I'm Voting For Barack Obama

[Maxie the Taxi]

Yes, I've changed my mind. I hope Obama wins in a landslide. I'm going to do what I can to make sure it happens. I encourage all my fellow conservative and libertarian friends on this board to do the same.

Why?

I'm convinced John McCain will do more harm than good to the Republican Party and, by extension, to those who truly believe in laissez faire freedom. Ultimately, a McCain presidency will irrevocably damage this nation.

As McCain has demonstrated over the past week or so, he's an economic buffoon. A short example will suffice: Here is a man who suspended his campaign to return to Washington to act on the financial bailout bill. When he got to Washington, he sat on his hands and said nothing of importance. (Other than to suggest that the federal government had the authority even without the bailout bill to spend $1-trillion buying up private mortgages. He advocated this nonsense in addition to, eventually, cheerleading the bailout bill.)

McCain then left Washington and the bailout bill hanging to participate in the Presidential debate in which he spent 75% of his time lecturing the nation on the evils of pork barrell "earmarks." He said with all sincerity he would, as President, veto the first bill laden with earmarks to cross his desk.

So what does he do? He patters back to Washington after the debate and votes for the bailout bill -- a bill so laden in special interest pork it virtually squeals!

McCain's positions on immigration, finance reform, abortion and big government (he likes it, despite what he says), already had me squirming. His only saving grace is his position on national defense and the war in Iraq. Sorry, it's not enough.

I understand Barack Obama is an economic illiterate himself, economically a bigger moron than McCain, if that's possible. His prescriptions will kill the patient. His vision for the country is the opposite of prosperity: European socialism. However, the country is headed there anyway. I'd rather Obama get the credit for leading us there than a buffoon in free market clothing.

With regard to Iraq, I'm hoping Obama has sufficiently lied and backpeddled his way out of his defeatist initial positions so that public opinion will force him to see Iraq through. If he follows through in Afghanistan and Pakistan as promised, he will have no choice other than to build up the military. Besides, as history has shown, Democratic administrations that come into power after promising peace are usually closet warmongers. Unlike smarmy Republicans, they don't hesitate to bring out the big guns and use them mercilessly. (Maybe it's the uniforms that finally get them. Or the power. The military equals power and Democrats, God knows, are power-trippers.)

I also understand that, as President, Barack Obama and his Democratic spinmeisters will claim that everything that will go wrong with the country in the next four to eight years will not be the result of Obama's wrong-headed social programs and his military adventurism but the result of previous Republican malfeasance. Obama and friends will claim -- as Democrats have always claimed -- that Republicans had dug the country into such a deep and bottomless pit that it will take us many years (and scads of Democrat social programs and trillions of taxpayer dollars) to dig ourselves out.

So be it.

I hang my hat on a single hook: Individual Americans are not altogether stupid. They will eventually see through the Democrat fog and return the country to real fiscal and social sanity soon after the Obama experiment ends.

Of course, there is this much worse possibility: Obama and friends will drive the country into literal financial, political and social ruin, at which time free patriots will once again have to take their country back by force. We'll have to fight the Revolutionary War all over again.

But it would be a good fight, one I could put my heart and soul into, a fight far different and more satisfying than this worthless political campaign we are being asked to fight now, lead by a mousy paper warrior named John McCain.

[bobblehead]

welcome aboard...but I'm voting libertarian hoping the republicans get the full message instead of thinking obama beat them I want them to understand that they simply lost.

[mraynrand]

Good for you both. Enjoy House, Senate and White House controlled by Pelosi, Reid, and Obama. If there is still open political talk on the internet in 2012, we can discuss the next Republican you're voting against because he/she isn't perfect.

[bobblehead]

Good for you both. Enjoy House, Senate and White House controlled by Pelosi, Reid, and Obama. If there is still open political talk on the internet in 2012, we can discuss the next Republican you're voting against because he/she isn't perfect.

That is a recipe for a newt gingrich engineered takeover of house and senate in 2010. It worked last time. Then he runs for president in 2012 and reinstates the internet with algores help.

[mraynrand]

Good for you both. Enjoy House, Senate and White House controlled by Pelosi, Reid, and Obama. If there is still open political talk on the internet in 2012, we can discuss the next Republican you're voting against because he/she isn't perfect.

That is a recipe for a newt gingrich engineered takeover of house and senate in 2010. It worked last time. Then he runs for president in 2012 and reinstates the internet with algores help.

Sure he does. Newt will sail through the media grinder, even without conservative talk radio and restrictions on the internet. Right. The guy who was fucking his girlfriend while his wife was dying, and shut down Congress and allowed thousands of starving children in America die. Get the picture?

[Maxie the Taxi]

welcome aboard...but I'm voting libertarian hoping the republicans get the full message instead of thinking obama beat them I want them to understand that they simply lost.

Works for me. Go Bob Barr.

[bobblehead]

Good for you both. Enjoy House, Senate and White House controlled by Pelosi, Reid, and Obama. If there is still open political talk on the internet in 2012, we can discuss the next Republican you're voting against because he/she isn't perfect.

That is a recipe for a newt gingrich engineered takeover of house and senate in 2010. It worked last time. Then he runs for president in 2012 and reinstates the internet with algores help.

Sure he does. Newt will sail through the media grinder, even without conservative talk radio and restrictions on the internet. Right. The guy who was fucking his girlfriend while his wife was dying, and shut down Congress and allowed thousands of starving children in America die. Get the picture?

I get the picture...I also believe if newt had run he would be up by 10 points. One thing I agree with ty about, there is too much info out there nowdays and if Gingrich is speaking people will listen. Bill had his jizz on a blue dress and won re-election because he was forced to adopt gingrich ideology. If you say and do the things that are right for america you will win...hands down. Only PiP and a few others would vote against a motivated well funded gingrich despite his human failings. See...at the end of the day real conservatives with real values win national elections every time.

gingrich is our last tie to a balanced budget (not a surplus) and that will win in a landslide.

[LL2]

I'm not all that crazy about McCain, but there is no way on God's green earth I could get myself to vote for Obama. Just do not understand how anyone could make the switch.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Good for you both. Enjoy House, Senate and White House controlled by Pelosi, Reid, and Obama. If there is still open political talk on the internet in 2012, we can discuss the next Republican you're voting against because he/she isn't perfect.

McCain "isn't perfect?"

Come on, Mrayn. McCain is about as far away from "perfect" as Britney Spears is from Nancy Wilson.

I stand by my post except I'll vote for Barr. Like LL2, I doubt I could actually pull the lever for the Mother-Of-All-Promisers.

(Of course, if McCain kicks the bucket before the election, I'll vote Palin. :) )

[mraynrand]

Good for you both. Enjoy House, Senate and White House controlled by Pelosi, Reid, and Obama. If there is still open political talk on the internet in 2012, we can discuss the next Republican you're voting against because he/she isn't perfect.

That is a recipe for a newt gingrich engineered takeover of house and senate in 2010. It worked last time. Then he runs for president in 2012 and reinstates the internet with algores help.

Sure he does. Newt will sail through the media grinder, even without conservative talk radio and restrictions on the internet. Right. The guy who was fucking his girlfriend while his wife was dying, and shut down Congress and allowed thousands of starving children in America die. Get the picture?

I get the picture...I also believe if newt had run he would be up by 10 points. One thing I agree with ty about, there is too much info out there nowdays and if Gingrich is speaking people will listen. Bill had his jizz on a blue dress and won re-election because he was forced to adopt gingrich ideology. If you say and do the things that are right for america you will win...hands down. Only PiP and a few others would vote against a motivated well funded gingrich despite his human failings. See...at the end of the day real conservatives with real values win national elections every time.

gingrich is our last tie to a balanced budget (not a surplus) and that will win in a landslide.

Were you involved in the primary process? Did you work for Gingrich last year to get him to run. The guy had a golden opportunity this past year to run in the primary, but he couldn't get more than luke warm numbers, even when people were souring on the other candidates, like Romney and Giuliani. Why do you think that is? Why didn't he leap in - in the year where his chances would have been the best - with a Republican base looking for a strong conservative. This was his year, but he bailed out. Speaking of bailouts, Gingrich was against the bailout before being for it, despite the most of the modification not addressing the problems he talked about last week. He made sense but now is on board. Why is that?

[mraynrand]

Good for you both. Enjoy House, Senate and White House controlled by Pelosi, Reid, and Obama. If there is still open political talk on the internet in 2012, we can discuss the next Republican you're voting against because he/she isn't perfect.

McCain "isn't perfect?"

Come on, Mrayn. McCain is about as far away from "perfect" as Britney Spears is from Nancy Wilson.

I stand by my post except I'll vote for Barr. Like LL2, I doubt I could actually pull the lever for the Mother-Of-All-Promisers.

(Of course, if McCain kicks the bucket before the election, I'll vote Palin. :) )

Well, that made a hell of a lot of sense. I know the problems with McCain. He wasn't my first choice or second choice either. But there is no fucking way in hell I'm going to help elect a second generation campus radical who will give free reign to Pelosi and Reid. Work for 2010, and work in the 2012 primary to get the guy you want, but for shit's sake, how can you actually favor putting Obama in unchecked. boggles the mind.

[LL2]

Good for you both. Enjoy House, Senate and White House controlled by Pelosi, Reid, and Obama. If there is still open political talk on the internet in 2012, we can discuss the next Republican you're voting against because he/she isn't perfect.

McCain "isn't perfect?"

Come on, Mrayn. McCain is about as far away from "perfect" as Britney Spears is from Nancy Wilson.

I stand by my post except I'll vote for Barr. Like LL2, I doubt I could actually pull the lever for the Mother-Of-All-Promisers.

(Of course, if McCain kicks the bucket before the election, I'll vote Palin. :) )

You see, this is the very reason I'm voting for McCain and it's the reason others should too. Palin doesn't have all the experience in the world right now, (Warning to PIP...don't read the following statement) but after 4 yrs as VP she will have all the experience she needs to run for president. I'm hoping McCain will be a 1 term president and not bother to run for a second term.

[packinpatland]

It's OK guys......keep taking your shots......whatever makes you feel good.

Today in the mail I recieved the 3rd letter from the Republican party urging me, as my daughter's legal guardian, to register her to vote.
I've also gotten two phone calls.
Someone, please tell me, why? My daughter can not read, she doesn't really know who is running for Pres. , much less who is Pres. I guess I could register her, take her to vote........and she'd vote how ever I wanted her to.
Somehow, this doesn't ring right.
For whatever reason, I have not been contacted by the Democratic party....or any other independent, third party.
I wonder how many other folks are being contacted, by either party, to have people vote, who are not really capable.

[mraynrand]

It's OK guys......keep taking your shots......whatever makes you feel good.

Today in the mail I recieved the 3rd letter from the Republican party urging me, as my daughter's legal guardian, to register her to vote.
I've also gotten two phone calls.
Someone, please tell me, why? My daughter can not read, she doesn't really know who is running for Pres. , much less who is Pres. I guess I could register her, take her to vote........and she'd vote how ever I wanted her to.
Somehow, this doesn't ring right.
For whatever reason, I have not been contacted by the Democratic party....or any other independent, third party.
I wonder how many other folks are being contacted, by either party, to have people vote, who are not really capable.

I bet ACORN has contacted Mary Poppins and Jive Turkey to make sure they update their registration. Don't worry PIP, the dems are too busy signing up felons to be interested in your daughter.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Well, that made a hell of a lot of sense. I know the problems with McCain. He wasn't my first choice or second choice either. But there is no fucking way in hell I'm going to help elect a second generation campus radical who will give free reign to Pelosi and Reid. Work for 2010, and work in the 2012 primary to get the guy you want, but for shit's sake, how can you actually favor putting Obama in unchecked. boggles the mind.

I disagree with your premises:

First, I am not a Republican who dutifully votes for the Republican candidate however unqualified, however imperfect, however unsatisfactory, however third rate.

Second, my vote for Obama would "help elect" him. This I admit. But my vote for Barr does not help elect Obama.

Third, a Republican President will not necessarily check Pelosi and Reid. This should be evident given that we have a Republican President now and Pelosi and Reid remain unchecked. In fact, President Bush is enabling Pelosi and Reid. McCain has promised to do the same. Not a month ago, he praised them!

Fourth, Pelosi and Reid will be checked by votes against Democrats running for House and Senate seats locally. This I plan to do.

Fifth, working in the primaries for the candidate of your choice didn't do you any good in 2008. Why would it help me in 2010 or 2012? McCain is the joke that is being played on the Republican Party, not Obama. Why don't you join me in abandoning the Republican Party and voting for Barr, a candidate who, I assume, shares the majority of your beliefs and positions?

[Maxie the Taxi]

It's OK guys......keep taking your shots......whatever makes you feel good.

Today in the mail I recieved the 3rd letter from the Republican party urging me, as my daughter's legal guardian, to register her to vote.
I've also gotten two phone calls.
Someone, please tell me, why? My daughter can not read, she doesn't really know who is running for Pres. , much less who is Pres. I guess I could register her, take her to vote........and she'd vote how ever I wanted her to.
Somehow, this doesn't ring right.
For whatever reason, I have not been contacted by the Democratic party....or any other independent, third party.
I wonder how many other folks are being contacted, by either party, to have people vote, who are not really capable.

I know why the Republicans are interested in your daughter. They've discovered she's a more critical thinker than you are.

[retailguy]

It's OK guys......keep taking your shots......whatever makes you feel good.

Today in the mail I recieved the 3rd letter from the Republican party urging me, as my daughter's legal guardian, to register her to vote.
I've also gotten two phone calls.
Someone, please tell me, why? My daughter can not read, she doesn't really know who is running for Pres. , much less who is Pres. I guess I could register her, take her to vote........and she'd vote how ever I wanted her to.
Somehow, this doesn't ring right.
For whatever reason, I have not been contacted by the Democratic party....or any other independent, third party.
I wonder how many other folks are being contacted, by either party, to have people vote, who are not really capable.

Are the shots taken against you really that unfair? See, from my perspective they kind of mirror the shots that you and the media have taken against Palin.

You've "decided" by doing little more than read the mainstream press that she "isn't worthy" of your vote. You minimized EVERY SINGLE THING that could be construed positively in her background and maximized everything negative.

From outward appearances you've done ZERO research on your own to discover if there might be another reason that McCain picked her other than the biased political ones you trot out here.

As to your daughter, NO ONE outside your home, and certainly not those representing a political party would know the state of your daughter. It is a reasonable assumption to figure that she COULD vote. After all, she is a citizen and has the legal right to vote. There is no "intelligence" requirement for voting either, and from a legal perspective you could cast a vote as her guardian. (I believe)

I find it morally upstanding that you don't, but taking that view doesn't make it morally reprehensible on the part of the Rebupblican party or any other party to seek her voter registration.... Sadly, my guess is, that if the DEMOCRATS were sending notices, we would not know about them. It is comforting to know that if the dems were, that their letters would end up in the trash next to the Republicans. I do commend you for that.

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, Maxie and Bobblehead, you guys have officially gone off the deep end. Fortunately, I don't think there are very many like ya'all.

BTW, I never did get an answer to my question. What is Bob Barr's position on the bail out of Wall Street? Don't worry, even if he's against it, I'm not switching to him.

[mraynrand]

Well, that made a hell of a lot of sense. I know the problems with McCain. He wasn't my first choice or second choice either. But there is no fucking way in hell I'm going to help elect a second generation campus radical who will give free reign to Pelosi and Reid. Work for 2010, and work in the 2012 primary to get the guy you want, but for shit's sake, how can you actually favor putting Obama in unchecked. boggles the mind.

I disagree with your premises:

First, I am not a Republican who dutifully votes for the Republican candidate however unqualified, however imperfect, however unsatisfactory, however third rate.

Second, my vote for Obama would "help elect" him. This I admit. But my vote for Barr does not help elect Obama.

Third, a Republican President will not necessarily check Pelosi and Reid. This should be evident given that we have a Republican President now and Pelosi and Reid remain unchecked. In fact, President Bush is enabling Pelosi and Reid. McCain has promised to do the same. Not a month ago, he praised them!

Fourth, Pelosi and Reid will be checked by votes against Democrats running for House and Senate seats locally. This I plan to do.

Fifth, working in the primaries for the candidate of your choice didn't do you any good in 2008. Why would it help me in 2010 or 2012? McCain is the joke that is being played on the Republican Party, not Obama. Why don't you join me in abandoning the Republican Party and voting for Barr, a candidate who, I assume, shares the majority of your beliefs and positions?

I disagree with all your points.

First (and Second), I am also not a dutiful Republican. The election though, is between Obama and McCain. Barr will get 1% or less and it will be taken from McCain. So a vote for Barr is a vote for Obama

Third/Fourth, Obama will hardly check Pelosi and Reid. Anyone who has been following the election knows that Repubs are going to lose seats in both houses. There is no chance to counter Reid and Pelosi for control except in the presidency and in the Senate cloture vote, assuming 40 Repubs remain. Sure some bargaining will still take place, but the whole Govt. will be dominated by Dems. Do you see that as a positive?

Fifth, Barr has no chance. Zero. Third parties are a joke. Even the most popular third party candidate of our time got 19% and really affected nothing except to help Clinton get elected. That turned out well, didn't it. Furthermore, a guy like Barr will never get elected in this environment. he's too extreme for the average joe. If he has such great ideas, he should take them to the Repub party and push for his ideas and change the party. it can be done - but it wono't get done believing in the fantasy that electing Obama will return the nation to the right. And even if it did, the probable damage caused by Reid Pelosi and Obama working together might take forever to undo.

[packinpatland]

"It is a reasonable assumption to figure that she COULD vote. After all, she is a citizen and has the legal right to vote. There is no "intelligence" requirement for voting either, and from a legal perspective you could cast a vote as her guardian. (I believe) "

Yes, she could physically vote. Yes, legally it is permisable for me or my husband to go into the voting booth with her. But no, as guardians, we are not able to cast a vote for her.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If this forum is an indication of the nation, the republican party is fracturing like the former Yugoslavia.

BTW, just to extend the metaphor...Tex is Slobodan Milošević.

[Maxie the Taxi]

mraynrand,

I've heard your arguments before, but a few things bother me about it.

First, it's a self-fulfilling prophesy. If every individual who had more in common with the Libertarians than with Democrats or Republicans actually voted Libertarian, then Barr would get more than 1%. You're like the guy who complains he never wins the lottery but says in the same breath he never plays the lottery because the odds are against him.

Second, if the Libertarians get more than 1% -- if they get as much as 10%, say -- then a strong message would be sent to those Republicans and Democrats that won the election. Plus, in the face of a significant percentage of the vote, it would be difficult to exclude the Libertarian candidate from Presidential debates. Plus, the higher the percentage won by the Libertarians, the less the self-fulfilling prophesy of the wasted vote holds water.

Third, if I'm supposed to vote based on poll projections of how everyone else will vote, they why should I vote at all? I live in a heavily Republican area. All polls project a huge McCain victory here. Thus, one vote more or less won't matter. So here, my vote for Barr will not be a vote for Obama.

Moreover, if you know anything about statistics, you know that individuals don't matter. They are subsumed by the law of large numbers. The odds that any one person's individual vote will decide a Presidential election either locally or nationally -- especially in a system like ours based on The Electoral College -- are virtually zero. The same "zero" chance, by the way, that you ascribe to Barr's winning.

All your arguments are therefore red herrings. Individuals should vote their conscience and trust that their neighbors will do the same. Let the chips fall as they may.

Look, I understand your dilemma and I am sympathetic. However, your dilemma is truly John McCain. You assume that McCain will thwart Pelosi and Reid. I assume that McCain will enable them. This is a worse senario in my mind than Obama enabling them.

Backlash is a legitimate and real political phenomenon. If Obama, Pelosi and Reid screw up bad enough, there will be backlash. I'm willing to accept the damage they do because I'm betting they'll be hit by the backlash. Sometimes mules have to be hit on the head with a two by four in order to get their attention. Besides, the laws of economics are against progressives. Thus, they are guaranteed to fail.

Vote Libertarian this year and maybe in 2012 Barr, or someone like him, won't seem too extreme for the mules. :)

[Joemailman]

I'm voting for John McCain...after I vote against him.

[HowardRoark]

The odds that any one person's individual vote will decide a Presidential election either locally or nationally -- especially in a system like ours based on The Electoral College -- are virtually zero.

http://www.rightblueeye.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/Hanging_Chad.jpg

No Matter who wins, they are fucked........might as well let someone with "higher powers" give it a shot.

[Scott Campbell]

...after I vote against him.



Can you really do that? If so, I'm voting against Hillary in November.

[mraynrand]

If this forum is an indication of the nation, the republican party is fracturing like the former Yugoslavia.

BTW, just to extend the metaphor...Tex is Slobodan Milošević.

And to extend it further, you're the U.N.

[mraynrand]

Moreover, if you know anything about statistics, you know that individuals don't matter.

http://vwt.d2g.com:8081/beale.jpg

[mraynrand]

Moreover, if you know anything about statistics, you know that individuals don't matter. They are subsumed by the law of large numbers.

"It is thus necessary that the individual should come to realize that his own ego is of no importance in comparison with the existence of his nation; that the position of the individual ego is conditioned solely by the interests of the nation as a whole."

"We must abolish the cult of the individual decisively, once and for all."

"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society."

[texaspackerbacker]

BTW, just to extend the metaphor...Tex is Slobodan Milošević.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tyrone, If I was Milosevic, you would have been ethnically cleansed by now--instead of the filthy bastard you are.

[bobblehead]

Good for you both. Enjoy House, Senate and White House controlled by Pelosi, Reid, and Obama. If there is still open political talk on the internet in 2012, we can discuss the next Republican you're voting against because he/she isn't perfect.

That is a recipe for a newt gingrich engineered takeover of house and senate in 2010. It worked last time. Then he runs for president in 2012 and reinstates the internet with algores help.

Sure he does. Newt will sail through the media grinder, even without conservative talk radio and restrictions on the internet. Right. The guy who was fucking his girlfriend while his wife was dying, and shut down Congress and allowed thousands of starving children in America die. Get the picture?

I get the picture...I also believe if newt had run he would be up by 10 points. One thing I agree with ty about, there is too much info out there nowdays and if Gingrich is speaking people will listen. Bill had his jizz on a blue dress and won re-election because he was forced to adopt gingrich ideology. If you say and do the things that are right for america you will win...hands down. Only PiP and a few others would vote against a motivated well funded gingrich despite his human failings. See...at the end of the day real conservatives with real values win national elections every time.

gingrich is our last tie to a balanced budget (not a surplus) and that will win in a landslide.

Were you involved in the primary process? Did you work for Gingrich last year to get him to run. The guy had a golden opportunity this past year to run in the primary, but he couldn't get more than luke warm numbers, even when people were souring on the other candidates, like Romney and Giuliani. Why do you think that is? Why didn't he leap in - in the year where his chances would have been the best - with a Republican base looking for a strong conservative. This was his year, but he bailed out. Speaking of bailouts, Gingrich was against the bailout before being for it, despite the most of the modification not addressing the problems he talked about last week. He made sense but now is on board. Why is that?

Uh...he had 20 million pledged within 8 DAYS of announcing it. He dropped it becauase mccain's lawyers started threatening to dismantle human events saying his leadership of that group would violate mccain/feingold. They intended to use the courts to keep him from being able to get on the ballots...sound familiar...yea, that is the guy I want to vote for.

[bobblehead]

Well, Maxie and Bobblehead, you guys have officially gone off the deep end. Fortunately, I don't think there are very many like ya'all.

BTW, I never did get an answer to my question. What is Bob Barr's position on the bail out of Wall Street? Don't worry, even if he's against it, I'm not switching to him.
He is against it, now go vote for mr. amnesty.

[bobblehead]

Well, that made a hell of a lot of sense. I know the problems with McCain. He wasn't my first choice or second choice either. But there is no fucking way in hell I'm going to help elect a second generation campus radical who will give free reign to Pelosi and Reid. Work for 2010, and work in the 2012 primary to get the guy you want, but for shit's sake, how can you actually favor putting Obama in unchecked. boggles the mind.

I disagree with your premises:

First, I am not a Republican who dutifully votes for the Republican candidate however unqualified, however imperfect, however unsatisfactory, however third rate.

Second, my vote for Obama would "help elect" him. This I admit. But my vote for Barr does not help elect Obama.

Third, a Republican President will not necessarily check Pelosi and Reid. This should be evident given that we have a Republican President now and Pelosi and Reid remain unchecked. In fact, President Bush is enabling Pelosi and Reid. McCain has promised to do the same. Not a month ago, he praised them!

Fourth, Pelosi and Reid will be checked by votes against Democrats running for House and Senate seats locally. This I plan to do.

Fifth, working in the primaries for the candidate of your choice didn't do you any good in 2008. Why would it help me in 2010 or 2012? McCain is the joke that is being played on the Republican Party, not Obama. Why don't you join me in abandoning the Republican Party and voting for Barr, a candidate who, I assume, shares the majority of your beliefs and positions?

I disagree with all your points.

First (and Second), I am also not a dutiful Republican. The election though, is between Obama and McCain. Barr will get 1% or less and it will be taken from McCain. So a vote for Barr is a vote for Obama

Third/Fourth, Obama will hardly check Pelosi and Reid. Anyone who has been following the election knows that Repubs are going to lose seats in both houses. There is no chance to counter Reid and Pelosi for control except in the presidency and in the Senate cloture vote, assuming 40 Repubs remain. Sure some bargaining will still take place, but the whole Govt. will be dominated by Dems. Do you see that as a positive?

Fifth, Barr has no chance. Zero. Third parties are a joke. Even the most popular third party candidate of our time got 19% and really affected nothing except to help Clinton get elected. That turned out well, didn't it. Furthermore, a guy like Barr will never get elected in this environment. he's too extreme for the average joe. If he has such great ideas, he should take them to the Repub party and push for his ideas and change the party. it can be done - but it wono't get done believing in the fantasy that electing Obama will return the nation to the right. And even if it did, the probable damage caused by Reid Pelosi and Obama working together might take forever to undo.

See, I disagree...Clinton instead of Bush worked out fine....once he showed his true colors republicans (led by gingrich) took control of the house and senate for the first time in 40 years. Judy Woodruff actually cried on air "the country threw a tantrum tonight" Ah the good old days. And your assuming I think mccain would be a better president than obama....they would both suck, but one would lead the nation back to real conservative policy. (hint...its not mccain)

[mraynrand]

Uh...he had 20 million pledged within 8 DAYS of announcing it. He dropped it becauase mccain's lawyers started threatening to dismantle human events saying his leadership of that group would violate mccain/feingold. They intended to use the courts to keep him from being able to get on the ballots...sound familiar...yea, that is the guy I want to vote for.

I hadn't heard this. Source? If so, couldn't someone else take over as head of Human Events? Why did Newt bail?

[mraynrand]

See, I disagree...Clinton instead of Bush worked out fine....once he showed his true colors republicans (led by gingrich) took control of the house and senate for the first time in 40 years. Judy Woodruff actually cried on air "the country threw a tantrum tonight" Ah the good old days. And your assuming I think mccain would be a better president than obama....they would both suck, but one would lead the nation back to real conservative policy. (hint...its not mccain)

I don't agree. how many new lefty judges did Clinton get installed in the various districts? How many vacancies are there now that Dems have blocked, which Obama will fill? How many attornies did Bubba replace. What happened to the military, etc. But, I think we'll get to see if you are right. Still, it didn't take long to corrupt a lot of the 'Contract with America' crowd...

[Tyrone Bigguns]

BTW, just to extend the metaphor...Tex is Slobodan Milošević.

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Tyrone, If I was Milosevic, you would have been ethnically cleansed by now--instead of the filthy bastard you are.

Don't worry Tex, when Obama is elected i promise to be lenient on your warm crimes.

You will enjoy your golden years in the re-education camp.

[Scott Campbell]

....... i promise to be lenient on your warm crimes.




Uhhhh..........what the fuck are "warm crimes"? :lol:



Shall I google latinamericanstudies.org?

[bobblehead]

Uh...he had 20 million pledged within 8 DAYS of announcing it. He dropped it becauase mccain's lawyers started threatening to dismantle human events saying his leadership of that group would violate mccain/feingold. They intended to use the courts to keep him from being able to get on the ballots...sound familiar...yea, that is the guy I want to vote for.

I hadn't heard this. Source? If so, couldn't someone else take over as head of Human Events? Why did Newt bail?

My only source is when he changed his mind shortly after I got an email from him (as I pledged money) explaining that if he ran it would cripple human events and he thought trying to change the culture of 500,000+ elected officials in the USA is more important than one guy being president. I then did some more research and found the stuff about mccain being behind the threatened lawsuits to shut down human events as unconstitutional under mccain fiengold if its leader ran for president. There was more about keeping him off the ballot with this same logic. If I recall correctly the email also stated he had over 22 million pledged.

[mraynrand]

....... i promise to be lenient on your warm crimes.




Uhhhh..........what the fuck are "warm crimes"? :lol:




Carbon Dioxide emissions. Or farting.

[Cheesehead Craig]

....... i promise to be lenient on your warm crimes.




Uhhhh..........what the fuck are "warm crimes"? :lol:




Carbon Dioxide emissions. Or farting.
Tex isn't that guy who had sex with the dead deer in the woods is he? :lol: