Palin vs. Reagan - The Problem

[mraynrand]

In advance of the Vice Presidential debate on Thursday, it seems like a good time to talk about Sarah Palin and her role on the Republican ticket, her role in the Republican Party, and the future of the Republican party. Palin provided a huge surge for the Republicans, arriving on the scene of a lackluster McCain campaign, trying to battle both the tarnish of the Bush administration and the illumination of the Obama campaign by the main stream media. What was McCain to do? If he brings in Romney, he would get crushed (especially now with the financial collapse) of essentially welcoming an 'evil CEO' on the ticket. if he brings in Huckabee, you have Grampa and his Pastor running against the chosen one.

So McCain reaches, pulling in the inexperienced Palin, who has the advantages of being a staunch conservative, a reformer, a mother of five, and an executive of a successful state, with an eye on using the natural resources of the U.S. to help in the energy crunch. She comes to the party saying that she was inspired by Reagan, and that makes sense - she grew up with Reagan in the White House. But is she another Reagan. Well, no, not right now. Reagan had a long journey to his presidency, and had a lot of experience in politics, starting really with being the head of the actor's union. Being first a Democrat, and being able to see the workings of unions and protectionism, he forged a different direction, and changed his arty affiliation. He campaigned for several presidents, came close to defeating Ford for the nomination in 1976, and finally got on the ticket in 1980. By the time he got there, he had a direct and uncomplicated message, honed over three decades of crafting - mostly by himself - that resonated with America.

Simply, Reagan promoted the three legged stool of conservativism 1) Economic - the Federal government, and government in general, is an impediment in most cases to business and to the freedoms of the American people. Lower taxes and less government interference will lead to more prosperity. Hand-outs in the form of entitlement programs make people dependent on government, and that is a cancer that eats away the foundation of the country 2) Defense - The most vital, constitutionally mandated role of the government is to protect the nation. The United States is the greatest nation on the face of the earth and has demonstrated this by liberating countless nations in some of the most horrific wars at enormous cost in blood and treasure. Yet, despite our great status and power, we have not been an imperial power, handing over the reins to conquered nations and helping them rebuild themselves over and over. No Super power has done this anywhere near the extent of the U.S. It is our unique legacy. Evil exists in the form of communism and totalitarian regimes and we should oppose such regimes by proxy, and directly if necessary. Central to this goal is the maintenance of a strong military 3) Social - Our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution mandate and implore us to protect the sanctity of human life, and therefore we should strive to protect life from conception to natural death.

These are the ideas that Reagan advanced. Palin believes in them intrinsically and lives them. But she has had very little experience and opportunity to espouse them. She doesn't state these ideas clearly in interviews. She stumbles finding the right words, in twisted into knots countering gotcha questions and critiques. She likely won't have the seasoning to defeat the pathetic, but savvy Joe Biden on Thursday. She wasn't ready to burst on the national scene and handle all these difficult issues with the skill of a tried and tested Reagan - a must when battling the hostile forces aligned against her. If she somehow performs well on Thursday, it will be stunning, given the very little time she's had to craft her ideology into a direct, compelling, uncluttered message. While she represents the future of the party - the liberated, fully realized woman with the ability to choose a family, choose life, even for a special need child, and the ability to choose a challenging career, all with the support of a stable, cooperative husband. She represents the conservative ideals of Reagan, if not the polished and perfected delivery.

[LL2]

Did you write this mraynrand? Pretty good stuff. Palin is going to have to be perfect, unfortunately, at the VP debate. If she makes any mistakes Biden and the media will eat her alive.

[mraynrand]

Did you write this mraynrand? Pretty good stuff. Palin is going to have to be perfect, unfortunately, at the VP debate. If she makes any mistakes Biden and the media will eat her alive.


And the typos are mine too. I should probably clean it up...

[Freak Out]

Reagan signed the Nations most liberal abortion bill into law as Cali's Governor.

[texaspackerbacker]

The first response I had when I saw the thread title is: Palin ain't running against Reagan. Yeah, I know that isn't the message of the article, but whatever.

Completely aside from the more timely and relevant compsrison--to Barak Obama, who is WOEFULLY MORE INEXPERIENCED than Palin, both in foreign policy and executive decision-making in general, you have the point that as much as the liberal elitists HATED Reagan, they didn't even make as big a deal about Reagan on foreign policy as Palin. That leads to two conclusions: 1. There is major SEXISM motivating the Dem/libs here, and 2. They got BURNED by taking for granted in their sick elitist way, that Reagan didn't have a chance--that when it came right down to it, the American people would be sheep, following the likes of media assholes like Walter Cronkite, etc. and voting for the leftist candidate.

Palin is gonna stick it to the "Gaff Man". Ol' Joe Biden, on Thursday night, ideally to such an extent that even the ;eftist mainstream media can't deny it, but certainly to an extent that there will be no doubt in the minds of the American people.

[LL2]

Palin is gonna stick it to the "Gaff Man". Ol' Joe Biden, on Thursday night, ideally to such an extent that even the ;eftist mainstream media can't deny it, but certainly to an extent that there will be no doubt in the minds of the American people.

That is a bold claim. I hope your right.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I'm sorry, but i really don't buy the reformer part of her resume. This is a nice branding effort, but this is the same woman who hired a lobbyist to get Wasilla more money and supported the bridge to nowhere.

Now, that doesn't mean she is a bad person or pol, but the branding is kinda funny.

While we can argue all day about Obama's lack of experience, he clearly is well versed enough and smart enough to know the issues back and forth..regardless if you think he is wrong.

Palin, at this stage isn't. The question isn't that she isn't qualified...rand (who, outside of the pack..i don't agree with) is pretty much right..she isn't. There were much better candidates out there for your side. Now, they may not have energized the party, but as far as qualifications..not a doubt.

The problem is that so many of them dont' align with the conservative part of the party. Just as the left as to deal with the far left...the repubs have to deal with the far right...and, looking back at reagan...he really didn't have to kowtow to the religious right...talk about jesus, etc.

For example, if you wanted to nominate a woman..KBJ would be far better choice..except that she is pro-choice..which would alienate a substantial portion of the base.

So, what you are now left with is someone who energizes the base, but is essentially Dan Quayle redux. Yes, she is attractive and brings something to the table, but there can't be many that feel confident when she has to talk extemporaneously..or go against Biden (though, this is a treacherous time...since Biden can't seem to talk down to her or whip up on her..lest Palin get the sympathy vote..which is sexist...since Biden should be able to beat up on her like any man..but, we all know that can't happen.).

Look, if she can't hold up to a marshmellow like Couric then how is she going to do against anyone substantial. And, not being versed enough in current Mac positions or Bush's..that is inexcusable.

We can all criticize Obama for waiting and then clarifying his position (or waffling if you are a repub) like on Georgia, but telling Couric she'll get back to her on Mac...that is just laughable.

[sheepshead]

LOL

This IS rich!

The only thing Barry has changed is his brand of smokes!


I'm sorry, but i really don't buy the reformer part of her resume. This is a nice branding effort, but this is the same woman who hired a lobbyist to get Wasilla more money and supported the bridge to nowhere.




By the way you know what change means? ( some will find it offensive but it made me laugh)


Come Help A Negro Get Elected

[mraynrand]

We can all criticize Obama for waiting and then clarifying his position (or waffling if you are a repub) like on Georgia, but telling Couric she'll get back to her on Mac...that is just laughable.

I have to raise the point here: Obama changed his view almost completely from one of equanimity between the 'warring sides' in the Russian invasion - not a clarification.

Palin didn't have any examples from McCain's record. She just didn't know. She didn't know his record. The question is, should she? Was it a bogus question - sure it was. But her answer was her problem. She should have said - "McCain is reform-minded. I'm certain that a capable news reporter like you Katie can have an intern dig up all the McCain reforms. I don't have his record on the tip of my tongue."

Obama revealed a complete lack of judgment - no, what he revealed was his true instinct. Instincts that are wrong and dangerous, just like his instinct to say he should meet with Amadinajad and other treacherous leaders without precondition.

Comparing the two incidents is like apples and oranges. Obama revealed his true self - one of relativism (you could say humility in the face of evil), Plain revealed that she didn't have a working knowledge of McCains' career - and that she's not a savvy/slippery politician like others hanging around Washington all their lives. It does make her look bad, especially when the media is looking to diminish her.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

^^^
Helping the republican party shed it's reputation for racism one day at a time. :oops:

[pacfan]

mraynrand.

A great post, until the last paragragh. Your summary of her inexperience is exactly what makes her the weaker VP candidate. Its a huge leap of faith to justify her ability to serve when everything shown to date, from a controlled environment no less, proves otherwise. She keeps dropping the ball, softball questions answered with party line catch phrases, no substantive responses of her own. Everybody, but her, has justified her credentials and her position on the ticket. That doesn't work for me, I would be more inclined to have you serve as the VP candidate (if you really are Greenday from JSO) than Palin.

To compare/copntrast her experience (or lack thereof) against Obama is not correct either, she isn't running for President. Obama record will fail on its own accord.

Luckily, for all of us,the VP isn't the 2nd most powerful position in the world. I think its the presidential political advisors or the cabinet secretaries. Its only "the most powerful position" if the president is unable to serve. The VP has no enumerated duties unless its at an "undisclosed location."

To her credit, if Palin does well in the debate, the GOP will almost assurdedly secure the election in November. If she fails, then McCain might have to face some valid questions about his selection. No doubt the race will open up and Obama and the Dems might actually pull this off.

anyway, I'm off the soap box and back to work.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Rand,

The point of the thread is palin, so i'm not going to jack it and talk about Obama.

Couric: I disagree.

One thing I'll throw out is that anyone who justifies Palin's existence on this ticket by saying she is as experienced and knowledgeable as Obama should have their heads checked. Obama showed poise and knowledge in the debates. You may disagree with him on his positions, but he stood toe-to-toe with one of the more experienced US senators on foreign policy and had a good give and take. Sarah Palin is not in his class.

The most glaring thing after the debate was watching Biden go channel to channel after the debate and hearing each channel say "we requested Sarah Palin join us but the McCain campaign instead provided us with Rudy Giuliani."

Give me a break. She is so far out of her league and the fact they cant even have her out there doing traditional VP duties on debate night should have been glaring to anyone watching. Her presence on the ticket takes it from moderate and knowledgeable to a significant, significant risk.

[hoosier]

By the way you know what change means? ( some will find it offensive but it made me laugh)

Come Help A Negro Get Elected

Go back under the rock you crawled out of, you Flatlander hick.

[HowardRoark]

It really doesn't matter what happens Thursday......we don't have a free press anymore. This race is over.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It really doesn't matter what happens Thursday......we don't have a free press anymore. This race is over.

Is Fox gone?

Please don't tell me that. Where else will i get my daily dose of liberal bashing and Sean Hannity's relentless objectivity?

[BallHawk]

Please don't tell me that. Where else will i get my daily dose of liberal bashing and Sean Hannity's relentless objectivity?

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/index.php

[texaspackerbacker]

Palin is gonna stick it to the "Gaff Man". Ol' Joe Biden, on Thursday night, ideally to such an extent that even the leftist mainstream media can't deny it, but certainly to an extent that there will be no doubt in the minds of the American people.

That is a bold claim. I hope your right.

OK, I plead guilty to wishful thinking.

Past performance usually IS, however, a good indicator, and Sarah Palin has been all aces so far, as far as being in tune and ringing true with the huge majority of Americans' viewpoints.

Biden, on the other hand, has flubbed and stumbled and made gaff after gaff after gaff. The leftist media has done its best to ignore and downplay them, but he has made the gaffs just the same.

BTW, there's one of those weird emails going around--probably nothing to it, but claiming that on or about October 5--several days after the debate. Biden will bow out--for health reasons, his aneurysm or something, and Obama will get Hillary as his running mate. Wouldn't THAT be an interesting development!

[mraynrand]

Pacfan and Tyrone,

It seems like you agree with me. Palin has the ideology that the party appears to want, she's symbolic of the kind of liberated woman the conservative movement can identify with. and she's likely a reasonably bright and talented politician (at least in comparison to the average Washington pol). What she isn't is experienced - she not only doesn't have seasoning on international issues (and probably not national economic issues) , but she's not seasoned in the art of political-speak. She doesn't know how to get out of traps, she doesn't know how to say nothing without looking like she's saying nothing, etc (In other words she can't bullshit like the good pols). And most importantly, even though she has a core ideology that she firnly believes in - that is parallel with the Reagan message - she isn't polished and concise verbalizing it. That's why Giuliani was out there instead. Plus, you have to admit - if you're honest - that the press is trying to make her look foolish with gotcha questions.

I want her to succeed on Thursday - and the election really depends on it given that she'll be up right when the financial crisis will be at it's zenith - but I suspect she will look bad.

[sheepshead]

By the way you know what change means? ( some will find it offensive but it made me laugh)

Come Help A Negro Get Elected

Go back under the rock you crawled out of, you Flatlander hick.

Charming.

[hoosier]

Pacfan and Tyrone,

It seems like you agree with me. Palin has the ideology that the party appears to want, she's symbolic of the kind of liberated woman the conservative movement can identify with. and she's likely a reasonably bright and talented politician (at least in comparison to the average Washington pol). What she isn't is experienced - she not only doesn't have seasoning on international issues (and probably not national economic issues) , but she's not seasoned in the art of political-speak. She doesn't know how to get out of traps, she doesn't know how to say nothing without looking like she's saying nothing, etc (In other words she can't bullshit like the good pols). And most importantly, even though she has a core ideology that she firnly believes in - that is parallel with the Reagan message - she isn't polished and concise verbalizing it. That's why Giuliani was out there instead. Plus, you have to admit - if you're honest - that the press is trying to make her look foolish with gotcha questions.

I want her to succeed on Thursday - and the election really depends on it given that she'll be up right when the financial crisis will be at it's zenith - but I suspect she will look bad.

She may look bad, but I also wonder if expectations for her are set so low by now that, even looking bad, she still manages to come across as having stood toe to toe with Biden. I mean, it can't get much worse than the Katie Couric interview, can it?

[Kiwon]

By the way you know what change means? ( some will find it offensive but it made me laugh)

Come Help A Negro Get Elected

Go back under the rock you crawled out of, you Flatlander hick.

You must have not gotten the memo, sheepshead. Only liberals get to use race in humor. Hoosier doesn't have a problem comparing a caucasian (George Bush) to monkeys in a photo collage but it violates his little moral compass to do the same collage using Barack Obama.

Obvious hypocrisy but par for the course.

[Cheesehead Craig]

mraymond,
Palin's idealogy I'm not going to argue about. She seems very well aligned with what the Republicans like, if she wasn't she wouldn't be on the ticket.

She is performing very poorly, IMO in interviews and in scenarios where it's not scripted. This latest catchphrase of "gotcha journalism" is trying to deflect the blame that she's simply not that good right now. It's not like this is something new with journalists. If she can't handle Katie Couric, what's going to happen when foreign leaders she meets throw curveballs at her?

Having to have McCain there for a followup interview with Couric gave the distinct impression that it was "dad" protecting his defenseless little girl. The GOP does seem to be shielding her. Hell, McCain wanted to cancel the VP debate completely. How long will this go on?

Look, I think she's a great story and I had hoped she would do better, I really did. But it seems to me that she is flailing right now. She got thrown into the deep end of the pool before she was ready. Someday she may be the next great GOP candidate, but right now it's not her time.

[MadScientist]

Palin is not Reagan. She is the intellect and ideology of George W Bush combined with the soothing voice of Hillary Clinton.

[sheepshead]

By the way you know what change means? ( some will find it offensive but it made me laugh)

Come Help A Negro Get Elected

Go back under the rock you crawled out of, you Flatlander hick.

You must have not gotten the memo, sheepshead. Only liberals get to use race in humor. Hoosier doesn't have a problem comparing a caucasian (George Bush) to monkeys in a photo collage but it violates his little moral compass to do the same collage using Barack Obama.

Obvious hypocrisy but par for the course.
Ahhh, thanks for the heads up, I'll proceed accordingly.

[sheepshead]

mraymond,
Palin's idealogy I'm not going to argue about. She seems very well aligned with what the Republicans like, if she wasn't she wouldn't be on the ticket.

She is performing very poorly, IMO in interviews and in scenarios where it's not scripted. This latest catchphrase of "gotcha journalism" is trying to deflect the blame that she's simply not that good right now. It's not like this is something new with journalists. If she can't handle Katie Couric, what's going to happen when foreign leaders she meets throw curveballs at her?

Having to have McCain there for a followup interview with Couric gave the distinct impression that it was "dad" protecting his defenseless little girl. The GOP does seem to be shielding her. Hell, McCain wanted to cancel the VP debate completely. How long will this go on?

Look, I think she's a great story and I had hoped she would do better, I really did. But it seems to me that she is flailing right now. She got thrown into the deep end of the pool before she was ready. Someday she may be the next great GOP candidate, but right now it's not her time.

Anyone that uses Katie (K A T I E) Couric as your touchstone to assist them in determining who should get the second most important job in the world (on paper anyway, sec of state is arguably more important) probably should sleep in on the 4th.

[packinpatland]

mraymond,
Palin's idealogy I'm not going to argue about. She seems very well aligned with what the Republicans like, if she wasn't she wouldn't be on the ticket.

She is performing very poorly, IMO in interviews and in scenarios where it's not scripted. This latest catchphrase of "gotcha journalism" is trying to deflect the blame that she's simply not that good right now. It's not like this is something new with journalists. If she can't handle Katie Couric, what's going to happen when foreign leaders she meets throw curveballs at her?

Having to have McCain there for a followup interview with Couric gave the distinct impression that it was "dad" protecting his defenseless little girl. The GOP does seem to be shielding her. Hell, McCain wanted to cancel the VP debate completely. How long will this go on?

Look, I think she's a great story and I had hoped she would do better, I really did. But it seems to me that she is flailing right now. She got thrown into the deep end of the pool before she was ready. Someday she may be the next great GOP candidate, but right now it's not her time.

Anyone that uses Katie (K A T I E) Couric as your touchstone to assist them in determining who should get the second most important job in the world (on paper anyway, sec of state is arguably more important) probably should sleep in on the 4th.

What difference does it make who asks the questions? The answers are what count. This has nothing to do with patriotism........if that's what you were referring to about 'sleeping in on the 4th'.

[sheepshead]

okay, no I'll spell it out. Couric is an idiot. Do you think Al Gore could recite everyone of Bill Clinton's accomplishments as governor? Did anyone ask? No to both questions. This gotcha crap comes from a desperate news anchor who is clearly in over her head. They did the same thing to GWB and the same thing to Reagan. Both guys served eight years.

The 4th...is election day.

[LL2]

Palin is not Reagan. She is the intellect and ideology of George W Bush combined with the soothing voice of Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton has a soothing voice?

[Cheesehead Craig]

mraymond,
Palin's idealogy I'm not going to argue about. She seems very well aligned with what the Republicans like, if she wasn't she wouldn't be on the ticket.

She is performing very poorly, IMO in interviews and in scenarios where it's not scripted. This latest catchphrase of "gotcha journalism" is trying to deflect the blame that she's simply not that good right now. It's not like this is something new with journalists. If she can't handle Katie Couric, what's going to happen when foreign leaders she meets throw curveballs at her?

Having to have McCain there for a followup interview with Couric gave the distinct impression that it was "dad" protecting his defenseless little girl. The GOP does seem to be shielding her. Hell, McCain wanted to cancel the VP debate completely. How long will this go on?

Look, I think she's a great story and I had hoped she would do better, I really did. But it seems to me that she is flailing right now. She got thrown into the deep end of the pool before she was ready. Someday she may be the next great GOP candidate, but right now it's not her time.

Anyone that uses Katie (K A T I E) Couric as your touchstone to assist them in determining who should get the second most important job in the world (on paper anyway, sec of state is arguably more important) probably should sleep in on the 4th.

Answer is bolded in my original quote in response to your comment.

[hoosier]

Palin is not Reagan. She is the intellect and ideology of George W Bush combined with the soothing voice of Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton has a soothing voice?

http://purplehornet.com/blogger/images/sarcasm.jpg

[sheepshead]

mraymond,
Palin's idealogy I'm not going to argue about. She seems very well aligned with what the Republicans like, if she wasn't she wouldn't be on the ticket.

She is performing very poorly, IMO in interviews and in scenarios where it's not scripted. This latest catchphrase of "gotcha journalism" is trying to deflect the blame that she's simply not that good right now. It's not like this is something new with journalists. If she can't handle Katie Couric, what's going to happen when foreign leaders she meets throw curveballs at her?

Having to have McCain there for a followup interview with Couric gave the distinct impression that it was "dad" protecting his defenseless little girl. The GOP does seem to be shielding her. Hell, McCain wanted to cancel the VP debate completely. How long will this go on?

Look, I think she's a great story and I had hoped she would do better, I really did. But it seems to me that she is flailing right now. She got thrown into the deep end of the pool before she was ready. Someday she may be the next great GOP candidate, but right now it's not her time.

Anyone that uses Katie (K A T I E) Couric as your touchstone to assist them in determining who should get the second most important job in the world (on paper anyway, sec of state is arguably more important) probably should sleep in on the 4th.

Answer is bolded in my original quote in response to your comment.

Only you liberals worry about this gotcha crap. Listen, if she lacks experience and is unqualified,then the top of your ticket might as well fold his tent and go home. She has him beat by a mile. Besides, 8 years of vice president will prepare her nicely for the top job!

[Oscar]

I don't know there Sheep......Seems that McCain was worried about the "gotcha" crap. I have no intention on starting an argument ...So don't take my opinion that way..I saw the interview and, as was said, it seemed like a dad protecting his lil girl...

[Cheesehead Craig]

mraymond,
Palin's idealogy I'm not going to argue about. She seems very well aligned with what the Republicans like, if she wasn't she wouldn't be on the ticket.

She is performing very poorly, IMO in interviews and in scenarios where it's not scripted. This latest catchphrase of "gotcha journalism" is trying to deflect the blame that she's simply not that good right now. It's not like this is something new with journalists. If she can't handle Katie Couric, what's going to happen when foreign leaders she meets throw curveballs at her?

Having to have McCain there for a followup interview with Couric gave the distinct impression that it was "dad" protecting his defenseless little girl. The GOP does seem to be shielding her. Hell, McCain wanted to cancel the VP debate completely. How long will this go on?

Look, I think she's a great story and I had hoped she would do better, I really did. But it seems to me that she is flailing right now. She got thrown into the deep end of the pool before she was ready. Someday she may be the next great GOP candidate, but right now it's not her time.

Anyone that uses Katie (K A T I E) Couric as your touchstone to assist them in determining who should get the second most important job in the world (on paper anyway, sec of state is arguably more important) probably should sleep in on the 4th.

Answer is bolded in my original quote in response to your comment.

Only you liberals worry about this gotcha crap. Listen, if she lacks experience and is unqualified,then the top of your ticket might as well fold his tent and go home. She has him beat by a mile. Besides, 8 years of vice president will prepare her nicely for the top job!

McCain and Palin are espousing the "gotcha journalism" as why Palin is failing with the media. Go and look at the video with those 2 with Couric.

[sheepshead]

I'm not sure what that means CCraig, but I'm sure you have a point of some kind.


Then there's these beauties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvZpp9QJRME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRV5Y1JCGRI

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'm not sure what that means CCraig, but I'm sure you have a point of some kind.

I'll help you out since you can't follow a simple argument:


Only you liberals worry about this gotcha crap.


McCain and Palin are espousing the "gotcha journalism" as why Palin is failing with the media. Go and look at the video with those 2 with Couric.

[sheepshead]

Sorry, I still don't get it, but I'm not very smart.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Sorry, I still don't get it, but I'm not very smart.
Very well then. Carry on.

[mraynrand]

Palin is not Reagan. She is the intellect and ideology of George W Bush combined with the soothing voice of Hillary Clinton.

http://www.ravensravensravens.bravehost.com/Raven1b.jpg

[mraynrand]

mraymond,
Palin's idealogy I'm not going to argue about. She seems very well aligned with what the Republicans like, if she wasn't she wouldn't be on the ticket.

She is performing very poorly, IMO in interviews and in scenarios where it's not scripted. This latest catchphrase of "gotcha journalism" is trying to deflect the blame that she's simply not that good right now. It's not like this is something new with journalists. If she can't handle Katie Couric, what's going to happen when foreign leaders she meets throw curveballs at her?

Having to have McCain there for a followup interview with Couric gave the distinct impression that it was "dad" protecting his defenseless little girl. The GOP does seem to be shielding her. Hell, McCain wanted to cancel the VP debate completely. How long will this go on?

Look, I think she's a great story and I had hoped she would do better, I really did. But it seems to me that she is flailing right now. She got thrown into the deep end of the pool before she was ready. Someday she may be the next great GOP candidate, but right now it's not her time.

So you agree with me.

[Cheesehead Craig]

mraymond,
Palin's idealogy I'm not going to argue about. She seems very well aligned with what the Republicans like, if she wasn't she wouldn't be on the ticket.

She is performing very poorly, IMO in interviews and in scenarios where it's not scripted. This latest catchphrase of "gotcha journalism" is trying to deflect the blame that she's simply not that good right now. It's not like this is something new with journalists. If she can't handle Katie Couric, what's going to happen when foreign leaders she meets throw curveballs at her?

Having to have McCain there for a followup interview with Couric gave the distinct impression that it was "dad" protecting his defenseless little girl. The GOP does seem to be shielding her. Hell, McCain wanted to cancel the VP debate completely. How long will this go on?

Look, I think she's a great story and I had hoped she would do better, I really did. But it seems to me that she is flailing right now. She got thrown into the deep end of the pool before she was ready. Someday she may be the next great GOP candidate, but right now it's not her time.

So you agree with me.

She's beyond not polished. She's downright bad.

[LL2]

Well, it sure looks like Palin is going to be the underdog in more ways than one before this debate even starts. The moderator has written a pro Obama book. Talk about the debate being skewed in Biden's favor. I can't believe other media outlets besides Fox has not mentioned this and no objection from the McCain campaign.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/01/vp-debate-moderator-pens-pro-obama-book/

[mraynrand]

and Madame Defarge knits quietly in the corner...

[hoosier]

Well, it sure looks like Palin is going to be the underdog in more ways than one before this debate even starts. The moderator has written a pro Obama book. Talk about the debate being skewed in Biden's favor. I can't believe other media outlets besides Fox has not mentioned this and no objection from the McCain campaign.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/01/vp-debate-moderator-pens-pro-obama-book/

It's not clear that her book is pro-Obama, but I agree that it would be better for all concerned if she "recused" herself given that Obama clearly plays a central role in her book. But if I were a conservative I would be loving this: if Palin does even moderately well she has overperformed in comparison with the dismal expectations that have been set by her earlier interviews, and if she does badly, the appearance that the moderator migth not be impartial provides her yet another excuse. By the same token, Gwen Ifill is going to have to bend over backwards to be fair to Palin or else she's getting roasted.

[mraynrand]

Well, it sure looks like Palin is going to be the underdog in more ways than one before this debate even starts. The moderator has written a pro Obama book. Talk about the debate being skewed in Biden's favor. I can't believe other media outlets besides Fox has not mentioned this and no objection from the McCain campaign.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/01/vp-debate-moderator-pens-pro-obama-book/

It's not clear that her book is pro-Obama, but I agree that it would be better for all concerned if she "recused" herself given that Obama clearly plays a central role in her book. But if I were a conservative I would be loving this: if Palin does even moderately well she has overperformed in comparison with the dismal expectations that have been set by her earlier interviews, and if she does badly, the appearance that the moderator migth not be impartial provides her yet another excuse. By the same token, Gwen Ifill is going to have to bend over backwards to be fair to Palin or else she's getting roasted.


:bs2:

[LL2]

Well, it sure looks like Palin is going to be the underdog in more ways than one before this debate even starts. The moderator has written a pro Obama book. Talk about the debate being skewed in Biden's favor. I can't believe other media outlets besides Fox has not mentioned this and no objection from the McCain campaign.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/01/vp-debate-moderator-pens-pro-obama-book/

It's not clear that her book is pro-Obama, but I agree that it would be better for all concerned if she "recused" herself given that Obama clearly plays a central role in her book. But if I were a conservative I would be loving this: if Palin does even moderately well she has overperformed in comparison with the dismal expectations that have been set by her earlier interviews, and if she does badly, the appearance that the moderator migth not be impartial provides her yet another excuse. By the same token, Gwen Ifill is going to have to bend over backwards to be fair to Palin or else she's getting roasted.

That's one way to look at it. I just can't see CNN and others roasting her afterwards no matter how Ifill does...but we will see.

[hoosier]

Well, it sure looks like Palin is going to be the underdog in more ways than one before this debate even starts. The moderator has written a pro Obama book. Talk about the debate being skewed in Biden's favor. I can't believe other media outlets besides Fox has not mentioned this and no objection from the McCain campaign.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/01/vp-debate-moderator-pens-pro-obama-book/

It's not clear that her book is pro-Obama, but I agree that it would be better for all concerned if she "recused" herself given that Obama clearly plays a central role in her book. But if I were a conservative I would be loving this: if Palin does even moderately well she has overperformed in comparison with the dismal expectations that have been set by her earlier interviews, and if she does badly, the appearance that the moderator migth not be impartial provides her yet another excuse. By the same token, Gwen Ifill is going to have to bend over backwards to be fair to Palin or else she's getting roasted.

That's one way to look at it. I just can't see CNN and others roasting her afterwards no matter how Ifill does...but we will see.

In any case, both campaigns have to approve the moderator for debates. If Ifill was biased, why would the McCain campaign ok her? It seems to me there are three possibilities: (1) Mac sees her as unbiased; (2) Mac campaign doesn't know what it's doing; (3) Mac campaign wants a built-in excuse to give to its base (Fox News viewers) in case Palin performs terribly.

[mraynrand]

Well, it sure looks like Palin is going to be the underdog in more ways than one before this debate even starts. The moderator has written a pro Obama book. Talk about the debate being skewed in Biden's favor. I can't believe other media outlets besides Fox has not mentioned this and no objection from the McCain campaign.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/01/vp-debate-moderator-pens-pro-obama-book/

It's not clear that her book is pro-Obama, but I agree that it would be better for all concerned if she "recused" herself given that Obama clearly plays a central role in her book. But if I were a conservative I would be loving this: if Palin does even moderately well she has overperformed in comparison with the dismal expectations that have been set by her earlier interviews, and if she does badly, the appearance that the moderator migth not be impartial provides her yet another excuse. By the same token, Gwen Ifill is going to have to bend over backwards to be fair to Palin or else she's getting roasted.

That's one way to look at it. I just can't see CNN and others roasting her afterwards no matter how Ifill does...but we will see.

In any case, both campaigns have to approve the moderator for debates. If Ifill was biased, why would the McCain campaign ok her? It seems to me there are three possibilities: (1) Mac sees her as unbiased; (2) Mac campaign doesn't know what it's doing; (3) Mac campaign wants a built-in excuse to give to its base (Fox News viewers) in case Palin performs terribly.

You need a bit more cynicism to understand events. If the McCain campaign didn't accept Ifill, then they would certainly take heat, in the form of attacks on 'being afraid', or being racist, etc. The real answer is that the McCain campaign doesn't want to make a news story about rejecting Ifill - the Republican 'surrogates' will question Ifill objectivity - and rightly so in this case.

[hoosier]

Well, it sure looks like Palin is going to be the underdog in more ways than one before this debate even starts. The moderator has written a pro Obama book. Talk about the debate being skewed in Biden's favor. I can't believe other media outlets besides Fox has not mentioned this and no objection from the McCain campaign.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/01/vp-debate-moderator-pens-pro-obama-book/

It's not clear that her book is pro-Obama, but I agree that it would be better for all concerned if she "recused" herself given that Obama clearly plays a central role in her book. But if I were a conservative I would be loving this: if Palin does even moderately well she has overperformed in comparison with the dismal expectations that have been set by her earlier interviews, and if she does badly, the appearance that the moderator migth not be impartial provides her yet another excuse. By the same token, Gwen Ifill is going to have to bend over backwards to be fair to Palin or else she's getting roasted.

That's one way to look at it. I just can't see CNN and others roasting her afterwards no matter how Ifill does...but we will see.

In any case, both campaigns have to approve the moderator for debates. If Ifill was biased, why would the McCain campaign ok her? It seems to me there are three possibilities: (1) Mac sees her as unbiased; (2) Mac campaign doesn't know what it's doing; (3) Mac campaign wants a built-in excuse to give to its base (Fox News viewers) in case Palin performs terribly.

You need a bit more cynicism to understand events. If the McCain campaign didn't accept Ifill, then they would certainly take heat, in the form of attacks on 'being afraid', or being racist, etc. The real answer is that the McCain campaign doesn't want to make a news story about rejecting Ifill - the Republican 'surrogates' will question Ifill objectivity - and rightly so in this case.

To quote another poster, BS. They could easily veto her on the grounds that she has a book coming out on Obama if they thought the book gave evidence of bias.

[mraynrand]

Well, it sure looks like Palin is going to be the underdog in more ways than one before this debate even starts. The moderator has written a pro Obama book. Talk about the debate being skewed in Biden's favor. I can't believe other media outlets besides Fox has not mentioned this and no objection from the McCain campaign.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/01/vp-debate-moderator-pens-pro-obama-book/

It's not clear that her book is pro-Obama, but I agree that it would be better for all concerned if she "recused" herself given that Obama clearly plays a central role in her book. But if I were a conservative I would be loving this: if Palin does even moderately well she has overperformed in comparison with the dismal expectations that have been set by her earlier interviews, and if she does badly, the appearance that the moderator migth not be impartial provides her yet another excuse. By the same token, Gwen Ifill is going to have to bend over backwards to be fair to Palin or else she's getting roasted.

That's one way to look at it. I just can't see CNN and others roasting her afterwards no matter how Ifill does...but we will see.

In any case, both campaigns have to approve the moderator for debates. If Ifill was biased, why would the McCain campaign ok her? It seems to me there are three possibilities: (1) Mac sees her as unbiased; (2) Mac campaign doesn't know what it's doing; (3) Mac campaign wants a built-in excuse to give to its base (Fox News viewers) in case Palin performs terribly.

You need a bit more cynicism to understand events. If the McCain campaign didn't accept Ifill, then they would certainly take heat, in the form of attacks on 'being afraid', or being racist, etc. The real answer is that the McCain campaign doesn't want to make a news story about rejecting Ifill - the Republican 'surrogates' will question Ifill objectivity - and rightly so in this case.

To quote another poster, BS. They could easily veto her on the grounds that she has a book coming out on Obama if they thought the book gave evidence of bias.

Do they have an advance copy? How could they demonstrate bias without the book? But clearly there is a conflict of interest, if not bias. Ifill should step aside and let someone impartial, like Paul Krugman, run the debate.

[texaspackerbacker]

All of this is the perception of the leftist mainstream media--patting themselves on the back for having destroyed her.

We'll see about that Thursday night when the propaganda of the leftist media is stripped away and the unfiltered messages come through.

Maybe Governor Palin really will fail miserably--basically double-teamed by a moderator from the leftist mainstream media along with Joe "The Gaff Man" Biden. Somehow, I doubt that, though.

The bottom line is that she--and McCain--are in tune with the views of the great majority of the people on the issues. That is HER edge. All she has to do is articulate TRUE points of view--while Biden needs to spin everything and deceive people because if he is arrogant to truthfully state his own--and Obama's--views and positions, he and Obama will be exposed as the leftist extremists that they are.

[hoosier]

Well, it sure looks like Palin is going to be the underdog in more ways than one before this debate even starts. The moderator has written a pro Obama book. Talk about the debate being skewed in Biden's favor. I can't believe other media outlets besides Fox has not mentioned this and no objection from the McCain campaign.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/01/vp-debate-moderator-pens-pro-obama-book/

It's not clear that her book is pro-Obama, but I agree that it would be better for all concerned if she "recused" herself given that Obama clearly plays a central role in her book. But if I were a conservative I would be loving this: if Palin does even moderately well she has overperformed in comparison with the dismal expectations that have been set by her earlier interviews, and if she does badly, the appearance that the moderator migth not be impartial provides her yet another excuse. By the same token, Gwen Ifill is going to have to bend over backwards to be fair to Palin or else she's getting roasted.

That's one way to look at it. I just can't see CNN and others roasting her afterwards no matter how Ifill does...but we will see.

In any case, both campaigns have to approve the moderator for debates. If Ifill was biased, why would the McCain campaign ok her? It seems to me there are three possibilities: (1) Mac sees her as unbiased; (2) Mac campaign doesn't know what it's doing; (3) Mac campaign wants a built-in excuse to give to its base (Fox News viewers) in case Palin performs terribly.

You need a bit more cynicism to understand events. If the McCain campaign didn't accept Ifill, then they would certainly take heat, in the form of attacks on 'being afraid', or being racist, etc. The real answer is that the McCain campaign doesn't want to make a news story about rejecting Ifill - the Republican 'surrogates' will question Ifill objectivity - and rightly so in this case.

To quote another poster, BS. They could easily veto her on the grounds that she has a book coming out on Obama if they thought the book gave evidence of bias.

Do they have an advance copy? How could they demonstrate bias without the book? But clearly there is a conflict of interest, if not bias. Ifill should step aside and let someone impartial, like Paul Krugman, run the debate.

Apparently you have enough "evidence" to determine that she's biased. If it's good enough for you I'm sure it's good enough for McCain and Palin. :lol:

[texaspackerbacker]

McCain has called Ifill's book and her unabashed support for Obama a "non-issue". That's good enough for me. Lehrer is from the same liberal network, and he came through as reasonably fair and balanced.

I think the exposure of the book thing and Ifill's background will now effectively prevent her from pulling any crap. That would be just too obvious even for the left.

[mraynrand]

http://www.slate.com/id/2237638/

This is not very Reaganesque. Palin actually leaves the door open for birthers. Palling around with Anti-semitic Nixon Staffers! Good Grief!

Hitchens: "But she should take care to read her Alexander Pope: That bloom will soon enough fade, and it will fade really quickly if she uses it to prostitute herself to the Nixonites on one day and then to cock-tease the rabble on the next."
----

Nixon staffers: run away!

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/presidentbush/images/2008/08/06/cheney.jpg

[mraynrand]

(P.S. this thread is pre-FYI - administrator: please move it to FYI)

[HowardRoark]

(P.S. this thread is pre-FYI - administrator: please move it to FYI)

Be still my heart....it skipped a beat when I saw Tex in the thread.

[Freak Out]

:)

Did you guys read her piece in the Post today?

[mraynrand]

:)

Did you guys read her piece in the Post today?

link?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/08/AR2009120803402.html

Seems reasonable

[Tyrone Bigguns]

She proves to be as dense as ever.