What Did We Learn Tonight?

[rbaloha1]

1. MM needs to trust AR and open up the playbook. AR was never in rhythm. What happened to the bootlegs? Also need to break tendencies by calling plays to AR's left. More outs and double moves.

2. Jordy Nelson is the #3 receiver.

3. Chillar needs to start.

4. Aaron Rouse can be a liability.

5. Hawk over pursues and gets faked out too easily.

6. Tony Moll needs to be benched. Wells needs to start again.

7. Still a playoff team and best in the NFC North.

Your thoughts Packers Nation.

[Pacopete4]

I learned that we are just not that good.. we're not a top team in the NFC right now.. I also learned that the Vikings are probably about right where we are as a football team

[Harlan Huckleby]

2. Jordy Nelson is the #3 receiver.
definitely


3. Chillar needs to start.
Chillar played well, but I'm not sure he is better.


4. Aaron Rouse can be a liability.
Rouse played well, had a couple bad plays.


5. Hawk over pursues and gets faked out too easily..
HAwk was also one of the only people on the field who could tackle Barber.


6. Tony Moll needs to be benched. Wells needs to start again.
I saw only one bad play from Moll. Maybe you are right, tho.
I'd rather see Sitton than Wells, Wells is maxed out at average.

[pbmax]

Please do not criticize play calling without watching the tape. You don't know who was open, if Rodgers changed the play at the line of scrimmage or if he had a run/pass option.

Dallas played a lot of deep zone from my perspective on throwing downs (hard to be precise when they only show the ball) but that caused a lot of check downs. Might not have all been play calling.

One good sign, the running game was in gear, even if it wasn't enough by itself.

[PackerTimer]

1. MM needs to trust AR and open up the playbook. AR was never in rhythm. What happened to the bootlegs? Also need to break tendencies by calling plays to AR's left. More outs and double moves. I'm not a playcalling expert but I would like to see more committement to the run game.

2. Jordy Nelson is the #3 receiver. I think so too. Although he did make most of his plays in garbage time.

3. Chillar needs to start. He played a good game. Although Poppinga has played pretty well this year too. Chillar is definitely better in coverage

4. Aaron Rouse can be a liability. 100% agree. I saw him take a number of poor angles a few times tonight.

5. Hawk over pursues and gets faked out too easily. This is really the only part I disagree with. I thought Hawk played a good game and has probably been our best defensive player through three games.

6. Tony Moll needs to be benched. Wells needs to start again. Yes. Our best line is Clifton - College - Wells - Spitz - Tauscher. Forget Sitton and Moll, those five are the best we have.

7. Still a playoff team and best in the NFC North. Yes. Still have a lot of time to get better as well. If you would have told me were 2-1 and coming out of these first three, I would have taken it. Disappointing loss but a solid start to the season so far.

[RashanGary]

1. MM needs to trust AR and open up the playbook. AR was never in rhythm. What happened to the bootlegs? Also need to break tendencies by calling plays to AR's left. More outs and double moves.

Don't know what happened there

2. Jordy Nelson is the #3 receiver.

He looked really good

3. Chillar needs to start.

Don't know. Poppinga has done a nice job this year. This was a good team to play Chillar against though.

4. Aaron Rouse can be a liability.

I don't think I like Rouse.

5. Hawk over pursues and gets faked out too easily.

I didn't have a problem with Hawk

6. Tony Moll needs to be benched. Wells needs to start again.

He had some bad moments, but so did Colledge, Tauscher and Clifton

7. Still a playoff team and best in the NFC North.

Don't know for sure, but after three games they look to be good enough to win it but not a sure thing

Your thoughts Packers Nation.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I learned that we are just not that good.. we're not a top team in the NFC right now.. I also learned that the Vikings are probably about right where we are as a football team

Chicken Little again. Dallas is probably the best team in the league right now, but it's a long season. I'd have to believe the OL will be better at the end of the season than now. I'd have to believe Rodgers will be better the more he sees a 3-4 defense. Hopefully, the guys in the secondary aren't banged up too much.

[Pacopete4]

I learned that we are just not that good.. we're not a top team in the NFC right now.. I also learned that the Vikings are probably about right where we are as a football team

Chicken Little again. Dallas is probably the best team in the league right now, but it's a long season. I'd have to believe the OL will be better at the end of the season than now. I'd have to believe Rodgers will be better the more he sees a 3-4 defense. Hopefully, the guys in the secondary aren't banged up too much.


Chicken Little? haha I predicted 8-8/9-7 before the season and thats right where they'll be IMO... Dallas is way better than us and I think with solid QB play from the Vikes they will be sticking right on our hip the rest of the way out... I'm not sure how thats chicken little or just realistic

[PackerTimer]

I learned that we are just not that good.. we're not a top team in the NFC right now.. I also learned that the Vikings are probably about right where we are as a football team

Chicken Little again. Dallas is probably the best team in the league right now, but it's a long season. I'd have to believe the OL will be better at the end of the season than now. I'd have to believe Rodgers will be better the more he sees a 3-4 defense. Hopefully, the guys in the secondary aren't banged up too much.


Chicken Little? haha I predicted 8-8/9-7 before the season and thats right where they'll be IMO... Dallas is way better than us and I think with solid QB play from the Vikes they will be sticking right on our hip the rest of the way out... I'm not sure how thats chicken little or just realistic

I thought 10-6 and that's what I still think. They are exaclty where I thought they would be after 3 games.

[mission]

Jennings is a man among boys out there.

Hawk played OK but you guys must have missed the 4-5 plays where he completely overpursued the run on those misdirection plays. Barbers TD he just kinda froze in the hole at the goal line.. for what? to catch him and carry him into the end zone ? we gotta be filling hard

Williams can't tackle at all. He's always flying through the air trying to lay it on someone.

Rouse takes horrible angles. Hasn't compensated for his lack of speed.

We hold way too fuckin much.

3-4 makes A-Rod passive. Had the same look on his face tonight as he had against the Niners preseason.

We'll be OK but we're not there yet.

I'm sticking to 11-5 .. .

8-8, 9-7 we are not ...

[privatepacker]

The Cowboys had a short week and were clearly a little out of synch w/ the pasing game. That being said their lines just beat the Pack every which way they could. The score at the half was closer then it should have been.
The punting and return games were very disappointing as well. Even when they were pinned at their 20 they changed the field w/ a 65 yard punt. That in itself would be bad but to only get a 5 yard return was terrible.
Green Bay needed to play loose and w/o fear. They did neither.

[gbgary]

a little less shotgun would help both the run and passing game.

we need a kick-ass tight end.

one more thing...no more primetime games...ever. we suck when the whole country is watching. :D

[texaspackerbacker]

I DON'T think we need more of a commitment to the run; We need less.

Unleashing /having more confidence in Rodgers, as somebody said, is what we need. On that last drive, the Cowboys were NOT playing a prevent defense. They were playing to shut down the short and medium passing game. Yet Rodgers was able to move the team down the field anyway. More of that and mixing in the run occasionally is what we need. That way, you make first downs, and when you do give Grant the ball, you have a lot better hope of breaking a big gainer.

Also, NOT less shotgun, but more--and using Grant with Rodgers in the shotgun too.

[Noodle]

If we're going to run shotgun so much, we've got to get either a screen game (not seen around here since Ahman left) or get a little gimmicky with direct snaps to the back, like the Dolphins did to the Pats. Something, anything to keep the D a little honest for cripes sake.

I especially hate going gun on 3rd and short (4 or less) situations -- they know we aren't running, and they just killed us.

[CaliforniaCheez]

As a famous Packer coach once said. "It all comes down to blocking and tackling. It isn't brain surgery out there."


The Cowboys had the bigger better blocking Offensive Line.

The Packer O-line wasn't as good as the Cowboys.

There isn't much further analysis needed because it is all secondary to the differences in the quality of the O-lines.

[Pacopete4]

As a famous Packer coach once said. "It all comes down to blocking and tackling. It isn't brain surgery out there."


The Cowboys had the bigger better blocking Offensive Line.

The Packer O-line wasn't as good as the Cowboys.

There isn't much further analysis needed because it is all secondary to the differences in the quality of the O-lines.


Another reason that zone blocking shit can get the hell outta here...

I want some beefy dudes who can beat the shit outta the dline ALL GAME LONG... I want Dlineman to wake up the next day and not be able to get outta bed.. worst decision by the pack in many years was this zone blocking crap

[Harlan Huckleby]

I want some beefy dudes who can beat the shit outta the dline ALL GAME LONG...

then you don't want to build an oline around Wells at center

[texaspackerbacker]

As a famous Packer coach once said. "It all comes down to blocking and tackling. It isn't brain surgery out there."


The Cowboys had the bigger better blocking Offensive Line.

The Packer O-line wasn't as good as the Cowboys.

There isn't much further analysis needed because it is all secondary to the differences in the quality of the O-lines.


Another reason that zone blocking shit can get the hell outta here...

I want some beefy dudes who can beat the shit outta the dline ALL GAME LONG... I want Dlineman to wake up the next day and not be able to get outta bed.. worst decision by the pack in many years was this zone blocking crap

So it comes down to the O Line again. The question is NOT what you want so much as what can you do with what you've got. The ZBS is a great compensation type offense for when you DON'T have an O Line like the Cowboys--practically nobody in the NFL does. Most of the time against most teams, we are better off with the ZBS. It didn't even work all that badly tonight, considering Grant not being 100% as well as the quality of the defense.

I've been saying all week our O Line isn't "under-performing". It's either doing about what it should do or maybe even over-performing compared to the ability of the personnel.

[Pacopete4]

As a famous Packer coach once said. "It all comes down to blocking and tackling. It isn't brain surgery out there."


The Cowboys had the bigger better blocking Offensive Line.

The Packer O-line wasn't as good as the Cowboys.

There isn't much further analysis needed because it is all secondary to the differences in the quality of the O-lines.


Another reason that zone blocking shit can get the hell outta here...

I want some beefy dudes who can beat the shit outta the dline ALL GAME LONG... I want Dlineman to wake up the next day and not be able to get outta bed.. worst decision by the pack in many years was this zone blocking crap

So it comes down to the O Line again. The question is NOT what you want so much as what can you do with what you've got. The ZBS is a great compensation type offense for when you DON'T have an O Line like the Cowboys--practically nobody in the NFL does. Most of the time against most teams, we are better off with the ZBS. It didn't even work all that badly tonight, considering Grant not being 100% as well as the quality of the defense.

I've been saying all week our O Line isn't "under-performing". It's either doing about what it should do or maybe even over-performing compared to the ability of the personnel.


Its just the type of guys we go out and get.. we could try to get the big beefers but we choose this style which is horshit IMO..

[mission]

I want some beefy dudes who can beat the shit outta the dline ALL GAME LONG...

then you don't want to build an oline around Wells at center

I dont want to build a line around him no matter what...

Im really not a fan of this ZBS...

I know what the Z stands for but could someone fill me in on the BS ?? I thought it meant blocking scheme but im not so sure.

Scheme might be right, actually...

[Harlan Huckleby]

I've been saying all week our O Line isn't "under-performing". It's either doing about what it should do or maybe even over-performing compared to the ability of the personnel.

I agree, they have played pretty well.

They are doing the best with what they have.

[oregonpackfan]

Some things I think we learned are:

1. The Packers youth will make costly mistakes which should improve over the length of the season. There were far too many penalties which negated several big gains by our offense.

2. Rodgers showed poise in the face of a great defense. He did not try to force passes for easy interceptions.

3. Rodgers still has a tremendous amount of untapped and undeveloped talent. He showed excellent mobility with the rollouts, avoiding many tackles, and even doing a quarterback sneak into the endzone.

4. The Packers O-line needs significant improvement in its run blocking.

5. Though Driver is the official #1 receiver, Jennings is the playmaker receiver. Jones may have lost his #3 receiver status with dropping at least two easy passes in his second consecutive game.

6. Brandon Jackson is slowly becoming more effective as the #2 tailback. He was more decisive in picking his holes and running with more authority.

7. Chillar needs to be used more often as a linebacker in pass coverage.

8. Cullen Jenkins had a great game. We need him to stay healthy.

[3irty1]

Ryan Grant is looking pretty tackleable.

[BobDobbs]

You know I know that Grant hasn't been producing, but I swear to God that Brandon Jackson has been getting way bigger holes to run through these last couple games. Maybe Its because teams play us to pass more when he is in there. Or maybe I'm delusional.

We got pretty well handled today. The thing that kills me is all the big plays we gave up to chumps. Well, Felix Jones is not a chump, but he should have to break more than one open field tackle to take it 70 yards to the house. And who the hell is Mike Austin a prowrestler. The first big catch should have been about a 15 yarder and on the second one Rouse took a terrible angle to the ball. But Williams has got to keep running and make that play he slowed down to find the ball and let that completion go. It was a sweet pass under pressure though.

One last thing. Chillar/Pop is a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. I would have loved to see Poppinga helping to defend Barber, he gets jacked for these kind of physical showdowns and gives some of his best games. On the other hand then maybe Witten grabs 10 or twelve balls and dominates the game. So what are you going to do? I still think Poppinga deserves to start and should have tonight.

[cpk1994]

I learned that we are just not that good.. we're not a top team in the NFC right now.. I also learned that the Vikings are probably about right where we are as a football team

:bs2:

[outflow]

Grant at 100% wouldn't have mattered a lick.

Where was the backside pursuit on the Cowboy misdirection runs?

Nelson seems to be learning quite well from the other receivers in getting open after the play breaks down.

I agree, this shotgun formation straight to pass crap has to stop. I don't agree that we need more trickery, we need less and more of the two RB sets/back them off with the quick slants.

[Cheesehead Craig]

5. Hawk over pursues and gets faked out too easily.


Calling out Hawk is silly. He played a fine game last night. The Dallas OL was opening huge holes out there and it got to a point where the team had to start selling out to stop the run.

Why don't you call out Barnett? Where the hell was he all night long?

[MOBB DEEP]

...pack will still be 11-5; not many teams on our sched are as talented as GB and none are as talented as cowgirls...

[MOBB DEEP]

5. Hawk over pursues and gets faked out too easily.


Calling out Hawk is silly. He played a fine game last night. The Dallas OL was opening huge holes out there and it got to a point where the team had to start selling out to stop the run.

Why don't you call out Barnett? Where the hell was he all night long?


i think BOTH had subpar games; got out physicaled

[Partial]

That MM STILL cannot call a primetime game.

[rbaloha1]

Grant at 100% wouldn't have mattered a lick.

Agree.

Where was the backside pursuit on the Cowboy misdirection runs?

MM blamed alignment errors. This is not preseason especially with an experienced defense.

Nelson seems to be learning quite well from the other receivers in getting open after the play breaks down.

Noted.

I agree, this shotgun formation straight to pass crap has to stop. I don't agree that we need more trickery, we need less and more of the two RB sets/back them off with the quick slants.

Disagree. Shotgun is effective when the Packers are also running the ball.

Shotgun also helps AR get into rhythm. IMO Arod was never in passing rhythm.

[rbaloha1]

5. Hawk over pursues and gets faked out too easily.


Calling out Hawk is silly. He played a fine game last night. The Dallas OL was opening huge holes out there and it got to a point where the team had to start selling out to stop the run.

Why don't you call out Barnett? Where the hell was he all night long?

Agreed. Both over pursued and were over powered at the point of attack. IMO Hawk receives too much praise; Barnett too little.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Agreed. Both over pursued and were over powered at the point of attack. IMO Hawk receives too much praise; Barnett too little.

Not this year. Hawk has been much better than Barnett this year. Hawk deserves praise for his early season play. Barnett deserves blame. Notice how Barber never bounced off Hawk--like he did with almost everybody else on our defense.

[privatepacker]

Wouldn't be surprised to see another punter worked out. Also, Rodgers has to get used to the 3 step drop and get the ball out. Also need to see some more roll-outs.

[rbaloha1]

Wouldn't be surprised to see another punter worked out. Also, Rodgers has to get used to the 3 step drop and get the ball out. Also need to see some more roll-outs.

Agree. New punter needs to be located. Frost kicks too low.

MM needs to mix up A-rod throws. Break tendencies by rolling-out to the left.

[bobblehead]

I guess this is a chat site and people will tend to overanalyze things so I won't complain about that.

Bottom line is this: Dallas is a better team at this point, but not by a huge margin. Mainly it came down to their OL was better than ours. They protected romo a bit better and were a bit better in run blocking and we were a bit inferior. Over the course of a game that will wear down your DL thru time of possession.

If we meet again in the playoffs I unfortunately don't like our chances except for one thing...romo has choked in the playoffs 2 years running and ARod truly does look like pressure doesn't bother him (DL pressure does though).

If we meet again we need a steady diet of blitzing and pressure on romo to force more 3 and outs so we don't get worn down. For christ sake it would be nice to stop a 3rd and 20 by sending more than just 4.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Honestly, I don't think we match up well with Dallas. If we get to the playoffs, I hope somebody else beats Dallas for us.

[MadtownPacker]

Shotgun also helps AR get into rhythm. IMO Arod was never in passing rhythm.My thought exactly. And once M3 tried to get something going the pukes defense knew the pass was coming.

[bobblehead]

You know I know that Grant hasn't been producing, but I swear to God that Brandon Jackson has been getting way bigger holes to run through these last couple games. Maybe Its because teams play us to pass more when he is in there. Or maybe I'm delusional.

We got pretty well handled today. The thing that kills me is all the big plays we gave up to chumps. Well, Felix Jones is not a chump, but he should have to break more than one open field tackle to take it 70 yards to the house. And who the hell is Mike Austin a prowrestler. The first big catch should have been about a 15 yarder and on the second one Rouse took a terrible angle to the ball. But Williams has got to keep running and make that play he slowed down to find the ball and let that completion go. It was a sweet pass under pressure though.

One last thing. Chillar/Pop is a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. I would have loved to see Poppinga helping to defend Barber, he gets jacked for these kind of physical showdowns and gives some of his best games. On the other hand then maybe Witten grabs 10 or twelve balls and dominates the game. So what are you going to do? I still think Poppinga deserves to start and should have tonight.

Which is why I was one of two posters against paying grant so soon. Its amazing what a difference a big hole to run through makes.

Our running game will improve as we go, but unfortunately we can't cut our own guys in practice so we start out the season slow. As we work it every sunday it will come around and wear down defenses better than it has so far.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think we didn't learn more than we learned:

we didn't learn that the offensive line is terrible. they competed reasonably well, and no player was an obvious weak link. They played an excellent front seven, who put steady pressure on Rodgers. Rodgers ussually had a chance to pass, just a little less time than in the past.

we didn't learn that Rodgers played terribly under pressure. I doubt any QB would have done significantly better.

WE didn't learn that Rouse sucks. I didn't look at the stats, but I bet he lead the team in unassisted tackles. I think it is human nature to look for a dramatic weakness to blame and correct, but Rouse didn't take "bad angles" all night as some people were saying. HE missed a tackle on Barber in the backfield, and he screwed up on a long touchdown.