PFW : Packers, Walker moving toward complete separation

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Packers, Walker moving toward complete separation

Green Bay

We hear the Packers are beginning to strongly consider dealing disgruntled WR Javon Walker. General manager Ted Thompson has steadfastly refused claims that Walker would be traded, not because he’s stubborn but citing concern that he would set a precedent that quality players could sit out and be rewarded. Thompson’s fear is that giving in to Walker may increase the chance others could hold the team hostage in a similar vein. But with Walker’s home having been placed on the market and his dislike for the Packers’ organization, including QB Brett Favre, becoming more public by the week, Thompson’s grip on his star receiver isn’t what it once was. There does seem to be a market for the damaged receiver — he tore the anterior cruciate ligament and meniscus in his left knee in Week One last season — based on the lack of veteran talent available and a poor WR crop in the draft. Walker, through his stepfather, Charles Goldsmith, told our sources that no amount of money or resolve will bring Walker back to the Packers. Goldsmith said Walker’s position, outlined to Thompson on Jan. 20, wouldn’t change and that Walker was willing to sit out the season. He’s due $1.15 million in salary and is scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent next March. However, if he sits out the entire season, he would not be credited with an accrued season of experience, which would kill his shot at unrestricted free agency next spring. If he reported in time to play the final six games of ’06, as he’s indicated he would do if he’s not dealt, Walker would earn an accrued season, allowing him to become an unrestricted free agent.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It pisses me off that he only has to report for 6 games to get credit for having played the season. Hell, at least make him play more than 1/2 the games.

[Partial]

Well, they could play hardball and suspend him and not let him get his 6 games. However, I'd rather keep him, let him become a free agent, and franchise him. Then, they can trade him for atleast a second ala Seattle trying to do with Sean Alexander and Indy with Edge.

A 2nd is certainly better than what they'd get now. If all they offer is a 4, then TT should make an example. If someone offers a 1, then I would consider dealing him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, they could play hardball and suspend him and not let him get his 6 games. However, I'd rather keep him, let him become a free agent, and franchise him. Then, they can trade him for atleast a second ala Seattle trying to do with Sean Alexander and Indy with Edge.

The new collective bargaining agreement keeps teams from doing what Philly did last year. I'm not sure, but I think a team can only suspend a player for 4 games or something like that.

[Partial]

Right, I understand that, I was referring if he only comes to play for the 6 games.

If he wants to pull that bs, suspending him is a very easy way of shoving bs right back in his face.

Quite frankly, while I don't want the Packers to be the team to do it, I wish someone would so these players finally clean up their act and start acting like role models.

[Fritz]

Trade him! Trade him!

What do you think TT could get? I'm guessing maybe - maybe a fourth. Get rid of him and move on. The circus atmosphere of last summer did not help this team.

[Partial]

I don't think it hurt it, either.

Tell him to honor his contract or not ever make any money. Tell him he can either play or they will suspend him and he won't be a free agent.

-or-

Franchise him after the season.

Hang onto him so you get value for him

[Rastak]

Right, I understand that, I was referring if he only comes to play for the 6 games.

If he wants to pull that bs, suspending him is a very easy way of shoving bs right back in his face.

Quite frankly, while I don't want the Packers to be the team to do it, I wish someone would so these players finally clean up their act and start acting like role models.

Suspend him for what? Holding out? You can't. You could make something up but good luck with the arbitration hearing.

[Oscar]

Someone help me out here.... Walker can come in for the last six games and get credit for the season..right??? So whats up with the holding the team hostage? Can't any player do the same thing?? Come in for the last six and get the season counted for?? I'm full of questions tonight.. :D But I truly don't understand some of this.

[AtownPackFan]

When a player reports, they have to pass the team physical don't they?

Something tells me if Walker held out for the first 10 games, he would have a very hard time passing the team physical.

I know if I where the Gm, and he had to pass for it to be considered as reporting, he would have a very difficult time passing the team physical before the 11th game was played.

[Rastak]

When a player reports, they have to pass the team physical don't they?

Something tells me if Walker held out for the first 10 games, he would have a very hard time passing the team physical.

I know if I where the Gm, and he had to pass for it to be considered as reporting, he would have a very difficult time passing the team physical before the 11th game was played.

Then he's released right there.....that'd be even better for him than playing the last six games...instant free agent.

[Rastak]

Someone help me out here.... Walker can come in for the last six games and get credit for the season..right??? So whats up with the holding the team hostage? Can't any player do the same thing?? Come in for the last six and get the season counted for?? I'm full of questions tonight.. :D But I truly don't understand some of this.

Yes, any player can, and some have. It's one of the hammers the players have. And if they are smart, they get hurt the first week back and the team can't cut them, they get paid and are UFA the next year.

[Deputy Nutz]

I agree with Fritz, but not a fourth, at least a second if not a first day and a seconday pick. And I am low balling there.

[MadtownPacker]

Get rid of him then. People wanna get rid of Favre for running his mouth about the team sucking but Walker says the whole Organizations sucks and he should stay?? Hell no, trade him to worse AFC team you can for a 1-15 in the 2nd round at worse or activate him if he holds out but dont let him play and them franchise him.

[Guiness]

If both sides try and play hardball, it could be interesting. Lots of issues to consider.

First is money. JW, AFAIK, isn't independantly wealthy, doesn't have any big endorsements, and hasn't gotten his big payday. I wonder what his commitments are, and if he can afford to lose 10 paychecks?

Now, he has said he'd retire before playing in GB again. I have to think that's a bluff - pride is one thing, but he'd literally be walking away from millions of $$$. So throwing out the retirement thing, one of the following would have to happen:

He sits the 10, then does the phantom injury thing, I think he screws himself. As has been pointed out before, he'll be 2yrs removed from football, and all he'll get is a 'prove it' contract.

The other scenario that's been mentioned is that he sits 10 games, and comes back for the final 6, to get his accrued season. If the Packers then tried to suspend him 'For conduct detrimental to the team' or something like that, I wonder how it would work out? Initially, he wouldn't get credit for the games, and hence the season. He'd appeal, I'm sure, and then I guess it would be up to the arbitrator. In the current climate, it looks like he'd win that one.

One more thing to consider - if he did come back and actually play the last 6, does Brett (or Rodgers, or ???) even throw him the ball? Not much, if at all. And I'm thinking he's the #3 receiver. So he finishes the season with 8 catches for 34 yards...not much of a barganing chip in FA.

i dunno *shrug*
got me.

[Bretsky]

WE ARE NOT GETTING FAIR MARKET VALUE FOR A GUY WHO TORE HIS ACL

And I completely disagree about moving him.

Javon Walker is nothing but a spoiled little bratty boy who wants to get his way and most importantly get rich in doing so. But the latter is his only real goal, and he holds none of the cards.

Javon Walker is recovering from the most serious knee injury in the NFL. We will not receive fair market value until he's healthy and we cannot accept a mid tier draft pick for first round talent. An example must be set that players cannot whine their way out of Green Bay, which isn't exactly a place most players want to be in the first place right now IMO.

Ted Thompson should make it very clear to this punk that if Javon Walker is going to play football in 2006, it is going to be for the Green Bay Packers.

Ted Thompson should make it very clear that if Javon Walker is going for his road to riches, he will first have to excel as a Green Bay Packer.

And Ted Thompson should make it very clear that we are not dealing somebody who blatantly attempts to use the media to get his crying wishes.

We are the Green Bay Packers, and Javon Walker is acting like a punk. Do NOT reward his immaturity. Make him play, or let him retire. AND as Partial keeps saying, if he does excel, stick the franchise tag on him and then get a first rounder.

But this little boy's antics should not push the Green Bay Packers around

[Partial]

Then let him rot and franchise him. If he shows what it takes to be in the top 5 number 1s in the league, somebody will give a first rounder for him.

Moss, coming off a mooning and massive embarrassment to his franchise not to mention a grotesque sum of money netted the vikings a starting linebacker and the #7 overall pick in what was deemed the deal of the century.

If I am the Packers, I don't accept anything less than the Broncos #22 pick. I let him play his 6 games and show that he still has it so he makes the big bucks, or I let him fake an injury. Either way, what I do right now is I tell Javon he will be franchised, and if he wants a long term deal he had better come in ready to perform. That would be the best thing they could do. Since this season has already started, they cannot change any rule that would prohibit this.

[MJZiggy]

Everyone's talking about him coming back and faking an injury. If he had a serious injury last year and comes back only to be "injured" in his first game back, doesn't that just tell other GM's all over the league that he's not back and gives him an "injury-prone" rep? Wouldn't that just kill the payday he so desperately wants? By that time he'll be how old, having never proven himself recovered from his injury and having another one. Would you give him the payday then?

[Murphy37]

I agree kids, let him sit the ten games. And when he comes back, have our punter waiting for him when he enters the locker room. Welcome him back with a drop kick to the nut bag. It's called tough love.

[Bretsky]

I agree kids, let him sit the ten games. And when he comes back, have our punter waiting for him when he enters the locker room. Welcome him back with a drop kick to the nut bag. It's called tough love.

SEEING WE HAVE NO HOLDER I WONDER IF HE CAN HOLD FOR THE DITRY BILL ON FIELD GOALS

[Oscar]

SO it is said to let him play the six games??? So what soes that say to the other recievers that busted ASS through camp and the first ten games of the season??I'm lost here.. I'm going for a beer.. :neutral:

[Rastak]

Then let him rot and franchise him. If he shows what it takes to be in the top 5 number 1s in the league, somebody will give a first rounder for him.

Moss, coming off a mooning and massive embarrassment to his franchise not to mention a grotesque sum of money netted the vikings a starting linebacker and the #7 overall pick in what was deemed the deal of the century.

If I am the Packers, I don't accept anything less than the Broncos #22 pick. I let him play his 6 games and show that he still has it so he makes the big bucks, or I let him fake an injury. Either way, what I do right now is I tell Javon he will be franchised, and if he wants a long term deal he had better come in ready to perform. That would be the best thing they could do. Since this season has already started, they cannot change any rule that would prohibit this.


So let me get this straight, he sits for 10 weeks then comes back and fakes an injury. You STILL don't know if he's 100%. Next year you franchise him so he gets top 5 in the league money without having seen him play.
He doesn't sign the franchise tender until the last minute missing all of camp for the second straight year. He gets "hurt" soon after and makes about 7 mil. Does this make sense?

[Partial]

Yes sir.

If we have to keep him and he is only ok, then fine. Pay him 7 mil for one year and let him go. It's not like we're in a tight squeeze against the cap by any means.

When you Franchise him though, someone will pounce for a second round pick minimum. It is tough to find a big, physical receiver.

[MJZiggy]

Correction: It's tough to find a big, physical receiver THAT CAN PLAY. No one knows if he can still play. He could take one hit and legitimately reinjure and never make it back.

[Rastak]

Yes sir.

If we have to keep him and he is only ok, then fine. Pay him 7 mil for one year and let him go. It's not like we're in a tight squeeze against the cap by any means.

When you Franchise him though, someone will pounce for a second round pick minimum. It is tough to find a big, physical receiver.

I don't think you can deal him until he signs the tender, which he'd wait until the season starts. All that F'ing around for a 2nd round pick?

Okay, sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Murphy37]

I never said to start him for the six games. I just said to have the punter kick him in the nut bag. Pay attention.

[Partial]

This is Javon Walker. One of the best, hardest working, physical specimens in the NFL. No doubt in my mind he returns better than ever.

He easily is worth a mid-first round pick. You trade him under the understanding the Packers get a first, he gets a long-term more cap friendly deal, everyone is happy.

[Bretsky]

Yes sir.

If we have to keep him and he is only ok, then fine. Pay him 7 mil for one year and let him go. It's not like we're in a tight squeeze against the cap by any means.

When you Franchise him though, someone will pounce for a second round pick minimum. It is tough to find a big, physical receiver.

I don't think you can deal him until he signs the tender, which he'd wait until the season starts. All that F'ing around for a 2nd round pick?

Okay, sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

RASTAK,

You are assuming JW stays his little boy self instead of finding some sense. When TT takes a hard core stance, that is a decent option.

If JW dogs the whole year either GB can choose to franchise him or he won't get a big payday.

I'm not convinced little boy Walker will dog the whole season. But I'm not giving him away for a measley fourth; I'd rather make a point and end up with a 2nd, 3rd, or less.

[Rastak]

I never said to start him for the six games. I just said to have the punter kick him in the nut bag. Pay attention.

I quoted the other dude.....actually your suggestion would remove him having to fake an injury.

[Rastak]

[quote="Rastak"][quote=Partial]Yes sir.

RASTAK,

You are assuming JW stays his little boy self instead of finding some sense. When TT takes a hard core stance, that is a decent option.

If JW dogs the whole year either GB can choose to franchise him or he won't get a big payday.

I'm not convinced little boy Walker will dog the whole season. But I'm not giving him away for a measley fourth; I'd rather make a point and end up with a 2nd, 3rd, or less.

Yea, I have no idea how serious he is...he was full of crap last year so you may have the right approach.

[Bretsky]

[quote=Rastak][quote=Partial]Yes sir.

RASTAK,

You are assuming JW stays his little boy self instead of finding some sense. When TT takes a hard core stance, that is a decent option.

If JW dogs the whole year either GB can choose to franchise him or he won't get a big payday.

I'm not convinced little boy Walker will dog the whole season. But I'm not giving him away for a measley fourth; I'd rather make a point and end up with a 2nd, 3rd, or less.


It's a calculated gamble Rastak, but one GB must take. I don't think players want to come here right now; if you let a star like JW walk after some petty whining the herd may follow.

Yea, I have no idea how serious he is...he was full of crap last year so you may have the right approach.

[Murphy37]

I never said to start him for the six games. I just said to have the punter kick him in the nut bag. Pay attention.

I quoted the other dude.....actually your suggestion would remove him having to fake an injury.

Yeah I'm just being a juvenile smart ass as usual. I need a whole team of therapists.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Everyone's talking about him coming back and faking an injury. If he had a serious injury last year and comes back only to be "injured" in his first game back, doesn't that just tell other GM's all over the league that he's not back and gives him an "injury-prone" rep?

It worked for Mike McKenzie.

[MJZiggy]

I forgot. What major injury did he have before holding out?

[Rastak]

Everyone's talking about him coming back and faking an injury. If he had a serious injury last year and comes back only to be "injured" in his first game back, doesn't that just tell other GM's all over the league that he's not back and gives him an "injury-prone" rep?

It worked for Mike McKenzie.


Ziggy is kind of right. He pulls all this then he misses 10 weeks of pay and ain't no way in hell he get's a mega deal in UFA for the reasons Ziggy mentioned.


Nobody wins.

[Partial]

McKenzie wasn't coming off a serious injury though. McKenzie was solid, not great. J-Walk is one of the best receivers in the league guys. He will net us a first if they franchise him. Guaranteed!

[MJZiggy]

Only if he plays his 6 and puts up some numbers.

[Rastak]

McKenzie wasn't coming off a serious injury though. McKenzie was solid, not great. J-Walk is one of the best receivers in the league guys. He will net us a first if they franchise him. Guaranteed!


A first round pick for a guy who will be seen as a complete ass? One who hasn't caught a pass in two years? Never.

[Partial]

Randy Moss was a bigger ass. Starting linebacker and the number 7 overall pick.

Walker will play well next year. He will get a mid-first.

If he doesn't play, he'll still get a mid-first because he'll want to workout for teams and get that longterm contract.

You're smoking the reefer man, Walker is no moss, but he is definitely in the top 5 receivers and he is young in football years too.

[Bretsky]

McKenzie wasn't coming off a serious injury though. McKenzie was solid, not great. J-Walk is one of the best receivers in the league guys. He will net us a first if they franchise him. Guaranteed!


A first round pick for a guy who will be seen as a complete ass? One who hasn't caught a pass in two years? Never.


JAVON WALKER CAN MAKE HIS OWN BED, BUT GREEN BAY DOESN"T NEED TO GET HIM A COMFORTABLE CUSHION FOR IT.

If he doesn't warrant a first, then he hasn't played well enough to get the big fat contract he craves.

Either he succeeds or his missed out on the might buck.

[Rastak]

Randy Moss was a bigger ass. Starting linebacker and the number 7 overall pick.

Walker will play well next year. He will get a mid-first.

If he doesn't play, he'll still get a mid-first because he'll want to workout for teams and get that longterm contract.

You're smoking the reefer man, Walker is no moss, but he is definitely in the top 5 receivers and he is young in football years too.

Randy set all time NFL records for how quickly he amased yards and touchdowns. Walker started slow and had one good year....no way they net a mid first......how can you even consider those two guys in the same paragraph?

[Partial]

I plain as day said he's no moss. However, Playmakers come at a price. Javon is one of the true game-altering playmakers in the league. In my opinion, there is moss, to, then javon. He did have his one good year. Keep in mind he hasn't played football for very many years. He was a baseball player. He played what one year of college ball? He's just a freakish athlete who gets bigger and stronger every year like TO.

You can say other receivers are better, but I don't but it. They may get more yards, more touchdowns, or more receptions, but again stats lie. Randy Moss is the best receiver in the league and the past several years his stats did not reflect that. He is the best distraction in the league. He is triple teamed every play.

Walker draws a constant double team and opens everything else up. The man is a true threat. Definitely will get a first for him if he is stronger(which i've heard he put on about 10 pounds) and can still run as fast as he did.

[Bretsky]

Hmmmmmmmmm

Receivers clearly better than a healthy Javon Walker

Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Tory Holt
Steve Smith
Chad Johnson

Maybe Hines Ward ?

Regardless I'd agree that JW brings us a first if healthy. Mid to late 1st.

[Partial]

Hmmmmmmmmm

Receivers clearly better than a healthy Javon Walker

Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Tory Holt
Steve Smith
Chad Johnson

Maybe Hines Ward ?

Regardless I'd agree that JW brings us a first if healthy. Mid to late 1st.

Moss, yes.
Owens, yes.
Holt? Holt is more a posession guy than a big play big time receiver like walker. Walker is certaintly a better deep threat and explosive player. I say no.
Steve Smith - eh? Steve Smith is good, but must we all so soon forget that like Steve Smith, Walker had a career year two years ago, his first real chance to shine. He led the league in receiving yards for most of the year and finished at the top of every category.
Chad Johnson - yes.

Hines Ward - not even close.

Some of those players may be better football players than Javon Walker, but they are not bigger playmakers. Holt is an amazing posession receiver. He is fast and has great hands. Smith is too small to be a deep threat and is like lightning, but JWalk is also extremely fast.

Keep in mind Walker has played 3 complete seasons, and only two years of college ball. He is still very young in football years! Factoring in how every year he has come in about 10 pounds bigger and stronger, I am going to ahead and say that he is dominating and will only get better.

He works out with TO in the off-season. If he gets to be the size of TO he will be equally dominating.

[woodbuck27]

Then let him rot and franchise him. If he shows what it takes to be in the top 5 number 1s in the league, somebody will give a first rounder for him.

Moss, coming off a mooning and massive embarrassment to his franchise not to mention a grotesque sum of money netted the vikings a starting linebacker and the #7 overall pick in what was deemed the deal of the century.

If I am the Packers, I don't accept anything less than the Broncos #22 pick. I let him play his 6 games and show that he still has it so he makes the big bucks, or I let him fake an injury. Either way, what I do right now is I tell Javon he will be franchised, and if he wants a long term deal he had better come in ready to perform. That would be the best thing they could do. Since this season has already started, they cannot change any rule that would prohibit this.


So let me get this straight, he sits for 10 weeks then comes back and fakes an injury. You STILL don't know if he's 100%. Next year you franchise him so he gets top 5 in the league money without having seen him play.
He doesn't sign the franchise tender until the last minute missing all of camp for the second straight year. He gets "hurt" soon after and makes about 7 mil. Does this make sense?



I can't see it making any sense to Ted Thompson.

JW isn't worth Franchise Tag money. Geeee let's see. He's possibly got that serious injury again and played one or more games this Season and Ted will double his rubles from his first contract by franchising him?

NOPE !

[Rastak]

Then let him rot and franchise him. If he shows what it takes to be in the top 5 number 1s in the league, somebody will give a first rounder for him.

Moss, coming off a mooning and massive embarrassment to his franchise not to mention a grotesque sum of money netted the vikings a starting linebacker and the #7 overall pick in what was deemed the deal of the century.

If I am the Packers, I don't accept anything less than the Broncos #22 pick. I let him play his 6 games and show that he still has it so he makes the big bucks, or I let him fake an injury. Either way, what I do right now is I tell Javon he will be franchised, and if he wants a long term deal he had better come in ready to perform. That would be the best thing they could do. Since this season has already started, they cannot change any rule that would prohibit this.


So let me get this straight, he sits for 10 weeks then comes back and fakes an injury. You STILL don't know if he's 100%. Next year you franchise him so he gets top 5 in the league money without having seen him play.
He doesn't sign the franchise tender until the last minute missing all of camp for the second straight year. He gets "hurt" soon after and makes about 7 mil. Does this make sense?



I can't see it making any sense to Ted Thompson.

JW isn't worth Franchise Tag money. Geeee let's see. He's possibly got that serious injury again and played one or more games this Season and Ted will double his rubles from his first contract by franchising him?

NOPE !


It's a tough situation. I can see both sides as a neutral observer....
From the outside it will be interesting to see how it all ends.

[Partial]

TT won't deal him unless he gets a good offer. He knows the value of what he can get now versus what he can get later, and the grass is greener later.

[packrulz]

What if Denver offered their 2 1st rounders for the Packs 1st and Walker? I wouldn't be that thrilled with it but it's better than losing Walker and getting nothing for him. Mario will probably be gone anyway & TT could still get Greenway & maybe Hali.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd rather have Hawk and Javon than Greenway and Hali. We need playmakers.

I'd rather do something like Javon for Faine and a midround pick.

[Partial]

Faine is going to cost a 4th. I'd make that trade in a heart beat and trade down in the second to get the oklahoma guard

[packrulz]

That would be good. How about Javon & the #5 for the Texans #1 overall. I doubt it would happen but Sherman drafted Walker and they need him so it doesn't hurt to ask them.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That would be good. How about Javon & the #5 for the Texans #1 overall. I doubt it would happen but Sherman drafted Walker and they need him so it doesn't hurt to ask them.

Not a bad idea, but the Texans just got Eric Moulds to pair with Andre Johnson.

[packrulz]

"Moulds, who had the Bills' permission to seek a trade, agreed to a four-year contract. It's not clear what the Texans traded to Buffalo, but it's believed to be a fourth- or fifth-round pick in this month's draft."

I think the Texans got a good deal.

[BooHoo]

I wish there was a way to keep walker. He has a great talent. I dislike all of the mouthing off and his charge to not ever play for the packers. He is clearly into himself and a big baby. That said, I would be in favor of trading this pack basher but only for a very high draft pick. And how many teams will give a high pick for a once injured player?

[MJZiggy]

They did say that TT won't take anything less than a blockbuster deal for him so let's see what his definition of blockbuster is.

[BooHoo]

They did say that TT won't take anything less than a blockbuster deal for him so let's see what his definition of blockbuster is.

And I dreaming to think we can get a first rounder for this guy?

[HarveyWallbangers]

And I dreaming to think we can get a first rounder for this guy?

I think so. Right now, I doubt we could get a 2nd rounder for him. I think Thompson would jump at the opportunity to get a 2nd round for him. Rumors were that Denver offered a 4th round pick. Why would a team trade for a WR who is coming off a major injury, who always whining about his contract, and who will be a FA after this season?

[Patler]

Walker presents many risks to any team interested in him, which make it unlikely the Packers will get a real high pick for him without Walker first returning and playing.

His physical recovery from the injury is a risk.

His mental recovery from the injury is a risk (many say it takes a year to play without worrying about it).

His attitude is a risk (will he soon tire of his new team and be a disruption?).

Some will disagree, but his performance is still a risk. He had one good year, and part of the year before. There are many examples of players who flash on the scene a year or two, but can not perform that way year after year when defenses put more emphasis on them. If you look at Walker's 2004 performance, His first 8 games were better than his last 8 games. How will he peform when defenses really know he is the weapon?

Some players with huge talent simply self-destruct because of their attitudes. No one knows if Walker is one of those or not

[swede]

Walker presents many risks to any team interested in him, which make it unlikely the Packers will get a real high pick for him without Walker first returning and playing.

This is why we have to hope some very bad GM will take him for a 1st or 2nd round pick.

I can't imagine any GM is that bad.

[MJZiggy]

Walker presents many risks to any team interested in him, which make it unlikely the Packers will get a real high pick for him without Walker first returning and playing.

This is why we have to hope some very bad GM will take him for a 1st or 2nd round pick.

I can't imagine any GM is that bad.Maybe Sherman has some pull in TX?

[Guiness]

Yes sir.

If we have to keep him and he is only ok, then fine. Pay him 7 mil for one year and let him go. It's not like we're in a tight squeeze against the cap by any means.

When you Franchise him though, someone will pounce for a second round pick minimum. It is tough to find a big, physical receiver.

I don't get why another team would give the Pack a 1st or 2nd rounder for him NEXT year, when he's franchised. If they were willing to give that up, why wouldn't they do it now?

[MJZiggy]

'cause he will have played this year to show them what he can do.

[Guiness]

I never said to start him for the six games. I just said to have the punter kick him in the nut bag. Pay attention.

I quoted the other dude.....actually your suggestion would remove him having to fake an injury.

Yeah I'm just being a juvenile smart ass as usual. I need a whole team of therapists.

Nah, you were right on. I know some guys from Winnepeg - they'd appreciate your sense of humour. That punter we signed from the Blue Bombers would likely be up for it!

I talked to a guy who watched him in practice. He regularly booms off 70 yarders with no rush...wow, that would smart :cry:

[imscott72]

TT has always said he'll do whats best for the Green Bay Packers. Accepting anything less than a VERY high 2nd or a 1st for someone of Javon's talent isn't whats best for the team. Make his whiny ass sit and sweat it out. I'm so fed up with these guys playing this game. Dammit, take a stand and make him earn his big payday just like everyone else has to. How is his greedy family going to like it when he's has no salary coming in this year??

[Bretsky]

Hmmmmmmmmm

Receivers clearly better than a healthy Javon Walker

Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Tory Holt
Steve Smith
Chad Johnson

Maybe Hines Ward ?

Regardless I'd agree that JW brings us a first if healthy. Mid to late 1st.

Moss, yes.
Owens, yes.
Holt? Holt is more a posession guy than a big play big time receiver like walker. Walker is certaintly a better deep threat and explosive player. I say no.
Steve Smith - eh? Steve Smith is good, but must we all so soon forget that like Steve Smith, Walker had a career year two years ago, his first real chance to shine. He led the league in receiving yards for most of the year and finished at the top of every category.
Chad Johnson - yes.

Hines Ward - not even close.

Some of those players may be better football players than Javon Walker, but they are not bigger playmakers. Holt is an amazing posession receiver. He is fast and has great hands. Smith is too small to be a deep threat and is like lightning, but JWalk is also extremely fast.

Keep in mind Walker has played 3 complete seasons, and only two years of college ball. He is still very young in football years! Factoring in how every year he has come in about 10 pounds bigger and stronger, I am going to ahead and say that he is dominating and will only get better.

He works out with TO in the off-season. If he gets to be the size of TO he will be equally dominating.


WOW,
My only comment is your greatly underestimate Tory Holt. He may not have the size, but he's the best route runner in the NFL and a better WR than Javon Walker.

[Partial]

Holt is a great receiver, don't get me wrong, i'd kill for him!! but Walker is a bigger threat to take it to the house everytime. You cannot teach size and Walker is a big man that is hard to take down with the ability to take it to the house everytime he touches the ball

[Bretsky]

Holt is a great receiver, don't get me wrong, i'd kill for him!! but Walker is a bigger threat to take it to the house everytime. You cannot teach size and Walker is a big man that is hard to take down with the ability to take it to the house everytime he touches the ball

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. IMO Holt is a greater threat than Walker to get open consistently and take it to the House. Yes, Walker will break more tackles, but honestly he doesn't break that many. But Holt gets wide open much more often going to the house. Last year on Sunday Night FB they isolated Holt on a change of direction fly pattern and quoted some scouts saying Holt is the only receiver in the NFL to master that route which most WR's are not even capable of running. Holt is a huge playmaker.

[Partial]

I guess I haven't seen him enough to judge his play. He always seemed to be such a good receiver since he was with a great number 2 and running game, with an offense geared at the big play.

I'll watch him and see what happens. He's definitely top 10 in my opinion, probably about number 5. Walker just squeeks him past because he is such a deep threat, but we'll have to see, i've been wrong before.

[imscott72]

I've gotta agree with B on this one. Holt is better than JWalk. Plus holt has done it for years, JWalk has one good year under his belt. JWalk has to show me more before he's in Holt's league..

[HarveyWallbangers]

Holt is better than Walker.

[b bulldog]

hOLT is way better than Walker.

[woodbuck27]

hOLT is way better than Walker.


Walker = HOLT ? NOPE ! Tory Holt is one of the men at WR.

[Partial]

dude you guys just watch. Walker is gonna come in at like 230 and faster than ever and be a monster. Walker is a workoutaholic like TO. Unfortunately, he is getting the big head and ego of TO, too.

Holt is probably a better posession receiver. If you need the big play though, I am telling ya Walker's combination of size, speed and explosiveness is matched by few, and Holt is not in the same ballpark!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Walker is better on the deep balls because of his leaping ability and height, but Holt is better in just better everything else (hands, route running, RAC, sideline catches, etc.).

[imscott72]

dude you guys just watch. Walker is gonna come in at like 230 and faster than ever and be a monster. Walker is a workoutaholic like TO. Unfortunately, he is getting the big head and ego of TO, too.

Holt is probably a better posession receiver. If you need the big play though, I am telling ya Walker's combination of size, speed and explosiveness is matched by few, and Holt is not in the same ballpark!


Holt's last 3 years

2003-04 St. Louis 16 117 1696 106.0 14.5 48 3.2 84 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
2004-05 St. Louis 16 94 1372 85.8 14.6 75 3.3 58 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 1
2005-06 St. Louis 14 102 1331 95.1 13.0 44 2.4 63 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 1
Career Totals (Full) 110 619 9487 86.2 15.3 85 3.8 424 54 0 0 0.0 0 0 3 15 5.0 11 0 15 7

Walker's last 3 yrs

2003-04 Green Bay 16 41 716 44.8 17.5 66 4.3 27 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
2004-05 Green Bay 16 89 1382 86.4 15.5 79 3.9 63 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2
2005-06 Green Bay 1 4 27 27.0 6.8 9 0.0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Career Totals (Full) 48 157 2444 50.9 15.6 79 3.9 106 22 35 769 22.0 55 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 4 4


Walker was a monster in 04-05 sure, but he's no Torry Holt..Walker need to show he can do it more than once, Torri has done that..

[HarveyWallbangers]

Holt's last 3 years

2003-04 St. Louis 16 117 1696 106.0 14.5 48 3.2 84 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
2004-05 St. Louis 16 94 1372 85.8 14.6 75 3.3 58 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 1
2005-06 St. Louis 14 102 1331 95.1 13.0 44 2.4 63 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 1
Career Totals 110 619 9487 86.2 15.3 85 3.8 424 54 0 0 0.0 0 0 3 15 5.0 11 0 15 7

Walker's last 3 yrs

2003-04 Green Bay 16 41 716 44.8 17.5 66 4.3 27 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
2004-05 Green Bay 16 89 1382 86.4 15.5 79 3.9 63 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2
2005-06 Green Bay 1 4 27 27.0 6.8 9 0.0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Career Totals 48 157 2444 50.9 15.6 79 3.9 106 22 35 769 22.0 55 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 4 4

[esoxx]

Holt is better than Walker.


So is Marvin Harrison.

[Bretsky]

dude you guys just watch. Walker is gonna come in at like 230 and faster than ever and be a monster. Walker is a workoutaholic like TO. Unfortunately, he is getting the big head and ego of TO, too.

Holt is probably a better posession receiver. If you need the big play though, I am telling ya Walker's combination of size, speed and explosiveness is matched by few, and Holt is not in the same ballpark!

Partial,

Walker will have some pains working through the knee injury. You really need to watch Holt more. Isaac Bruce is the possession receiver. Holt is not. He is the playmaker. He's the 3rd best WR in the NFL.

[Partial]

Harvey, the one season that is even comparable between the two would be the 2004 season. The other two should be thrown out. Walker played one quarter in one of the seasons. The other season was his second season and he was the third wideout. It is not fair to compare a player's 5th season stats to someone in his second when trying to compare the two.

As you can see, in 2004, the one comparable year, they were virtually identical receivers. In 2004, Holt had 10 touchdowns. Walker had 12. If anything, Walker showed he is the better receiver.

This is neglecting the fact that Walker began playing football in 2000 in college. Holt began playing pro ball in 1999. Holt is a much more experienced wide receiver in all the years you compared. I don't think thats fair.

By the time you could call them both veterans, Javon has put up better stats.

[Bretsky]

[quote="Partial"]Harvey, the one season that is even comparable between the two would be the 2004 season. The other two should be thrown out. Walker played one quarter in one of the seasons. The other season was his second season and he was the third wideout. It is not fair to compare a player's 5th season stats to someone in his second when trying to compare the two.

As you can see, in 2004, the one comparable year, they were virtually identical receivers. In 2004, Holt had 10 touchdowns. Walker had 12. If anything, Walker showed he is the better receiver.

This is neglecting the fact that Walker began playing football in 2000 in college. Holt began playing pro ball in 1999. Holt is a much more experienced wide receiver in all the years you compared. I don't think thats fair.




Once again we'll have to agree to disagree, but it's fun arguing with ya cause we agree on almost everything.

I'll come right out and admit the Rams are my second favorite team since the days of Vince Ferragamo in the 80's so I've watched Holt very closely for that reason and also the fact that he's been on several of my auction teams. He's a better and more consistent big time playmaker than JW.

When healthy Walker is certainly in the top 5-7 WR's. Maybe top 4-6, but he is not in the same class as Tory Holt. Walker has had one year that was a Holt like year. He'll never have the hands, route running ability, or ability to get open on every pattern that Holt does. He'll always have the edge in height and leaping ability so the potential will be there, but he's never been as talented as Holt. Holt was the better college player at NC State and the better pro.

[HarveyWallbangers]

When they are healthy, he is my WR rankings:

1) Randy Moss (barely stays healthy anymore though)
2) Terrell Owens
3) Chad Johnson
4) Torry Holt
5) Marvin Harrison
6) Steve Smith
7) Anquan Boldin
8) Javon Walker
9) Hines Ward
10) Maybe Larry Fitzgerald, but Donald Driver is right there (he's so underrated it's sick)