Favre and retirement 'the Right Time' to go.

[woodbuck27]

When Is The Right Time To Retire?

Written by Ken Leibee - NFL Draft Blitz

Thursday, 22 June 2006

The players just can't win. Barry Sanders retires in his prime and less than 1500 yards away from the rushing record and all the fans ask why? Vinny Testaverde is 90 years old and hung on for every last second, got every paycheck he could. Brett Favre says the word retirement and one team's fans cry while the rest jump for joy. Did Barry leave too early? Should Brett be home in Mississippi already? Vinny Testaverde was worth a paycheck? When is the right time to retire?

When Jim Brown retired at the ripe old age of 28 he already held the career rushing record. Even though he only played 9 seasons, that record stood until Walter Payton broke it in 1984. Brown still holds the record for average yards per rush over his career and is the only running back to date to average over 100 yards per game. Why did Brown retire so young? He wanted to be a movie star. Let's look over the list of movies that kept Jim Brown busy: Rio Conchos, The Dirty Dozen, El Condor (?), Slaughter, and of course Slaughter 2. Then he moved into TV scoring quest appearances on CHiPs, Knight Rider and TJ Hooker to name a few. He really must not have liked playing football much if it was more enjoyable to play the part of Gunn in Black Gunn. A minority activist acted in a blacksploitation film. Really? Jim you could have done so much more. Three more years and you would still be on top of the career rushing list. Another player I think retired too early is Barry Sanders. He was still in his prime and had a shot at immortality with only 1457 yards to go to catch Payton. But Barry stuck to his guns. He walked off the field and in to relative anonymity. I can respect that.

Now the question is who are our poster children for hanging on too long? Jerry Rice? He was still productive even in his last season with Seattle so I have to say no, although maybe he should have let it go a couple of years earlier.

Brett Favre? I'll talk about him later.

My poster boy for hanging on too long is Emmitt Smith. He broke Payton's rushing record in 2002, but it was by far his worst pro season up to that point. And yet, at and old and abused 33 years old he signed with the Arizona Cardinals. Yes you read that right, the Arizona Cardinals. He played there for not one, but two seasons, averaging a horrid 3.3 yards per carry on 357 total carries. I know he was hurt in his first season in Arizona but in my opinion he never should have gone there. He should have retired on top in 2002 with his record and his dignity intact.

So, when is the right time to retire? When you've made enough money and you know your place in the game will never get any higher. Just like Robert Smith did. He walked away from the Minnesota Vikings in 2000 after a season when he gained over 1500 yards and averaged over 5 yards per carry. Like Jim Brown, he was only 28 when he stepped off the field. So why do I say he left at just the right time? He was never going to set any records and he felt that the Vikings window for getting to the Superbowl had closed. Robert Smith is also a well educated man who had prospects to make a great living outside of football. He is a published author and has worked for ESPN as a college football analyst.

What about Brett Favre?

There are a number of people who thought Favre should have retired even before last season. After last season's 29 interceptions and the Packers' 4-12 record that number skyrocketed. I'm not one of those people. Favre has always kept himself in good shape and with the defensive improvements the Packers made they should improve on that 4-12 record. I think Favre came back to prove that last season was a fluke. Of course he's also only **26 touchdown passes away from the career TD record held by Dan Marino. I'm sure that has nothing to do with him coming back though. Brett just wants to lead the Pack to the Promised Land one more time. That way he can walk away at the top of the, at just the right time.


**woodbuck27: make that 25 TD's away fr. snapping Marino's All - Time TD record.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Brett Favre is retiring ?????!!! Oh Christ!!!! No! No! No!

[woodbuck27]

Brett Favre is retiring ?????!!! Oh Christ!!!! No! No! No!

NO ! NO Dam Way! WE will not allow that HH. He can't leave this sinking ship. Isn't he the Captain?

[packerpete]

Brett really screwed himself when he first was ambivalent when asked about ending his career. The timing of the first question was poor, it was far too early in Bretts career, and I wish he would have just stated he wouldnt address any retirement talk right then and there.

he opened the door for questions every time he has a press conference, and that is a burden he has had to carry. It has spilled over into a franchise burden and it is detrimental to the team dynamic, as well as causing undue front office angst.

I think the world of Brett Favre as a competitor and as a person just from his on-field pwerformance and his off-field tribulations which he has shared through his press conferences. He deserves respect. He doesnt get the respect he deserves from the press with their constant hounding about his leaving the game.

He is a young 36 with no major surgeries behind him, and he could easily continue playing until 38 or 39, his physical skills have not eroded. Both Marino and Elway played to ages beyond Brett.

Bretts biggest problem, IMHO, is that as he has aged, his skills have been retained, yet his mental approach to the game has failed to mature.

If Brett could take his skill level and use it in a more learned fashion, he would be unbeatable, even with "stumblebums" around him. Indeed, what kind of talent has he had around him throughout his career? Average guys with a lot of "try hard". The few that were more than that Brett "made", with the exception of Ahman Green, he is a true talent, the only one besides Sharpe that Brett has played with, and Sharpe left far too soon due to injury.

I hope Brett can play 3 more years including 2006. I would love to see him go out like Elway (on top), he deserves nothing less.

[RashanGary]

Brett really screwed himself when he first was ambivalent when asked about ending his career. The timing of the first question was poor, it was far too early in Bretts career, and I wish he would have just stated he wouldnt address any retirement talk right then and there.

he opened the door for questions every time he has a press conference, and that is a burden he has had to carry. It has spilled over into a franchise burden and it is detrimental to the team dynamic, as well as causing undue front office angst.

I think the world of Brett Favre as a competitor and as a person just from his on-field pwerformance and his off-field tribulations which he has shared through his press conferences. He deserves respect. He doesnt get the respect he deserves from the press with their constant hounding about his leaving the game.

He is a young 36 with no major surgeries behind him, and he could easily continue playing until 38 or 39, his physical skills have not eroded. Both Marino and Elway played to ages beyond Brett.

Bretts biggest problem, IMHO, is that as he has aged, his skills have been retained, yet his mental approach to the game has failed to mature.

If Brett could take his skill level and use it in a more learned fashion, he would be unbeatable, even with "stumblebums" around him. Indeed, what kind of talent has he had around him throughout his career? Average guys with a lot of "try hard". The few that were more than that Brett "made", with the exception of Ahman Green, he is a true talent, the only one besides Sharpe that Brett has played with, and Sharpe left far too soon due to injury.

I hope Brett can play 3 more years including 2006. I would love to see him go out like Elway (on top), he deserves nothing less.

GREAT post....

[Partial]

My thoughts on it are this. You only live once. Grab life by the horns and run with it. Cram as much in for as long as you can.

If Brett wants to play until he's 1000 and is good enough to, why shouldn't he? Who cares if Testeverde is old? He's out there doing his job, even if he's a third stringer, he's making fat cash living the life. All this legacy garbage is just that.

[woodbuck27]

"I hope Brett can play 3 more years including 2006. I would love to see him go out like Elway (on top), he deserves nothing less." packerpete

I believe Favre still has alot of magic left to show us and he'll not retire this season if we are lucky. I hope he is buttoned into what he has to do to gain a big edge over last season.

In order for him to perform well, OUR OL has to protect him and support the run, or it's lights out for Favre and 'the Packers'.

If we don't rebound to respectability, then I expect Brett Favre to retire.

[Harlan Huckleby]

even if he's a third stringer, he's making fat cash living the life. All this legacy garbage is just that.

I totally agree with this. I wish more players were content to finish out their careers as backups. Teams would be better for it, and it beats sittin around the house. But the vets don't want to continue their careers at reduced salary. QB is kind of a special case, Doug Flutie was still getting multi-millions per year as an aging backup.

[Polaris]

"I
I believe Favre still has alot of magic left to show us and he'll not retire this season if we are lucky. I hope he is buttoned into what he has to do to gain a big edge over last season.

.[/b]


I believe that Favre hasn't engineered a game-winning TD drive late in the fourth quarter since 2001. I believe that since the middle of the 2002 season he's lost more games than he's won. I believe his 29 interceptions last year was one of the worst performances in history. I believe his 6 INTs in a playoff game is a record.

I believe that in 2004, with a powerful line in front of him, and recent/current Pro Bowlers all around him, he was rated the #10 QB in the league.....to me, that strongly suggests an average QB being supported by a very powerful cast.

In 2005, minus the powerful cast, he looked like a below-average QB on a bad team.

Since his final Super Bowl appearance in 1997, he's had 7 playoff appearances with a good offensive team around him every time. His aggregate QB passer rating in those 7 games is 67.4.........which is even lower than his passer rating for the 2005 season, if you can believe that.

In short, I no longer believe that this team is going anywhere with Brett Favre. Not this year, not next year, not the year after. Whatever "magic" he may have left it sure hasn't evidenced itself in big games over the last 8 years with pretty good offensive players around him and I think it's unlikely to surface with the cast around him this year.

IMO, the people who are hoping that Favre remains our best option at QB for the next couple of years are misguided and the best interests of the team would be served by moving forward at this position. Favre has been a great player for this franchise for a long time and he's a wonderfully fuzzy security blanket.........but IMO every day that he's the QB of this team is just one more day before the team starts moving forward again.

I'm a Packer fan, and I want what's best for the team more than I want what's best for any player. I realize he's the best QB on the team right now but I don't think that that we're going anywhere with him this year or in the future so I'd be in favor of the team doing whatever they think is necessary to get a viable alternative ready to go as quickly as possible.

[The Shadow]

Favre will play until he gets the records he desperately wants or is dragged off the field.

[MJZiggy]

Or until Deanna tells him he can stop...!

[woodbuck27]

"I believe that Favre hasn't engineered a game-winning TD drive late in the fourth quarter since 2001." Polaris

Did you keep up with what Favre has done since 2001 Polaris? I've got some exciting news for you, since I'm guessing now that you missed it.

2002

Favre brought Green Bay back from a 19-6 third-quarter deficit to defeat the Minnesota Vikings, 26-22 on Dec. 8, 2002, throwing touchdown passes of 21 and 40 yards (both on third down) while leading scoring drives of 67, 54 and 85 yards. He finished with 22 completions in 32 attempts for 214 yards and two TDs, with one INT (95.1 passer rating), in that Vikings contest

Also in 2002 Brett Favre:

Led Green Bay to its fourth division title and eighth playoff berth in his first 11 seasons with Green Bay. He was chosen NFL ‘Player of the Year’ by Sports Illustrated and received NFL MVP recognition from the Dallas Morning News. He was voted to the Pro Bowl (as a starter) for the seventh time in 11 seasons with Green Bay, though he later was forced to withdraw due to the foot/ankle/knee injuries from the season that had taken their toll

For the second year in a row, was the leading vote-getter in fan balloting for the Pro Bowl, picking up 930,270 votes – 182,973 more than second-place Priest Holmes (747,297)

Also was a second-team All-Pro selection of AP, named All-NFC by Pro Football Weekly.

Favre led the NFC in passing attempts (551) and completions (341); he also was tied for the conference lead (with the Saints’ Brooks) in touchdown passes (27).He led Green Bay to its fourth division title and eighth playoff berth in his first 11 seasons with Green Bay.

He finished third in the NFC in passing yards with 3,658, while ranking fifth in the conference in passer rating (85.6) and fourth in completion percentage (61.9). Favre posted a passer rating of 100-or-more in six games, second most in the NFL in 2002.

In win over the Patriots, he also became the fourth player in NFL history to throw 300 career touchdown passes – doing so with an 8-yard pass to Green late in the second quarter – tying, then surpassing, No. 3 Elway (300) in the process.

Do you recall in 2002 Polaris ? Favre completed 11 of 14 passes for 89 yards against Washington (Oct. 20) before departing early in the third quarter, when he sprained the lateral collateral ligament in his left knee while being sacked by the Redskins’ LaVar Arrington

Playing with a brace to protect his knee and a week off due to the Packers’ bye, came back and led Green Bay to a hard-fought, 24-10 Monday night win over a tough Miami defense (Nov. 4), completing 16 of 25 passes for 187 yards and one TD with one INT – an 83.2 passer rating.

2002 PLAYOFFS: He had 247 yards and one touchdown, on 20-of-42 passing with two INTs, in playoff game with Atlanta (Jan. 4), along the way throwing for a score in his 13th consecutive postseason contest to tie Marino’s NFL record.

Was Favre washed up Polaris, in 2002 ?


2003.

Played in all 16 games despite fracturing the thumb on his right (throwing) hand early in the team's seventh contest, at St. Louis (Oct. 19), leaving him in considerable pain for at least the next month, and needing to wear a protective splint on the thumb for the balance of the year

Led Green Bay to its ninth playoff appearance and fifth division title (second in a row) in his 12th year at the helm.

Was selected to his eighth career Pro Bowl (1992-93, 1995-97, 2001-03), tying him with Willie Wood for the second-most selections in team history (behind Forrest Gregg’s nine ).

Also was named to the All-NFC team of Pro Football Weekly.

Along the way, he helped the Packers to 442 points, the second-highest total in franchise history, behind only the 456 scored by the 1996 Super Bowl champions

Finished second in the NFC in passer rating (90.4), completing 308 of a career-low 471 passing attempts – a career-best and franchise-record 65.4 completion percentage (also first in the NFC) – for 3,361 yards and an NFL-best 32 touchdowns, with 21 interceptions.

Favre authored six games with a passer rating of 100 or better.

Brett Favre ran coordinator Tom Rossley’s offense to near perfection, the group becoming the NFL’s first unit to: rush for at least 2,500 yards, pass for at least 3,300 yards, complete at least 65 percent of passes, rush for at least 18 TDs and pass for at least 32 TDs

Brett Favre started the club's two postseason games, completing 41 of his 66 passes for 499 yards and three TDs with one INT.

Any 4th Qtr. comebacks in 2003 Polaris? Well. . . yes there was.

Imagine this. The washed up QB if the Packers ( Brett Favre) orchestrated not one or two but FOUR 4th Quarter comebacks in 2003. Three 0f those comebacks were on the road.

Nov. 2 at Minnesota, Nov. 16 at Tampa Bay, Dec. 14 at San Diego and Jan. 4 vs. Seattle in the playoffs.

In that Seattle 4th Quarter comeback game, Favre efficiently lead Green Bay to a 33-27, overtime triumph over the Seahawks, throwing for 319 yards on 26-of-38 passing – without an INT – for a passer rating of 102.9.

He had a fourth-quarter passer rating of 102.5 during the postseason (12-15-129-0-0)

So that is ( Five ). . . . 4th Qtr. comebacks since 2001. Polaris.

As well Polaris, in 2003. Favre captured NFC 'Offensive Player of the Month' honors for December, when he completed 79 of 117 passes for 1,003 yards and 10 touchdowns, including a pair of four - TD games (his first since the '99 season), with only three interceptions, in leading Green Bay to a 4-0 record and 144 points during the month – an average of 36 points per game.

Brett Favre turned in one of the most memorable performances of his career – and in the history of Monday Night Football – in 41-7 victory at Oakland (Dec. 22), playing with a heavy heart one day after the sudden death of his father (Irvin)

He completed 22 of 30 passes (73.3 percent) for 399 yards and four TDs, without an interception, against the Raiders – for a team-record 154.9 passer rating and threw for a career-best 311 yards in the first half, including TDs of 22 yards to Wesley Walls, 23 and 43 yards to Walker and 6 yards to David Martin, as the Packers opened up a 31-7 halftime advantage. His initial touchdown pass to Walker (and second of the game), late in the first quarter of the Oakland contest, gave him 343 for his career and pushed him past Tarkenton into second place on the NFL's all-time list.

His performance in that contest earned the ESPN ESPY’s 2004 ‘Best Moment’.

In case you missed it, Polaris? A week earlier at San Diego (Dec. 14), Brett Favre also had thrown for four TDs, including a pair of second-half scores to Ferguson in the Packers' come-from-behind 38-21 win

Oh yea! Favre completed 23 of 33 passes (70.0 percent) for 278 yards against the Chargers, with only one interception, he also broke Cecil Isbell's long-standing team record for consecutive games with a touchdown pass (22), connecting with Driver just before halftime for a score in his 23rd straight contest

During the second half of the Chargers game and the first half of the Oakland contest, at one point had completed 17 of 18 passes, including his first nine against the Raiders

He broke Gregg's franchise record for consecutive games played in (whaaaaat. . . not another comeback victory) over Chicago (Dec. 7) by suiting up for his 188th straight contest.


2004

In 2004 Brett Favre completed his 13th Green Bay season (more than any current player or coach).

Brett Favre completed 346 of 540 passes – a 64.1 percent completion percentage, tied for his second best as a pro – for 4,088 yards and 30 touchdowns with 17 interceptions, giving him a passer rating of 92.4 – the fifth-best total in his pro career.

He passed for more than 4,000 yards a fourth time as a professional (and the first time since 1999), standing fifth in the league behind Culpepper (4,717), the Chiefs’ Trent Green (4,591), Manning (4,557) and the Broncos’ Jake Plummer (4,089)

He authored eight games with a passer rating above 100.

So Polaris. Is he falling off in 2004 ?

In the home opener with Chicago (Sept. 19), he broke the NFL record (since 1970) for most consecutive games with a touchdown pass vs. a single opponent by throwing for a score in a 25th straight game against the Bears; he had been tied for the league mark with Marino, who had a TD toss in 24 consecutive contests vs. the N.Y. Jets.

He became the third quarterback in league history with 4,000 career completions Sept. 26 at Indianapolis. He Threw for 360 yards and four touchdowns on 30-of-44 passing, without an interception, for a passer rating of 123.1, tieing Johnny Unitas for the second most four - TD games (17) in NFL history.

Now Polaris, for some of that Brett Favre MAGIC.

Playing with a softball-sized bruise on his left hamstring suffered the prior week, completed 12 of 18 passes for 110 yards and one TD vs. the N.Y. Giants (Oct. 3) before leaving the game early in the second half due to a concussion

He suffered the injury on the first drive of the third quarter after Giants defensive linemen William Joseph and Keith Washington fell on him; returned two plays later to throw a 28-yard TD strike to Walker on fourth-and-5, the Packers' only score of the game

Team doctors subsequently ruled he was not healthy enough to go back into the game and he remained sidelined for the remainder of the contest
Returned the following week to launch an unprecedented long-distance streak, completing a pass of at least 44 yards in six consecutive games (Oct. 11-Nov. 21), by far the longest stretch of his career.

Favre established a pair of milestones in victory at Detroit (Oct. 17)

By taking the Packers’ first offensive snap, he surpassed Starr (196) for No. 1 on the franchise’s all-time games-played list with 197. He also moved ahead of Fran Tarkenton (47,003) and into fourth place in career passing yards.

Favre played in his 200th NFL game (including the 1991 season with Atlanta), while also making his 100th career home start, in victory over Dallas (Oct. 24) He completed a season-high 79.3 percent of his passes (23 of 29) for 258 yards and a pair of scores, without an interception, giving him a 126.7 passer rating.

Brett Favre was named NFC ‘Player of the Month’ for November after helping the Packers to a perfect 3-0 record during a month that saw him lead Green Bay to a pair of comeback victories along with make his 200th consecutive NFL start.

There wasn't that two more come back victories.

He drove the Packers to victory for the 31st time in his career when tied or behind in the fourth quarter, taking his team down the field for a walk-off field goal after Minnesota rallied from a 14-point deficit to tie the game at 31 with 1:20 remaining

He completed passes to nine different receivers in leading Green Bay to a 34-31 triumph in initial meeting of the year with the Vikings (Nov. 14), capturing NFC ‘Offensive Player of the Week’ honors. Favre posted a season-high 133.0 passer rating (min. 20 att.) on 20-of-29 passing for 236 yards and four TDs – without a pick and that moved into second place in NFL history with his 18th career four-TD game, breaking a tie with Unitas.

Favre found himself in an even more dire situation a week later at Houston (Nov. 21) in a Sunday night game trailing 13-3, he passed for 201 yards in the final period to bring Green Bay back to victory from a fourth-quarter deficit of 10-or-more points on the road for the first time in 14 years; it also marked his own 32nd game-winning comeback.

So the magic was still there in 2004 Polaris, as he recorded his 7th fourth quarter comeback since 2001.. ** It's not done yet for 2004! **

Favre saw his string of 36 consecutive games with at least one touchdown pass – second longest in NFL history – come to an end in loss at Philadelphia (Dec. 5)

** Dealing with difficult wind conditions Dec. 12 vs. Detroit, hit on 19 of 36 passes for 188 yards and one TD, including 16 second-half completions
On the Packers' lone touchdown drive, completed six passes for 59 yards, including a 23-yard scoring strike to Driver between a pair of Lions
another comeback that marked the 34th time in his career he had rallied the Packers from a fourth-quarter deficit or tie to win.

Favre rallied his team to 10 unanswered points to steal the division crown away from the Packers’ archrival Vikings.He first directed a 13-play, 80-yard TD drive to tie the score at 31 with 3:34 left on the clock, converting a pair of third downs as well as throwing for the 3-yard score to Driver on fourth down. Then, with 1:35 remaining and two timeouts, took Green Bay 76 yards in 11 plays to the Vikings’ 11, from where Longwell booted a 29-yard field goal as time expired.

Note:
Just prior to the Longwell’s game-winning kick, Brett Favre hung in there against a Minnesota blitz, releasing the ball just before being drilled by Vikings S Brian Russell, then watching as Walker pivoted 31 yards up the right sideline. How many times has Brett Favre taken it for the team? Many.

He completed 30 of 43 passes for 365 yards and three TDs, with one INT, for a 109.2 passer rating in NFC North title game, earning FedEx Air ‘NFL Player of the Week’ honors. He also moved past Moon (49,325) and into third place on the NFL’s all-time passing yards list in Vikings contest.

He went over 4,000 yards passing for the fourth time and reached the 30-touchdown plateau for an NFL-record eighth time as a pro at Chicago (Jan. 2) before exiting regular-season finale midway through the second quarter.

Favre and the Packers fell behind very early to the Vikings in their early exit as the Viking Offence blew by the Packers "D". Brett Favre played badly in that game.

2005

Brett favre had 'Dick All', besides Donald Driver on "O" to work with last season, as the OL never got on track, and the Packers fell to adversity (way too many injuries to key players on OUR "O'). We suffered huge loss's in personnel when the likes of Javon Walker,Terrence Murphy,Ahman Green ,Najeh Davenport and Bubba Franks missed many games due to injury.

Brett Favre and OUR offence never got on track. Despite that, he was playing amazingly well after six games, and OUR record was 1-5. Dam he led the NFL in TD's at that stage and his passer rating was about 93. He gave it his best - passing for the most yards in the NFC and throwing the most pass's in the NFL by seasons welcome end

He'll come back if anyone can.

Again Polaris. I want to fast forward to see more Favre magic this season. Brett Favre will give it, as he always has - and he does still give us the very BEST chance to win.

[packerpete]

Right On Woody!!

let me add... shut the f**k up Polaris!

read the above post , it is ALL TRUE, no spin, no BS.

Favre bashing can just stop right here, right now.

If any of you are packer fans, at least stop for ONE SECOND and savor everything this guy has done while wearing the Packer uniform PROUDLY.

He has never waivered in his loyalty to the franchise, we should respect him for that alone.

Let this generation of fans take a lesson from the prior generation of fans that watched Bart Starr limp out of the league after a similarly glorius career entirely with the Packers.

The fans didnt turn on Bart when he was in decline, we shouldnt do that to Brett.

The "next win" isnt as important as the legacy the franchise and its fans have built.

Packer fans do not turn on the loyal career-long heros of Packer football.

Lets not be the first in the long line of Packer faithful to be spoiled little fair-weather fans. Stand behind your Packer players that have stood for the franchise through mnany years of tough football.

"Throw not ye worn heros under the proverbial bus, lest the bus steer towards thy self"

[woodbuck27]

Right On Woody!!


read the above post , it is ALL TRUE, no spin, no BS.

Favre bashing can just stop right here, right now.

If any of you are packer fans, at least stop for ONE SECOND and savor everything this guy has done while wearing the Packer uniform PROUDLY.

He has never waivered in his loyalty to the franchise, we should respect him for that alone.

Let this generation of fans take a lesson from the prior generation of fans that watched Bart Starr limp out of the league after a similarly glorius career entirely with the Packers.

The fans didnt turn on Bart when he was in decline, we shouldnt do that to Brett.

The "next win" isnt as important as the legacy the franchise and its fans have built.

Packer fans do not turn on the loyal career-long heros of Packer football.

Lets not be the first in the long line of Packer faithful to be spoiled little fair-weather fans. Stand behind your Packer players that have stood for the franchise through mnany years of tough football.

"Throw not ye worn heros under the proverbial bus, lest the bus steer towards thy self"

Thank You for the support for OUR HOFer QB Brett Favre, packerpete.

He is easy to stand up for, in my eyes, as he has flat out given me so much as a Packer fan. :D

[Polaris]

Woodbuck....you've amply demonstrated that he's prolific.......a fact which was not in question.

Your definition of a comeback appears to be any game where the Packers were trailing at any time by any margin. Specifically citing the Chicago game in 2003 as a comeback is especially hilarious as the Packers fell in an early 14-0 hole BECAUSE OF A FAVRE INTERCEPTION.

Then, the defense took over, registered 5 takeaways, scored one TD and recovered a fumble on the one-yard line. I think it's pretty disingenuous for you to give Brett Favre credit for that comeback.

If you'll read my original post a little more carefully, I specifically stated a "LATE 4th QUARTER TD drive". I'll stand by that.

The first "comeback" you attribute to him, the Dec. 8 2002 game, is a game we LOST. The 19-6 3rd quarter deficit was partly due to one of his interceptions. The TD pass to narrow the deficit was with 10 minutes left in the fourth.

The 2003 San Diego game? Better than 10 minutes left in the fourth. One of San Diego's 3 TDs was set up by a Brett Favre INT.

The 2003 game at Tampa Bay? Packers never trailed in that game.

The 2003 game at Minnesota? The Vikes had a 14-13 lead in the second quarter (on a TD set up by a Brett Favre INT) but the Packers retook the lead before the half and never trailed again.

The two 2004 games you cite were both field goals.

So.....If you read my ORIGINAL STATEMENT CLOSELY...it clearly states:

I believe that Favre hasn't engineered a game-winning TD drive late in the fourth quarter since 2001

And I think that's a true statement.




You know, when people start manufacturing stats to use in their arguments against me, or telling me to "shut the fuck up"......that pretty well lets me know there argument isn't that strong to begin with.

[Tony Oday]

Actually Polaris I think you are in a BOX here shooter start bringing the box cutters cause you will need them! :)

[woodbuck27]

"You know, when people start manufacturing stats to use in their arguments against me, or telling me to "shut the fuck up"......that pretty well lets me know there argument isn't that strong to begin with." Polaris

1. I never make reference to anyone on this forum with derogatory language, Polaris. I'm a Gentleman.

2. I don't argue with anyone when I post. Arguing is for IDIOT'S.

3. I don't need to justify my stance with you on 'the fact' - that Favre has 'in fact', engineered many 4th quarter comebacks for the Packers since 2001, Polaris. The record's say he has generated those 4th quarter comebacks as the teams QB. After the 2004 season he was credited with 34. That is alot more than he had after the 2001 season,Polaris.

If you are in dispute with me, take that up with Packers.com and the records displayed elsewhere. My memory doesn't serve me to re-call all games / all details in OUR past, but I can read very well.

5. Longwell didn't take the ball from center, to get himself in position to kick the game winning FG. That is what Brett Favre has done for the past 14 seasons.Yet Favre is the first to give credit where it is due, as he doesn't ever claim it's all him.

"Well, a receiver had to catch the ball. Somebody had to block. A running back had to execute a play-action fake or pick up a blitzing linebacker in the hole. The coaches had to draw up the play and teach it in practice. And the defense had to keep the game close enough to make a comeback possible."

Favre has always subscribed to the theory that the quarterback gets too much credit in victory and too much blame in defeat. Fair or not, it goes with the territory.

"Stand under center and you're the center of attention. You're the guy with the bull's-eye on your back and the game's outcome, on occasion, in the palm of your hand."

How many times we've seen Favre totally burnt after playing his guts out in a game.He plays till the final whistle and then walks off the field to answer to the media in glory or defeat. There was way too much of the latter last season and it all took Favre to his special HELL. He almost cashed in as a result of his disbelief that we would do so poorly. He came into TC as prepared as he ever had to get the team off and running to another spot in the playoffs, and quite frankly he was let down in regards that don't any longer merit any discussion.It's over and done with - tired out.

We move on.

6. If it's your position to take Brett Favre down. I have no problem with that, as plenty of Packer fans are guilty of that drive. Fill your boots, Polaris.

7. Favre played outstanding, overall in 2002-04, and led us to three NFCN championships to prove that. He wasn't to blame for OUR debacle last season, despite being the scapegoat for many Packer fans that only see results, not how they arrived. What might have cause that pick or that loss.

[woodbuck27]

and. . . . Jaysusss Mary and joseph, Polaris !

I only took on 'the first statement', that you made in that slam on Brett Favre. There was a whole lot that really got on the wrong side of me Polaris.

I support Favre and you don't. Let's just leave it there! LOL. :mrgreen:

[Tony Oday]

I like Favre he's like good 'n' stuff

[Harlan Huckleby]

I like Favre he's like good 'n' stuff

well spoken!

[packerpete]

You know, when people start manufacturing stats to use in their arguments against me, or telling me to "shut the fuck up"......that pretty well lets me know there argument isn't that strong to begin with.

Hey loser, I told you to shut the f**k up, and I meant it.

I didnt dispute any of your rantings against Brett Favre, Woody did that admirably, I dispute your right to be a Packer fan and say the crap you spewed. I honestly think you must be some gen x loser that jumped on the GBP bandwagon circa 1995 or so and thinks what you have seen is the cumulative history and substance of what GBP football is all about.

Think about history, think about respect, think about what you have contributed (nothing) and what Brett has contributed.

I dont care if Brett has a bad season this year, I think he deserves to start. The end result of that scenario is that he realizes that his skills have declined to the point where he needs to retire. If that happens, so be it. That point is far from where he is today.

3800 yards last season with 4th and 5th string RB and WR and no interior OL indicates that in spite of a few passes to the wrong team, he still has "IT".

So in short, I stand behind my reply to your lame ass post... shut the f**k up about Brett Favre and your lame ass opinion that he should quit the Packers and the NFL. You are obviously wrong and should admit such.

If you really think GBP football without BF is a step in the right direction, you havent looked around the league and especially at the QB cupboard in GB. The pickins are real, real slim brother. Favre is still among the cream of the crop, and in spite of some ints, he still has enough gas in the tank to continue to be a difference maker, he simply cannot do it by himself, he never could, it has always taken a team effort, and furthermore, he should not have been placed in the situation to have to try to as he was last season.

[Polaris]

Thank you Packerpete....

It's always nice when the Brownshirts let themselves be known.

I'd suggest that if the board software permits that you put me on ignore. If you think I'm going to "shut the fuck up" because you don't like what I'm saying then you're sadly mistaken.

In my original post, I did not say one thing that was not true. Not a single thing.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Deal with it.

[packerpete]

You can and will do as you please, just as I will let you and others know my feelings about it.

When your opinion is just plain wrong, I will continue to point it out.

You live with it, it seems to bother you more than I care.

I wont ignore you, I will just continue to point out your shortcomings when you formulate a point that is mistaken.

[woodbuck27]

"In my original post, I did not say one thing that was not true. Not a single thing.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Deal with it." Polaris

To many of us Polaris, 'the TRUTH' is merely what we perceive in ourselves that it is and 'in fact' we may be wrong. We get to really believing it's this or that, and lose sight of the facts. It's therefore always better to take an approach to try to learn what TRUTH is.

I won't go back to arguing with you on the fact I disagree with you that Favre has 'in fact' had - fourth quarter comebacks - since 2001, because he did acording to those supposedly in the know.I will certainly not argue with you of what the definition is of that term. The experts have defined that too Polaris.

I'm sure you are well aware of the factual contents of this following article that describes Brett Favre's LIFE for the period, just preceeding OUR 4-12 season in 2005. Maybe you read it or maybe not, but it certainly reminded me of the way that life can be orchestrated to humble us.

Here is Lori Nickel's fine Article:

Long season of heartaches

by Lori Nickel/Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
December 3, 2005


“Good timber does not grow with ease; the stronger the wind, the stronger the trees.”
— J. Willard Marriott

How much can one man handle?

A broken thumb? For Green Bay Packers quarterback Brett Favre, sure, it was rough, but of course he'd play through it.

But the sudden death of his father? Well, that hurt like nothing else.

Then Favre found out tragic news about his young brother-in-law, and then his wife had cancer. Cancer. The word alone sent chills through him.

Then former teammate Reggie White died unexpectedly, and surely, this couldn't all be happening in a 14-month span. How long can one man hold it together when everything else seems to be falling apart?

From October 2003 to the end of the 2004 season, Favre endured one form of personal adversity after another. Football, which had been his whole world, became a respite. At least on the field, Favre might have some control of what happened.

The 2003 Green Bay Packers season started out with a disappointing loss to Minnesota in the official unveiling of the newly renovated Lambeau Field. Then the Packers took a 3-3 record into Week 7, and that's when the tone of the season changed.

On Oct. 19, Favre broke the thumb on his right, throwing hand at St. Louis after he slammed it into the shoulder pad of lineman Mike Wahle. Favre shook off the injury and kept playing. He would spend nine weeks on the NFL injury report, the second-most in his career.

He wore a splint that both preserved his record-setting consecutive starting streak at quarterback and drove him absolutely nuts. The injured thumb helped contribute to fumbles and poor play for a few weeks, but Favre was still the leader of the Packers in victories against Minnesota in a rematch, Chicago and San Diego.

Still, the Packers were struggling to make the playoffs, sitting at 8-6 and trailing Minnesota in the divisional standings. Green Bay had to get a victory at Oakland on "Monday Night Football."

The day before the game, Favre learned that his father, Irvin, died of a heart attack while driving his car in Mississippi. 'Big Irv' was Brett's high school coach, his mentor and one of the closest people to him.

"I remember that day. I remember the uncertainty," Antonio Freeman said last week. He was a Packers receiver from 1995-2001 and again in 2003. "Brett came to our team meeting that night - his whole face was just pink.

"He had probably been crying, he was probably holding in a lot of tears. When you lose someone of that magnitude, you use your family to console you. He had no true family. Yeah, he had the team, but Deanna wasn't there, the kids weren't there, he wasn't in the comfort of his own home.

"I think of all the things he had to deal with. He couldn't go anywhere, and he had to deal with getting that news, of having to make a sudden decision about - do you play, or do you not, not having your family with you, being confined - all those things running together in about a three-hour period. It could have been very easy for him to walk away from that football team and say, 'Well, this is too much. This is my best friend, my dad, this is my everything, and it's too much for me,' and we all would have respected that.

"He handled it like a true champ. He handled it like the true competitor that he is. He said that his dad would have wanted him to play. It was a magical night. I still think back to that night and it was unbelievable. That night solidified everything I already knew about Brett Favre."

Favre played what he calls the best game of his entire 15-year career - MVP seasons, Super Bowls included.

Favre threw for 399 yards, four touchdowns and had a team-record passer rating of 154.9, just three points from perfect. The Packers rolled over the Raiders, 41-7.

The Packers flew Deanna out for the game, and the two walked off the field in one of the most memorable shots of Favre's career. That game was the best way Favre - at first nervous and then emotional - could pay tribute to the man he both admired and tried to please every time he put on a football jersey.

"I was afraid I wouldn't play well," Favre said Friday. "That day of the game, I'd almost forgotten who we were playing. I forgot all the stuff I prepared for all week. Here I am on the national stage, which is tough anyway, we're in a situation where we need to win, and all of a sudden, I couldn't tell you what they do on defense. I went blank.

"Playing is one thing. Going out there and honoring your father is another."

Around that time, Favre also made the Pro Bowl, despite the thumb injury, because he helped lead the Packers to 442 points, the second-highest in team history. He also threw an NFL-best 32 touchdown passes - 19 of them after that St. Louis game in which he broke the thumb.

The Packers won their last four games of the season, finished 10-6 and benefited from a total collapse by Minnesota. Arizona's Nate Poole caught a last-second, deep fourth-down pass to beat Minnesota, 18-17. The Packers claimed the NFC North title and headed to the playoffs red-hot.

Favre mourned the loss of his father in front of everyone and wondered if destiny had a role in the latest events.

"Something's going on here," Favre said at the time.

In the playoffs, the Packers won a thrilling home game against Seattle in overtime on a returned interception for a touchdown by Al Harris. But the team of destiny met its fate. In the second round, the Packers would not be able to hold Philadelphia on a fourth-and-26 play on defense.

The Eagles also threw a blitz that tripped up Favre just enough to force him to throw a late, game-changing interception. Eagles coach Andy Reid, Favre's former quarterbacks coach in Green Bay, said he was just trying to make a play and swore he didn't have the kryptonite only someone that close to Favre would know about.

"No, I mean, he's seen everything," Reid said recently. "We happened to catch it right. We needed to make a play at that time or we weren't going to be in that ball game."

In an instant, the Packers had their eyes on an NFC Championship game with Carolina, and maybe a good shot at the Super Bowl. But the season was over. Favre went home for a quiet off-season during which he was seldom heard from publicly.

The 2004 season began with a 1-4 start and a humiliating Monday night showing against Tennessee at Lambeau.

Soon after, in October 2004, Deanna Favre's brother, Casey Tynes, died in an all-terrain vehicle accident on the Favre property in Mississippi.

Still coming to terms with her brother's death, and admittedly numb, Deanna Favre then learned a lump in her breast was cancer. Though she caught it early and was given an excellent prognosis for recovery, she would need months of treatment - a lumpectomy, chemotherapy and radiation, all of which left her tired and at times very down.

"Cancer, it is as close to death as you can get," Brett Favre said. "As soon as I heard cancer, I thought, this is not good. When she told me that, my reaction was, you have got to be kidding me. I didn't feel sorry for myself, I felt sorry for her because she's always been the one who's kind of carried the load.

"I can't say that I ever asked, why me or why us. It was, 'How much more?' "

Two days after the Packers clinched their third consecutive NFC North Division championship with a 34-31 victory at Minnesota on Christmas Eve, in which Favre orchestrated 80-yard and 76-yard drives to win the game in the fourth quarter, White died. One of the NFL's greatest defensive linemen was only 43. He was very close to Favre as one of the leaders of the 1996 Super Bowl championship team. Favre missed a practice to be a pallbearer at White's funeral.

Through it all, Favre's numbers for 2004 were undeniably remarkable. He was still at the top of his game. He passed for 4,088 yards, 30 touchdowns and a 92.4 passer rating. Behind a solid offense that carried the team, Green Bay finished strong late in the season and made the playoffs.

But there they were, simply stung by Minnesota in the first round at Lambeau Field. Favre was sacked, threw interceptions and the Packers in general were mistake-prone. It was such a horrible game that Favre would have called it a career right then and there if he had been impulsive.

He didn't. He waited and gave himself time instead of making a rushed, and maybe regrettable, decision. He waited for Deanna's strength to return and for life that was cancer-free.

Deanna has since thrown herself into an advocacy role for breast cancer patients, starting her own Deanna Favre Hope Foundation. She helps raise money to pay for treatments for women in financial need.

When she was OK, Favre really started to miss the game and knew he had at least another season in him. He had hoped the personal turmoil was behind him.

"The thing about Brett is, even in the toughest of times, he was going to have fun doing what he did, and he was passionate about it," Reid said. "His overall toughness. You weren't going to keep him off the football field. Those are two things you really respect in him."

About two months after the end of the 2004 season, Favre said he'd come back for a 14th season in Green Bay in 2005. He'd come back a changed man in one way.

"One time in my life, for a long period of my life, football was all that really mattered," Favre said. "Everything else just kind of followed along with it. I lost Dad, and Dad was so much a part of my football career, just as much as life in general. Most of the time we talked, it was football. It wasn't, 'Hey, how's life going,' it was football. So when I lost him, it took a big chunk of football away from me.

"Then to lose Deanna's brother and have her face cancer, which is a family crisis, just made football seem so secondary. I would not want to have anyone go through what I went through to realize there is more to life than football. But it kind of opened my eyes to, this is a small period in your life, there are a lot of things much more important than football.

"Whether I had retired last year, whether I retire this year, next year, whatever, it really doesn't matter. Because I'm still here. And when I decide to leave, it'll be tough, but it won't be as tough as some of the things I've gone through."

[Patler]

So.....If you read my ORIGINAL STATEMENT CLOSELY...it clearly states:

I believe that Favre hasn't engineered a game-winning TD drive late in the fourth quarter since 2001

And I think that's a true statement.

So what's the difference if it is game-winning drive climaxed by a TD or a game-winning drive climaxed by a fieldgoal? Absolutely nothing, especially if the TD is on a running play.

You made a statement that may be true, but is meaningless within the context of winning and losing games. Moving the team into position for the winning score is all that matters.

[woodbuck27]

"I believe that since the middle of the 2002 season he's lost more games than he's won. I believe his 29 interceptions last year was one of the worst performances in history." Polaris

Just so you'll be a more - in the know ,up with the facts or TRUTH Packer fan, Polaris.

"I believe that since the middle of the 2002 season he's lost more games than he's won." Polaris

waaaaaaannnkkkk ! WRONG. NOPE !

The Packer record 'in the regular season', since game eight of the 2002 season is 29W - 27L. Overall, including playoff's, 30W - 30L.

It's interesting to me Polaris, that you decided to condemn Favre, since the middle of 2002, as the record for the first 8 games of 2002 was 7W - 1L.

Looking a little deeper.

Incidently, if you go back to look at all the games since OUR last Super Bowl win. Brett Favre's record as a QB (Wins Vs. Loss's) was 78W - 57L or (0.578). The Packer record from 1993 to date is - 142W - 86L or (0.623).

Even with the disasterous record of 2005 or 4-12, Brett Favre has experienced with his team alot of victories compared to loss's. His winning percentage as a QB prior to 2005 was outstanding compared to ALL QB's that ever played the game.

If you were to take away 2005 and look at his record from 1993 -2004 or over a span of a dozen season's.

The Packer's overall record in 212 games was. . . 138 W -74 L or a winning percentage of 0.651. That is REAL good! Compare that to the record of all the other QB's that played in the NFL since 1992 Polaris. That will keep you busy. . . but I'll advise that not many have won more, as regards a winning percentage, if you look at his work over that span of years compared to other's, Polaris. ALL other's.

"I believe his 29 interceptions last year was one of the worst performances in history." Polaris

I will agree that all those picks wern't a good thing but have you ever considered why Favre had all those picks? Was it all Brett Favre? What all led to any pick happening?

Polaris you have it in for Favre and so be it. That is really sad Packer fan, as he has accomplised 'way too much for us' as Packer fans, to be torn down as you have chosen to do. I won't - deride you or curse you, as you have every right to stand opposed to what Favre means to us now.

You would rather Rodgers be in there now Polaris? Would that be the answer, with all we are seeing from him?

If so, you may soon get, 'your wish', Polaris. Just hang in for a few more seasons of Favre magic! :mrgreen:

[woodbuck27]

Favre led the Packers to these ** 4th Quarter Comebacks since 2001:

The 2002 Season There were three **.

1. Sunday, September 8, 2002 - Packers 37 Falcons 34.

2. Sunday, September 29, 2002 - Packers 17 Panthers 14

3. Sunday, December 8, 2002 - Packers 26 Vikings 22

The 2003 Season There was one **.

4. Sunday, November 16, 2003 - Packers 20 Buc's 13. Note: Teams were tied in the 4th quarter.

The 2004 Season There were four **.

5. Sunday Nov. 14, 2004 - Packers 34 Vikings 31

6. Sunday Nov.21, 2004 - Packers 16 Texans 13

7. Sunday Dec. 12, 2004 - Packers 16 Lions 13

8. Friday Dec. 24, 2004 - Packers 34 Vikings 31

So Polaris I make that . . . 8 fourth quarter comebacks, that we saw Brett Favre engineer as OUR QB. . . since 2001.

That is a long ways from none.

Incidently in the game last year when we defeated the Detroit Lions 16 - 13 in O.T. the Packers trailed 13 - 10 after three quarters and that is just one more fourth quarter comeback with Brett Favre as OUR QB.

Now . . . that is 9 fourth quarter comebacks since 2001, Polaris.

That is better than two per season since 2001.

[woodbuck27]

Thursday, May 11, 2006

In Defense of Brett Favre #4,397 ( A Blog)

"When the Great Ones
are No Longer the Great Ones...
Sometimes they are the Last Ones to Know!"
-- Colin Cowherd

Basically that was the argument Colin Cowherd layed forth yesterday on his ESPN Radio program. Not to be outdone... and further carrying Colin's water... The Mike and Mike Show (also ESPN Radio), starring Mike Golic and Mike Greenberg, reiterated the point.

Here was their basic premise. Randy Johnson, Shaquielle O'Neal and Brett Favre are basically... in the twilight of their careers and maybe... just maybe they should consider packing it in.

RJ has struggled (He's 5-3) and does not seem to "go after" hitters like he used to. A commentator pointed out that 5 years ago... Randy would just bring the heat and not be concerned about who was up or what the game situation was... He was Randy effin' Johnson and he was the 6'10" Terminator!

On Shaq, their argument centered around the centers complaints of refs calling the game too tight. They bemoaned (Most Cowherd) less than stellar stats. Shaq had 21 points, 6 rebounds and 2 fouls in 29 minutes of play in the Heats' 111-89 win over the Nets.

Brett, of course, is in his off season. They seemed to focus on Brett's saying "Give me one or two more players and we can win." Ya know... I don't actually recall Brett saying that. I do recall his wanting the Pack to go out and field a competitive team... that I do recall... it's the Namath like guarantee of wins I don't recall.

Now Mike Golic, who actually played a sport, made the observation (after a listener emailed this point) that even an aging Randy Johnson, Shaq and Brett... are better than 70% of the rest of the players out there... they just don't "dominate" like they used to.

Golic further instructed that, perhaps it would be wise for the trio, as well as other elder sports hereos, to consider going all Jerome Bettis up in herrre. Basically, adapt your game. Jerome carried the ball less... specialized in Redzone and Ball control (Colts game goaline fumble hahahaha). Jerome also took a pay cut. Jerome... went out on top! Point taken.

Mike Greenberg, illicted the incredibly ridiculous statement of... Brett can't do the things he could when he was 30. First off... he's only effin' 36 now... that's just 6 years Greeny... duh! Secondly, anybody that's actually been following Brett knows full damn well Brett hasn't lost a single rpm on his patented fastball. Hell they still marvel at that with jugs guns during Pack Monday nighters! So basically my point is... double duh... What you saw out of Brett last year was exactly what you saw out of Brett in 2000. He just looks older.


Now listen... I get the point.
I'm old enough to remember the fat Elvis.
Sure... it would have been nicer to just remember the King as the good looking swivel hipped lady killer that he was in the 60's.


But age... pills... and the "all you can gorge" buffet table at Ceasers did Elvis in.

Has Brett lost a step?

How the Hell should we know? Brett rarely ran the ball... how many effin' times have you yelled at your tv screen on 3rd and 1, Brett's scrambling... he's right there... RIGHT effin' THERE at the down marker... he could trip over his own effin' shoe laces and move the chains but Nooooooooooooo... Super arm has to chuck the mo fo 40 yards down the field!

I swear... on my mother's eyes this happens at least 4 times a year!


As to Brett's "playing Past" the time he should.

Heck in a hand basket people... we go through this same anal exam every year... Brett saying... "I don't wanna be one of those guys that played one year too many." Yadda yadda effin' yadda already!


As to Last season's interceptions to TD's ratio...
Bite me!

As Packer fans we know full effin well Brett was on his 5th Running back (Green, Davenport, Fisher, and Gado... all injured) Walker and Franks went down early... Walker for the season! He ended the season throwing to Driver, Lee, Chatman, Gardner and Thurman. Bite me!

All that with Wahl and Flannigan and Rivera gone. (Flanny due to injury but that still counts) It just floors me that they lumped Brett into that mix of players.

I mean... seriously... who reads defense's better than Brett Favre?
Nobody

Who scrambles better than Brett... seriously... don't give me no Michael Vick crap... dude looks to run the ball coming out of the tunnel and you know it... I guess I should word this... who has the best escapability?
Brett does... the dude has butter hips when he's scrambling and here's a little secret we all know and thankfully the rest of the league hasn't learned... Brett is more accurate when he's on the move.

Why the Hell don't they roll his ass out more???


Lastly... I will admit... Brett does need to play smarter. Hey I liked Sherm but he had No discipline over Brett. Truth be known... Holmgren barely had it.

Hopefully, McCarthy will be able to reason with Brett to "stick to" the system a bit more and Not try to win every game with a single throw.

Brett Favre's biggest enemy has always been Brett Favre.

All that said... Brett aint no Fat Elvis!

THE PACKER PUNDIT
By Pat Stuckey 5/11/2006

[Fosco33]

Good stuff, Woody.

[woodbuck27]

Good stuff, Woody.

:lol: Sometimes you find :arrow: the damn'dest things when your looking for something else. :shock:

[woodbuck27]

Favre led the Packers to these ** 4th Quarter Comebacks since 2001:

D E T A I L S

The 2002 Season There were three **.

1. Sunday, September 8, 2002 - Packers 37 Falcons 34.

posted 09/08/2002

Ryan Longwell's 34-yard field goal with 5:15 left in overtime gave Green Bay a 37-34 victory over the Atlanta Falcons on a steamy Sunday at Lambeau Field.

Atlanta's Jay Feely sent the game into overtime with a 52-yard field goal with five seconds left in regulation. That capped a six-play, 35-yard drive that followed William Henderson's dive into the end zone on fourth-and-inches with 1:10 left that had given Green Bay a 34-31 lead.

The Packers avenged their only home loss last year behind Brett Favre, who completed 25-of-36 passes for 284 yards and two touchdowns, and Ahman Green, who rushed 27 times for 155 yards.

Henderson was stuffed at the line but, still on top of bodies, he lunged the ball past the plane. Following a review of several minutes, referee Ron Winter said: "There is no indisputable evidence to change the call."

Henderson's TD capped a 14-play, 80-yard drive that began after Warrick Dunn's second TD, a 2-yard scamper with eight minutes left that put Atlanta ahead 31-27.



2. Sunday, September 29, 2002 - Packers 17 Panthers 14

posted 09/29/2002

Ten years and two days after becoming Green Bay's starting quarterback, Favre found Donald Driver for a 22-yard touchdown with 4:10 left, leading the Packers to a 17-14 victory against the Carolina Panthers.

Shayne Graham, signed by the Panthers two days ago to bolster their kicking game, missed a 24-yard field goal with 13 seconds left that would have tied the game.


3. Sunday, December 8, 2002 - Packers 26 Vikings 22

posted 12/08/2002

For all but the final few minutes, the Minnesota Vikings looked like they were the ones accustomed to freezing conditions and not the Green Bay Packers. But Tony Fisher's 14-yard touchdown run with 1:06 left gave Green Bay its first lead of the game and a 26-22 victory over the Vikings on Sunday night.

The Packers never led until Fisher's game-winning TD on first-and-10 from the 14.

Green Bay got the ball at its 15 with 4:32 left. An interception by Jack Brewer with 2:12 left was negated by Corey Chavous' pass interference on Donald Driver, giving Green Bay the ball at the Minnesota 25.

After Favre picked up a first down with an 8-yard scramble on third-and-7, Fisher scored on the next play.

Fisher, a rookie free agent from Notre Dame who was making his first career start in place of Ahman Green (knee), finished with a career-high 96 yards on 25 carries.

Robert Ferguson also set career highs with six receptions for 105 yards and the first two-touchdown game of his career.

His 40-yard score pulled Green Bay to 22-20 with 10:48 left.



The 2003 Season There was one **.

4. Sunday, November 16, 2003 - Packers 20 Buc's 13. Note: Teams were tied in the 4th quarter.

posted 11/16/2003

Green Bay had Tampa Bay 's once-vaunted defense on the verge of collapse, so coach Mike Sherman was determined to finish them off.

Facing fourth-and-1 from the Buccaneers 16 in a tie game, the Packers sent Najeh Davenport barreling up the middle for 5 yards instead of going for a go-ahead field goal. Three plays later, Ahman Green scored from the 1 to finish a 98-yard march that gave the Packers a 20-13 victory.

"It was such a beautiful drive, I just hated to let it go to a kicker. I thought we had to finish it off," Sherman said.

"I think everyone, including some of our players, expected us to kick a field goal," quarterback Brett Favre added. "But we just wanted to make a statement at that point, and I think we did."

Playing with a broken right thumb and shrugging off five years of futility at Raymond James Stadium, Favre fueled the nearly 10-minute winning drive with a 23-yard completion to Robert Ferguson on third-and-9 from the Green Bay 3.


The 2004 Season There were four **.

5. Sunday Nov. 14, 2004 - Packers 34 Vikings 31

AP Story: Favre Leads Packers Past Vikings 34-31

posted 11/14/2004

Shootouts usually come down to who has the ball at the end. This one came down to who had it at the bottom.

Minnesota's Derek Ross and Green Bay's Ben Steele, who had been cut by the Vikings in training camp, each claimed ownership of Robert Ferguson's fumble at midfield in the closing minutes.

The officials eventually ruled Green Bay had possession, and the Packers drove for Ryan Longwell's 33-yard field goal as time expired for a 34-31 victory, their fourth straight.

Both Brett Favre and Daunte Culpepper threw four touchdown passes without an interception. It was Favre's 18th game with four or more TD tosses, second only to Dan Marino's 21.



6. Sunday Nov.21, 2004 - Packers 16 Texans 13

Favre Leads Packers To Victory Over Texans

posted 11/21/2004

Brett Favre sat silently as his Green Bay teammates anxiously chatted during halftime.

Trailing by 10 points and down to only one healthy tailback, the Packers were desperately searching for an offensive spark. They found the solution in a familiar place.

"I just listened because I knew what we needed to do," Favre said. "And the talk wasn't going to get it done."

Favre led the Pack all the way back in the fourth quarter and Ryan Longwell kicked a 46-yard field goal as time expired, sending the Packers to their fifth straight win, 16-13 over the Houston Texans.

Favre completed 6 of 7 passes for 42 yards on the final drive -- the only incompletion came when he spiked the ball to stop the clock -- to complete Green Bay's rally from a 10-point deficit in the final quarter.

He finished 33 of 50 for 383 yards with two interceptions and a touchdown to Houston native Donald Driver in the fourth period. Driver had quite a homecoming, catching 10 passes for 148 yards.

Favre "gives you confidence that he is going to do something special in those situations," Packers coach Mike Sherman said. "To be able to rely on his leadership and abilities at those times gives us an opportunity to win a game like this."



7. Sunday Dec. 12, 2004 - Packers 16 Lions 13

posted 12/12/2004

There are still two sure things in Green Bay: Ryan Longwell inside 40 yards and Brett Favre beating the Detroit Lions at home.

The Packers only led for 2 seconds, but that was enough to keep their stranglehold over the Lions, who haven't won in Wisconsin since 1991, the year before Favre's arrival.

Longwell's 23-yard field goal gave Green Bay a 16-13 victory against the Lions and lifted the Packers (8-5) into first place in the NFC North by a game over Minnesota, which lost at home to Seattle.

It was Longwell's third game-winner in five weeks and his 43rd consecutive conversion from 40 yards in.


Favre always has an answer for the Lions.

He led Green Bay back from a 13-0 halftime deficit with four scoring drives, including a 90-yarder into the flag-whipping wind for the Packers' only touchdown after Ahman Green's 79-yard TD catch was negated by a debatable holding call on rookie center Scott Wells.

Favre, who is 14-0 at home against the Lions, completed only 3 of 15 passes for 28 yards in the first half but he was an amazing 16-for-21 in the swirling winds for 160 yards and a touchdown in the second half.

"Even with no defense out there, it (would have been) difficult to complete passes," Favre said.

Snow flurries dampened the field into what Longwell called a "swampy mess" and swirling winds with gusts up to 35 mph wreaked havoc on passes, punts and long snaps and caused a slew of drops.

"There's never anything routine about a field goal here, and today there was nothing routine about an extra point," said Longwell, who slipped on the opening kickoff and left a three-foot skid mark on his game-tying, 28-yard field goal early in the fourth quarter.

"The wind was blowing harder than I've ever seen it here."

Lions rookie receiver Roy Williams said he thought he had a catch on the sideline once and as he went to cradle the ball "the wind took it like a Tim Wakefield knuckleball."

The Lions wasted a prime chance to get into the playoff picture in the muddled NFC, falling to 5-8.

Their quarterback, Joey Harrington, completed only 5 of 22 passes for 47 yards as the Lions relied on rookie running back Kevin Jones, who rushed 33 times for 156 yards and a touchdown.

The Packers hadn't held an opponent to so few completions since Oct. 29, 1978, against Tampa Bay.

"We haven't scored an offensive touchdown in the second half the last five weeks. That is just mind-boggling," Williams said. "We just aren't effective, it makes no sense."

Longwell's game-winner capped a 10-play, 37-yard drive after the Packers got the ball back at the Detroit 42 with 3:27 left and the wind at their backs.

The Packers had a terrible first half. Favre entered the game needing 28 yards to tie Dan Marino's NFL record of 13 consecutive 3,000-yard seasons, and he had exactly that amount at halftime.

Jason Hanson's 31-yard field goal was the only scoring either team managed in the first quarter.

Jones made it 10-0 when he deked safety Darren Sharper, slipped behind center Dominic Raiola and shook off Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila on his way to scoring the first rushing touchdown Green Bay had allowed in 22 quarters.

Hanson added a 36-yard field goal into the wind for a 13-0 halftime lead.

The game turned after a halftime tirade by Sherman.

Longwell's 36-yard field goal made it 13-3. After Green's 79-yard touchdown catch-and-run was negated by head linesman Paul Weidner's debatable holding call on Wells, the Packers were pushed back to their 13.

Favre then drove the Packers downfield against the wind, capping the drive with a 23-yard touchdown toss to Donald Driver that made it 13-10 late in the third quarter.



8. Friday Dec. 24, 2004 - Packers 34 Vikings 31

posted 12/24/2004

Facing a seven-point deficit midway through the fourth quarter after one of his familiar, costly mistakes, Brett Favre brought Green Bay back again.

For a Packers team that lost four of its first five games this season, this probably didn't seem like all that much trouble.

Favre guided a 76-yard drive to set up Ryan Longwell 's game-ending 29-yard field goal, lifting the Packers to a 34-31 victory over the Minnesota Vikings -- and clinching a third straight NFC North crown.

"Never give up. That's been this team's M.O. all season," Favre said, "because we could've quit a long time ago."


So Polaris I make that . . . 8 fourth quarter comebacks, that we saw Brett Favre engineer as OUR QB. . . since 2001.

That is a long ways from none.

Incidently in the game last year when we defeated the Detroit Lions 16 - 13 in O.T. the Packers trailed 13 - 10 after three quarters and that is just one more fourth quarter comeback with Brett Favre as OUR QB.

Now . . . that is 9 fourth quarter comebacks since 2001, Polaris.

That is better than two per season since 2001.

[4and12to12and4]

WBuck, thank you for these GREAT POSTS. I enjoyed reading each and every one of them, as they remind me of how GREAT our QB is in GB. It amazes me how after just one losing season in Brett's storied career how anyone who "claims" to be a Packer fan could even post something like Polaris did. Especially given all the injuries we had, not to mention the merry-go-round o-line last year.

There is no other QB in the history of the game that can boast so many winning years, and division championships that Brett has put together over the past decade and (almost) a half. I can understand him taking heat from the likes of wannabes like Sassyberry, but from a proclaimed packer fan?

By the way, Polaris, according to your "insight" regarding Brett's "obvious" decline these past few years, you are suggesting that you are a better talent scout than both TT and MM, considering that they both were very happy about his return. And if you had been paying attention to any of the OTA reports, they have all stated that Brett doesn't seem to have lost a bit in terms of arm strength.

Last year, Brett came into camp in better shape than he had been in since 2001 and hadn't lost anything in terms of arm strength, so there is nothing at all to evidence he was washed up. If you watched any of the games I watched, you would have seen a guy who carved up defenses game after game, (he put up great offensive numbers in yards totaled against a stingy Bear's defense) but came up short in the red zone over and over again, which was the only difference from years past. So, the question is, was that because of him or the team around him. If you blame him, then you have to back it up with sound reasoning. Obviously, it didn't have to do with a lack of ability, or he wouldn't have been able to make all the throws he did on the drives in the first place. So, then what was it? It makes sense that it would have to do with a lack of weapons to go to, in that, once a team has less field to work with, it is harder for average to below average receivers to get open. If you've ever played this sport, you would know this.

If it weren't for Brett keeping us in most of those games, we would've lost most of them by 10 points or more. Even though we lost 12 games, BRETT is the one who made the games watchable, because at least we had a shot BECAUSE OF HIS ABILITY. That is why Sherman caught so much hell for not coaching him, because he didn't want to reign him in. He knew that his gunslinging was about all we had because of the injuries decimating our team.

Sometimes I wonder if some of these people who bitch about Favre and claim he has nothing left even watched one game last season (or maybe they did watch one, the Baltimore game :cool: ).

Anyways, thianks again WBuck for the trip to memory lane. Brett Favre should go down as the greatest overall QB in the history of the game.

[MJZiggy]

The right time for Brett to retire will be when he decides it's time to go. He will not be one of those guys who hangs on until he needs a walker to get out of the pocket. He will know when he no longer can do it and he will know before any of us do. There are no stats that will say yes or no, it will just be time. And if he does hang around longer than his legs do, so what? He gave us a whole lot of wonderful years. He can play an extra if he wants.

[4and12to12and4]

The right time for Brett to retire will be when he decides it's time to go. He will not be one of those guys who hangs on until he needs a walker to get out of the pocket. He will know when he no longer can do it and he will know before any of us do. There are no stats that will say yes or no, it will just be time. And if he does hang around longer than his legs do, so what? He gave us a whole lot of wonderful years. He can play an extra if he wants.

Well said.

[woodbuck27]

4and12to12and4.

Any Packer fan has to know what Brett Favre is all about, and as a competitor and spirited football player there are few today held in higher esteem, by not just Packer fans but anyone who understands football.

Time after time we have seen him make incredible drives to give us 'the W' in the end. We've seen him get the cork hammered out of him and he'll release the ball looking downfield after that hit to see if the pass was caught. He'll block for the run and make tackles along the sidelines. He's often the first to a teammate to celebrate a nice catch. He's candid or humorous, an in your face football player.

Brett Favre is all about excitement and the ability to give on the field and off. He's a real beauty and as Packer fans he's been OUR star for alot longer than obviously some Packer fans deserved. That is indeed sad.

[4and12to12and4]

Here is a topic started by JerseyCheese in Packerchatters forum. I thought it would give Mr. Polaroid an opinion other than ours here at rats as to why Brett had "ONE" off year and should still be feared. Here goes:


I went out to the closest book store and bought a HUGE NFL Book with analysis, position grades, depth charts, rosters, draft picks, and schedules. It had some good things as well as some bad things written about the Packers. It is very long, but worth the reading. Here it is!

"Brett Favre gets the last laugh like a hyena."

"Finding their fits"
Packers RB Samkon Gado- Green Bay is going with the Broncos-style running game, which works well with one-cut runners. Gado is a one-cut back who should fit perfectly in the scheme. Ahman Green's skills don't fit as well

"Rookies of Impact"
The rookie linebacker most likely to make a quick impact this year is A.J. Hawk of the Packers. No first-year player is more NFL ready than Hawk, who has the abilities and intangibles to improve the Green Bay defense quickly. His new teammate, linebacker Abdul Hodge, also can help transform the Packers' defense.

"Top 100 Rankings: Fantasy Source experts project the top performers for 2006"
#45 Donald Driver
#53 Ahman Green

"Watch out for these Sleepers!"
Packers- Everyone wants to write them off, but writing off Brett Favre never is wise. Understand this about Favre; If the players around him a capable, he will not make the kinds of ill-advised throws he made a year ago. Favre took unwise risks because that was the only way for him to try to keep his team in games. The Packers are healthier this year, and they've added some good young players. They aren't done yet.

[Dune]

MY thoughts on Brett Farve

I have never seen a QB that wanted to win more than Brett Farve.
His energy and emotion and the will to win surpases and other QB and maybe any other player i have ever seen play football.

But maybe his strongest attribute is he is not afraid to lose.
When GB is behind late in the game hecould throw a bunch of 5 yard passes that would make his stats look good. He instead takes the chances
he needs to take in order to have a chance to win the game. He does not care what the sports writers are going to say about his stats after the game.

With a good team around him there is no better QB.

But with a poor offensive team with no weapons, and a deteriating offensive line like he had last year he still tries to do what it takes to win but his teamates aren't making the plays and he does not have the time to throw therefore all the interceptions.

His team will still be better with him but his stats will suffer in this environment.

[MJZiggy]

Nicely put, Dune. Welcome to the forum.

[woodbuck27]

MY thoughts on Brett favre

I have never seen a QB that wanted to win more than Brett favre.
His energy and emotion and the will to win surpases and other QB and maybe any other player i have ever seen play football.

But maybe his strongest attribute is he is not afraid to lose.
When GB is behind late in the game hecould throw a bunch of 5 yard passes that would make his stats look good. He instead takes the chances
he needs to take in order to have a chance to win the game. He does not care what the sports writers are going to say about his stats after the game.

With a good team around him there is no better QB.

But with a poor offensive team with no weapons, and a deteriating offensive line like he had last year he still tries to do what it takes to win but his teamates aren't making the plays and he does not have the time to throw therefore all the interceptions.

His team will still be better with him but his stats will suffer in this environment.

How come?

Fans like you Dune, see this so fairly (clearly) and then there are the others or those fans that only point to the results.

Your first post here. Welcome aboard mate. This is a good place to grow in. Post often.

[MTPackerfan]

As my first post on this forum, I would like to thank woodbucky for his great and informative posts, especially on this subject. Great information about Brett and his last few seasons. He truely is a great QB. I am one of the Packer faithful who was glad to see him return and I hope for a couple of more years also.

[MJZiggy]

Welcome to the forum, MTPackerfan. Agreed absolutely. Four more years!!

[woodbuck27]

Welcome to the forum, MTPackerfan. Agreed absolutely. Four more years!!

His retirement at 40 year's of age is negotiable. :mrgreen:

[MJZiggy]

You think 42, Buck?

[woodbuck27]

You think 42, Buck?

Sure!

Why allow that George Blanda fella get the recognition for the oldest player I recall. Favre's going for them all. :mrgreen:

[MJZiggy]

Ya know, thinking about it honestly, he could actually stink up the field for a few of those years (not that he will!!) and still break every record around. Interesting thought.

[woodbuck27]

Ya know, thinking about it honestly, he could actually stink up the field for a few of those years (not that he will!!) and still break every record around. Interesting thought.

Ziggy.

I feel alot depends on how we do this season. He has to believe in the fortunes of the team and enjoy playing and feel he contributes to a positive result.

The records now just come with playing and he's all about winning with the team - not records.