Positives/Negatives

[RashanGary]

Nick Collins is playing great
Tramon Williams looks like a legit starter
Ryan Grant ran the ball hard and effectively
Darryn Colledge did his best job to date at left tackle
Barbre seemed to play solid
Rodgers played with a lot of grit and poise under pressure
Woodson played great. Almost forgot he was there
Driver and Jennings are studs
Humphry had a really nice game
Tausch really bounced back from some spotty performances to have a nice game
Poppinga has been powerfull in the run game and isn't a liablity in the pass game anymore
Patrick Lee did a nice job challenging some passes and not getting picked on



Will Blackmon has still never made one play on defense other than tackling a reciever after he gives up an easy catch. He is a zero. Worst player on the field.

Scott Wells is really bad. He gets consistently man handled.
Nick Barnett, again, looks physically weak and horrible at tackling in space
Pickett and Jolly were consistently shoved out of the middle of the field
Montgomery should not be a starting DE, maybe not even an NFL player
Hawk looks slowed by his injury
The special teams played horribly
McCarthy does not look poised. It's tough to lose, but that's where this team is. His focus should be on getting better not throwing fits.

[Scott Campbell]

Did we run any 3 tight end sets today. I could have sworn I saw Lee, Humphries and Finley out there on the same play.

[Pacopete4]

Did we run any 3 tight end sets today. I could have sworn I saw Lee, Humphries and Finley out there on the same play.



3rd qrt on one drive that package was on the field almost the whole drive.. finley seemed to even make a catch but was ruled incomplete

[RashanGary]

All in all, there are some really good things and some things that are going to hurt us all season long. The defense cannot fix the DL problem. They're just not good enough. The offense can't fix the OL short yardage run problem. They're just not strong enough.

This team just has to keep getting stronger, esspecially in the trenches.

[Kyle.McCarroll]

Did we run any 3 tight end sets today. I could have sworn I saw Lee, Humphries and Finley out there on the same play.



3rd qrt on one drive that package was on the field almost the whole drive.. finley seemed to even make a catch but was ruled incomplete

Finley makes me gag.

[cpk1994]

All in all, there are some really good things and some things that are going to hurt us all season long. The defense cannot fix the DL problem. They're just not good enough. The offense can't fix the OL short yardage run problem. They're just not strong enough.

This team just has to keep getting stronger, esspecially in the trenches.Injuries have killed the DL. THe OL short yardage problem is nothing new. That has been going on for years no matter who is on the line or who the coach is.

[Pacopete4]

Did we run any 3 tight end sets today. I could have sworn I saw Lee, Humphries and Finley out there on the same play.



3rd qrt on one drive that package was on the field almost the whole drive.. finley seemed to even make a catch but was ruled incomplete

Finley makes me gag.



he's that big eh? :?:

[pbmax]

A lot of times penalties add up and jut don't matter. But with the young team and the D's inability to get off the field on 3rd downs (although that stat has improved in the last 2 games) they are currently killing us.

I am not sure we have made a first down after a holding call.

[pbmax]

Will Blackmon has still never made one play on defense other than tackling a reciever after he gives up an easy catch. He is a zero. Worst player on the field.

Scott Wells is really bad. He gets consistently man handled.
Nick Barnett, again, looks physically weak and horrible at tackling in space
Pickett and Jolly were consistently shoved out of the middle of the field
Montgomery should not be a starting DE, maybe not even an NFL player
Hawk looks slowed by his injury
The special teams played horribly
McCarthy does not look poised. It's tough to lose, but that's where this team is. His focus should be on getting better not throwing fits.
I am fine with McCarthy pitching a fit. I like that he got after them this week. Half the team responded. In some ways, the half that hasn't responded should the ones targeted for replacement.

I think Blackmon showed some measure of improvement. He isn't ready for prime time, but he was close. Maddeningly close to make it a letdown when he missed the play/ball.

I think its time for Wells to sit. There hasn't been much of an improvement to the pass pro and the running game has been reasonable without him. I think Grant's health it the biggest uplift. We gained most of our yards pulling someone and going to the outside on several plays.

Barnett's a mystery. Giant step back. But he is suffering from the DTs problems. The D's problems are going to continue if we can't rush the passer.

[DonHutson]

THe OL short yardage problem is nothing new. That has been going on for years no matter who is on the line or who the coach is.

Not that I'm pining for the golden age of Mike Sherman, but short yardage situations were one thing his teams excelled at. Ahman Green on 3rd & 1 was damn near a sure thing.

McCarthy's teams do most things better than Sherman's teams, but the scrawny... I mean, athletic OL they brought in and the zone system itself does not seem to lend itself to converting short yardage first downs. Wells is too small, and Colledge is too weak - therefore at least 40% of your OL gets blown into the backfield.

[Bretsky]

All in all, there are some really good things and some things that are going to hurt us all season long. The defense cannot fix the DL problem. They're just not good enough. The offense can't fix the OL short yardage run problem. They're just not strong enough.

This team just has to keep getting stronger, esspecially in the trenches.


We went into this year with a weaker group at DL in my opinion than last year
.
We went into this year with the same group of OL and a few younger guys

Is it time to consider bringing in a starter via another route generally foreign to us ?

The three games we lost last year......we were dominated in the trenches

We need to win that battle to regain any dominance

[Bretsky]

good topic

[Scott Campbell]

All in all, there are some really good things and some things that are going to hurt us all season long. The defense cannot fix the DL problem. They're just not good enough.



You're probably right. Maybe Harrell comes back and surprises. But those are some long ass odds.

[Partial]

Ruvell Martin does nothing but make plays. Sign me up for RM's fan club BH.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Tramon Williams looks like a legit starter.

He is as good as Al Harris right now, might even be better by end of season.

I think Harris has slipped, his pro-bowl last year was on reputation.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Injuries have killed the DL. THe OL short yardage problem is nothing new. That has been going on for years no matter who is on the line or who the coach is.

injuries and conservative spending by TT

[Bretsky]

Ruvell Martin does nothing but make plays. Sign me up for RM's fan club BH.
\

After about three years of touting BH finally has the group filling up the fingers on the first hand :lol:

[ND72]

Poppinga isn't a liability in the pass game anymore because they take him off the field if they go more than a normal "Pro" look. if they bring in a 3rd WR, Poppinga goes off the field. Plus, the Packers have finally realized he can't cover TE's, so they have essentially made Hawk the SLB, especially on pass downs.

[RashanGary]

quote]


We went into this year with the same group of OL and a few younger guys

Is it time to consider bringing in a starter via another route generally foreign to us ?



HH started a new thread with some possible inside answers that involve some younger players that are developing. Maybe it won't be enough, but change does seem to be needed some way, some how. Patler brought up some interesting points iwth how OL are long developing. Sometimes you can steal one off antoher teams roster when they give up on a player that is just ready to turn the light on or was in a bad overall situation. We got Pickett on the DL that way.

[ND72]

McCarthy does not look poised. It's tough to lose, but that's where this team is. His focus should be on getting better not throwing fits.

McCarthy is trying to light a fire under his young teams ass. I don't think it's that he's lost his poise or anythign like that, I just think he's trying to take a different angle.

[Tony Oday]

O lines are all about playing together.

D lines on the other hand we need to have some more bodies that can play in the NFL. KGB is decent on 3rd downs. Pickett is in the middle thats about it. Jolly could be something good but needs to make some more plays. Montgomery I just dont think is cutting it but I have been wrong before. Kamp looks good still. We need a Grady Jackson Type that can clog the middle and get some penetration.

Our DBs seem to be developing however the injuries at Saftey REALLY hurt us this year so far.

LBs is our deepest position on D. Barnett is having trouble because there is no push from our DTs simple as that.

[Partial]

Positives:

- Strong secondary depth
- Strong receiving depth

Negatives:
- Bad line play (both sides)
- Young QB making young QB mistakes (taking that sack before the 2:00 warning was awful!)
- Linebackers seem to have regressed

[cpk1994]

Injuries have killed the DL. THe OL short yardage problem is nothing new. That has been going on for years no matter who is on the line or who the coach is.

injuries and conservative spending by TTThe second half of your statement is BS. You can have a good OL without breaking the bank. As a counter point the Vikings have spent $100 million on their OL. Still no playoff appearnances and the offense still blows. What you spend has no bearing on how good your line is.

[Rastak]

Injuries have killed the DL. THe OL short yardage problem is nothing new. That has been going on for years no matter who is on the line or who the coach is.

injuries and conservative spending by TTThe second half of your statement is BS. You can have a good OL without breaking the bank. As a counter point the Vikings have spent $100 million on their OL. Still no playoff appearnances and the offense still blows. What you spend has no bearing on how good your line is.


Dude, apples meet oranges. They spent and they led the league in rushing. If you are paying any attention at all you'd realize their issues are QB and WR....but mainly coaching staff.

[RashanGary]

Sadly I think Chicago is the class of the north. They have the best line play. They have the best defense and special teams. Their QB is not good, but he's doing enough.


The Packers and Vikings are equal IMO. They'll both finish about 7-9. The Lions are the worst team in the NFL.

[Bretsky]

Injuries have killed the DL. THe OL short yardage problem is nothing new. That has been going on for years no matter who is on the line or who the coach is.

injuries and conservative spending by TTThe second half of your statement is BS. You can have a good OL without breaking the bank. As a counter point the Vikings have spent $100 million on their OL. Still no playoff appearnances and the offense still blows. What you spend has no bearing on how good your line is.


How long do you give TT his free pass to produce one then ?

[Scott Campbell]

Injuries have killed the DL. THe OL short yardage problem is nothing new. That has been going on for years no matter who is on the line or who the coach is.

injuries and conservative spending by TTThe second half of your statement is BS. You can have a good OL without breaking the bank. As a counter point the Vikings have spent $100 million on their OL. Still no playoff appearnances and the offense still blows. What you spend has no bearing on how good your line is.


How long do you give TT his free pass to produce one then ?


Till next week?

[Zool]

How long do you give TT his free pass to produce one then ?

As opposed to what? Pounding your fist on your computer desk and cursing the mans name? Maybe go to a game with a sign? Free pass makes it sound like we have some sort of pull or decision making power.

[Scott Campbell]

How long do you give TT his free pass to produce one then ?

As opposed to what? Pounding your fist on your computer desk and cursing the mans name? Maybe go to a game with a sign? Free pass makes it sound like we have some sort of pull or decision making power.



Did the angry villagers give Dr. Frankenstein a free pass when he created his monster? Hell no. They grabbed their torches and pitchforks and did something about it.

[Bretsky]

How long do you give TT his free pass to produce one then ?

As opposed to what? Pounding your fist on your computer desk and cursing the mans name? Maybe go to a game with a sign? Free pass makes it sound like we have some sort of pull or decision making power.

OK, let's just kick back with smiles and accept everything without opinions.
Truth be told I'm not remotely angry because my expectations are not that high.

[Scott Campbell]

I think this O line is a disaster, and its long overdue for a couple of moves.

[Carolina_Packer]

Sadly I think Chicago is the class of the north. They have the best line play. They have the best defense and special teams. Their QB is not good, but he's doing enough.


The Packers and Vikings are equal IMO. They'll both finish about 7-9. The Lions are the worst team in the NFL.

It would be between them and the Chiefs, although the Rams are nothing to write home about, unless it's a dysfunctional home.

[Partial]

Injuries have killed the DL. THe OL short yardage problem is nothing new. That has been going on for years no matter who is on the line or who the coach is.

injuries and conservative spending by TTThe second half of your statement is BS. You can have a good OL without breaking the bank. As a counter point the Vikings have spent $100 million on their OL. Still no playoff appearnances and the offense still blows. What you spend has no bearing on how good your line is.

That's a very short sighted statement with one example.

Dallas' line is built up from... you guessed it.. free agency! Are you honestly telling me that our line wouldn't be solidified right now with Faneca, a player who has been to the pro bowl 6 years in a row?!?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Injuries have killed the DL. THe OL short yardage problem is nothing new. That has been going on for years no matter who is on the line or who the coach is.

injuries and conservative spending by TTThe second half of your statement is BS. You can have a good OL without breaking the bank. As a counter point the Vikings have spent $100 million on their OL. Still no playoff appearnances and the offense still blows. What you spend has no bearing on how good your line is.

The injuries and spending referred to the Packer D-line.

But since you are talking O-line, your theory that "what you spend has no bearing on how good your line is" is astonishing. Sounds like Jerry Jones wasted a lot of money assembling that league-best offensive line, he could have gotten the same thing for nothing by simply becoming a believer in the cpk system.

Wait a sec, this all sounds familar, do you have a late night infomercial?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think this O line is a disaster, and its long overdue for a couple of moves.

The problem is: this year I've been moderately surprised by the interior OL. It seems like Clifton and Tauscher have been the weak links. I didn't expect that this year. We did much better yesterday when Barbre went to LG and Colledge to LT. It helped not to have any Clifton penalties in the second half. Tauscher has whiffed on his share of blocks.

[sharpe1027]

Will Blackmon has still never made one play on defense other than tackling a reciever after he gives up an easy catch. He is a zero. Worst player on the field.


He is our best return guy. He is the 4th string CB. He isn't getting stupid penalties. He always seems to be right with his man. I don't recall him giving up any big plays or having mental errors. I remember him breaking up a pass or two.

If he is the worst player on the field, you must be pretty happy with the quality of players this team. :?

[Cheesehead Craig]

I am very impressed with Tramon Williams this year. Since he's come in for Harris he has played very well. That INT of his yesterday was one of the most athletic plays I've seen a DB make. You can just see his confidence and ability grow each week.

[cpk1994]

Injuries have killed the DL. THe OL short yardage problem is nothing new. That has been going on for years no matter who is on the line or who the coach is.

injuries and conservative spending by TTThe second half of your statement is BS. You can have a good OL without breaking the bank. As a counter point the Vikings have spent $100 million on their OL. Still no playoff appearnances and the offense still blows. What you spend has no bearing on how good your line is.


Dude, apples meet oranges. They spent and they led the league in rushing. If you are paying any attention at all you'd realize their issues are QB and WR....but mainly coaching staff.Also their pass protection. That is on the OL. Maybe it wasn't a completely good ciounter point, but the fact remains that you don't have to break the bank to have a good OL and Harlans post about TT conservative spending on the line being a problem is still BS.

[cpk1994]

Injuries have killed the DL. THe OL short yardage problem is nothing new. That has been going on for years no matter who is on the line or who the coach is.

injuries and conservative spending by TTThe second half of your statement is BS. You can have a good OL without breaking the bank. As a counter point the Vikings have spent $100 million on their OL. Still no playoff appearnances and the offense still blows. What you spend has no bearing on how good your line is.

The injuries and spending referred to the Packer D-line.

But since you are talking O-line, your theory that "what you spend has no bearing on how good your line is" is astonishing. Sounds like Jerry Jones wasted a lot of money assembling that league-best offensive line, he could have gotten the same thing for nothing by simply becoming a believer in the cpk system.

Wait a sec, this all sounds familar, do you have a late night infomercial?Well, how about that great line the Packers had under Mike Sherman? They didn't spend much on that line now did they. As I recall Rivera and Wahle left for their big paydays and the rest got their paydays after a couple of years showing that they were a good line.

[Fred's Slacks]

I think this O line is a disaster, and its long overdue for a couple of moves.

The problem is: this year I've been moderately surprised by the interior OL. It seems like Clifton and Tauscher have been the weak links. I didn't expect that this year. We did much better yesterday when Barbre went to LG and Colledge to LT. It helped not to have any Clifton penalties in the second half. Tauscher has whiffed on his share of blocks.

I agree. The thinking was our guard play was going to start to catch up to the tackle play. We didn't foresee the tackle play decline. Wells has been crap too. Tausch has been okay but not as good as last year. I hope Clifton's problem is injury related. It would be nice to get him back to the level he played at last year. That alone would go a long way to fixing our OLine problem.

[Partial]

I would like them to play Spitz at center and Sitton at guard for the rest of the season once healthy. It's time we try to get more powerful up front. At it looks now, we're not going anywhere anyway this year, so might as well get some experience with those guys so we can hit the ground running next year.

[Harlan Huckleby]

get some experience with those guys so we can hit the ground running next year.

actually, I think a revamped line will immediately be better. And maybe much better by December.

Colledge-Barbre-Spitz-Sitton-Tauscher