Were we all fooled?

[Pacopete4]

After seeing our depth so far, were we all fooled by thinking TT knew what the hell he was doing? Our oline hasn't been up and running since he got here and our Dline hasn't improved either... for the GM of the year award winner, shouldn't we expect much more out of him?



Were we also fooled by McCarthy? His play calling and discipline is atrocious. Was he made by #4 being his QB and leader?



sure seems like we were fooled....

[Jimx29]

Me thinks i'm going to have to change my siggy to "Karmas' A Bitch TT"

I've had to say it enough lately....

[cpk1994]

To the rest of the fourm:


:trll:

[BallHawk]

http://www.myspacecomedy.com/images/funny/ban-hamster.jpg

[Pacopete4]

I dont see a problem with discussing why our GM sucks at getting us a good line on both sides of the ball and why our head coach all of a sudden sucks?

[falco]

:roll:

[cpk1994]

:roll:Agreed. I am patient enough to give ARod and M3/TT a chance and at least a full year maybe two before I start questioning the regimes decisions coming into this season.

[Pacopete4]

:roll:Agreed. I am patient enough to give ARod and M3/TT a chance and at least a full year maybe two before I start questioning the regimes decisions coming into this season.


It really doesnt have nething to do with Arod though... Im talking about TT not building us an offensive line, nor defensive line depth. And the other part about MM, do u think hes doing a good job coaching this year?


keep the favre stuff out of this, and just think about our Oline and how really bad it is...

[falco]

:roll:Agreed. I am patient enough to give ARod and M3/TT a chance and at least a full year maybe two before I start questioning the regimes decisions coming into this season.

the decision to trade Favre is irrelevant... a year or two from now Favre will be gone anyway...

M3/TT should be judged based on how well they put together a roster that can win without Favre...any like you said, they've got to have time before one can be judged

they went 13-3 last year... they are transitioning from a HOF QB and have had a rash of injuries to key players (Harris, Jenkins).

In my mind, the only position at which TT has failed is on the OL - and I think part of the problem this year is that not only has he not solidified the interior, but the tackles are now getting old. Everything else, with the possible exception of the center of the D-line, is solid.

[Pacopete4]

but TT has had 4 years now to get a Oline ready and good to go... he's failed big time there... and if u have no online, ur not gonna win many games

[pbmax]

After seeing our depth so far, were we all fooled by thinking TT knew what the hell he was doing? Our oline hasn't been up and running since he got here and our Dline hasn't improved either... for the GM of the year award winner, shouldn't we expect much more out of him?.
The OLine has gotten better each of the last two years. Right now, Clifton and the pass pro is struggling, but run blocking has improved measurably. This is no longer the chief area of concern. I still think it would be an improvement if Spitz could go back to Center and Barbre or Sitton could play guard adequately, but we'll see.

[falco]

but TT has had 4 years now to get a Oline ready and good to go... he's failed big time there... and if u have no online, ur not gonna win many games

so what? he should be canned? I think he's performed well in all other aspects of his job. Very few GM's have done well replacing legendary QBs, and although A-ROD has a lot to prove, I think the future looks bright.

I also think our offensive line got us to 13-3 and let Favre have an MVP year, and Grant rushed for almost 1000 yards in practically half a season. I'm sure you've got a canned response for that as well. :?

[falco]

I noticed during the game (and Bedard mentioned the same thing in his chat) that the line played as well if not better with Clifton out. . . may make for some interesting discussion going forward.

I would like to see them try Colledge / Barbre / Spitz / Sitton / Tauscher. Not sure how Colledge would hold up, but it would be interesting.

[Pacopete4]

but TT has had 4 years now to get a Oline ready and good to go... he's failed big time there... and if u have no online, ur not gonna win many games

so what? he should be canned? I think he's performed well in all other aspects of his job. Very few GM's have done well replacing legendary QBs, and although A-ROD has a lot to prove, I think the future looks bright.

I also think our offensive line got us to 13-3 and let Favre have an MVP year, and Grant rushed for almost 1000 yards in practically half a season. I'm sure you've got a canned response for that as well. :?


ya, where the hell is it this season? maybe ur telling me the blame falls more on MM then? Obviously things aren't going right.. someone is not doing their job... and no, I dont' think TT should be canned... just simply discussing our GM and Head coach... don't make it into a Brett Favre thing, we all know how good he is

[cpk1994]

but TT has had 4 years now to get a Oline ready and good to go... he's failed big time there... and if u have no online, ur not gonna win many games

so what? he should be canned? I think he's performed well in all other aspects of his job. Very few GM's have done well replacing legendary QBs, and although A-ROD has a lot to prove, I think the future looks bright.

I also think our offensive line got us to 13-3 and let Favre have an MVP year, and Grant rushed for almost 1000 yards in practically half a season. I'm sure you've got a canned response for that as well. :?I think the big problem is getting consistency on the line. THe second half of last year they finlly seemed to be coming together, but now you have Wells who can't stay helathy and Clifton is beginning to lose it. WIth injuries to some and age hitting the others its hard to get cohesion.

[falco]

but TT has had 4 years now to get a Oline ready and good to go... he's failed big time there... and if u have no online, ur not gonna win many games

so what? he should be canned? I think he's performed well in all other aspects of his job. Very few GM's have done well replacing legendary QBs, and although A-ROD has a lot to prove, I think the future looks bright.

I also think our offensive line got us to 13-3 and let Favre have an MVP year, and Grant rushed for almost 1000 yards in practically half a season. I'm sure you've got a canned response for that as well. :?


ya, where the hell is it this season? maybe ur telling me the blame falls more on MM then? Obviously things aren't going right.. someone is not doing their job... and no, I dont' think TT should be canned... just simply discussing our GM and Head coach... don't make it into a Brett Favre thing, we all know how good he is

a very good question, one that I can't answer. I would guess a lot of it would have to due with the unsettled line in the preseason due to injuries, and the tackles play is obviously declining. but i think basically they all suck donkey balls at one time or another during the game

[packerbacker1234]

:roll:Agreed. I am patient enough to give ARod and M3/TT a chance and at least a full year maybe two before I start questioning the regimes decisions coming into this season.

the decision to trade Favre is irrelevant... a year or two from now Favre will be gone anyway...

M3/TT should be judged based on how well they put together a roster that can win without Favre...any like you said, they've got to have time before one can be judged

they went 13-3 last year... they are transitioning from a HOF QB and have had a rash of injuries to key players (Harris, Jenkins).

In my mind, the only position at which TT has failed is on the OL - and I think part of the problem this year is that not only has he not solidified the interior, but the tackles are now getting old. Everything else, with the possible exception of the center of the D-line, is solid.

DL depth is horrid. Nothing wrong with the original starting front four, but when montgomery is your every down backup DE, and the next best DT is Colin Cole, there is a problem. It's starting to show too> We can't just keep our top 4 in all game every play and expect pressure, they need rest like everyone else.

[PackerTimer]

There are a number of reasons why I think your argument fails. One is the injuries to the offensive and defensive lines. With the roster limits at 53, it is so hard to have the kind of depth you would need to make up for all of the injuries the Packers have suffered this year. Would this team be better if Harrel, Jenkins, Harris, and Bigby? YES. A lot of teams can make up for a lost of one and maybe two starters but losing three starters and one of the your key rotation guys would absolutely hamper any team in the NFL. TT deserves some blame for taking Harrel with such a questionable injury history but I'm also not quite ready to give up on Harrel yet.

The offensive line has struggled quite a bit, but a lot of the weaknesses have been at the tackle positions. Who would have thought that Clifton and Taucsh would struggle as much as they have? The perceived weakness of our offensive line, the interior, actually has not been fairly good. Colledge and Spitz have both played pretty well this year. Colledge did pretty well filling in for Clifton today.

The bottom line is that injuries on the defensive side of the ball are killing this team. With that many injuries no team would be able to perform at the level they expected to perform at. I think the offense showed some pretty good signs of going in the right direction in the second half. The play calling and execution as a whole was much crisper than it had been the last 10 quarters. But the defense is going to struggle until they get healthy. Hopefully Bigby will be back soon and hopefully Harrell can contribute on the defensive line when he comes back. They need him.

[falco]

:roll:Agreed. I am patient enough to give ARod and M3/TT a chance and at least a full year maybe two before I start questioning the regimes decisions coming into this season.

the decision to trade Favre is irrelevant... a year or two from now Favre will be gone anyway...

M3/TT should be judged based on how well they put together a roster that can win without Favre...any like you said, they've got to have time before one can be judged

they went 13-3 last year... they are transitioning from a HOF QB and have had a rash of injuries to key players (Harris, Jenkins).

In my mind, the only position at which TT has failed is on the OL - and I think part of the problem this year is that not only has he not solidified the interior, but the tackles are now getting old. Everything else, with the possible exception of the center of the D-line, is solid.

DL depth is horrid. Nothing wrong with the original starting front four, but when montgomery is your every down backup DE, and the next best DT is Colin Cole, there is a problem. It's starting to show too> We can't just keep our top 4 in all game every play and expect pressure, they need rest like everyone else.

I liked our DL even with only the 3 tackles, since Jenkins could roll inside on passing downs. The problem was that with only one injury the whole thing has fallen apart.

Let's hope all this chatter about Harrell being in great shape comes true...

[gbgary]

I noticed during the game (and Bedard mentioned the same thing in his chat) that the line played as well if not better with Clifton out. . . may make for some interesting discussion going forward.

I would like to see them try Colledge / Barbre / Spitz / Sitton / Tauscher. Not sure how Colledge would hold up, but it would be interesting.

o-lines are funny. sometimes it's just a chemistry thing. the dallas o-line is a good example. nearly to the man they're a bunch of rejects from other teams that have jelled.

[dissident94]

I'll be ripped for bringing up Favre. But maybe he made the o-line look better than they were last year. He could pre snap read the blitz coming better than A-rod and got the ball out quicker.

I think A-Rod is playing fine for a first year qb. But if we don't make the playoffs their should be torches and pitch forks at TT office for not bringing in a pro bowl QB from a 13-3 team back.

[Pacopete4]

I'll be ripped for bringing up Favre. But maybe he made the o-line look better than they were last year. He could pre snap read the blitz coming better than A-rod and got the ball out quicker.

I think A-Rod is playing fine for a first year qb. But if we don't make the playoffs their should be torches and pitch forks at TT office for not bringing in a pro bowl QB from a 13-3 team back.


I think ur dead on and u will be ripped... but this has definetely someting to do with part of the problem this season but I do think Arod is gonna be a good QB in this league it just sucks that we might've thrown away a year where we coulda really done someting, hindsight is 20/20 though

[PackerTimer]

I'll be ripped for bringing up Favre. But maybe he made the o-line look better than they were last year. He could pre snap read the blitz coming better than A-rod and got the ball out quicker.

I think A-Rod is playing fine for a first year qb. But if we don't make the playoffs their should be torches and pitch forks at TT office for not bringing in a pro bowl QB from a 13-3 team back.

Why? Aaron Rodgers has performed well. If he keeps playing the way he has, we'll have replaced one pro bowl qb with another. He's probably done about as well as Favre would be doing right now. Was our pro-bowl qb going to play on the defensive line also? Some you people don't have a fucking clue.

[PackerTimer]

I'll be ripped for bringing up Favre. But maybe he made the o-line look better than they were last year. He could pre snap read the blitz coming better than A-rod and got the ball out quicker.

I think A-Rod is playing fine for a first year qb. But if we don't make the playoffs their should be torches and pitch forks at TT office for not bringing in a pro bowl QB from a 13-3 team back.


I think ur dead on and u will be ripped... but this has definetely someting to do with part of the problem this season but I do think Arod is gonna be a good QB in this league it just sucks that we might've thrown away a year where we coulda really done someting, hindsight is 20/20 though

The perfect response from the most clueless poster on this forum.

[Pacopete4]

I'll be ripped for bringing up Favre. But maybe he made the o-line look better than they were last year. He could pre snap read the blitz coming better than A-rod and got the ball out quicker.

I think A-Rod is playing fine for a first year qb. But if we don't make the playoffs their should be torches and pitch forks at TT office for not bringing in a pro bowl QB from a 13-3 team back.


I think ur dead on and u will be ripped... but this has definetely someting to do with part of the problem this season but I do think Arod is gonna be a good QB in this league it just sucks that we might've thrown away a year where we coulda really done someting, hindsight is 20/20 though

The perfect response from the most clueless poster on this forum.


theres more to the game that meets the eye bud... havin a QB that can change plays and get u outta bad situations is a huge thing in the NFL and we miss that this season... Arod is playing well, but we do miss that.. I'm not sure whats wrong about sayin that?

[falco]

the defense carried us the first half of the season last year, not brett favre...

hell, we won the philly game thanks to two muffed punts

I think Rodgers performance to date this year has been more than enough to win games

[Pacopete4]

we're talking about why the Oline stinks this season and not last year... not about performances... favre checked outta a lotta bad plays last season that allowed him to not take sacks and to be effective in the run game..

[Harlan Huckleby]

Were we also fooled by McCarthy? His play calling and discipline is atrocious. Was he made by #4 being his QB and leader? .

you are a boring troll

[Pacopete4]

Were we also fooled by McCarthy? His play calling and discipline is atrocious. Was he made by #4 being his QB and leader? .

you are a boring troll



Well explain why McCarthy sucks then?... can u?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'll explain that I feel stupid for resorting to name calling.

Must learn to count to 10 backwards before posting.

[Pacopete4]

I dont get u people... u cannot discuss something about the packers if it is about them being bad at something... if u do, ur not a packer fan... its so fing dumb

[Harlan Huckleby]

your tune never changes. that is called trolling, not discussing.

[Scott Campbell]

Were we also fooled by McCarthy? His play calling and discipline is atrocious. Was he made by #4 being his QB and leader? .

you are a boring troll



Excellent point.

[Pacopete4]

your tune never changes. that is called trolling, not discussing.



how can my tune change? We are 2-3, and just lost to a bad football team. We haven't really played a complete 4 quarters yet and our oline hasn't really improved. Can u please explain to me why my tune would change with all that horshit I've been seeing on the field week in, week out?

[falco]

pacopete is like a douche except afterwards you feel dirtier

[PackerTimer]

I dont get u people... u cannot discuss something about the packers if it is about them being bad at something... if u do, ur not a packer fan... its so fing dumb

That's not it at all. The Packers have been bad, they're 2-3. But you can't just say they are bad and TT sucks and MM sucks without recognizing some factors that are causing the poor play. Injuries are a huge factor. You can't blame TT and MM for that. And the depth argument is weak considering the amount of the injuries. Very few teams have enough depth to cover for injuries to five key defensive players. Losing Jenkins, Harrel, Bigby, Harris, and Rouse is killing the defense right now. Losing that many players would kill any defense. There is a lot of bad luck contributing to this string of 3 straing losses.

Thats one half of it. The other half is the insane notion that some how Rodgers isn't doing enough to win. He's doing everything you could ask of him. It completely asinine to say Rodgers isn't doing enough to win ball games. With the exception of last week, he has done everything you could ask for. Even against Dallas he played a fairly solid game. This week in particular he did more than enough to put them at 3-2.

[falco]

I'll explain that I feel stupid for resorting to name calling.

Must learn to count to 10 backwards before posting.

from what??

you never felt sorry when you called me all those nasty names

[Pacopete4]

alll the insults just prove u are clueless and cannot say anything on the situation.... Are GM is overrated and our coach got sloppy.... proof is happening as we speak

[falco]

alll the insults just prove u are clueless and cannot say anything on the situation.... Are GM is overrated and our coach got sloppy.... proof is happening as we speak

paco, look at all the other times performing poorly?

the colts, the patriots, the eagles, etc, etc

these are teams that are perennial contenders but due to one reason or another are slow out of the gate this year

you can't judge these things off of a few games

[Pacopete4]

alll the insults just prove u are clueless and cannot say anything on the situation.... Are GM is overrated and our coach got sloppy.... proof is happening as we speak

paco, look at all the other times performing poorly?

the colts, the patriots, the eagles, etc, etc

these are teams that are perennial contenders but due to one reason or another are slow out of the gate this year

you can't judge these things off of a few games


So our coach hasn't gotten sloppy? All those penalties and poor play are due to his great coaching abilities?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'll explain that I feel stupid for resorting to name calling.

Must learn to count to 10 backwards before posting.

from what??

you never felt sorry when you called me all those nasty names

I have never felt more alive.

[falco]

alll the insults just prove u are clueless and cannot say anything on the situation.... Are GM is overrated and our coach got sloppy.... proof is happening as we speak

paco, look at all the other times performing poorly?

the colts, the patriots, the eagles, etc, etc

these are teams that are perennial contenders but due to one reason or another are slow out of the gate this year

you can't judge these things off of a few games


So our coach hasn't gotten sloppy? All those penalties and poor play are due to his great coaching abilities?

you're absolutely right...maybe we can cut M3 loose and pickup scott linehan...or wait until the end of the year and get childress...

[Pacopete4]

alll the insults just prove u are clueless and cannot say anything on the situation.... Are GM is overrated and our coach got sloppy.... proof is happening as we speak

paco, look at all the other times performing poorly?

the colts, the patriots, the eagles, etc, etc

these are teams that are perennial contenders but due to one reason or another are slow out of the gate this year

you can't judge these things off of a few games


So our coach hasn't gotten sloppy? All those penalties and poor play are due to his great coaching abilities?

you're absolutely right...maybe we can cut M3 loose and pickup scott linehan...or wait until the end of the year and get childress...


I dont know where I said fire anyone?.... just simply pointing out the team is messy, and that reflects the head coach.... does it not?

[Partial]

the defense carried us the first half of the season last year, not brett favre...

hell, we won the philly game thanks to two muffed punts

I think Rodgers performance to date this year has been more than enough to win games

3 of the 5, yes.

Last year, Favre definitely carried the O in the early wins against NY (late game go ahead drive), SD (game winning TD pass), etc.

[cpk1994]

Were we also fooled by McCarthy? His play calling and discipline is atrocious. Was he made by #4 being his QB and leader? .

you are a boring trollFinally, proof that Im not the only one who thinks this.

[Pacopete4]

well if it makes me a troll thinking TT did a lousy job with creating depth on both sides of the line and that MM is doing a lousy job coaching and preparing this team... then sure... I'm a troll and once they fix these problems, I won't bitch about em... not sure why more people are not upset about it

[Partial]

cpk you are as big of a troll as anybody.

This team is banged up by injuries but wasn't that good even before that. Fortunately, that will be the excuse for the poor perfomance this year instead of Rodgers so it will keep the media attention off of him.

Rodgers makes some really questionable decisions. He throws a lot of dumb balls away when people are open, and took 2 sacks today that I thought were ridiculous. Also, if you're going to throw it away throw it over the LOS.

With that said, Tramon is looking pretty good!

[packerbacker1234]

alll the insults just prove u are clueless and cannot say anything on the situation.... Are GM is overrated and our coach got sloppy.... proof is happening as we speak

paco, look at all the other times performing poorly?

the colts, the patriots, the eagles, etc, etc

these are teams that are perennial contenders but due to one reason or another are slow out of the gate this year

you can't judge these things off of a few games


So our coach hasn't gotten sloppy? All those penalties and poor play are due to his great coaching abilities?

you're absolutely right...maybe we can cut M3 loose and pickup scott linehan...or wait until the end of the year and get childress...

Colts - According to the media it's all due to injuries.
Patriots - Well, media or not, everyone knows it's Tom Brady being done for the year.
Eagles - They have been irrelevant since TO was let go a few years back. They are suppose to be good? Overrated is more like it.

Packers - According to media, Favre is gone, so is the magical seasons. Not that I agree, but the other teams slow out the gates are slow for good reasons. Are reason is....?

[Fred's Slacks]

Are reason is....?

Sloppy play (penalties) and injuries.

To be more specific, this team has been let down by the play of two veterans on the OL. Wells and Clifton. Those were not supposed to be weak spots on this team. I know Clifton is getting older but its not uncommon for OL to play at a high level well into their 30s. I think he's been playing hurt. If so, we need to get him out until he's healthy because he is hurting the team with his sloppy play. That combined with Grant's hold out/injury has lead to poor offensive play.

The poor offensive play put our defense in tough spots and made them play more than they should have which lead to the state they are now in. They are almost unrecognizable. The Harris injury was tough, but Tramon has played well enough to plug the leak until he comes back. It still weakens our nickel and dime defense though. Then the injury to Jenkins and we just don't have another Jenkins on the roster (no team has 2). Pile on the fact that Hawk is nursing a groin and we are down to our 4th safety. Some like to rip our depth but no team has the depth to overcome all of that at one time. Maybe if they are staggered through out the season, but not a one time.

IMO this is why the team is struggling. I do agree to an extent that Rodgers cannot always check to the right play or see the blitz coming the way Favre did. That comes with experience and I fully expected Rodgers to have some growing pains this year. The problem is this team was supposed to be good enough to over come his growing pains and so far the offensive line has disappointed.

[cpk1994]

Are reason is....?

Sloppy play (penalties) and injuries.

To be more specific, this team has been let down by the play of two veterans on the OL. Wells and Clifton. Those were not supposed to be weak spots on this team. I know Clifton is getting older but its not uncommon for OL to play at a high level well into their 30s. I think he's been playing hurt. If so, we need to get him out until he's healthy because he is hurting the team with his sloppy play. That combined with Grant's hold out/injury has lead to poor offensive play.

The poor offensive play put our defense in tough spots and made them play more than they should have which lead to the state they are now in. They are almost unrecognizable. The Harris injury was tough, but Tramon has played well enough to plug the leak until he comes back. It still weakens our nickel and dime defense though. Then the injury to Jenkins and we just don't have another Jenkins on the roster (no team has 2). Pile on the fact that Hawk is nursing a groin and we are down to our 4th safety. Some like to rip our depth but no team has the depth to overcome all of that at one time. Maybe if they are staggered through out the season, but not a one time.

IMO this is why the team is struggling. I do agree to an extent that Rodgers cannot always check to the right play or see the blitz coming the way Favre did. That comes with experience and I fully expected Rodgers to have some growing pains this year. The problem is this team was supposed to be good enough to over come his growing pains and so far the offensive line has disappointed.Good post. I agree with you whole heartedly.

[The Gunshooter]

This team was screwed at the start of training camp with Favre's sorry diva act, Grant's hold out, Williams replacement, gooey Harrell hurt's his lazy ass back trying to make up for missed workouts, Wells is hurt, KGB's knee. Then you mix in shit coaching as evidenced by the incredible amount of penalties and the pussy defense Sanders calls and you have a full scale disaster of a season. It isn't Rodgers for Favre that is the problem although Favre changing his mind really was a calculated pissing match from the get go. No wonder the fucker thinks he is god the way people worship him, it makes me want to puke.

[Merlin]

cpk you are as big of a troll as anybody.

This team is banged up by injuries but wasn't that good even before that. Fortunately, that will be the excuse for the poor perfomance this year instead of Rodgers so it will keep the media attention off of him.

Rodgers makes some really questionable decisions. He throws a lot of dumb balls away when people are open, and took 2 sacks today that I thought were ridiculous. Also, if you're going to throw it away throw it over the LOS.

With that said, Tramon is looking pretty good!

:wave: :bclap: :tup:

[The Gunshooter]

Don't let me forget to mention the great draft TT had, namely his 3 second round busts.

[Fred's Slacks]

Don't let me forget to mention the great draft TT had, namely his 3 second round busts.

That's officially the earliest I've ever heard a draft pick called a bust.

5 games? Seriously?

[Fred's Slacks]

Fortunately, that will be the excuse for the poor perfomance this year instead of Rodgers so it will keep the media attention off of him.

Rodgers makes some really questionable decisions. He throws a lot of dumb balls away when people are open, and took 2 sacks today that I thought were ridiculous. Also, if you're going to throw it away throw it over the LOS.

:lol:

Leave it to Partial. Rodgers has a 95.5 passer rating in his first 5 starts behind a suspect OLine and somehow this is still his fault. You can nitpick and find things wrong with anyone if you want to see it. But Favre never made questionable decisions. :roll:

[sheepshead]

I dont see a problem with discussing why our GM sucks at getting us a good line on both sides of the ball and why our head coach all of a sudden sucks?


I think it's certainly worth discussing. MM is the guy charged with preparation, and with the injuries, penalties and lack of execution, He is failing miserably, thus far, there's still time to salvage the season. But he has a 13-3 team there and this is in no way ARod's fault.

[The Gunshooter]

Don't let me forget to mention the great draft TT had, namely his 3 second round busts.

That's officially the earliest I've ever heard a draft pick called a bust.

5 games? Seriously?

Maybe I was a little severe because I would expect at least one of them to start but they are scrubs who contribute little.

[sheepshead]

Don't let me forget to mention the great draft TT had, namely his 3 second round busts.

That's officially the earliest I've ever heard a draft pick called a bust.

5 games? Seriously?

Maybe I was a little severe because I would expect at least one of them to start but they are scrubs who contribute little.

A rook starting on a 13-3 team is pretty rare if even unheard of.

[MOBB DEEP]

After seeing our depth so far, were we all fooled by thinking TT knew what the hell he was doing? Our oline hasn't been up and running since he got here and our Dline hasn't improved either... for the GM of the year award winner, shouldn't we expect much more out of him?



Were we also fooled by McCarthy? His play calling and discipline is atrocious. Was he made by #4 being his QB and leader?



sure seems like we were fooled....




not i....

ive said tt will go down in infamy; PLAYERS MAKE THE GAME. other than the pats and colts i dont think any of the SB participants since pack/brons had extraordinary brass

[Packnut]

I'll be ripped for bringing up Favre. But maybe he made the o-line look better than they were last year. He could pre snap read the blitz coming better than A-rod and got the ball out quicker.

I think A-Rod is playing fine for a first year qb. But if we don't make the playoffs their should be torches and pitch forks at TT office for not bringing in a pro bowl QB from a 13-3 team back.

Why? Aaron Rodgers has performed well. If he keeps playing the way he has, we'll have replaced one pro bowl qb with another. He's probably done about as well as Favre would be doing right now. Was our pro-bowl qb going to play on the defensive line also? Some you people don't have a fucking clue.

The pot calling the kettle black. You have not clues but FACTS looking you right in the face. Favre made the line look better because he sensed back-side pressure. He knew when to slip slide and glide. This is the same damn line but yet the sacks are up. Did you pay ANY attention yesterday? The Falcon's 3 man rush gave us problems which is freakin unbelievable. I don't know about your world but in mine 3 beating 5 is UNACCEPTABLE!

This is no criticism of Rodgers, but to say he's playing as well as Favre would be if he were still here is just plain DUMB and the FACTS (not your opinion) prove it! Yes, in time Rodgers will gain the needed experience and may very well be a good QB. However, right now he holds the ball to long and does not sense back side pressure very well.

It's the same shit around here, nothing but excuses that don't support the facts. We're 2-3 and our sacks are up and run game is in-consistent. Rodgers is getting beaten like a pinada yet the same guys wanna tell us how our line is improving.

Um, for those of you who don't know it, we were beaten at HOME by a team many considered to be bottom feeders in the NFL. A team who by all accounts and FACTS has been horrible on the road. A team with a rookie QB who was'nt even TOUCHED all day. Yesterday was a freakin DISGRACE.

Now the same guys who ripped Sherman when the injury bug decimated his team are making excuses for Thompson. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Wake up and smell the coffee! No depth and we are just about the weakest team in the NFL on the interior of both our lines. Newsflash for the clowns- the middle is where most games are won or lost............. :idea:

[packrat]

I thought this was supposed to be serious discussion--not a comedy routine. What role are you guys trying out for--Don Rickles? It is impossible to make a REASONED judgment on this team, its GM, coaches, and players, at this point in the season. How the team comes through this will give us a better measure of everyone--including the posters who have been feeding this thread.

[Partial]

Fortunately, that will be the excuse for the poor perfomance this year instead of Rodgers so it will keep the media attention off of him.

Rodgers makes some really questionable decisions. He throws a lot of dumb balls away when people are open, and took 2 sacks today that I thought were ridiculous. Also, if you're going to throw it away throw it over the LOS.

:lol:

Leave it to Partial. Rodgers has a 95.5 passer rating in his first 5 starts behind a suspect OLine and somehow this is still his fault. You can nitpick and find things wrong with anyone if you want to see it. But Favre never made questionable decisions. :roll:

Again, as I have said for the millionth time.. Stats Do Not Tell The Entire Story!

He has played alright. Better than I have expected. But, he is playing like a first year QB, no doubt. He throws a lot of balls away when there are open receivers, he throws some ugly passes (see the cross field pass to Jennings yesterday), and he has taken a ton of sacks where he should have just chucked the ball up.

Yesterday, several drives stalled because of Rodgers bad decision making. For example, we have the intentional grounding call because he didn't throw it past the LOS. We have the 2-3 sacks he took for hanging onto the ball for too long. We have the sack he took with 2:04 left in the 4th quarter rather than throwing the ball through the back of the end zone to get the clock stopped and run another play before the 2:00 warning. There was another ball where driver was open for a big gain on the sideline where Rodgers was running to. Instead of taking a shot down the field to a wide open driver, he tossed it away. It's evident to me that he didn't see him, otherwise he had the easiest 25-30 yard gain of his young career.

That pass to Jennings in double coverage was not a wise decision, but Favre made a career doing that so I can't really fault him for doing what his teacher did.

Favre has the highest QB rating in the league but he has played 2 good games and 2 bad games. Again, stats do not tell the entire story!!!! Throwing 6 TDs in one game is obviously going to pad your stats significantly!

[Bossman641]

I'll be ripped for bringing up Favre. But maybe he made the o-line look better than they were last year. He could pre snap read the blitz coming better than A-rod and got the ball out quicker.

I think A-Rod is playing fine for a first year qb. But if we don't make the playoffs their should be torches and pitch forks at TT office for not bringing in a pro bowl QB from a 13-3 team back.

Why? Aaron Rodgers has performed well. If he keeps playing the way he has, we'll have replaced one pro bowl qb with another. He's probably done about as well as Favre would be doing right now. Was our pro-bowl qb going to play on the defensive line also? Some you people don't have a fucking clue.

The pot calling the kettle black. You have not clues but FACTS looking you right in the face. Favre made the line look better because he sensed back-side pressure. He knew when to slip slide and glide. This is the same damn line but yet the sacks are up. Did you pay ANY attention yesterday? The Falcon's 3 man rush gave us problems which is freakin unbelievable. I don't know about your world but in mine 3 beating 5 is UNACCEPTABLE!

This is no criticism of Rodgers, but to say he's playing as well as Favre would be if he were still here is just plain DUMB and the FACTS (not your opinion) prove it! Yes, in time Rodgers will gain the needed experience and may very well be a good QB. However, right now he holds the ball to long and does not sense back side pressure very well.

It's the same shit around here, nothing but excuses that don't support the facts. We're 2-3 and our sacks are up and run game is in-consistent. Rodgers is getting beaten like a pinada yet the same guys wanna tell us how our line is improving.

Um, for those of you who don't know it, we were beaten at HOME by a team many considered to be bottom feeders in the NFL. A team who by all accounts and FACTS has been horrible on the road. A team with a rookie QB who was'nt even TOUCHED all day. Yesterday was a freakin DISGRACE.

Now the same guys who ripped Sherman when the injury bug decimated his team are making excuses for Thompson. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Wake up and smell the coffee! No depth and we are just about the weakest team in the NFL on the interior of both our lines. Newsflash for the clowns- the middle is where most games are won or lost............. :idea:

How much depth do you expect the packers to have? The team would be fine with the loss of Bigby for a few games, or Jenkins, or Harris.

It's one thing to overcome a loss here or there, but they have been hit at every level of the defense. We're down to the 3rd string safety for god's sake. I guess TT should have Pro Bowlers backing up the starters.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I thought this was supposed to be serious discussion--not a comedy routine.

The joke's on you - this is the whacky-whacky room. Check out the Romper Room for the serious stuff.

[prsnfoto]

I'll be ripped for bringing up Favre. But maybe he made the o-line look better than they were last year. He could pre snap read the blitz coming better than A-rod and got the ball out quicker.

I think A-Rod is playing fine for a first year qb. But if we don't make the playoffs their should be torches and pitch forks at TT office for not bringing in a pro bowl QB from a 13-3 team back.


I think ur dead on and u will be ripped... but this has definetely someting to do with part of the problem this season but I do think Arod is gonna be a good QB in this league it just sucks that we might've thrown away a year where we coulda really done someting, hindsight is 20/20 though

The perfect response from the most clueless poster on this forum.


This coming from the dumbest fuck who knows nothing about football. (see it is so easy to call people names) Rodgers has done fine better than fine for a rookie which is what he really is but he holds the ball eons longer than Favre if you can't see that than you have no business watching a football game cause my 13 year old daughter can see that. That my fine feathered friend is why the line needed to be better this year and your butt buddy TT did not do his job, rookie QB's need good lines so they can see the field and go through their checkdowns it takes time, Favre could do it in his sleep and when Rodgers has had time to do it he has made some great throws. The O-line sucks,the D-line is tired and the LB's are pussies that about sums up our team that is the GM's fault , the penalties are a lack of disipline that is the coach's fault and why I would give both a D right now Rodgers would get B to B+ he ain't the biggest problem. The team would be better with Favre anyone with an ounce of sense knows that but Rodgers is the least of my worries right now.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yesterday, several drives stalled because of Rodgers bad decision making. For example, we have the intentional grounding call because he didn't throw it past the LOS.

That wasn't a bad play. He couldn't have gotten that ball to the LOS without getting picked with the number of defenders on that side of the field and it would have been hard to get it out of bounds because he was being tackled as he was trying to throw it out of bounds. He did what he could. Either he takes a sack or he gets the grounding, but that's no worse than taking the sack. Blame the horrendous whiff by Tauscher on that play.


There was another ball where driver was open for a big gain on the sideline where Rodgers was running to. Instead of taking a shot down the field to a wide open driver, he tossed it away. It's evident to me that he didn't see him, otherwise he had the easiest 25-30 yard gain of his young career.

Another play where we had a great vantage point. Driver was open initially, but the way Rodgers was running, it would have taken too long for him to turn his body and get that throw there in time.

I don't disagree with your overall point. He's made mistakes, but he's not even close to the reason that we are an average team. He made two obvious bad plays yesterday. He missed a wide open Jennings and threw the interception. The other stuff is the same stuff that all QBs will do during games. Of the 12 games I sat through with Favre as QB, there wasn't one where I thought he made every play that was available. He'd miss an open receiver, not see one, not throw it away, force the ball. That stuff happens. The biggest difference is that the team just isn't that great. Nobody is picking each other up. The defense had a shot to stop the Falcons twice and given Rodgers a chance to be the hero. They didn't. The special teams had a chance to step up after we tied it up. Instead they allowed a long kickoff return. McCarthy had a chance to open it up in the first half when we couldn't run, but didn't. Then, he could have stuck to the run in the second half when it was working, but didn't. Rodgers had some plays that he could have made. The punter did poorly. We had 3 points wiped off the board because of a penalty. That was huge.

[GoPackGo]

After seeing our depth so far, were we all fooled by thinking TT knew what the hell he was doing? Our oline hasn't been up and running since he got here and our Dline hasn't improved either... for the GM of the year award winner, shouldn't we expect much more out of him?



Were we also fooled by McCarthy? His play calling and discipline is atrocious. Was he made by #4 being his QB and leader?



sure seems like we were fooled....

I don't feel like I've been fooled. The offense is playing well enough to put up enough points to win, but the defense has to many injuries to play at a high level. If the Packers defense was at 100% they would have had no problem beating Atlanta yesterday. I'm not worried and I still feel like the team is in good hands.

[cpk1994]

Fortunately, that will be the excuse for the poor perfomance this year instead of Rodgers so it will keep the media attention off of him.

Rodgers makes some really questionable decisions. He throws a lot of dumb balls away when people are open, and took 2 sacks today that I thought were ridiculous. Also, if you're going to throw it away throw it over the LOS.

:lol:

Leave it to Partial. Rodgers has a 95.5 passer rating in his first 5 starts behind a suspect OLine and somehow this is still his fault. You can nitpick and find things wrong with anyone if you want to see it. But Favre never made questionable decisions. :roll:ANd Favre never got called for intenional grounding either. :roll:

[PackerTimer]

I'll be ripped for bringing up Favre. But maybe he made the o-line look better than they were last year. He could pre snap read the blitz coming better than A-rod and got the ball out quicker.

I think A-Rod is playing fine for a first year qb. But if we don't make the playoffs their should be torches and pitch forks at TT office for not bringing in a pro bowl QB from a 13-3 team back.


I think ur dead on and u will be ripped... but this has definetely someting to do with part of the problem this season but I do think Arod is gonna be a good QB in this league it just sucks that we might've thrown away a year where we coulda really done someting, hindsight is 20/20 though

The perfect response from the most clueless poster on this forum.


This coming from the dumbest fuck who knows nothing about football. (see it is so easy to call people names) Rodgers has done fine better than fine for a rookie which is what he really is but he holds the ball eons longer than Favre if you can't see that than you have no business watching a football game cause my 13 year old daughter can see that. That my fine feathered friend is why the line needed to be better this year and your butt buddy TT did not do his job, rookie QB's need good lines so they can see the field and go through their checkdowns it takes time, Favre could do it in his sleep and when Rodgers has had time to do it he has made some great throws. The O-line sucks,the D-line is tired and the LB's are pussies that about sums up our team that is the GM's fault , the penalties are a lack of disipline that is the coach's fault and why I would give both a D right now Rodgers would get B to B+ he ain't the biggest problem. The team would be better with Favre anyone with an ounce of sense knows that but Rodgers is the least of my worries right now.

You do know that you just repeated most of what I've been saying, right? I've repeatedly said that Rodger has been about as good as we could expect and about, i.e. not quite as good as Favre. Favre didn't make the line look that much better, they are just playing much, much worse than they were last year. Our offensive problems go a lot deeper than Aaron Rodgers, in fact he's probably one of our least concerns right now. The defensive problems have a lot to do wint injury. My problem lately has been with people who have been putting way too much blame on Rodgers for our current situation.

[Partial]

Yesterday, several drives stalled because of Rodgers bad decision making. For example, we have the intentional grounding call because he didn't throw it past the LOS.

That wasn't a bad play. He couldn't have gotten that ball to the LOS without getting picked with the number of defenders on that side of the field and it would have been hard to get it out of bounds because he was being tackled as he was trying to throw it out of bounds. He did what he could. Either he takes a sack or he gets the grounding, but that's no worse than taking the sack. Blame the horrendous whiff by Tauscher on that play.


There was another ball where driver was open for a big gain on the sideline where Rodgers was running to. Instead of taking a shot down the field to a wide open driver, he tossed it away. It's evident to me that he didn't see him, otherwise he had the easiest 25-30 yard gain of his young career.

Another play where we had a great vantage point. Driver was open initially, but the way Rodgers was running, it would have taken too long for him to turn his body and get that throw there in time.

I don't disagree with your overall point. He's made mistakes, but he's not even close to the reason that we are an average team. He made two obvious bad plays yesterday. He missed a wide open Jennings and threw the interception. The other stuff is the same stuff that all QBs will do during games. Of the 12 games I sat through with Favre as QB, there wasn't one where I thought he made every play that was available. He'd miss an open receiver, not see one, not throw it away, force the ball. That stuff happens. The biggest difference is that the team just isn't that great. Nobody is picking each other up. The defense had a shot to stop the Falcons twice and given Rodgers a chance to be the hero. They didn't. The special teams had a chance to step up after we tied it up. Instead they allowed a long kickoff return. McCarthy had a chance to open it up in the first half when we couldn't run, but didn't. Then, he could have stuck to the run in the second half when it was working, but didn't. Rodgers had some plays that he could have made. The punter did poorly. We had 3 points wiped off the board because of a penalty. That was huge.

That's a fair post. Yesterday is not a game where I thought the result would have been any different with Favre. Atlanta is a surprisingly good team with a very good running game and pass rush. The young QB has some moxy and seems to make plays.

[Partial]

Fortunately, that will be the excuse for the poor perfomance this year instead of Rodgers so it will keep the media attention off of him.

Rodgers makes some really questionable decisions. He throws a lot of dumb balls away when people are open, and took 2 sacks today that I thought were ridiculous. Also, if you're going to throw it away throw it over the LOS.

:lol:

Leave it to Partial. Rodgers has a 95.5 passer rating in his first 5 starts behind a suspect OLine and somehow this is still his fault. You can nitpick and find things wrong with anyone if you want to see it. But Favre never made questionable decisions. :roll:ANd Favre never got called for intenional grounding either. :roll:

Dude, quit trolling. I made a completely fair and objective post about that. Hell, I even criticized Favre, but you completely disregard that just to pad your post count and make yourself feel better with a sarcastic statement. That's bush league, guy.

[cpk1994]

Fortunately, that will be the excuse for the poor perfomance this year instead of Rodgers so it will keep the media attention off of him.

Rodgers makes some really questionable decisions. He throws a lot of dumb balls away when people are open, and took 2 sacks today that I thought were ridiculous. Also, if you're going to throw it away throw it over the LOS.

:lol:

Leave it to Partial. Rodgers has a 95.5 passer rating in his first 5 starts behind a suspect OLine and somehow this is still his fault. You can nitpick and find things wrong with anyone if you want to see it. But Favre never made questionable decisions. :roll:And Favre never got called for intenional grounding either. :roll:

Dude, quit trolling. I made a completely fair and objective post about that. Hell, I even criticized Favre, but you completely disregard that just to pad your post count and make yourself feel better with a sarcastic statement. That's bush league, guy.

1. I don't give a damn about my post count, so you fail there.

2, all I did was agree with Fred., so you fail there.

3, I don't post on this forum to make myself feel better, especially when their are better things to do that can make me feel better.

I guess what I am saying is that you really don't know me.

[ZachMN]

My feeling is 13-3 wasn't indicative of what this team really was which was closer to 10-6 or 9-7. Some of you will no doubt say that was all Favre but they won a lot of close games last year and for what its worth we are still young and are having a slump. After 16 games we will see where we stand.

So to put it another way I think the expectations were way to high from over acheiving last year.

[bobblehead]

I'll be ripped for bringing up Favre. But maybe he made the o-line look better than they were last year. He could pre snap read the blitz coming better than A-rod and got the ball out quicker.

I think A-Rod is playing fine for a first year qb. But if we don't make the playoffs their should be torches and pitch forks at TT office for not bringing in a pro bowl QB from a 13-3 team back.

Why? Aaron Rodgers has performed well. If he keeps playing the way he has, we'll have replaced one pro bowl qb with another. He's probably done about as well as Favre would be doing right now. Was our pro-bowl qb going to play on the defensive line also? Some you people don't have a fucking clue.

The pot calling the kettle black. You have not clues but FACTS looking you right in the face. Favre made the line look better because he sensed back-side pressure. He knew when to slip slide and glide. This is the same damn line but yet the sacks are up. Did you pay ANY attention yesterday? The Falcon's 3 man rush gave us problems which is freakin unbelievable. I don't know about your world but in mine 3 beating 5 is UNACCEPTABLE!

This is no criticism of Rodgers, but to say he's playing as well as Favre would be if he were still here is just plain DUMB and the FACTS (not your opinion) prove it! Yes, in time Rodgers will gain the needed experience and may very well be a good QB. However, right now he holds the ball to long and does not sense back side pressure very well.

It's the same shit around here, nothing but excuses that don't support the facts. We're 2-3 and our sacks are up and run game is in-consistent. Rodgers is getting beaten like a pinada yet the same guys wanna tell us how our line is improving.

Um, for those of you who don't know it, we were beaten at HOME by a team many considered to be bottom feeders in the NFL. A team who by all accounts and FACTS has been horrible on the road. A team with a rookie QB who was'nt even TOUCHED all day. Yesterday was a freakin DISGRACE.

Now the same guys who ripped Sherman when the injury bug decimated his team are making excuses for Thompson. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Wake up and smell the coffee! No depth and we are just about the weakest team in the NFL on the interior of both our lines. Newsflash for the clowns- the middle is where most games are won or lost............. :idea:

Anyone with eyes can see that for some reason clifton isn't the same player he has been. come on, you really think favre made them look THAT good?

[sheepshead]

My feeling is 13-3 wasn't indicative of what this team really was which was closer to 10-6 or 9-7. Some of you will no doubt say that was all Favre but they won a lot of close games last year and for what its worth we are still young and are having a slump. After 16 games we will see where we stand.

So to put it another way I think the expectations were way to high from over acheiving last year.

This is really a puzzling post. How can a 13-3 team be closer to 9-7? What sort of twisted logic is this?

[The Gunshooter]

Don't let me forget to mention the great draft TT had, namely his 3 second round busts.

That's officially the earliest I've ever heard a draft pick called a bust.

5 games? Seriously?

Maybe I was a little severe because I would expect at least one of them to start but they are scrubs who contribute little.

A rook starting on a 13-3 team is pretty rare if even unheard of.

You mean to say a rookie starting on a team that was 13-3 the year before is rare even though they are decimated by injury this year? I could cut Brohm right now and not miss a second of sleep over it. I am just saying everything had to fall just exactly wrong to be 2-3 right now and the draft is part of it.

[retailguy]

Well, here we go again... :P

Ok, lets let the Rodgers/Favre crap stop. Anyone who watched the game yesterday knows that Aaron Rodgers was NOT the reason we lost. Anyone who watched the game yesterday should also know it would be unlikely that we'd have won if Favre was behind center.

The problems with the game yesterday were many. I'd boil it down to 3 big ones from my vantage point.

1. Offensive Line
2. Defensive Line
3. Playcalling

1 - Our offensive line stinks. It has stunk in my opinion since we lost both guards in 2005. Someone talked about "jelling". BINGO. These guys are good players, I think, but they don't play well TOGETHER. They aren't on the same page. People are bitching about Cliffy. Maybe he's losing it, maybe he isn't, but face facts, neither Tauscher nor Clifton are "prototypes" for this system. They really aren't able to play to their strengths because that's not what's needed here. Clifton has always been an excellent pass blocker but always mediocre at run blocking. Adequate? Certainly. All-pro, never. Not at run blocking. Tauscher seems to have adapted better, but is now called for the occasional holding penalty. I am not sure that Tauscher EVER had a holding penalty during the Sherman years. So, he's adapted, but it's had an impact.

The guards? Well, I've never liked Colledge as a guard. I agree with those who said he held down the fort yesterday after Cliffy went out. Is he better than Cliffy? No. Not even close. Maybe he can be. He looks a hell of a lot more comfortable at tackle than he ever has at guard. Spitz? Ok, but out of place, much better center. Better center than Wells, I think, however, they think he's a better guard than Wells. I'm not so sure. I remember Wells doing a very capable job filling in at center in 2006? I don't know why they don't try that again until they feel Barbre or Sitton is ready. (right now neither are ready).

Wells played better last year than this year, but to be fair, we should wait a few more weeks before complaining as he has been hurt. Probably still not close to 100% and definitely not had enough practice time yet to be sharp.

2. DL - Jenkins was a huge loss. Williams, who looked like he was expendable wasn't. Jolly has been solid, but not like last year. Kampman is still Kampman. Pickett? where would this defense be without him? :shudder:. KGB is almost done, I think. Looks like he might not come back from this latest injury. Cole is always going to be mediocre and the younger guys prove that it's damn difficult to find talent that makes it. That's why I was against the Williams trade. Yes, the contract issues.... He'd have played for the tender. He wouldn't like it, but he'd have played. I think we need the production/security more than the draft pick... but that's just me.

3. Playcalling. I think McCarthy has lost some of his "moxie". He seems less willing to take chances this year. It's more predictable. More "safe". Maybe he's protecting Rodgers. Maybe he's too reliant on the "system". Maybe he's obstinate and is going to "keep making it work" rather than going with what seems to be working at the time. Yesterday's game plan at a high level seemed to be "run, run, pass, punt". Jokingly, it reminded me of the 70's. NO RISK. but no reward. Yes, I understand he was trying to "set up the run". Yes, I get it. And he did, eventually. Grant and Jackson ran well in the second half. But, by then, we had other issues. What happened to the screen pass? Didn't see much yesterday. Lots of dump offs to the TE though when no one seemed to be open. But that last drive? Different plan entirely. Yes, I know the Falcons were in the "prevent", but still, much better gameplan! Not totally pass, but it worked.

I'm not impressed with McCarthy the coach, nor McCarthy the playcaller to this point. Maybe this is the cost for training the young QB? I don't know. Too soon to say it's anything serious, but, soon enough to pay attention. Rodgers is progressing well, overall I think. McCarthy does get credit for that.

I do blame Thompson for the play of the lines, but I also blame the system. We don't have a good system for the OL, nor a good coach to teach it. Philbin learned for ONE YEAR from a guy who learned for TWO. Yeah. The DL? Well, it needs certain personnel to create pressure, and we don't have and haven't had those types of people to really make it work.

[sheepshead]

Don't let me forget to mention the great draft TT had, namely his 3 second round busts.

That's officially the earliest I've ever heard a draft pick called a bust.

5 games? Seriously?

Maybe I was a little severe because I would expect at least one of them to start but they are scrubs who contribute little.

A rook starting on a 13-3 team is pretty rare if even unheard of.

You mean to say a rookie starting on a team that was 13-3 the year before is rare even though they are decimated by injury this year? I could cut Brohm right now and not miss a second of sleep over it. I am just saying everything had to fall just exactly wrong to be 2-3 right now and the draft is part of it.

Decimated? I would have to look at your new assumption position by position. I was speaking in general. Harrel and Jenkins you mean? The only DE was Thompson in the 5th round I think??

We need a vet qb , no question. All three of these guys will not be a starting QB for the Packers, so cut one now.

[Gunakor]

but TT has had 4 years now to get a Oline ready and good to go... he's failed big time there... and if u have no online, ur not gonna win many games


The biggest problem on the O-Line this year has been Chad Clifton. Save for the first game, where he handled Jared Allen very well, Cliffy has been the weakest link on that line. Are you going to blame TT for that one too?

I got an idea. How about instead of blaming TT for lack of execution, we blame the PLAYERS for not executing.

[cheesner]

The pot calling the kettle black. You have not clues but FACTS looking you right in the face. Favre made the line look better because he sensed back-side pressure. He knew when to slip slide and glide. This is the same damn line but yet the sacks are up. Did you pay ANY attention yesterday? The Falcon's 3 man rush gave us problems which is freakin unbelievable. I don't know about your world but in mine 3 beating 5 is UNACCEPTABLE!

This is no criticism of Rodgers, but to say he's playing as well as Favre would be if he were still here is just plain DUMB and the FACTS (not your opinion) prove it! Yes, in time Rodgers will gain the needed experience and may very well be a good QB. However, right now he holds the ball to long and does not sense back side pressure very well.

It's the same shit around here, nothing but excuses that don't support the facts. We're 2-3 and our sacks are up and run game is in-consistent. Rodgers is getting beaten like a pinada yet the same guys wanna tell us how our line is improving.

Um, for those of you who don't know it, we were beaten at HOME by a team many considered to be bottom feeders in the NFL. A team who by all accounts and FACTS has been horrible on the road. A team with a rookie QB who was'nt even TOUCHED all day. Yesterday was a freakin DISGRACE.

Now the same guys who ripped Sherman when the injury bug decimated his team are making excuses for Thompson. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Wake up and smell the coffee! No depth and we are just about the weakest team in the NFL on the interior of both our lines. Newsflash for the clowns- the middle is where most games are won or lost............. :idea:

FACTS! You have FACTS?!?! You will have to excuse the rest of us who don't have access to parallel universes and cannot watch a game in which Favre was QBing the Packers last weekend. Therefore we cannont judge with 'FACTS' how each QB performs under the same exact circumstances.

Aren't the Falcons, by the way, the same team to destroyed Favre's team at home in a playoff game a few years ago? Despite being heavy underdogs and the Packers had never loss a playoff game at home? And the Falcons whipped the Packers 27-7? Are these facts? Does this mean that AR (who scored 24 pts) is 3.43x better than Favre?


:roll:

[Pacopete4]

The pot calling the kettle black. You have not clues but FACTS looking you right in the face. Favre made the line look better because he sensed back-side pressure. He knew when to slip slide and glide. This is the same damn line but yet the sacks are up. Did you pay ANY attention yesterday? The Falcon's 3 man rush gave us problems which is freakin unbelievable. I don't know about your world but in mine 3 beating 5 is UNACCEPTABLE!

This is no criticism of Rodgers, but to say he's playing as well as Favre would be if he were still here is just plain DUMB and the FACTS (not your opinion) prove it! Yes, in time Rodgers will gain the needed experience and may very well be a good QB. However, right now he holds the ball to long and does not sense back side pressure very well.

It's the same shit around here, nothing but excuses that don't support the facts. We're 2-3 and our sacks are up and run game is in-consistent. Rodgers is getting beaten like a pinada yet the same guys wanna tell us how our line is improving.

Um, for those of you who don't know it, we were beaten at HOME by a team many considered to be bottom feeders in the NFL. A team who by all accounts and FACTS has been horrible on the road. A team with a rookie QB who was'nt even TOUCHED all day. Yesterday was a freakin DISGRACE.

Now the same guys who ripped Sherman when the injury bug decimated his team are making excuses for Thompson. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Wake up and smell the coffee! No depth and we are just about the weakest team in the NFL on the interior of both our lines. Newsflash for the clowns- the middle is where most games are won or lost............. :idea:

FACTS! You have FACTS?!?! You will have to excuse the rest of us who don't have access to parallel universes and cannot watch a game in which Favre was QBing the Packers last weekend. Therefore we cannont judge with 'FACTS' how each QB performs under the same exact circumstances.

Aren't the Falcons, by the way, the same team to destroyed Favre's team at home in a playoff game a few years ago? Despite being heavy underdogs and the Packers had never loss a playoff game at home? And the Falcons whipped the Packers 27-7? Are these facts? Does this mean that AR (who scored 24 pts) is 3.43x better than Favre?


:roll:



Favre is better than Rodgers... ur clueless if u think otherwise... but that was NOT WHAT MY POST WAS ABOUT PEOPLE!!... IT FUCKING HAD ZERO TO DO WITH WHY TT/MM ARE FUCKING UP... GET THAT THRU UR FUCKING HEADS....

[cheesner]

Favre is better than Rodgers... ur clueless if u think otherwise... but that was NOT WHAT MY POST WAS ABOUT PEOPLE!!... IT FUCKING HAD ZERO TO DO WITH WHY TT/MM ARE FUCKING UP... GET THAT THRU UR FUCKING HEADS....
First - I wasn't responding you you
Second - All your posts are about the same thing - we all get it. You hate TT
Third - You're living in the past, If you even consider the future you are very short sighted.

[Pacopete4]

Favre is better than Rodgers... ur clueless if u think otherwise... but that was NOT WHAT MY POST WAS ABOUT PEOPLE!!... IT FUCKING HAD ZERO TO DO WITH WHY TT/MM ARE FUCKING UP... GET THAT THRU UR FUCKING HEADS....

First - I wasn't responding you you
Second - All your posts are about the same thing - we all get it. You hate TT
Third - You're living in the past, If you even consider the future you are very short sighted.


1- I wasn't talking to just u
2- If things with the Packers changed, my posts would change but until they do that, I will continue to think TT is an over rated GM that didnt get the right pieces in here to put this team in position to win a SB
3- Living in the past? I'm talking this years team and ur talking about Brett Favre... whos living in the past buddy

[SkinBasket]

We were all fooled into thinking people on this forum would be mentally stable enough to handle some losses this year without being big fat headed poopy pants babies about it. So to answer your question: Yes, we were fooled and we all feel ashamed.

[Pacopete4]

some losses? ha.....

[Gunakor]

Favre is better than Rodgers... ur clueless if u think otherwise... but that was NOT WHAT MY POST WAS ABOUT PEOPLE!!... IT FUCKING HAD ZERO TO DO WITH WHY TT/MM ARE FUCKING UP... GET THAT THRU UR FUCKING HEADS....

First - I wasn't responding you you
Second - All your posts are about the same thing - we all get it. You hate TT
Third - You're living in the past, If you even consider the future you are very short sighted.


1- I wasn't talking to just u
2- If things with the Packers changed, my posts would change but until they do that, I will continue to think TT is an over rated GM that didnt get the right pieces in here to put this team in position to win a SB
3- Living in the past? I'm talking this years team and ur talking about Brett Favre... whos living in the past buddy

Can't blame TT for the players not executing. It's not TT's fault if the pieces he's put in place haven't lived up to thier potential. You keep ripping the O-Line, but the biggest problem on the O-Line this year has been Chad Clifton, not the guards. TT had nothing to do with the aquisiton of Clifton, and has no control over how well Cliffy plays. What is he supposed to do? In your mind, what is the correct path for a competent GM in this situation?

You complain about not having enough depth, but when 2 starters in the secondary and 2 starters on the D-Line and a starter on the O-Line are injured - as well as some of thier backups on top of it - you aren't going to see the same level of production. It just doesn't happen. If you define depth as having backups that will play at exactly the same level as the starters then you are correct in that we don't have much depth. Most teams do not have backups that will come in and give the same level of production as the player they are replacing. T-Will doing a bang up job filling in for Al Harris has been more than suprising. When Justin Harrell gets off PUP after week 6 then we will have more depth on the DL. When Josh Sitton gets healthy again we will have better depth on the OL. When Aaron Rouse gets healthy again we will have better depth in the secondary. These aren't starters, they are backups - they are part of the depth we have here and they are injured too. That's not TT's fault. So I ask again, what would you, being a competent GM and all, do in this situation?

[Scott Campbell]

2- If things with the Packers changed, my posts would change.......



I don't believe you.

[SkinBasket]

some losses? ha.....

Yes. Some losses. I'm not sure what makes that humorous to you.

[Pacopete4]

some losses? ha.....

Yes. Some losses. I'm not sure what makes that humorous to you. just the word some... we will have more than some the way this team is built

[Gunakor]

some losses? ha.....

Yes. Some losses. I'm not sure what makes that humorous to you. just the word some... we will have more than some the way this team is built


How is this team built, Mr. Observant? You don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. As I quite clearly laid out in my previous post, it's not just the starters that are injured. Thier backups are injured too. The problem isn't a lack of depth, it's that our depth has been hammered with injury along with the starters. Plan C isn't going to look like Plan A.

By the way, I'm still waiting on you to enlighten all of us on how a competent GM like yourself would have handled this situation.

[Bossman641]

some losses? ha.....

Yes. Some losses. I'm not sure what makes that humorous to you. just the word some... we will have more than some the way this team is built


How is this team built, Mr. Observant? You don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. As I quite clearly laid out in my previous post, it's not just the starters that are injured. Thier backups are injured too. The problem isn't a lack of depth, it's that our depth has been hammered with injury along with the starters. Plan C isn't going to look like Plan A.

By the way, I'm still waiting on you to enlighten all of us on how a competent GM like yourself would have handled this situation.

Lemme give you his response

"Favre favre favre....TT sucks....Favre favre favre.....TT sucks"

Does that cover it for you?

Pete doesn't care that the team has been decimated by injury. That never would have happened with Favre around. Favre would have placed his hands on the wounded's body parts and they would become healthy again.

[MOBB DEEP]

but TT has had 4 years now to get a Oline ready and good to go... he's failed big time there... and if u have no online, ur not gonna win many games


The biggest problem on the O-Line this year has been Chad Clifton. Save for the first game, where he handled Jared Allen very well, Cliffy has been the weakest link on that line. Are you going to blame TT for that one too?

I got an idea. How about instead of blaming TT for lack of execution, we blame the PLAYERS for not executing.

conversely, when they execute well lets give the PLAYERS their due (e.g., 13-3); tt has never played a down...

[MOBB DEEP]

The pot calling the kettle black. You have not clues but FACTS looking you right in the face. Favre made the line look better because he sensed back-side pressure. He knew when to slip slide and glide. This is the same damn line but yet the sacks are up. Did you pay ANY attention yesterday? The Falcon's 3 man rush gave us problems which is freakin unbelievable. I don't know about your world but in mine 3 beating 5 is UNACCEPTABLE!

This is no criticism of Rodgers, but to say he's playing as well as Favre would be if he were still here is just plain DUMB and the FACTS (not your opinion) prove it! Yes, in time Rodgers will gain the needed experience and may very well be a good QB. However, right now he holds the ball to long and does not sense back side pressure very well.

It's the same shit around here, nothing but excuses that don't support the facts. We're 2-3 and our sacks are up and run game is in-consistent. Rodgers is getting beaten like a pinada yet the same guys wanna tell us how our line is improving.

Um, for those of you who don't know it, we were beaten at HOME by a team many considered to be bottom feeders in the NFL. A team who by all accounts and FACTS has been horrible on the road. A team with a rookie QB who was'nt even TOUCHED all day. Yesterday was a freakin DISGRACE.

Now the same guys who ripped Sherman when the injury bug decimated his team are making excuses for Thompson. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Wake up and smell the coffee! No depth and we are just about the weakest team in the NFL on the interior of both our lines. Newsflash for the clowns- the middle is where most games are won or lost............. :idea:

FACTS! You have FACTS?!?! You will have to excuse the rest of us who don't have access to parallel universes and cannot watch a game in which Favre was QBing the Packers last weekend. Therefore we cannont judge with 'FACTS' how each QB performs under the same exact circumstances.

Aren't the Falcons, by the way, the same team to destroyed Favre's team at home in a playoff game a few years ago? Despite being heavy underdogs and the Packers had never loss a playoff game at home? And the Falcons whipped the Packers 27-7? Are these facts? Does this mean that AR (who scored 24 pts) is 3.43x better than Favre?


:roll:


atl playoff loss is all about VICK DA GREAT'S coming out party. it was inevitable...brett/team gets a pass on that one

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I noticed during the game (and Bedard mentioned the same thing in his chat) that the line played as well if not better with Clifton out. . . may make for some interesting discussion going forward.

I would like to see them try Colledge / Barbre / Spitz / Sitton / Tauscher. Not sure how Colledge would hold up, but it would be interesting.

o-lines are funny. sometimes it's just a chemistry thing. the dallas o-line is a good example. nearly to the man they're a bunch of rejects from other teams that have jelled.

This is patently false.

Flozell was drafted by them.

Davis wasn't succesful at tackly, but fairly good at guard with the Cards, but they didn't want to pay him. He was hardly a reject of the Cards.

Gurode was drafted by them.

Proctor was drafted by them. Kosier was a 7th rounder that played for 3 years for the Niners.

Colombo was injury plagued with the bears. He is healthy now and plays like a high pick.

[Gunakor]

but TT has had 4 years now to get a Oline ready and good to go... he's failed big time there... and if u have no online, ur not gonna win many games


The biggest problem on the O-Line this year has been Chad Clifton. Save for the first game, where he handled Jared Allen very well, Cliffy has been the weakest link on that line. Are you going to blame TT for that one too?

I got an idea. How about instead of blaming TT for lack of execution, we blame the PLAYERS for not executing.

conversely, when they execute well lets give the PLAYERS their due (e.g., 13-3); tt has never played a down...


LIES!!!

TT played LB for the Houston Oilers from '75-'84. He wasn't a starter, only started 8 games over that time, but he played in 146 games over that timespan. I don't have a number for exactly how many downs he's played, but over 146 games I'm sure he's seen one or two.


I agree that when the players perform well they should get credit for it. I don't know where this came from, however, because I don't recall anyone at all denying players credit for going 13-3 last year or for thier 2 wins this year.

I give TT credit for putting together a helluva roster, which unfortunately has been decimated by injury thus far in the season. I give MM credit for putting together a gameplan that allows us an opportunity to win. The players get credit for executing that gameplan on gameday. I give blame the same way. That said, here's how I see it...

TT) He's put together a good roster that is just a few pieces away from SB contention. Same roster as last year, save one sure HOF QB that has been replaced by one potential PB QB. QB is not the problem, injuries are. Can't blame TT for injuries, so can't blame TT.

MM) He's put together gameplans that have kept us in games. The 2 games we lost were both very close and could have been swayed in our favor just by playing smart and not committing penalties. His playcalling has been questionable at times, but we are never really out of a game. I give partial blame to MM, but there's only so much even he can do.

I give the lions share of the blame to the players. Blame for lack of execution. Blame for losing focus and committing stupid penalties. WR's and RB's get blame for dropped passes, LB's and DB's get blame for missed tackles. Basically, our play has been SLOPPY. The onus is on the PLAYERS to get better. They are plenty talented, but they need to focus on the fundamentals like wrapping up to make a tackle or looking the ball into thier hands when making a catch. Be mentally focused so they aren't called for stupid penalties every other play. If they do that we'll be just fine.

[The Gunshooter]

Don't let me forget to mention the great draft TT had, namely his 3 second round busts.

That's officially the earliest I've ever heard a draft pick called a bust.

5 games? Seriously?

Maybe I was a little severe because I would expect at least one of them to start but they are scrubs who contribute little.

A rook starting on a 13-3 team is pretty rare if even unheard of.

You mean to say a rookie starting on a team that was 13-3 the year before is rare even though they are decimated by injury this year? I could cut Brohm right now and not miss a second of sleep over it. I am just saying everything had to fall just exactly wrong to be 2-3 right now and the draft is part of it.

Decimated? I would have to look at your new assumption position by position. I was speaking in general. Harrel and Jenkins you mean? The only DE was Thompson in the 5th round I think??

We need a vet qb , no question. All three of these guys will not be a starting QB for the Packers, so cut one now.

Yes, decimated. In today's NFL two or three key guys on IR means disaster. They have a bunch of walking wounded too. If one of the three 2nd round picks can't make a significant contribution in this situation I don't believe TT's picks were of much use right now are they? TT could of drafted better.

My original point is the season was down the shitter before it started. Don't put it all on Rodgers/Farve.

[falco]

tt has never played a down...

:P

good bye credibility

[Gunakor]

Don't let me forget to mention the great draft TT had, namely his 3 second round busts.

That's officially the earliest I've ever heard a draft pick called a bust.

5 games? Seriously?

Maybe I was a little severe because I would expect at least one of them to start but they are scrubs who contribute little.

A rook starting on a 13-3 team is pretty rare if even unheard of.

You mean to say a rookie starting on a team that was 13-3 the year before is rare even though they are decimated by injury this year? I could cut Brohm right now and not miss a second of sleep over it. I am just saying everything had to fall just exactly wrong to be 2-3 right now and the draft is part of it.

Decimated? I would have to look at your new assumption position by position. I was speaking in general. Harrel and Jenkins you mean? The only DE was Thompson in the 5th round I think??

We need a vet qb , no question. All three of these guys will not be a starting QB for the Packers, so cut one now.

Yes, decimated. In today's NFL two or three key guys on IR means disaster. They have a bunch of walking wounded too. If one of the three 2nd round picks can't make a significant contribution in this situation I don't believe TT's picks were of much use right now are they? TT could of drafted better.

My original point is the season was down the shitter before it started. Don't put it all on Rodgers/Favre.

TT could have drafted better? I didn't know we were drafting starters. Gosh, I was under the impression that we had our 22 starters on the roster already. I mean, for the first time I thought TT addressed areas of need early like TE and CB and QB, but those areas were in need of a backup not a starter.

In any draft there may be a handful of players that are NFL ready. All the rest of them - including many who are drafted in the FIRST round - need NFL grooming before they can play at an NFL level. Many draft picks are based on future potential, not instant production.

Chryst, we were in no position to draft any blue-chippers out of college this year anyway. Nobody we drafted this year was expected to be heavy contributors right away. Nobody could predict the injury bug hitting us this hard, this early. If our newest class of draft picks don't produce any Pro Bowlers this year I'm not going to be disappointed and blame TT for drafting horribly. I, unlike some, never expected much from them this year to begin with.

[The Shadow]

Favre is better than Rodgers... ur clueless if u think otherwise... but that was NOT WHAT MY POST WAS ABOUT PEOPLE!!... IT FUCKING HAD ZERO TO DO WITH WHY TT/MM ARE FUCKING UP... GET THAT THRU UR FUCKING HEADS....
First - I wasn't responding you you
Second - All your posts are about the same thing - we all get it. You hate TT
Third - You're living in the past, If you even consider the future you are very short sighted.


Amen.

[Pugger]

Yes, injuries have hurt this team. Unfortunately there isn't much TT can do now. Only street guys are available to replace guys going down like the fella TT signed who played for the Jags last year. :?

So far TT has looked like a duffas for drafting Harrell where he did. That guy can't stay healthy. Lord knows if we'll ever know if he can play for any length of time. Williams didn't deserve starter pay but we miss the depth he gave us on the D line big time. TT gambled but lost when Jenkins went down. :( The tackling has been atrocious in all phases of this defense.

The drop off in Cliffy's play recently is disturbing to say the least. Is this the same guy who kept Allen away from Rodgers in the first game?? Is he hurt? :?: Tauscher is not playing very well right now either. It isn't helping to have this revolving door on the O line either. It wouldn't hurt if our TE's could learn to block...and Rodgers doesn't recognize defenses as quickly as a 17 yr veteran so the guys have to hold their blocks a little longer. I think with more games under his belt Aaron will get rid of the ball sooner and will learn to feel the pressure better. But these things only come with playing and experience. I was pleased to see some spark in Grant and I hope it is a harbinger of more to come.

[Dabaddestbear]

IN all fairness the O-line is not that bad. Yes they have penalties, but that can improve.

I think were the Packers have been screwed by their GM is by not taking into realization how important a true leader means to a team game. Favre was hated by us Bear fans, but he even used to get you guys D hype during games. They all fed off his energy.

Secondly, the Packers running game is exactly what a lot of teams thought they were. No Brett means you can concentrate on the run more. Shoot the gaps, watch Rodgers run to his right side(99% of the time whenever he feels even a little pressure) and sit in a zone.

Third, the defense cannot stop a balanced attack. If you are a running team yes, they will stack the box. But if you have an adequate passing attack, they are doomed.

[bobblehead]

IN all fairness the O-line is not that bad. Yes they have penalties, but that can improve.

I think were the Packers have been screwed by their GM is by not taking into realization how important a true leader means to a team game. Favre was hated by us Bear fans, but he even used to get you guys D hype during games. They all fed off his energy.

Secondly, the Packers running game is exactly what a lot of teams thought they were. No Brett means you can concentrate on the run more. Shoot the gaps, watch Rodgers run to his right side(99% of the time whenever he feels even a little pressure) and sit in a zone.

Third, the defense cannot stop a balanced attack. If you are a running team yes, they will stack the box. But if you have an adequate passing attack, they are doomed.

How could you fricking hate a guy who throws like 2 TD's to uhrlacher a year??

[Dabaddestbear]

IN all fairness the O-line is not that bad. Yes they have penalties, but that can improve.

I think were the Packers have been screwed by their GM is by not taking into realization how important a true leader means to a team game. Favre was hated by us Bear fans, but he even used to get you guys D hype during games. They all fed off his energy.

Secondly, the Packers running game is exactly what a lot of teams thought they were. No Brett means you can concentrate on the run more. Shoot the gaps, watch Rodgers run to his right side(99% of the time whenever he feels even a little pressure) and sit in a zone.

Third, the defense cannot stop a balanced attack. If you are a running team yes, they will stack the box. But if you have an adequate passing attack, they are doomed.

How could you fricking hate a guy who throws like 2 TD's to uhrlacher a year??
Hey, because in the years prior he would find a way to kick our ass..lol.

[BEARMAN]

Fool me once, shame on me, ... Fool me twice, three times, five times, ... Shame on the pack ! :roll: :shock: :oops: :lol:

[Fred's Slacks]

IN all fairness the O-line is not that bad.

How are they not that bad? Most holding penalties in the leauge, no running lanes and insufficient pass protection. What is it that they are good at? Even when they produced in week 1 they still had a ton of penalties. Dude, this line has not played well.

[The Gunshooter]

Don't let me forget to mention the great draft TT had, namely his 3 second round busts.

That's officially the earliest I've ever heard a draft pick called a bust.

5 games? Seriously?

Maybe I was a little severe because I would expect at least one of them to start but they are scrubs who contribute little.

A rook starting on a 13-3 team is pretty rare if even unheard of.

You mean to say a rookie starting on a team that was 13-3 the year before is rare even though they are decimated by injury this year? I could cut Brohm right now and not miss a second of sleep over it. I am just saying everything had to fall just exactly wrong to be 2-3 right now and the draft is part of it.

Decimated? I would have to look at your new assumption position by position. I was speaking in general. Harrel and Jenkins you mean? The only DE was Thompson in the 5th round I think??

We need a vet qb , no question. All three of these guys will not be a starting QB for the Packers, so cut one now.

Yes, decimated. In today's NFL two or three key guys on IR means disaster. They have a bunch of walking wounded too. If one of the three 2nd round picks can't make a significant contribution in this situation I don't believe TT's picks were of much use right now are they? TT could of drafted better.

My original point is the season was down the shitter before it started. Don't put it all on Rodgers/Favre.

TT could have drafted better? I didn't know we were drafting starters. Gosh, I was under the impression that we had our 22 starters on the roster already. I mean, for the first time I thought TT addressed areas of need early like TE and CB and QB, but those areas were in need of a backup not a starter.

In any draft there may be a handful of players that are NFL ready. All the rest of them - including many who are drafted in the FIRST round - need NFL grooming before they can play at an NFL level. Many draft picks are based on future potential, not instant production.

Chryst, we were in no position to draft any blue-chippers out of college this year anyway. Nobody we drafted this year was expected to be heavy contributors right away. Nobody could predict the injury bug hitting us this hard, this early. If our newest class of draft picks don't produce any Pro Bowlers this year I'm not going to be disappointed and blame TT for drafting horribly. I, unlike some, never expected much from them this year to begin with.

Blue-chippers? WTF? The 2008 draft doesn't do shit for this team right now and there should of been someone to emerge and start under the present situation. If you say that is expecting too much from the scouts and TT I say bullshit. Spin away.

[MJZiggy]

We were all fooled into thinking people on this forum would be mentally stable enough to handle some losses this year without being big fat headed poopy pants babies about it. So to answer your question: Yes, we were fooled and we all feel ashamed.

Not all of us. Some of us saw this coming a mile away...

[retailguy]

Fool me once, shame on me, ... Fool me twice, three times, five times, ... Shame on the pack ! :roll: :shock: :oops: :lol:

Gotta love you Bearman. you are ALWAYS backwards. :P :wink:

[Pugger]

Usually it takes a couple of seasons before you can declare a draft a bust or not so its ridiculous to say 2008 is a disaster this soon!! :roll:

[The Gunshooter]

Usually it takes a couple of seasons before you can declare a draft a bust or not so its ridiculous to say 2008 is a disaster this soon!! :roll:

No, it is ridiculous that you could create that sentence and attribute it to me somehow.

[cheesner]

Blue-chippers? WTF? The 2008 draft doesn't do shit for this team right now and there should of been someone to emerge and start under the present situation. If you say that is expecting too much from the scouts and TT I say bullshit. Spin away.

There are tradeoffs in every draft pick outside of the top few blue-chippers. It looks like TT went for players who have great potential and great character, but who are raw. This seems like a good strategy for a team that didn't have a lot of holes and was building nice depth. Take the guys who although you don't need them now, has a good chance at developing into a dominating player. The other option is to draft a guy who is better now, ready to play even, but will only be a good player at best.

[mraynrand]

IN all fairness the O-line is not that bad. Yes they have penalties, but that can improve.

Did anyone notice that most of the successful runs in the ATL game were power runs and not zone runs? Hmmmmmm.....

[Sparkey]

Late entry to this discussion:

Packers O-Line has no chemistry, mostly due to Clifton's knees not allowing him to practice much with the rest of the team. Wells being hurt for most of the pre-season, meaning Spitz played center and not LG like originally planned and therefore Sitton getting reps at RG until Wells was back and then Spitz going back to RG. Tausch not having the same guy next to him.

The ZBS scheme is designed on quickness and guys knowing their points and where to advance after the initial block. With all the changes on the line, the players look lost and unsure about when and where to go to the next level.

Then, look at the D-Line. Pickett is still not 100% and looks very slow because of the nagging leg injury. Cole is a giant pile of nothing inside and the loss of Jenkins means no real strength up the middle on passing downs. BTW, does KGB still play ?

Then Hawk with a bum chest/ankle injury takes away his burst. Prior to the ankle, he was playing extremely well. Barnett has disappeared. Does he even play lineback anymore ? Then add in a missing safety in Bigby and the loss of your #2 cb in Harris and you can plainly see why the Def is horrible at present.

They say the strength of the defense is up the middle. Pickett, Barnett and Bigby are the middle. It is no wonder they are 2-3.

Injuries have decimated

[bobblehead]

We were all fooled into thinking people on this forum would be mentally stable enough to handle some losses this year without being big fat headed poopy pants babies about it. So to answer your question: Yes, we were fooled and we all feel ashamed.

Not all of us. Some of us saw this coming a mile away...

You saw grant flopping? You saw jenkins, harris and 2 safeties getting hurt? You saw the demise of chad clifton coming? Or do you mean you knew without favre around we had no shot?

[PackerTimer]

We were all fooled into thinking people on this forum would be mentally stable enough to handle some losses this year without being big fat headed poopy pants babies about it. So to answer your question: Yes, we were fooled and we all feel ashamed.

Not all of us. Some of us saw this coming a mile away...

You saw grant flopping? You saw jenkins, harris and 2 safeties getting hurt? You saw the demise of chad clifton coming? Or do you mean you knew without favre around we had no shot?

I think that was referring to the squabbles that seem to be infesting the board.

[Bossman641]

We were all fooled into thinking people on this forum would be mentally stable enough to handle some losses this year without being big fat headed poopy pants babies about it. So to answer your question: Yes, we were fooled and we all feel ashamed.

Not all of us. Some of us saw this coming a mile away...

You saw grant flopping? You saw jenkins, harris and 2 safeties getting hurt? You saw the demise of chad clifton coming? Or do you mean you knew without favre around we had no shot?

I think she means she knew that people wouldn't able to be civil on this forum. Each showing by Favre and Rodgers, either good or bad, just throws more fuel on the fire.

PacoPete is the one who saw the rash of injuries coming. How? Who knows, but it has something to do with Favre.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Packers O-Line has no chemistry, mostly due to Clifton's knees not allowing him to practice much with the rest of the team. Wells being hurt for most of the pre-season, meaning Spitz played center =

These are not bad luck injuries, they are helpful hints from God. Keep Clifton and Wells on the bench, start Barbre & Sitton and watch the O-line grow and blossom. (Not gonna happen, Clifton & Wells are paid starter money.)

[Harlan Huckleby]

PacoPete is the one who saw the rash of injuries coming. How? Who knows, but it has something to do with Favre.

The credit crisis has something to do with Favre. As does Palin's bastard grandchild, FAvre had a hand in that one too.

[Bossman641]

Packers O-Line has no chemistry, mostly due to Clifton's knees not allowing him to practice much with the rest of the team. Wells being hurt for most of the pre-season, meaning Spitz played center =

These are not bad luck injuries, they are helpful hints from God. Keep Clifton and Wells on the bench, start Barbre & Sitton and watch the O-line grow and blossom. (Not gonna happen, Clifton & Wells are paid starter money.)

Who woulda thought we would be hoping for Clifton to get benched and Colledge to take his spot? Barbre taking the LG spot? That's possible. But not in a million years would you have a single person over the offseason wanting to bench Clifton.

How many years does he have left on his deal? Is this his last year, or is there one more?

[Pacopete4]

PacoPete is the one who saw the rash of injuries coming. How? Who knows, but it has something to do with Favre.

The credit crisis has something to do with Favre. As does Palin's bastard grandchild, FAvre had a hand in that one too.\




if u can show me in my post where I mentioned Favre being the problem, be my guest... or u could look at my original point to TT didnt do his job in getting a competent Oline in here and he's had 4 season to do so... if u wanna be a little bitch, cocksucker whore of TT and think he's done a good job assembling us a line than so be it... but in my eyes.. he hasnt done his job

[Zool]

(sniffle)

[Zool]

Pete and Brett on vaca together. Shocking photos seen here

http://static.blip.tv/Dontthinkso-HisHersThongs260-808-dont.jpg

[Pacopete4]

Pete and Brett on vaca together. Shocking photos seen here

http://static.blip.tv/Dontthinkso-HisHersThongs260-808-dont.jpg


haha I wish I looked that good in a thong


and no, I'm not cryin... just sick of people bringing Brett up when I was the one that said its not about Brett.... they dont have an argument for TT cuz they know he fuckin blew it with the Oline.. thats all

[Bossman641]

PacoPete is the one who saw the rash of injuries coming. How? Who knows, but it has something to do with Favre.

The credit crisis has something to do with Favre. As does Palin's bastard grandchild, FAvre had a hand in that one too.\




if u can show me in my post where I mentioned Favre being the problem, be my guest... or u could look at my original point to TT didnt do his job in getting a competent Oline in here and he's had 4 season to do so... if u wanna be a little bitch, cocksucker whore of TT and think he's done a good job assembling us a line than so be it... but in my eyes.. he hasnt done his job

The young OL are in their 3rd year now. I think they (Spitz and Colledge) are doing a decent job this year. It'd help if their was any consistency there, but they've definitely improved from last year.

Did you foresee Clifton playing like shit this year Paco? If so, you may have been the only one. The tackles were supposed to be the rocks of the line, that hasn't been the case at all. If we had been able to pair last year's Clifton, Wells, and Tauscher with this year's Colledge and Spitz I think the line would be more than adequate. Instead Clifton and Tauscher have played well below their normal level and Wells has been slow in getting into form following his injury. That's not exactly what the plan for the year was.

[Pacopete4]

PacoPete is the one who saw the rash of injuries coming. How? Who knows, but it has something to do with Favre.

The credit crisis has something to do with Favre. As does Palin's bastard grandchild, FAvre had a hand in that one too.\




if u can show me in my post where I mentioned Favre being the problem, be my guest... or u could look at my original point to TT didnt do his job in getting a competent Oline in here and he's had 4 season to do so... if u wanna be a little bitch, cocksucker whore of TT and think he's done a good job assembling us a line than so be it... but in my eyes.. he hasnt done his job

The young OL are in their 3rd year now. I think they (Spitz and Colledge) are doing a decent job this year. It'd help if their was any consistency there, but they've definitely improved from last year.

Did you foresee Clifton playing like shit this year Paco? If so, you may have been the only one. The tackles were supposed to be the rocks of the line, that hasn't been the case at all. If we had been able to pair last year's Clifton, Wells, and Tauscher with this year's Colledge and Spitz I think the line would be more than adequate. Instead Clifton and Tauscher have played well below their normal level and Wells has been slow in getting into form following his injury. That's not exactly what the plan for the year was. im not paid to... TT is and he failed miserably.. sorry but he did and to dispute that is crazy talk

[Bossman641]

PacoPete is the one who saw the rash of injuries coming. How? Who knows, but it has something to do with Favre.

The credit crisis has something to do with Favre. As does Palin's bastard grandchild, FAvre had a hand in that one too.\




if u can show me in my post where I mentioned Favre being the problem, be my guest... or u could look at my original point to TT didnt do his job in getting a competent Oline in here and he's had 4 season to do so... if u wanna be a little bitch, cocksucker whore of TT and think he's done a good job assembling us a line than so be it... but in my eyes.. he hasnt done his job

The young OL are in their 3rd year now. I think they (Spitz and Colledge) are doing a decent job this year. It'd help if their was any consistency there, but they've definitely improved from last year.

Did you foresee Clifton playing like shit this year Paco? If so, you may have been the only one. The tackles were supposed to be the rocks of the line, that hasn't been the case at all. If we had been able to pair last year's Clifton, Wells, and Tauscher with this year's Colledge and Spitz I think the line would be more than adequate. Instead Clifton and Tauscher have played well below their normal level and Wells has been slow in getting into form following his injury. That's not exactly what the plan for the year was. im not paid to... TT is and he failed miserably.. sorry but he did and to dispute that is crazy talk

OK. Great analysis. :roll:

[Pacopete4]

PacoPete is the one who saw the rash of injuries coming. How? Who knows, but it has something to do with Favre.

The credit crisis has something to do with Favre. As does Palin's bastard grandchild, FAvre had a hand in that one too.\




if u can show me in my post where I mentioned Favre being the problem, be my guest... or u could look at my original point to TT didnt do his job in getting a competent Oline in here and he's had 4 season to do so... if u wanna be a little bitch, cocksucker whore of TT and think he's done a good job assembling us a line than so be it... but in my eyes.. he hasnt done his job

The young OL are in their 3rd year now. I think they (Spitz and Colledge) are doing a decent job this year. It'd help if their was any consistency there, but they've definitely improved from last year.

Did you foresee Clifton playing like shit this year Paco? If so, you may have been the only one. The tackles were supposed to be the rocks of the line, that hasn't been the case at all. If we had been able to pair last year's Clifton, Wells, and Tauscher with this year's Colledge and Spitz I think the line would be more than adequate. Instead Clifton and Tauscher have played well below their normal level and Wells has been slow in getting into form following his injury. That's not exactly what the plan for the year was. im not paid to... TT is and he failed miserably.. sorry but he did and to dispute that is crazy talk

OK. Great analysis. :roll: sorry bossman.. at work, but the proof is on the field... even with brett we saw a team that used max protect a ton.. and until the threw all over the place we couldn.t run... oline is trash, thanks TT

[Gunakor]

Blue-chippers? WTF? The 2008 draft doesn't do shit for this team right now and there should of been someone to emerge and start under the present situation. If you say that is expecting too much from the scouts and TT I say bullshit. Spin away.

I'll say it again. The 2008 draft was not SUPPOSED to help us this year. We had our starters, so we weren't looking for immediate contributors. Rookies are rarely heavy contributors anyway. They are rookies, and need to be groomed before they are NFL ready. Especially considering that our first pick was very late, I don't see where an immediate contributor could be found. Besides, I'm sure if it could have been predicted back in April that we'd be hit so hard by the injury bug at certain positions we'd have drafted differently. Maybe if we knew CJ would be lost for the year we'd have drafted a DE earlier, or had we known that we'd lose 2 safeties early we'd have taken a safety. But we didn't have the benefit of hindsight on draft day, and nobody could have predicted these injuries occuring. You can't blame this one on the draft.

[cheesner]

sorry bossman.. at work, but the proof is on the field... even with brett we saw a team that used max protect a ton.. and until the threw all over the place we couldn.t run... oline is trash, thanks TT

Your problem, pete, is your demands of a GM are just outrageous. Apparently you are expecting the Packer roster to be comprised entirely of pro-bowl players 2 deep at all positions. Very few teams can handle the loss of a couple of starters. Look at NE. They look quite ordinary after loosing a single superstar. Does that mean that NE managment are a bunch of boneheads and should be fired? Like it or not, TT has built an impressive team in a short amount of time and the Packers are lucky to have him. If it weren't for the injuries, they were looking like one of the teams to beat in the NFL.

And don't tell me it comes down to a TT mistake by not taking back Favre. AR is playing fantastic football right now and the Packers troubles are not coming from there.

[Bossman641]

PacoPete is the one who saw the rash of injuries coming. How? Who knows, but it has something to do with Favre.

The credit crisis has something to do with Favre. As does Palin's bastard grandchild, FAvre had a hand in that one too.\




if u can show me in my post where I mentioned Favre being the problem, be my guest... or u could look at my original point to TT didnt do his job in getting a competent Oline in here and he's had 4 season to do so... if u wanna be a little bitch, cocksucker whore of TT and think he's done a good job assembling us a line than so be it... but in my eyes.. he hasnt done his job

The young OL are in their 3rd year now. I think they (Spitz and Colledge) are doing a decent job this year. It'd help if their was any consistency there, but they've definitely improved from last year.

Did you foresee Clifton playing like shit this year Paco? If so, you may have been the only one. The tackles were supposed to be the rocks of the line, that hasn't been the case at all. If we had been able to pair last year's Clifton, Wells, and Tauscher with this year's Colledge and Spitz I think the line would be more than adequate. Instead Clifton and Tauscher have played well below their normal level and Wells has been slow in getting into form following his injury. That's not exactly what the plan for the year was. im not paid to... TT is and he failed miserably.. sorry but he did and to dispute that is crazy talk

OK. Great analysis. :roll: sorry bossman.. at work, but the proof is on the field... even with brett we saw a team that used max protect a ton.. and until the threw all over the place we couldn.t run... oline is trash, thanks TT

Your argument holds no water.


Favre through 5 games in 2007: 141/210 (67.1%) for 1,527 yards (7.3) with 9 touchdowns, 4 interceptions for a 94.7 passer rating****Rodgers through 5 games in 2008: 103/163 (63.2%) for 1,270 yards (7.8) with 9 touchdowns, 4 interceptions for a 95.4 passer rating.

Packers rushing game through 5 games this year - 95.6 yards/game and 3 rushing TD

Packer rushing game through 5 games last year - 67.6 yards/game and 4 rushing TD

Packer D this year - 25.6 points/game

Packer D last year - 18.6 points/game

The Packers weren't lighting it up last year due to Favre. He wasn't the reason for the 4-1 start. It was the defense.

The defense is giving up an extra TD a game this year. That's why we are 2-3. Not cause Rodgers sucks, not cause the offense isn't scoring or moving the ball, it's cause the defense. Why's that? Maybe because we've been ravaged by injuries. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[retailguy]

Packers rushing game through 5 games this year - 95.6 yards/game and 3 rushing TD

Packer rushing game through 5 games last year - 67.6 yards/game and 4 rushing TD

Packer D this year - 25.6 points/game

Packer D last year - 18.6 points/game

The Packers weren't lighting it up last year due to Favre. He wasn't the reason for the 4-1 start. It was the defense.

The defense is giving up an extra TD a game this year. That's why we are 2-3. Not cause Rodgers sucks, not cause the offense isn't scoring or moving the ball, it's cause the defense. Why's that? Maybe because we've been ravaged by injuries. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Ok.... I have been trying to stay out of this, but I can't any longer.

Your statistical analysis doesn't work. 1st off, we played different teams last year. 2nd, the offense overall stayed on the field longer leaving less minutes for the defense to get winded. 3rd, Favre had more completions & yards last year.

Check the # of plays in the 1st five games from last year to this year... Both offense and defense. Your analysis is WOEFULLY incomplete. This offensive line is just that - OFFENSIVE.

Ted is to blame for that. That's a way different thing than blaming him for getting rid of Favre. We should have a "world class" OL after 4 seasons with the number of ppl that have run through here... We don't. You can say they are playing better, I DISAGREE. They're worse. Why? I think Favre made them look better because of his experience. Rodgers can't do that, and shouldn't be expected to do that. Rodgers needs to rely on his line, AND HE CANNOT. Have you watched this past game? Watch his feet.... He looks like Jeff Garcia during his last season in San Francisco. HAPPY FEET - and I don't blame the guy. He's getting killed back there.

Finally, I GIVE ZERO CREDIT FOR INJURIES. All the Sherman haters gave ZERO CREDIT FOR INJURIES. Gotta play with what you've got, that's the way it works.... or, at least that's what I've been told for the past FIVE seasons.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Well then based on that it was different teams and different scenarios, we can't compare the two QBs and thus it is fruitless to claim who would have done better in either scenario.

[Gunakor]

Ok.... I have been trying to stay out of this, but I can't any longer.

Your statistical analysis doesn't work. 1st off, we played different teams last year. 2nd, the offense overall stayed on the field longer leaving less minutes for the defense to get winded. 3rd, Favre had more completions & yards last year.

Check the # of plays in the 1st five games from last year to this year... Both offense and defense. Your analysis is WOEFULLY incomplete. This offensive line is just that - OFFENSIVE.

Ted is to blame for that. That's a way different thing than blaming him for getting rid of Favre. We should have a "world class" OL after 4 seasons with the number of ppl that have run through here... We don't. You can say they are playing better, I DISAGREE. They're worse. Why? I think Favre made them look better because of his experience. Rodgers can't do that, and shouldn't be expected to do that. Rodgers needs to rely on his line, AND HE CANNOT. Have you watched this past game? Watch his feet.... He looks like Jeff Garcia during his last season in San Francisco. HAPPY FEET - and I don't blame the guy. He's getting killed back there.

Finally, I GIVE ZERO CREDIT FOR INJURIES. All the Sherman haters gave ZERO CREDIT FOR INJURIES. Gotta play with what you've got, that's the way it works.... or, at least that's what I've been told for the past FIVE seasons.

The OL woes do not explain the outrageous difference in ppg. allowed by our defense compared to last season. True enough you gotta play with what you have, and that's what we are doing. But along with playing with what you have comes the consequences that arise from injuries. Missing 3 starters on the defense, on top of another 2 starters playing through significant injury, and missing primary backups due to injury as well, and still some people expect the production level to remain the same? Crazy talk...

[retailguy]

Well then based on that it was different teams and different scenarios, we can't compare the two QBs and thus it is fruitless to claim who would have done better in either scenario.

The QB comparisons AREN'T the point. The point is that Rodgers is not able to trust his line. As a result we've got a lot of 3 and outs and the d is on the field longer, while injured. Recipe for a few losses, no?

[retailguy]

The OL woes do not explain the outrageous difference in ppg. allowed by our defense compared to last season.

I disagree, the additional minutes they've had to play injured HAVE increased the ppg total. This defense is meant to bend, not break. Exhausted guys have given up points in the 4th quarter against both Dallas and Tampa. Also gave up points this week after the INT.

Would be interesting to look at points scored in the 4th qtr last yr vs. this year. bet that makes the point. I'll be very surprised if it's wrong.




True enough you gotta play with what you have, and that's what we are doing. But along with playing with what you have comes the consequences that arise from injuries. Missing 3 starters on the defense, on top of another 2 starters playing through significant injury, and missing primary backups due to injury as well, and still some people expect the production level to remain the same? Crazy talk...

That's what I said after the 2001 season. Remember the Atlanta playoff loss? Nope, sorry, not the way it works here. Karma's a bitch.

In all seriousness, if the OL could help keep the O on the field, maybe the result of these games would have been different. Right now, the D is getting limited help from the Offense which makes the situation look worse than it is.

Wells has been hurt, now cliffy is hurt, but otherwise the OL has been healthy, and crappy...

[Bossman641]

Packers rushing game through 5 games this year - 95.6 yards/game and 3 rushing TD

Packer rushing game through 5 games last year - 67.6 yards/game and 4 rushing TD

Packer D this year - 25.6 points/game

Packer D last year - 18.6 points/game

The Packers weren't lighting it up last year due to Favre. He wasn't the reason for the 4-1 start. It was the defense.

The defense is giving up an extra TD a game this year. That's why we are 2-3. Not cause Rodgers sucks, not cause the offense isn't scoring or moving the ball, it's cause the defense. Why's that? Maybe because we've been ravaged by injuries. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Ok.... I have been trying to stay out of this, but I can't any longer.

Your statistical analysis doesn't work. 1st off, we played different teams last year. 2nd, the offense overall stayed on the field longer leaving less minutes for the defense to get winded. 3rd, Favre had more completions & yards last year.

Check the # of plays in the 1st five games from last year to this year... Both offense and defense. Your analysis is WOEFULLY incomplete. This offensive line is just that - OFFENSIVE.

Ted is to blame for that. That's a way different thing than blaming him for getting rid of Favre. We should have a "world class" OL after 4 seasons with the number of ppl that have run through here... We don't. You can say they are playing better, I DISAGREE. They're worse. Why? I think Favre made them look better because of his experience. Rodgers can't do that, and shouldn't be expected to do that. Rodgers needs to rely on his line, AND HE CANNOT. Have you watched this past game? Watch his feet.... He looks like Jeff Garcia during his last season in San Francisco. HAPPY FEET - and I don't blame the guy. He's getting killed back there.

Finally, I GIVE ZERO CREDIT FOR INJURIES. All the Sherman haters gave ZERO CREDIT FOR INJURIES. Gotta play with what you've got, that's the way it works.... or, at least that's what I've been told for the past FIVE seasons.

Wrong

Through 5 games last year the offense had held the ball for 151 min, 51 sec. Through 5 games this year it's been 145 min, 42 sec. That's not even an extra 1.5 min a game.

I do give credit for injuries. I thought Sherman got a raw deal even being judged in that last season. The team was decimated and was lining practice squad players up all over the field.

Whatever. I say the record is due to the defense not playing well this year. The offense certainly has had their terrible showings (Tampa game) but by and large I put it on the defense. And I blame that for the most part on injuries.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Well then based on that it was different teams and different scenarios, we can't compare the two QBs and thus it is fruitless to claim who would have done better in either scenario.

The QB comparisons AREN'T the point. The point is that Rodgers is not able to trust his line. As a result we've got a lot of 3 and outs and the d is on the field longer, while injured. Recipe for a few losses, no?
It's the same line, so Favre could trust it but Rodgers can't?

[retailguy]

Well then based on that it was different teams and different scenarios, we can't compare the two QBs and thus it is fruitless to claim who would have done better in either scenario.

The QB comparisons AREN'T the point. The point is that Rodgers is not able to trust his line. As a result we've got a lot of 3 and outs and the d is on the field longer, while injured. Recipe for a few losses, no?
It's the same line, so Favre could trust it but Rodgers can't?

Favre has 16 years of experience. Rodgers has 5 games of starting experience. You can't compare that. You just can't. Favre could see from the way the defense lined up where breakdowns would likely come, you can't expect that of Rodgers. If you do, you're crazy.

Rodgers needs a solid line to be successful. He doesn't have one, and has played pretty well in spite of it. Watch his feet in the next game. Watch them. He's nervous back there, with good reason.

[Patler]

2nd, the offense overall stayed on the field longer leaving less minutes for the defense to get winded. 3rd, Favre had more completions & yards last year.

Check the # of plays in the 1st five games from last year to this year... Both offense and defense. Your analysis is WOEFULLY incomplete. This offensive line is just that - OFFENSIVE.

Ted is to blame for that. That's a way different thing than blaming him for getting rid of Favre. We should have a "world class" OL after 4 seasons with the number of ppl that have run through here... We don't.


Can't resist, have to comment:

After 5 games:
2007 - 320 plays on offense, 1811 yards, 30:22 time of possession/game.
2008 - 298 plays on offense, 1687 yards, 29:08 time of possession/game.

So the difference on offense, average per game, 4.4 plays, 24.8 yards, 74 seconds more in 2007 than 2008. I hardly think that is significant as to the impact on the defense wearing down.

Building an O-line takes time, especially when the immediately preceding GM (one Mike Sherman) provided nothing in backups to build on. Wolf said you have to draft O-line every year to work with them. He had a string of guys ready to step in as guys like Ken Ruettgers, Harry Galbreath, Aaron Taylor, Adam Timmerman and Ross Verba left in free agency or retired. Along came Rivera, Wahle, Clifton and Tauscher. Sherman had Wells, but who did he have to replace Rivera and Wahle? It was particularly problematic when he, Mike Sherman, arranged their contracts to have critical years in the same year.

TT has re-emphasized the need to continually bring in O-linemen, with a couple each year.

Rivera did not even start until his third season, and then was the weak link on the line for several seasons.

Wahle started his second season, was benched after a few games into his third season never to be seen again until his fourth season.

Colledge and Spitz are just entering their third seasons and seem to be ahead of what Rivera and Wahle were in their third seasons. There are young, developing players in Barbre, Sitton and even Coston. Perhaps Giacomini and Moll, too. Who was Sherman developing? Kevin Barry and Wells, that's about it.

The succession of O-line players that Wolf always provided stopped dead in its tracks under Sherman. TT has re-started it, but they have to experience the void left by Sherman before any kind of stability will be seen.

And that's just one area of the team. How about WR. LB and DB? What depth did TT inherit from Sherman? Nothing behind the starters, and even some of the starters shouldn't have been. Now, WR looks pretty good and even the DBs don't look too bad with starters out. The linebackers are head and shoulders above what was here when TT arrived.

TT also had to dedicate a draft pick or picks to replacing Favre, something Sherman didn't have to do and never did even though he did give it some lip-service in his pre-draft discussions.

You can complain all you want about the O-line, but that was only a small part of what TT had to fix, and probably the most difficult for seeing instant results. He had a big project and isn't done yet.

[mraynrand]

Wolf struck gold in the 2000 draft with Clifton and Tauscher. Had he not, the Packers would have been up shit river without a swizzle stick. Those two had virtually zero developmental time, and were instrumental to (eventually) a pretty good year, and a good run of five years on the O-line. Thompson has invested a lot in the line and has crap to show for it so far. That's an honest assessment. It isn't TT hate either, because he's had some really good successes elsewhere. His line drafting so far sucks twigs and berries.

[Pacopete4]

so ur admitting he's failed at the oline position so far? k.... now how bout the dline... he find ne one good there yet?

[Scott Campbell]

Jolly and Pickett. And doesn't he get credit for keeping Kampman after he signed that offer sheet with the Vikes? He also paid Jenkins, who was looking like he was worth all that money prior to hurting himself.

[arcilite]

man, paco

do your friends ever get tired of you in person?


you seem like someone who might just get punched in the face sometime because they dont know when to quit.

[Scott Campbell]

man, paco

do your friends ever get tired of you in person?


Friends??? :lol:

Plural??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[mraynrand]

so ur admitting he's failed at the oline position so far? k.... now how bout the dline... he find ne one good there yet?

If you're asking me, I thought Pickett was a good FA aquisition. Jolly seemed to have some potential, but has flattened. Montgomery is just a guy, Thompson looks pathetic, but is a rookie. Hunter is not an end and isn't much in pass rush. Jenkins and Kampman were Sherman picks - outstanding linemen, aren't they (or weren't they, in the case of Jenkins, Sherman's rookie FA pick). Clearly, Sherman outperformed TT so far on the D-line, since Gravy Jackson was easily as good as Pickett over a comparable period of time.

[pack4to84]

man, paco

do your friends ever get tired of you in person?


you seem like someone who might just get punched in the face sometime because they dont know when to quit.the most negative poster I have seen. I would have punched him by now if I knew him in person.

[Bossman641]

Jolly and Pickett. And doesn't he get credit for keeping Kampman after he signed that offer sheet with the Vikes?

They don't count. And we should have a couple Pro-Bowlers behind them. Not to mention TT probably could have swung a trade for Osi somewhere along the way.

Actually, I'd say DE is the one place TT has failed. Montgomery sucks, and I don't think he's placed enough emphasis there.

[Scott Campbell]

Clearly, Sherman outperformed TT so far on the D-line, since Gravy Jackson was easily as good as Pickett over a comparable period of time.


Maybe on drafting, but not FA's and retaining players. Shermy whiffed big time on C. Hunt and Joe Johnson.

[mraynrand]

Jolly and Pickett. And doesn't he get credit for keeping Kampman after he signed that offer sheet with the Vikes? He also paid Jenkins, who was looking like he was worth all that money prior to hurting himself.

If you give Thompson credit for keeping Kampman and Jenkins, then you have to give Sherman credit for resigning guys like KGB, Green, Clifton, etc. etc. That's kind of lame. Sherman brought in Kampman and Jenkins. TT should get less credit for keeping them.

[Scott Campbell]

They don't count.


I'll give him credit for keeping good players, vs. losing them via free agency.

[Bossman641]

man, paco

do your friends ever get tired of you in person?


you seem like someone who might just get punched in the face sometime because they dont know when to quit.the most negative poster I have seen. I would have punched him by now if I knew him in person.

Haha. Maybe that should be the selling point for next year's Posters game. Come punch Paco. :lol:

[Scott Campbell]

Jolly and Pickett. And doesn't he get credit for keeping Kampman after he signed that offer sheet with the Vikes? He also paid Jenkins, who was looking like he was worth all that money prior to hurting himself.

If you give Thompson credit for keeping Kampman and Jenkins, then you have to give Sherman credit for resigning guys like KGB, Green, Clifton, etc. etc. That's kind of lame.


It's all part of roster building, and key to the job description. I think you have to evaluate all the moves.

[mraynrand]

Clearly, Sherman outperformed TT so far on the D-line, since Gravy Jackson was easily as good as Pickett over a comparable period of time.


Maybe on drafting, but not FA's and retaining players. Shermy whiffed big time on C. Hunt and Joe Johnson.

So? Sherman brought in Gravy and Thompson brought in Pickett. That's about even. What else has Thompson done on the D line?

[Bossman641]

They don't count.


I'll give him credit for keeping good players, vs. losing them via free agency.

I give him credit for it. I'm just trying to think like Paco and beat him to the punch.

[Scott Campbell]

I'm just trying to think like Paco........



That can't be good for you.

[mraynrand]

Jolly and Pickett. And doesn't he get credit for keeping Kampman after he signed that offer sheet with the Vikes? He also paid Jenkins, who was looking like he was worth all that money prior to hurting himself.

If you give Thompson credit for keeping Kampman and Jenkins, then you have to give Sherman credit for resigning guys like KGB, Green, Clifton, etc. etc. That's kind of lame.


It's all part of roster building, and key to the job description. I think you have to evaluate all the moves.

I did. That's why I wrote "TT should get less credit for keeping them." (why didn't you include that?) Just as Sherman gets less credit for keeping the guys he resigned. In the area of evaluating talent, it's (in my estimation) harder to find talent than to keep talent that's working in your system.

[Scott Campbell]

Clearly, Sherman outperformed TT so far on the D-line, since Gravy Jackson was easily as good as Pickett over a comparable period of time.


Maybe on drafting, but not FA's and retaining players. Shermy whiffed big time on C. Hunt and Joe Johnson.

So? Sherman brought in Gravy and Thompson brought in Pickett. That's about even. What else has Thompson done on the D line?


Apparently not enough.

And Pickett has been here longer than Gravy, and he doesn't cause trouble. I'd rate Pickett significantly better acquisition than Gravy. And it should be better, as we spent a lot more money on Ryan.

[Scott Campbell]

I did. That's why I wrote "TT should get less credit for keeping them." (why didn't you include that?) Just as Sherman gets less credit for keeping the guys he resigned. In the area of evaluating talent, it's (in my estimation) harder to find talent than to keep talent that's working in your system.


Agreed.

[Patler]

Wolf struck gold in the 2000 draft with Clifton and Tauscher. Had he not, the Packers would have been up shit river without a swizzle stick. Those two had virtually zero developmental time, and were instrumental to (eventually) a pretty good year, and a good run of five years on the O-line. Thompson has invested a lot in the line and has crap to show for it so far. That's an honest assessment. It isn't TT hate either, because he's had some really good successes elsewhere. His line drafting so far sucks twigs and berries.

I agree completely about Clifton and Tauscher, but he also struck gold with Rivera and Wahle, but only after giving them 4 years each to develop. Both were pretty bad early in their careers The bucket full of guards TT has brought in could be the same way next year and thereafter. Spitz, Colledge and Barbre have shown improvement. Moll and Coston not so much. Sitton is an unknown. I don't think that sucks. After all, Wolf had his share of flops too with guys like Michels, Ferrario, Heimburger, Curry and Hutchins. Even Verba was not a real solid 1st round success for the Packers.

[mraynrand]

Clearly, Sherman outperformed TT so far on the D-line, since Gravy Jackson was easily as good as Pickett over a comparable period of time.


Maybe on drafting, but not FA's and retaining players. Shermy whiffed big time on C. Hunt and Joe Johnson.

So? Sherman brought in Gravy and Thompson brought in Pickett. That's about even. What else has Thompson done on the D line?


Apparently not enough.

And Pickett has been here longer than Gravy, and he doesn't cause trouble. I'd rate Pickett significantly better acquisition than Gravy. And it should be better, as we spent a lot more money on Ryan.

Actually, I don't think Pickett's been all that much better, and the time frame is pretty similar. If you recall, in 2004, the Packers sucked stopping the run before Gravy came back from an injury. Pickett hopefully will get back into form this season and live up to your billing.

[mraynrand]

Wolf struck gold in the 2000 draft with Clifton and Tauscher. Had he not, the Packers would have been up shit river without a swizzle stick. Those two had virtually zero developmental time, and were instrumental to (eventually) a pretty good year, and a good run of five years on the O-line. Thompson has invested a lot in the line and has crap to show for it so far. That's an honest assessment. It isn't TT hate either, because he's had some really good successes elsewhere. His line drafting so far sucks twigs and berries.

I agree completely about Clifton and Tauscher, but he also struck gold with Rivera and Wahle, but only after giving them 4 years each to develop. Both were pretty bad early in their careers The bucket full of guards TT has brought in could be the same way next year and thereafter. Spitz, Colledge and Barbre have shown improvement. Moll and Coston not so much. Sitton is an unknown. I don't think that sucks. After all, Wolf had his share of flops too with guys like Michels, Ferrario, Heimburger, Curry and Hutchins. Even Verba was not a real solid 1st round success for the Packers.

I'm with you on the developmental time frame for some linemen. as has been suggested in other threads, you could see Barbre and Sitton in there with Colledge at the LT, and that line - with Spitz at center might be solid for a number of years. Hopefully sooner than later, though, right?

[Bretsky]

I agree it often takes 4 years for the OL man to develop

So you either suffer as they are or use another means to bring one in while the others find their game :idea: :idea: :idea:

Apparently we choose to suffer

[Patler]

I'm with you on the developmental time frame for some linemen. as has been suggested in other threads, you could see Barbre and Sitton in there with Colledge at the LT, and that line - with Spitz at center might be solid for a number of years. Hopefully sooner than later, though, right?

I think we will see it this season. Barbre will play, either because Colledge is at LT or because he plays well enough to get more time. I also expect to see Spitz more at Center, with Wells in the infirmary. Sitton, who knows at this point??????

Besides the injuries, the most disappointing thing to me in the 1st 5 games has been the relatively poor play of both Clifton and Tauscher at times. The young guys could be asked to fill in sooner than we think.

[Pacopete4]

negative or not, TTs failures are hurting this team whether u like it or not... along with injuries... u cant just point out positives about him...

[mraynrand]

FYI - Gravy had 2 solo tackles and a sack Sunday, and Pickett had 2 solo and 2 assists, no sacks. Gravy also had 7 burgers, 2 milkshakes, a hambone, and curly fries - and that was just breakfast.

[Pacopete4]

FYI - Gravy had 2 solo tackles and a sack Sunday, and Pickett had 2 solo and 2 assists, no sacks. Gravy also had 7 burgers, 2 milkshakes, a hambone, and curly fries - and that was just breakfast. damn u clifton and tausch... oh wait....

[Cheesehead Craig]

Can't resist, have to comment:

After 5 games:
2007 - 320 plays on offense, 1811 yards, 30:22 time of possession/game.
2008 - 298 plays on offense, 1687 yards, 29:08 time of possession/game.

So the difference on offense, average per game, 4.4 plays, 24.8 yards, 74 seconds more in 2007 than 2008. I hardly think that is significant as to the impact on the defense wearing down.

Building an O-line takes time, especially when the immediately preceding GM (one Mike Sherman) provided nothing in backups to build on. Wolf said you have to draft O-line every year to work with them. He had a string of guys ready to step in as guys like Ken Ruettgers, Harry Galbreath, Aaron Taylor, Adam Timmerman and Ross Verba left in free agency or retired. Along came Rivera, Wahle, Clifton and Tauscher. Sherman had Wells, but who did he have to replace Rivera and Wahle? It was particularly problematic when he, Mike Sherman, arranged their contracts to have critical years in the same year.

TT has re-emphasized the need to continually bring in O-linemen, with a couple each year.

Rivera did not even start until his third season, and then was the weak link on the line for several seasons.

Wahle started his second season, was benched after a few games into his third season never to be seen again until his fourth season.

Colledge and Spitz are just entering their third seasons and seem to be ahead of what Rivera and Wahle were in their third seasons. There are young, developing players in Barbre, Sitton and even Coston. Perhaps Giacomini and Moll, too. Who was Sherman developing? Kevin Barry and Wells, that's about it.

The succession of O-line players that Wolf always provided stopped dead in its tracks under Sherman. TT has re-started it, but they have to experience the void left by Sherman before any kind of stability will be seen.

And that's just one area of the team. How about WR. LB and DB? What depth did TT inherit from Sherman? Nothing behind the starters, and even some of the starters shouldn't have been. Now, WR looks pretty good and even the DBs don't look too bad with starters out. The linebackers are head and shoulders above what was here when TT arrived.

TT also had to dedicate a draft pick or picks to replacing Favre, something Sherman didn't have to do and never did even though he did give it some lip-service in his pre-draft discussions.

You can complain all you want about the O-line, but that was only a small part of what TT had to fix, and probably the most difficult for seeing instant results. He had a big project and isn't done yet.

Post of the friggin' season so far! It takes time to build and OL and get chemistry. Well done Patler!

[Patler]

FYI - Gravy had 2 solo tackles and a sack Sunday, and Pickett had 2 solo and 2 assists, no sacks. Gravy also had 7 burgers, 2 milkshakes, a hambone, and curly fries - and that was just breakfast. damn u clifton and tausch... oh wait....

One of the explanations I saw blamed Tauscher and Clifton for the sack Jackson had. Tauscher's guy beat him, Clifton was being pushed back. Rodger had now where to go but straight forward into the waiting arms of Jackson. A "gift" sack for Jackson.

[Patler]

negative or not, TTs failures are hurting this team whether u like it or not... along with injuries... u cant just point out positives about him...

What failures are you talking about? I don't think he has failed on the O-line, just hasn't had enough time to finish with all the rest that was needed.

[texaspackerbacker]

Wasn't there a discussion a while back that pacopete might be the latest incarnation of Tank? If so, did that ever get established one way or the other?

Somebody, I think, Bobblehead, said it best. Who among us foresaw the rash of injuries on defense, as well as Clifton turning to shit this suddenly? We actually DO have fairly decent depth among the DB--3 starter quality Safeties and Williams and Blackmon as backups at Corner, not to mention Lee and Bush.

D Line? We've got a lot of quality people. Were we all fooled about that? I don't think so. Pickett is apparently playing hurt; Maybe Jolly too. You can blame Thompson for picking Harrell--who still might turn out all right, but everything else is unforeseen bad luck.

O Line? We have a good collection of young talented linemen that fit the scheme. The fact that a lot of forum know-nothings don't like the scheme doesn't diminish that. Thompson apparently thought he could get another year or two out of Clifton and Tauscher. Is he to be blamed for that? Their replacements probably are already on the team, but just not ready for prime time.

Grant? Thompson probably got lucky with him last season--nobody is THAT good a judge of talent. I still think Grant will have a good year. As for the guy who said the problem is teams not respecting Rodgers like Favre and playing to stop the run, I don't think that lasted beyond the first or second game--although there may be something to the idea that Rodgers is too predictable in always escaping to his right.

McCarthy's play calling and discipline? Play calling, maybe--in the sense that he has kinda babied Rodgers along with stripped down gameplans, but lack of discipline? Where does that idea come from? Discipline was fine when we were winning last season; I haven't seen any indication of a difference this year.

We're 2-3 after a fairly lousy start with some injuries and bad luck. There is plenty of opportunity to snap out of it. Just look at how many projected "top teams" have been disappointments this year--some with obvious reasons, some not so much.

Once we get back at least one of the hurt Safeties, things will get a lot better. Also, I still think the running game is going to come around as Grant gets healthy and McCarthy opens up the playbook a little more. And if the positive rumors about Harrell are true, that's gravy.

[Patler]

I agree it often takes 4 years for the OL man to develop

So you either suffer as they are or use another means to bring one in while the others find their game :idea: :idea: :idea:

Apparently we choose to suffer

I know this is a bur under your saddle, but I'm not sure who they could have signed. At the time, many seemed to think that Klemm was a good signing. An experienced New England guy about which one reporter said, "Brett Favre will love his pass blocking."

TT tried to sign Pork-Chop Womack, but in the end couldn't get him to leave Seattle. In retrospect, that may have been a good thing. He hasn't been anything more than a backup, really. Andruzzi refused to even visit anywhere, just signed with Cleveland where he wanted to be Etc., etc.

[RashanGary]

Some great posts, Patler.

[BEARMAN]

Fool me once, shame on me, ... Fool me twice, three times, five times, ... Shame on the pack ! :roll: :shock: :oops: :lol:

Gotta love you Bearman. you are ALWAYS backwards. :P :wink:

Atleast some one luvs me ! :P

[Partial]

Tex I recall one point where you claimed Grant was a top 3 running back in the league. Now he's just good :D Just giving you shit!

[Scott Campbell]

Besides the injuries, the most disappointing thing to me in the 1st 5 games has been the relatively poor play of both Clifton and Tauscher at times.


You know, you almost expect injuries. But I didn't expect the play those two guys drop off a cliff like this.

[mraynrand]

McCarthy's play calling and discipline? Play calling, maybe--in the sense that he has kinda babied Rodgers along with stripped down gameplans, but lack of discipline? Where does that idea come from? Discipline was fine when we were winning last season; I haven't seen any indication of a difference this year.

I think play calling 'restriction' is going bye bye. McCarthy and Rodgers adjusted very well after a terrible first quarter on Sunday. Rodgers was using all his weapons, especially the TE. He even had less hesitation on most throws. He's getting comfortable in the offense. If injuries and the line settle down, the Packers could really be in for a nice run after the bye. Hopefully Rodgers won't be saddled with a defense that gives up 24-30 - points a game.

[SnakeLH2006]

After seeing our depth so far, were we all fooled by thinking TT knew what the hell he was doing? Our oline hasn't been up and running since he got here and our Dline hasn't improved either... for the GM of the year award winner, shouldn't we expect much more out of him?



Were we also fooled by McCarthy? His play calling and discipline is atrocious. Was he made by #4 being his QB and leader?



sure seems like we were fooled....

YEP.

[Gunakor]

It's not TT's fault that this team isn't producing. TT brings in talent and potential. It is MM's responsibility to get these guys prepared and conditioned and ready to play. Once the season starts, TT has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the team performs. He is not a coach. He is not a gameplanner or a play caller. He puts together a roster, and that's all. The guys on our roster are extremely talented. It is MM's responsibility to draw out that talent and turn it into production. That hasn't happened, and it isn't TT's fault.

Give SPECIFIC examples of how you would have done differently if you think you could have done a better job. Give names, both of players you would have brought in and players you would have released. Then figure in the cap ramifications of each and every transaction you'd have done differently. Then determine how those cap ramifications would affect next years payroll, as well as each subsequent years payroll for as long as the contract you'd offer said player(s). Then figure out how you are going to resign our core group of young studs such as Rodgers and Jennings and T-Will and Bigby and such, all while staying under the cap. Something tells me this team would be in much worse shape with Rats running the show...

[Pacopete4]

It's not TT's fault that this team isn't producing. TT brings in talent and potential. It is MM's responsibility to get these guys prepared and conditioned and ready to play. Once the season starts, TT has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the team performs. He is not a coach. He is not a gameplanner or a play caller. He puts together a roster, and that's all. The guys on our roster are extremely talented. It is MM's responsibility to draw out that talent and turn it into production. That hasn't happened, and it isn't TT's fault.


so if TT just brings in shit O/D lineman and says here ya go MM, get the job done... its MM's fault? haha what a joke... TT should look in the mirror in the morning and be disgusted as a GM with that pathetic O/D line he runs out there every week...


ya know why MM doesnt shake it up? because thats the best shit we can put on the field... sad isnt it?

[cheesner]

It's not TT's fault that this team isn't producing. TT brings in talent and potential. It is MM's responsibility to get these guys prepared and conditioned and ready to play. Once the season starts, TT has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the team performs. He is not a coach. He is not a gameplanner or a play caller. He puts together a roster, and that's all. The guys on our roster are extremely talented. It is MM's responsibility to draw out that talent and turn it into production. That hasn't happened, and it isn't TT's fault.


so if TT just brings in shit O/D lineman and says here ya go MM, get the job done... its MM's fault? haha what a joke... TT should look in the mirror in the morning and be disgusted as a GM with that pathetic O/D line he runs out there every week...


ya know why MM doesnt shake it up? because thats the best shit we can put on the field... sad isnt it?Individual plays are a players responsibility

Games are the responsibility of the coaches

Seasons are the responsibility of the GM


This season isn't over yet, so I will hold my opinion of TT - although he put together a fantastic team last season, things have only gotten better this year (personnel wise). Injuries beyond the control or reasonable expectations of a GM cannot be held against the man.

[Gunakor]

It's not TT's fault that this team isn't producing. TT brings in talent and potential. It is MM's responsibility to get these guys prepared and conditioned and ready to play. Once the season starts, TT has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the team performs. He is not a coach. He is not a gameplanner or a play caller. He puts together a roster, and that's all. The guys on our roster are extremely talented. It is MM's responsibility to draw out that talent and turn it into production. That hasn't happened, and it isn't TT's fault.


so if TT just brings in shit O/D lineman and says here ya go MM, get the job done... its MM's fault? haha what a joke... TT should look in the mirror in the morning and be disgusted as a GM with that pathetic O/D line he runs out there every week...


ya know why MM doesnt shake it up? because thats the best shit we can put on the field... sad isnt it?

Okay, here's where we get to the question I've been waiting for an appropriate time to ask...

What makes you a better evaluator of TALENT (not production) than TT? You don't see them in practice. You haven't seen them in college. You don't know thier skill sets, or talent level, or anything else other than what you see on gameday. You don't know more than those who are actually in charge of making decisions. Who are you to say they are shit OL/DL? If you really think you know more about evaluating talent than TT and think you could right this ship, then get to work on a resume and overnight it to 1265 Lombardi Ave.

By the way, I still haven't seen examples of what you'd do to fix this situation. Which leads me to believe that you don't understand the business side of things, or that you just don't have a clue what you are talking about overall.

[Pacopete4]

It's not TT's fault that this team isn't producing. TT brings in talent and potential. It is MM's responsibility to get these guys prepared and conditioned and ready to play. Once the season starts, TT has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the team performs. He is not a coach. He is not a gameplanner or a play caller. He puts together a roster, and that's all. The guys on our roster are extremely talented. It is MM's responsibility to draw out that talent and turn it into production. That hasn't happened, and it isn't TT's fault.


so if TT just brings in shit O/D lineman and says here ya go MM, get the job done... its MM's fault? haha what a joke... TT should look in the mirror in the morning and be disgusted as a GM with that pathetic O/D line he runs out there every week...


ya know why MM doesnt shake it up? because thats the best shit we can put on the field... sad isnt it?

Okay, here's where we get to the question I've been waiting for an appropriate time to ask...

What makes you a better evaluator of TALENT (not production) than TT? You don't see them in practice. You haven't seen them in college. You don't know thier skill sets, or talent level, or anything else other than what you see on gameday. You don't know more than those who are actually in charge of making decisions. Who are you to say they are shit OL/DL? If you really think you know more about evaluating talent than TT and think you could right this ship, then get to work on a resume and overnight it to 1265 Lombardi Ave.

By the way, I still haven't seen examples of what you'd do to fix this situation. Which leads me to believe that you don't understand the business side of things, or that you just don't have a clue what you are talking about overall.



and once again.. ITS NOT MY JOB! and how can I tell... thats a stupid question.. just watch a game.. thats how u can tell... pretty simple

[Bossman641]

It's not TT's fault that this team isn't producing. TT brings in talent and potential. It is MM's responsibility to get these guys prepared and conditioned and ready to play. Once the season starts, TT has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the team performs. He is not a coach. He is not a gameplanner or a play caller. He puts together a roster, and that's all. The guys on our roster are extremely talented. It is MM's responsibility to draw out that talent and turn it into production. That hasn't happened, and it isn't TT's fault.


so if TT just brings in shit O/D lineman and says here ya go MM, get the job done... its MM's fault? haha what a joke... TT should look in the mirror in the morning and be disgusted as a GM with that pathetic O/D line he runs out there every week...


ya know why MM doesnt shake it up? because thats the best shit we can put on the field... sad isnt it?

Okay, here's where we get to the question I've been waiting for an appropriate time to ask...

What makes you a better evaluator of TALENT (not production) than TT? You don't see them in practice. You haven't seen them in college. You don't know thier skill sets, or talent level, or anything else other than what you see on gameday. You don't know more than those who are actually in charge of making decisions. Who are you to say they are shit OL/DL? If you really think you know more about evaluating talent than TT and think you could right this ship, then get to work on a resume and overnight it to 1265 Lombardi Ave.

By the way, I still haven't seen examples of what you'd do to fix this situation. Which leads me to believe that you don't understand the business side of things, or that you just don't have a clue what you are talking about overall.

There's your answer

[arcilite]

I wasn't fooled.

I love TT.

I love Aaron Rodgers.

We are only 5 games into the season, things can be turned around.

Nobody saw us getting the injury bug, no need to abandon on a ship that has been sailing a good course the last few years (4-12, 8-8, 13-3).

[Gunakor]

It's not TT's fault that this team isn't producing. TT brings in talent and potential. It is MM's responsibility to get these guys prepared and conditioned and ready to play. Once the season starts, TT has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the team performs. He is not a coach. He is not a gameplanner or a play caller. He puts together a roster, and that's all. The guys on our roster are extremely talented. It is MM's responsibility to draw out that talent and turn it into production. That hasn't happened, and it isn't TT's fault.


so if TT just brings in shit O/D lineman and says here ya go MM, get the job done... its MM's fault? haha what a joke... TT should look in the mirror in the morning and be disgusted as a GM with that pathetic O/D line he runs out there every week...


ya know why MM doesnt shake it up? because thats the best shit we can put on the field... sad isnt it?

Okay, here's where we get to the question I've been waiting for an appropriate time to ask...

What makes you a better evaluator of TALENT (not production) than TT? You don't see them in practice. You haven't seen them in college. You don't know thier skill sets, or talent level, or anything else other than what you see on gameday. You don't know more than those who are actually in charge of making decisions. Who are you to say they are shit OL/DL? If you really think you know more about evaluating talent than TT and think you could right this ship, then get to work on a resume and overnight it to 1265 Lombardi Ave.

By the way, I still haven't seen examples of what you'd do to fix this situation. Which leads me to believe that you don't understand the business side of things, or that you just don't have a clue what you are talking about overall.



and once again.. ITS NOT MY JOB! and how can I tell... thats a stupid question.. just watch a game.. thats how u can tell... pretty simple

Watch a game for what? You dont' even know what to look for. It's not that simple. I said evaluate TALENT. That is different than evaluating PRODUCTION. All you can see from watching a game is production. Production has as much to do with preparation as it does talent, and preparation - once again - is MM's responsibility.

Even by evaluating production, who on the line are you saying is playing the worst right now? It's not a TT draft pick. It's not a TT FA signing. TT has nothing at all to do with it. Why? Because it's CHAD FUCKING CLIFTON. Blame Sherman if you have to blame a GM for lack of production. Still wrong, but if you absolutely HAVE to blame a GM, that's who to point the finger at. The interior line brought in by TT is not the issue right now. Why can't you grasp that? Why?

[Pacopete4]

when we dont get in the playoffs, and we maaaaaybe get 8 wins.. i'll come back to you on how much u like TT..

[Gunakor]

when we dont get in the playoffs, and we maaaaaybe get 8 wins.. i'll come back to you on how much u like TT..

Lemme ask you, did you say the same thing in August of last year? Yeah, thought so.

The rosters are basically the same, with the exception of one iconic starter at a position whose production hasn't changed a whole lot. Why then were they so terrific last year but they are bums this year? The talent level is the same... it's the PRODUCTION that went down. And that one can't be put on TT.

Nevermind. I'm through with this. I can't help you if you are ignorant by choice.

[Pacopete4]

when we dont get in the playoffs, and we maaaaaybe get 8 wins.. i'll come back to you on how much u like TT..

Lemme ask you, did you say the same thing in August of last year? Yeah, thought so. Nevermind. I'm through with this. I can't help you if you are ignorant by choice.


I predicted 9 wins this season... its not like im jumping off a roof or something here

[Gunakor]

I predicted 9 wins this season... its not like im jumping off a roof or something here

Last season. The season we went 13-3. What did you predict before THAT season began? I'll bet you were mighty suprised by the result.

[Pacopete4]

I predicted 9 wins this season... its not like im jumping off a roof or something here

Last season. The season we went 13-3. What did you predict before THAT season began? I'll bet you were mighty suprised by the result.


10 wins... and more than likely that is what the team was talent wise.. a 10 win team... luck and good fortune played a lot into 13 wins

[Gunakor]

I predicted 9 wins this season... its not like im jumping off a roof or something here

Last season. The season we went 13-3. What did you predict before THAT season began? I'll bet you were mighty suprised by the result.


10 wins... and more than likely that is what the team was talent wise.. a 10 win team... luck and good fortune played a lot into 13 wins

Injuries. Bad luck and bad fortune play alot into 2-3 right now. It goes both ways Paco.

[Pacopete4]

I predicted 9 wins this season... its not like im jumping off a roof or something here

Last season. The season we went 13-3. What did you predict before THAT season began? I'll bet you were mighty suprised by the result.


10 wins... and more than likely that is what the team was talent wise.. a 10 win team... luck and good fortune played a lot into 13 wins

Injuries. Bad luck and bad fortune play alot into 2-3 right now. It goes both ways Paco.


or we're just awful on both sides of the line... thats more of the answer

[Gunakor]

I predicted 9 wins this season... its not like im jumping off a roof or something here

Last season. The season we went 13-3. What did you predict before THAT season began? I'll bet you were mighty suprised by the result.


10 wins... and more than likely that is what the team was talent wise.. a 10 win team... luck and good fortune played a lot into 13 wins

Injuries. Bad luck and bad fortune play alot into 2-3 right now. It goes both ways Paco.


or we're just awful on both sides of the line... thats more of the answer

Basically the same OL and DL we had last season Paco - how do you explain that without mentioning penalties or injuries?

[Pacopete4]

dp

[Pacopete4]

I predicted 9 wins this season... its not like im jumping off a roof or something here

Last season. The season we went 13-3. What did you predict before THAT season began? I'll bet you were mighty suprised by the result.


10 wins... and more than likely that is what the team was talent wise.. a 10 win team... luck and good fortune played a lot into 13 wins

Injuries. Bad luck and bad fortune play alot into 2-3 right now. It goes both ways Paco.



dline wasnt that good last season no matter what u say

oline was helped by a certain player whos name cannot be said aloud

or we're just awful on both sides of the line... thats more of the answer

Basically the same OL and DL we had last season Paco - how do you explain that without mentioning penalties or injuries?



dline stunk last season mainly too..

oline was helped by a former player whos name cannot be mentioned

[Gunakor]

I predicted 9 wins this season... its not like im jumping off a roof or something here

Last season. The season we went 13-3. What did you predict before THAT season began? I'll bet you were mighty suprised by the result.


10 wins... and more than likely that is what the team was talent wise.. a 10 win team... luck and good fortune played a lot into 13 wins

Injuries. Bad luck and bad fortune play alot into 2-3 right now. It goes both ways Paco.



dline wasnt that good last season no matter what u say

oline was helped by a certain player whos name cannot be said aloud

or we're just awful on both sides of the line... thats more of the answer

Basically the same OL and DL we had last season Paco - how do you explain that without mentioning penalties or injuries?



dline stunk last season mainly too..

oline was helped by a former player whos name cannot be mentioned

D-Line was getting multiple sacks every game last year. There were 11 outstanding players on that line and the rotation kept them fresh throughout the game. They were simply imposing thier will on everyone late in games last year, or don't you remember? It was extremely fun to watch, I'm sorry you missed it.

O-Line's pass pro was decent last year. Not great, but very decent. Run blocking was suspect. That was helped by a CURRENT Packer, and I'll go ahead and say his name. Ryan Grant. He's another guy I can't wait to get his game up to speed...

[Pacopete4]

I predicted 9 wins this season... its not like im jumping off a roof or something here

Last season. The season we went 13-3. What did you predict before THAT season began? I'll bet you were mighty suprised by the result.


10 wins... and more than likely that is what the team was talent wise.. a 10 win team... luck and good fortune played a lot into 13 wins

Injuries. Bad luck and bad fortune play alot into 2-3 right now. It goes both ways Paco.






dline wasnt that good last season no matter what u say

oline was helped by a certain player whos name cannot be said aloud

or we're just awful on both sides of the line... thats more of the answer

Basically the same OL and DL we had last season Paco - how do you explain that without mentioning penalties or injuries?



dline stunk last season mainly too..

oline was helped by a former player whos name cannot be mentioned

D-Line was getting multiple sacks every game last year. There were 11 outstanding players on that line and the rotation kept them fresh throughout the game. They were simply imposing thier will on everyone late in games last year, or don't you remember? It was extremely fun to watch, I'm sorry you missed it.

O-Line's pass pro was decent last year. Not great, but very decent. Run blocking was suspect. That was helped by a CURRENT Packer, and I'll go ahead and say his name. Ryan Grant. He's another guy I can't wait to get his game up to speed...Grant was made by the player who cannot be mentioned.. he's probably already texted Brett thankin him for the fat contract because now they dont have to respect the pass outta our O... they can play normal D and we cannot run..

[Gunakor]

Grant was made by the player who cannot be mentioned.. he's probably already texted Brett thankin him for the fat contract because now they dont have to respect the pass outta our O... they can play normal D and we cannot run..

Don't have to respect the pass from our O? Are you crazy? The first team that doesn't respect Aaron's arm is the first to get lit up by it. I shouldn't even have to argue that one. Come on now...

Dude, lets just end this. It's apparent that your hatred of TT isn't going to change, no matter how many ways I or anyone else describe the real problems of this team to you. You continue to go on believing that it's the players TT brought in that are damning this team right now. Most of us know better.

[The Shadow]

I predicted 9 wins this season... its not like im jumping off a roof or something here

Last season. The season we went 13-3. What did you predict before THAT season began? I'll bet you were mighty suprised by the result.


10 wins... and more than likely that is what the team was talent wise.. a 10 win team... luck and good fortune played a lot into 13 wins

Injuries. Bad luck and bad fortune play alot into 2-3 right now. It goes both ways Paco.






dline wasnt that good last season no matter what u say

oline was helped by a certain player whos name cannot be said aloud

or we're just awful on both sides of the line... thats more of the answer

Basically the same OL and DL we had last season Paco - how do you explain that without mentioning penalties or injuries?



dline stunk last season mainly too..

oline was helped by a former player whos name cannot be mentioned

D-Line was getting multiple sacks every game last year. There were 11 outstanding players on that line and the rotation kept them fresh throughout the game. They were simply imposing thier will on everyone late in games last year, or don't you remember? It was extremely fun to watch, I'm sorry you missed it.

O-Line's pass pro was decent last year. Not great, but very decent. Run blocking was suspect. That was helped by a CURRENT Packer, and I'll go ahead and say his name. Ryan Grant. He's another guy I can't wait to get his game up to speed...Grant was made by the player who cannot be mentioned.. he's probably already texted Brett thankin him for the fat contract because now they dont have to respect the pass outta our O... they can play normal D and we cannot run..


Cue Twilight Zone theme.

[cpk1994]

I predicted 9 wins this season... its not like im jumping off a roof or something here

Last season. The season we went 13-3. What did you predict before THAT season began? I'll bet you were mighty suprised by the result.


10 wins... and more than likely that is what the team was talent wise.. a 10 win team... luck and good fortune played a lot into 13 wins

Injuries. Bad luck and bad fortune play alot into 2-3 right now. It goes both ways Paco.






dline wasnt that good last season no matter what u say

oline was helped by a certain player whos name cannot be said aloud

or we're just awful on both sides of the line... thats more of the answer

Basically the same OL and DL we had last season Paco - how do you explain that without mentioning penalties or injuries?



dline stunk last season mainly too..

oline was helped by a former player whos name cannot be mentioned

D-Line was getting multiple sacks every game last year. There were 11 outstanding players on that line and the rotation kept them fresh throughout the game. They were simply imposing thier will on everyone late in games last year, or don't you remember? It was extremely fun to watch, I'm sorry you missed it.

O-Line's pass pro was decent last year. Not great, but very decent. Run blocking was suspect. That was helped by a CURRENT Packer, and I'll go ahead and say his name. Ryan Grant. He's another guy I can't wait to get his game up to speed...Grant was made by the player who cannot be mentioned.. he's probably already texted Brett thankin him for the fat contract because now they dont have to respect the pass outta our O... they can play normal D and we cannot run..IF you suck Favre's dick anymore, he is going to have burns.

[mraynrand]

Grant was made by the player who cannot be mentioned.. he's probably already texted Brett thankin him for the fat contract because now they dont have to respect the pass outta our O... they can play normal D and we cannot run..

I think this speaks to the line woes. For example, in the Tampa game, the D basically played 7 in the box and stopped the run. They were able to play base defense and stop the run. That base allowed them to play cover 2 on most downs. You have to be able to run against 7 or you're going to struggle on offense. I don't think that had all that much to do with He Who Cannot Be Named.

[Pacopete4]

how does everyone feel about this thread today? MM is a joke and TT is a snake in the grass....


MM no discipline, horrible in game coach
TT abysmal talent on the o and d lines...

[MOBB DEEP]

how does everyone feel about this thread today? MM is a joke and TT is a snake in the grass....


MM no discipline, horrible in game coach
TT abysmal talent on the o and d lines...


lol

u thnk u're trolln?

[Pacopete4]

how does everyone feel about this thread today? MM is a joke and TT is a snake in the grass....


MM no discipline, horrible in game coach
TT abysmal talent on the o and d lines...


lol

u thnk u're trolln?



I guess if "trollin" means pointing out the truth, then ya, I'm trollin I guess ha

[MOBB DEEP]

how does everyone feel about this thread today? MM is a joke and TT is a snake in the grass....


MM no discipline, horrible in game coach
TT abysmal talent on the o and d lines...


lol

u thnk u're trolln?



I guess if "trollin" means pointing out the truth, then ya, I'm trollin I guess ha


yeah, u know where u are..........

[Pacopete4]

BUMP!

[Gunakor]

BUMP!

Troll.

[Pacopete4]

BUMP!

Troll.


you're telling me u weren't fooled into thinking MM could coach and TT could manage a roster?... I sure as hell was... not sure why that's being a troll..


we were all fooled.. get their asses out the door and lets get some knowledgeable football guys in there to fix this mess

[Gunakor]

BUMP!

Troll.


you're telling me u weren't fooled into thinking MM could coach and TT could manage a roster?... I sure as hell was... not sure why that's being a troll..


we were all fooled.. get their asses out the door and lets get some knowledgeable football guys in there to fix this mess

You are a troll for bumping this damn thread in the first place. What other reason would you have for doing so other than to stir shit up. Go away.

P.S. I'd really like to know how TT mismanaged this roster overall. He's decimated the DL, but has a chance to fix it. Other than that, where did he fuck up?

Oh wait, the quarterback, right?

:roll:

[Pacopete4]

BUMP!

Troll.


you're telling me u weren't fooled into thinking MM could coach and TT could manage a roster?... I sure as hell was... not sure why that's being a troll..


we were all fooled.. get their asses out the door and lets get some knowledgeable football guys in there to fix this mess

You are a troll for bumping this damn thread in the first place. What other reason would you have for doing so other than to stir shit up. Go away.


stir shit up? I am merely pointing out that I was 100% correct u fuckin douche... go cry about it in the corner if u cant accept the inept coaches we have and the dumbass GM that doesn't go out and get quality players... waaaah waaaaaah waaaaaaaah! fuckin loser...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Pacopete sure does melt down when his teams lose (Crew, Pack). I just can't see getting that worked up over my favorite sports team. Maybe it's my age.

[Pacopete4]

Pacopete sure does melt down when his teams lose (Crew, Pack). I just can't see getting that worked up over my favorite sports team. Maybe it's my age.


you are probably right.. i get angry about it.. its something I really care about and when I have some dumbass snake ruining my team I get a little cranky

[Rastak]

Pacopete sure does melt down when his teams lose (Crew, Pack). I just can't see getting that worked up over my favorite sports team. Maybe it's my age.


It is.

I got the same deal going. I care alot but the world doesn't end now if the team loses. When I was in my early 20's I'd be pissed for days.

[Gunakor]

BUMP!

Troll.


you're telling me u weren't fooled into thinking MM could coach and TT could manage a roster?... I sure as hell was... not sure why that's being a troll..


we were all fooled.. get their asses out the door and lets get some knowledgeable football guys in there to fix this mess

You are a troll for bumping this damn thread in the first place. What other reason would you have for doing so other than to stir shit up. Go away.


stir shit up? I am merely pointing out that I was 100% correct u fuckin douche... go cry about it in the corner if u cant accept the inept coaches we have and the dumbass GM that doesn't go out and get quality players... waaaah waaaaaah waaaaaaaah! fuckin loser...

OH I WAS RIGHT YOU WERE WRONG SO LET ME GLOAT ABOUT IT LIKE A FUCKING 3 YEAR OLD!!!!

As if you could do any better with your intimate knowledge of the game...

[cpk1994]

Pacopete sure does melt down when his teams lose (Crew, Pack). I just can't see getting that worked up over my favorite sports team. Maybe it's my age.Hes not melting down. Its called TROLLING. Big difference.

[Gunakor]

I've bookmarked this thread so that when this team is back to winning and going deep into the playoffs under TT's watch with Rodgers at QB I can gloat like a fucking 3 year old that you were 100% wrong Paco. You fucking know nothing child, just go away with your "Well I was 100% right so I just wanted to gloat about it" bullshit.

[Pacopete4]

I've bookmarked this thread so that when this team is back to winning and going deep into the playoffs under TT's watch with Rodgers at QB I can gloat like a fucking 3 year old that you were 100% wrong Paco. You fucking know nothing child, just go away with your "Well I was 100% right so I just wanted to gloat about it" bullshit.


until they do... why dont u shut ur fuckin yapper because I was right... and I'm not rippin Rodgers, I'm rippin TT/MM because they're idiots!

[Gunakor]

I've bookmarked this thread so that when this team is back to winning and going deep into the playoffs under TT's watch with Rodgers at QB I can gloat like a fucking 3 year old that you were 100% wrong Paco. You fucking know nothing child, just go away with your "Well I was 100% right so I just wanted to gloat about it" bullshit.


until they do... why dont u shut ur fuckin yapper because I was right... and I'm not rippin Rodgers, I'm rippin TT/MM because they're idiots!

It's not yet been proven who's right yet Paco. The decision to go with Rodgers has more to do with the next 5 years than it did with this one specifically. Why don't you try wrapping your brain around that one.

And this has little to do with whether they are right or wrong, but rather with your petty juvenile gloating. You bump a 2 month old thread just to say "Hey Look At Me, I Was Right". Do you feel better for it?

And you call me the loser...

[Packnut]

I've bookmarked this thread so that when this team is back to winning and going deep into the playoffs under TT's watch with Rodgers at QB I can gloat like a fucking 3 year old that you were 100% wrong Paco. You fucking know nothing child, just go away with your "Well I was 100% right so I just wanted to gloat about it" bullshit.

It must be nice to live in fantasy land. To just ignore all the facts and evidence and just keep believing because God forbid you can't be wrong. Our LB's suck. Our O-line is inconsistent. We Have ONE FREAKIN player on the D-line (don't give me Jenkins cause the guy can't stay healthy). WE have 2 CB's with what a year or two left? At this rate Teddy will need ANOTHER 4 years to fix this. Ya know, it's one thing to be stubborn cause you can't admit you were wrong but it's another when your just stupid!

[Gunakor]

I've bookmarked this thread so that when this team is back to winning and going deep into the playoffs under TT's watch with Rodgers at QB I can gloat like a fucking 3 year old that you were 100% wrong Paco. You fucking know nothing child, just go away with your "Well I was 100% right so I just wanted to gloat about it" bullshit.

It must be nice to live in fantasy land. To just ignore all the facts and evidence and just keep believing because God forbid you can't be wrong. Our LB's suck. Our O-line is inconsistent. We Have ONE FREAKIN player on the D-line (don't give me Jenkins cause the guy can't stay healthy). WE have 2 CB's with what a year or two left? At this rate Teddy will need ANOTHER 4 years to fix this. Ya know, it's one thing to be stubborn cause you can't admit you were wrong but it's another when your just stupid!

And I suppose that we'll have the same OL and DL and LB's next year too. There won't be a draft, there will be no FA's, nothing. In fact, our injured DL and LB and OL won't get healthy either. We are just stuck with the players we have now for the forseeable future. Things will never get better, right?

It's one thing to be a pessimist but this is something else...

[Pacopete4]

I've bookmarked this thread so that when this team is back to winning and going deep into the playoffs under TT's watch with Rodgers at QB I can gloat like a fucking 3 year old that you were 100% wrong Paco. You fucking know nothing child, just go away with your "Well I was 100% right so I just wanted to gloat about it" bullshit.


until they do... why dont u shut ur fuckin yapper because I was right... and I'm not rippin Rodgers, I'm rippin TT/MM because they're idiots!

It's not yet been proven who's right yet Paco. The decision to go with Rodgers has more to do with the next 5 years than it did with this one specifically. Why don't you try wrapping your brain around that one.

And this has little to do with whether they are right or wrong, but rather with your petty juvenile gloating. You bump a 2 month old thread just to say "Hey Look At Me, I Was Right". Do you feel better for it?

And you call me the loser...



you're honestly willing to give that fuckin snake 5 more years just to see if ur right? haaha ur fuckin laughable

[Gunakor]

I've bookmarked this thread so that when this team is back to winning and going deep into the playoffs under TT's watch with Rodgers at QB I can gloat like a fucking 3 year old that you were 100% wrong Paco. You fucking know nothing child, just go away with your "Well I was 100% right so I just wanted to gloat about it" bullshit.


until they do... why dont u shut ur fuckin yapper because I was right... and I'm not rippin Rodgers, I'm rippin TT/MM because they're idiots!

It's not yet been proven who's right yet Paco. The decision to go with Rodgers has more to do with the next 5 years than it did with this one specifically. Why don't you try wrapping your brain around that one.

And this has little to do with whether they are right or wrong, but rather with your petty juvenile gloating. You bump a 2 month old thread just to say "Hey Look At Me, I Was Right". Do you feel better for it?

And you call me the loser...



you're honestly willing to give that fuckin snake 5 more years just to see if ur right? haaha ur fuckin laughable

No I'm willing to give him 5 years because he's proven to be able to do the job. Don't forget about the Super Bowl team he built in Seattle before he came here. How are the Seahawks doing now that TT isn't there anymore? The Packers were one errant Brett Favre pass away from a Super Bowl themselves last season, so I think he's earned the right to try and fix some of the problems we've had this year.

You are willing to can a guy after one dismal injury plagued season? THATS laughable.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I've bookmarked this thread so that when this team is back to winning and going deep into the playoffs under TT's watch with Rodgers at QB I can gloat like a fucking 3 year old that you were 100% wrong Paco. You fucking know nothing child, just go away with your "Well I was 100% right so I just wanted to gloat about it" bullshit.

It must be nice to live in fantasy land. To just ignore all the facts and evidence and just keep believing because God forbid you can't be wrong. Our LB's suck. Our O-line is inconsistent. We Have ONE FREAKIN player on the D-line (don't give me Jenkins cause the guy can't stay healthy). WE have 2 CB's with what a year or two left? At this rate Teddy will need ANOTHER 4 years to fix this. Ya know, it's one thing to be stubborn cause you can't admit you were wrong but it's another when your just stupid!

And I suppose that we'll have the same OL and DL and LB's next year too. There won't be a draft, there will be no FA's, nothing. In fact, our injured DL and LB and OL won't get healthy either. We are just stuck with the players we have now for the forseeable future. Things will never get better, right?

It's one thing to be a pessimist but this is something else...

Some people just love losing and get off on being negative. If it's one thing I've learned from poker some habitual losers deep down crave losing. They need that sick sadistic feeling in their gut like Tyrone Biggums needs crack. You can't win against these type of people, just ignore the troll and move on.