Calling out the Defense - Sort Of

[Ballboy]

I just don't get it. Everygame this year, Minny, Lions and now Cowboys. Whenever they get us into a third and long, they send people, and they let you know it. Why are the Packers not doing this? They talked last year about how we were going to use the LBs more and heck even the DBs to put more pressure on the QB........IF they watched the Philly game last week, that is all Philly did......why cant we?!!? It shouldn't matter if a few players were out.

Yes, a few times we sent a LB(never a DB ala Henry) but when we do, why do our LBs blitz from the regular LBs spot? Any other team, they are up at the line ready to go.....if you are coming from your regular spot, that is 7 yards off the line, then add in the QB drop for an additional 7-10 yards.

Don't tell me we needed it for coverage....yes we doubled TO, Whitten got his so can't say we doubled him....who else?!!?

MM did help either, 3 outs, not being able to sustain a drive with the run game.

I'm not upset about the loss, I picked the Packers for 3-1 at the bye and we are in a position to do that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That's something I noted to superfan yesterday. I hate our delayed blitzes.

[oregonpackfan]

Whether it be delayed blitz or having the LB's line up on the line of scrimmage, it would not have mattered much against the Cowboys' Oline. They are a remarkable group, both for run blocking as well as pass protection.

Cullen Jenkins was the only Packer Dlineman who had any consistent success against them.

When I saw Kampman trying to pass rush the right tackle, it seemed like he was outweighed by 50 lbs!

[CaliforniaCheez]

The Packers Defense is 27th in total yards surrendered.

26th against the Rush

22nd against the Pass

25th in Points allowed.

According to NFL.com.

[privatepacker]

I have seen posts that say the defense was on the field too long. That was very true but Dallas seem to make a lot of 3rd. downs. So if they don't want to be on the field...stop-em!

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Packers Defense is 27th in total yards surrendered.

26th against the Rush

22nd against the Pass

25th in Points allowed.

According to NFL.com.

Well, it's only 3 games into the season and giving up 450+ yards to Dallas is going to hurt the stats. They've been decent, but we just don't match up well with Dallas. We can't get a consistent pass rush against their big OL.

[MadtownPacker]

Hell no this isnt the defense's fault. Only gave up 20 points to a high powered cowpukes offense through 3 quarters? Shit, Ill take that any day.

[Ballboy]

That's something I noted to superfan yesterday. I hate our delayed blitzes.

To tired to read through everything. I seem to recall that in the preseason they did some LB's at the line...where has that gone?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whether it be delayed blitz or having the LB's line up on the line of scrimmage, it would not have mattered much against the Cowboys' Oline. They are a remarkable group, both for run blocking as well as pass protection.

Cullen Jenkins was the only Packer Dlineman who had any consistent success against them.

When I saw Kampman trying to pass rush the right tackle, it seemed like he was outweighed by 50 lbs!

I disagree...yes they are a good group, but the front 4 were getting some sort of pressure.....you can only think that if we sent 5-6 people they would've gotten to Romo sooner!!!

[bobblehead]

Whether it be delayed blitz or having the LB's line up on the line of scrimmage, it would not have mattered much against the Cowboys' Oline. They are a remarkable group, both for run blocking as well as pass protection.

Cullen Jenkins was the only Packer Dlineman who had any consistent success against them.

When I saw Kampman trying to pass rush the right tackle, it seemed like he was outweighed by 50 lbs!

Early on Kamp was rag dolling that dude, but he got worn down. I agree we don't blitz enough, the only plays where romo looked uncomfortable and didn't make completions where the (4-5) times we actually sent an LB.

[Harlan Huckleby]

the packers lack of depth at D-line really hurt. Montgomery made a nice play that I noticed, but he also got pushed around a lot.

[retailguy]

the packers lack of depth at D-line really hurt. Montgomery made a nice play that I noticed, but he also got pushed around a lot.

Just wait until we get Justin Harrell back, that'll change everything.

I really don't think you can lay this one on the defense. I thought overall it did OK, the real issue was the lack of continuity to sustain drives by the offense in the second half. The defense was understandably gassed by the 4th quarter. That was the real issue if you ask me, (but you didn't)...

[Harlan Huckleby]

the packers lack of depth at D-line really hurt. Montgomery made a nice play that I noticed, but he also got pushed around a lot.

Just wait until we get Justin Harrell back, that'll change everything.

I really don't think you can lay this one on the defense. I thought overall it did OK, the real issue was the lack of continuity to sustain drives by the offense in the second half. The defense was understandably gassed by the 4th quarter. That was the real issue if you ask me, (but you didn't)...


ITs amazing how the Cowboys were superior in EVERY phase of the game, at every position even. I thought the Packers played hard and well across the board.

[pbmax]

IF they watched the Philly game last week, that is all Philly did......why cant we?!!?

Packers vs. Cowboys: 16 to 27

Eagles vs. Cowboys: 37 to 41
Whose defense should we be copying?! :shock:

The blitzes that Hawk and Bennett almost got home on (emphasize almost) weren't delayed. I don't know the mix, but my guess is that delayed blitzes weren't blitzes at all, but LBs rushing the QB when their man stayed in to block.

This D gameplan was a vast improvement over last year. Witten killed us on third down and we failed to account for an unknown WR in the second half. This game's result was very much on the offense. That lack of pass rush yielded all of 13 points in the first half. It did, however, help keep themselves on the field. Even tired, they gave up two TDs in the second half.

My questions: Pickett lost the double team battle inside. What next? Kampman did nothing versus Columbo save one sack where Romo was flushed by another player. Harlan might have seen AK ragdolling Columbo, but I missed that. I did see Kampman get blocked repeatedly by a TE on wide runs. When Jolly has the best day of the D Line, you know they have succeeded in neutralizing you.

There were problems, but the focus needs to be on the offense.

[rdanomly]

I agree that the somewhat weak run game was a bigger problem than the D. But I also didn't hear KGB mentioned much. Was he hurt last night or just a non-factor?

[Ballboy]

IF they watched the Philly game last week, that is all Philly did......why cant we?!!?

Packers vs. Cowboys: 16 to 27

Eagles vs. Cowboys: 37 to 41
Whose defense should we be copying?! :shock:

The blitzes that Hawk and Bennett almost got home on (emphasize almost) weren't delayed. I don't know the mix, but my guess is that delayed blitzes weren't blitzes at all, but LBs rushing the QB when their man stayed in to block.

This D gameplan was a vast improvement over last year. Witten killed us on third down and we failed to account for an unknown WR in the second half. This game's result was very much on the offense. That lack of pass rush yielded all of 13 points in the first half. It did, however, help keep themselves on the field. Even tired, they gave up two TDs in the second half.

My questions: Pickett lost the double team battle inside. What next? Kampman did nothing versus Columbo save one sack where Romo was flushed by another player. Harlan might have seen AK ragdolling Columbo, but I missed that. I did see Kampman get blocked repeatedly by a TE on wide runs. When Jolly has the best day of the D Line, you know they have succeeded in neutralizing you.

There were problems, but the focus needs to be on the offense.

I don't think the the issue is "delayed blitz" but rather blitxing from the regular LB spot instead of up at the line.

If we had been sending more guys, our regular front 4 woundn't have been so tired from fighting off the double teams

[HarveyWallbangers]

The blitzes that Hawk and Bennett almost got home on (emphasize almost) weren't delayed.

I know I saw Hawk on at least two delayed blitzes, and I don't remember him blitzing much from the LOS.

[BobDobbs]

There were times when the D-Line did get handled. KGB in particular was invisible, terrible game. But alo remember that Dallas gave up 0 sacks in 2 games and then three to us. I just read some post game quotes from Romo and he said that he was feeling the pressure and this was one of those games where he just had to deal with it.
On the second long pass to Austin for the touchdown he's got a Dlineman behind him and Jason Hunter hitting him right after he throws. He wasn't back there on a lawn chair. The Dline played pass rush pretty well, you can't get pressure every play, but we did better than anyone else this year against the Cowboys.

The front seven lost the battle against the run. We are definitely going to see more misdirections if we play like that. The only good thing is that we are not going to see many backs who run like Barber again.

[pbmax]

The difference from blitzing from a LB depth versus running up to the line is about disguise. A delayed blitz is a blitz that doesn't start until a count or two after the snap of the ball.

The risk is that at the line they can make the line and protection call, but you are closer to the target. From the LB spot, its less easy to read and you might either get a gap or just the RB filling. I understand the concern about the time to the QB, but with our average blitzers, I would rather play for the opening or RB rather than get a guard on Hawk or Barnett.

[gbgary]

Hell no this isnt the defense's fault. Only gave up 20 points to a high powered cowpukes offense through 3 quarters? Shit, Ill take that any day.

i agree. it was an offensive failure from the playcaller on down.

[Ballboy]

The difference from blitzing from a LB depth versus running up to the line is about disguise. A delayed blitz is a blitz that doesn't start until a count or two after the snap of the ball.

The risk is that at the line they can make the line and protection call, but you are closer to the target. From the LB spot, its less easy to read and you might either get a gap or just the RB filling. I understand the concern about the time to the QB, but with our average blitzers, I would rather play for the opening or RB rather than get a guard on Hawk or Barnett.

If it is such a risk at the line as you say, why then are many teams doing it.....why then on at least three times last night did the Cowboys do it only to have GB throw an incomplete pass?

[pbmax]

You have to get home and hurry the pass. If they can block your guy when they know he is coming, then lining up on the LOS doesn't help. This is the Packers situation. When the O can't block the guy, then you want him closer to the target. The protection changes, and then if you really want to mess with their minds, you drop that guy into coverage while sending someone else.

The Cowboys were having no problem blocking our four with five. In fact, they had a free guard or center most downs. So the first blitzer gets hit with a 330 Lbs guy, not 220 Lbs RB.

Second blitzer then gets the TE or RB. That pulls two guys from our coverage of four receivers.

Packers gave help to Tauscher with Ware an estimated half the time (estimates are from my head). That is 6 blocking 4 with one OL free to pick up the other blitzer. With two OLBs available to rush, the Packers pulled in the TE and RB to block Ware and the blitzer.

That means we have one to two less receivers in the pattern. And that was where Rodgers had trouble. He had fewer options and could only threaten part of the field.



The difference from blitzing from a LB depth versus running up to the line is about disguise. A delayed blitz is a blitz that doesn't start until a count or two after the snap of the ball.

The risk is that at the line they can make the line and protection call, but you are closer to the target. From the LB spot, its less easy to read and you might either get a gap or just the RB filling. I understand the concern about the time to the QB, but with our average blitzers, I would rather play for the opening or RB rather than get a guard on Hawk or Barnett.

If it is such a risk at the line as you say, why then are many teams doing it.....why then on at least three times last night did the Cowboys do it only to have GB throw an incomplete pass?

[pbmax]

The shorter answer is that by scheme or talent, you need to know the odds your guy gets there and affects the throw. If he is getting there often enough, then its worth the risk.

Our guys have gotten home with the right matchups (making the OL miss on occassion but usually beating the RB's block). That means they are dependent on the scheme and getting the matchup you want.

I am not sure that the blitzers for the Cowboys are better than Hawk or Barnett, but with the twin threat of Ware and Ellis, its easier to get a lane to the QB for the Boys. So they would love for you to fret over the blitz and leave Ellis and Ware one on one, or pull in even more blockers. The Packers max protected a lot.

Was this the fault of the O line or QB? Probably both. Which is going to improve faster? Our QB.

[The Gunshooter]

Dallas just said, ok, you want to rush 4 with both safeties over the top? We are going to pound you with Barber. Now when GB was getting pummeled you have to stop that otherwise you are going to get your guys injured, you just can't afford to have Harris and Woodson taking on Barber. So what you do is bring Rouse up. If that doesn't stop, which it will except on short yardage, you bring in a 4th linebacker or a 5th D-lineman. Believe me Dallas will throw. When they do the more guys that rush the passer the more have to stay in and block. You are better off just letting them blow you out then beating you up. I can't help but feel that Dallas not only beat GB this game but they caused GB to go on a rough stretch without Harris, GB will be lucky to make the playoffs now.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This is the one that got me. I (and I'm sure many others) knew before the ball was snapped we were in big trouble if the Cowboys ran left.


Multiple alignment errors opened the door for Felix Jones’ 60-yard TD run in the first quarter. The Packers stacked the offensive right side of the line. Rouse was supposed to be on the other side, where the play went, but he lined up behind the stack instead. Meanwhile, poor communication led to a line shift that put RE Michael Montgomery on the inside shoulder of Witten, who easily pinned him to let Jones get the corner.

[pbmax]

This is the one that got me. I (and I'm sure many others) knew before the ball was snapped we were in big trouble if the Cowboys ran left.


Multiple alignment errors opened the door for Felix Jones’ 60-yard TD run in the first quarter. The Packers stacked the offensive right side of the line. Rouse was supposed to be on the other side, where the play went, but he lined up behind the stack instead. Meanwhile, poor communication led to a line shift that put RE Michael Montgomery on the inside shoulder of Witten, who easily pinned him to let Jones get the corner.
Man this is just depressing. No wonder there was no support over there after he cutback. I wonder if it was Collins' call or if Rouse just planted himself in the wrong spot. And the D lineman adjustment call would have been the LBs, no?

[superfan]

There were times Sunday night when I was hoping, just once or twice, to see the ol' Bob Slowik bring the house blitz. Never thought I would wish to see that again. :shock:

Didn't help that right before kickoff we were watching highlights of the Philly D absolutely pummeling Big Ben. That's what I wanted to see on Sunday night - Romo getting the Roethlisberger treatment.

Most of the time I'm happy with the current defense and scheme, but Romo is deadly when he has time, which happened far too often.

[Bretsky]

There were times Sunday night when I was hoping, just once or twice, to see the ol' Bob Slowik bring the house blitz. Never thought I would wish to see that again. :shock:

Didn't help that right before kickoff we were watching highlights of the Philly D absolutely pummeling Big Ben. That's what I wanted to see on Sunday night - Romo getting the Roethlisberger treatment.

Most of the time I'm happy with the current defense and scheme, but Romo is deadly when he has time, which happened far too often.



Vanilla Bob

[texaspackerbacker]

The Packers Defense is 27th in total yards surrendered.

26th against the Rush

22nd against the Pass

25th in Points allowed.

According to NFL.com.

Playing the Cowboys, playing a passing team that gets three touchdowns behind at home and pulls out all stops, and playing the team with the best RB in the NFL, those things will give you stats like that.

Don't sweat the little things! We're 2-1; Sweat the "1", but not too much. We had to lose to somebody sooner or later. Sooner may be better than later, and losing to the NFL's best isn't near as bad as losing to a lesser team.

[RashanGary]

Rouse has got to be the most overrated Packer.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Rouse has got to be the most overrated Packer.

Rouse was a tackling machine against Dallas, led the team with a whopping 9 tackles, plus 3 assisted tackles.

He took a bad angle on a long touchdown, and Barber slipped through his hands in the backfield on one play. Rouse is a target for those searching for scapegoats because of a couple of obvious errors.

he played fine, had a good game overall.

[RashanGary]

He gave up 2 big TD's in the Lions game on bad alignments and then another one in the Dallas game. It's debatable whether he was supposed to be over the top with Tramon Williams on the deep ball to Austin too.


He's been the biggest culprit of having bad plays. Count me in the Rouse hater category. He might be our 4th best safety after Peprah, Collins and Bigby.

[pbmax]

Before we start pining for Slowik, please consult the Broncos defensive numbers this year. And then recheck the 2004 Packers.

The Philly approach is exciting because it delivers exactly what everyone says they will do on defense: "be agressive".

But the Cowboys abused the Eagles D worse than they abused the Packers. So be careful what scheme you wish for. Romo was more deadly in the Eagles game. But what came to pass on the Packer D was what many predicted after Williams left (a good decision I still maintain). The pass rush has taken a step back. Especially with KGB not at last year's level.

So if we keep Sanders approach (regardless of whether we keep him), we need to find better pass rushers. Somewhere.


There were times Sunday night when I was hoping, just once or twice, to see the ol' Bob Slowik bring the house blitz. Never thought I would wish to see that again. :shock:

Didn't help that right before kickoff we were watching highlights of the Philly D absolutely pummeling Big Ben. That's what I wanted to see on Sunday night - Romo getting the Roethlisberger treatment.

Most of the time I'm happy with the current defense and scheme, but Romo is deadly when he has time, which happened far too often.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm prepared to change my mind and admit Rouse had a bad game in coverage, I didn't notice it, and I admired the tackling clinic he put on.

Lets see what Bob McGinn says tomorrow.