week absence and said he will let his play on the field speak for him this season. He said he refuses to be a distraction to the team. http://www.chicagobears.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=15966

[Dabaddestbear]

The Packers are going to be much better. I still think the Bears have the North locked down for at least one more year.

With that being said, Favre takes Bears games seriously and I think the Packers will win at least one. If Favre stays healthy and comes back, I think this young team could compete for a championship. Not quite yet but I think there will be some real gains this year.

I think the Bears are a legit 11-5/12-4 team. I don't think GB is as far off as many seem to think though. It looks to me like an 8-8 season but that is just a guess.
as much as a homer I would like to be , I do think GB will take one from the Bears :oops:

[Scott Campbell]

I think Grossman and Griese will make for a solid one two punch since chances are whoever starts will get injured and not finish the season.

Well that covers games 1 and 2, but what happens for games 3-16? Maybe the refs could let them play with the red jerseys during the regular season. Wait, scratch that. Grossman wasn't even touched the last time he got a booboo.

The highly favored Bears get thier next opportunity to choke again in Lambeau field on September 10th.

[red]

I think Grossman and Griese will make for a solid one two punch since chances are whoever starts will get injured and not finish the season.

Well that covers games 1 and 2, but what happens for games 3-16?

LOL

honestly, can anyone name another team that has worse luck with keeping their starting qb's healthy?

[woodbuck27]

Maybe the refs could let them ( the Bears QB's) play with the red jerseys during the regular season.

Hahahahahahaha. Now . . . that is funny.

[Dabaddestbear]

I think Grossman and Griese will make for a solid one two punch since chances are whoever starts will get injured and not finish the season.

Well that covers games 1 and 2, but what happens for games 3-16? Maybe the refs could let them play with the red jerseys during the regular season. Wait, scratch that. Grossman wasn't even touched the last time he got a booboo.

The highly favored Bears get thier next opportunity to choke again in Lambeau field on September 10th.
Well that just means they will have to only go 10-6 for the rest of the season like they did last year with a third string QB (Orton). No shame in that as long as they win. Wonder how good the Pack will do if Brett goes down for the season?
The Bears has had the worst fortune with QB's of all the teams over the past. Its got to end one day, one year, one decade, one century....you get the picture. :roll:
And unless you guys just signed Steve Smith I am not worried about the Bears choking to the Packers of all teams. Lovie Smith has seemed to figure out how to beat Brett since he been running things these past few years 3-1 and counting.

[Dabaddestbear]

amazing how a team that dayum near swept the entire division last year (only cuz they didnt play there starters in the second half of that last game against the Vikings), is written as suspect to win the division by packer fans on here :roll: .
They are the only team to retain ALL starters on there most dominate side of the ball (defense) plus a few extras for back up purposes.They are the only team with a vetran coaching staff that proves it knows how to win. The injuries to there top draft picks last year kept them very limited in play (well Benson also wasnt going to supplant Jones and his rush to 1300yds in his first year). You speak of an offensive line for the Vikings, but no team in the division has a more secure solid line than the Bears, as a matter of afact no team in the Division has a better line on either side of the ball than the Bears.

Your talking about a team that did not take any questional steps back this year at all at any possition. They only got stronger in their weakest areas. Safety/CB secured backup and nickle possitions with the two Mannings. And at WR they have Bradley, Berrianat and Currie at full strength to compliment Moose(although I hope his ass wont drop as many balls!). All those guys have tremendous speed for the slot and to stretch the field. If you need a reminder I only need to direct you to the clip of Berrian running past the Packers D deep as if they wasnt even there.

I dont want to toot my horn too much....nah, YES I DO :twisted: . But the Bears ARE the team to beat just like the Packers once were back in the day.
I think the Vikings will follow two games behind since they are under suspect leadership and there is no true since of what they have yet. I will wait to past judgement on them after watching a few preseason games.

The lions are the trickiest to figure out here cuz they once again have the talent on the offensive side of the ball but they always refuse to show it. That may change with the mad scientist Mike Martz up there in control of the O. Plus they have the D cordinator as the head coach from Tampa which should make them an interesting team to watch. For they dont have much talent on the defensive side but the right fire under your butt can get you moving.

Now I dont want to bash GB too much...uh, yes i do!! :twisted:
They have waaay too many question marks across the board. Only thing you know for sure is Brett is gonna toss some TD's that may just match his INT total. Top draft pick Hawk may be good, but will he be great? He wasnt even great in College. He was a very solid standout in college but so was his other LB's that played beside him. So the question will be answered if they made him better or vice versa.
O-line on at the Tackles are solid, but that enterior is garbage. Zone blacking scheme may work against most Heavy d-lines but if you havent noticed the Tampa 2 defence that require quick smaller linemen is being installed in Detroit and is already been suscessful in Chicago. So in other words when the zone blocking moves, smaller quick DT's like Tommie Harris and Dusty Dvoracek can knife right thru. Plus shiftier RB's usually make that scheme shines. Shify is not Gado in the backfield and tha is why he is having a hard time picking this stuff up now.
Woodson is signed but trust me when I say he no longer has the speed he had several years ago to be a CB. If he was moved to safety I would be more wooried as a Bears fan. The WR corps aside from Driver is very poor. At least the Bears WR opposite of Moose showed flashes of potential when the ball came there way and they werent injured. Ferguson had all the chances in the world and should not make it out of camp with the Pack this year.

[/list]

[The Shadow]

The Bears are just not that impressive, on many levels.
I think the division is wide open.

[Zool]

All good points.

If Birk is back to his previous form, I would take the Vikes O line over the Bears O line.

Detroit has 1 good WR, a good TE and who knows at RB. As sad as it may be, Scotty Vines is their #2 WR. Detriot hasnt worried me since Barry hung em up. They are in shambles and will continue to be until Millen is finally shown the door.

Packers have lots of holes and have young guys filling them. How many rookie guards to well in the NFL? Looks like we might have 2 starting this year. If they do well, who will be carrying the ball? Green seems an almost perfect fit for the ZBS but does he have anything left? Poopy McCloset will have a good second half to a game, start the next game and get hurt after picking up 80 yards in the first half. Gado is a north/south guy. He runs forward very fast and very hard. Cutback might not be his thing. He has been passed up by Noah already in the OTS. Thats not a great sign.

Driver and.....well a bunch of middle of the road WR's. Rookie WR's rarely have huge years, but I'm not sure Jennings is your average rookie WR. He has caught alot of short/midrange passes in college and turned them into big gains. That sounds alot like what he will be asked to do here. TE's will be good blockers and average recievers.

D will be better but I expect to see a slip from last years inflated numbers. 10-12th in the NFL would be just fine with me and keep us in alot of games.

Bears D will dominate teams again. The O did not get any improvements other than Brian Griese. There must be a reason teams keep letting him go.

Bears 11-5
Vikings 9-7
Packers 7-9
Lions......man who knows. Anywhere from 1-15 to 6-10. They are embarrasing. Last year before the season there was big talk of them and playoffs. As usual that didnt happen. It wont happen this year either.

[Partial]

amazing how a team that dayum near swept the entire division last year (only cuz they didnt play there starters in the second half of that last game against the Vikings), is written as suspect to win the division by packer fans on here :roll: .
They are the only team to retain ALL starters on there most dominate side of the ball (defense) plus a few extras for back up purposes.They are the only team with a vetran coaching staff that proves it knows how to win. The injuries to there top draft picks last year kept them very limited in play (well Benson also wasnt going to supplant Jones and his rush to 1300yds in his first year). You speak of an offensive line for the Vikings, but no team in the division has a more secure solid line than the Bears, as a matter of afact no team in the Division has a better line on either side of the ball than the Bears.

Your talking about a team that did not take any questional steps back this year at all at any possition. They only got stronger in their weakest areas. Safety/CB secured backup and nickle possitions with the two Mannings. And at WR they have Bradley, Berrianat and Currie at full strength to compliment Moose(although I hope his ass wont drop as many balls!). All those guys have tremendous speed for the slot and to stretch the field. If you need a reminder I only need to direct you to the clip of Berrian running past the Packers D deep as if they wasnt even there.

I dont want to toot my horn too much....nah, YES I DO :twisted: . But the Bears ARE the team to beat just like the Packers once were back in the day.
I think the Vikings will follow two games behind since they are under suspect leadership and there is no true since of what they have yet. I will wait to past judgement on them after watching a few preseason games.

The lions are the trickiest to figure out here cuz they once again have the talent on the offensive side of the ball but they always refuse to show it. That may change with the mad scientist Mike Martz up there in control of the O. Plus they have the D cordinator as the head coach from Tampa which should make them an interesting team to watch. For they dont have much talent on the defensive side but the right fire under your butt can get you moving.

Now I dont want to bash GB too much...uh, yes i do!! :twisted:
They have waaay too many question marks across the board. Only thing you know for sure is Brett is gonna toss some TD's that may just match his INT total. Top draft pick Hawk may be good, but will he be great? He wasnt even great in College. He was a very solid standout in college but so was his other LB's that played beside him. So the question will be answered if they made him better or vice versa.
O-line on at the Tackles are solid, but that enterior is garbage. Zone blacking scheme may work against most Heavy d-lines but if you havent noticed the Tampa 2 defence that require quick smaller linemen is being installed in Detroit and is already been suscessful in Chicago. So in other words when the zone blocking moves, smaller quick DT's like Tommie Harris and Dusty Dvoracek can knife right thru. Plus shiftier RB's usually make that scheme shines. Shify is not Gado in the backfield and tha is why he is having a hard time picking this stuff up now.
Woodson is signed but trust me when I say he no longer has the speed he had several years ago to be a CB. If he was moved to safety I would be more wooried as a Bears fan. The WR corps aside from Driver is very poor. At least the Bears WR opposite of Moose showed flashes of potential when the ball came there way and they werent injured. Ferguson had all the chances in the world and should not make it out of camp with the Pack this year.

[/list]

I agree with you. I think some young guys will surprise, though.

[wist43]

The North is a pretty pathetic division with the Bears clearly the favorite. Minnesota may give them a run for their money if Childress turns out to be any sort of coach at all... for my money though, I don't like Childress, and don't think he was a very good hire.

Green Bay and Detroit are both pretty dismal teams... neither one can seriously contend for the division title.

[The Shadow]

I just don't see all the talent on the Bears that some others see.
To me, they look extremely thin overall.

[Partial]

I just don't see all the talent on the Bears that some others see.
To me, they look extremely thin overall.


They have 2 DEs better than Kampman and KGB. Both are serious pass rushers.

They have this generations warren sapp and best pass rushing tackle in the league in Harris. Their other DT is a big fatty who can stop the run. Both starters are better than anyone we have.

Urlacher and Briggs are both better than our best linebacker by a landslide.

Vasher is better than any corner we have. Brown is a better defensive back than any we have.

They're very, very, very good defensively.

[Dabaddestbear]

I just don't see all the talent on the Bears that some others see.
To me, they look extremely thin overall.
Thats because you may only watch football when YOUR team plays.
Chicago has by far one of the deepest Defensive lines in the league. The offensive line is solid inside and on the ends with quality backups. They are now deep at safety and corner with the Manning Pickups. They are more solid at Qb than they have been in 20 years. They have a starting RB that rushed for 1300yds last year when everyone knew he was the only offense with Orton behind center and they have last years #5 pick Cedric Benson who led all rushers in yardage when he was drafted wating in the wings. 2 pro bowl LB's in Briggs and Urlacher. Even WR has the fastest young group in the NFC north opposite Moose that showed strong potential (whenever Orton threw the ball within 20 yds of them)

Once again I must also add that these guys have also became a cohesive unit over the past few years. You can never underestimate familiarity players have with one another. That is what is going to give packer fans fits this year. They made some good additions in the offseason. But how well will they mesh with one another. No one made more key additions to their team on paper these past few years than the Vikings, but as we all know without proper coaching to make all that talent work together you will be in for a long frustrating season. Add that to the fact that you have Vrigin coaches taking over that have never really had any success on the Pro level at any head possition. A head coach from SF who produced one of the worst offenses in the league last year. A DC that was always the flunky of last years DC and for some reason always was just an asst. to an asst. never the man in his own right. He may run the same scheme as last year but do that mean he will make the same calls at the right time? Will he be able to push the players and motivate them enough when it is needed? See you must understand that if it was just about knowing the same scheme it is how you run it. If knowledge of a scheme was all that was needed we would all have a job in NFL. :wink:

[Dabaddestbear]

I just don't see all the talent on the Bears that some others see.
To me, they look extremely thin overall.


They have 2 DEs better than Kampman and KGB. Both are serious pass rushers.

They have this generations warren sapp and best pass rushing tackle in the league in Harris. Their other DT is a big fatty who can stop the run. Both starters are better than anyone we have.

Urlacher and Briggs are both better than our best linebacker by a landslide.

Vasher is better than any corner we have. Brown is a better defensive back than any we have.

They're very, very, very good defensively.
Not so sure about that one. Vasher is good but I cant compare him to Harris till he starts convering the #1 WR. But I do think he is better than Woodson or any other DB on the Pack squad. But I agree with all else you said. Watch out for Dusty. He was starting next to Harris in OKL, now they are back together. Okl coach said Dusty was the best pure football player he ever coached on defense. He is just as quick as Tommie with a meaner streak. Watching them two on passing downs will be fun.

[wist43]

I don't think it's even a contest when it comes to comparing the talent levels of the Bears and Packers - the Bears are clearly a much more talented team.

As for coaching staffs - you can't make a comparison b/c nobody knows what the Packers have in McCarthy. To tell you the truth, I'd be very surprised if McCarthy comes out of the gates and gets the Packers off to a fast start. He was nobody's choice but Thompsons, and he and his coordinators have absolutely no experience in their positions.

Smith, on the other hand, has righted the ship down in Chicago, is providing good leadership, and is a solid game day coach.

The Bears are, in fact, at least 3 years ahead of the Packers, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see the Bears blow the Packers off the field on opening day.

As sad a prospect as that may seem.

[The Shadow]

I live near Chicago - and have watched every game they've played. Even watched some practice in Lake Forest.
Sorry, just don't see the perceived talent gap at all.
Alex Brown/KGB? I prefer KGB.
Kampmann /Owalywhatever? There's a big talent difference?
Tackles? Tommie Harris gives them a slight advantage, but otherwise, again their is no gaping talent gap.
Secondary? Woodson's addition & the coming of age of Collins + the addition of our new SS & the maturation of Carroll - again, don't see a gap.
Their best player, Brown, has lost more steps than he can afford.
The big difference has been the linebacker corp, and now, with the additions of Hawk, Hodge, & Taylor, even that is narrowing.
Offense?
Kreutz gives them a nice advantage at center. But Wells has his best football ahead of him; Olin is a banged-up, silly penalty-prone 30.
Their guards, esp. the elderly Rueben Brown, are nothing special. Of course, they get the nod because of experience over Colledge & Spitz, but wouldn't you rather be on the way up than the way down?
Tait/Clifton = a draw.
Tauscher is considerably better than the aging Fred Miller.
All 3 of our tight ends are better than any of theirs.
Receivers? Do YOU see a difference?
QB : Favre vs. Grossman/Griese? Please......
RB : It hinges on Green's recovery.

Repeat : the division is a crapshoot.

[The Shadow]

Oh yeah : forgot to mention their dismal draft.
They were so pleased with their mediocre offense, they did nothing to help it.
Overall, the Chicago Bears are a bit like we were 2 years ago : trying to hold on & patch, as key areas age quickly.
The Packers are on the way back up -and I like that a whole lot better.

[Bossman641]

I live in ILL and I watch the Bears nearly every week. i'm very familiar with their roster, here's my take.

QB I honestly think it's too soon to proclaim Grossman the real deal. For all the savior talk he gets from Bear fans, he's still only played in 8 games in his career. 4 Td's, 6 Int's, and a 54% completion rate. He also has 5 fumbles in those 8 games. Turner does call the game very differently when Grossman is in the game though. The threat alone of throwing the deep ball changes their offense completely.

RB I like Thomas Jones alot. He runs hard, can catch the ball, and doesn't fumble. Adrian Peterson is a nice change of pace back. I still think that Benson was a wasted pick last year but it's too early to say for sure. There's only so many carries to go around.

WR Honestly, their WR do not scare me. I understand Moose had fewer opportunities with Orton at the helm, but he had A LOT of drops last year. He'll give you 70 or so catches and 7-8 TD's but he is getting up there in age. You never know when he'll lose the marginal amount of speed that he has. They were waiting for Gage to step up all last year, didn't happen. Bradley had 1 good game last year before he got injured, too soon to proclaim him a capable starter. Berrian can stretch the field but again, too soon to say he's starter material.

OL Their line is good but Miller, Kreutz, and Brown are getting up there in age. I like Garza but if one your your tackles gets injured and you have to play Qasim Mitchell you are fucked. He is terrible.

DL I really like this position. The ends are good and Idonije is a good backup. Tommie Harris is a beast and they have a good roation at DT. Haynes hasn't lived up to his draft position though. Why is that?

LB Urlacher and Briggs, what can I say. All the other LB has to do is not make mental mistakes and you'll be fine.

CB I don't think Vasher is as good as his numbers indicate. He's not a shutdown guy. Tillman struggled last year, can throw on him all day. Who knows about Manning. I dunno if there will be any disciplinary action.

S Brown's had injury problems and I've always thought he was a little overrated, still very good though. I thought Harris did a good job for a rookie. That's why I was surprised at the Bear's draft.

I thought the Bears' draft sucked. Desmond Clark is nothing special and I thought for sure they would target a TE. Manning is coming from a small school. Will he contribute this year? Devin Hester is nothing special as a CB. Sure he can return kicks, but is it really worth a second round pick to grab a returner, especially when you need offensive help.

I have a question for you Baddest Bear. Is Lovie involved with the offense at all, or is that strictly under the control of Turner? Lovie is a good coach although he made some mistakes last year (poor clock management, etc). I like Rivera and thought somebody would pick him up as a coach this offseason. I predict 10-6 or 11-5 for the Bears.

[Partial]

I live near Chicago - and have watched every game they've played. Even watched some practice in Lake Forest.
Sorry, just don't see the perceived talent gap at all.
Alex Brown/KGB? I prefer KGB.
Kampmann /Owalywhatever? There's a big talent difference?
Tackles? Tommie Harris gives them a slight advantage, but otherwise, again their is no gaping talent gap.
Secondary? Woodson's addition & the coming of age of Collins + the addition of our new SS & the maturation of Carroll - again, don't see a gap.
Their best player, Brown, has lost more steps than he can afford.
The big difference has been the linebacker corp, and now, with the additions of Hawk, Hodge, & Taylor, even that is narrowing.
Offense?
Kreutz gives them a nice advantage at center. But Wells has his best football ahead of him; Olin is a banged-up, silly penalty-prone 30.
Their guards, esp. the elderly Rueben Brown, are nothing special. Of course, they get the nod because of experience over Colledge & Spitz, but wouldn't you rather be on the way up than the way down?
Tait/Clifton = a draw.
Tauscher is considerably better than the aging Fred Miller.
All 3 of our tight ends are better than any of theirs.
Receivers? Do YOU see a difference?
QB : Favre vs. Grossman/Griese? Please......
RB : It hinges on Green's recovery.

Repeat : the division is a crapshoot.

You're A Homer *clap, clap, clap clap calp*
*repeat*

The Bears defense is sick. They'll be top 3 in the league, and we'll be very good and top 10, but the difference in talent is still huge. Their defense is as good as the Raven's when they won the super bowl if not better.

[Partial]

Vasher may not be some amazing cover corner, but he's a risk taker and a playmaker. I'd love for him to be a Packer. Realistically, with my Packer googles off, the Bears are better at every position defensively. We are pretty close or worse in every position except for QB.

We have a HUGE advantage at QB, which should make the games a whole lot more competitive then they should be. Since QB is the most important positions, teams can get away with being suspect at some other positions when they have a great quarterback

[K-town]

You're A Homer *clap, clap, clap clap calp*
*repeat*

The Bears defense is sick. They'll be top 3 in the league, and we'll be very good and top 10, but the difference in talent is still huge. Their defense is as good as the Raven's when they won the super bowl if not better.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the vaunted Bear defense get shredded by ONE GUY in the playoffs? I remember watching an outstanding Ravens defense absolutely dominate everyone they played in 2000, especially in the playoffs.
I don't dispute that the talent level of the Bears defense is superior to ours, but puhleeze - top 3? One of the reasons the Bears achieved their defensive ranking last year is they got to play Detroit twice (with Joey Heatherton and Jeff Garcia), an injury ravaged/depth challenged Pack twice and a dysfuntional Viking squad led by Daunte & Tice. Does anybody else recall Trent Dilfer (!) beating the Bears with 2 late TD passes? The Bangles embarassing them? The Steelers flat out running them over?
I also seem to remember our NFL Europe/Arena League offense putting up over 325 yards in each of our two losses last year.
Will the Bears win the division this year? Probably. But it might be with an 8 and 8 record. And their defense will once again get exposed in the playoffs.

[Bossman641]

Vasher may not be some amazing cover corner, but he's a risk taker and a playmaker. I'd love for him to be a Packer. Realistically, with my Packer googles off, the Bears are better at every position defensively. We are pretty close or worse in every position except for QB.


You know why Vasher is a playmaker and can afford to take risks? Because he is on a very good defense that is able to create pressure with its front 4. He's able to jump routes because the QB only has a limited amount of time in the pocket. That, along with the fact that the Bears are very comfortable with their scheme, is why he makes plays.

Don't believe me? Check out his picks from last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll-dqKPMgjE&search=nathan%20vasher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ5yPMepvYA&search=nathan%20vasher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mch-2S7vsFw&search=nathan%20vasher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU6NpmSggZo&search=nathan%20vasher

I see a player who took advantage of errant throws by quarterbacks under pressure.

He's still a good player, but it's not as if he is making ridiculous interceptions. He's normally in correct position and he benefits from the Bear's good defense.

[Dabaddestbear]

I live in ILL and I watch the Bears nearly every week. i'm very familiar with their roster, here's my take.
well you must not be paying close attention..

QB I honestly think it's too soon to proclaim Grossman the real deal. For all the savior talk he gets from Bear fans, he's still only played in 8 games in his career. 4 Td's, 6 Int's, and a 54% completion rate. He also has 5 fumbles in those 8 games. Turner does call the game very differently when Grossman is in the game though. The threat alone of throwing the deep ball changes their offense completely.
I havent proclaimed Grossman as the starter. I said the QB possition with him and Griese is the best they have had in 20 years. That in effect means that is an improvement in that area.

RB I like Thomas Jones alot. He runs hard, can catch the ball, and doesn't fumble. Adrian Peterson is a nice change of pace back. I still think that Benson was a wasted pick last year but it's too early to say for sure. There's only so many carries to go around.
Once again the validity in the statements you make are so flawed its ridiculous. The Bears have a 1300 yd back in Jones, and the top rusher from college in Benson. Please tell me how Beson was a wasted pick? He averaged over 4.5 yds per game when he did touch the ball last year and would have had more if it wasnt for Jones shining so much. Peterson just produces every chance he gets and he is the 3rd RB on the depth chart! RB possition is probaly the deepest and most secure on the team. Give true logic behind your statments next time.

WR Honestly, their WR do not scare me. I understand Moose had fewer opportunities with Orton at the helm, but he had A LOT of drops last year. He'll give you 70 or so catches and 7-8 TD's but he is getting up there in age. You never know when he'll lose the marginal amount of speed that he has. They were waiting for Gage to step up all last year, didn't happen. Bradley had 1 good game last year before he got injured, too soon to proclaim him a capable starter. Berrian can stretch the field but again, too soon to say he's starter material.

OL Their line is good but Miller, Kreutz, and Brown are getting up there in age. I like Garza but if one your your tackles gets injured and you have to play Qasim Mitchell you are fucked. He is terrible.
Mitchel is not the only backup on the team. and he is solid in the rotation in spelled moments. Still the O-line is more solid than anything in the NFC north.

DL I really like this position. The ends are good and Idonije is a good backup. Tommie Harris is a beast and they have a good roation at DT. Haynes hasn't lived up to his draft position though. Why is that?
Hmmm, if you have been watching the Bears you would know this answer. He was drafted under Dick Jauron who wanted him to gain weight for there scheme, then Lovie came and wanted him to lose weight for his quick line scheme. He wasnt blasting off da line quick enough so in comes O-gun via trade of Booker, and now Haynes has been moved to DT to make a four man rotation inside that no team can match. Once again a strong point.

LB Urlacher and Briggs, what can I say. All the other LB has to do is not make mental mistakes and you'll be fine.
Just like I been saying, and how many teams have one all pro LB not to mention TWO!

CB I don't think Vasher is as good as his numbers indicate. He's not a shutdown guy. Tillman struggled last year, can throw on him all day. Who knows about Manning. I dunno if there will be any disciplinary action.
Tilman has been caught deep before but you cant just throw on him. But he does have problems with elite speedy WR's. The average #1 WR has no chance against him. Vasher may not be as good as his numbers indicate and like i said before I NEVER SAID HE WAS A SHUTDOWN CB. No CB in the league is. So saying that I will take his numbers over any of your CB numbers anyday since INT's means the other team no longer has the ball and you offense has an extra chance to score. There will be do action taken by the team in regards to manning, they have already said so. In his case the field production is all that matters right now.

S Brown's had injury problems and I've always thought he was a little overrated, still very good though. I thought Harris did a good job for a rookie. That's why I was surprised at the Bear's draft.
Brown is solid period. He would start for any team in the NFC north. Harris was soid for a rookie but he was caught out of possition some times and his recovery speed isnt great if he bites on a play. Enter Manning(the rookie) and his outstanding speed and atheliticism and may the best man win. Once again a soid possition made stronger.

I thought the Bears' draft sucked. Desmond Clark is nothing special and I thought for sure they would target a TE. Manning is coming from a small school. Will he contribute this year? Devin Hester is nothing special as a CB. Sure he can return kicks, but is it really worth a second round pick to grab a returner, especially when you need offensive help.
I thought you said you been watching the Bears? If so you will notice that Lovie said the player that stood out the most and looked outstanding with his catches and improved speed is Clark. Why should they have drafted a TE? which one would have been better than Clark? EXACTLY. "Manning is coming froma small school"....uh, is that all you have to say to disaprove of this pick? I'm sure I dont have to mention how many good to great players came from small schools in the NFL. He will compete for the starting FS possition and may start by week 3. Hester not only returns kicks, he was the best in doing so last year in college. You need to watch clips of this kid, hes pretty much amazing at what he does when he touches the ball. no one can ever cath him if he gets a step on them. And he finds seems that only a slim jim can fit through. Big upgrade from fumble4u Wade. He will come in on Dime Packages and earn his keep. The Bears offensive help was only apparent at QB last year when Orton was tossing the pig skin. The WR's were getting open but he kept throwing into the stands! Grossman came back in the last weeks and moved down the field with no problem. and the Runig game was solid all year even when everyone knew they had to run. So please stop following lead by saying they needed to draft offense when there was no offensive player on the board that would help the team more than the players they took. Anytime a team is not picking in the top half of the draft they more than likely get looked at as having a poor draft cuz they dont pick a player that was on ESPN for months leading up to the Draft.

I have a question for you Baddest Bear. Is Lovie involved with the offense at all, or is that strictly under the control of Turner? Lovie is a good coach although he made some mistakes last year (poor clock management, etc). I like Rivera and thought somebody would pick him up as a coach this offseason. I predict 10-6 or 11-5 for the Bears.
Lovie is involved on both sides of the ball but more so with defense than offense. I do think he made some mistakes on clock management during one game last year. All coaches make mistakes its how they learn how to not make them again is what make them great. Your prediction is what I envision also. [/b]

[The Shadow]

You're A Homer *clap, clap, clap clap calp*
*repeat*

The Bears defense is sick. They'll be top 3 in the league, and we'll be very good and top 10, but the difference in talent is still huge. Their defense is as good as the Raven's when they won the super bowl if not better.


May I stop 'calping' now?
One small wide receiver sliced & diced that 'sick defense' last year......

The fact that the Bears completely goofed on the draft this year - and will again feature that same sadsack offense - once more shows the McCaskey touch, condemning any hint of success.

[Dabaddestbear]

Vasher may not be some amazing cover corner, but he's a risk taker and a playmaker. I'd love for him to be a Packer. Realistically, with my Packer googles off, the Bears are better at every position defensively. We are pretty close or worse in every position except for QB.


You know why Vasher is a playmaker and can afford to take risks? Because he is on a very good defense that is able to create pressure with its front 4. He's able to jump routes because the QB only has a limited amount of time in the pocket. That, along with the fact that the Bears are very comfortable with their scheme, is why he makes plays.

Don't believe me? Check out his picks from last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll-dqKPMgjE&search=nathan%20vasher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ5yPMepvYA&search=nathan%20vasher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mch-2S7vsFw&search=nathan%20vasher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU6NpmSggZo&search=nathan%20vasher

I see a player who took advantage of errant throws by quarterbacks under pressure.

He's still a good player, but it's not as if he is making ridiculous interceptions. He's normally in correct position and he benefits from the Bear's good defense.
Not many INt's are made ridiculously. How many CB's make Sports Center every week for an acrobatic one handed INT?
If you noticed against the Packers, Redskins, and Falcons the Qb was not under immediate pressure. They tossed the ball up hoping to make a quick play and Vasher read it better than the WR each time, except for the one against the Falcons, the ball was popped lose but he had awareness to pick the ball out the air for an INT. What makes a good CB is being able to locate the ball b4 the WR. To be in better possition to make a play on the ball. To catch the ball once it hits your hands. All those picks was not from pressure but from ball hawking skills. There are other good defenses with good presure up front in the NFL but their CB's didnt pick off da ball as well. Now he is not a shut down CB for they dont exist. But he finds where the ball is on his side of the field.

[Dabaddestbear]

You're A Homer *clap, clap, clap clap calp*
*repeat*

The Bears defense is sick. They'll be top 3 in the league, and we'll be very good and top 10, but the difference in talent is still huge. Their defense is as good as the Raven's when they won the super bowl if not better.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the vaunted Bear defense get shredded by ONE GUY in the playoffs? I remember watching an outstanding Ravens defense absolutely dominate everyone they played in 2000, especially in the playoffs.
I don't dispute that the talent level of the Bears defense is superior to ours, but puhleeze - top 3? One of the reasons the Bears achieved their defensive ranking last year is they got to play Detroit twice (with Joey Heatherton and Jeff Garcia), an injury ravaged/depth challenged Pack twice and a dysfuntional Viking squad led by Daunte & Tice. Does anybody else recall Trent Dilfer (!) beating the Bears with 2 late TD passes? The Bangles embarassing them? The Steelers flat out running them over?
I also seem to remember our NFL Europe/Arena League offense putting up over 325 yards in each of our two losses last year.
Will the Bears win the division this year? Probably. But it might be with an 8 and 8 record. And their defense will once again get exposed in the playoffs.
Well since none of those players are on the packers squad or in the NFC north, maybe you should think of anothre reason why the Bears wont blow this division wide open. and keep in mind all those yarsd mean nothing if they shut you down wen it counts. Ask any team in the NFl and they will agree. 325 yards but got your QB killed each time and with a lost....I would keep that to myself and shoot myself if I ever mention it again. :neutral:

[Dabaddestbear]

You're A Homer *clap, clap, clap clap calp*
*repeat*

The Bears defense is sick. They'll be top 3 in the league, and we'll be very good and top 10, but the difference in talent is still huge. Their defense is as good as the Raven's when they won the super bowl if not better.


May I stop 'calping' now?
One small wide receiver sliced & diced that 'sick defense' last year......

The fact that the Bears completely goofed on the draft this year - and will again feature that same sadsack offense - once more shows the McCaskey touch, condemning any hint of success.
uh, he is a homer for the Bears when he is a Packer fan? :idea:
sad sack offense? hmm, lets see they turnde the ball over less than the packers and one WR did not destroy the enitre defense. I dont remember him throwing the ball or running out the backfield or lining up across from O-Gun. He owned Tillman that day and now its a new day. And the New day says The Bears are the team to Beat by the packers. The Bears looked bad against a few teams last year while the Packers looked horrible against a whole bunch of teams...yep, the Bears suck :roll:

[Deputy Nutz]

What year was it when the Bears won the division and everyone thought the Monsters of the Midway were back, only to fall back to form the next year. Was that 2001? Granted it was under Dick Juron, but still, this but still this Bears franchise has yet to put together two winning seasons since the mid 80s.

I guess I would be more threatened if the Packers played in the NFC East.

Oh, and Partial, Vasher ain't no better than Harris and Woodson.

Hawk is going to be unbelievable and having everyone forgetting about Urlacher as the best defensive player in the NFC North. I guess I will make that bold prediction because it is the off-season, and guess what, the packers had a much better draft and a more aggressive off-season. Lets not forget that Ryan Pickett had over 70 some tackles as a defensive tackle, he is the real deal.

[K-town]

[Well since none of those players are on the packers squad or in the NFC north, maybe you should think of anothre reason why the Bears wont blow this division wide open. and keep in mind all those yarsd mean nothing if they shut you down wen it counts. Ask any team in the NFl and they will agree. 325 yards but got your QB killed each time and with a lost....I would keep that to myself and shoot myself if I ever mention it again. :neutral:

Some othre reasons, then:
*McCown and Kitna in Detroit, instead of Joey Hetherton and Jeff Garcia.
*Brad Johnson in Minnesota, though approximately 200 years old, will be operating behind an improved offensive line, with a head coach who has a triple-digit IQ.
*Green Bay still has the best QB in the division, and will improve almost by default.
Now, I realize the offensive juggernaut that Bears field each Sunday will be ringing up the scoreboard with 7, 10 and 13 point outbursts, but seriously - how long can you rely on your defense and special teams to score for you?
The 325 yards per game I mentioned just showed the rest of the league how overrated the Bear defense was. Speaking of getting our QB killed, isn't it time for Grossman to be shelved for the year with that infected hangnail?
BTW, are you going to shoot yourself when daBears get bounced in the first round of the playoffs AGAIN?

[The Shadow]

"......yep, the Bears suck."

I knew, dasuckiestbear, that someday you would get SOMETHING right!
You finally did it!
Good boy.

[Bossman641]

I live in ILL and I watch the Bears nearly every week. i'm very familiar with their roster, here's my take.
well you must not be paying close attention..

QB I honestly think it's too soon to proclaim Grossman the real deal. For all the savior talk he gets from Bear fans, he's still only played in 8 games in his career. 4 Td's, 6 Int's, and a 54% completion rate. He also has 5 fumbles in those 8 games. Turner does call the game very differently when Grossman is in the game though. The threat alone of throwing the deep ball changes their offense completely.
I havent proclaimed Grossman as the starter. I said the QB possition with him and Griese is the best they have had in 20 years. That in effect means that is an improvement in that area.

RB I like Thomas Jones alot. He runs hard, can catch the ball, and doesn't fumble. Adrian Peterson is a nice change of pace back. I still think that Benson was a wasted pick last year but it's too early to say for sure. There's only so many carries to go around.
Once again the validity in the statements you make are so flawed its ridiculous. The Bears have a 1300 yd back in Jones, and the top rusher from college in Benson. Please tell me how Beson was a wasted pick? He averaged over 4.5 yds per game when he did touch the ball last year and would have had more if it wasnt for Jones shining so much. Peterson just produces every chance he gets and he is the 3rd RB on the depth chart! RB possition is probaly the deepest and most secure on the team. Give true logic behind your statments next time.

WR Honestly, their WR do not scare me. I understand Moose had fewer opportunities with Orton at the helm, but he had A LOT of drops last year. He'll give you 70 or so catches and 7-8 TD's but he is getting up there in age. You never know when he'll lose the marginal amount of speed that he has. They were waiting for Gage to step up all last year, didn't happen. Bradley had 1 good game last year before he got injured, too soon to proclaim him a capable starter. Berrian can stretch the field but again, too soon to say he's starter material.

OL Their line is good but Miller, Kreutz, and Brown are getting up there in age. I like Garza but if one your your tackles gets injured and you have to play Qasim Mitchell you are fucked. He is terrible.
Mitchel is not the only backup on the team. and he is solid in the rotation in spelled moments. Still the O-line is more solid than anything in the NFC north.

DL I really like this position. The ends are good and Idonije is a good backup. Tommie Harris is a beast and they have a good roation at DT. Haynes hasn't lived up to his draft position though. Why is that?
Hmmm, if you have been watching the Bears you would know this answer. He was drafted under Dick Jauron who wanted him to gain weight for there scheme, then Lovie came and wanted him to lose weight for his quick line scheme. He wasnt blasting off da line quick enough so in comes O-gun via trade of Booker, and now Haynes has been moved to DT to make a four man rotation inside that no team can match. Once again a strong point.

LB Urlacher and Briggs, what can I say. All the other LB has to do is not make mental mistakes and you'll be fine.
Just like I been saying, and how many teams have one all pro LB not to mention TWO!

CB I don't think Vasher is as good as his numbers indicate. He's not a shutdown guy. Tillman struggled last year, can throw on him all day. Who knows about Manning. I dunno if there will be any disciplinary action.
Tilman has been caught deep before but you cant just throw on him. But he does have problems with elite speedy WR's. The average #1 WR has no chance against him. Vasher may not be as good as his numbers indicate and like i said before I NEVER SAID HE WAS A SHUTDOWN CB. No CB in the league is. So saying that I will take his numbers over any of your CB numbers anyday since INT's means the other team no longer has the ball and you offense has an extra chance to score. There will be do action taken by the team in regards to manning, they have already said so. In his case the field production is all that matters right now.

S Brown's had injury problems and I've always thought he was a little overrated, still very good though. I thought Harris did a good job for a rookie. That's why I was surprised at the Bear's draft.
Brown is solid period. He would start for any team in the NFC north. Harris was soid for a rookie but he was caught out of possition some times and his recovery speed isnt great if he bites on a play. Enter Manning(the rookie) and his outstanding speed and atheliticism and may the best man win. Once again a soid possition made stronger.

I thought the Bears' draft sucked. Desmond Clark is nothing special and I thought for sure they would target a TE. Manning is coming from a small school. Will he contribute this year? Devin Hester is nothing special as a CB. Sure he can return kicks, but is it really worth a second round pick to grab a returner, especially when you need offensive help.
I thought you said you been watching the Bears? If so you will notice that Lovie said the player that stood out the most and looked outstanding with his catches and improved speed is Clark. Why should they have drafted a TE? which one would have been better than Clark? EXACTLY. "Manning is coming froma small school"....uh, is that all you have to say to disaprove of this pick? I'm sure I dont have to mention how many good to great players came from small schools in the NFL. He will compete for the starting FS possition and may start by week 3. Hester not only returns kicks, he was the best in doing so last year in college. You need to watch clips of this kid, hes pretty much amazing at what he does when he touches the ball. no one can ever cath him if he gets a step on them. And he finds seems that only a slim jim can fit through. Big upgrade from fumble4u Wade. He will come in on Dime Packages and earn his keep. The Bears offensive help was only apparent at QB last year when Orton was tossing the pig skin. The WR's were getting open but he kept throwing into the stands! Grossman came back in the last weeks and moved down the field with no problem. and the Runig game was solid all year even when everyone knew they had to run. So please stop following lead by saying they needed to draft offense when there was no offensive player on the board that would help the team more than the players they took. Anytime a team is not picking in the top half of the draft they more than likely get looked at as having a poor draft cuz they dont pick a player that was on ESPN for months leading up to the Draft.

I have a question for you Baddest Bear. Is Lovie involved with the offense at all, or is that strictly under the control of Turner? Lovie is a good coach although he made some mistakes last year (poor clock management, etc). I like Rivera and thought somebody would pick him up as a coach this offseason. I predict 10-6 or 11-5 for the Bears.
Lovie is involved on both sides of the ball but more so with defense than offense. I do think he made some mistakes on clock management during one game last year. All coaches make mistakes its how they learn how to not make them again is what make them great. Your prediction is what I envision also. [/b]

So because I didn't know what the deal was with Michael Haynes I don't know the Bears? OK, whatever.

According to NFL.com and ESPN Benson had 67 carries for 272 yards, an average of 4.1 yards per carry. Not sure where you're getting this 4.5 yards per carry thing. And I DO think that Jones is a very good back with Pro Bowl potential. I like him alot. That is why I think Benson was a wasted pick. Why not use the #5 pick to get someone at an area of greater need. He sucked in Detroit (because it is Detroit after all) but most Bear fans I know were praying they get Mike Williams. Of course, if Benson turns into the next Larry Johnson to Jones' Priest Holmes I'll take it all back.

And I said their O-line is good, but they are getting up their in age. They could have used one of their second round picks on a linemen to groom as Miller's replacement such as Eric Winston, or Mercedes Lewis, or Chad Jackson, or Jimmy Williams. Hell, if you're so happy about Benson and want to keep loading up on RB's they could have taken DeAngelo Williams. But too late now, I'm sure Gage will FINALLY step up. I'm sure Bradley will play every game for the rest of his life like he did that single game against Detroit. And hey man, if you're happy with Desmond Clark and hs 24 receptions a year good for you.

Did I say Manning wouldn't contribute? NO. I'm asking you how he has been doing so far. I follow the Bears, but not their minicamps and OTA's. Nick Collins came from a small school and did fine for us last year, but pretty much everyone here was surprised at how well he did play. It can certainly be done, but it is a big step forward.

Geez, you act like I bashed every single player on the team. You might be the first Bear fan i've ever talked to who likes Qasim. If you actually think he's solid you're dumber than I thought :mrgreen:

[Dabaddestbear]

I live in ILL and I watch the Bears nearly every week. i'm very familiar with their roster, here's my take.
well you must not be paying close attention..

QB I honestly think it's too soon to proclaim Grossman the real deal. For all the savior talk he gets from Bear fans, he's still only played in 8 games in his career. 4 Td's, 6 Int's, and a 54% completion rate. He also has 5 fumbles in those 8 games. Turner does call the game very differently when Grossman is in the game though. The threat alone of throwing the deep ball changes their offense completely.
I havent proclaimed Grossman as the starter. I said the QB possition with him and Griese is the best they have had in 20 years. That in effect means that is an improvement in that area.

RB I like Thomas Jones alot. He runs hard, can catch the ball, and doesn't fumble. Adrian Peterson is a nice change of pace back. I still think that Benson was a wasted pick last year but it's too early to say for sure. There's only so many carries to go around.
Once again the validity in the statements you make are so flawed its ridiculous. The Bears have a 1300 yd back in Jones, and the top rusher from college in Benson. Please tell me how Beson was a wasted pick? He averaged over 4.5 yds per game when he did touch the ball last year and would have had more if it wasnt for Jones shining so much. Peterson just produces every chance he gets and he is the 3rd RB on the depth chart! RB possition is probaly the deepest and most secure on the team. Give true logic behind your statments next time.

WR Honestly, their WR do not scare me. I understand Moose had fewer opportunities with Orton at the helm, but he had A LOT of drops last year. He'll give you 70 or so catches and 7-8 TD's but he is getting up there in age. You never know when he'll lose the marginal amount of speed that he has. They were waiting for Gage to step up all last year, didn't happen. Bradley had 1 good game last year before he got injured, too soon to proclaim him a capable starter. Berrian can stretch the field but again, too soon to say he's starter material.

OL Their line is good but Miller, Kreutz, and Brown are getting up there in age. I like Garza but if one your your tackles gets injured and you have to play Qasim Mitchell you are fucked. He is terrible.
Mitchel is not the only backup on the team. and he is solid in the rotation in spelled moments. Still the O-line is more solid than anything in the NFC north.

DL I really like this position. The ends are good and Idonije is a good backup. Tommie Harris is a beast and they have a good roation at DT. Haynes hasn't lived up to his draft position though. Why is that?
Hmmm, if you have been watching the Bears you would know this answer. He was drafted under Dick Jauron who wanted him to gain weight for there scheme, then Lovie came and wanted him to lose weight for his quick line scheme. He wasnt blasting off da line quick enough so in comes O-gun via trade of Booker, and now Haynes has been moved to DT to make a four man rotation inside that no team can match. Once again a strong point.

LB Urlacher and Briggs, what can I say. All the other LB has to do is not make mental mistakes and you'll be fine.
Just like I been saying, and how many teams have one all pro LB not to mention TWO!

CB I don't think Vasher is as good as his numbers indicate. He's not a shutdown guy. Tillman struggled last year, can throw on him all day. Who knows about Manning. I dunno if there will be any disciplinary action.
Tilman has been caught deep before but you cant just throw on him. But he does have problems with elite speedy WR's. The average #1 WR has no chance against him. Vasher may not be as good as his numbers indicate and like i said before I NEVER SAID HE WAS A SHUTDOWN CB. No CB in the league is. So saying that I will take his numbers over any of your CB numbers anyday since INT's means the other team no longer has the ball and you offense has an extra chance to score. There will be do action taken by the team in regards to manning, they have already said so. In his case the field production is all that matters right now.

S Brown's had injury problems and I've always thought he was a little overrated, still very good though. I thought Harris did a good job for a rookie. That's why I was surprised at the Bear's draft.
Brown is solid period. He would start for any team in the NFC north. Harris was soid for a rookie but he was caught out of possition some times and his recovery speed isnt great if he bites on a play. Enter Manning(the rookie) and his outstanding speed and atheliticism and may the best man win. Once again a soid possition made stronger.

I thought the Bears' draft sucked. Desmond Clark is nothing special and I thought for sure they would target a TE. Manning is coming from a small school. Will he contribute this year? Devin Hester is nothing special as a CB. Sure he can return kicks, but is it really worth a second round pick to grab a returner, especially when you need offensive help.
I thought you said you been watching the Bears? If so you will notice that Lovie said the player that stood out the most and looked outstanding with his catches and improved speed is Clark. Why should they have drafted a TE? which one would have been better than Clark? EXACTLY. "Manning is coming froma small school"....uh, is that all you have to say to disaprove of this pick? I'm sure I dont have to mention how many good to great players came from small schools in the NFL. He will compete for the starting FS possition and may start by week 3. Hester not only returns kicks, he was the best in doing so last year in college. You need to watch clips of this kid, hes pretty much amazing at what he does when he touches the ball. no one can ever cath him if he gets a step on them. And he finds seems that only a slim jim can fit through. Big upgrade from fumble4u Wade. He will come in on Dime Packages and earn his keep. The Bears offensive help was only apparent at QB last year when Orton was tossing the pig skin. The WR's were getting open but he kept throwing into the stands! Grossman came back in the last weeks and moved down the field with no problem. and the Runig game was solid all year even when everyone knew they had to run. So please stop following lead by saying they needed to draft offense when there was no offensive player on the board that would help the team more than the players they took. Anytime a team is not picking in the top half of the draft they more than likely get looked at as having a poor draft cuz they dont pick a player that was on ESPN for months leading up to the Draft.

I have a question for you Baddest Bear. Is Lovie involved with the offense at all, or is that strictly under the control of Turner? Lovie is a good coach although he made some mistakes last year (poor clock management, etc). I like Rivera and thought somebody would pick him up as a coach this offseason. I predict 10-6 or 11-5 for the Bears.
Lovie is involved on both sides of the ball but more so with defense than offense. I do think he made some mistakes on clock management during one game last year. All coaches make mistakes its how they learn how to not make them again is what make them great. Your prediction is what I envision also. [/b]

So because I didn't know what the deal was with Michael Haynes I don't know the Bears? OK, whatever.

According to NFL.com and ESPN Benson had 67 carries for 272 yards, an average of 4.1 yards per carry. Not sure where you're getting this 4.5 yards per carry thing. And I DO think that Jones is a very good back with Pro Bowl potential. I like him alot. That is why I think Benson was a wasted pick. Why not use the #5 pick to get someone at an area of greater need. He sucked in Detroit (because it is Detroit after all) but most Bear fans I know were praying they get Mike Williams. Of course, if Benson turns into the next Larry Johnson to Jones' Priest Holmes I'll take it all back.

And I said their O-line is good, but they are getting up their in age. They could have used one of their second round picks on a linemen to groom as Miller's replacement such as Eric Winston, or Mercedes Lewis, or Chad Jackson, or Jimmy Williams. Hell, if you're so happy about Benson and want to keep loading up on RB's they could have taken DeAngelo Williams. But too late now, I'm sure Gage will FINALLY step up. I'm sure Bradley will play every game for the rest of his life like he did that single game against Detroit. And hey man, if you're happy with Desmond Clark and hs 24 receptions a year good for you.

Did I say Manning wouldn't contribute? NO. I'm asking you how he has been doing so far. I follow the Bears, but not their minicamps and OTA's. Nick Collins came from a small school and did fine for us last year, but pretty much everyone here was surprised at how well he did play. It can certainly be done, but it is a big step forward.

Geez, you act like I bashed every single player on the team. You might be the first Bear fan i've ever talked to who likes Qasim. If you actually think he's solid you're dumber than I thought :mrgreen:

Never said I liked Qasim, but he is serviceable in spot relief. You said you watch them every week so I assumed you meant EVERY WEEK. Then you would have known that Lovie was praising Clark and you would have known about the Haynes switch. 4.1 instead of 4.5 wow! I was really off on that one. Once again for spot play he did good until he was injured. You speak of Gage but he isnt even the second on the WR depth chart, Bradley is and then possibly Berrian. And both of those Backup WR's played better than all the packer WR's outside of Driver who is a #1 WR.
I was one of the Bear fans that wanted Mike Williams cuz just like alot of fans I got caught up in the hype. Go over to the Bears board now. You will see that no one regrets taking Benson over Williams. They took Benson cuz he was believed to be the best at the #4 spot. Some will question if Caddy should have been picked but after further review it was a no brainer between him and Williams.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't like Benson much. I thought he was overrated before the draft, and nothing he did last year made me change my mind. Jones is better. They should just stick with him. Haynes is playing DT--mostly because they are concerned about the future of Tank Johnson. Desmond Clark? You can't be sticking up for that guy. I have him in a Madden style league I'm in. He's ordinary, at best. Like most years, the Bears have a great defense and a below average offense. Some years, that gets you 11 wins, some 9 wins, and if your defense gets injured a lot (which has been a problem for the Bears), you get a below .500 team. I suspect the Bears will be a 9 or 10 win team--and that likely wins them the North in 2006.

[Bossman641]

I live in ILL and I watch the Bears nearly every week. i'm very familiar with their roster, here's my take.
well you must not be paying close attention..

QB I honestly think it's too soon to proclaim Grossman the real deal. For all the savior talk he gets from Bear fans, he's still only played in 8 games in his career. 4 Td's, 6 Int's, and a 54% completion rate. He also has 5 fumbles in those 8 games. Turner does call the game very differently when Grossman is in the game though. The threat alone of throwing the deep ball changes their offense completely.
I havent proclaimed Grossman as the starter. I said the QB possition with him and Griese is the best they have had in 20 years. That in effect means that is an improvement in that area.

RB I like Thomas Jones alot. He runs hard, can catch the ball, and doesn't fumble. Adrian Peterson is a nice change of pace back. I still think that Benson was a wasted pick last year but it's too early to say for sure. There's only so many carries to go around.
Once again the validity in the statements you make are so flawed its ridiculous. The Bears have a 1300 yd back in Jones, and the top rusher from college in Benson. Please tell me how Beson was a wasted pick? He averaged over 4.5 yds per game when he did touch the ball last year and would have had more if it wasnt for Jones shining so much. Peterson just produces every chance he gets and he is the 3rd RB on the depth chart! RB possition is probaly the deepest and most secure on the team. Give true logic behind your statments next time.

WR Honestly, their WR do not scare me. I understand Moose had fewer opportunities with Orton at the helm, but he had A LOT of drops last year. He'll give you 70 or so catches and 7-8 TD's but he is getting up there in age. You never know when he'll lose the marginal amount of speed that he has. They were waiting for Gage to step up all last year, didn't happen. Bradley had 1 good game last year before he got injured, too soon to proclaim him a capable starter. Berrian can stretch the field but again, too soon to say he's starter material.

OL Their line is good but Miller, Kreutz, and Brown are getting up there in age. I like Garza but if one your your tackles gets injured and you have to play Qasim Mitchell you are fucked. He is terrible.
Mitchel is not the only backup on the team. and he is solid in the rotation in spelled moments. Still the O-line is more solid than anything in the NFC north.

DL I really like this position. The ends are good and Idonije is a good backup. Tommie Harris is a beast and they have a good roation at DT. Haynes hasn't lived up to his draft position though. Why is that?
Hmmm, if you have been watching the Bears you would know this answer. He was drafted under Dick Jauron who wanted him to gain weight for there scheme, then Lovie came and wanted him to lose weight for his quick line scheme. He wasnt blasting off da line quick enough so in comes O-gun via trade of Booker, and now Haynes has been moved to DT to make a four man rotation inside that no team can match. Once again a strong point.

LB Urlacher and Briggs, what can I say. All the other LB has to do is not make mental mistakes and you'll be fine.
Just like I been saying, and how many teams have one all pro LB not to mention TWO!

CB I don't think Vasher is as good as his numbers indicate. He's not a shutdown guy. Tillman struggled last year, can throw on him all day. Who knows about Manning. I dunno if there will be any disciplinary action.
Tilman has been caught deep before but you cant just throw on him. But he does have problems with elite speedy WR's. The average #1 WR has no chance against him. Vasher may not be as good as his numbers indicate and like i said before I NEVER SAID HE WAS A SHUTDOWN CB. No CB in the league is. So saying that I will take his numbers over any of your CB numbers anyday since INT's means the other team no longer has the ball and you offense has an extra chance to score. There will be do action taken by the team in regards to manning, they have already said so. In his case the field production is all that matters right now.

S Brown's had injury problems and I've always thought he was a little overrated, still very good though. I thought Harris did a good job for a rookie. That's why I was surprised at the Bear's draft.
Brown is solid period. He would start for any team in the NFC north. Harris was soid for a rookie but he was caught out of possition some times and his recovery speed isnt great if he bites on a play. Enter Manning(the rookie) and his outstanding speed and atheliticism and may the best man win. Once again a soid possition made stronger.

I thought the Bears' draft sucked. Desmond Clark is nothing special and I thought for sure they would target a TE. Manning is coming from a small school. Will he contribute this year? Devin Hester is nothing special as a CB. Sure he can return kicks, but is it really worth a second round pick to grab a returner, especially when you need offensive help.
I thought you said you been watching the Bears? If so you will notice that Lovie said the player that stood out the most and looked outstanding with his catches and improved speed is Clark. Why should they have drafted a TE? which one would have been better than Clark? EXACTLY. "Manning is coming froma small school"....uh, is that all you have to say to disaprove of this pick? I'm sure I dont have to mention how many good to great players came from small schools in the NFL. He will compete for the starting FS possition and may start by week 3. Hester not only returns kicks, he was the best in doing so last year in college. You need to watch clips of this kid, hes pretty much amazing at what he does when he touches the ball. no one can ever cath him if he gets a step on them. And he finds seems that only a slim jim can fit through. Big upgrade from fumble4u Wade. He will come in on Dime Packages and earn his keep. The Bears offensive help was only apparent at QB last year when Orton was tossing the pig skin. The WR's were getting open but he kept throwing into the stands! Grossman came back in the last weeks and moved down the field with no problem. and the Runig game was solid all year even when everyone knew they had to run. So please stop following lead by saying they needed to draft offense when there was no offensive player on the board that would help the team more than the players they took. Anytime a team is not picking in the top half of the draft they more than likely get looked at as having a poor draft cuz they dont pick a player that was on ESPN for months leading up to the Draft.

I have a question for you Baddest Bear. Is Lovie involved with the offense at all, or is that strictly under the control of Turner? Lovie is a good coach although he made some mistakes last year (poor clock management, etc). I like Rivera and thought somebody would pick him up as a coach this offseason. I predict 10-6 or 11-5 for the Bears.
Lovie is involved on both sides of the ball but more so with defense than offense. I do think he made some mistakes on clock management during one game last year. All coaches make mistakes its how they learn how to not make them again is what make them great. Your prediction is what I envision also. [/b]

So because I didn't know what the deal was with Michael Haynes I don't know the Bears? OK, whatever.

According to NFL.com and ESPN Benson had 67 carries for 272 yards, an average of 4.1 yards per carry. Not sure where you're getting this 4.5 yards per carry thing. And I DO think that Jones is a very good back with Pro Bowl potential. I like him alot. That is why I think Benson was a wasted pick. Why not use the #5 pick to get someone at an area of greater need. He sucked in Detroit (because it is Detroit after all) but most Bear fans I know were praying they get Mike Williams. Of course, if Benson turns into the next Larry Johnson to Jones' Priest Holmes I'll take it all back.

And I said their O-line is good, but they are getting up their in age. They could have used one of their second round picks on a linemen to groom as Miller's replacement such as Eric Winston, or Mercedes Lewis, or Chad Jackson, or Jimmy Williams. Hell, if you're so happy about Benson and want to keep loading up on RB's they could have taken DeAngelo Williams. But too late now, I'm sure Gage will FINALLY step up. I'm sure Bradley will play every game for the rest of his life like he did that single game against Detroit. And hey man, if you're happy with Desmond Clark and hs 24 receptions a year good for you.

Did I say Manning wouldn't contribute? NO. I'm asking you how he has been doing so far. I follow the Bears, but not their minicamps and OTA's. Nick Collins came from a small school and did fine for us last year, but pretty much everyone here was surprised at how well he did play. It can certainly be done, but it is a big step forward.

Geez, you act like I bashed every single player on the team. You might be the first Bear fan i've ever talked to who likes Qasim. If you actually think he's solid you're dumber than I thought :mrgreen:

Never said I liked Qasim, but he is serviceable in spot relief. You said you watch them every week so I assumed you meant EVERY WEEK. Then you would have known that Lovie was praising Clark and you would have known about the Haynes switch. 4.1 instead of 4.5 wow! I was really off on that one. Once again for spot play he did good until he was injured. You speak of Gage but he isnt even the second on the WR depth chart, Bradley is and then possibly Berrian. And both of those Backup WR's played better than all the packer WR's outside of Driver who is a #1 WR.
I was one of the Bear fans that wanted Mike Williams cuz just like alot of fans I got caught up in the hype. Go over to the Bears board now. You will see that no one regrets taking Benson over Williams. They took Benson cuz he was believed to be the best at the #4 spot. Some will question if Caddy should have been picked but after further review it was a no brainer between him and Williams.

Walter Payton 4.4 yards per carry for his career.
Dorsey Levens 4.0 yards per carry for his career.

Hey no big deal man. I'd say they are about equal. By your standards they're pretty much the same player. Why don't you man up and admit you fucked up on Benson's stats instead of making excuses.

OMG, Berrian and Bradley? I'm terrified. Nevermind the fact that they have a combined 46 catches for 701 yards in their careers. Jerry Rice must be scared shitless.

The fact that you consider to stick up for Desmond Clark shows how clueless you are.

[Bossman641]

BTW, learn how to read.

I wrote
I live in ILL and I watch the Bears nearly every week.

According to you I said
You said you watch them every week so I assumed you meant EVERY WEEK.

It's OK. I'm sure you have a reading disability. After all, you are a Bears fan. That's probably why you thought Benson averaged 4.5 yards a carry when he actually averaged 4.1. But again, by your logic, those numbers are pretty much the same thing.

[Dabaddestbear]

Walter Payton 4.4 yards per carry for his career.
Dorsey Levens 4.0 yards per carry for his career.

Hey no big deal man. I'd say they are about equal. By your standards they're pretty much the same player. Why don't you man up and admit you fucked up on Benson's stats instead of making excuses.

OMG, Berrian and Bradley? I'm terrified. Nevermind the fact that they have a combined 46 catches for 701 yards in their careers. Jerry Rice must be scared shitless.

The fact that you consider to stick up for Desmond Clark shows how clueless you are.
Man thats sad your mind works that way. :cry: I think they have meds to reverse those effects. By my standards I was saying I was off by a few yardage average not by comparison of how great a player is.
Well they both were injured last year and one was only in his second year, the other a rookie. Only to add to thte fact that neither was a starter. So to say 701 yrds in there CAREERS means very little.
And in Berrians little time played last year he consistantly found a way to blow past defenses on deep routes. As a matter of fact one of those deep routes left packer defenders gasping for air while he ran past your speedy Caroll and Collins.
Funny how you keep saying I am taking up for Clark, when I was just clearly stating what the Coach said on TV in an interview after pratice. But of course you already know that since you watch them so much...lol :roll:
Your just too bright for me kid :?

[RashanGary]

The Bears have a chacne to compete for a Superbowl this year. I believe they are that good.

I don't think they can keep it up for long but they have a window that is right now. I don't see any HOF players who can carry that team for the long term life Favre did with GB, but they have alot of really good ones right now.

[Dabaddestbear]

BTW, learn how to read.

It's OK. I'm sure you have a reading disability. After all, you are a Bears fan. That's probably why you thought Benson averaged 4.5 yards a carry when he actually averaged 4.1. But again, by your logic, those numbers are pretty much the same thing.
Hey everybody I assumed a guy had a 4.5 average when he only had a 4.1 average! Help me, how could I have been so stupid. :cry:
The infamous Bossman has figured out that I dont google search stats before I qoute them. I am so sorry for my errors in judgement of the knowledge you posses. May the Football gods forgive me.

Football Gods reposnse: Dont worry mortal. No one can be as anal as Bossman he will be punished for his misguided behaviour by having to suffer by watching the team he roots for not win no more than 6 games this year while watching his QB get killed on every play! :evil:

DaBaddestBear: But do he deserve such pain?

Football Gods reposnse:Well since we do like his pagan god Favre ever so much we will allow him to get killed on every other play.

DaBaddestBear:Thank you for showing mercy on the foolish , for he knows not what he do.

Football Gods reposnse:My son, mercy will be shown only by your asking. And in return I will make sure that Da Bears demoralize his team twice this year. :twisted:
Now excuse me for I have to prepare chips and dip for my visitors Pappa Bear Halas and Mr. Lombardi. We have a movie night prepared, oh how I love that Brian's Song!!

[Bossman641]

Man thats sad your mind works that way. I think they have meds to reverse those effects. By my standards I was saying I was off by a few yardage average not by comparison of how great a player is.
Well they both were injured last year and one was only in his second year, the other a rookie. Only to add to thte fact that neither was a starter. So to say 701 yrds in there CAREERS means very little.
And in Berrians little time played last year he consistantly found a way to blow past defenses on deep routes. As a matter of fact one of those deep routes left packer defenders gasping for air while he ran past your speedy Caroll and Collins.
Funny how you keep saying I am taking up for Clark, when I was just clearly stating what the Coach said on TV in an interview after pratice. But of course you already know that since you watch them so much...lol
Your just too bright for me kid

Are you kidding me? YOU'RE the one who was bragging earlier about how great Benson was (4.5 yards per carry, top rusher from college). He's in the NFL now, I don't care how he did in college. Ron Dayne was also the leading rusher in college. And hey, who cares about stats? Instead we can make meaningless statements and back them up with absolutely no proof. Then we can just argue back and forth all day.

That's exactly my point about Berrian and Bradley. They have proven very little so far but you're the one who was going on and on about how talented they are.

[Fosco33]

Here's how I see things shaping up:

Defense will rule the North this year with both Chicago and GB fielding competitive units (obvious edge to the Bears). Both have question marks on Offense.

IMO, the Vikes (and all their Badger staff) will struggle early with a slew of changes over the offseason and field a competitive team down the stretch. Regarding the Lions - I think Millen has stained that org and they'll bring up the rear again.

Bears 11-5
Packers 9-7
Vikings 7-9
Detroit 5-11

That was a shot in the dark and as valid as any June prediction given the parity in the NFL and the huge unknown factor (injuries). Anything can, and will, happen.

[Bretsky]

My comparison of Bears vs. Packers

The Packers QB is way > than the Bears
The Packers WR's are > than the Bears
The Packers TE's are > than the Bears
Healthy, GB's RB's and the Bears RB's are a wash
The Bears OL is way > than the Packers

The Bears Special Teams are > than the Packers

The Bears DL is > than the Packers
The Bears LB's are > than the Packers
The Packers CB's are > than the Bears
The Bears Safeties, barely > than the Packers

IF both teams are injury free, I'd argue the Bears have slightly more talent than GB, but it's closer than Bear fans will admit.

[Fosco33]

My comparison of Bears vs. Packers

The Packers QB is way > than the Bears
The Packers WR's are > than the Bears
The Packers TE's are > than the Bears
Healthy, GB's RB's and the Bears RB's are a wash
The Bears OL is way > than the Packers

The Bears Special Teams are > than the Packers

The Bears DL is > than the Packers
The Bears LB's are > than the Packers
The Packers CB's are > than the Bears
The Bears Safeties, barely > than the Packers

IF both teams are injury free, I'd argue the Bears have slightly more talent than GB, but it's closer than Bear fans will admit.

Not sure on the WRs.... I'm hoping you're right, though.

What about Bears vs. Vikings or Packers vs. Vikings? What about Detroit - ahh don't waste your time with Detroit....

[Harlan Huckleby]

Healthy, GB's RB's and the Bears RB's are a wash


homer

well, ok, maybe if we send green back in a time capsule a couple years. But Bears got two excellent RB's.

[Dabaddestbear]

Man thats sad your mind works that way. I think they have meds to reverse those effects. By my standards I was saying I was off by a few yardage average not by comparison of how great a player is.
Well they both were injured last year and one was only in his second year, the other a rookie. Only to add to thte fact that neither was a starter. So to say 701 yrds in there CAREERS means very little.
And in Berrians little time played last year he consistantly found a way to blow past defenses on deep routes. As a matter of fact one of those deep routes left packer defenders gasping for air while he ran past your speedy Caroll and Collins.
Funny how you keep saying I am taking up for Clark, when I was just clearly stating what the Coach said on TV in an interview after pratice. But of course you already know that since you watch them so much...lol
Your just too bright for me kid

Are you kidding me? YOU'RE the one who was bragging earlier about how great Benson was (4.5 yards per carry, top rusher from college). He's in the NFL now, I don't care how he did in college. Ron Dayne was also the leading rusher in college. And hey, who cares about stats? Instead we can make meaningless statements and back them up with absolutely no proof. Then we can just argue back and forth all day.

That's exactly my point about Berrian and Bradley. They have proven very little so far but you're the one who was going on and on about how talented they are.
I wasnt going on and on I was statiing the obvious. They are better than the Packers WR's. I wasnt saying how great he is, for I dont know. But he was great in college and did good in his limited time before getting injured.

[Dabaddestbear]

My comparison of Bears vs. Packers

The Packers QB is way > than the Bears ---True...Although the Bears QB's dont score many points, they wont give the other team as many points either.

The Packers WR's are > than the Bears ---False, Driver and Moose is Equal, Berrian, Bradley and Gage is faster and have have better skills than any wr on the pack team not named Driver. This would not had been the case if Walker was still there.

The Packers TE's are > than the Bears ---uhmm, yeah a few years ago. last year Franks got knocked out twice! once by a smaller DB. He hasnt produced in over two years. Clark numbers are low cuz this system doesnt toss the ball his way often. Franks is solid for 3 yard curls in the endzone, but beyond that he has become invisible.

Healthy, GB's RB's and the Bears RB's are a wash ---c'mon man be serious. I could write a book about how wrong this statement is.

The Bears OL is way > than the Packers ---The Bears have a solid line and I wouldnt say way better overall cuz the tackles on the pack are solid, now that middle is way worse than the Bears.

The Bears Special Teams are > than the Packers --yep, and getting Hester to return punts for us just made it that much better.:twisted:

The Bears DL is > than the Packers
The Bears LB's are > than the Packers
The Packers CB's are > than the Bears
The Bears Safeties, barely > than the Packers _
I agree with the above 100%

IF both teams are injury free, I'd argue the Bears have slightly more talent than GB, but it's closer than Bear fans will admit.

I knew when I took the time out to do some homework the foolishness would run rampant. One thing you overlook is no matter how great you think your saviour QB is, with no solid middle he will be on his back more times than not. It seems as if each year lately GB is trying its best to make Bretts life harder under center. Die Slow Brett, Die Slow!! :twisted:

[Dabaddestbear]

The Bears are just not that impressive, on many levels.
I think the division is wide open.

I just don't see all the talent on the Bears that some others see.
To me, they look extremely thin overall.

I live near Chicago - and have watched every game they've played. Even watched some practice in Lake Forest.
Sorry, just don't see the perceived talent gap at all.
Repeat : the division is a crapshoot.

...The Packers are on the way back up -and I like that a whole lot better.

Ok, this clip is just of Brett against the Bears last year. And is one othe reasons why the above statements in this thread just dont make sense.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zjh75einvQ4&search=Favre%202005

[Fosco33]

The Bears are just not that impressive, on many levels.
I think the division is wide open.

I just don't see all the talent on the Bears that some others see.
To me, they look extremely thin overall.

I live near Chicago - and have watched every game they've played. Even watched some practice in Lake Forest.
Sorry, just don't see the perceived talent gap at all.
Repeat : the division is a crapshoot.

...The Packers are on the way back up -and I like that a whole lot better.

Ok, this clip is just of Brett against the Bears last year. And is one othe reasons why the above statements in this thread just dont make sense.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zjh75einvQ4&search=Favre%202005

If you like those, check these out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_y5UZmTPHk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vcjKe3G4Is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnt63uPUy3Q

[K-town]

Hey, daBaddestBear...tell me when was the last playoff game DaBears won?
I am seriously wondering. I'm thinking the upset of Minnesota in "94...but please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks, dude. :mrgreen:

Note: capitalized Bears, as a sign of respect. :wink:

[Bretsky]

Healthy, GB's RB's and the Bears RB's are a wash


homer

well, ok, maybe if we send green back in a time capsule a couple years. But Bears got two excellent RB's.


Cedrick Benson has shown me little so far; Thomas Jones is OK. If Ahman Green could stay healthy I think he'd still be OK.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Cedrick Benson has shown me little so far; Thomas Jones is OK. If Ahman Green could stay healthy I think he'd still be OK.

First we have to see if Ahman Green can GET healthy, then worry about him staying healthy. We don't know if he'll be back to a 100%.

And once he is healthy, we have to find out if last year's poor performance was due to crappy O-line, or Green declining.

[The Shadow]

Benson is a disappointment.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Benson is a disappointment.

ah hell, I wouldn't say that. Jones was excellent, they didn't play the rookie much.

[The Shadow]

He has major attitude problems & seems a lot like that "A Train" of a few seasons back : heavy, slow, average instincts.

[Harlan Huckleby]

heavy, slow, average instincts.

sounds like the Packer RB stable! (other than Green, if he makes miraculous comeback.)

[The Shadow]

Yes, but 2 rookie cut-blocking naturals will open up enormous holes!

[Dabaddestbear]

Hey, daBaddestBear...tell me when was the last playoff game DaBears won?
I am seriously wondering. I'm thinking the upset of Minnesota in "94...but please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks, dude. :mrgreen:

Note: capitalized Bears, as a sign of respect. :wink:
Its been so long I dnt even remember, and I dont feel like google searchin it...lol.
But this team and coaching staff is alot different than the past ones. If Packer fans cant see that then I dont mind taking any of you guys money at Major Goolsbys downtown milwaukee on opening day. :twisted:

[Fosco33]

Hey, daBaddestBear...tell me when was the last playoff game DaBears won?
I am seriously wondering. I'm thinking the upset of Minnesota in "94...but please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks, dude. :mrgreen:

Note: capitalized Bears, as a sign of respect. :wink:
Its been so long I dnt even remember, and I dont feel like google searchin it...lol.
But this team and coaching staff is alot different than the past ones. If Packer fans cant see that then I dont mind taking any of you guys money at Major Goolsbys downtown milwaukee on opening day. :twisted:

From BearsHistory.com:

In the '94 season for the first time in the league's history, the NFC Central sent 4 teams to the playoffs, Minnesota, Detroit, Green Bay, and the Bears. First up for the Bears was a third matchup with Minnesota in the Metrodome, a game no one gave the Bears a possibility to win. Behind Steve Walsh's careful play, the Bears did shock Minnesota 35-18, their first road playoff win since 1984. This win allowed the Bears to advance to San Francisco in the divisional playoff. The 49ers were heavy favorites, and they demolished the Bears 44-15 en route to their Super Bowl victory.

GB took care of Detroit that year (Sanders had -1 yrds on 13 carries) and went on to lose to the Boys (again).

[OS PA]

I just don't see all the talent on the Bears that some others see.
To me, they look extremely thin overall.


They have 2 DEs better than Kampman and KGB. Both are serious pass rushers.

They have this generations warren sapp and best pass rushing tackle in the league in Harris. Their other DT is a big fatty who can stop the run. Both starters are better than anyone we have.

Urlacher and Briggs are both better than our best linebacker by a landslide.

Vasher is better than any corner we have. Brown is a better defensive back than any we have.

They're very, very, very good defensively.
(Haven't read any of the other posts but something came to my mind)

I mostly agree with you, but one thing comes to my mind. The Packers Defensive gameplan and the Bears Defensive gameplan are two completely different types of animals.

Ours is built on technique, finesse, and speed.
Theirs is built on strength, speed, and quality tackling.

The one thing we used to have in common with them was a very good defensive coaching staff, but that may change with the deletion of Bates in our scheme. My hope is that the scheme this year is completely identical to last years so the knowledge of the playbook will override the lack of coaching quality.

In your "breakdown" of the roster you are correct on many points such as

Urlacher being better than any of our LB's and their D-line having more talent.

Here are some interesting stats to look at however

Rushing Yards Allowed Per Game
Bears: 102.3
Packers: 125.6

Rushing Touchdowns Allowed
Bears: 9
Packers: 10

Runs of 20+ Yards Allowed
Bears: 8
Packers: 10

Passing Yards Allowed Per Game
Bears: 167.5
Packers: 179.5

Sacks
Bears: 41
Packers: 35

These stats show that our teams aren't very different defensively. The bears do edge us out in all categories, but all in all we're pretty even teams.

Now with all of this equality, wheres the difference that sets us apart? Turnovers and Touchdowns.

Passing Touchdowns allowed
Bears: 10
Packers: 22

Interceptions
Bears: 24
Packers: 10

Apparent eh? Chicago definitely edges us in both categories.

One More stat to give.

Defensive Plays
Bears: 1034
Packers: 969

Thats a 75 play difference. What am I getting at?
The Packers could have caught up to Chicago in those 75 plays? Hell no.
The Bears with less plays could have had lower stats? Yes.


Now, what sets us appart?
Linebackers? No
Cornerbacks? No
Secondary? No
Pass Rush, Pass Rush, Pass Rush? Yes

Pass Rush is all that matters, the Bears D-line made their secondary look like gods. Our D-line made our secondary look like Gods too.

Yes the Bears are the better defensive team, but by a smaller margin than expected.

Now lets look to 2006.

The Bears starting defense is completely the same, other than the training camp demotions they will probably perform equally to last year.

The Packer Starting defense is completely re-tooled and upgraded. Upgraded Safety, Upgraded Linebackers, Upgraded Cornerbacks, Upgraded Defensive Tackles, and last but not least people a potential run-stopping Defensive end to spell KGB.

I'm not saying that we now, because of upgrades are going to be the better defensive team next year, we should, however, be able to close the small gap to being equal.

[Partial]

I 100% agree with your asessment on the pass rush. They are RIDICULOUSLY fast at getting to the passer. I, for one, think if Grady was as overrated as the big time OL guys here claim (specifically ND) (I am not sure how I feel on this matter) and Pickett can draw a double team whereas Grady was single teamed last year, we should have significantly more pass rush from inside from Williams and Jenkins. That will be very, very good because that is how the Bears collapse the pocket so fast.

Here's hoping ND's right!!

edit - man that was worded horribly. The point I was trying to get across is the guys on this forum that I believe really know their offensive line stuff tend to think Grady was washed up and much less effective then the rest of us and that Pickett will be a HUGE step up. If that is the case, and Pickett can draw a double team consistently (where as Grady was single blocked last year), we will free up our interior pass rushers in Jenkins and Williams to collapse the pocket.

[Dabaddestbear]

I 100% agree with your asessment on the pass rush. They are RIDICULOUSLY fast at getting to the passer. I, for one, think if Grady was as overrated as the big time OL guys here claim (specifically ND) (I am not sure how I feel on this matter) and Pickett can draw a double team whereas Grady was single teamed last year, we should have significantly more pass rush from inside from Williams and Jenkins. That will be very, very good because that is how the Bears collapse the pocket so fast.

Here's hoping ND's right!!

edit - man that was worded horribly. The point I was trying to get across is the guys on this forum that I believe really know their offensive line stuff tend to think Grady was washed up and much less effective then the rest of us and that Pickett will be a HUGE step up. If that is the case, and Pickett can draw a double team consistently (where as Grady was single blocked last year), we will free up our interior pass rushers in Jenkins and Williams to collapse the pocket.
I just think that Pickett will not be that much different than grady was last year. I could be wrong though.

[Dabaddestbear]

Hey, daBaddestBear...tell me when was the last playoff game DaBears won?
I am seriously wondering. I'm thinking the upset of Minnesota in "94...but please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks, dude. :mrgreen:

Note: capitalized Bears, as a sign of respect. :wink:
Its been so long I dnt even remember, and I dont feel like google searchin it...lol.
But this team and coaching staff is alot different than the past ones. If Packer fans cant see that then I dont mind taking any of you guys money at Major Goolsbys downtown milwaukee on opening day. :twisted:

From BearsHistory.com:

In the '94 season for the first time in the league's history, the NFC Central sent 4 teams to the playoffs, Minnesota, Detroit, Green Bay, and the Bears. First up for the Bears was a third matchup with Minnesota in the Metrodome, a game no one gave the Bears a possibility to win. Behind Steve Walsh's careful play, the Bears did shock Minnesota 35-18, their first road playoff win since 1984. This win allowed the Bears to advance to San Francisco in the divisional playoff. The 49ers were heavy favorites, and they demolished the Bears 44-15 en route to their Super Bowl victory.

GB took care of Detroit that year (Sanders had -1 yrds on 13 carries) and went on to lose to the Boys (again).
UGH!!! why did you have to remind me of that year? I remember my uncle went to jail after that game for beating the crap out of somebody cuz he lost a bet on chicago and had to pay a pretty sum. Afterwards the guy kept throwing it in his face in a not so kind manner. Well he was in the hospital for about 4 days when uncle Buck got finished with him. Sore loser he was, but a good fighter. :twisted:

[Deputy Nutz]

Uncle Buck? Your Uncle was John Candy? God rest his soul, I loved him in the Great Outdoors.

Anyways, I am not going to argue that the Bears defense is better than the Packers, anybody with any real football knowledge can figure that out. What you have to look at in the off-season, especially if your looking for a little hope you have to see what teams made improvements on paper. The Packers have done that. Adding Pickett and Woodson in free agency, Hawk, Hodge, and Blackmon in the draft your looking at upgrades in all three phases of the defense.

I agree with it coming back to the pass rush, the Packers have done a pitiful job at getting to the QB, and the Bears are damn good at it. The fact is that KGB needs to consistently get to the QB, and Kampman needs to learn how to get there on a regular basis and get into the double digit sack category. Inside pressure is also important, and the Packers are going to be better here than they have been in years. Grady Jackson just didn't have that push or the speed to burst through the gaps that made him an unbelievable force in years past. Can Pickett equal that? I sure hope so, but he is more of a run stuffer, but the Packer defensive tackle that gets the best bull rush is Collin Cole. He is a stout fire plug that keeps his legs going. Hopefully the combination of Williams and Jenkins will give an agile sack attack up the middle.

[The Leaper]

Don't forget Montgomery either. He showed flashes of ability at the end of last year, and hopefully he will develop into a real contributor in 2006. He certainly has the physical talent to be a player...he dropped in the draft because of the concerns on his stamina and potential health risks. He has more size than KGB, and is more stout against the run. He could provide much needed spells for KGB, so he is more effective in rushing the passer on 2nd and 3rd downs.

[Dabaddestbear]

Uncle Buck? Your Uncle was John Candy? God rest his soul, I loved him in the Great Outdoors.

Yeah that last name is ironicly the same as the character Candy played. Buck was about the size too, just more of a solid build. But he passed away last november at an early age--45(walking Pneumonia). We were like brothers and my only Bear fan buddy here in WI.

[PackerPro42]

Yes the Bear's D is very very solid, but I think that the Packers D has improved a lot this off-season.

[MadtownPacker]

Pickett is a perfect fit for this D. His fat ass just needs to clog up the middle and let everyone work around him. I thought Grady did very well and wish we had both.

Dline has been the main contributer to all the big plays against the Packers in recent history IMO. Watching QBs have all day to throw weekly drives me insane on gameday. Seems like the Dline was never hustling. Not sure if clediius hunt had alot to do with it but I am happy to blame lazy bastards like him. I have some concern about Pickkett being another hunt.

[Fosco33]

Pickett is a perfect fit for this D. His fat ass just needs to clog up the middle and let everyone work around him. I thought Grady did very well and wish we had both.

Dline has been the main contributer to all the big plays against the Packers in recent history IMO. Watching QBs have all day to throw weekly drives me insane on gameday. Seems like the Dline was never hustling. Not sure if clediius hunt had alot to do with it but I am happy to blame lazy bastards like him. I have some concern about Pickkett being another hunt.

Agreed. When guys like Grady and the Gravedigger were healthy, they often clogged up the middle and forced double teams - hopefully freeing up the other tackle/DE to do some damage. I'm hopefull that KGB can bounce back and get another 10-12 sack season (note: In 2004, he became the first Packers player to post double-digit sacks in three consecutive seasons. Only three other NFL players – Michael Strahan, Simeon Rice and Leonard Little – have done the same over the past three years).

I really like the Packer's D :cool:

[PackerPro42]

Yeah I can't wait to see Pickett in action.

[Partial]

I have some concern about Pickkett being another hunt.

Same here, he was pegged as an underachiever until this year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Same here, he was pegged as an underachiever until this year.

I wouldn't say this is fair. A lot of people that watch the Rams closely felt like he wasn't necessarily dominant, but that he got unfairly lumped in with the likes of Damione Lewis and Jimmy Kennedy as first round busts at DT for the Rams. He was better than those guys. His numbers have been comparable to Grady Jackson the last 4 years.