What is the Pack's biggest issue?

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'm asking you to vote and then state what you voted. That's all. No big analyzing posts or flaming allowed. Let's just get a role call on who thinks what at this point in the season.

I've put the main ones that I can tell from the posts around here.
I haven't seen the RBs or WRs really being ripped that much so I'm leaving them out.

Here's mine: DL

[packers11]

I voted Bob Sanders. It was very close between him and the defensive line but this guy takes way to long to adjust... Why he didn't have Charles Woodson play on Roddy White the whole game blows my mind away. I mean Roddy White is no T.O. and maybe he thought a #4 cb could cover him (Blackmon), but come on...

Also, if the D-LINE is getting NO PRESSURE. Create some blitz's that actually work, not 10 yard delay blitz's. Also move around the LB's a bit, the defense is so vanilla.

[Bossman641]

Geez, this is a tough call cause there are so many areas playing bad.

I went with MM, mainly because of penalties. I don't know what is going on, but they are killing the Packers. It's not like they're even aggressive penalties, just stupid ones. A few of them yesterday seemed a little iffy. Was that a legit unnecessary roughness on Collins? It looked like horseshit from where I was sitting.

[PackerTimer]

I had to go with the defensive line. While the offensive line has been brutal and the secondary has given up his fair share of big plays the offense has done enough to win games and the secondary is no doubt hurt by the defensive line's abysmal performance. Once again yesterday, our defensive line never even sniffed the QB.

[Pacopete4]

I went with TT. First he let go a HOF, Pro Bow QB that made our team one of the elite teams in the NFL and then he didn't surround his young, basically a rookie QB, with enough talent to help the kid out... baaaaad baaaad move TT... I predict u will lose ur job after next season

[Tony Oday]

I went with TT. First he let go a HOF, Pro Bow QB that made our team one of the elite teams in the NFL and then he didn't surround his young, basically a rookie QB, with enough talent to help the kid out... baaaaad baaaad move TT... I predict u will lose ur job after next season

I predict you are dead wrong here. No way he is gone next year even if we dont have a winning season which I think we will.

[oregonpackfan]

I went with defensive line. They put little or no pressure on the quarterback. In addition, they could not stop running plays.

This put added pressure on the linebackers to make the plays.

One statistic I found alarming during the game was the Falcons were averaging over 8 yards a play on first down! How can you stop their offense when you give up an average of 8 yards a play on first down?

[Gunakor]

I went with TT. First he let go a HOF, Pro Bow QB that made our team one of the elite teams in the NFL and then he didn't surround his young, basically a rookie QB, with enough talent to help the kid out... baaaaad baaaad move TT... I predict u will lose ur job after next season


ROFL here man. Most would say that we have the deepest WR corps in the NFL top to bottom right now. In this year's draft, the first pick was on a WR who had 122 catches last year in college. His 4th pick was on one of the more athletic TE's in the draft, and while he's made some dumb rookie mistakes thus far he's still got good speed and good hands - and will soon become a helluva weapon at A-Rod's disposal. TT has put TONS of talent around Rodgers.

The problem this year has been on the defensive side of the ball. They can't stop the run. They can't get pressure on the QB. They haven't been able to get off the field on 3rd down with any consistency. There isn't much wrong with the offense right now. Only 3 teams in the NFC have scored more points than us so far this year, but only 2 teams in the NFC have allowed more points against than we have. That's a big reason we are 2-3 right now.

[sheepshead]

I went with TT. First he let go a HOF, Pro Bow QB that made our team one of the elite teams in the NFL and then he didn't surround his young, basically a rookie QB, with enough talent to help the kid out... baaaaad baaaad move TT... I predict u will lose ur job after next season




http://www.esnips.com/doc/f1def9bb-b033-4a90-b4a9-a9bb2a2e5db6/Halloween---Scary-Organ-Music

[Spaulding]

I went with TT. First he let go a HOF, Pro Bow QB that made our team one of the elite teams in the NFL and then he didn't surround his young, basically a rookie QB, with enough talent to help the kid out... baaaaad baaaad move TT... I predict u will lose ur job after next season

Argument makes no sense. it's basically the same team as last year minus Favre and Williams but with a new draft class.

Favre or no Favre I don't see our record much different. Aaron hasn't been the sole reason for the losses nor was he the sole reason for the first two wins. Problem has been injuries and in the trenches.

The ZBS needs go as does Sanders unless he generates some type of rush in the coming weeks.

[Packers4Ever]

I went with TT. First he let go a HOF, Pro Bow QB that made our team one of the elite teams in the NFL and then he didn't surround his young, basically a rookie QB, with enough talent to help the kid out... baaaaad baaaad move TT... I predict u will lose ur job after next season

Argument makes no sense. it's basically the same team as last year minus Favre and Williams but with a new draft class.

Favre or no Favre I don't see our record much different. Aaron hasn't been the sole reason for the losses nor was he the sole reason for the first two wins. Problem has been injuries and in the trenches.

The ZBS needs go as does Sanders unless he generates some type of rush in the coming weeks.

I voted for Defense also and BTW, excellent answers here... If only TT and MM took suggestions, by email or whatever. Laugh if you will, betcha you'd see ideas in play the following Sunday.

The question I wish I could answer is - where did our team go? :roll:

[MOBB DEEP]

TED (INFAMY) THOMPSON

[Tony Oday]

TED (INFAMY) THOMPSON

Ted "The Rebuilder" Thompson

[AtlPackFan]

Defensive line.

[MOBB DEEP]

TED (INFAMY) THOMPSON

Ted "The Rebuilder" Thompson


lol rebuilding year after 13-3 nfccg year....thus "infamy"

[Fred's Slacks]

I feel like short term, our biggest problem is the DLine. With Jenkins gone, I fear we don't have the talent to be a legit championship team. But I also feel that, when healthy, they have the talent to be there. Hopefully this will give us an opportunity to build the depth needed to overcome these injuries in the future.

I actually voted for MM. I think that right now, the team discipline has been the biggest issue. If the offensive line cut out the fundamental errors and the penalties, this team would probably be 4-1 right now and have much fewer injuries.

[Gunakor]

TED (INFAMY) THOMPSON

Ted "The Rebuilder" Thompson


lol rebuilding year after 13-3 nfccg year....thus "infamy"

Brett couldn't come back. Either that or Aaron had to go. Either way, something had to change. Don't make me go through the reasons again. This wasn't going to be the same team as '07.

Besides, don't you think it's pretty cool that TT and BF had the Packers going 13-3 and in the NFC Championship game WHILE rebuilding? You don't think this is the beginning of the rebuilding, do you? Fuck no. It started by getting rid of Whale and Rivera and drafting Aaron Rodgers. It continued by getting rid of Robert Ferguson and drafting Greg Jennings. How about cutting Ahmad Carroll and signing Charles Woodson? Letting Ahman Green walk in FA, drafting Brandon Jackson and signing Ryan Grant? Out with Cletidus Hunt, in with Ryan Pickett. Drafting James Jones and Jordy Nelson to give Rodgers a more lethal group of recievers than Favre ever had. There's been rebuilding going on for quite some time now, and we were just lucky enough to finish 13-3 and go to an NFC Championship game even before we were done. Make no mistake about it though, we weren't done and still aren't.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

This thread is missing the Packers BIGGEST ISSUE, INJURIES. However, since that is not a choice I went with the revolving door we call an offensive line. Drives can not be sustained because of weak play in that area.

[red]

i went with TT, not just for roster creation, but because the buck stops with him

its almost like an "all of the above" type of answer

but i wouldn't blame the qb play

[texaspackerbacker]

I was shocked to find that I was apparently the first one to vote for the secondary being the problem. It just seems so obvious to me that injuries to Harris, Bigby, and Rouse, along with Woodson and maybe Collins playing slightly hurt are the main reason for problems.

We have had too many long gains, running and passing that are directly attributable to the secondary--remember the long run by Felix Jones where Peprah messed up? Williams has generally been excellent and Blackmon OK, but both had big bad penalties on pass plays against Atlanta.

IMO, the offense is coming around; The D Line is doing its job fairly decently, considering talent level; The Bates/Sanders scheme is exactly what this or any team needs--bend-don't-break, NOT a bunch of blitzing that does more harm than good; And the play calling, well, as they get more confidence in Rodgers, as well as getting the running game up to speed, that will be OK,

[Pugger]

I voted for D line. If we can't pressure the QB or stop the run it won't matter WHAT we do on offense. You can't give up 8 yards on first down and expect to win, period. :cry:

[Harlan Huckleby]

I was shocked to find that I was apparently the first one to vote for the secondary being the problem. It just seems so obvious to me that injuries to Harris, Bigby, and Rouse, along with Woodson and maybe Collins playing slightly hurt are the main reason for problems. ,

Williams is better than Harris. It hurts having Bigby and Rouse injured at the same time, but both could be back to 100% after the bye. Collins looks fine, Peprah is OK. Harris will back at some point. I don't see any huge problem in the secondary now, and they are strong for the season.

[bobblehead]

I went with defensive line. They put little or no pressure on the quarterback. In addition, they could not stop running plays.

This put added pressure on the linebackers to make the plays.

One statistic I found alarming during the game was the Falcons were averaging over 8 yards a play on first down! How can you stop their offense when you give up an average of 8 yards a play on first down?

That is our defensive philosophy....give up chunks on early downs, but hope a team makes a couple mistakes to create 3rd and long then stop them....but too often we don't even do that. Then we hope to use special teams to win field position...which we haven't been doing...and finally control the clock on offense and hope we put up more points...which we have'n't been doing.

[texaspackerbacker]

I was shocked to find that I was apparently the first one to vote for the secondary being the problem. It just seems so obvious to me that injuries to Harris, Bigby, and Rouse, along with Woodson and maybe Collins playing slightly hurt are the main reason for problems. ,

Williams is better than Harris. It hurts having Bigby and Rouse injured at the same time, but both could be back to 100% after the bye. Collins looks fine, Peprah is OK. Harris will back at some point. I don't see any huge problem in the secondary now, and they are strong for the season.

All true.

I thought we were talking about what brought about the calamity of three straight losses, though.

Things, indeed, should be much better as those guys get back.

[Carolina_Packer]

Gotta be the defensive line/linebackers. The line isn't getting the necessary pressure to make even a rookie QB flinch in the pocket, and the line is not taking on the OL enough to free up the linebackers to make plays behind them enough. Hawk is hurt but doing the best he can, Barnett looks like he's regressed and not being the big playmaker, and Poppinga/Chillar aren't doing enough either. You gotta beat your man off the ball, and you gotta have gap discipline in this defensive scheme. The secondary is very banged up, so we are playing some guys who would normally be situational in coverage instead of front line starters. The D has to be able to make some stops and get the ball back to the offense. If they keep getting man-handled up front with no pressure, we'll make the most the pedestrian QB look even better with all kinds of time to throw, and if we don't get more push up front and have the D-lineman take on more blocks, and wreak havoc, our linebackers are not going to be able to flow to the action, they'll be taken on by a lineman. That's the biggest problem. We'll see if the O-line can keep making it come together for the running game, stop commiting dumb penalties and give Rodgers more of a solid pocket, instead of having to move around so much on pass plays.

[retailguy]

Offensive line. Without a doubt. They need more time on the field for the offense. The DL is weak, however, limiting their time is the "best fix" we've got for this year.

[sheepshead]

How about this?

It's Ugly!




http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

[Patler]

MM - but not because of play calling, team discipline, etc. I think he may have to re-evaluate his training camp approach. The team has not been ready to play in most aspects.

If there was one major area, it could be fixed quickly and the team would not have lost three in a row. The defense is playing poorly, terrible against the run, no pressure from the D-line, the linebackers have not made game-significant plays, and there has been admitted miscommunication in the backfield leading to big plays. The O-line has not pass blocked well, both tackles have started poorly in both run and pass blocking, the RBs, FBs and line share the blame in the running game, the TEs and WRs have missed blocks that would have made big differences on specific plays. While the passing game (qb and receivers) has been fairly good, there has been a higher than expected number of dropped passes. Even special teams, which should be a strength, have shown poor play (preparation?) on coverage.

Throw in all the penalties, and you have a team that was not ready to start the season. Inadequate training camp buildup to the season, perhaps.

Add the uncontrollable factor of some key injuries and you have a 3 game skid.

Injuries happen. The rest can be fixed, but it may take a few weeks.

[DonHutson]

This thread is missing the Packers BIGGEST ISSUE, INJURIES. However, since that is not a choice I went with the revolving door we call an offensive line. Drives can not be sustained because of weak play in that area.

I would've voted for injuries as well. With that not an option I voted DL. With Jenkins out and KGB apparently washed up, I don't know where the pass rush will come from. Kampman can only do so much by himself.

Given the injuries and lack of pass rush, the secondary hasn't been that bad. Certainly nobody is making their job easier.

OL needs some work also, but most weeks we've scored enough to win. I've said it before, but I don't think Campen is much of an OL coach. I don't see any improvement from any of these high to mid round picks at all.

[mraynrand]

1) Injuries
2) Offensive line
3) Defensive philosophy (the same philosophy was OK last year, but it doesn't seem to be sustainable long term. Making things worse is that the Packers are saddled at this point without any playmakers in the front 7).

[Zool]

Denver(#29) runs the same system.
Dolphins(#7) just switched this season.

Might be time to scrap the Sanders experiment. Injuries dont help, but with the ends lined up so wide, off tackle runs have more space if the LB's arent filling and the tackles arent occupying 2 guys.

[Bretsky]

VANILLA BOB

[Badgerinmaine]

DL.

[KYPack]

MM - but not because of play calling, team discipline, etc. I think he may have to re-evaluate his training camp approach. The team has not been ready to play in most aspects.

If there was one major area, it could be fixed quickly and the team would not have lost three in a row. The defense is playing poorly, terrible against the run, no pressure from the D-line, the linebackers have not made game-significant plays, and there has been admitted miscommunication in the backfield leading to big plays. The O-line has not pass blocked well, both tackles have started poorly in both run and pass blocking, the RBs, FBs and line share the blame in the running game, the TEs and WRs have missed blocks that would have made big differences on specific plays. While the passing game (qb and receivers) has been fairly good, there has been a higher than expected number of dropped passes. Even special teams, which should be a strength, have shown poor play (preparation?) on coverage.

Throw in all the penalties, and you have a team that was not ready to start the season. Inadequate training camp buildup to the season, perhaps.

Add the uncontrollable factor of some key injuries and you have a 3 game skid.

Injuries happen. The rest can be fixed, but it may take a few weeks.

Dern Patler. You are right & all, but shit, how do we fix a mess like that?

That is one depressing laundry list

[steve823]

MM - but not because of play calling, team discipline, etc. I think he may have to re-evaluate his training camp approach. The team has not been ready to play in most aspects.

If there was one major area, it could be fixed quickly and the team would not have lost three in a row. The defense is playing poorly, terrible against the run, no pressure from the D-line, the linebackers have not made game-significant plays, and there has been admitted miscommunication in the backfield leading to big plays. The O-line has not pass blocked well, both tackles have started poorly in both run and pass blocking, the RBs, FBs and line share the blame in the running game, the TEs and WRs have missed blocks that would have made big differences on specific plays. While the passing game (qb and receivers) has been fairly good, there has been a higher than expected number of dropped passes. Even special teams, which should be a strength, have shown poor play (preparation?) on coverage.

Throw in all the penalties, and you have a team that was not ready to start the season. Inadequate training camp buildup to the season, perhaps.

Add the uncontrollable factor of some key injuries and you have a 3 game skid.

Injuries happen. The rest can be fixed, but it may take a few weeks.

Dern Patler. You are right & all, but shit, how do we fix a mess like that?

That is one depressing laundry list

Well we can start with looking for a new defensive coordinator. Out with Bob Sanders.

I like nd believe in TT and MM but Sanders has to go. He doesnt even adjust his "gameplan" if you can even call it that from week to week. Yes there are injuries but if your not getting pressure blitz or try something new.

[Patler]

MM - but not because of play calling, team discipline, etc. I think he may have to re-evaluate his training camp approach. The team has not been ready to play in most aspects.

If there was one major area, it could be fixed quickly and the team would not have lost three in a row. The defense is playing poorly, terrible against the run, no pressure from the D-line, the linebackers have not made game-significant plays, and there has been admitted miscommunication in the backfield leading to big plays. The O-line has not pass blocked well, both tackles have started poorly in both run and pass blocking, the RBs, FBs and line share the blame in the running game, the TEs and WRs have missed blocks that would have made big differences on specific plays. While the passing game (qb and receivers) has been fairly good, there has been a higher than expected number of dropped passes. Even special teams, which should be a strength, have shown poor play (preparation?) on coverage.

Throw in all the penalties, and you have a team that was not ready to start the season. Inadequate training camp buildup to the season, perhaps.

Add the uncontrollable factor of some key injuries and you have a 3 game skid.

Injuries happen. The rest can be fixed, but it may take a few weeks.

Dern Patler. You are right & all, but shit, how do we fix a mess like that?

That is one depressing laundry list

I really think he has to up the intensity and physicalness of practices for a few weeks. That in itself will be difficult to do now because of all the injuries.

The leaders of the team have to appeal to their teammates pride.

That, .... and hope.

[wist43]

TT... it's his job to put it all together.

Regardless of philosophy (wimp ball, or power ball), TT is charged with acquriing the players needed to implement those philosophies.

Favre walks, Williams walks, he bottom feeds for OL... the one he did invest in, Colledge, is a head case.

He has aging corners but didn't see the need to address that situation - maybe Pat Lee turns into a player down the road, but right now, they're hurting badly... and TT has enough of a resume now that we can assume that TT will surely allow another area of the roster to rot, while he merrily invests in his own personal BPA - Harrell, Nelson, whoever. Certainly no impact can be expected from those guys.

Injuries are a factor of course, but TT assembles the roster, and the roster is clearly underpowered.

[pbmax]

MM - but not because of play calling, team discipline, etc. I think he may have to re-evaluate his training camp approach. The team has not been ready to play in most aspects.

If there was one major area, it could be fixed quickly and the team would not have lost three in a row. The defense is playing poorly, terrible against the run, no pressure from the D-line, the linebackers have not made game-significant plays, and there has been admitted miscommunication in the backfield leading to big plays. The O-line has not pass blocked well, both tackles have started poorly in both run and pass blocking, the RBs, FBs and line share the blame in the running game, the TEs and WRs have missed blocks that would have made big differences on specific plays. While the passing game (qb and receivers) has been fairly good, there has been a higher than expected number of dropped passes. Even special teams, which should be a strength, have shown poor play (preparation?) on coverage.

Throw in all the penalties, and you have a team that was not ready to start the season. Inadequate training camp buildup to the season, perhaps.

Add the uncontrollable factor of some key injuries and you have a 3 game skid.

Injuries happen. The rest can be fixed, but it may take a few weeks.

Dern Patler. You are right & all, but shit, how do we fix a mess like that?

That is one depressing laundry list
Even if you just shore up two, penalties and pass/run blocking, then many things immediately look up. I think Patler has the right answer about penalties and I hope the same approach works for the O Line's blocking.

I believe I have seen signs of life for the running game. If we can stop needing to max protect, our drives will start to get a lot longer, which will save the defense some energy. If we stop holding and facing 3rd and 14, that would be helpful as well.

And I refuse to say what might help our run defense because if I name it, there's a good chance it won't happen. Sometime after week 6. A guy's gotta have hope.

And one other thing; timing in the passing game. The more the WRs work with Rodgers in games, the fewer drops I expect to see. Jennings and Jones have had a history with drops, although not as bad as the preseason and first few games indicated. To some degree, I think that is the WR getting used to the timing of the throw and knowing when they can cheat and get an early look at the defense. With experience, they will learn when they can and cannot do this while Rodgers is throwing. Eventually, familiarity will cause less drops.

[Fritz]

I cannot believe you Rats got through two whole pages of "what's the biggest problem" or "who's to blame" without mentioning the one name responsible for all things bad in Packerland:

Kurt Shottenheimer.

Oh ye of little faith, how quickly we forget! Two years ago he was being kicked to the curb every other thread, and now no one can even dredge up a single vote for the guy?

He's dropped off the "favorite whipping boy" list faster than Dubya got on it.

Fire Shottenheimer, and all will be fixed. The secondary. The d-line. The o-line. The financial crisis.

[Jimx29]

**No doubt in my mind it's TT and his huge ego. He's upset the apple cart (13-3 and one interception from the super bowl to a current 2-3 and falling fast) and it's not going to right itself for quite some time.





**also known as "karmas' a bitch"

[HarveyWallbangers]

Inadequate training camp buildup to the season, perhaps.

I keep thinking about the difference between this year and last year. It's not necessarily how the training camp is structured. It's two things: 1) we had considerably more nagging injuries than usual in the preseason, 2) the media circus surrounding the Favre situation. I wonder if those two things, more than anything, affected training camp preparation, both mentally and physically.

[Patler]

Inadequate training camp buildup to the season, perhaps.

I keep thinking about the difference between this year and last year. It's not necessarily how the training camp is structured. It's two things: 1) we had considerably more nagging injuries than usual in the preseason, 2) the media circus surrounding the Favre situation. I wonder if those two things, more than anything, affected training camp preparation, both mentally and physically.

Those two factors didn't help matters, I'm sure, but I don't think the team started well last year either. They had too many penalties early, a very poor running attack, had given up 9 sacks and weren't all that great on defense after 5 games. They were lucky to have been given the game by Philadelphia and to catch San Diego and the Giants with their heads in the clouds. Peterson ran all over the Packers, then inexplicably wasn't given the ball in the second half (thank-you coach Childress!) The Packers were lucky to be 4-1, I thought. It was a few weeks after that when they seemed to become a good team, not just a fortunate one.

[SnakeLH2006]

I'd take a waterboy salary to play DT right now...Yes by NFL standards I'm undersized, at 6'6" 230, but won games in high school and college as a QB and love to smoke a fool. Our DT is shameless.