The Official 1st Presidential Debate Thread

[LL2]

Why not? We have official threads for everything else. We all know Obama is going to win, as he is the eloquent one. :roll:

[MJZiggy]

Is McCain gonna show up? Why didn't they just change venue to DC?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Thought this was the bye week for his campaign.

[Joemailman]

Why bother watching? It's already over.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/40651/thumbs/r-AWK-huge.jpg

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Is McCain gonna show up? Why didn't they just change venue to DC?

You can't just change venues at the last minute. You got to get a venue, word out, press there, cameras, etc.

Oxford has been planning this for a year. I think i heard it cost them 5 mill.

[Kiwon]

Why bother watching? It's already over.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/40651/thumbs/r-AWK-huge.jpg

Just copied from the Huffington Post or created by and copied from the Huffington Post?

In true Chinese state run media fashion (cf. See yesterday's reporting on a successful rocket launch BEFORE it left the ground), we already know the MSM's verdict: Obama wins, McCain loses badly.

Unfair and unbalanced is the new standard.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

^^^
Already making excuses. What a surprise.

[Kiwon]

Is McCain gonna show up? Why didn't they just change venue to DC?

You can't just change venues at the last minute. You got to get a venue, word out, press there, cameras, etc.

Oxford has been planning this for a year. I think i heard it cost them 5 mill.

Yeah, Ole Miss better raise tuition rates to recoup their expenses. Higher education... :roll:

What a bunch of elitist dopes! They're praying that maybe the Northeast libs will suspend their ridicule for one day and say something positive about the South.

But I hear the joke coming, "How many rednecks does it take to put on a Presidential debate?"

[MJZiggy]

Is McCain gonna show up? Why didn't they just change venue to DC?

You can't just change venues at the last minute. You got to get a venue, word out, press there, cameras, etc.

Oxford has been planning this for a year. I think i heard it cost them 5 mill.

Details. All they REALLY need is one camera and a feed. (and 2 candidates.)

[Kiwon]

^^^

You have three eyes?

[Joemailman]

Why bother watching? It's already over.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/40651/thumbs/r-AWK-huge.jpg

Just copied from the Huffington Post or created by and copied from the Huffington Post?

In true Chinese state run media fashion (cf. See yesterday's reporting on a successful rocket launch BEFORE it left the ground), we already know the MSM's verdict: Obama wins, McCain loses badly.

Unfair and unbalanced is the new standard.

It ran as an internet ad this morning on the Wall Street Journal website.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_wins_debate.html

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Is McCain gonna show up? Why didn't they just change venue to DC?

You can't just change venues at the last minute. You got to get a venue, word out, press there, cameras, etc.

Oxford has been planning this for a year. I think i heard it cost them 5 mill.

Details. All they REALLY need is one camera and a feed. (and 2 candidates.)

And reporters, and people to fill the seats. And, proper security.

It ain't that simple.

[MJZiggy]

Is McCain gonna show up? Why didn't they just change venue to DC?

You can't just change venues at the last minute. You got to get a venue, word out, press there, cameras, etc.

Oxford has been planning this for a year. I think i heard it cost them 5 mill.

Details. All they REALLY need is one camera and a feed. (and 2 candidates.)

And reporters, and people to fill the seats. And, proper security.

It ain't that simple.

Petty details. What are the reporters REALLY gonna do (besides, we have a plethora of them here) and who needs people to fill the seats. As far as I'm concerned, you need 2 guys, a moderator, a microphone and a camera. It's a debate, not the grammys.

[HowardRoark]

"Cherish, therefore, the spirit of our people, and keep alive their attention. Do not be too severe upon their errors, but reclaim them by enlightening them. If once they become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress, and Assemblies, Judges, and Governors, shall all become wolves"

Thomas Jefferson

[Kiwon]

Is McCain gonna show up? Why didn't they just change venue to DC?

You can't just change venues at the last minute. You got to get a venue, word out, press there, cameras, etc.

Oxford has been planning this for a year. I think i heard it cost them 5 mill.

Details. All they REALLY need is one camera and a feed. (and 2 candidates.)

MJZ, they have to show the rest of academia that progressives in the heart of the racist South have triumphed in their educational tolerance campaign to the point that they can host a debate featuring the first serious "Black" presidential candidate.

There's a lot of federal and private foundation and grant money to be had.

Of course, spending $5.5 million for this event is over the top. :roll:

[LL2]

It's good Jim Lehrer is the moderater...he comes across and fair and balanced

[Freak Out]

It's good Jim Lehrer is the moderater...he comes across and fair and balanced

He is.

[HowardRoark]

McCain is doing a lot better than I thought he would.

[GrnBay007]

I just tuned in. Have they discussed the economy yet?

[MJZiggy]

Yes. They're gonna get that fixed.

[hoosier]

Jim Lehrer is ancient and tired and needs to be replaced. McCain looks ancient and the straight talk express is now a local.

[falco]

come on will no one unleash some witty quote

[MJZiggy]

Jim Lehrer is ancient and tired and needs to be replaced. McCain looks ancient and the straight talk express is now a local.

I feel like I'm being talked down to. :?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Jim Lehrer is ancient and tired and needs to be replaced. McCain looks ancient and the straight talk express is now a local.

ya, we need somebody fresh and shiny like Barack Obama. And when is Keith Olbermann going host one of these things?

[hoosier]

Jim Lehrer is ancient and tired and needs to be replaced. McCain looks ancient and the straight talk express is now a local.

I feel like I'm being talked down to. :?

I wonder if that's because there's no visible audience. It leaves the candidates unsure of whether to respond to Lehrer, their rival or the TV camera.

[hoosier]

Jim Lehrer is ancient and tired and needs to be replaced. McCain looks ancient and the straight talk express is now a local.

ya, we need somebody fresh and shiny like Barack Obama. And when is Keith Olbermann going host one of these things?

You think Lehrer is doing a good job???

[BallHawk]

Thoughts.....

McCain is a much better debater than I thought he would be.

Lehrer wasn't that good as a moderator. In the beginning he was trying to force Obama and McCain to get going with each other. Like getting two teenagers together and forcing them to dance with each other. Doesn't work.

CNN's gadgets and polling are pointless.

Obama looked good on foreign policy tonight.

Both came across weak on the economy.

[Harlan Huckleby]

sure, Lehrer did an excellent job. what more would you want?

[hoosier]

Thoughts.....

McCain is a much better debater than I thought he would be.

Lehrer wasn't that good as a moderator. In the beginning he was trying to force Obama and McCain to get going with each other. Like getting two teenagers together and forcing them to dance with each other. Doesn't work.

CNN's gadgets and polling are pointless.

Obama looked good on foreign policy tonight.

Both came across weak on the economy.

Except for a few moments I thought McCain was terrible. He was slow to respond, at times struggled to stay on task and be coherent. He repeated the same lines over and over ("What Senator Obama doesn't understand..."). Obama, I thought, was far clearer and more convincing on economic reform, and managed to battle McCain to a draw on foreign policy thanks to "Afghanistan."

[hoosier]

sure, Lehrer did an excellent job. what more would you want?

Uh, what more wouldn't you want? :lol:

[Harlan Huckleby]

My favorite moment in the debate was when Lehrer asked Obama what programs or goals he would be compelled to sacrifice because of the financial crisis.

Obama launched into a 5-minute Christmas list of goodies for the voters! :lol: health care for all, new energy programs, a chicken in every pot.....

I was surprised that McCain didn't embarass Obama on it. McCain missed a lot of opportunities to pierce Barry, I guess his strategy was to emphasize his own agenda.

(McCain's own answer on the belt-tightening questioning was more spending cuts, which is at least logically consistent. Most experts I have heard think the bailout will make major spending on any new program impossible.)

[MJZiggy]

So it wasn't just me then. "I've been friends with Dr. Kissinger for 35 years and if he could see this..."

[BallHawk]

Except for a few moments I thought McCain was terrible

You have to understand, my standards were EXTREMELY low. :lol:

[texaspackerbacker]

I AM VERY VERY PLEASED WITH THE WAY THINGS WENT!

[BallHawk]

I AM VERY VERY PLEASED WITH THE WAY THINGS WENT!

So you're not gonna change your vote to Obama? :shock:

[Harlan Huckleby]

sure, Lehrer did an excellent job. what more would you want?

Uh, what more wouldn't you want? :lol:

I bet Lehrer has had more organsms in 2008 than you. He still keeps a very heavy schedule as an author.

Lehrer is deceptively sharp, very easy to underestimate. Ya, he can be a little avuncular, and he doesn't press hard, but he asks good questions as an interviewer, he draws out the information, lets people decide for themselves without putting the interviewee on the defensive.

[HowardRoark]

sure, Lehrer did an excellent job. what more would you want?

Uh, what more wouldn't you want? :lol:

I heard the candidates talk a lot and didn't notice the moderator......isn't that the way it's suppose to be? Kind of like a ref?

What more would you want?

[texaspackerbacker]

I thought Lehrer did pretty well. As a commentator for PBS, a very left-leaning organization, I would not have expected him to be unbiased. However, he took his job seriously, and did not favor Obama.

[hoosier]

I bet Lehrer has had more organisms in 2008 than you. He still keeps a very heavy schedule as an author.

I beg your pardon, but what makes you think you have any IDEA how many organisms Lehrer or I have? Make light of it if you will, but the human intestine is the last great frontier of science. You, sir, simply have no idea....


Deciphering the "Bugs" in Human Intestines
for National Geographic News

March 28, 2003

The human intestine is a swirling and churning environment that is host to microbial communities as diverse as those found in the Amazon rain forest. And like the regions beneath the soils that carpet the rain forest floor, much of what lies within the gut remains unexplored.

[Partial]

I thought McCain was much better. Obama is terrible without a teleprompter. He was borderline inchorent at the beginning with all his stuttering.

McCain has way more experience and it showed tonight.

[GrnBay007]

Both came across weak on the economy.

And that is really SAD!

[Joemailman]

Although I don't see this debate as being a game changer, I thought McCain did a pretty good job of keeping Obama on the defensive. However, it remains to be seen if McCain's dismissive attitude toward Obama will help him or hurt him. At any rate, I expect Obama to be more aggressive next time.

[HowardRoark]

Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized. He says: "Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."

Posted by Stephen F. Hayes on September 26, 2008 10:55 PM Weekly Standard

[Freak Out]

Landru guide us!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/STArchons.jpg

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/40/LandruProjection.jpg

[pacfan]

If I were to score this, I would have given the debate to McCain, but it wouldn't be on merit. Obama has more to lose in these dabates than McCain has to gain. Obama thrives in these academic setings where he can pontificate on his positions without interruption. He loses some of his composure with the quicker back-n-forth and the sniping usually found in these debates. It happened tonight with Obama, while McCain didn't choke like I thought he would.

McCain came across to me as very old and stiff. The "Obama doesn't understand" bit will work for the republican base, it will infuriate the left, but I'm not sure it will win the middle. Does McCain need to solidfy his base with the Republicans? I am also dissapointed but not surprised to see him switching to a more conservative position. His renewable energy kick might be tomorrow's soundbite. I thought all of arizona was against solar energy and McCain's been there long enough with no real change. I could be wrong, of course, my information on this issue is second hand from some very liberal Arizona folks.

I also am very unimpressed with Palin as the VP choice. To me she is a lightweight who may need more VP OJT than Obama's OJT as president should he win in November. I was really hoping that Huckabee would have been McCain's VP. McCain, with Huckabee as the VP, might have been able to stay more moderate while projecting a more beleivable maverick role with Huckabee bringing over the conservatives. Now it seems he has to carry the ticket. Once, or maybe if, the dems take the kids gloves off with Palin she could become a liability. I hope they are able to get her ready for the VP debate with Biden because he might just light her ass up.

[TheCheese]

If I were to score this, I would have given the debate to McCain, but it wouldn't be on merit. Obama has more to lose in these dabates than McCain has to gain. Obama thrives in these academic setings where he can pontificate on his positions without interruption. He loses some of his composure with the quicker back-n-forth and the sniping usually found in these debates. It happened tonight with Obama, while McCain didn't choke like I thought he would.

McCain came across to me as very old and stiff. The "Obama doesn't understand" bit will work for the republican base, it will infuriate the left, but I'm not sure it will win the middle. Does McCain need to solidfy his base with the Republicans? I am also dissapointed but not surprised to see him switching to a more conservative position. His renewable energy kick might be tomorrow's soundbite. I thought all of arizona was against solar energy and McCain's been there long enough with no real change. I could be wrong, of course, my information on this issue is second hand from some very liberal Arizona folks.

I also am very unimpressed with Palin as the VP choice. To me she is a lightweight who may need more VP OJT than Obama's OJT as president should he win in November. I was really hoping that Huckabee would have been McCain's VP. McCain, with Huckabee as the VP, might have been able to stay more moderate while projecting a more beleivable maverick role with Huckabee bringing over the conservatives. Now it seems he has to carry the ticket. Once, or maybe if, the dems take the kids gloves off with Palin she could become a liability. I hope they are able to get her ready for the VP debate with Biden because he might just light her ass up.

Just like Cheney lit Edwards ass up, but unfortunately it did not impact the poles what so ever. However that could change because Palin is going to draw more media attention to the VP debates than the presidential debates. We'll see.

[Kiwon]

Although I don't see this debate as being a game changer, I thought McCain did a pretty good job of keeping Obama on the defensive. However, it remains to be seen if McCain's dismissive attitude toward Obama will help him or hurt him. At any rate, I expect Obama to be more aggressive next time.

Obama probably will be elected POTUS one day, but even if I liked him I really don't think he's ready. He just turned 47 last month. He could be in and out of the White House by age 56. He then probably would have another 20 years of public service left to give.

There is a slim chance that somehow he might turn out to be an effective leader despite his thin resume, but there is little doubt that he would be an even better leader with more experience in Congress.

The DNC is backing moderate democrats into a corner with the insinuations about racism, etc., if you don't vote for Obama. What about those people who honestly feel that he is being rushed to the national stage before he's ready?

Obama and company hurt themselves badly by failing to choose Hillary as VP. That one move would have appealed to enough moderates and independents, not to mention women, and secured this election for a first-term senator.

[Kiwon]

Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized. He says: "Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."

Posted by Stephen F. Hayes on September 26, 2008 10:55 PM Weekly Standard

Obama stumbled badly here.

Now watch the MSM jump to his defense.

[LL2]

They were saying on CNN that historically the debates historically do not affect the voting patterns, if at all it's very slight. The only time the debates made a real difference was when Reagan ran for president the 1st time.

[packinpatland]

What a shame he (McCain) can't get his facts straight.

According to the National Archives, late on the afternoon of June 5, 1944,
Eisenhower scribbled a note intended for release accepting responsibility for
the decision to launch the invasion and taking full blame in the event the
effort to create a beachhead on the Normandy coast failed.

In the letter, Eisenhower takes responsibility but makes no mention of
resignation

[mraynrand]

I was really hoping that Huckabee would have been McCain's VP.

Not a chance. It would have flamed out big time - vote for your Grampa and his Pastor - and get a free bar of Lava soap.

[LL2]

I was really hoping that Huckabee would have been McCain's VP.

Not a chance. It would have flamed out big time - vote for your Grampa and his Pastor - and get a free bar of Lava soap.

Huckabee is a good man, but I agree. McCain wouldn't have had a chance with him on the ticket. He would be 15 points behind Obama instead of 3 or 4 points behind.

[texaspackerbacker]

Pacfan, welcome. This is the first I've seen of your posts in here.

I think the "Senator Obama doesn't seem to understand ......" comments were DESIGNED to infuriate the left. I do think, however, that they were effective with modrate and undecided voters, as well as the base--as he went on from there to point out exactly HOW Obama's thinking was flawed. BTW, I think one of the leftists it got to was obama himself, who seemed to have a consistently pissed off look on his face--the kind of thing commentators, at least, say turns off voters.

One thing I especially liked about McCain's debate tactics was that he would be mild, positive, and general in his first response to questions. Then, in the follow up, he would hit Obama with the haymakers--often a barrage of them--when Obama had less time to respond. That's the kind of sneakiness you'd expect the young guy to pull on the oldtimer instead of vice versa.

GB007, how would you define a "strong" response on the economy? What would you have liked either or both to have said?

[packinpatland]

"One thing I especially liked about McCain's debate tactics was that he would be mild, positive, and general in his first response to questions. Then, in the follow up, he would hit Obama with the haymakers--often a barrage of them--when Obama had less time to respond. That's the kind of sneakiness you'd expect the young guy to pull on the oldtimer instead of vice versa. "

Yup........that surely was impressive.
So were the stories with tiny violins playing in the background........

[BallHawk]

They were saying on CNN that historically the debates historically do not affect the voting patterns, if at all it's very slight. The only time the debates made a real difference was when Reagan ran for president the 1st time.

I would say that the debates made a difference in the Election of 1960 (Kennedy v. Nixon.) Kennedy was behind before the first debate and then jumped out ahead after the first debate a lot of that due to Nixon looking physically bad. After that Kennedy never looked back.

[Tarlam!]

German Press is calling it a "draw".

I think they are pretty neutral, although they have been describing Barry in messianic ways.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Both came across weak on the economy.

And that is really SAD!

The Democrats and Republicans are in the heat of an excrutiatingly sensitive negotiation, huge polititical and financial consequences. The candidates will ultimately both have to sign-off on the final deal to make it work. It is TOTALLY ridiculous and inappropriate to have an open debate on the negotiation at this moment.

John McCain has been harshly criticized for his suggestion that the debate be postponed until a deal is struck. THIS WAS NOT A POLITICAL STUNT, IT WAS A WISE AND SENSIBLE SUGGESTION. Obama and his media minions all said McCain was playing politics, but they were the ones scoring political points.

Jim Leherer foolishly opened the debate by trying to get the candidates to commit to the version of the plan that has been publically reported. Of course neither would commit. Both just gave their canned stump speeches about economic policy that they have been reciting for months.

McCain came the closest to saying anything substantive on economics last night, he tipped his hand as to the approach he favors. He said that the bailout should be in the form of loans, rather than totally turning control over to the government.

[falco]

the debate really sucked IMHO

neither candidate swayed me either way - mccain looked old and obama prattled on ... he needs to get away from that whole john kerry "nuanced" thing because it doesn't sell to the public

disclaimer - i only watch parts, so i'm basing this on what i saw

[texaspackerbacker]

They were saying on CNN that historically the debates historically do not affect the voting patterns, if at all it's very slight. The only time the debates made a real difference was when Reagan ran for president the 1st time.

I would say that the debates made a difference in the Election of 1960 (Kennedy v. Nixon.) Kennedy was behind before the first debate and then jumped out ahead after the first debate a lot of that due to Nixon looking physically bad. After that Kennedy never looked back.

CNN is in denial.

The debates were major factors in both 2000 and 2004 when people had a chance to compare the extreme leftist crap spewed by Gore and Kerry, compared with the normalcy, decency, and pro-American agenda of Bush.

While I think McCain clearly outperformed Obama in the debate, Obama was playing "defense", and thus, not blown out completely. Wait 'til the next one when Obama starts exuding arrogance and elitism as he puts his agenda of social programs on display for America. That was Gore and Kerry's downfall--ASSUMING that the people would buy (literally) the left wing garbage. That same assumption will bite Obama in the ass as it did Gore and Kerry.

The worries: That maybe Obama will adopt the Bill Clinton model of NOT showing his true colors (no pun intended) until after the election. Also, that maybe McCain will not do enough to draw a distinction between Obama's crap and McCain's normalcy and restraint on spending.

[Harlan Huckleby]

What a shame he (McCain) can't get his facts straight.

According to the National Archives, late on the afternoon of June 5, 1944,
Eisenhower scribbled a note intended for release accepting responsibility for
the decision to launch the invasion and taking full blame in the event the
effort to create a beachhead on the Normandy coast failed.

In the letter, Eisenhower takes responsibility but makes no mention of
resignation

Joe Biden said yesterday that FDR went on TV in 1929 to calm the nation after the stock market crash.

The stock market crashed in 1932, Herbert Hoover was president, and TV had not been invented yet.

Who cares about these gaffs?

It is only the small-minded, petty people who get excited about McCain conflating "takes full blame" with "resigns". It probably has been repeated that he offered to resign in popular mythology.

[Freak Out]

Mac proved he is unfit to lead...before the debate.

[falco]

CNN is in denial.

The debates were major factors in both 2000 and 2004 when people had a chance to compare the extreme leftist crap spewed by Gore and Kerry, compared with the normalcy, decency, and pro-American agenda of Bush.

While I think McCain clearly outperformed Obama in the debate, Obama was playing "defense", and thus, not blown out completely. Wait 'til the next one when Obama starts exuding arrogance and elitism as he puts his agenda of social programs on display for America. That was Gore and Kerry's downfall--ASSUMING that the people would buy (literally) the left wing garbage. That same assumption will bite Obama in the ass as it did Gore and Kerry.

The worries: That maybe Obama will adopt the Bill Clinton model of NOT showing his true colors (no pun intended) until after the election. Also, that maybe McCain will not do enough to draw a distinction between Obama's crap and McCain's normalcy and restraint on spending.

tex, I agree with you that it will be important to obama not to come off as elitist - that was definitely john kerry's biggest downfall. however, he's not running against bush - mccain doesn't have that same average joe factor. however, I think mccain wins everytime he plays up the POW/veteran card, which is a shame because I don't think Kerry got the kudos he deserved for that.

i'm looking forward to the rest of the debates, especially VP. neither candidate is easy to get excited about

[packinpatland]

What a shame he (McCain) can't get his facts straight.

According to the National Archives, late on the afternoon of June 5, 1944,
Eisenhower scribbled a note intended for release accepting responsibility for
the decision to launch the invasion and taking full blame in the event the
effort to create a beachhead on the Normandy coast failed.

In the letter, Eisenhower takes responsibility but makes no mention of
resignation

Joe Biden said yesterday that FDR went on TV in 1929 to calm the nation after the stock market crash.

The stock market crashed in 1932, Herbert Hoover was president, and TV had not been invented yet.

Who cares about these gaffs?

It is only the small-minded, petty people who get excited about McCain conflating "takes full blame" with "resigns". It probably has been repeated that he offered to resign in popular mythology.


Eisenhower (June 5, 1944)
"Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satsifactory foothold and I have withdrawn the tropps. My decision to attack at this time and place was based on the best information available. The troops, the air and the Navy did all that bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone"

No mention of quitting the Army, or his command.

Where Biden simply got his history wrong. McCain tried to give us a false interpretation.

[Harlan Huckleby]

BTW, how do you know that statement by Eisenhower is what McCain was referring to?

You dismiss Biden's gaff as a harmless mistake, but McCain is treacherous.

[SkinBasket]

Where Biden simply got his history wrong. McCain tried to give us a false interpretation.

The deep end is now long long gone.

[GrnBay007]

GB007, how would you define a "strong" response on the economy? What would you have liked either or both to have said?

I don't know....maybe just a tiny bit of optimism. :?:

[The Shadow]

It was almost startling to see how much more presidential McCain looked than Barry.
Master vs Grasshopper.

[BallHawk]

It was almost startling to see how much more presidential McCain looked than Barry.
Master vs Grasshopper.

You think the guy that looked down all the time and refused to look at his opponent is presidential?

Great. I can't wait 'til he has to be diplomatic with foreign leaders. That is if he even knows what diplomacy is. :roll:

[retailguy]

the debate really sucked IMHO

neither candidate swayed me either way - mccain looked old and obama prattled on ... he needs to get away from that whole john kerry "nuanced" thing because it doesn't sell to the public

disclaimer - i only watch parts, so i'm basing this on what i saw

I think you nailed it Falco. I watched the entire debate, and came away with the same opinion I went into it with.

If you read this entire thread, not one persons mind was changed or swayed.

Non-event.

[retailguy]

Where Biden simply got his history wrong. McCain tried to give us a false interpretation.

:roll:

If you can't read this, PIP and see your bias, then I feel badly for you.

If I were to rephrase and say biden tried to give false interpretation and mccain just got his history wrong, what would be the difference? Keep looking for "sinister intent"...

Meanwhile, I believe Joe Biden. Yes, I do. Hillary would have been a much better choice. :wink:

[packinpatland]

BTW, how do you know that statement by Eisenhower is what McCain was referring to?

You dismiss Biden's gaff as a harmless mistake, but McCain is treacherous.

The quote I took directly from Eisenhower's letter.......not a statement......
And I didn't use the word 'treacherous'.......I said 'false interpretation'.

According to the National Archives, late on the afternoon of June 5, 1944,
Eisenhower scribbled a note intended for release accepting responsibility for
the decision to launch the invasion and taking full blame in the event the
effort to create a beachhead on the Normandy coast failed.

In the letter, Eisenhower takes responsibility but makes no mention of
resignation

[HowardRoark]

Eisenhower (June 5, 1944)
"Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satsifactory foothold and I have withdrawn the tropps. My decision to attack at this time and place was based on the best information available. The troops, the air and the Navy did all that bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone"

No mention of quitting the Army, or his command.

Where Biden simply got his history wrong. McCain tried to give us a false interpretation.

OK, you win. McCain told a story about how Eisenhower would take the blame for failure and quit.....he really only would take all the blame publicly.

But that really misses the entire point of what John mcCain was saying last night, right? You know the POINT he was trying to make.

But yes, in a parsing contest, you win.

As long as we are parsing, exactly how well does Barack know a known terrorist? Are they just neighbors, or do they know each other a little better? Or is it maybe even more thatn a little better.

I will let you win the little battle of "Eisenhower Letters".......I just don't think that is a strategy (or tactic) that you Lefties want to pursue.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I watched the debate from start to finish.

Obama came across better on the economy. Mac failed to impress on how terrible things are, which was crucial in order to justify his suspending the campaign and returning to D.C. Otherwise it is just a political stunt.

Mac came across better on foreign policy, but not by much.

I have to agree with Krauthammer. The election is a referendum on Obama, and therefore a tie in the debate goes to Obama.

Independents clearly weren't won by Mac at this debate.

Since this debate was supposed to be about Foreign policy...Mac shoulda won convincingly, but preempting that with the economy did him no favors.

And, hectoring Obama about strategy vs. tactics..didn't come off well. Since anybody with a brain realizes that the surge was tactic designed to bring about a strategy of the mandated Iraq free elections, etc...that clearly haven't been met.

I really wish Obama woulda continued when the talk was of nuke power and he said arizona and was cut off. I think that he was going to ask about Mac having waste in the state. That woulda been great.

As for meat and potatoes of the debate...i would agree...we need more specifics. But, neither is gonna do that witht the economy and the bill still being written. And, nobody is gonna tell you what they are gonna cut. That is political suicide.

BTW, if things went so well..why was Dick Morris screeching that the Repubs nominated the wrong guy. :lol:

[Partial]

I am perplexed as to how one can think Obama even sounded decent last night. McCain definitely spoke better, and Obama sounded like he made it through all those great schools as a result of meeting quotas. He sounded worse than Bushie up there with all his stuttering and changing statements mid-sentence.

[Cheesehead Craig]

They were saying on CNN that historically the debates historically do not affect the voting patterns, if at all it's very slight. The only time the debates made a real difference was when Reagan ran for president the 1st time.

I would say that the debates made a difference in the Election of 1960 (Kennedy v. Nixon.) Kennedy was behind before the first debate and then jumped out ahead after the first debate a lot of that due to Nixon looking physically bad. After that Kennedy never looked back.

Absolutely. The debates essentially made Kennedy president.

[falco]

They were saying on CNN that historically the debates historically do not affect the voting patterns, if at all it's very slight. The only time the debates made a real difference was when Reagan ran for president the 1st time.

I would say that the debates made a difference in the Election of 1960 (Kennedy v. Nixon.) Kennedy was behind before the first debate and then jumped out ahead after the first debate a lot of that due to Nixon looking physically bad. After that Kennedy never looked back.

Absolutely. The debates essentially made Kennedy president.

you mean it wasn't the votes his dad bought him?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I am perplexed

QFT

[hoosier]

Independents clearly weren't won by Mac at this debate.

That's an understatement, Ty. According to a CBS poll done just after the debate, almost 50% of uncommitted voters reported that their opinion of Obama was raised by the debate. Only 30% of those polled said their opinion of McCain got better. 66% of uncommitted voters think Obama would make the right decisions about the economy. 44% think McCain would make good decisions.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2008/09/the_debate_an_edge_for_obama.html?hpid=opinionsbox 1

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Independents clearly weren't won by Mac at this debate.

That's an understatement, Ty. According to a CBS poll done just after the debate, almost 50% of uncommitted voters reported that their opinion of Obama was raised by the debate. Only 30% of those polled said their opinion of McCain got better. 66% of uncommitted voters think Obama would make the right decisions about the economy. 44% think McCain would make good decisions.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2008/09/the_debate_an_edge_for_obama.html?hpid=opinionsbox 1

ty was trying to be kind. The conservs are a bit shellshocked after last night's performance.

Interesting note: Men favored Mac, but Obama killed with chicks. and, women are slower to decide who to vote for.....the tide is turning towards obama with the women.

[digitaldean]

It didn't really sway my opinion on my choice. I thought Obama brought up half-truths (like the Kissinger comment) that didn't help his cause.

I'd say that McCain nailed the foreign policy section. The economic one, not so much. McCain did not have a comeback about taxation of health benefits. (if that policy is true, he just shot himself in the foot with a lot of undecideds).

BOTH were guilty of dancing around anything resembling a substantive answer regarding for many of the questions.

Right now, I'd have to say Obama would have to make a huge gaffe to lose this race. Then again, Biden still has to debate so we could have a couple doozy foot in mouth incidents coming up.

[texaspackerbacker]

GB007, how would you define a "strong" response on the economy? What would you have liked either or both to have said?

I don't know....maybe just a tiny bit of optimism. :?:

You don't get enough optimism listening to me?

I'm saying the whole mess is contrived for some purpose. I had been thinking it was financial--somebody cleaning up big time from the "bail out" money. Now, I'm beginning to lean toward a political motivation--helping Obama by diverting from the issues he is so rotten on--basically everything else--security from terrorism, defense, foreign policy, various social issue, etc.--not that Obama is any great shakes on the economy either, but on the economy, he is better able to befuddle people with bullshit.

Actually, I thought they BOTH sounded pretty optimistic that the "bail out" package would get passed. You didn't?

[texaspackerbacker]

They were saying on CNN that historically the debates historically do not affect the voting patterns, if at all it's very slight. The only time the debates made a real difference was when Reagan ran for president the 1st time.

I would say that the debates made a difference in the Election of 1960 (Kennedy v. Nixon.) Kennedy was behind before the first debate and then jumped out ahead after the first debate a lot of that due to Nixon looking physically bad. After that Kennedy never looked back.

Absolutely. The debates essentially made Kennedy president.

Actually, it was Mayor Daley's army of dead Democrats that made the difference in Illinois and swung it to Kennedy.

Falco, you seem to be on the right side more often than the wrong one in this forum. I have to stenuously disagree with your comment about Kerry in Vietnam, though. The SwiftBoaters were RIGHT! Kerry couldn't even counter the truth of what they said--that rather than being a hero, he was a coward who wrote false paperwork himself to get three Purple Hearts in order to get out of combat--so he could come home and slander the courageous troops still there. Kerry isn't fit to lick shit off McCain's boots. And that's completely aside from the fact that Kerry is wrong on all the issues.

[falco]

They were saying on CNN that historically the debates historically do not affect the voting patterns, if at all it's very slight. The only time the debates made a real difference was when Reagan ran for president the 1st time.

I would say that the debates made a difference in the Election of 1960 (Kennedy v. Nixon.) Kennedy was behind before the first debate and then jumped out ahead after the first debate a lot of that due to Nixon looking physically bad. After that Kennedy never looked back.

Absolutely. The debates essentially made Kennedy president.

Actually, it was Mayor Daley's army of dead Democrats that made the difference in Illinois and swung it to Kennedy.

Falco, you seem to be on the right side more often than the wrong one in this forum. I have to stenuously disagree with your comment about Kerry in Vietnam, though. The SwiftBoaters were RIGHT! Kerry couldn't even counter the truth of what they said--that rather than being a hero, he was a coward who wrote false paperwork himself to get three Purple Hearts in order to get out of combat--so he could come home and slander the courageous troops still there. Kerry isn't fit to lick shit off McCain's boots. And that's completely aside from the fact that Kerry is wrong on all the issues.

I know I'm doing something wrong if TPB agrees with me... :lol:

far be it from me to disparage any vietnam vet (or any other war). i'll leave that to others.

[Harlan Huckleby]

BTW, how do you know that statement by Eisenhower is what McCain was referring to?

You dismiss Biden's gaff as a harmless mistake, but McCain is treacherous.

The quote I took directly from Eisenhower's letter.......not a statement......
And I didn't use the word 'treacherous'.......I said 'false interpretation'.

According to the National Archives, late on the afternoon of June 5, 1944,
Eisenhower scribbled a note intended for release accepting responsibility for
the decision to launch the invasion and taking full blame in the event the
effort to create a beachhead on the Normandy coast failed.

In the letter, Eisenhower takes responsibility but makes no mention of
resignation

Ya, I accept that Eisenhower said in his note that he would "take full responsibility", rather than specifically "resign." But McCain is apparently under the impression that Eisenhower meant to resign as a way of taking responsibility.

Its unlikely that McCain pulled this interpretation out of thin air, he heard it somewhere. It's possible that it is a popular misconception that has been passed down. But equally likely, this famous incident was discussed by Eisenhower in his memoirs, or in interviews, and he explained that he intended to resign as a way of taking responsibility if the invasion failed.

Regardless of which one of these explanations is correct, your attacking McCain's character over this statement is over-the-top. Your emotional bias is unusually strong, you regularly get pitch black dark about politicians (and coaches) you dislike, and you shine a happy, sunny light on the good guys. Everybody does this to a certain extent.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I refuse to watch any more debates, or discuss politics. I'm taking my football and going home.

The media bias in favor of Obama is a tidal wave. I've watch a lot of elections, Dems usually get an advantage, but I've never seen anything like this year. And don't listen to Tex, it matters tremendously. First they worked on Hillary, now McCain is getting the treatment.

Somebody wake me if Reverend WRight gets back into the spotlight, at least that is entertainment.

I accept PResident Obama as my overlord. Now just leave me the fuck alone.

[texaspackerbacker]

I refuse to watch any more debates, or discuss politics. I'm taking my football and going home.

The media bias in favor of Obama is a tidal wave. I've watch a lot of elections, Dems usually get an advantage, but I've never seen anything like this year. And don't listen to Tex, it matters tremendously. First they worked on Hillary, now McCain is getting the treatment.

Somebody wake me if Reverend WRight gets back into the spotlight, at least that is entertainment.

I accept PResident Obama as my overlord. Now just leave me the fuck alone.

What "don't listen to Tex"? I never said media bias for Obama didn't make any difference. In the end, though, I think the good sense of the people will overcome it, just like in 2000 and 2004.

[bobblehead]

What a shame he (McCain) can't get his facts straight.

According to the National Archives, late on the afternoon of June 5, 1944,
Eisenhower scribbled a note intended for release accepting responsibility for
the decision to launch the invasion and taking full blame in the event the
effort to create a beachhead on the Normandy coast failed.

In the letter, Eisenhower takes responsibility but makes no mention of
resignation

Joe Biden said yesterday that FDR went on TV in 1929 to calm the nation after the stock market crash.

The stock market crashed in 1932, Herbert Hoover was president, and TV had not been invented yet.

Who cares about these gaffs?

It is only the small-minded, petty people who get excited about McCain conflating "takes full blame" with "resigns". It probably has been repeated that he offered to resign in popular mythology.

And the animal house guys (media) stood in the back whispering..."don't stop him....he's on a roll".

[bobblehead]

women are slower

Look, I can do the same creative editing the DNC can do with newt gingrich quotes...ty is a sexist!!!

[packinpatland]

"I think the good sense of the people will overcome it, just like in 2000 and 2004."



And here we are today.....The percentages may be up or down a point or two...but they don't look good. Those people with good sense, sense we need a change....McCain voted with Pres. Bush 85% .......some say it was higher.........we do need a change.

Seventy-six percent of Americans now say they disapprove of how Mr. Bush is dealing with the economy — surpassing his administration’s previous high of 74 percent in April and nearing his father’s record high of 80 percent in August 1992.

64 percent of Americans disapprove of the job the president is doing in general.

[bobblehead]

"I think the good sense of the people will overcome it, just like in 2000 and 2004."



And here we are today.....The percentages may be up or down a point or two...but they don't look good. Those people with good sense, sense we need a change....McCain voted with Pres. Bush 85% .......some say it was higher.........we do need a change.

Seventy-six percent of Americans now say they disapprove of how Mr. Bush is dealing with the economy — surpassing his administration’s previous high of 74 percent in April and nearing his father’s record high of 80 percent in August 1992.

64 percent of Americans disapprove of the job the president is doing in general.

About 10% of us realize that repub or dem doesnt' matter much...we need a REAL outsider/reformer. Of that 10% 2% vote third party and 8% don't waste their time. Voting for mccain or obama is like jerking off with sandpaper.

[packinpatland]

"I think the good sense of the people will overcome it, just like in 2000 and 2004."



And here we are today.....The percentages may be up or down a point or two...but they don't look good. Those people with good sense, sense we need a change....McCain voted with Pres. Bush 85% .......some say it was higher.........we do need a change.

Seventy-six percent of Americans now say they disapprove of how Mr. Bush is dealing with the economy — surpassing his administration’s previous high of 74 percent in April and nearing his father’s record high of 80 percent in August 1992.

64 percent of Americans disapprove of the job the president is doing in general.

About 10% of us realize that repub or dem doesnt' matter much...we need a REAL outsider/reformer. Of that 10% 2% vote third party and 8% don't waste their time. Voting for mccain or obama is like jerking off with sandpaper.

As unpleasant as that sounds ^, what's the alternative? Nader? :shock:

[HowardRoark]

Nader? :shock:

That would be like these guys jerking us off...

http://entimg.msn.com/i/gal/JackNicholson/CuckooPF0182352_400.jpg

[Tyrone Bigguns]

women are slower

Look, I can do the same creative editing the DNC can do with newt gingrich quotes...ty is a sexy!!!

I can do the same creative editing like the RNC can do with the Obama tax paln...no matter how many times you say it Bobble...it never gets old.

You had me at hello!

[hoosier]

I refuse to watch any more debates, or discuss politics. I'm taking my football and going home.

The media bias in favor of Obama is a tidal wave. I've watch a lot of elections, Dems usually get an advantage, but I've never seen anything like this year. And don't listen to Tex, it matters tremendously. First they worked on Hillary, now McCain is getting the treatment.

Somebody wake me if Reverend WRight gets back into the spotlight, at least that is entertainment.

I accept PResident Obama as my overlord. Now just leave me the fuck alone.

Wtf are you talking about? You're beginning to sound like a conspiratorial RWN. Did you and Tex switch brains and forget to tell the rest of us? I know you kind of have a thing for Obama--an allergic kind of thing--but what and where is this "tidal wave" you're seeing?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I refuse to watch any more debates, or discuss politics. I'm taking my football and going home.

The media bias in favor of Obama is a tidal wave. I've watch a lot of elections, Dems usually get an advantage, but I've never seen anything like this year. And don't listen to Tex, it matters tremendously. First they worked on Hillary, now McCain is getting the treatment.

Somebody wake me if Reverend WRight gets back into the spotlight, at least that is entertainment.

I accept PResident Obama as my overlord. Now just leave me the fuck alone.

Wtf are you talking about? You're beginning to sound like a conspiratorial RWN. Did you and Tex switch brains and forget to tell the rest of us? I know you kind of have a thing for Obama--an allergic kind of thing--but what and where is this "tidal wave" you're seeing?

Sorry, I no longer discuss the dirty business of politics.

[hoosier]

Sorry, I no longer discuss the dirty business of politics.

What happened? Did Katie Couric show you just how absurd your compromise ticket really is? :lol: