TT Sniffing around Gonzalez??

[sheepshead]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10122008/sports/giants/gonzalez_interests_big_blue_133258.htm




Gonzalez, 32, has asked the Chiefs to explore trades. The deadline is Tuesday. According to reports, the Giants have offered a sixth-round draft pick, but the Chiefs want a third-rounder. The Packers, Eagles and Bills are also interested but the Giants may be the most interested.

[Pugger]

Is the deadline 3pm today? TT has only 20 minutes to act!!!!! :lol:

[Gunakor]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10122008/sports/giants/gonzalez_interests_big_blue_133258.htm




Gonzalez, 32, has asked the Chiefs to explore trades. The deadline is Tuesday. According to reports, the Giants have offered a sixth-round draft pick, but the Chiefs want a third-rounder. The Packers, Eagles and Bills are also interested but the Giants may be the most interested.

Giants are the most interested yet all they offer is a 6th? Wow. Gonzo's value seems to be much lower than I figured. Go ahead TT, offer a 5th for him if that's all it takes. I'd jump on that one in a heartbeat.

[Tony Oday]

This is a no brainer in my mind...3rd rounder all the way...the way we trade down in the first we will have 10 of them ANYWAY! ;)

God could you imagine the Line up? Jennings, Driver, Gonzo and throw in Jordy!

You have to double Gonzo because a LB cant cover him and a Saftey is too small!

MY GOD our run offense would benefit from this!

[Gunakor]

Is the deadline 3pm today? TT has only 20 minutes to act!!!!! :lol:

3pm Central time, TT has 1 hour and 20 minutes to act.

[Tony Oday]

I think even TT haters would love this move! And Gonzo has 3 good years left...how often does a 3-4 rounder play that long?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ain't going to happen.

[Tony Oday]

Ain't going to happen.

I know but let me enjoy the next hour!

[Gunakor]

Ain't going to happen.

If all it takes is 1 day two draft pick to get him it just might.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Also, I'm not sure what to believe because on ESPN Radio this morning they said the Chiefs were asking for the same deal that the Dolphins got for Jason Taylor. The Dolphins got a 2nd and a 6th for Taylor.

[Chevelle2]

Every Tues KC has a PC at 4pm...its been pushed back......

[red]

this seems like a no-brainer, and a great move

so no way TT will do it

he will never give up anything more then a 6th or 7th rounder

he needs all those picks so he can write them all down on little pieces of paper and spank to them. at least thats my guess

[Gunakor]

this seems like a no-brainer, and a great move

so no way TT will do it

he will never give up anything more then a 6th or 7th rounder

he needs all those picks so he can right them all down on little pieces of paper and spank to them. at least thats my guess

He'd give up a 5th for Gonzo if that's all it took. I wouldn't give up a day 1 pick either, so if the bidding goes that high then I hope TT does NOT pull the trigger.

[Tony Oday]

this seems like a no-brainer, and a great move

so no way TT will do it

he will never give up anything more then a 6th or 7th rounder

he needs all those picks so he can right them all down on little pieces of paper and spank to them. at least thats my guess

He'd give up a 5th for Gonzo if that's all it took. I wouldn't give up a day 1 pick either, so if the bidding goes that high then I hope TT does NOT pull the trigger.

3rd rounder! DO IT! :) hehe

[sheepshead]

I hope TT's on the phone, I'll be pissed if he goes to NY for 5th or 6th.

[Tony Oday]

Chiefs | Gonzalez deal in the works?
Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:35:33 -0700

Adam Schefter, of NFL.com, reports the Kansas City Chiefs have postponed their regular press conference Tuesday, Oct. 14, to 4 p.m. EST, perhaps a sign that the team is waiting to see if they can trade TE Tony Gonzalez. The team is fielding offers and asking for second- and fifth-round draft choices in return for Gonzalez. So far, teams are balking.


Per KFFL.com

[Gunakor]

this seems like a no-brainer, and a great move

so no way TT will do it

he will never give up anything more then a 6th or 7th rounder

he needs all those picks so he can right them all down on little pieces of paper and spank to them. at least thats my guess

He'd give up a 5th for Gonzo if that's all it took. I wouldn't give up a day 1 pick either, so if the bidding goes that high then I hope TT does NOT pull the trigger.

3rd rounder! DO IT! :) hehe

No. Day one picks should be used on guys who have yet to reach thier prime, not guys who are well past it.

[cheesner]

why do people get their hopes up?

TT won't do this, but if he can get him for a 5th, I would try it. TE is a tough position to just pick up a new offense, and I doubt he would be as effective for the Packers. That said, he is a great veteran player who could perhaps learn quickly - but it would still take some time.

[Tony Oday]

only route he needs is 10 yard curl and a 9 route!

[cheesner]

Chiefs | Gonzalez deal in the works?
Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:35:33 -0700

Adam Schefter, of NFL.com, reports the Kansas City Chiefs have postponed their regular press conference Tuesday, Oct. 14, to 4 p.m. EST, perhaps a sign that the team is waiting to see if they can trade TE Tony Gonzalez. The team is fielding offers and asking for second- and fifth-round draft choices in return for Gonzalez. So far, teams are balking.


Per KFFL.comNo way TT does this deal. Now if there is a good DT or DE available . . . A position of far greater need.

[Tony Oday]

Chiefs | Gonzalez deal in the works?
Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:35:33 -0700

Adam Schefter, of NFL.com, reports the Kansas City Chiefs have postponed their regular press conference Tuesday, Oct. 14, to 4 p.m. EST, perhaps a sign that the team is waiting to see if they can trade TE Tony Gonzalez. The team is fielding offers and asking for second- and fifth-round draft choices in return for Gonzalez. So far, teams are balking.


Per KFFL.comNo way TT does this deal. Now if there is a good DT or DE available . . . A position of far greater need.

I wouldnt do this deal at all this is for a player in his prime 28 years old and stellar...

[cheesner]

only route he needs is 10 yard curl and a 9 route!It is not just receiving, he needs to learn the blocking scheme as well.

[retailguy]

this seems like a no-brainer, and a great move

so no way TT will do it

he will never give up anything more then a 6th or 7th rounder

he needs all those picks so he can right them all down on little pieces of paper and spank to them. at least thats my guess

He'd give up a 5th for Gonzo if that's all it took. I wouldn't give up a day 1 pick either, so if the bidding goes that high then I hope TT does NOT pull the trigger.

3rd rounder! DO IT! :) hehe

No. Day one picks should be used on guys who have yet to reach thier prime, not guys who are well past it.

3rd round is no longer day one.... :wink:

[Gunakor]

Chiefs | Gonzalez deal in the works?
Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:35:33 -0700

Adam Schefter, of NFL.com, reports the Kansas City Chiefs have postponed their regular press conference Tuesday, Oct. 14, to 4 p.m. EST, perhaps a sign that the team is waiting to see if they can trade TE Tony Gonzalez. The team is fielding offers and asking for second- and fifth-round draft choices in return for Gonzalez. So far, teams are balking.


Per KFFL.comNo way TT does this deal. Now if there is a good DT or DE available . . . A position of far greater need.

As far as I hear there are, but they play for Detroit right now. Interdivisional trades are very rare mid season. I don't expect to see a Cory Redding or a Dewayne White in a Packers uniform this season.

[Tony Oday]

this seems like a no-brainer, and a great move

so no way TT will do it

he will never give up anything more then a 6th or 7th rounder

he needs all those picks so he can right them all down on little pieces of paper and spank to them. at least thats my guess

He'd give up a 5th for Gonzo if that's all it took. I wouldn't give up a day 1 pick either, so if the bidding goes that high then I hope TT does NOT pull the trigger.



3rd rounder! DO IT! :) hehe

No. Day one picks should be used on guys who have yet to reach thier prime, not guys who are well past it.

3rd round is no longer day one.... :wink:

doh!

[Gunakor]

this seems like a no-brainer, and a great move

so no way TT will do it

he will never give up anything more then a 6th or 7th rounder

he needs all those picks so he can right them all down on little pieces of paper and spank to them. at least thats my guess

He'd give up a 5th for Gonzo if that's all it took. I wouldn't give up a day 1 pick either, so if the bidding goes that high then I hope TT does NOT pull the trigger.

3rd rounder! DO IT! :) hehe

No. Day one picks should be used on guys who have yet to reach thier prime, not guys who are well past it.

3rd round is no longer day one.... :wink:

Bah, I forgot that they changed that to better accomidate the TV viewing audience. Still...

[steve823]

Forget that. I'd rather have a pick used to get someone on our d-line. But I doubt Detriot will trade with us since we are in their division.

[sheepshead]

why do people get their hopes up?

TT won't do this, but if he can get him for a 5th, I would try it. TE is a tough position to just pick up a new offense, and I doubt he would be as effective for the Packers. That said, he is a great veteran player who could perhaps learn quickly - but it would still take some time.

Keith Jackson helped once upon a time.

[cheesner]

why do people get their hopes up?

TT won't do this, but if he can get him for a 5th, I would try it. TE is a tough position to just pick up a new offense, and I doubt he would be as effective for the Packers. That said, he is a great veteran player who could perhaps learn quickly - but it would still take some time.

Keith Jackson helped once upon a time.
Once upon a time we had a dominating defense, a great run offense and a good passing offense. KJ really helped the passing offense. The Pack of today has an okay defense, a great passing offense, and a poor running game. Not the same circumstance at all.

[Tony Oday]

why do people get their hopes up?

TT won't do this, but if he can get him for a 5th, I would try it. TE is a tough position to just pick up a new offense, and I doubt he would be as effective for the Packers. That said, he is a great veteran player who could perhaps learn quickly - but it would still take some time.

Keith Jackson helped once upon a time.
Once upon a time we had a dominating defense, a great run offense and a good passing offense. KJ really helped the passing offense. The Pack of today has an okay defense, a great passing offense, and a poor running game. Not the same circumstance at all.

But it would be fun!!!! :)

[Fritz]

why do people get their hopes up?

TT won't do this, but if he can get him for a 5th, I would try it. TE is a tough position to just pick up a new offense, and I doubt he would be as effective for the Packers. That said, he is a great veteran player who could perhaps learn quickly - but it would still take some time.

Keith Jackson helped once upon a time.
Once upon a time we had a dominating defense, a great run offense and a good passing offense. KJ really helped the passing offense. The Pack of today has an okay defense, a great passing offense, and a poor running game. Not the same circumstance at all.

Okay, this is bugging me: the previous page mentions a news source as saying the Chiefs want a second and a fifth for Gonzalez. I've read elsewhere that they want what the Giants got for Schockey - what was that, a second?

Okay - so that's the word that's out there. Next thing you know on this thread, people are bitching about TT - all the Giants want is a low second day pick and TT won't even give up a fifth rounder! Damn him and his love of draft picks!

So when did the asking price for Gonzalez become a fifth rounder? Why is the scenario now that Gonzalez can be had for a mere fifth or sixth?

Is this just an excuse to bash TT for something he - in reality - couldn't do? This is like getting mad at the guy because he hasn't solved the financial market crisis. I heard if he'd trade a fourth rounder to Washington the whole crisis would be solved, and TT is so cheap he won't do it. Bastard!

[sheepshead]

why do people get their hopes up?

TT won't do this, but if he can get him for a 5th, I would try it. TE is a tough position to just pick up a new offense, and I doubt he would be as effective for the Packers. That said, he is a great veteran player who could perhaps learn quickly - but it would still take some time.

Keith Jackson helped once upon a time.
Once upon a time we had a dominating defense, a great run offense and a good passing offense. KJ really helped the passing offense. The Pack of today has an okay defense, a great passing offense, and a poor running game. Not the same circumstance at all.

But it would be fun!!!! :)

I wasnt saying were going to be playing in February, but help is help. Gonzo would be a plus , I think we can agree on that.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Keith Jackson helped once upon a time.

ya, to fill in a little extra piece.

Gonzalez is a terrible fit for the Packers. They have young recievers on the rise, maybe even at TE, and this is not a super bowl year.

[Tony Oday]

Keith Jackson helped once upon a time.

ya, to fill in a little extra piece.

Gonzalez is a terrible fit for the Packers. They have young recievers on the rise, maybe even at TE, and this is not a super bowl year.

You shut your mouth when you are talking to me! ;)

[sheepshead]

Keith Jackson helped once upon a time.

ya, to fill in a little extra piece.

Gonzalez is a terrible fit for the Packers. They have young recievers on the rise, maybe even at TE, and this is not a super bowl year.

Wouldnt Gonzo as a threat free up more man on our WR's?

[Harlan Huckleby]

just like my dad

[Harlan Huckleby]

Wouldnt Gonzo as a threat free up more man on our WR's?

Sure, any team can use more good players. HE's a good player.

But he costs a roster spot, playing time lost to younger players, salary cap, a lost draft pick. All of which would be worth it if the Packers had an offensive line and defensive line ready for prime time.

[Tony Oday]

We are ready! I mean .500 after six games we only need to squeek in the playoffs and then rule them all! I mean look at the G.I.Ants!

[Harlan Huckleby]

We are ready! I mean .500 after six games we only need to squeek in the playoffs and then rule them all! I mean look at the G.I.Ants!

The Giants are not starting JErmemy Thompson at DE.

The Giants have an O-line.

[texaspackerbacker]

Not to inject politics or anything, but I was against getting Gonzales before I was for it.

Earlier, the talk was first round pick or more for Gonzales. Now, it's down to a 5th, give or take. For that, I would expect Thompson to be interested, and I'd be very much OK with that.

Two other new factors:

The mediocre start for the team makes an upgrade a slightly higher priority, and the specific mediocre play of Donald Lee compared to last year would make getting Gonzales relatively more of an upgrade.

So go ahead, Ted. You got my permission. I'd say no higher than a 4th rounder, though.

[sheepshead]

Staying Put!

[Cheesehead Craig]

Best move all around. We got bigger needs than TE. You just wait, Troy Humphrey will be huge this year still I tell ya... HUGE!

[falco]

Best move all around. We got bigger needs than TE. You just wait, Troy Humphrey will be huge this year still I tell ya... HUGE!

he may even be so big that people will get his name right! :P

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Best move all around. We got bigger needs than TE. You just wait, Troy Humphrey will be huge this year still I tell ya... HUGE!

Tory is to the packers as Soup is to the Crew. :wink:

[Cheesehead Craig]

Best move all around. We got bigger needs than TE. You just wait, Troy Humphrey will be huge this year still I tell ya... HUGE!

he may even be so big that people will get his name right! :P
Troy, Tory whatever his name is. That #84 fellow... Sterling Sharpe. That's who it is! :lol:

[boiga]

JSO: Bid to land Gonzalez falls short. Chiefs were willing to deal star tight end for second-round pick (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=806267)

Wow.... Ted was willing to pay a third for him but they wanted a second so the deal fell through... Gonzalez was willing to play three years here and is pissed the Chiefs wouldn't trade him for a third.

I'm glad Ted didn't overpay with Greg and Rodgers' paydays coming up, but still... a probowl tight end would have given us a more star studded offense than Dallas.

[SnakeLH2006]

JSO: Bid to land Gonzalez falls short. Chiefs were willing to deal star tight end for second-round pick (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=806267)

Wow.... Ted was willing to pay a third for him but they wanted a second so the deal fell through... Gonzalez was willing to play three years here and is pissed the Chiefs wouldn't trade him for a third.

I'm glad Ted didn't overpay with Greg and Rodgers' paydays coming up, but still... a probowl tight end would have given us a more star studded offense than Dallas.

Huh? This must be sarcasm....as uh...they have the 3 of the best skilled weapons in the NFL in TO, their RB, and Whitten......not to mention Pro-Bowlers across the board on their massive Oline and Romo when healthy. Gonzalez would not make much of difference on our O till we get some better Oline play. :roll:

[boiga]

Gonzalez and Witten are of the same caliber as receiving threats, although Witten is admittedly a better blocker. As a unit, our receivers are as good as Dallas + Roy Williams, and their O-line is over rated, as seen by the fact that Romo is out for four weeks.

So yes, Gonzalez would have tipped those scales in our favor.

[Partial]

Their OLINE > our OLINE

Their Receivers > our Receivers

Their Backs > our Backs

Their QB > our QB

Their TE > our TE

if we had Gonzalez, i'd say we'd match up in TE. That's it.

[SnakeLH2006]

Gonzalez and Witten are of the same caliber as receiving threats, although Witten is admittedly a better blocker. As a unit, our receivers are as good as Dallas + Roy Williams, and their O-line is over rated, as seen by the fact that Romo is out for four weeks.

So yes, Gonzalez would have tipped those scales in our favor.:shock:

Hahahaha. Ok then. I don't think we're close to having one player tipping the scales in our favor in O. Not till that line is fixed. :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol:

[boiga]

If that's the kind of reaction I'll get for responding to you, Snake, I don't think I'll ever make that mistake again.

Back on topic, was Thompson right in the way he handled this situation? He once again refused to over pay for a guy who would have been a quality addition to our team. I have the feeling that Gonzalez would have been more akin to Woodson and Pickett and would have contributed on arrival, but is a second rounder really that valuable?

I've got mixed feelings on this one.

[Tarlam!]

Their OLINE > our OLINE

Their Receivers > our Receivers

Their Backs > our Backs

Their QB > our QB

Their TE > our TE

if we had Gonzalez, i'd say we'd match up in TE. That's it.

Huh? I respectfully don't get this post.

[falco]

boiga > snakeLH2006

[Tarlam!]

boiga > snakeLH2006

Everybody is > snakeLH2006.

For someone with a 3.8 grade average, snakeLH2006 really surprises me with the lack of quality in his posts.

[Fritz]

I stand vindicated on this thread (I feel the need to point that out since I'm wrong often enough as well). Not only was Gonzalez not available for a fifth, he wasn't available for a fourth, and he wasn't available for a third. So for people piling on cuz TT wouldn't pull the trigger and give up a fifth rounder...time to wake up from your dream world.

Speaking of piling on TT, I'm a little pissed at the JSO for having a single sentence paragraph saying that this was another example of TT being unwilling to pull the trigger on a trade for a high-visibility offensive talent.

TT wasn't unwilling to pull the trigger - he just didn't want to pull the trigger on giving up a second rounder. A third round pick is not a paltry pick, but it wasn't enough. So TT made a decision that Gonzalez wasn't worth a second. I don't think that this fits with a characterization of TT as somehow being gunshy.

I don't think Gonzo is worth a second. Were he a better blocker (does anyone else out there think maybe the Packers' run game misses Bubba Franks's blocking?), well, maybe. But he's admittedly not a good blocker, and this offense needs run blocking to go with the receiving skills Gonzo brings.

[Bretsky]

I think Shockey was traded for a 2nd and 5th. He's younger but very injury prone.

Everybody wants a deal these days. I think Fair Market Value was a 2nd. I think Gonzo might have had a Keith Jackson impact on this team if he plays three more years. I doubt we'd go anywhere deep this year with or without him but the impace of the next three years may have warranted a 2nd.

I don't blame the Chiefs GM for holding out for a 2nd or TT for not giving one up.

We'd have our TE's set for a few years, and GB is going to pick up either a 2nd or 3rd round pick next year for getting rid of Favre.

I also don't blame McGinn; he offers commentary and mixes facts with opinions.

After all, trading for Turner would look pretty good right now...ditto for Moss before last year.

He helps sell papers with his views.

[Scott Campbell]

Things ended as they should have. Ted worked the deal and tried to land a guy that could help the team. In the end he refused to overpay. Cool by me.

[Bossman641]

I stand vindicated on this thread (I feel the need to point that out since I'm wrong often enough as well). Not only was Gonzalez not available for a fifth, he wasn't available for a fourth, and he wasn't available for a third. So for people piling on cuz TT wouldn't pull the trigger and give up a fifth rounder...time to wake up from your dream world.

Speaking of piling on TT, I'm a little pissed at the JSO for having a single sentence paragraph saying that this was another example of TT being unwilling to pull the trigger on a trade for a high-visibility offensive talent.

TT wasn't unwilling to pull the trigger - he just didn't want to pull the trigger on giving up a second rounder. A third round pick is not a paltry pick, but it wasn't enough. So TT made a decision that Gonzalez wasn't worth a second. I don't think that this fits with a characterization of TT as somehow being gunshy.

I don't think Gonzo is worth a second. Were he a better blocker (does anyone else out there think maybe the Packers' run game misses Bubba Franks's blocking?), well, maybe. But he's admittedly not a good blocker, and this offense needs run blocking to go with the receiving skills Gonzo brings.

I agree. That sentence seemed a little bush league. TT made the highest bid, and what seems like a good offer to me. There's no way I would want to give up a second for Gonzalez. He didn't lowball the Chiefs, he had the highest offer on the table. It also says that TT had increased his offer throughout the day.

[LL2]

It would’ve been awesome if we would’ve gotten Gonzo for a 3rd rd pick. Even ESPN is saying the Chiefs should’ve made the deal. Gonzo would’ve helped spread the field for the offense, which would’ve opened up the others receivers. He would’ve also helped the running game with his blocking skills. The additional bonus would’ve been that Jermicheal and Tory could’ve learned from one of the best. Since we are going to have two 2nd rd picks next year, I probably would’ve parted with a 2nd. Gonzo could’ve given GB 3 or 4 good years. How many 2nd rd picks do that?

[sheepshead]

Things ended as they should have. Ted worked the deal and tried to land a guy that could help the team. In the end he refused to overpay. Cool by me.

I think he does this more than we know.

[run pMc]

From JSO story: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=806267

Under Thompson, the Packers have drafted eight players in the second round. The list include Nick Collins, Terrence Murphy, Daryn Colledge, Greg Jennings, Brandon Jackson, Jordy Nelson, Brian Brohm and Pat Lee.


That's not a bad list...Collins, DC, GJ are starters, Bjack and Nelson contributing backups, and Lee is getting playing time. If not for injury, Murphy likely would be a backup if not a starter. I think the jury's still out on Brohm and Lee.

With that in mind, I'm not surprised TT didn't want to part with a R2. Gonzalez is a great player, but I think giving up a R2 could negatively impact the long term future. I'm thinking in terms of salary cap for resigning GB's own (Jennings, etc.) and also losing the R2 pick...which many would say should be used to draft a very solid OL or DL player instead of spent on aging but still very productive TE. Lee is a decent player, and Finley might develop. I haven't really noticed Humphrey much.

The cliche of "sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make" comes to mind.

[Patler]

Speaking of piling on TT, I'm a little pissed at the JSO for having a single sentence paragraph saying that this was another example of TT being unwilling to pull the trigger on a trade for a high-visibility offensive talent.


I think TT must have done something to tick off the JS staff.

I almost started a thread this week pointing out similarly critical comments in a handful of articles over the last several weeks. Not real direct, but seemingly critical of him not keeping Williams or signing an experienced D-line reserve, letting White go for Lansanah, not signing Grant earlier, being the youngest team in the league yet again, etc. What they write is true, but it appears to me that they are going out of their way and taking every opportunity they can to criticize him. Sometimes the Thompson comments almost seem out of place in the context of the article.

[Scott Campbell]

Does it seem out of whack that we'd give up a 3rd for Tony, but only a 4th for Randy?

[boiga]

Well, Tony is a better team player who has been putting up big numbers despite being on a lousy team. Moss was a washed up prima donna that wanted special treatment, gave up on routes, and was poison in the locker room.

There was no guarantee that Moss would have turned it around in GB the same way he did for the Pats, where as we can be pretty sure that Gonz would play his heart out for us in gratitude for getting him out of KC (barring injury).

In other words, Moss was the better skilled player but a worse fit for the Packers. We were also in rebuilding mode back then, making draft picks more valuable to us.

[Bossman641]

Does it seem out of whack that we'd give up a 3rd for Tony, but only a 4th for Randy?

It's cause TT hated Favre and was trying to force him out of town. Rodgers is TT's pet project, that's why TT writes love notes to Rodgers and bakes him cookies daily.

[Patler]

Does it seem out of whack that we'd give up a 3rd for Tony, but only a 4th for Randy?

I don't think so. Moss had a lot of physical questions coming out of Oakland; some thought he had lost all his speed. There were substantial attitude questions about Moss; some thought he had basically quit playing in Oakland. With Driver and Jennings, arguably there was less need for Moss. There are not many negative things said about Gonzales.

[mraynrand]

From JSO story: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=806267

Under Thompson, the Packers have drafted eight players in the second round. The list include Nick Collins, Terrence Murphy, Daryn Colledge, Greg Jennings, Brandon Jackson, Jordy Nelson, Brian Brohm and Pat Lee.


That's not a bad list...Collins, DC, GJ are starters, Bjack and Nelson contributing backups, and Lee is getting playing time. If not for injury, Murphy likely would be a backup if not a starter. I think the jury's still out on Brohm and Lee.

With that in mind, I'm not surprised TT didn't want to part with a R2. Gonzalez is a great player, but I think giving up a R2 could negatively impact the long term future. I'm thinking in terms of salary cap for resigning GB's own (Jennings, etc.) and also losing the R2 pick...which many would say should be used to draft a very solid OL or DL player instead of spent on aging but still very productive TE. Lee is a decent player, and Finley might develop. I haven't really noticed Humphrey much.

The cliche of "sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make" comes to mind.

And you never know what will come of that pick. The first #2 in 2006 was traded to NE for the Jennings and Spitz picks. He parlayed the Walker #2 into Colledge, Blackmon, Jolly, Culver and Ingle Martin. High picks are just too valuable in TT's draft system. I understand why he didn't want to go higher than a #3.

[Packnut]

No sense in making this trade cause Thompson is'nt looking to win this season. Rodgers need's game experience in order to be more consistent.

As for that list of TT picks? Just because a guy is a starter does'nt mean it was a good pick. Colledge is so inconsistent that saying he's any more than a tad below average would be nothing but bs. Jolly has vanished much like his stash of codeine. Brohm need's a ton of work. Harrell is, was and always will be a BUST. Anyone care to place a wager as to when his next injury will occur?

Nothing changes. Still the "let's make excuses" parade continues. Same people who backed Teddy's reason to fire Sherman about "injuries not being an excuse", goes out of their way to use the injury excuse now to protect Thompson.

We are 3-3 because:

A-our depth that was suppossed to be in place through the multitude of draft picks was over-estimated.

B- our first rd draft pick in th 07 draft has been of zero help at a position of need.

C-Our GM has a policy of drafting the "best available" player and not for need. This leaves holes at certain positions.

D-the "growth from with-in" mantra is still a work in progress.

And one more point. Gonzalez has been on the block for quite a while now. TT could have went to Favre after the season ended and told Brett he was going to get Gonzo. Favre never retires, Gonzo gets a full training camp in plus practice time with Favre. Rodgers does'nt get his feelings hurt and we make a SERIOUS run at the big dance. A win win for all.

The problem with some of you is that you think being average now is acceptable because like Thompson, your looking at the future. Well, playing for the future is just plain foolish. The window of chance in the NFL is small and closes quickly. There are to many variables like injuries, contract problems, how well other teams improve and just the bounce of the ball to be able to pin your hopes on 2 years from now.

Thompson had the chance to really be aggressive and make a serious run now. Favre proved beyond any doubt that our line was better with him at QBright now. With Favre and Gonzalez, this offense scores a shit-load of points forcing other teams to not rely as much on the run which is our big weakness. Ya need to look at the big picture and what could have been possible.

Yeah, I know, not Teddy's style. He likes the slow cautious way cause if you don't take risks that might back-fire, chances are ya keep your job longer. What boggles the mind is how so many of you accept this approach as being the right one without question................

[mraynrand]

Packnut, you make some good points about some draft picks not working out. You did overlook the injury aspect a bit. Finally, go check out the "TT blew it" thread and your questions about TG not coming to GB will be answered. It would have made the Packers better, but the question is: how much better, and is it worth it?

[Patler]

Nothing changes. Still the "let's make excuses" parade continues. Same people who backed Teddy's reason to fire Sherman about "injuries not being an excuse", goes out of their way to use the injury excuse now to protect Thompson.

We are 3-3 because:

A-our depth that was suppossed to be in place through the multitude of draft picks was over-estimated.

B- our first rd draft pick in th 07 draft has been of zero help at a position of need.

C-Our GM has a policy of drafting the "best available" player and not for need. This leaves holes at certain positions.

D-the "growth from with-in" mantra is still a work in progress.

The problem with some of you is that you think being average now is acceptable because like Thompson, your looking at the future. Well, playing for the future is just plain foolish. The window of chance in the NFL is small and closes quickly. There are to many variables like injuries, contract problems, how well other teams improve and just the bounce of the ball to be able to pin your hopes on 2 years from now.

Yeah, I know, not Teddy's style. He likes the slow cautious way cause if you don't take risks that might back-fire, chances are ya keep your job longer. What boggles the mind is how so many of you accept this approach as being the right one without question................

I would like to discuss, so please reply with that in mind.

First, where we agree. Harrell has been no help at all, obviously. It is looking less like he ever will, but it is too early to throw in the towel on his career yet. If he does sustain another significant injury this season, TT will be faced with an interesting problem about what to do with him next season.

I disagree that our depth was overestimated. The problem has been that we have had to go too deep in some areas. No one should expect the backup to the back to play as well as the starter. The questions become are they better than other teams backups to the backup, and have you kept the right players?

At DB - Tramon Williams has performed up to expectations, perhaps even better than expected. Contrary to some opinions, I think Blackmon has done what could be expected of him. There is a reason he was #4 on the depth chart and not #1, 2 or 3. Even more so at safety, where the #4 safety has been forced to start.

At LB they have demonstrated both depth and versatility with Chiller and Poppinga splitting play somewhat, and Chiller giving the injured Hawk some plays off.

The D-line is struggling, not because replacements are bad, but again because of how deep they have had to go. Losing Jenkins was significant, but beyond that they have been without their expected reserves in Montgomery and Jason Hunter. How deep are they digging for a starting DE and reserve tackles.

On offense, the depth at WR has been demonstrated, with the injury absences of Jones and Martin at various times not even being noticed

I don't think the problems leading to 3-3 have been lack of depth as much as lack of performance from frontline players, including special teams. Except for Harrell, the D-line was healthy going into the season, yet did not play particularly well.

Finally - a question for our further discussion. What unaddressed holes in the roster would you have had him draft for, and who would you not have drafted in order to do it?

[red]

i can't fault TT for this one. i also think a #2 is too much for a 32 year old TE

i think a 3rd was exactly the right price. and honestly, i'm shocked TT offered that high of a pick

i'm impressed

[Bretsky]

Things ended as they should have. Ted worked the deal and tried to land a guy that could help the team. In the end he refused to overpay. Cool by me.

Overpay :?:

I'm fine either way but Gonzo is worth a 2nd and the KC GM made a good choice by not getting screwed

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm fine either way but Gonzo is worth a 2nd and the KC GM made a good choice by not getting screwed

he's evidently not worth a #2, nobody was willing to pay it.

you can make a good argument that he is worth it, but the evaluators look at many factors. Draft picks are valuable because you sometimes get good players for little money during their first contract years.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Things ended as they should have. Ted worked the deal and tried to land a guy that could help the team. In the end he refused to overpay. Cool by me.

Overpay :?:

I'm fine either way but Gonzo is worth a 2nd and the KC GM made a good choice by not getting screwed

Not getting screwed? How so? He doesn't go into this year's draft with an extra pick..unless he trades TG in the offseason. Do you really think teams are gonna pay more for him then.

TG will have another season under his belt..another year of dings..and closer to retirement.

The GM blew it. KC isn't going anywhere. The faster they start on the reclamation project, the faster they get back to the playoffs.

[Bretsky]

I'm fine either way but Gonzo is worth a 2nd and the KC GM made a good choice by not getting screwed

he's evidently not worth a #2, nobody was willing to pay it.

you can make a good argument that he is worth it, but the evaluators look at many factors. Draft picks are valuable because you sometimes get good players for little money during their first contract years.


so if he garners more than a 2nd in the offseason does that mean he was worth more than a 2nd :?:

It's all relative and he'll be worth different amounts to different teams.

KC may not be able to maximize what they can get right before the deadline with all of the teams knowing he requested a deal.

Of course draft picks are valuable; although we also know from past history they are far from guaranteed to turn into anything.

[Patler]

It's all relative and he'll be worth different amounts to different teams.

KC may not be able to maximize what they can get right before the deadline with all of the teams knowing he requested a deal.


I am very, very surprised that GB's offer of a third was the highest offer. Gonzales could be a key element to the Giants return to the Super Bowl. If anyone would be willing to give a second, I would have expected it to be the Giants, a major contender in the Super Bowl run and a team who needs a TE.

[Patler]

Not getting screwed? How so? He doesn't go into this year's draft with an extra pick..unless he trades TG in the offseason. Do you really think teams are gonna pay more for him then.


Maybe they won't pay more, but they probably will not pay any less either, so KC will have lost nothing by waiting.

In the off-season, more teams might be willing to make offers, which could increase the price to a second, or at least garner a higher pick in the third, or even get a third and a lower round pick. There may be teams who are interested, but would have problems fitting him under the cap now, during the season, with veteran cap impacts fixed. Its a more free and open market in the off-season.

[wist43]

The Packers are so far away from being a contender that trading for veteran talent at this point would be windmill tilting.

The Packers lack blue chip talent... they have a ton of young guys, and will always have a ton of young guys as long as TT is GM... but that's the jig isn't it??? 37 draft picks every year... a red chip player here and there, and some decent depth type players, but no real impact guys.

Jennings is an impact guy, but one impact guy in 4 years, and a 32 year old TE aren't going to win you any championships.

Deal would have made absolutely no sense, as the Packers aren't going anywhere.

[pack4to84]

Looks like TT thought the trade was finalized. Chiefs GM changed his mind as time ran out trading deadline. So don't blame TT on this one. He had the deal done he thought.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=806795

The Green Bay Packers thought they had closed a deal for the Kansas City Chiefs' Tony Gonzalez just before the trading deadline, but according to the nine-time Pro Bowl selection Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson pulled out at the last second.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/packers/309733

The Green Bay Packers thought they had a done deal to trade for nine-time Pro Bowl tight end Tony Gonzalez, only to have the rug pulled out from under them by the Kansas City Chiefs minutes before the trading deadline Tuesday when Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson raised the asking price.

[th87]

Looks like TT thought the trade was finalized. Chiefs GM changed his mind as time ran out trading deadline. So don't blame TT on this one. He had the deal done he thought.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=806795

The Green Bay Packers thought they had closed a deal for the Kansas City Chiefs' Tony Gonzalez just before the trading deadline, but according to the nine-time Pro Bowl selection Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson pulled out at the last second.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/packers/309733

The Green Bay Packers thought they had a done deal to trade for nine-time Pro Bowl tight end Tony Gonzalez, only to have the rug pulled out from under them by the Kansas City Chiefs minutes before the trading deadline Tuesday when Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson raised the asking price.

Fuck Carl Peterson for ruining my day. Heard he sucks to deal with. Apparently he pulled the same stunt with Jared Allen.

[Bretsky]

Not getting screwed? How so? He doesn't go into this year's draft with an extra pick..unless he trades TG in the offseason. Do you really think teams are gonna pay more for him then.


Maybe they won't pay more, but they probably will not pay any less either, so KC will have lost nothing by waiting.

In the off-season, more teams might be willing to make offers, which could increase the price to a second, or at least garner a higher pick in the third, or even get a third and a lower round pick. There may be teams who are interested, but would have problems fitting him under the cap now, during the season, with veteran cap impacts fixed. Its a more free and open market in the off-season.


BINGO

[mraynrand]

It seems to me that teams are more likely to be desperate and willing to pay more during the season. I'm thinking about Holmgren picking up Branch for a #1, for example. Would be interesting to look at a collection of guys traded during the season and offseason to see if the 'cost' really differs.

[Patler]

It seems to me that teams are more likely to be desperate and willing to pay more during the season. I'm thinking about Holmgren picking up Branch for a #1, for example. Would be interesting to look at a collection of guys traded during the season and offseason to see if the 'cost' really differs.

The problem for some teams can be the salary cap. You can't just cut a veteran during the season to gain cap space. Their salaries are guaranteed now. There might (nothing is certain) be more teams interested in the off season when they can work an expensive player under their cap by dumping salaries. More competition for the player might jack up the price.

But I do agree, desperation can lead GMs to do dumb things under the pressure of a season.

My point was simply that KC might not be any worse of by waiting to trade Gonzales. Maybe they will be, too. We certainly can't say for sure right now.

[Fritz]

I'm fine either way but Gonzo is worth a 2nd and the KC GM made a good choice by not getting screwed

he's evidently not worth a #2, nobody was willing to pay it.

you can make a good argument that he is worth it, but the evaluators look at many factors. Draft picks are valuable because you sometimes get good players for little money during their first contract years.

Harlan, are you saying that Gonzalez isn't worth a shit???