Notes: Harrell expected to provide relief at DT

[packers11]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=804256

[packers11]

I'm confused. I thought they said he wouldn't be ready until after week 6... Is he playing vs Seattle?

[Pacopete4]

i dont know about being ready after week 6 but i thought he wasnt eligible until after the bye week..

[Harlan Huckleby]

forget Harrell, that article says JEremy Thompson may be the starter at defensive end this week.

I dare anybody to sya the sky is not falling.

[Pacopete4]

forget Harrell, that article says JEremy Thompson may be the starter at defensive end this week.

I dare anybody to sya the sky is not falling.




As much as KGB has been a non factor I would have thought they'd give him a chance to play instead of handing it to Taco Wallace, I mean Jeremy Thompson

[packers11]

forget Harrell, that article says JEremy Thompson may be the starter at defensive end this week.

I dare anybody to sya the sky is not falling.




As much as KGB has been a non factor I would have thought they'd give him a chance to play instead of handing it to Taco Wallace, I mean Jeremy Thompson

haha your sucha jackass... Jeremy Thompson was a fourth round pick... Taco Wallace was a street Free Agent...

[Pacopete4]

forget Harrell, that article says JEremy Thompson may be the starter at defensive end this week.

I dare anybody to sya the sky is not falling.




As much as KGB has been a non factor I would have thought they'd give him a chance to play instead of handing it to Taco Wallace, I mean Jeremy Thompson

haha your sucha jackass... Jeremy Thompson was a fourth round pick... Taco Wallace was a street Free Agent...



:lol: ooooh I was just joking around... I'll give him a chance, I mean hey.. it cant get any worse on the Dline.... or can it?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/akamainevent66/JH-2.jpg

[Gunakor]

Colin Cole is currently the lone healthy backup at DT. Getting Harrell back will if nothing else help give these guys a breather so they have more left in the tank late in games. Who knows, he might even come out and suprise us by playing at a level TT had hoped when drafting him in the first round. Then we'd have 2 solid starting DT's.

Thompson starting at DE is a bit worrisome though.

[Tony Oday]

Yeah Thompson is WAY past his playing days he should stick to finding us some replacement DTs not try to help out himself! :)

[Pacopete4]

Yeah Thompson is WAY past his playing days he should stick to finding us some replacement DTs not try to help out himself! :)


not only that but he only started 8 of his 146 games thus far.. I'm not sure he's starter material

[mraynrand]

The article says:

"J____ H_____, w__ is e____le to p__ next we__, may n_t view himself as a po__ntial li___or of the Green Bay Packers' defensive ____es, but Ryan Pi___tt does."

Does anyone agree with this?


(I removed the copywrited material so the JS won't sue Packerrats)

[Bossman641]

forget Harrell, that article says JEremy Thompson may be the starter at defensive end this week.

I dare anybody to sya the sky is not falling.

This is ridiculous. 3rd string safety. 3rd string DE (or is he 4th, Hunter?)

All the good luck from last year has ran out.

[Pacopete4]

The article says:

"J____ H_____, w__ is e____le to p__ next we__, may n_t view himself as a po__ntial li___or of the Green Bay Packers' defensive ____es, but Ryan Pi___tt does."

Does anyone agree with this?


(I removed the copywrited material so the JS won't sue Packerrats)


haha good stuff raynard.... but its more likely that he still remains a bust... we reached and got burned... oh well, we never really hit on first round picks anyways it seems..


and dont feed me the Hawk crap, he is NOT an elite player..

[Pacopete4]

forget Harrell, that article says JEremy Thompson may be the starter at defensive end this week.

I dare anybody to sya the sky is not falling.

This is ridiculous. 3rd string safety. 3rd string DE (or is he 4th, Hunter?)

All the good luck from last year has ran out.


I think Rouse practice today? not sure on that so that'd help

but I think ur right, we got lucky last year in a ton of games which is why that 13-3 record happened... we were fooled, specially when we got to match up with Seattle in the first game instead of NY or DAL... cuz we woulda got beat by either in the first game

[retailguy]

All the good luck from last year has ran out.

Nah..... It didn't run out, it moved to New York. :wink: :oops: :D

[Pacopete4]

All the good luck from last year has ran out.

Nah..... It didn't run out, it moved to New York. :wink: :oops: :D


u will be tared and feathered for a comment like that... shame on u! :lol:

[Tyrone Bigguns]

forget Harrell, that article says JEremy Thompson may be the starter at defensive end this week.

I dare anybody to sya the sky is not falling.

The sky already has fallen.

[mraynrand]

All the good luck from last year has ran out.

Nah..... It didn't run out, it moved to New York. :wink: :oops: :D

I assumed you were talking about the Giants. thinking about the different directions the two teams have taken after the NFCCG.

[falco]

All the good luck from last year has ran out.

Nah..... It didn't run out, it moved to New York. :wink: :oops: :D

I assumed you were talking about the Giants. thinking about the different directions the two teams have taken after the NFCCG.

that's actually what i assumed too, until I saw how happy paco got when he read it

[Pacopete4]

All the good luck from last year has ran out.

Nah..... It didn't run out, it moved to New York. :wink: :oops: :D

I assumed you were talking about the Giants. thinking about the different directions the two teams have taken after the NFCCG.

that's actually what i assumed too, until I saw how happy paco got when he read it



happy? naw... always want the packers to win every game there is..

but find it kinda funny? absolutely.. its like the guy is one big giant rabbits foot

[falco]

happy? naw... always want the packers to win every game there is..

but find it kinda funny? absolutely.. its like the guy is one big giant rabbits foot

except of course in the playoffs over the last 10 years :roll:

[Pacopete4]

happy? naw... always want the packers to win every game there is..

but find it kinda funny? absolutely.. its like the guy is one big giant rabbits foot

except of course in the playoffs over the last 10 years :roll:


ya its too bad luck dont win superbowls, but great teams do... its just too bad Green Bay was only able to surround Brett with a couple of Great teams, last year not being one of them... but oh well, I think he's had a pretty good career :wink:

[Tony Oday]

Well last year was supposed to be the year Favre was going to carry his team to the Super Bowl...The other years was on the other side of the line.

[Rastak]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/akamainevent66/JH-2.jpg


Is that the famous "Davenport drill"?

[Carolina_Packer]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/akamainevent66/JH-2.jpg


Is that the famous "Davenport drill"?

All they're missing is the clothes hamper.

[SnakeLH2006]

Direct reply to topic: What's JH gonna do, get the other DL dudes water or something? BUST....

[Gunakor]

Direct reply to topic: What's JH gonna do, get the other DL dudes water or something? BUST....

We haven't seen him play when healthy, so we can't call him a bust. He's reportedly healthy now, so lets see what the kid can do first before labelling him a bust. Even if he never plays up to his first round potential, he at the very least adds another body to the rotation of DT's so our more productive guys aren't as tired from being on the field for every defensive snap.

You know, as thin as we are at DT right now, I'm suprised that anyone is talking down the addition of Harrell to the rotation...

[Pacopete4]

Direct reply to topic: What's JH gonna do, get the other DL dudes water or something? BUST....

We haven't seen him play when healthy, so we can't call him a bust. He's reportedly healthy now, so lets see what the kid can do first before labelling him a bust. Even if he never plays up to his first round potential, he at the very least adds another body to the rotation of DT's so our more productive guys aren't as tired from being on the field for every defensive snap.

You know, as thin as we are at DT right now, I'm suprised that anyone is talking down the addition of Harrell to the rotation... maybe its cuz he is a waste of money, injury prone, lazy, fatass.. dried up stinky dick licker....

[mraynrand]

Direct reply to topic: What's JH gonna do, get the other DL dudes water or something? BUST....

We haven't seen him play when healthy, so we can't call him a bust. He's reportedly healthy now, so lets see what the kid can do first before labelling him a bust. Even if he never plays up to his first round potential, he at the very least adds another body to the rotation of DT's so our more productive guys aren't as tired from being on the field for every defensive snap.

You know, as thin as we are at DT right now, I'm suprised that anyone is talking down the addition of Harrell to the rotation...

If he's healthy, he's got to be better than Cole.

[Tony Oday]

Direct reply to topic: What's JH gonna do, get the other DL dudes water or something? BUST....

We haven't seen him play when healthy, so we can't call him a bust. He's reportedly healthy now, so lets see what the kid can do first before labelling him a bust. Even if he never plays up to his first round potential, he at the very least adds another body to the rotation of DT's so our more productive guys aren't as tired from being on the field for every defensive snap.

You know, as thin as we are at DT right now, I'm suprised that anyone is talking down the addition of Harrell to the rotation... maybe its cuz he is a waste of money, injury prone, lazy, fatass.. dried up stinky dick licker....

Paco did he kick you out again?

[Gunakor]

Direct reply to topic: What's JH gonna do, get the other DL dudes water or something? BUST....

We haven't seen him play when healthy, so we can't call him a bust. He's reportedly healthy now, so lets see what the kid can do first before labelling him a bust. Even if he never plays up to his first round potential, he at the very least adds another body to the rotation of DT's so our more productive guys aren't as tired from being on the field for every defensive snap.

You know, as thin as we are at DT right now, I'm suprised that anyone is talking down the addition of Harrell to the rotation... maybe its cuz he is a waste of money, injury prone, lazy, fatass.. dried up stinky dick licker....

They say A-Rod is injury prone, does that make him a waste of money? I mean, he looked like complete horseshit up until the point in his career that Harrell is at too. Give me one reason this guy is a lost cause.

Last year he didn't play much. But when he did he looked alright. He looked like a rookie, but so do 95% of all other rookies. You are angry, I get that. But give the kid at least 3 years because all rookies deserve that. Nick Collins didn't come of age until this year, and he's looking okay. Aaron Rodgers didn't look like anything special until his 3rd year either. Again, you are expecting WAY too much of our young players. Let them develop, let them get healthy, give them a chance to succeed before labelling them a bust.

[Pugger]

The guy hasn't shown us much so who knows if he is a bust. A disappointment yes - only cuz he can't stay on the field. I'm gonna go with the glass half full and see if he can contribute this season. If not, then I'll join the choir...

[MJZiggy]

Tony Mandarich was a bust. Justin Harrell is not even a little leak in the bubble compared to him. Let's let him get back into the rotation for a bit and see what he can do before we go branding him. As I recall, he wasn't so horrible at the end of last season.

[Gunakor]

Mandarich was a bust for us, but developed into a respectable OL for the Colts and had a fairly long NFL career. He's considered a bust by us Packer fans because of where he was drafted and who was drafted behind him (something I'll NEVER get over as long as I live). But in NFL terms, he was not a bust.

[Fritz]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/akamainevent66/JH-2.jpg


Is that the famous "Davenport drill"?

All they're missing is the clothes hamper.

If only I knew how to photoshop...

[mraynrand]

Ask and ye shall receive:
http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/harreldump.jpg?t=1223743911

[DonHutson]

Harrell providing relief at DT?

Hopefully it's not comic relief.

[Harlan Huckleby]

DH got better last year. He is a big guy who is athletic.

you wonder where he is at without any training camp, it will take a month for him to get back to where he was.

[DonHutson]

DH got better last year. He is a big guy who is athletic.

I presume you mean JH, but your Freudian slip is certainly understandable.


it will take a month for him to get back to where he was

So by the time the season is more than half over, he'll be back to being almost as good as Colin Cole? Awesome. I'll just have to try to control my anticipation until then.

Seriously, yeah I hope he turns into a player. But until I see some signs that HE wants to be a player, I'm not going to get too excited.

[Fritz]

DH got better last year. He is a big guy who is athletic.

I presume you mean JH, but your Freudian slip is certainly understandable.


it will take a month for him to get back to where he was

So by the time the season is more than half over, he'll be back to being almost as good as Colin Cole? Awesome. I'll just have to try to control my anticipation until then.

Seriously, yeah I hope he turns into a player. But until I see some signs that HE wants to be a player, I'm not going to get too excited.

Settle down, Donny Boy. You're getting a little crazy here with all your excitement.

And thank you - I think - mraynrand.

[DonHutson]

Settle down, Donny Boy. You're getting a little crazy here with all your excitement.


Fritz, I've got the Justin Harrell Fever and I don't want the cure.

:roll:

I wish there was a smiley face that yawned.

[Pugger]

At this point we all better hope JH can contribute something, if only get in the rotation and give the other guys a breather so they have something left in the tank in the second half of games...

[DonHutson]

Mandarich was a bust for us, but developed into a respectable OL for the Colts and had a fairly long NFL career. He's considered a bust by us Packer fans because of where he was drafted and who was drafted behind him (something I'll NEVER get over as long as I live). But in NFL terms, he was not a bust.

After a google search on 'NFL Draft bust' I get the following results:

http://football.about.com/od/nfldrafthistory/tp/topdraftbusts.htm

#2 all-time bust after Ryan Leaf

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/69562/20_biggest_nfl_draft_busts_of_alltime.html

#6 all-time in a list that favors QB's

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24280913/?pg=10#spt_biggestNFLDraftbusts

Second biggest bust among #2 overall picks, after Ryan Leaf

http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/draft_busts.htm

Starting OT on the all-bust team

http://www.tiricosuave.com/2008/06/03/top-10-nfl-draft-busts/

#3 after Leaf and Andre Ware, which I dispute because nobody besides the Lions really expected Ware to be an NFL QB

That's just a small sample. Just random opinions? Yes. But basically everyone who tackled the issue mentioned Mandarich prominently. And these were not Packer-centric lists, but lists that took a national perspective.

Terrell Buckley is a Packer bust that eeked out a passable NFL career. Mandarich is a bust by any standard.

And despite my current apathy for Harrell, he shouldn't be called a bust yet. He has time to turn it around. However, I'm starting to get a Jamal Reynolds vibe from the guy, like he's ambivalent about being a football player. I hope I'm wrong, but that's not a good sign.

[Harlan Huckleby]

DH got better last year. He is a big guy who is athletic.

I presume you mean JH, but your Freudian slip is certainly understandable.

I'm not sure who DH is - Don Hutson? Maybe I was thinking of DW, Donnell Washington

[Fritz]

Designated hitter?

[SnakeLH2006]

[quote=Gunakor]Terrell Buckley is a Packer bust that eeked out a passable NFL career. Mandarich is a bust by any standard.

And despite my current apathy for Harrell, he shouldn't be called a bust yet. He has time to turn it around. However, I'm starting to get a Jamal Reynolds vibe from the guy, like he's ambivalent about being a football player. I hope I'm wrong, but that's not a good sign.

I remember Buckley being drafted watching him at FSU (always been a HUGE FSU fan esp. in the 90's) but he eked out a pretty solid career kind of similar to Desmond Howard (huge expectations, fizzled early, really made some huge plays later and had a solid career). TBuck was definitely not a bust. Mandarich was because he couldn't make any plays as a Packer and was a stopgap at best on Oline with Infante with the Colts (he never flashed his college talent once in the pro's.)

As far as the Jamal Reynolds comparison, I too, am getting the same exact vibes, as it looks thus far as history is repeating itself with JH.

[mission]

[quote=Gunakor]Terrell Buckley is a Packer bust that eeked out a passable NFL career. Mandarich is a bust by any standard.

And despite my current apathy for Harrell, he shouldn't be called a bust yet. He has time to turn it around. However, I'm starting to get a Jamal Reynolds vibe from the guy, like he's ambivalent about being a football player. I hope I'm wrong, but that's not a good sign.

I remember Buckley being drafted watching him at FSU (always been a HUGE FSU fan esp. in the 90's) but he eked out a pretty solid career kind of similar to Desmond Howard (huge expectations, fizzled early, really made some huge plays later and had a solid career). TBuck was definitely not a bust. Mandarich was because he couldn't make any plays as a Packer and was a stopgap at best on Oline with Infante with the Colts (he never flashed his college talent once in the pro's.)

As far as the Jamal Reynolds comparison, I too, am getting the same exact vibes, as it looks thus far as history is repeating itself with JH.

Jamal Reynolds never ever ever looked like an NFL football player.. JH has made a couple plays when healthy. At least enough to make me scratch my beard ...

[SnakeLH2006]

[quote=Gunakor]Terrell Buckley is a Packer bust that eeked out a passable NFL career. Mandarich is a bust by any standard.

And despite my current apathy for Harrell, he shouldn't be called a bust yet. He has time to turn it around. However, I'm starting to get a Jamal Reynolds vibe from the guy, like he's ambivalent about being a football player. I hope I'm wrong, but that's not a good sign.

I remember Buckley being drafted watching him at FSU (always been a HUGE FSU fan esp. in the 90's) but he eked out a pretty solid career kind of similar to Desmond Howard (huge expectations, fizzled early, really made some huge plays later and had a solid career). TBuck was definitely not a bust. Mandarich was because he couldn't make any plays as a Packer and was a stopgap at best on Oline with Infante with the Colts (he never flashed his college talent once in the pro's.)

As far as the Jamal Reynolds comparison, I too, am getting the same exact vibes, as it looks thus far as history is repeating itself with JH.

Jamal Reynolds never ever ever looked like an NFL football player.. JH has made a couple plays when healthy. At least enough to make me scratch my beard ...

Hmm...last I checked I saw EVERY Packer game since 92. What game did I miss where JH ONCE looked like an average player? Just cuz your beard itches doesn't mean you have football knowledge....maybe nightclub knowledge if yo shit itches...but I could start a thread on that too as my shit don't itch but have many meaningful conversations to give you some advice on that. Just fucking with ya, but how the fuck can you say JH has done NEthing?

[mission]

Im really just talkin about the few times ive SEEN him on the field... he made a couple plays in the backfield, scored a preseason touchdown, etc... when i say a few times lookin decent, i really mean a FEW times... preseason not withstanding.

[SnakeLH2006]

Im really just talkin about the few times ive SEEN him on the field... he made a couple plays in the backfield, scored a preseason touchdown, etc... when i say a few times lookin decent, i really mean a FEW times... preseason not withstanding.

JH is meaningless. It's our scheme that is shitty. To expect much out of a guy that shows up out of shape and shows no passion is futile. But, it is fun to see the guy ("who used to run these forums late nite") show up late nite to trade posts. JH sux and has shown nothing (regardless of his draft status).

[mission]

Im not trying to make an argument for JH under any circumstance besides he's already given us more than Reynolds ever did from what I remember ... not that that means more than a thumb in the ass on a cold winter night.

[SnakeLH2006]

Im not trying to make an argument for JH under any circumstance besides he's already given us more than Reynolds ever did from what I remember ... not that that means more than a thumb in the ass on a cold winter night.

Haahaha...I really laughed at your end quote...It was good. But I don't remember JH doing any more than JR.

[Guiness]

Mandarich always gets a really bad rap because of the hype that surrounded him. I remember many at the time saying Dallas was stupid taking Aikman over him, and that if they didn't need a QB so badly they wouldn't even consider it. A lot of other guys went high, and didn't do anything, but just slipped away. A guy like Emtmen. Maybe a Curtis Enis.

Another guy who gets slammed unnecessarily, because he actually played well is Mamula.

[Patler]

Mandarich always gets a really bad rap because of the hype that surrounded him. I remember many at the time saying Dallas was stupid taking Aikman over him, and that if they didn't need a QB so badly they wouldn't even consider it. A lot of other guys went high, and didn't do anything, but just slipped away. A guy like Emtmen. Maybe a Curtis Enis.

Another guy who gets slammed unnecessarily, because he actually played well is Mamula.

I remember an article a while ago about "all-time draft busts" that, of course had Mandarich near the top. They talked to several anonymous execs of other teams. One said they all felt bad for the Packers, the way it turned out, because so many of them wanted Mandarich so badly. He said many had tried to trade up to get him and the only teams who didn't want him were the few who had young, all-pro LTs. He said they all believed Mandarich was as certain to be a star as anyone who had come along in many years. He said they all figured you could draft him, put him at tackle on Day 1 and forget about the position for the next 10 years.

[Rastak]

Similar to the Raiders and Robert Gallery.....


http://www.examiner.com/x-514-Oakland-Raiders-Examiner~topic14874-Robert-Gallery

[bobblehead]

Mandarich always gets a really bad rap because of the hype that surrounded him. I remember many at the time saying Dallas was stupid taking Aikman over him, and that if they didn't need a QB so badly they wouldn't even consider it. A lot of other guys went high, and didn't do anything, but just slipped away. A guy like Emtmen. Maybe a Curtis Enis.

Another guy who gets slammed unnecessarily, because he actually played well is Mamula.

I remember an article a while ago about "all-time draft busts" that, of course had Mandarich near the top. They talked to several anonymous execs of other teams. One said they all felt bad for the Packers, the way it turned out, because so many of them wanted Mandarich so badly. He said many had tried to trade up to get him and the only teams who didn't want him were the few who had young, all-pro LTs. He said they all believed Mandarich was as certain to be a star as anyone who had come along in many years. He said they all figured you could draft him, put him at tackle on Day 1 and forget about the position for the next 10 years.

This shows 2 things...the NFL draft is somewhat of a crapshoot. and you read a similar article to the one I read on vinny testaverde (who was plugged in for the next 20 years)

[Harlan Huckleby]

He said they all believed Mandarich was as certain to be a star as anyone who had come along in many years. He said they all figured you could draft him, put him at tackle on Day 1 and forget about the position for the next 10 years.

Mandarich said recently that he took massive amounts of steroids in college, and the last time he took a steroid was shortly after the NFL draft. (I heard this second hand from Tarek Saleh on his radio show.)

It seems to me that Mandarich committed a massive fraud. And then he denied ever taking steroids for about 10 years.

I suppose screwing the NFL is not like cheating a person, but it still seems pretty crummy.

[DonHutson]

It seems to me that Mandarich committed a massive fraud. And then he denied ever taking steroids for about 10 years.

I suppose screwing the NFL is not like cheating a person, but it still seems pretty crummy.

I agree. But I also blame the Packers for not doing their homework. There were rumors even at the time that Mandarich was the place to go for steroids at Michigan State. It shouldn't have taken too much digging to find enough red flags to pass on him.

But the fact that other teams were interested as well exonerates the Pack to some extent. I guess teams typically didn't investigate as thoroughly then as they do now. Cases like Tony are why every team (except the Bengals) talks to everybody a player has ever met in this day and age.

[Gunakor]

What is a bust? Mandarich played 9 NFL seasons. I just can't call any player who is good enough to last 9 seasons in the NFL a bust. Regardless of where he was drafted. That's twice the average NFL career. I'd call him a disappointment, but seeing as how he forged a fairly lengthy career in the pros I can't call him a complete bust. I think people generally call him one of the biggest busts in NFL history simply because of who was drafted immediately after him, and don't even realize he played as long as he did. IMO a 9 year player isn't a bust.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Mandarach was a washout after a few years in the NFL, he stuck that long just based on potential and draft position. Then he left the NFL entirely for a couple years. Returned and became an OK starter for several seasons.

Probably he needed the years off to train.

Saying that he had a 9-year career is a little misleading. Maybe you are right that he wasn't a bust, in that he came back successfully. Certainly he was a huge bust in his first NFL stint.

[Zool]

Career stats
Games played 86
Games started 47

[Gunakor]

Mandarach was a washout after a few years in the NFL, he stuck that long just based on potential and draft position. Then he left the NFL entirely for a couple years. Returned and became an OK starter for several seasons.

Probably he needed the years off to train.

Saying that he had a 9-year career is a little misleading. Maybe you are right that he wasn't a bust, in that he came back successfully. Certainly he was a huge bust in his first NFL stint.

I can agree with you there. He was certainly a bust for the Packers. I'm not going to dispute that one at all. Just sayin he's not Jamal Reynolds or something like that - he actually did make a career for himself and thus is not an overall bust IMO.

[Patler]

Mandarich said recently that he took massive amounts of steroids in college, and the last time he took a steroid was shortly after the NFL draft. (I heard this second hand from Tarek Saleh on his radio show.)

It seems to me that Mandarich committed a massive fraud. And then he denied ever taking steroids for about 10 years.

I suppose screwing the NFL is not like cheating a person, but it still seems pretty crummy.

I believe he also admitted to cheating on the pre-draft urine test, using "clean" urine from someone else. If you or I did that or anything similar, we would be guilty of fraud. Yet, in sports, it seems like whatever you can get away with is OK.

[cheesner]

What is a bust? Mandarich played 9 NFL seasons. I just can't call any player who is good enough to last 9 seasons in the NFL a bust. Regardless of where he was drafted. That's twice the average NFL career. I'd call him a disappointment, but seeing as how he forged a fairly lengthy career in the pros I can't call him a complete bust. I think people generally call him one of the biggest busts in NFL history simply because of who was drafted immediately after him, and don't even realize he played as long as he did. IMO a 9 year player isn't a bust.
He played from 89-92 as a Packer and from 96-98 as a colt, or 7 seasons.

He was on a roster for 86 games but only played in 47.

That would be great for a 5th round draft choice, but when you come in with the expectations people had for this guy, and in 7 years you develop into a marginal player, that is a bust. He was a monster in college, the only college player to ever make the all-Madden team. When the Pack drafted him the ESPN announcer said he was destined for Canton. There has not been a player with as much hype since Mandarich, so I think people not following the draft back then won't understand.

[Tony Oday]

We should be able to get the signing bonus back from him and his contract because he is a liar :)

[Gunakor]

What is a bust? Mandarich played 9 NFL seasons. I just can't call any player who is good enough to last 9 seasons in the NFL a bust. Regardless of where he was drafted. That's twice the average NFL career. I'd call him a disappointment, but seeing as how he forged a fairly lengthy career in the pros I can't call him a complete bust. I think people generally call him one of the biggest busts in NFL history simply because of who was drafted immediately after him, and don't even realize he played as long as he did. IMO a 9 year player isn't a bust.
He played from 89-92 as a Packer and from 96-98 as a colt, or 7 seasons.

He was on a roster for 86 games but only played in 47.

That would be great for a 5th round draft choice, but when you come in with the expectations people had for this guy, and in 7 years you develop into a marginal player, that is a bust. He was a monster in college, the only college player to ever make the all-Madden team. When the Pack drafted him the ESPN announcer said he was destined for Canton. There has not been a player with as much hype since Mandarich, so I think people not following the draft back then won't understand.

So your definition of a bust is one who does not live up to the hype. That is where we differ. If you do not live up to the hype but still manage to forge even a marginal career in the NFL then I'd call you a disappointment. If you do not make it at all, even as a marginal player, then and only then would I call you a bust. Besides, as I recall he wasn't a marginal player at Indy, rather he was an average player at Indy. Marginal would be Tony Moll at RG for the Packers, and that's not what Madarich looked like with the Colts.

[Pugger]

yes, Mandarich was a disappointment but he did have a decent career. I guess the higher you're picked determines if you are a 'bust' or not. The Pack has had a few of these, like other teams have had: A. Carroll, J. Reynolds, Rich Campbell come to mind.

[Gunakor]

yes, Mandarich was a disappointment but he did have a decent career. I guess the higher you're picked determines if you are a 'bust' or not. The Pack has had a few of these, like other teams have had: A. Carroll, J. Reynolds, Rich Campbell come to mind.


Carroll, like Mandarich, was a bust for the Packers. But, like Mandarich, is doing an average job in another uniform and thus can't be called a complete bust either. Jamal Reynolds is my definition of a bust. Didn't cut it with the Packers, didn't cut it with anyone else, and did not last in the NFL.

[cheesner]

yes, Mandarich was a disappointment but he did have a decent career. I guess the higher you're picked determines if you are a 'bust' or not. The Pack has had a few of these, like other teams have had: A. Carroll, J. Reynolds, Rich Campbell come to mind.


Carroll, like Mandarich, was a bust for the Packers. But, like Mandarich, is doing an average job in another uniform and thus can't be called a complete bust either. Jamal Reynolds is my definition of a bust. Didn't cut it with the Packers, didn't cut it with anyone else, and did not last in the NFL.

Semantics, I suppose. To me a FA pick up who gets cut a few years, keeps trying and then makes it with the Colts as an Average player for 3 season is a success. A guy coming in who is supposed to be a dominant force and the best player to enter the NFL since John Elway, and then cannot even start for the worst team in the NFL - that is a bust - even if he tries a comeback after a few years and is an average player. 2 players, identical careers and one is a bust and one is a success.

Regardless, I would never call Mandarich's career as 'decent'.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Carroll, like Mandarich, was a bust for the Packers. But, like Mandarich, is doing an average job in another uniform and thus can't be called a complete bust either.

Carroll is a good comparison.

[DonHutson]

Gunakor, you make a valid defense for your argument, but I guess I do have a different definition of bust. To me it does come down to a differential between expectations and production.

The hype surrounding Mandarich does make him a bigger bust, in the sense that the hype was due to very high expectations. The quality of the players taken after him contribute to his bust status as well, in my opinion. It's not a real big surprise that Barry Sanders ended up in the Hall of Fame. There are no sure things, but Sanders was as electric a RB as I've seen in college football. To pass on a player like Sanders just points to how dominant Mandarich was supposed to be. The same with Dieon Sanders and Derrick Thomas.

Now some of the hype was also due to Mandarich's personality. Everybody likes to see a loudmouth asshole like him fall on his face. I'm sure that's a big part of the reason that he's at the top of the bust lists with the likes of Ryan Leaf and Brian Bosworth while some less flamboyant players get a pass. People like to see these guys fail, it makes good reading, they get on the lists. That part of the equation probably isn't fair, but that's only part of it.

The fact that so much of those high expectations were built on, as Harlan puts it, a fraudulent foundation adds to his bust status as well, in my opinion. He built up those expectations through illegal means, so let his rep take the hit when he had to stop taking steroids and he couldn't deliver as a player.

The way I see it, he was touted as a once in a lifetime OL prospect, the kind you pass on a once in a generation RB, CB, or pass rushing LB for without giving it a second thought. A couple of marginal years with some pretty crappy Colts teams in no way comes anywhere near the expectations laid out for him. Therefore he is a colossal bust.

I don't really see the Carroll situation as anything close to this one. Carroll was picked at the end of the first round. Most scouts didn't have him ranked that high. He really should've been a second or third rounder. I would call Carroll a bust too, but a much lesser one because the expectations for him were far less extravagent.

[cheesner]

Gunakor, you make a valid defense for your argument, but I guess I do have a different definition of bust. To me it does come down to a differential between expectations and production.

The hype surrounding Mandarich does make him a bigger bust, in the sense that the hype was due to very high expectations. The quality of the players taken after him contribute to his bust status as well, in my opinion. It's not a real big surprise that Barry Sanders ended up in the Hall of Fame. There are no sure things, but Sanders was as electric a RB as I've seen in college football. To pass on a player like Sanders just points to how dominant Mandarich was supposed to be. The same with Dieon Sanders and Derrick Thomas.

Now some of the hype was also due to Mandarich's personality. Everybody likes to see a loudmouth asshole like him fall on his face. I'm sure that's a big part of the reason that he's at the top of the bust lists with the likes of Ryan Leaf and Brian Bosworth while some less flamboyant players get a pass. People like to see these guys fail, it makes good reading, they get on the lists. That part of the equation probably isn't fair, but that's only part of it.

The fact that so much of those high expectations were built on, as Harlan puts it, a fraudulent foundation adds to his bust status as well, in my opinion. He built up those expectations through illegal means, so let his rep take the hit when he had to stop taking steroids and he couldn't deliver as a player.

The way I see it, he was touted as a once in a lifetime OL prospect, the kind you pass on a once in a generation RB, CB, or pass rushing LB for without giving it a second thought. A couple of marginal years with some pretty crappy Colts teams in no way comes anywhere near the expectations laid out for him. Therefore he is a colossal bust.

I don't really see the Carroll situation as anything close to this one. Carroll was picked at the end of the first round. Most scouts didn't have him ranked that high. He really should've been a second or third rounder. I would call Carroll a bust too, but a much lesser one because the expectations for him were far less extravagent.
Very well written. I think you really had to live through the Mandarich era to understand it. He was expected to revolutionize the way the game was played. They created the term 'pancake' block for him because every game he would destroy several players. I remember they would show his highlights weekly as a part of ESPN. Have you ever seen OL highlights as a regular staple of any sports show?

[bobblehead]

Hype has everything to do with the bust status. How is mandarich more of a bust than these #1 and #2 overall picks?

Kijana Carter, Blair Thomas, Steve emtman, Akili Smith.

Those are off the top of my head, but the list could go on and on. The NFL draft is a tough business, but GM's are starting to figure that out. Most have figured out which positions you "gamble" with in the first round and which you leave alone. I like TT's approach....in 4 drafts he:

1) took a talented QB that slipped
2) took a completed product (although LB isn't usually a top 5 position)
3) took a massive human being (who hasn't panned out yet)
4) traded it cuz no one stood out.

He hasn't taken end of the round RB's or LB's. He hasn't reached for a player who he knows might very well flop. He aquires picks, creates competition and figures out who is a hard worker and a player before they have to shell out huge money. In the middle rounds he takes a shot here and there at guys with huge upside who weren't given the right shot in college (blackman type). I like it so far.

[retailguy]

How is mandarich more of a bust than these #1 and #2 overall picks?

Kijana Carter, Blair Thomas, Steve emtman, Akili Smith.



Akili Smith was the 3rd pick, not one or two. doesnt' alter your point but still... Smith was clearly a bust, however Carter and Emtman were busts largely due to injuries. Carter tore his ACL on his 3rd preseason carry, and his speed never returned. Emtman tore up his knee during his rookie year and battled injuries throughout his career. Thomas had a bunch of nagging injuries as I recall but nothing truly major like the other two.

Mandarich was never an "injury" machine, he just wasn't ready to play. He clearly fooled hundreds of people. He had a lengthy contract holdout as a rookie, pumped up a bunch of hype and then didn't perform. He had attitude issues throughout his 4 year packers career, and was just a pain in the ass.

To me, THAT is the difference.

[mraynrand]

Hype has everything to do with the bust status. How is mandarich more of a bust than these #1 and #2 overall picks?

Kijana Carter, Blair Thomas, Steve emtman, Akili Smith.

Those are off the top of my head, but the list could go on and on. The NFL draft is a tough business, but GM's are starting to figure that out. Most have figured out which positions you "gamble" with in the first round and which you leave alone. I like TT's approach....in 4 drafts he:

1) took a talented QB that slipped
2) took a completed product (although LB isn't usually a top 5 position)
3) took a massive human being (who hasn't panned out yet)
4) traded it cuz no one stood out.

He hasn't taken end of the round RB's or LB's. He hasn't reached for a player who he knows might very well flop. He aquires picks, creates competition and figures out who is a hard worker and a player before they have to shell out huge money. In the middle rounds he takes a shot here and there at guys with huge upside who weren't given the right shot in college (blackman type). I like it so far.

And above all else, you find more picks, because in the first three or four rounds, only about a third of all picks become productive starters. You are just going to have 60-70% attrition, maybe a bit less if you really are a good drafter. The more picks you have, the better your shot at a contributor.

[steve823]

Hype has everything to do with the bust status. How is mandarich more of a bust than these #1 and #2 overall picks?

Kijana Carter, Blair Thomas, Steve emtman, Akili Smith.

Those are off the top of my head, but the list could go on and on. The NFL draft is a tough business, but GM's are starting to figure that out. Most have figured out which positions you "gamble" with in the first round and which you leave alone. I like TT's approach....in 4 drafts he:

1) took a talented QB that slipped
2) took a completed product (although LB isn't usually a top 5 position)
3) took a massive human being (who hasn't panned out yet)
4) traded it cuz no one stood out.

He hasn't taken end of the round RB's or LB's. He hasn't reached for a player who he knows might very well flop. He aquires picks, creates competition and figures out who is a hard worker and a player before they have to shell out huge money. In the middle rounds he takes a shot here and there at guys with huge upside who weren't given the right shot in college (blackman type). I like it so far.

Good post..and I agree. While TT may not get the most popular or desirable pick on the board he always comes through with a solid pick. He has a very good drafting method, which if I'm not mistaken he learned from Ron Wolf.

[Guiness]

Mandarich always gets a really bad rap because of the hype that surrounded him. I remember many at the time saying Dallas was stupid taking Aikman over him, and that if they didn't need a QB so badly they wouldn't even consider it. A lot of other guys went high, and didn't do anything, but just slipped away. A guy like Emtmen. Maybe a Curtis Enis.

Another guy who gets slammed unnecessarily, because he actually played well is Mamula.

I remember an article a while ago about "all-time draft busts" that, of course had Mandarich near the top. They talked to several anonymous execs of other teams. One said they all felt bad for the Packers, the way it turned out, because so many of them wanted Mandarich so badly. He said many had tried to trade up to get him and the only teams who didn't want him were the few who had young, all-pro LTs. He said they all believed Mandarich was as certain to be a star as anyone who had come along in many years. He said they all figured you could draft him, put him at tackle on Day 1 and forget about the position for the next 10 years.

Exactly. If GB had even an inkling that he wasn't what he was supposed to be, they could've gotten someone's complete draft for that slot. He didn't just fool the Pack, he fooled the whole NFL. I was too young to follow things closely then, but I dont' recall anything bad said about him at the time. Does anyone else remember ANYONE panning him?

As others have stated, he was also the product of some bad luck, with those drafted after him. If he'd been taken in '91, would he be such a bust?

We've seen some projected LT's go both ways in the past couple of years. Robert Gallery - remember the 'man playing against boys' comments about him? But Joe Thomas plays lights out. Who knows? (Gallery's playing reasonably well now though, isn't he?)

As far as the 'roid thing, that was a different time. I suspect most knew, or if they didn't know, made sure they kept on not 'knowing'.

I'd forgotten about the ESPN highlights of his college pancacke blocks. I wonder if those are hanging around on Youtube?

[steve823]

Mandarich always gets a really bad rap because of the hype that surrounded him. I remember many at the time saying Dallas was stupid taking Aikman over him, and that if they didn't need a QB so badly they wouldn't even consider it. A lot of other guys went high, and didn't do anything, but just slipped away. A guy like Emtmen. Maybe a Curtis Enis.

Another guy who gets slammed unnecessarily, because he actually played well is Mamula.

I remember an article a while ago about "all-time draft busts" that, of course had Mandarich near the top. They talked to several anonymous execs of other teams. One said they all felt bad for the Packers, the way it turned out, because so many of them wanted Mandarich so badly. He said many had tried to trade up to get him and the only teams who didn't want him were the few who had young, all-pro LTs. He said they all believed Mandarich was as certain to be a star as anyone who had come along in many years. He said they all figured you could draft him, put him at tackle on Day 1 and forget about the position for the next 10 years.

Exactly. If GB had even an inkling that he wasn't what he was supposed to be, they could've gotten someone's complete draft for that slot. He didn't just fool the Pack, he fooled the whole NFL. I was too young to follow things closely then, but I dont' recall anything bad said about him at the time. Does anyone else remember ANYONE panning him?

As others have stated, he was also the product of some bad luck, with those drafted after him. If he'd been taken in '91, would he be such a bust?

We've seen some projected LT's go both ways in the past couple of years. Robert Gallery - remember the 'man playing against boys' comments about him? But Joe Thomas plays lights out. Who knows? (Gallery's playing reasonably well now though, isn't he?)

As far as the 'roid thing, that was a different time. I suspect most knew, or if they didn't know, made sure they kept on not 'knowing'.

I'd forgotten about the ESPN highlights of his college pancacke blocks. I wonder if those are hanging around on Youtube?

I like Joe Thomas a lot. Besides the fact that he played for Wisconsin I think hes a good hard working player. Im not really a fan of o-linemen around the league but guys like joe thomas are great players and role models and I would love to see the Pack get a few of him.

[SnakeLH2006]

He said they all believed Mandarich was as certain to be a star as anyone who had come along in many years. He said they all figured you could draft him, put him at tackle on Day 1 and forget about the position for the next 10 years.

Mandarich said recently that he took massive amounts of steroids in college, and the last time he took a steroid was shortly after the NFL draft. (I heard this second hand from Tarek Saleh on his radio show.)

It seems to me that Mandarich committed a massive fraud. And then he denied ever taking steroids for about 10 years.

I suppose screwing the NFL is not like cheating a person, but it still seems pretty crummy.

Sounds like this fool everyone thought would be the next big thing...

http://www.mmafightgirls.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/kimbo-slice.jpg

[Patler]

I was too young to follow things closely then, but I dont' recall anything bad said about him at the time. Does anyone else remember ANYONE panning him?

As others have stated, he was also the product of some bad luck, with those drafted after him. If he'd been taken in '91, would he be such a bust?
...

As far as the 'roid thing, that was a different time. I suspect most knew, or if they didn't know, made sure they kept on not 'knowing'.

I'd forgotten about the ESPN highlights of his college pancacke blocks. I wonder if those are hanging around on Youtube?

Steroids were rumored about Mandarich, but even SI built a case for his family background, workout program, diet, etc. Their cover described him as "The Best Offensive Line Prospect Ever". I found a link to the April '89 article in the SI Vault:

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1068312/index.htm

At 320 pounds at the combine he benched 545, did 39 reps of 225, ran the 40 in 4.65, did a 10'3" standing long jump and a 30" standing vertical jump. He had lineman strength and linebacker speed/quickness. At that time, only Bo Jackson and Herschel Walker had exceeded his combined workout performance on an athletic performance scale used by the NFL.