Pull The Trigger Teddy

[Pacopete4]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/09/25/tony-looking-to-be-gonzo-from-kc/




go get em.. there is a our Witten! make us a real threat THIS YEAR!

[Tony Oday]

a 3rd rounder wouldnt be bad for Gonzo.

[CaliforniaCheez]

It is exactly the kind of move Ted would not make.

[Gunakor]

I'm fine with the TE's on our roster right now. Adding Gonzo would improve our offense, but not by a huge amount. Certainly not enough that it would make us a better contender than we already are. The offensive improvement would not be worth the cost. TE's haven't been a huge part of the Packer offense for a couple years now.

[RashanGary]

It is exactly the kind of move Ted would not make.

I disagree. This is the kind of great NFL player TT would want and be willing to pay for.

I could see a 2nd easy.

[mngolf19]

Not sure of contract and age, but would be exactly what the Vikes could use. I'd be up for that if no more than a 2nd.

[pbmax]

Will Tony Gonzalez block better from the backfield in shotgun than Donald Lee? :lol:

[BobDobbs]

I'm fine with the TE's on our roster right now. Adding Gonzo would improve our offense, but not by a huge amount. Certainly not enough that it would make us a better contender than we already are. The offensive improvement would not be worth the cost. TE's haven't been a huge part of the Packer offense for a couple years now.

I think that the main reason that TEs haven't been a major part of our offense is that we haven't had anyone better than average. An athlete that is 6'6" 260 has balance, good hands, and can run is very hard to find. And alot of them are playing in the NBA.

Because of his age and the fact that we just drafted a TE I don't know if this hypothetical tradew will happen. But, he would radically change our offense. Often times now teams play him with two defenders. If they wanted to do that then what about Donald or Greg? One of those three would put up big numbers every game.

Are running game might even improve because one safety is going to have to play back to watch out for him.

[Freak Out]

Could we be looking to trade for a CB after this weekends game? :lol: I have always liked Gonzo but is this the biggest need at this time? Maybe...?

[texaspackerbacker]

It is exactly the kind of move Ted would not make.

You beat me to it. This would be an un-Packer-like move; We're fine at TE right now; And I'm not sure Gonzales hasn't lost a step or two or three. And undoubtedly, he isn't gonna be as cheap as a 3rd or 4th.

[Pacopete4]

Gonzo is a dude that could rack up over 100 catches in a good offense.. he'd make is unpredictable in the pass game and very, very deep with talent...


maybe people are forgetting the 50 first downs witten caught on 3rd down last week... those players are difference makers NOT D Lee or J Jone...

[cpk1994]

Gonzo is a dude that could rack up over 100 catches in a good offense.. he'd make is unpredictable in the pass game and very, very deep with talent...


maybe people are forgetting the 50 first downs witten caught on 3rd down last week... those players are difference makers NOT D Lee or J Jone...But you don't go after a player at a postition where you are covered vs. the secondary which is a M.A.S.H. unit. If you are going to trade for someone, you trade for a CB or S. Don't need Gonzalez.

[Pacopete4]

if you can name me a CB out there that is the equal talent of Gonzo... I'll say go for it but I don't think there is....


side note, we are NOT ok at TE... D. Lee is average at best and Sir Humpsalot is just... eh


anothe side note, would u like to be OK at a position or have a Witten type player like the cowboys do?... all I can get outta my head is 3rd and 6... FIRST DOWN JASON WITTEN!... movin the chains keeps ur D off t he field too...

[cpk1994]

if you can name me a CB out there that is the equal talent of Gonzo... I'll say go for it but I don't think there is....


side note, we are NOT ok at TE... D. Lee is average at best and Sir Humpsalot is just... eh


anothe side note, would u like to be OK at a position or have a Witten type player like the cowboys do?... all I can get outta my head is 3rd and 6... FIRST DOWN JASON WITTEN!... movin the chains keeps ur D off t he field too...As another poster said, and I agree with, I am fine with the TE we have. The secondary is the bigger issue right now. That should be the focus.

[bobblehead]

if you can name me a CB out there that is the equal talent of Gonzo... I'll say go for it but I don't think there is....


side note, we are NOT ok at TE... D. Lee is average at best and Sir Humpsalot is just... eh


anothe side note, would u like to be OK at a position or have a Witten type player like the cowboys do?... all I can get outta my head is 3rd and 6... FIRST DOWN JASON WITTEN!... movin the chains keeps ur D off t he field too...As another poster said, and I agree with, I am fine with the TE we have. The secondary is the bigger issue right now. That should be the focus.

you trade for quality players that are available, not ones that are not.

[Kyle.McCarroll]

It is exactly the kind of move Ted would not make.

I disagree. This is the kind of great NFL player TT would want and be willing to pay for.

I could see a 2nd easy.

I don't think so. TT give up his precious draft picks for a 32 year old?? I don't see that happening. Think of all the TE's he could get in the draft! :wink:

[cpk1994]

if you can name me a CB out there that is the equal talent of Gonzo... I'll say go for it but I don't think there is....


side note, we are NOT ok at TE... D. Lee is average at best and Sir Humpsalot is just... eh


anothe side note, would u like to be OK at a position or have a Witten type player like the cowboys do?... all I can get outta my head is 3rd and 6... FIRST DOWN JASON WITTEN!... movin the chains keeps ur D off t he field too...As another poster said, and I agree with, I am fine with the TE we have. The secondary is the bigger issue right now. That should be the focus.

you trade for quality players that are available, not ones that are not.You are putting words in my mouth. I never said they should trade for a CB. I said they should focus on what to do with the secondary instead of filling and spending money on a position that is adeqaute to begin with.

[Pacopete4]

if you can name me a CB out there that is the equal talent of Gonzo... I'll say go for it but I don't think there is....


side note, we are NOT ok at TE... D. Lee is average at best and Sir Humpsalot is just... eh


anothe side note, would u like to be OK at a position or have a Witten type player like the cowboys do?... all I can get outta my head is 3rd and 6... FIRST DOWN JASON WITTEN!... movin the chains keeps ur D off t he field too...As another poster said, and I agree with, I am fine with the TE we have. The secondary is the bigger issue right now. That should be the focus.

you trade for quality players that are available, not ones that are not.You are putting words in my mouth. I never said they should trade for a CB. I said they should focus on what to do with the secondary instead of filling and spending money on a position that is adeqaute to begin with.



they cant do both? TT doesn't have enough free time right now? haha

[digitaldean]

Gonzo = STRETCHING THE FIELD

He's Keith Jackson , part deux.

I doubt TT would trade for him though.

Is he worth it? Of course!

[ahaha]

The DB situation is a separate matter, unless there is a capable veteren on one of those crappy teams, that is worth trading for. Maybe, but I don't see it. The only way we're getting a DB is through the scrap heap or off some team's practice squad.

Getting Gonzolez for a second would be f@#kin' tits! We'll probably get a third for Favre, so we can part with one measly second.
Just think about how explosive our offense could be with a TE who is worth a double-team?

[Kyle.McCarroll]

Getting Gonzolez for a second would be f@#kin' tits! We'll probably get a third for Favre, so we can part with one measly second.
Just think about how explosive our offense could be with a TE who is worth a double-team?

It would be nice, but this is NEVER, EVER going to happen.

[BZnDallas]

i actually think this is a move TT would make... Tony G. is a TT type guy... hes not a head case and he can open up the field... like a read up above, he can help the defense stay off the field by increasing our third down conversion % and could help the run game aswell... i don't necesarily think it will happen... but i'd be ok with giving up a 3rd or 4th rounder for him.. not sure about a 2nd though... and one other thing, at some point TT can't keep drafting 12 guys every year, hes gotta keep some of the ones hes already drafted around... letting go of a draft pick for some added vetran leadership isn't a bad idea...

[pbmax]

I'm not buying it. All this speculation after the guy said he wanted to stay.

Second, neither Witten nor Gonzalez are field stretchers like Keith Jackson was. They don't have the same speed. Both are good, and Witten is a better blocker than Jackson, but it wouldn't have the same impact as Jackson's signing.

Third, TE has not been a focus on McCarthy's offense. Even if the 32 year old figures out the offense, McCarthy isn't going to feed him like Holmgren or Sherman fed the TE. Gonzalez has been the best receiver on the Chiefs for years. Here he would be third. No way, even for a full season does he approach his catch totals from the Chiefs.

Fourth, McCarthy would have to want him bad. A vet like this will need attention from the passing game. He is not going to come here to block in the shotgun.

Last, didn't Thompson already pass up on Gonzalez the last time his contract came up? Or did he resign right away with the Chiefs?

[Pacopete4]

I'm not buying it. All this speculation after the guy said he wanted to stay.

Second, neither Witten nor Gonzalez are field stretchers like Keith Jackson was. They don't have the same speed. Both are good, and Witten is a better blocker than Jackson, but it wouldn't have the same impact as Jackson's signing.

Third, TE has not been a focus on McCarthy's offense. Even if the 32 year old figures out the offense, McCarthy isn't going to feed him like Holmgren or Sherman fed the TE. Gonzalez has been the best receiver on the Chiefs for years. Here he would be third. No way, even for a full season does he approach his catch totals from the Chiefs.

Fourth, McCarthy would have to want him bad. A vet like this will need attention from the passing game. He is not going to come here to block in the shotgun.

Last, didn't Thompson already pass up on Gonzalez the last time his contract came up? Or did he resign right away with the Chiefs?


you're right.. itd have a greater impact because Keith Jackson couldn't hold Witten or Gonzo's jock

[pbmax]

you're right.. itd have a greater impact because Keith Jackson couldn't hold Witten or Gonzo's jock
Are you that young that you don't remember Keith Jackson? Keith Jackson was phenomenal. Think back to his days with the Eagles and Dolphins too. Jackson was a better deep threat than either of these two guys. Speed to burn and great hands. And while he was not enthusiastic, he wasn't all that bad a blocker.

[TravisWilliams23]

Here's a video of what Jackson did for Green Bay vs Dallas in
the 95 Championship game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xqV4IEJX1I&feature=related

He had the size, speed and hands that you dream your tight end would have.

He wouldn't have to take a back seat to any of today's players.

[BZnDallas]

keith jackson was a baller of a tight end, there is no doubt about that... but having both him and chewy line up on the same line, its a no brainer that one of 'em would have been open...

i'm not here to compare keith to tony, but gonzalez can get the job done too... the man has hardly sniffed the playoffs... you don't think he'd accept being the #3 option in an offense that has a good chance of making the playoffs this year and in years to come as long has he'd want to play?... the only way i make the deal is if he says he wants to play multiple years, kinda like when they were thinking about bringing in jason taylor...

i'm just saying tony g is a good character guy and is an upgrade over what we have at the position right now... why argue with trying to get as many weapons for AR as they can?? i don't get it... just one mans opinion

[cpk1994]

I'm not buying it. All this speculation after the guy said he wanted to stay.

Second, neither Witten nor Gonzalez are field stretchers like Keith Jackson was. They don't have the same speed. Both are good, and Witten is a better blocker than Jackson, but it wouldn't have the same impact as Jackson's signing.

Third, TE has not been a focus on McCarthy's offense. Even if the 32 year old figures out the offense, McCarthy isn't going to feed him like Holmgren or Sherman fed the TE. Gonzalez has been the best receiver on the Chiefs for years. Here he would be third. No way, even for a full season does he approach his catch totals from the Chiefs.

Fourth, McCarthy would have to want him bad. A vet like this will need attention from the passing game. He is not going to come here to block in the shotgun.

Last, didn't Thompson already pass up on Gonzalez the last time his contract came up? Or did he resign right away with the Chiefs?


you're right.. itd have a greater impact because Keith Jackson couldn't hold Witten or Gonzo's jockThat statemnt shows one of two things:

1. You a way to young to remember Jackson

or

2. You are just ignorant.

[texaspackerbacker]

Getting Gonzolez for a second would be f@#kin' tits! We'll probably get a third for Favre, so we can part with one measly second.
Just think about how explosive our offense could be with a TE who is worth a double-team?

It would be nice, but this is NEVER, EVER going to happen.

This is the harsh dose of reality for those wanting to get Gonzales. Also, everybody seems to assume that Gonzales now is as good as Gonzales 5 or so years ago. I wouldn't quite leap to that conclusion.

[gbgary]

if we were a tight-end away from the sb i'd say do it. since we're not...nevermind.

[Kyle.McCarroll]

Getting Gonzolez for a second would be f@#kin' tits! We'll probably get a third for Favre, so we can part with one measly second.
Just think about how explosive our offense could be with a TE who is worth a double-team?

It would be nice, but this is NEVER, EVER going to happen.

This is the harsh dose of reality for those wanting to get Gonzales. Also, everybody seems to assume that Gonzales now is as good as Gonzales 5 or so years ago. I wouldn't quite leap to that conclusion.

Exactly.

[Fritz]

I'm not buying it. All this speculation after the guy said he wanted to stay.

Second, neither Witten nor Gonzalez are field stretchers like Keith Jackson was. They don't have the same speed. Both are good, and Witten is a better blocker than Jackson, but it wouldn't have the same impact as Jackson's signing.

Third, TE has not been a focus on McCarthy's offense. Even if the 32 year old figures out the offense, McCarthy isn't going to feed him like Holmgren or Sherman fed the TE. Gonzalez has been the best receiver on the Chiefs for years. Here he would be third. No way, even for a full season does he approach his catch totals from the Chiefs.

Fourth, McCarthy would have to want him bad. A vet like this will need attention from the passing game. He is not going to come here to block in the shotgun.

Last, didn't Thompson already pass up on Gonzalez the last time his contract came up? Or did he resign right away with the Chiefs?


you're right.. itd have a greater impact because Keith Jackson couldn't hold Witten or Gonzo's jockThat statemnt shows one of two things:

1. You a way to young to remember Jackson

or

2. You are just ignorant.

Sorry, but I've got to agree with Pacopete on this one. Keith Jackson was an awesome, awesome announcer - the way he'd say "Fu-u-u-u-u-u-mb-u-u-u-u-l-l!" was enough to bring tears to any fan's eyes. And I've never seen anyone look better in a yellow sports jacket - but I don't recall that he was all that big or fast. I think Gonzo and Witten are probably much better football players, but I bet they can't announce for crap. Not like ol' Keith Jackson.

[Zool]

WOOOOAAHHHH NELLIE

[bobblehead]

if we were a tight-end away from the sb i'd say do it. since we're not...nevermind.

I'm not so sure we aren't. I actually am not so sure that by week 17 we won't be the favorite in the NFC. If you are that down on the pack due to one game...well I just don't understand that.

[Gunakor]

you're right.. itd have a greater impact because Keith Jackson couldn't hold Witten or Gonzo's jock
Are you that young that you don't remember Keith Jackson? Keith Jackson was phenomenal. Think back to his days with the Eagles and Dolphins too. Jackson was a better deep threat than either of these two guys. Speed to burn and great hands. And while he was not enthusiastic, he wasn't all that bad a blocker.


Agreed. Keith Jackson was one of the better TE's of his time. And considering the offensive package that Holmgren ran, he was the perfect compliment to Chewy and a big reason for our SB run.

Here's the difference though. McCarthy doesn't have the same offensive philosophy that Holmgren did. The TE's are not a big part of his gameplan. MM has preferred to spread the defense out wide with 4 or 5 WR sets, use the shotgun (something Holmgren never did if I'm remembering correctly), and use the talent he has at the WR position - a level of talent that Holmgren never really had and that Wolf has regretted giving him.

Gonzo wouldn't get the ball as much as you think he would. He'd make an impact on our offense, without a doubt, but I don't think it would be enough of an impact to warrant a day 1 draft pick. At least in terms of how efficient our offense is already. Maybe a 4th rounder, seeing as how his impact would be minimal and he'd only be around for a few years anyway. But KC isn't going to deal him for a 4th, since there are teams he'd be worth a 2nd to. IMO he's just not worth a 2nd or even a 3rd to us.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

if we were a tight-end away from the sb i'd say do it. since we're not...nevermind.

I'm not so sure we aren't. I actually am not so sure that by week 17 we won't be the favorite in the NFC. If you are that down on the pack due to one game...well I just don't understand that.

Relentless optimism won't change the facts. The Boys are the class of the NFC.

[arcilite]

Why the hell are so many people eager to trade away valuable draft picks for a 32 year old tight end?


We got to this point by doing the exact opposite. Holding onto draft picks and not going after 'big name' people who likely won't produce results.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Why the hell are so many people eager to trade away valuable draft picks for a 32 year old tight end?


We got to this point by doing the exact opposite. Holding onto draft picks and not going after 'big name' people who likely won't produce results.

Same reason married men get divorced, only to wind up right back where they started.

Grass ALWAYS looks greener.

[Tony Oday]

I would love to see Gonzo playing in our 5 WR set...sure he is a TE but how can a LB line up on him in and win?

I think he would be a great pickup and is a Packer person and can solidify a spot with Veteran leadership to show Lee just how its done at that position.

I see a lot of trades happening this year for some reason :)

[KYPack]

This is a totally "anti-TT" type deal. There is no way it will happen.

If any deal would come down, which I really doubt, it would be for a corner. We got a vet TE and two subs. We won't trade for another.

[pbmax]

And I've never seen anyone look better in a yellow sports jacket....
Fritz, you win the thread and my undying admiration. This line made my week. Take $50 out of petty cash too. :D

[BZnDallas]

the one thing i don't see anybody disputing is the fact that Tony G would be an upgrade to our TE position... THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OF THE BALL!!! maybe the reason MMs offense doesn't utilize the TE position is b/c he doesn't have one with Tony Gs abilities... whether or not Tony G would get 100 receptions is pointless... we all know with the WRs on this team, its going to be hard for any of them to get that kind of production...

the point, IMO is that Tony G would add another viable option and OPEN this offense up... yes i agree he isn't what he used to be, BUT HES STILL BETTER THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE RIGHT NOW!!! even though i like D. Lee... putting a TE out there with Tony Gs abilities takes defenders way from our other WRs and RBs... and must i say again this has nothing to do with bringing in another CB... i think the packers have plenty of money saved to do BOTH if TT wanted to... just one mans opinion

[Fred's Slacks]

Relentless optimism won't change the facts. The Boys are the class of the NFC.

Yes, right now they are. By the time the season is over it could very well change. Were we any where near as good in week 3 last year as we were week 17? We're pretty banged up right now and we're still a very young team. Once we get guys like Grant, Wells, Sitton, Hall, Jones, Harris, Bigby and Harrell healthy, this team could take a big step foward. In the mean time we're giving guys like Nelson, Jackson, Williams, Blackmon and Rouse more game experience. Couple that with our coaching staff's reputation for being good teachers and I think our upside is very high. I don't think the Cowboys, as good as they are, have as much room for improvement. I am almost more worried about the Eagles and the Giants.

I was actually very impressed with our defense against the boys. Their 3 big plays where the difference in that game and I don't think 2 of them would have happened if Harris and Bigby were healthy. Those 2 alone would have made a difference in that game. I am not trying to blame the loss on injuries, the Cowboys did look like the better team, but I am not going to concede a loss if we meet them again.

[Kyle.McCarroll]

the one thing i don't see anybody disputing is the fact that Tony G would be an upgrade to our TE position... THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OF THE BALL!!! maybe the reason MMs offense doesn't utilize the TE position is b/c he doesn't have one with Tony Gs abilities... whether or not Tony G would get 100 receptions is pointless... we all know with the WRs on this team, its going to be hard for any of them to get that kind of production...

Exactly. Just how much better would this really make us?? We all know that A-Rod has plenty of weapons. If we made any kind of deal (which I doubt we will), I would think it would be to bolster weaker positions, like CB, DL, or OL.

[mraynrand]

I'm not buying it. All this speculation after the guy said he wanted to stay.

Second, neither Witten nor Gonzalez are field stretchers like Keith Jackson was. They don't have the same speed. Both are good, and Witten is a better blocker than Jackson, but it wouldn't have the same impact as Jackson's signing.

Third, TE has not been a focus on McCarthy's offense. Even if the 32 year old figures out the offense, McCarthy isn't going to feed him like Holmgren or Sherman fed the TE. Gonzalez has been the best receiver on the Chiefs for years. Here he would be third. No way, even for a full season does he approach his catch totals from the Chiefs.

Fourth, McCarthy would have to want him bad. A vet like this will need attention from the passing game. He is not going to come here to block in the shotgun.

Last, didn't Thompson already pass up on Gonzalez the last time his contract came up? Or did he resign right away with the Chiefs?


you're right.. itd have a greater impact because Keith Jackson couldn't hold Witten or Gonzo's jockThat statemnt shows one of two things:

1. You a way to young to remember Jackson

or

2. You are just ignorant.

Sorry, but I've got to agree with Pacopete on this one. Keith Jackson was an awesome, awesome announcer - the way he'd say "Fu-u-u-u-u-u-mb-u-u-u-u-l-l!" was enough to bring tears to any fan's eyes. And I've never seen anyone look better in a yellow sports jacket - but I don't recall that he was all that big or fast. I think Gonzo and Witten are probably much better football players, but I bet they can't announce for crap. Not like ol' Keith Jackson.


Woah Nellie! It looks to me like we have a couple of posters who reaaallllly don't like each other very much.

I have to disagree on the Yellow Jacket. The king was Cossell:



http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/components/Photos/051221/051221_monday_night_hmed_9a.hmedium.jpg

"And another long days journey into night for the gifted one, when he had to surmount the mediocrities around him, but at least on this occasion it was exposed to the whole public the utter paucity of talent of a given sportswriter and a given photographer. As John Keats said in his final letter to Fanny Braun, 'Fare thee well friends, I could never gracefully bow.'"

[BZnDallas]

the one thing i don't see anybody disputing is the fact that Tony G would be an upgrade to our TE position... THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OF THE BALL!!! maybe the reason MMs offense doesn't utilize the TE position is b/c he doesn't have one with Tony Gs abilities... whether or not Tony G would get 100 receptions is pointless... we all know with the WRs on this team, its going to be hard for any of them to get that kind of production...

Exactly. Just how much better would this really make us?? We all know that A-Rod has plenty of weapons. If we made any kind of deal (which I doubt we will), I would think it would be to bolster weaker positions, like CB, DL, or OL.

LOL, sorry kyle, my argument was for bringing in Tony G, IF the price is right... a 4th rounder for sure, and maybe a 3rd since i'm expecting one back from the jets and our own should hopefully be the last pick in the round (at least towards the bottom of the round) ... HAHAHA

i just think a 32 year old tony g opens the middle up more than a donald lee or anything else we have at the position

[The Shadow]

Wesley Walls.

[Kyle.McCarroll]

the one thing i don't see anybody disputing is the fact that Tony G would be an upgrade to our TE position... THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OF THE BALL!!! maybe the reason MMs offense doesn't utilize the TE position is b/c he doesn't have one with Tony Gs abilities... whether or not Tony G would get 100 receptions is pointless... we all know with the WRs on this team, its going to be hard for any of them to get that kind of production...

Exactly. Just how much better would this really make us?? We all know that A-Rod has plenty of weapons. If we made any kind of deal (which I doubt we will), I would think it would be to bolster weaker positions, like CB, DL, or OL.

LOL, sorry kyle, my argument was for bringing in Tony G, IF the price is right... a 4th rounder for sure, and maybe a 3rd since i'm expecting one back from the jets and our own should hopefully be the last pick in the round (at least towards the bottom of the round) ... HAHAHA

i just think a 32 year old tony g opens the middle up more than a donald lee or anything else we have at the position

I understand that. I thought I had bolded the "THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OF THE BALL" part to use in my own argument. My mistake. :oops:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Relentless optimism won't change the facts. The Boys are the class of the NFC.

Yes, right now they are. By the time the season is over it could very well change. Were we any where near as good in week 3 last year as we were week 17? We're pretty banged up right now and we're still a very young team. Once we get guys like Grant, Wells, Sitton, Hall, Jones, Harris, Bigby and Harrell healthy, this team could take a big step foward. In the mean time we're giving guys like Nelson, Jackson, Williams, Blackmon and Rouse more game experience. Couple that with our coaching staff's reputation for being good teachers and I think our upside is very high. I don't think the Cowboys, as good as they are, have as much room for improvement. I am almost more worried about the Eagles and the Giants.

I was actually very impressed with our defense against the boys. Their 3 big plays where the difference in that game and I don't think 2 of them would have happened if Harris and Bigby were healthy. Those 2 alone would have made a difference in that game. I am not trying to blame the loss on injuries, the Cowboys did look like the better team, but I am not going to concede a loss if we meet them again.

Boys don't have room for improvement? :roll:

They have a young RB, young WRs, a stll developing QB, a CB who is returning to the NFL, and they were without starters, and still acclimating players on the team like Thomas.

We are lucky that we didn't get blown out by 30. It easily coulda happened.

Their front 7 is better than our line. Thinking things will get better when we get wells back..and guy who can't handle size, or a rookie....rookies make rookie mistakes is pie in the sky optimism.

Harrell? Really? You are going there? I haven't written him off, but c'mon.

Hall..a fullback. :lol:

Look, half those players could be average or regress or do nothing special. Bigby is just a guy. Hall is just a guy. Jones, at this stage, is trying to a a guy...if he can catch the ball.

The pack may well get better, but the boys are the class of the NFC.

[BZnDallas]

lol... gotcha kyle... ;)

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Wesley Walls.

He was older, and on his last legs.

[BZnDallas]

Relentless optimism won't change the facts. The Boys are the class of the NFC.

Yes, right now they are. By the time the season is over it could very well change. Were we any where near as good in week 3 last year as we were week 17? We're pretty banged up right now and we're still a very young team. Once we get guys like Grant, Wells, Sitton, Hall, Jones, Harris, Bigby and Harrell healthy, this team could take a big step foward. In the mean time we're giving guys like Nelson, Jackson, Williams, Blackmon and Rouse more game experience. Couple that with our coaching staff's reputation for being good teachers and I think our upside is very high. I don't think the Cowboys, as good as they are, have as much room for improvement. I am almost more worried about the Eagles and the Giants.

I was actually very impressed with our defense against the boys. Their 3 big plays where the difference in that game and I don't think 2 of them would have happened if Harris and Bigby were healthy. Those 2 alone would have made a difference in that game. I am not trying to blame the loss on injuries, the Cowboys did look like the better team, but I am not going to concede a loss if we meet them again.

Boys don't have room for improvement? :roll:

They have a young RB, young WRs, a stll developing QB, a CB who is returning to the NFL, and they were without starters, and still acclimating players on the team like Thomas.

The pack may well get better, but the boys are the class of the NFC


the cowbitches are without a doubt the class of the NFC... but they do have an established qb, rb, wr, te, and offensive line... every team out there has room for improvement!! the more the packers play together and jell the more i believe they can close the gap on the cowbitches... doesn't mean we will beat them, if we play them again this year... but i think the packers have more room for improvement and can improve with the remaining games on our schedule

and i won't blame the refs for the loss, but both of their long scoring plays could have been called back... holding on both the felix jones 60 yard rush and again holding on austin miles long reception down the sideline... if the correct calls are made on those two plays its a whole different ball game... i won't say we would have won b/c teams do different things in different circumstances but it would have been a different ball game... just one mans opinion

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Game is won on the line.

Dallas oline killed us. Dallas dline killed us.

[BZnDallas]

Game is won on the line.

Dallas oline killed us. Dallas dline killed us.


:bclap:

couldn't have said it better myself... smartest thing i've read you type yet tyrone ;)

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Game is won on the line.

Dallas oline killed us. Dallas dline killed us.


:bclap:

couldn't have said it better myself... smartest thing i've read you type yet tyrone ;)

You haven't been reading long, have you? :wink:

[pbmax]

Game is won on the line.

Dallas oline killed us. Dallas dline killed us.
Way overstating the case. The two biggest runs were mistakes by backups (Montgomery and Rouse) and of course they can get better at aligning correctly.

Does that mean out D line is better than the Cowboy O Line? No, but the difference is not a 178 yard running game. And we did get pressure ramped up in the second half. Its not enough, but I believe its closer than it appeared.

On offense, we ran blocked well. I keep reading that their D line dominated us. But allowing us better than 4 yards a carry isn't domination, considering we have had our problems with the run game. Pass blocking? Different story, and Rodgers didn't help by running into a sack and holding the ball too long on two others. But handling their blitz can be improved too.

I think these two teams are much closer than that game led us to believe on the lines.

[The Shadow]

Wesley Walls.

He was older, and on his last legs.


A good draft pick for 32 year old legs is not always a good idea.

[cpk1994]

Game is won on the line.

Dallas oline killed us. Dallas dline killed us.


:bclap:

couldn't have said it better myself... smartest thing i've read you type yet tyrone ;)Probably becuase he is detoxing between shipments. :)

[SnakeLH2006]

It is exactly the kind of move Ted would not make.

I disagree. This is the kind of great NFL player TT would want and be willing to pay for.

I could see a 2nd easy.

The TT Kool-Aide is not gonna cut it.

Facts:

1) Gonzalez would be great, but not the K. Jackson difference maker as we were missing the upfield TE threat 10 years ago, and Lee does that just fine.

2) We need a blocking TE to help out with the O-Line in dissarray.

3) CB won't be that bad, but no CB this side of Deion will be able to jump in and learn bump and run and make a difference.

4) DT is the problem. Watch the Cowboy game again. Trade there as those guys can and will make a difference. That's our biggest weakness right now.

5) TT will NEVER give up a 2nd much less 3rd round pick to get a 32 year old TE (he's a great guy and prob. can catch balls yet) on the downside to his career with a massive contract. So be realistic. If he's offering a 5th for Moss how much will he offer for an older TE with limited blocking skills.

6) End Post.

[Fred's Slacks]

Boys don't have room for improvement? :roll:

They have a young RB, young WRs, a stll developing QB, a CB who is returning to the NFL, and they were without starters, and still acclimating players on the team like Thomas.

Sure, they have room for improvement. I never said they didn't. But getting a long time vet acclimated to a new team is a little different then getting young guys up to speed with playing at a new level. The former takes weeks. The later takes years.


We are lucky that we didn't get blown out by 30. It easily coulda happened.

I don't see the mistakes Dallas made that kept them from blowing us out. I think its more likely that if Rouse is in the right position on the Felix Jones run and he does a better job helping Tramon out on the Austin TD, we have a much different game. That's 14 points on 2 plays. What did we lose by again?


Their front 7 is better than our line. Thinking things will get better when we get wells back..and guy who can't handle size, or a rookie....rookies make rookie mistakes is pie in the sky optimism.

I'll agree that their front seven outplayed our Oline and right now you have to say they're better. But we have room for improvement. Regardless of what you think of Wells, do you not think that moving Moll to the bench will improve this line? As for Sitton, there is reason for optimism when the rookie out plays your vets for a starting job. That just might mean the kid is pretty good.


Harrell? Really? You are going there? I haven't written him off, but c'mon.

When you make a comment like that, I have a hard time believing you haven't written him off. Why else would you think he can't help the team at a thin position? Unless you're questioning his talent, there's no reason to beleive he can't help out when healthy.



Hall..a fullback. :lol:

Yes, hes assignment sure and he's a better receiver than Kuhn. He's also one of our best special teams guys. Surprised you didn't know that.



Look, half those players could be average or regress or do nothing special. Bigby is just a guy. Hall is just a guy. Jones, at this stage, is trying to a a guy...if he can catch the ball.

Sure, but even if only half those players improve this team, then we're still alot better than we are now. I guess instead of improving at 10 spots we only improve at 5, still better.

And I don't agree about Bigby. He led the team in picks last year and has played very well going back to the end of last season. Did Seattle think he was just a guy after our playoff game last year? Oh yeah and its only his second season as a starter.


The pack may well get better, but the boys are the class of the NFC.

Tyrone, I didn't say they weren't the class of the NFC. They are, but IMHO our team has more places they can expect improvement from as the season moves on. Is it enough to make us better? Nobody knows that for sure but I am not ready to concede a loss if we meet again.

People keep talking about how we were dominated but I see the 3 big offensive plays as the difference in the game. 2 of those plays were directly related to our inexperienced personnel. To think that we can't do better if given a second chance is just being pessimistic. I think I am just being realistic.

[Fred's Slacks]

Sorry I got a little off topic. I get it. Dallas is better, but I don't think they are in a league of their own.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Wesley Walls.

He was older, and on his last legs.


A good draft pick for 32 year old legs is not always a good idea.

Correct. But, sometimes it is. Gonzo has a good 3-4 years left.

Check out the highlights of today's game. He still is great.