2006 Draft Class for the Pack

[Tony Oday]

Green Bay Packers' 2006 draft class
Rd (No.) Player Pos. College

1 (5) A.J. Hawk LB Ohio State
Has 100-plus tackles in each of his first two seasons. Already has two sacks this year (sack leaders).

2 (47) Daryn Colledge OG Boise State
Fixture on Packers' line since rookie season.

2 (52) Greg Jennings WR Western Michigan
Has three receptions of 40-plus yards this season (more WR stats) after gaining 920 yards and 12 TDs a year ago.

3 (75) Jason Spitz OG Louisville
Versatile lineman filling in at center for injured Scott Wells.

4 (115) Will Blackmon KR/CB Boston College
Returned punt 76 yards for touchdown in Week 1 (Video).

6 (183) Johnny Jolly DT Texas A&M
Starter at tackle in both games this season.



Saw this on the nfl.com article about Jennings not too shaby a draft class I would think 6 people contributing.

[Zool]

5 starters. Not bad.

[mraynrand]

Green Bay Packers' 2006 draft class
Rd (No.) Player Pos. College

1 (5) A.J. Hawk LB Ohio State
Has 100-plus tackles in each of his first two seasons. Already has two sacks this year (sack leaders).

2 (47) Daryn Colledge OG Boise State
Fixture on Packers' line since rookie season.

2 (52) Greg Jennings WR Western Michigan
Has three receptions of 40-plus yards this season (more WR stats) after gaining 920 yards and 12 TDs a year ago.

3 (75) Jason Spitz OG Louisville
Versatile lineman filling in at center for injured Scott Wells.

4 (115) Will Blackmon KR/CB Boston College
Returned punt 76 yards for touchdown in Week 1 (Video).

6 (183) Johnny Jolly DT Texas A&M
Starter at tackle in both games this season.



Saw this on the nfl.com article about Jennings not too shaby a draft class I would think 6 people contributing.

I said two years ago this had to be an outstanding class - the Class that makes or breaks the squad for at least five years. They suffered a 4-12 season to get the #5 overall pick and top pick in each round. They traded Walker to get the extra #2 pick. With that kind of set-up, you have to make it work. If you don't, you end up like Cleveland. Really, with the #5 pick, you have to hope Hawk gives them even more than he's shown already.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Really, with the #5 pick, you have to hope Hawk gives them even more than he's shown already.

I'm a big Hawk guy, but I don't agree with this line of thinking. I believe Hawk is a near Pro Bowl caliber LB. He takes on blocks. He's assignment sure. He's a great tackler. His coverage abilities are solid. Those things don't garner a lot of press, but they are important. He hasn't been allowed to blitz a lot. I think if he stays at this level for the next 6 years, he will have justified his draft position.

[boiga]

Really, with the #5 pick, you have to hope Hawk gives them even more than he's shown already.

I disagree that Hawk has to show more. I really don't know how much more he could do. He's a force against the run and vicious while blitzing. If he keeps up this level of play for another 5 years, I can't imagine how we could complain.

[oregonpackfan]

Percentage wise, that is a very high return on a draft class. Great work by TT and his scouting staff!

[Harlan Huckleby]

best draft I can think of.
maybe '95 is close:

Craig Newsome
Darius Holland
William Henderson
Brian Williams
Antonio Freeman
Travis Jervey
Adam Timmerman

http://www.southendzone.com/draft/

[mission]

best draft I can think of.
maybe '95 is close:

Craig Newsome
Darius Holland
William Henderson
Brian Williams
Antonio Freeman
Travis Jervey
Adam Timmerman

http://www.southendzone.com/draft/

Very strong.

One day I could see looking back and being able to put both Jennings and Hawk in a league one step above the top on that list. Those guys were all very good and consistent (for the most part) but our two young studs are STUD STUDS yafeelme?! :D

[bobblehead]

I'm still high on college, but hey, we all got that one guy we just can't accept isn't going to be a stud...for me its college. I think he has been ok for a young guy, but I still have hope that he breaks out and becomes a big time NFL lineman. He shows flashes, but then he loses focus and gets blown up....if he can just keep it even.

[rbaloha1]

Why does the Packer Nation continually question TT?

TT has positioned the Packers as a perennial super bowl contender.

Where is the love?

[MadtownPacker]

Where the hell is anyone questioning TT???? IF you actually READ the post people are complimenting him.

[uwwlg]

Why does the Packer Nation continually question TT?

TT has positioned the Packers as a perennial super bowl contender.

Where is the love?

Personally, I couldn't be happier with TT at this point. There have been plenty of people lining up to second guess his decisions, but in time, he's shown that he made the best decisions for the good of the organization in nearly every case (Moss and Harrell being my only gray area decisions)

I love the fact that I get to watch a strong, contending team every Sunday and given extensions to players that perform at a high level. The Packers may not be an organization with flashy names of aged talent or one season wonders, but as a team are superior to most teams in the NFL. Given the young and talented nature of this team, I hope that we are able to keep our players that have proven to preform, but based on his history, he's provided contracts to deserving players including many of the names on this draft list.

[Lurker64]

Really, with the #5 pick, you have to hope Hawk gives them even more than he's shown already.

I'm not sure you really have to expect more from Hawk, though he is showing progress. Look at the guys drafted around Hawk:

Mario Williams is a stud, but he was #1 overall and we didn't have a shot at him.
Reggie Bush can't run the ball at all in the NFL, but is dangerous as a receiver and returner.
Vince Young has serious problems on the field as well as off of it.
D'Brickashaw Ferguson is a serviceable left tackle in this league, but is far from dominant.
Vernon Davis I think has thrown more teammates under the bus than he has touchdown catches, as he's been a complete disappointment:
Michael Huff is no great shakes as a player in Oakland, he certainly hasn't made that defense respectable, at least.
Donte Whitner is a solid player with a lot of upside, but he was considered an amazing reach when he was taken 8th anyway.
Ernie Simms is a good player, you have to like his intensity, but he gets blocked a lot, and isn't nearly as assignment sure as A.J.
Matt Leinart spends more time partying than playing. He'd rather do a beer bong than throw a touchdown.

So by my reckoning, A.J. Hawk is at least the second best player taken in the top 10 of the 2006 draft, behind only the #1 overall pick. I'd say that's pretty good.

[packers11]

well said Lurker...

The top 10 outside of Hawk and Williams is not spectacular...

If you want to see a bad top 10, look at 2005... :lol:

[hoosier]

I'm not sure you really have to expect more from Hawk, though he is showing progress. Look at the guys drafted around Hawk:

Mario Williams is a stud, but he was #1 overall and we didn't have a shot at him.
Reggie Bush can't run the ball at all in the NFL, but is dangerous as a receiver and returner.
Vince Young has serious problems on the field as well as off of it. D'Brickashaw Ferguson is a serviceable left tackle in this league, but is far from dominant.
Vernon Davis I think has thrown more teammates under the bus than he has touchdown catches, as he's been a complete disappointment:
Michael Huff is no great shakes as a player in Oakland, he certainly hasn't made that defense respectable, at least.
Donte Whitner is a solid player with a lot of upside, but he was considered an amazing reach when he was taken 8th anyway.
Ernie Simms is a good player, you have to like his intensity, but he gets blocked a lot, and isn't nearly as assignment sure as A.J.
Matt Leinart spends more time partying than playing. He'd rather do a beer bong than throw a touchdown.

So by my reckoning, A.J. Hawk is at least the second best player taken in the top 10 of the 2006 draft, behind only the #1 overall pick. I'd say that's pretty good.

What do you mean? :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

[Tony Oday]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

Donald Lee isnt a first round pick...

[HarveyWallbangers]

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

I'm not quite on the same page. There was nobody else good on that team. He should have been option #1 (ala Tony Gonzalez and Todd Heap when he's healthy) if he were really good. Really, is 52 receptions and 4 TDs on a team with little other receiving options better than 48 receptions and 6 TDs on a team loaded with other options? I'm not so sure. Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap, Alge Crumpler for a number of years would seem to disprove that it's been harder for Davis to get big numbers than a guy like Donald Lee.

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/nfl/news?slug=fantguru-shortcuts


Martz may be finding out that TE Vernon Davis isn't really very good, unfortunately. Davis seems to be used more as a blocker. Davis may be a teaser and not a producer. He has not improved from last year, a terrible sign. He has very tight hips and choppy steps; he's not the athlete everyone thinks he is. He's a just a workout warrior.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

Donald Lee isnt a first round pick...

That wasn't the issue..he said he has been a complete disappointment.

That is far from the truth.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That wasn't the issue..he said he has been a complete disappointment.

That is far from the truth.

You made it an issue by comparing him to Donald Lee, and implicitly saying that Lee has an advantage because he plays on a better team. Why would you compare Davis to Lee anyways? I like Lee, but there are plenty of TEs better than him.

[Tony Oday]

That wasn't the issue..he said he has been a complete disappointment.

That is far from the truth.

You made it an issue by comparing him to Donald Lee, and implicitly saying that Lee has an advantage because he plays on a better team. Why would you compare Davis to Lee anyways? I like Lee, but there are plenty of TEs better than him.

Im not picking a fight but yes I was pointing out that Lee wasnt a huge contract out of college and didnt come in the WR speed and proclaimed as the best TE to come out in a long time. Im not saying he is a bad player just not playing up to his selection.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

I'm not quite on the same page. There was nobody else good on that team. He should have been option #1 (ala Tony Gonzalez and Todd Heap when he's healthy) if he were really good. Really, is 52 receptions and 4 TDs on a team with little other receiving options better than 48 receptions and 6 TDs on a team loaded with other options? I'm not so sure. Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap, Alge Crumpler for a number of years would seem to disprove that it's been harder for Davis to get big numbers than a guy like Donald Lee.

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/nfl/news?slug=fantguru-shortcuts


Martz may be finding out that TE Vernon Davis isn't really very good, unfortunately. Davis seems to be used more as a blocker. Davis may be a teaser and not a producer. He has not improved from last year, a terrible sign. He has very tight hips and choppy steps; he's not the athlete everyone thinks he is. He's a just a workout warrior.

Harv,

He was the #1 option. I wasn't saying that it was better than Lee...the point is that he isn't a complete disappointment. Plus, he was injured for 2 games.

Let's not forget the numerous offensive coordinators.

Let's not forget who he has throwing the ball for him..last year the leading passer was Dilfer with 113 completions, followed by Smith with 94 and then Hill with 54.

YOu and i both know that the key to a passing game is consistency between the QB and receivers..they have to know each others timing, etc.

As for #1 option..c'mon. Davis has Arnaz battle..while heap isn't the #1..he competes with mason and clayton...all of whom have roughly the same amount of catches.

As for Gonzalez...you mean the guy with 90 receptions last year and 5 tds..i don't think that is helping your argument. Plus, even rookie Bowe was better than anything Davis has. And, the chiefs threw the ball more.

Lastly, Crumpler. Again, you need to look at the numbers..cause they don't help you. In 07 he had 42 with 5 tds, 06 he had 56 with 8 tds, 05 he had 65 with 5 tds, 04 he had 48 with 6 tds.

Each of those guys are older and more experienced.

For a second year guys, who had FOUR STARTING qbs last year....i think calling him a complete disappointment is unfair and inaccurate.

[mraynrand]

Really, with the #5 pick, you have to hope Hawk gives them even more than he's shown already.

I disagree that Hawk has to show more. I really don't know how much more he could do. He's a force against the run and vicious while blitzing. If he keeps up this level of play for another 5 years, I can't imagine how we could complain.

Well, he can't get spun around 360 in coverage on an average back, like in the opener. I'll concede that if he was still hurting and a bit rusty, it's understandable. I like Hawk, I think he's a fine player - even a pro bowler. But you don't (hopefully) get a lot of shots at the #5 overall pick. Typically, 5 and up (5 being a bit arbitrary) is where you have to get those game changing impact players. We'll see - maybe this is the year Hawk plays most of the season like he did at K.C. last year, coming up strong when he covered Gonzales. If (and when) he covers Witten, and covers him well (meaning he wins most of the battles) Sunday, I'll be impressed.

[Patler]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

I think it is disappointing, not so much the 52 receptions, but the 4 TDs and 9.8yds/reception. That is not the type of player he was expected to be. Even when he got the ball, he didn't do a lot with it. This was a player who was expected to create huge problems for the defense because of his speed, quickness and athleticism. So far, he hasn't, but there is still time for him to become the player he was expected to be.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What would you consider a good game against Witten? Witten has gotten at least 53 yards receiving in 9 of his last 10 games. He's averaged 75 yards/game in his last 19 games. He's been throwing up WR stats. I'm not sure how well even great coverage LBs have done against Witten.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

That wasn't the issue..he said he has been a complete disappointment.

That is far from the truth.

You made it an issue by comparing him to Donald Lee, and implicitly saying that Lee has an advantage because he plays on a better team. Why would you compare Davis to Lee anyways? I like Lee, but there are plenty of TEs better than him.

That wasn't what i was implicitly saying.

I was saying...we are happy..not thrilled with Lee..and no one would call him a complete disappointment.

[mraynrand]

What would you consider a good game against Witten? Witten has gotten at least 53 yards receiving in 9 of his last 10 games. He's averaged 75 yards/game in his last 19 games. He's been throwing up WR stats. I'm not sure how well even great coverage LBs have done against Witten.

It won't be a yardage deal, just like in K.C. last year. It will be a down by down kind of thing. Hawk came up big in coverage late in that K.C. game, absolutely blanketing Gonzo up the middle. I think he can do that sort of thing consistently, and needs to, to be considered an all-pro kind of LB, like you'd like to get with the #5 pick. You'd expect him to get beaten from time to time, but if he's and elite LB, matched up one on one on a number of patterns, you expect him to win the battle most of the time. If the Packers choose to cover Witten other than by using Hawk, then you can't evaluate him as much (and I don't think they'll choose to do that or be able to do that, with the options the Cowboys have).

[Tyrone Bigguns]

That wasn't the issue..he said he has been a complete disappointment.

That is far from the truth.

You made it an issue by comparing him to Donald Lee, and implicitly saying that Lee has an advantage because he plays on a better team. Why would you compare Davis to Lee anyways? I like Lee, but there are plenty of TEs better than him.

Im not picking a fight but yes I was pointing out that Lee wasnt a huge contract out of college and didnt come in the WR speed and proclaimed as the best TE to come out in a long time. Im not saying he is a bad player just not playing up to his selection.

A receiver has to have the QB to throw to him...4 starting QBs last year. That ain't good.

This year he has JT throwing to him...and so far JT has thrown 1 td pass this season....are you gonna blame davis for having a crappy QB throwing to him?

Take a look at other first round TEs...heap..16 receptions his rookie year.

Bubba 34 receptions.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

I think it is disappointing, not so much the 52 receptions, but the 4 TDs and 9.8yds/reception. That is not the type of player he was expected to be. Even when he got the ball, he didn't do a lot with it. This was a player who was expected to create huge problems for the defense because of his speed, quickness and athleticism. So far, he hasn't, but there is still time for him to become the player he was expected to be.

I can live with your assesment, but you have to be fair and look at who is throwing the ball to him and his surrounding cast.

Four starting QBs last year. That is the recipe for disaster.

[mraynrand]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

I think it is disappointing, not so much the 52 receptions, but the 4 TDs and 9.8yds/reception. That is not the type of player he was expected to be. Even when he got the ball, he didn't do a lot with it. This was a player who was expected to create huge problems for the defense because of his speed, quickness and athleticism. So far, he hasn't, but there is still time for him to become the player he was expected to be.

I can live with your assesment, but you have to be fair and look at who is throwing the ball to him and his surrounding cast.

Four starting QBs last year. That is the recipe for disaster.

absolutely - and four NOT VERY GOOD quarterbacks on a not very good team.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That's all true, and that can hurt, but Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap, and Alge Crumpler didn't have the best supporting casts and put up big numbers. Gonzalez put up huge numbers last year with Huard/Croyle throwing to him and no good WRs. Heap has put up big numbers with Boller (and an over the hill McNair) throwing to him and little help at WR. Crumpler put up big numbers with Vick throwing to him and little help at WR. I don't think it's all the players around him. I think he's been a disappointment. He could turn it around. It's too early to judge, but he's been a disappointment so far.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Abdul Hodge

Ingle Martin

Tyrone Culver

Dave Tollefson

are all still in the league on active rosters.

The only bust was Corey Rodgers.

[Patler]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

I think it is disappointing, not so much the 52 receptions, but the 4 TDs and 9.8yds/reception. That is not the type of player he was expected to be. Even when he got the ball, he didn't do a lot with it. This was a player who was expected to create huge problems for the defense because of his speed, quickness and athleticism. So far, he hasn't, but there is still time for him to become the player he was expected to be.

I can live with your assesment, but you have to be fair and look at who is throwing the ball to him and his surrounding cast.

Four starting QBs last year. That is the recipe for disaster.

I recognize that. My point is that he apparently caught the ball 52 times, and didn't do much with it after catching it. With his size, speed, quickness and athleticism I would expect yards-after-catch would make his average much over 9.8 per reception. The QB has little to do with that. Some, but the receivers own talent has more to do with it. At 9.8 he must be getting hit and dropped immediately after the catch most of the time, and that is on him and is disappointing. He apparently is not getting separation from defenders, is not making tacklers miss and is not breaking tackles.

If he has 50 receptions for 750 yards and 8 TDs I would say he is living up to his hype. To me, the 9.8/catch sticks out as not very good.

[mission]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

I think it is disappointing, not so much the 52 receptions, but the 4 TDs and 9.8yds/reception. That is not the type of player he was expected to be. Even when he got the ball, he didn't do a lot with it. This was a player who was expected to create huge problems for the defense because of his speed, quickness and athleticism. So far, he hasn't, but there is still time for him to become the player he was expected to be.

I can live with your assesment, but you have to be fair and look at who is throwing the ball to him and his surrounding cast.

Four starting QBs last year. That is the recipe for disaster.

I recognize that. My point is that he apparently caught the ball 52 times, and didn't do much with it after catching it. With his size, speed, quickness and athleticism I would expect yards-after-catch would make his average much over 9.8 per reception. The QB has little to do with that. Some, but the receivers own talent has more to do with it. At 9.8 he must be getting hit and dropped immediately after the catch most of the time, and that is on him and is disappointing. He apparently is not getting separation from defenders, is not making tacklers miss and is not breaking tackles.

If he has 50 receptions for 750 yards and 8 TDs I would say he is living up to his hype. To me, the 9.8/catch sticks out as not very good.

You make a fair point with all of this but a lot has to be said for simply the position he's playing and then, as an extension of that, how that position operates within a specific system.

9.8 isn't great and ill admit, i really know nothing about the 49ers the last couple years, but a lot of teams use their TEs in a much more "dump off" way and if Davis is more of a deeper seem kind of guy rather than someone who can make that first LB miss and *then* get his yards ... then you could argue for a guy slightly playing out of position.

Not that I'm defending him... I think he's a prick, but more just replying to the YPC topic.

And back on it, I'm sensing a coming party on Sunday night. AJ Hawk, Jennings and Rodgers ... who else? We're gonna see some big plays in our favor methinks ... Can't wait for some big defensive plays ... !!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

That's all true, and that can hurt, but Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap, and Alge Crumpler didn't have the best supporting casts and put up big numbers. Gonzalez put up huge numbers last year with Huard/Croyle throwing to him and no good WRs. Heap has put up big numbers with Boller (and an over the hill McNair) throwing to him and little help at WR. Crumpler put up big numbers with Vick throwing to him and little help at WR. I don't think it's all the players around him. I think he's been a disappointment. He could turn it around. It's too early to judge, but he's been a disappointment so far.

Gonzalez: I went thru this. 5 tds. Plus, Bowe is a dang good receiver.

Heap: C'mon. Derrick Mason is a good WR as is Clayton. And, all three bascically have the same amount of catches.

Crumpler: I disagree. Far better than one WR named Battle.

And, you discount that each one those 3 has far more experience. Are you know suggesting that experience doesnt' count for anything.

You are also comparing situations with 2 qbs to a 4 qb situation.

I here what you are saying..i would say he has been disappointing like Patler said. But, a "complete disappointment"..no way.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Lurker,

While you may not like Davis and his interpersonal skills, his production last year was quite good...considering who was throwin the ball to him and how effed up the Niners are.

52 receptions and 4 tds on that team is pretty darn good.

Donald Lee finished with 48 receptions and 6 tds on a 13 win club with a HOF/Pro bowl QB.

Let's at least be fair.

I think it is disappointing, not so much the 52 receptions, but the 4 TDs and 9.8yds/reception. That is not the type of player he was expected to be. Even when he got the ball, he didn't do a lot with it. This was a player who was expected to create huge problems for the defense because of his speed, quickness and athleticism. So far, he hasn't, but there is still time for him to become the player he was expected to be.

I can live with your assesment, but you have to be fair and look at who is throwing the ball to him and his surrounding cast.

Four starting QBs last year. That is the recipe for disaster.

I recognize that. My point is that he apparently caught the ball 52 times, and didn't do much with it after catching it. With his size, speed, quickness and athleticism I would expect yards-after-catch would make his average much over 9.8 per reception. The QB has little to do with that. Some, but the receivers own talent has more to do with it. At 9.8 he must be getting hit and dropped immediately after the catch most of the time, and that is on him and is disappointing. He apparently is not getting separation from defenders, is not making tacklers miss and is not breaking tackles.

If he has 50 receptions for 750 yards and 8 TDs I would say he is living up to his hype. To me, the 9.8/catch sticks out as not very good.

My points were covered by mission.

I would agree with your expectations...but, the system they run with the crappy QBs...can we really say what should happen. I can't look at one of those QBs and think...man, i bet he hit him in stride and Davis just blew it.

Also, your assesment is predicated on the usual TE beating a LB or single coverage. Davis isn't getting that. He is the only threat so he is getting far more coverage. I see prolly more of him since i'm on the west coast and watch him play the cards....where we have our own disappointing TE..c'mon down Mr. Pope.

BTW, his average this year on 3 catches is 17 yards.

[Patler]

I would agree with your expectations...but, the system they run with the crappy QBs...can we really say what should happen. I can't look at one of those QBs and think...man, i bet he hit him in stride and Davis just blew it.

Also, your assesment is predicated on the usual TE beating a LB or single coverage. Davis isn't getting that. He is the only threat so he is getting far more coverage. I see prolly more of him since i'm on the west coast and watch him play the cards....where we have our own disappointing TE..c'mon down Mr. Pope.

BTW, his average this year on 3 catches is 17 yards.

I certainly am not "giving up" on Davis, as I said he still has time.

No. my assessment is not predicated on the "usual" coverage by a linebacker, or single coverage. Why would it be? Davis was supposed to be special, demanding defenses to do special things to cover him. That type of coverage tends to limit the number of catches, but at 9.8/catch he is clearly catching a lot of 5 and 6 yarders, receptions that occur before the double coverage gets there, and doing nothing special with it. I doubt teams are double-teaming him at the line of scrimmage, the double team comes up later.

To average 9.8 he has to catch quite a few much shorter than that, and get dropped in his tracks ala Bubba Franks. As a receiver, Franks did not live up to expectations. As a blocker, he did. As a red-zone threat, he did. Time will tell with Davis.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I would agree with your expectations...but, the system they run with the crappy QBs...can we really say what should happen. I can't look at one of those QBs and think...man, i bet he hit him in stride and Davis just blew it.

Also, your assesment is predicated on the usual TE beating a LB or single coverage. Davis isn't getting that. He is the only threat so he is getting far more coverage. I see prolly more of him since i'm on the west coast and watch him play the cards....where we have our own disappointing TE..c'mon down Mr. Pope.

BTW, his average this year on 3 catches is 17 yards.

I certainly am not "giving up" on Davis, as I said he still has time.

No. my assessment is not predicated on the "usual" coverage by a linebacker, or single coverage. Why would it be? Davis was supposed to be special, demanding defenses to do special things to cover him. That type of coverage tends to limit the number of catches, but at 9.8/catch he is clearly catching a lot of 5 and 6 yarders, receptions that occur before the double coverage gets there, and doing nothing special with it. I doubt teams are double-teaming him at the line of scrimmage, the double team comes up later.

To average 9.8 he has to catch quite a few much shorter than that, and get dropped in his tracks ala Bubba Franks. As a receiver, Franks did not live up to expectations. As a blocker, he did. As a red-zone threat, he did. Time will tell with Davis.

YOu are making my point. What he was supposed to be able to do...speed, split the zone, etc...are exactly the things that the qbs there can't do...get him the ball down the field.

So, he is now getting shorter passes and breaking tackles around the line of scrimmage isn't his forte, nor is it most tightends...break a tackle to get a few yards to maybe get the first down...but, nobody was expecting him to take dump off passes and break them long.

That would be like asking Randy Moss to do that...could he...sure, but you arent' utilizing his best skill...his speed and height compared to the dbs covering him.

[Patler]

YOu are making my point. What he was supposed to be able to do...speed, split the zone, etc...are exactly the things that the qbs there can't do...get him the ball down the field.

So, he is now getting shorter passes and breaking tackles around the line of scrimmage isn't his forte, nor is it most tightends...break a tackle to get a few yards to maybe get the first down...but, nobody was expecting him to take dump off passes and break them long.

That would be like asking Randy Moss to do that...could he...sure, but you arent' utilizing his best skill...his speed and height compared to the dbs covering him.

Now you are describing Davis as if he is a 200 lb WR. Of course he should break tackles, all good tight ends should, or carry the DB with him until others arrive. With a short pass, he should be able to out-quick a linebacker and outmuscle a DB, and pick up more than a step after the catch. At 9.8 he is getting nothing after the catch. My conclusion - he is allowing DBs and linebackers to bring him down one-on-one. He was supposed to be better than that.

[SnakeLH2006]

YOu are making my point. What he was supposed to be able to do...speed, split the zone, etc...are exactly the things that the qbs there can't do...get him the ball down the field.

So, he is now getting shorter passes and breaking tackles around the line of scrimmage isn't his forte, nor is it most tightends...break a tackle to get a few yards to maybe get the first down...but, nobody was expecting him to take dump off passes and break them long.

That would be like asking Randy Moss to do that...could he...sure, but you arent' utilizing his best skill...his speed and height compared to the dbs covering him.

Now you are describing Davis as if he is a 200 lb WR. Of course he should break tackles, all good tight ends should, or carry the DB with him until others arrive. With a short pass, he should be able to out-quick a linebacker and outmuscle a DB, and pick up more than a step after the catch. At 9.8 he is getting nothing after the catch. My conclusion - he is allowing DBs and linebackers to bring him down one-on-one. He was supposed to be better than that.

How dare you rip on Bubba Franks like that!! He's a beast I tell ya! (How the hell did they waste a #14 choice on that turd?) LOL

[The Gunshooter]

When Vernon Davis was drafted he cried hard. I had this feeling right at that moment the man would be no big deal. What football player cries like that unless he is retiring? Was Davis' goal to get the signing bonus and did he know he wasn't all that he was being made out to be?

[hoosier]

Last year Davis had 163 YAC for his 52 catches and 9.8 avg, which puts him well below league leaders, both overall and TEs. To be fair, though, Donald Driver had a statistically nearly identical year in 2003 with 52 Rec and 160 YAC, and we know that Driver is both a reliable receiver and productive after the catch. I think Davis's third year will tell a lot: is last year a good indicator of his lack of progression, or was it a down year and is his first year (20 Rec/128 YAC in limited playing time) really more indicative of where he is going? My gut feeling is that his production will never live up to his combine numbers, but I haven't ever had a chance to watch him closely.

[run pMc]

I wouldn't call V.Davis a bust or a complete disappointment, but I do think his production hasn't quite merited a #6 pick. Hawk has proven to be a far better pick. As others have pointed out, the Top 10 from that draft class have not lived up to their hype.

[HarveyWallbangers]

To be fair, though, Donald Driver had a statistically nearly identical year in 2003 with 52 Rec and 160 YAC, and we know that Driver is both a reliable receiver and productive after the catch.

To be fair, that's the year Driver landed on his head and hurt his neck, and he wasn't the same receiver the rest of that year.