(Non-knee jerk) I don't think MM should call the plays

[mission]

I love him as our coach, our leader, etc ... I'm very happy with MM in general...

But I think we need an offensive coordinator (not a practice lackey with a business card)... MM can work on schemes and formations all week (he likes to think a lot) but we need someone else making decisions from play to play.

I think he's a mediocre play caller at best. Every game we talk about it and every game we seem to isolate it to that specific game.

It's a trend and it seems like luck when it isn't brought up in conversation. So, just like players have strengths and weaknesses, I'm no longer saying it's fluke. It's just not one of his strengths.

Disagree?

[PackerTimer]

I love him as our coach, our leader, etc ... I'm very happy with MM in general...

But I think we need an offensive coordinator (not a practice lackey with a business card)... MM can work on schemes and formations all week (he likes to think a lot) but we need someone else making decisions from play to play.

I think he's a mediocre play caller at best. Every game we talk about it and every game we seem to isolate it to that specific game.

It's a trend and it seems like luck when it isn't brought up in conversation. So, just like players have strengths and weaknesses, I'm no longer saying it's fluke. It's just not one of his strengths.

Disagree?

This is tough me for me. It's hard to evaluate MM's playcalling because the exectuion (the O-Line play in particular) has been abysmal. I'm starting think the execution hasn't been there more so than the playcalling.

There are so many examples of this. Jones drop in the red zone last week, Jennings had a huge drop at the end of the first half, Jackson with a drop that led to a pick, the offensive line blocking has been terrible on both run and pass play.

[mission]

Had to? :huh:

[channtheman]

Totally agree with you. McCarthy has played scared in almost every close game to the point where if the other team doesn't hand us the win we will lose. Even in game we should blow the other team out, he somehow manages to make them nailbiters.

[cheesner]

Totally agree with you. McCarthy has played scared in almost every close game to the point where if the other team doesn't hand us the win we will lose. Even in game we should blow the other team out, he somehow manages to make them nailbiters.
Played scared?

He called a pass on a 4th down play to a player that has never caught a pass in an NFL game before. You think he is scared? What games are you watching? The Packers were on the aggressive side the last few series.

[mission]

Totally agree with you. McCarthy has played scared in almost every close game to the point where if the other team doesn't hand us the win we will lose. Even in game we should blow the other team out, he somehow manages to make them nailbiters.
Played scared?

He called a pass on a 4th down play to a player that has never caught a pass in an NFL game before. You think he is scared? What games are you watching? The Packers were on the aggressive side the last few series.

"Playing" aside, we're referring to his lack of killer instinct and his ability to finish games.

First quarter/half tom foolery is one thing, but actually doing that shit late in the game or just playing with a "run up the score mentality" are two very different things.

It seems like MM likes to have his couple trickeryish plays in the first half (that he's spent all week scheming up all evil-genius-like), they dont work and then he goes back to "whatever" when there's more pressure.

He hasn't showed any sign of this changing either.

We have the makings of a very explosive, pass 60/40 kind of team but MM isn't scheming like that. He wants to be a run team ... he's like a tranvestite of football coaches... he has some identity issues.

[Pacopete4]

Totally agree with you. McCarthy has played scared in almost every close game to the point where if the other team doesn't hand us the win we will lose. Even in game we should blow the other team out, he somehow manages to make them nailbiters.
Played scared?

He called a pass on a 4th down play to a player that has never caught a pass in an NFL game before. You think he is scared? What games are you watching? The Packers were on the aggressive side the last few series.

"Playing" aside, we're referring to his lack of killer instinct and his ability to finish games.

First quarter/half tom foolery is one thing, but actually doing that shit late in the game or just playing with a "run up the score mentality" are two very different things.

It seems like MM likes to have his couple trickeryish plays in the first half (that he's spent all week scheming up all evil-genius-like), they dont work and then he goes back to "whatever" when there's more pressure.

He hasn't showed any sign of this changing either.

We have the makings of a very explosive, pass 60/40 kind of team but MM isn't scheming like that. He wants to be a run team ... he's like a tranvestite of football coaches... he has some identity issues.



haha that is just too funny.. i love it

[channtheman]

Totally agree with you. McCarthy has played scared in almost every close game to the point where if the other team doesn't hand us the win we will lose. Even in game we should blow the other team out, he somehow manages to make them nailbiters.
Played scared?

He called a pass on a 4th down play to a player that has never caught a pass in an NFL game before. You think he is scared? What games are you watching? The Packers were on the aggressive side the last few series.

When it mattered the most today he called a screen pass to Jackson on 3rd and 10. I also don't consider throwing the ball to someone who has never caught a pass smart. (Not saying you do) On 4th and 1, then you call the 3 yard pass to Jackson. McCarthy doesn't make good decisions and him playing scared at the end of close games is becoming a problem.

[gbgary]

I love him as our coach, our leader, etc ... I'm very happy with MM in general...

But I think we need an offensive coordinator (not a practice lackey with a business card)... MM can work on schemes and formations all week (he likes to think a lot) but we need someone else making decisions from play to play.

I think he's a mediocre play caller at best. Every game we talk about it and every game we seem to isolate it to that specific game.

It's a trend and it seems like luck when it isn't brought up in conversation. So, just like players have strengths and weaknesses, I'm no longer saying it's fluke. It's just not one of his strengths.

Disagree?


i said the same thing in the game thread on oct 12. they need to get a true west-coast offensive coordinator and let him call the plays. i've never been a fan of his play calling.

[cpk1994]

I disagree entirely. If the players excecute just a couple of plays better(the screen pass for one), the Packers win and every talks about how McCarthy called a great game. Also, to say that McCarthy calls the game scared is pure idoicy. The 4th an 1 call has been mentioned as an example, The main reason its idiotic is the fact that its really easy to say he "calls scared" in hindsight becuase the play he did call didn't quite work out. That screen pass has worked in the past and will in the future. IT didn't work today. Oh well, Thats football.
What is earie is that I remember having these conversations about some guy named Holmgren. He seemed to do really well around these parts.

[Merlin]

McCarthy has dialed up some real stinkers in his short stint as a head coach. Although there were a lot of mistakes offensively. Rodgers had several misfires out there, mostly because he was afraid he was going to get killed after starting the game on the first play on his ass. It took some time for him to calm down after that, and who could blame the guy? There were some dropped balls and some missed blocks. I don't know a lot about Philben (sp?) and you sure don't hear a lot from him. Is there a reason we have an offensive coordinator? It's obvious the offense is McCarthy's and the play calling wasn't very creative at all, it usually never is. They usually execute better though. Give TN some credit, they played a good game defensively.

[MadtownPacker]

I've criticized M3 for not maximizing the offense's passing potential but today he called a good game. The players on the field just didn't execute. The plays looked like they where there to me. The timing was just off. Maybe it was the week off who knows but things just didn't look synchronized out there. Early this week I called for an aggressive game plan with shots down the field to put up points early. That's what the Pack tried to do but the big plays didn't happen today. I don't think the Titans DBs had much to do with it either.

Can't say a coach who went for it 2X on 4th down didn't play for the win.

[Tarlam!]

Good discusssion.

This, I feel, is where we miss the last QB the most. It was well documented that M3 designed plays last season with different options. Favre would call the play and change it accordingly at the line if he didn't like the look the defense was showing.

Not sure if we have that additional depth yet with A-Rod. He started his 8th NFL yesterday. It would be a lot to expect of him.

[The Gunshooter]

I've criticized M3 for not maximizing the offense's passing potential but today he called a good game. The players on the field just didn't execute. The plays looked like they where there to me. The timing was just off. Maybe it was the week off who knows but things just didn't look synchronized out there. Early this week I called for an aggressive game plan with shots down the field to put up points early. That's what the Pack tried to do but the big plays didn't happen today. I don't think the Titans DBs had much to do with it either.

Can't say a coach who went for it 2X on 4th down didn't play for the win.

Rodgers has not been practicing much and that is a big reason they were out of sync. They appeared to me to be the better team yesterday but they just could not take advantage of their opportunities. They lost mainly because Rodgers made too many mistakes. He cost them 13 points.

As far as MM is concerned it's hard to think on your feet and I don't see GB doing it well whether it's the players or the coaches. MM is not maximizing their talent. GB should be 6-2 right now even with all the injuries.

On the first fourth down GB was going to run right. That was very predictible considering the game plan was obviously to run at Kearse and that's how they got across midfield in the first place. TN overloaded that side and forced AR to call timeout. At that point I punt because momentum and the element of suprise is gone. Everyone knew they had to throw then. The correct call in the first place would of been to run left. You can't run the same way over and over against a team like TN. A good coach will adjust and you will be screwed.

Then MM broke a cardinal rule at the end of regulation when he played for the tie on the road.

Stuff like that adds up to 4-4.

[MJZiggy]

Dude, you're making wist sound positively upbeat.

Tar, last I heard, they didn't dumb down the offense at all for Rodgers. He should have the same choices Favre had last year but he likey doesn't exercise as many of them.

[Patler]

They lost mainly because Rodgers made too many mistakes. He cost them 13 points.


Only if you expect him to be flawless on every single play, which is an unreasonable standard for any player, and not one that is ever brought up for anyone except QBs.

I don't know where your 13 points come from, the two turnovers lead to only 3; so I assume your other 10 come from incompletions he threw.

You could just as easily say that Jennings made too many mistakes and cost the Packers 14 points. Per the announcers, he did not come out of his move hard, and slowed up on the deep pass in the first half that was barely overthrown. On the last drive he didn't fight hard enough through a brief, weak pass interference grab on his arm and didn't catch a perfectly thrown pass. It was against his body anyway, and could have been held with a good, not even great, catch.

If you apply the same standards to Jennings as you do to Rodgers, you can blame him for the loss. Truth is, there is a lot of "blame" to be shared among the players and the coaches in most losses, and certainly in this one.

[The Gunshooter]

They lost mainly because Rodgers made too many mistakes. He cost them 13 points.


Only if you expect him to be flawless on every single play, which is an unreasonable standard for any player, and not one that is ever brought up for anyone except QBs.

I don't know where your 13 points come from, the two turnovers lead to only 3; so I assume your other 10 come from incompletions he threw.

You could just as easily say that Jennings made too many mistakes and cost the Packers 14 points. Per the announcers, he did not come out of his move hard, and slowed up on the deep pass in the first half that was barely overthrown. On the last drive he didn't fight hard enough through a brief, weak pass interference grab on his arm and didn't catch a perfectly thrown pass. It was against his body anyway, and could have been held with a good, not even great, catch.

If you apply the same standards to Jennings as you do to Rodgers, you can blame him for the loss. Truth is, there is a lot of "blame" to be shared among the players and the coaches in most losses, and certainly in this one.

The only way GB can win is if Rodgers is perfect. They just are not a good team. They are more like mediocre under achievers and they can forget the playoffs until they learn to quit taking turns with the mental errors.

There is a lot of blame to go around but Rodgers' mistakes were the most crucial.

Jenning was running a deep button hook and when he saw no one was behind him he took off. He is a glider so maybe he looks like he isn't running full speed but he is. Rodgers needs to learn to take his time and put air under that pass and it is a easy TD.

He held the ball too long and didn't see the guy right in front of him and failed to protect the ball. That's 3.

The momentum killing interception cost at least 3. That's 13.

I saw other mistakes from him also. He made some plays but he has to play better.

Rodgers admitted the loss was on him.

[Patler]

Rodgers admitted the loss was on him.

Of course he did, because it is the right thing to say.

But the other Packers also accepted blame, including Jennings who said that he felt there was interference on the long pass at the end of the game, but that he still should have caught it.


“I still have to make that play, regardless of whatever the situation is,” Jennings said. “I thought it was pass interference, but I was more upset that I didn’t still come down with the ball. That’s the kind of play you have to make. Crucial situation, I’ve got to make that play.”

The first long pass to Jennings was barely over thrown. It was on a perfect line to Jennings. Its hard to criticize Rodgers on a long pass that was that close to being completed. And if Jennings hesitated or slowed at all you can't blame Rodgers at all. To say Rodgers cost them a TD on that is expecting way too much from any QB.

[Fritz]

If Obama loses Wisconsin tomorrow, I blame Aaron Rodgers.

[Pacopete4]

ya Rodgers blew in this game at various points but I'm ok with that.. bad plays are going to happen.. what I'm not ok with is that he still had the ball in his hands in a tie game with time dwindling and he failed to get us points.... again... starting to become a trend and im getting sick of it


i dont caaaaaaare how pretty his stats are... i want him to dig in and gets us some fuckin points when this team needs it.. i dont care if other players break down, i want him to be the rock of this team and so far, he hasnt been... hes just another player

[Harlan Huckleby]

If Obama loses Wisconsin tomorrow, I blame Aaron Rodgers.


If Obama wins, I blame Aaron Rodgers.

[PackerBlues]

As far as M3's playcalling goes, everytime I see him make a call that I may think of as kinda stupid, I go back to the game against SanDiego last season. Anyone remember that stupidity? In the red zone, on the goal line, M3 calls for a 5 WR set, no RB, nobody in the backfield at all. ..............on 4'th down!!!

Sorry, but to me, that was fuckin crazy. The game was on the line, and the only reason that the game was not lost in the end, was because special teams made a play on a fumble during a kickoff. Pure dumb luck won that game, not M3's playcalling.

At 4-4 on the season at the midway point, M3 hasn't shown me shit yet. As far as I am concerned, his job should be on the line.

[GoPackGo]

Why aren't we seeing more Ryan Grant around the goalline-
he's back and running hard, give the guy a chance to score McCarthy

[channtheman]

I think the biggest problem with McCarthy is that he is WAY too predictable. On first and goal he always seems to run out of the running package. No surprise there. Where is the play action QB roll out? Why not give Rodgers an option to run, pass, or throw it away? McCarthy is a very predictable play caller, especially down at the goal line. He always seems to run on 1st down at the goal line. Then the next 2 plays are passes and everyone knows they are passes because we line up in our passing formation leaving absolutely no guessing for the opposing defense.

Answer this for me anyone, if I can correctly call pass or run on almost every offensive play for the Packers, then do you think that a defense who has been studying that offense all week will have any trouble at all?

[The Gunshooter]

Rodgers admitted the loss was on him.

Of course he did, because it is the right thing to say.

But the other Packers also accepted blame, including Jennings who said that he felt there was interference on the long pass at the end of the game, but that he still should have caught it.


“I still have to make that play, regardless of whatever the situation is,” Jennings said. “I thought it was pass interference, but I was more upset that I didn’t still come down with the ball. That’s the kind of play you have to make. Crucial situation, I’ve got to make that play.”

The first long pass to Jennings was barely over thrown. It was on a perfect line to Jennings. Its hard to criticize Rodgers on a long pass that was that close to being completed. And if Jennings hesitated or slowed at all you can't blame Rodgers at all. To say Rodgers cost them a TD on that is expecting way too much from any QB.

You don't get it do you? On passes over the shoulder you want arc on the ball so it drops in, like shooting free throws. For example, Finley ran a bad route but the way Rodgers threw it he had almost no chance. He throws a pretty spiral but he needs to figure out how to put some touch on his passes when called for.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What the coach said:


Doesn't agree with Jermichael Finley's comment that the throw shouldn't have been to his back shoulder. Finley had a poor release, was too high. Practice that play all the time.

[Patler]

Rodgers admitted the loss was on him.

Of course he did, because it is the right thing to say.

But the other Packers also accepted blame, including Jennings who said that he felt there was interference on the long pass at the end of the game, but that he still should have caught it.


“I still have to make that play, regardless of whatever the situation is,” Jennings said. “I thought it was pass interference, but I was more upset that I didn’t still come down with the ball. That’s the kind of play you have to make. Crucial situation, I’ve got to make that play.”

The first long pass to Jennings was barely over thrown. It was on a perfect line to Jennings. Its hard to criticize Rodgers on a long pass that was that close to being completed. And if Jennings hesitated or slowed at all you can't blame Rodgers at all. To say Rodgers cost them a TD on that is expecting way too much from any QB.

You don't get it do you? On passes over the shoulder you want arc on the ball so it drops in, like shooting free throws. For example, Finley ran a bad route but the way Rodgers threw it he had almost no chance. He throws a pretty spiral but he needs to figure out how to put some touch on his passes when called for.

Oh, believe me, I get it perfectly well, and Rodgers has shown good touch on a lot his throws this year, including a short one to Driver(?) yesterday that he sort of just floated out to the right for Driver to catch up to.

The throw to Finley is a back shoulder throw that the receiver is supposed to stop and turn back for. It causes the DB to carry on past him in most situations. The throw itself creates separation for the receiver. Put too much air under that and the DB has time to recover.

Both deep throws to Jennings had plenty enough air under them. The second was spot on perfect where only Jennings could get it. The first was in the air for just over 50 yards from where Rodgers threw it, and they barely missed. I still have it on Tivo, and I agree with Goose, it looks like Jennings was not really expecting it. I'm not sure that he slowed down, but he almost acted surprised that it was there, and didn't react the best to it. That just barely missed. It was a good enough throw at that distance. Heck completion rates for all QBs on passes in the air for 40+ yards are not all that high.

[mission]

Uh :?:

[Pacopete4]

Uh :?:


that about sums it up.. haha

[mission]

bump

[SkinBasket]

I'll need another game of Mike forgetting we can throw the football before I discount the offense he was calling in the preseason.

[MJZiggy]

I'll keep him. Third and one and he throws a bomb for a touchdown. And a 2-pt conversion.

[mission]

I'll keep him. Third and one and he throws a bomb for a touchdown. And a 2-pt conversion.

Ya I give him another week :wink: :lol:

[gbgary]

i still feel the same way about his play calling...hate it. he took a phone call from Bart Starr just before the third and one game winner. :D

[Partial]

bump

[Gunakor]

Dom's playcalling on the other side of the ball wasn't a whole lot better today either.

But, as far as MM goes, who would you trust calling the plays if it isn't him? Philbin?

[Partial]

Dom's playcalling on the other side of the ball wasn't a whole lot better today either.

But, as far as MM goes, who would you trust calling the plays if it isn't him? Philbin?

No opinion I don't have the knowledge to make a statement like that. I don't care for his playcalling, I can tell you that, at least.

[MOBB DEEP]

lmao at this bump

[pbmax]

Blaming play calling, the first refuge of the frustrated fan.

[bobblehead]

They lost mainly because Rodgers made too many mistakes. He cost them 13 points.


Only if you expect him to be flawless on every single play, which is an unreasonable standard for any player, and not one that is ever brought up for anyone except QBs.

I don't know where your 13 points come from, the two turnovers lead to only 3; so I assume your other 10 come from incompletions he threw.

You could just as easily say that Jennings made too many mistakes and cost the Packers 14 points. Per the announcers, he did not come out of his move hard, and slowed up on the deep pass in the first half that was barely overthrown. On the last drive he didn't fight hard enough through a brief, weak pass interference grab on his arm and didn't catch a perfectly thrown pass. It was against his body anyway, and could have been held with a good, not even great, catch.

If you apply the same standards to Jennings as you do to Rodgers, you can blame him for the loss. Truth is, there is a lot of "blame" to be shared among the players and the coaches in most losses, and certainly in this one.

The only way GB can win is if Rodgers is perfect. They just are not a good team. They are more like mediocre under achievers and they can forget the playoffs until they learn to quit taking turns with the mental errors.

There is a lot of blame to go around but Rodgers' mistakes were the most crucial.

Jenning was running a deep button hook and when he saw no one was behind him he took off. He is a glider so maybe he looks like he isn't running full speed but he is. Rodgers needs to learn to take his time and put air under that pass and it is a easy TD.

He held the ball too long and didn't see the guy right in front of him and failed to protect the ball. That's 3.

The momentum killing interception cost at least 3. That's 13.

I saw other mistakes from him also. He made some plays but he has to play better.

Rodgers admitted the loss was on him.

I'm confused :cnf:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Dates, my politically misguided brother, dates.

[mission]

glad to see this bumped... nothing's changed offensively from a coaching standpoint

[retailguy]

Blaming play calling, the first refuge of the frustrated fan.

Do you like the play calling? If so, how is it geared towards capitalizing on our strengths and moving away from our weaknesses? Our OL sucks, yet we run right between the tackles, when we decide to run. we can't pass block, yet instead of quick slants and stunts we're throwing into triple coverage downfield or taking sacks.

Couldn't McCarthy do a better job of that? What am I missing? Sincerely, I respect your opinion, but Vanilla Bob is gone and it morphed to Vanilla Mike from my vantage point.

[mission]

:oops:

[gbgary]

i called for mm to give up play calling three years ago. last year i called for his firing.