Should have let Grant hold out

[MadtownPacker]

I didnt think he should get paid after less than a seasons performance and now he is showing why. He cant push a pile forward and only is good in space. Dunn who is smaller and much older showed what tough running is about it.

[GBRulz]

yeah but I don't see BJack or Lumpy doing much better....and we'd be bitching at TT for not signing Grant.

[MadtownPacker]

What are you talking about?? Jackson's specialty is running into nothing. He could have match Grant today no problem.

[Joemailman]

I'm glad they signed him, but he shouldn't be getting most of the carries right now. I think he is hurting the team right now, and seems to get worse as the game wears on. Just the opposite of what you want in a close game.

[MadtownPacker]

SO you are glad they signed him but you dont want him on the field? What kind of logic is that??

[wist43]

Not Grant... that might midget of an OL.

This team isn't built properly... just wasting time until they either find a QB, or change philosophies. Neither is coming soon.

2011 at the earliest.

[Joemailman]

SO you are glad they signed him but you dont want him on the field? What kind of logic is that??

I think the injury is hampering him. I don't think he should be the starter just because he signed a big contract.

[Rastak]

SO you are glad they signed him but you dont want him on the field? What kind of logic is that??

I think the injury is hampering him. I don't think he should be the starter just because he signed a big contract.


He said he felt 100%. Could be some macho BS though but it seemed the trsiners agreed.

[Kyle.McCarroll]

SO you are glad they signed him but you dont want him on the field? What kind of logic is that??

I think the injury is hampering him. I don't think he should be the starter just because he signed a big contract.


He said he felt 100%. Could be some macho BS though but it seemed the trsiners agreed.

So that means he just sucks then.

[Rastak]

SO you are glad they signed him but you dont want him on the field? What kind of logic is that??

I think the injury is hampering him. I don't think he should be the starter just because he signed a big contract.


He said he felt 100%. Could be some macho BS though but it seemed the trsiners agreed.

So that means he just sucks then.

Likely a sarcastic comment....

It's a bit more complicated than that..

1) He sucks, which I doubt.
2) OL sucks....maybe.
3) Defense caused it....maybe.
4) Offensive scheme blows....maybe.

[RashanGary]

We are a very, very young team. It sucks. We were too QB dependent on offense and now we find out what happens when we don't have one.



I think Wist is right. We need a stronger OL and a stronger DL.

[Packers4Ever]

yeah but I don't see BJack or Lumpy doing much better....and we'd be bitching at TT for not signing Grant.

And what about fortifying our QB with nothing more than 2 Rooks ! ?? I
understand they're tough to come by much of the time, but come on, they were out there if you took time to do some searching. I felt sorry today for Aaron and Flynn, although Flynn's time on field was short.

WHERE was DD today? Didn't see him on injured list.
Wish I'd counted the drops, must have been a record. :roll:

Bet the plane ride home was quiet.

[GrnBay007]

I miss the old healthy Ahman Green. :(

[MJZiggy]

I miss the old healthy Ahman Green. :(

Green used to come down with fumblitis every now and again. I'm holding out faith that if they can fix it with Green (and when they fxed it, the fix stuck for a while), they can fix it with Grant too. Besides the fumble in the 3rd quarter was just perfectly played D. I don't know what more he could have done.

[mmmdk]

yeah but I don't see BJack or Lumpy doing much better....and we'd be bitching at TT for not signing Grant.

...I don't know. Maybe Grant is thinking too much; a bad OL might do that. Kreggy, as I call him :lol: , would hit holes...not thinking. BJ is a toss up but I agree with Madtown; BJ would've done just as "good" today.

[GBRulz]

yeah but I don't see BJack or Lumpy doing much better....and we'd be bitching at TT for not signing Grant.

...I don't know. Maybe Grant is thinking too much; a bad OL might do that. Kreggy, as I call him :lol: , would hit holes...not thinking. BJ is a toss up but I agree with Madtown; BJ would've done just as "good" today.

I agree with what he said also. But my point was, if we didn't sign Grant and only had BJack running for 2 yds a carry, we'd be calling for TT's head on a platter.

I'm not sure what the OL line has to do with all the problems all of a sudden. We did just fine last year with the same guys for the most part.

[Pacopete4]

I didnt think he should get paid after less than a seasons performance and now he is showing why. He cant push a pile forward and only is good in space. Dunn who is smaller and much older showed what tough running is about it.



you really think its Grants fault there are no holes to run thru?

this line stunk last year and it hasn't changed other than our actual good lineman just getting older...

[packerbacker1234]

I didnt think he should get paid after less than a seasons performance and now he is showing why. He cant push a pile forward and only is good in space. Dunn who is smaller and much older showed what tough running is about it.

Few things.

1. Grant started out running very hard today. He got a bunch of tough yards early. Then guess what the packers did? Took it out of his arms, and put it in AR's hands.

We saw the results of that. OF course, they tried to go back to it... yeah thats not going to work. They were already sitting on our passing routes by then, so stopping the run was cake.

I don't even blame Grant for the fumble. He tucked it and lowered the shoulders. Helmet to ball contact just under him. Many fumble in that situation.

The mistake I think is the coaching calls. We were running succesfully early. That first drive was a prime example. We went away from it.

News Flash to MM: You don't have favre out there. Lets run a little traditional smash mouth football and let AR get some easy success off play action.

[Pugger]

MM kept trying to run after the first qter but the blocking up front was atrocious. :cry:

[MadtownPacker]

you really think its Grants fault there are no holes to run thru?

this line stunk last year and it hasn't changed other than our actual good lineman just getting older...No, it is Grant's fault he is not able to convert a 3rd and 1 by himself, ever. When has he been good for short yardage situations that the offense has to have? Did he get the 4th down today? I cant remember now. Been too crazy a weekend.

[MadtownPacker]

Few things.

1. Grant started out running very hard today. He got a bunch of tough yards early. Then guess what the packers did? Took it out of his arms, and put it in AR's hands.

We saw the results of that. OF course, they tried to go back to it... yeah thats not going to work. They were already sitting on our passing routes by then, so stopping the run was cake.

I don't even blame Grant for the fumble. He tucked it and lowered the shoulders. Helmet to ball contact just under him. Many fumble in that situation.

The mistake I think is the coaching calls. We were running succesfully early. That first drive was a prime example. We went away from it.

News Flash to MM: You don't have favre out there. Lets run a little traditional smash mouth football and let AR get some easy success off play action.Many very good point but what I am pointing at is that Grant wears down during a game while good RBs wear the defense down. That is what I think M3 is trying to do but it is not working. That fumble was a good hit and not really a complaint from today.

[Bretsky]

We are a very, very young team. It sucks. We were too QB dependent on offense and now we find out what happens when we don't have one.

I think Wist is right. We need a stronger OL and a stronger DL.


Agree with this as well; our defense and ST won an early game last year and then Favre went on fire.....that helped formulate a solid Running Game.

Now we need the OL to step up; teams are not going to game plan to stop our passing attack. I think Grant will be fine and he's well down the list of players I'd throw darts at right now

[retailguy]

Look, clearly the OL is hampering the Offense. Is it the only problem? Of course not. But the line has been "an issue" for 3 seasons now. That's Ted's line, and his fault.

Grant is very inexperienced. We caved and paid him too soon. However, when the line opens holes, Grant is better than anything we've got. But, the line isn't consistent at opening holes. Grant is frantically looking for holes, I kind of liken it to QB "happy feet".

When the line does it's job, Grant will probably be OK, in the meantime, I think it's time for B-Jack. He's healthy too.

Ted owes us a decent OL. This part of it is clearly HIS problem.

[rbaloha1]

Actually thought Grant looked healthy today. IMO missing training camp is hurting timing and vision.

For example on a third and short the cutback lane was available for a huge gain but RG missed it.

Please do not give up on RG. Once the game film is reviewed RG starts making big plays. However if Matt Flynn starts all bets are off.

[retailguy]

Please do not give up on RG.

I agree. don't give up on me. I'm worth the faith.

[packerbacker1234]

you really think its Grants fault there are no holes to run thru?

this line stunk last year and it hasn't changed other than our actual good lineman just getting older...No, it is Grant's fault he is not able to convert a 3rd and 1 by himself, ever. When has he been good for short yardage situations that the offense has to have? Did he get the 4th down today? I cant remember now. Been too crazy a weekend.

First off - if you think Grant got a good spot on his 3rd and one run... then you didn't see what I did. The ball, before he got pushed back after the whistle, was sitting on top of two other guys right on the line. He got put back to where he landed after being pushed back.

Did he get the ball in a 4th down situation? No, he did not. So your point there is mute. The other run where he was completely stuffed again, a 3rd down. Of course, 3 guys hit him. Sorry, very few are going to push two linebackers and DL anywhere. One player, sure, maybe two if one is a CB. Three? No.

Oh, and he did push on the third and one earlier. Again, bad spot. He layed the wood pretty good on a guy and bounced off.

[packerbacker1234]

Few things.

1. Grant started out running very hard today. He got a bunch of tough yards early. Then guess what the packers did? Took it out of his arms, and put it in AR's hands.

We saw the results of that. OF course, they tried to go back to it... yeah thats not going to work. They were already sitting on our passing routes by then, so stopping the run was cake.

I don't even blame Grant for the fumble. He tucked it and lowered the shoulders. Helmet to ball contact just under him. Many fumble in that situation.

The mistake I think is the coaching calls. We were running succesfully early. That first drive was a prime example. We went away from it.

News Flash to MM: You don't have favre out there. Lets run a little traditional smash mouth football and let AR get some easy success off play action.Many very good point but what I am pointing at is that Grant wears down during a game while good RBs wear the defense down. That is what I think M3 is trying to do but it is not working. That fumble was a good hit and not really a complaint from today.

How do you know this? Last year, he wore many a defense down. How do you think he had all those good rushing games?

Sure, if you look at the stat line now, it seems he disapears late. Well, he touched it 15 times. Look up again how many were in the second half. If he doesn't get the ball, he isn't wearing anyone down. Including himself.

[MadtownPacker]

No, it is Grant's fault he is not able to convert a 3rd and 1 by himself, ever. When has he been good for short yardage situations that the offense has to have? Did he get the 4th down today? I cant remember now. Been too crazy a weekend.

First off - if you think Grant got a good spot on his 3rd and one run... then you didn't see what I did. The ball, before he got pushed back after the whistle, was sitting on top of two other guys right on the line. He got put back to where he landed after being pushed back.

Did he get the ball in a 4th down situation? No, he did not. So your point there is mute. The other run where he was completely stuffed again, a 3rd down. Of course, 3 guys hit him. Sorry, very few are going to push two linebackers and DL anywhere. One player, sure, maybe two if one is a CB. Three? No.

Oh, and he did push on the third and one earlier. Again, bad spot. He layed the wood pretty good on a guy and bounced off.Saying he got a bad spot on every attempt is like saying a WR ran the wrong route. How many times is that really happening? If it was so bad why didnt M3 challenge it?

If you get paid big dinero to run the ball then you should get the call on 4th and 1.

[MadtownPacker]

Many very good point but what I am pointing at is that Grant wears down during a game while good RBs wear the defense down. That is what I think M3 is trying to do but it is not working. That fumble was a good hit and not really a complaint from today.

How do you know this? Last year, he wore many a defense down. How do you think he had all those good rushing games?

Sure, if you look at the stat line now, it seems he disapears late. Well, he touched it 15 times. Look up again how many were in the second half. If he doesn't get the ball, he isn't wearing anyone down. Including himself.Please, he didnt wear any defense down last year. Teams had to respect a high powered passing game that opened up the run, not the other way around. His yardage was all on big runs where he took it to the house. Not anything wrong with that but Im thinking maybe he aint an every down back after all even though he is almost paid like one.

Maybe if he had done more in the 1st half he would have got more carries. Instead he was stuffed and the Tampa D was able to focus on the passing game.

[packerbacker1234]

No, it is Grant's fault he is not able to convert a 3rd and 1 by himself, ever. When has he been good for short yardage situations that the offense has to have? Did he get the 4th down today? I cant remember now. Been too crazy a weekend.

First off - if you think Grant got a good spot on his 3rd and one run... then you didn't see what I did. The ball, before he got pushed back after the whistle, was sitting on top of two other guys right on the line. He got put back to where he landed after being pushed back.

Did he get the ball in a 4th down situation? No, he did not. So your point there is mute. The other run where he was completely stuffed again, a 3rd down. Of course, 3 guys hit him. Sorry, very few are going to push two linebackers and DL anywhere. One player, sure, maybe two if one is a CB. Three? No.

Oh, and he did push on the third and one earlier. Again, bad spot. He layed the wood pretty good on a guy and bounced off.Saying he got a bad spot on every attempt is like saying a WR ran the wrong route. How many times is that really happening? If it was so bad why didnt M3 challenge it?

If you get paid big dinero to run the ball then you should get the call on 4th and 1.

I said he had a bad spot on ONE play. How is that every play? So, WR's can run one route wrong per play? It happens.

[Chevelle2]

Many very good point but what I am pointing at is that Grant wears down during a game while good RBs wear the defense down. That is what I think M3 is trying to do but it is not working. That fumble was a good hit and not really a complaint from today.

How do you know this? Last year, he wore many a defense down. How do you think he had all those good rushing games?

Sure, if you look at the stat line now, it seems he disapears late. Well, he touched it 15 times. Look up again how many were in the second half. If he doesn't get the ball, he isn't wearing anyone down. Including himself.Please, he didnt wear any defense down last year. Teams had to respect a high powered passing game that opened up the run, not the other way around. His yardage was all on big runs where he took it to the house. Not anything wrong with that but Im thinking maybe he aint an every down back after all even though he is almost paid like one.

Maybe if he had done more in the 1st half he would have got more carries. Instead he was stuffed and the Tampa D was able to focus on the passing game.

Why, then, did Wynn and Jackson ran so poorly the first 4 weeks?

[MadtownPacker]

Why, then, did Wynn and Jackson ran so poorly the first 4 weeks?Actually, when Wynn could catch his breath he did pretty damn good. Problem was he didnt have much in the tank.

Jackson is still running poorly to this day IMO.

[GoPackGo]

Few things.

1. Grant started out running very hard today. He got a bunch of tough yards early. Then guess what the packers did? Took it out of his arms, and put it in AR's hands.

We saw the results of that. OF course, they tried to go back to it... yeah thats not going to work. They were already sitting on our passing routes by then, so stopping the run was cake.

I don't even blame Grant for the fumble. He tucked it and lowered the shoulders. Helmet to ball contact just under him. Many fumble in that situation.

The mistake I think is the coaching calls. We were running succesfully early. That first drive was a prime example. We went away from it.

News Flash to MM: You don't have favre out there. Lets run a little traditional smash mouth football and let AR get some easy success off play action.

I agree with this. :idea:

[Carolina_Packer]

We are a very, very young team. It sucks. We were too QB dependent on offense and now we find out what happens when we don't have one.



I think Wist is right. We need a stronger OL and a stronger DL.

Yeah, we are not just Justin Harrell away from being good on DL. We have gotten some pressure from the front 4 at times, which is mostly what the scheme does for pressure, but there are critical times where they get swallowed up and do not get any or enough pressure and give up a critical 3rd down conversion. Perhaps it's time for Sanders to consider getting them some more help MORE OFTEN.

Like I said in Skin's post, I think Grant is still dinged, even if he or someone else gave himself a clean bill of health. If he is indeed 100%, then he's incredibly rusty, because there were cutback lanes he clearly missed yesterday that he hit last year.

The DB's are doing a great job considering the amount of time they have to cover when our D-line can't bring consistent pressure. The tackling was attrocious overal yesterday. We did not look tough, and perhaps if we had, it might have gotten Tampa off the field on a more regular basis, and saved the D from being gassed by the end, and gives our offense more chances. Of couse, Rodgers was hampered by not having as much time to set-up and throw, and by our inability to run the ball and have that aspect of the offense be in the mix and concern the defense.

[Sparkey]

I didnt think he should get paid after less than a seasons performance and now he is showing why. He cant push a pile forward and only is good in space. Dunn who is smaller and much older showed what tough running is about it.



you really think its Grants fault there are no holes to run thru?

this line stunk last year and it hasn't changed other than our actual good lineman just getting older...

Grant missed quite a few cut back lanes yesterday. Seemed like he had tunnel vision on a lot of plays, always looking outside and never looking for the cutback lane, which is the whole point of the ZBS scheme.

[Scott Campbell]

I didnt think he should get paid after less than a seasons performance and now he is showing why. He cant push a pile forward and only is good in space. Dunn who is smaller and much older showed what tough running is about it.



you really think its Grants fault there are no holes to run thru?

this line stunk last year and it hasn't changed other than our actual good lineman just getting older...

Grant missed quite a few cut back lanes yesterday. Seemed like he had tunnel vision on a lot of plays, always looking outside and never looking for the cutback lane, which is the whole point of the ZBS scheme.



He's not running like last year. Some of it is the line. Alot of it is him.

[Kyle.McCarroll]

I didnt think he should get paid after less than a seasons performance and now he is showing why. He cant push a pile forward and only is good in space. Dunn who is smaller and much older showed what tough running is about it.



you really think its Grants fault there are no holes to run thru?

this line stunk last year and it hasn't changed other than our actual good lineman just getting older...

Grant missed quite a few cut back lanes yesterday. Seemed like he had tunnel vision on a lot of plays, always looking outside and never looking for the cutback lane, which is the whole point of the ZBS scheme.



He's not running like last year. Some of it is the line. Alot of it is him.

That probably sums it up the best in one sentence. :wink:

[bobblehead]

Hey, your stealing my thunder here...I think I was the most vocal critic of signing grant at the time.

[The Leaper]

Forget Grant.

Why are we sitting on millions in cap space when our OL is falling apart? There were numerous OL players available this offseason that could've helped shore up this OL...which was a high priority IMO considering Rodgers is a first year starter with a penchant for getting nicked.

Instead, Thompson dropped the ball big time.

Back to Grant...Thompson should've gotten the kid into camp on time. I have no doubt that the missed time this offseason is really affecting him. He let success go to his head.

[Zool]

Forget Grant.

Why are we sitting on millions in cap space when our OL is falling apart? There were numerous OL players available this offseason that could've helped shore up this OL...which was a high priority IMO considering Rodgers is a first year starter with a penchant for getting nicked.

Instead, Thompson dropped the ball big time.

Back to Grant...Thompson should've gotten the kid into camp on time. I have no doubt that the missed time this offseason is really affecting him. He let success go to his head.

Numerous is a bit of a stretch, but lets say you were right. After the way the young guys ended the season last year, why would management think a big change was needed? As is frequently said here and everywhere else that football is discussed, OL guys take a few years to develop.

[The Leaper]

Numerous is a bit of a stretch, but lets say you were right. After the way the young guys ended the season last year, why would management think a big change was needed?

Favre made that OL look far better than it was. We all know it. Favre had the experience and savvy to not hold the ball too long...like a first time starter will have the tendency of doing.

There is zero excuse for just hoping the OL would somehow come together this offseason. Without your HOF veteran QB, you needed to UPGRADE the OL in experience and talent. It wasn't done.

[Zool]

Hind site is 20/20 and not a single person had anything bad to say after the Vikings game. Now all the sudden is the end of the fucking world again. I just dont get the logic. Where were you September 9th?

[MadtownPacker]

Sept 9th??? I was disgusted with Grant as soon as I heard he was threatening to hold out this summer. Why? Because these guys always seem to get hurt and not come back showing what they got the money for in the first place. Or are you saying Grant has been as good as the half season he showed last year???????

[bobblehead]

Forget Grant.

Why are we sitting on millions in cap space when our OL is falling apart? There were numerous OL players available this offseason that could've helped shore up this OL...which was a high priority IMO considering Rodgers is a first year starter with a penchant for getting nicked.

Instead, Thompson dropped the ball big time.

Back to Grant...Thompson should've gotten the kid into camp on time. I have no doubt that the missed time this offseason is really affecting him. He let success go to his head.

Weren't you the one who pointed out that grant only missed like 5 practices?

[bobblehead]

Numerous is a bit of a stretch, but lets say you were right. After the way the young guys ended the season last year, why would management think a big change was needed?

Favre made that OL look far better than it was. We all know it. Favre had the experience and savvy to not hold the ball too long...like a first time starter will have the tendency of doing.

There is zero excuse for just hoping the OL would somehow come together this offseason. Without your HOF veteran QB, you needed to UPGRADE the OL in experience and talent. It wasn't done.

I'll give you some credit for the favre factor, but arod has been under IMMEDIATE pressure the last 2 games. Clifton is whiffing blocks straight up. Grant is looking more like jackson. This line is in a slump. Can they turn it around...sure, they did last year, but I hope they hurry the hell up.