TT Blows It Again?

[rbaloha1]

To date, I support TT's drafting, personnel moves and salary cap management.

Wished TT made the Randy Moss transaction but with the emergence of Jennings maybe the failure to land RM was not critical.

Was TT around when the Packers secured Keith Jackson for a second round pick? We all know what followed.

TT's failure to secure a pro bowler with huge salary cap space for a second rounder is unacceptable. Yes, the current tes are promising but have failed to deliver.

TG instantly puts the Packers right back as super bowl contender.

[Zool]

http://img269.echo.cx/img269/2702/fail0at.jpg

[arcilite]

To date, I support TT's drafting, personnel moves and salary cap management.

Wished TT made the Randy Moss transaction but with the emergence of Jennings maybe the failure to land RM was not critical.

Was TT around when the Packers secured Keith Jackson for a second round pick? We all know what followed.

TT's failure to secure a pro bowler with huge salary cap space for a second rounder is unacceptable. Yes, the current tes are promising but have failed to deliver.

TG instantly puts the Packers right back as super bowl contender.


lol wut?

[MadtownPacker]

Damn, day late and a dolla short on this one... :lol:

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=15171

[sheepshead]

To date, I support TT's drafting, personnel moves and salary cap management.

Wished TT made the Randy Moss transaction but with the emergence of Jennings maybe the failure to land RM was not critical.

Was TT around when the Packers secured Keith Jackson for a second round pick? We all know what followed.

TT's failure to secure a pro bowler with huge salary cap space for a second rounder is unacceptable. Yes, the current tes are promising but have failed to deliver.

TG instantly puts the Packers right back as super bowl contender.


http://www.esnips.com/doc/f1def9bb-b033-4a90-b4a9-a9bb2a2e5db6/Halloween---Scary-Organ-Music

[PackerTimer]

To date, I support TT's drafting, personnel moves and salary cap management.

Wished TT made the Randy Moss transaction but with the emergence of Jennings maybe the failure to land RM was not critical.

Was TT around when the Packers secured Keith Jackson for a second round pick? We all know what followed.

TT's failure to secure a pro bowler with huge salary cap space for a second rounder is unacceptable. Yes, the current tes are promising but have failed to deliver.

TG instantly puts the Packers right back as super bowl contender.

You do know that TT was the highest bidder in offering a third, right? Obviously there weren't many people out there that thought he was worth a second. Do the people who don't like a move or non-move of TT ever look at the facts or two they get blinded by how nice it would be to have an aging, overpaid, overhyped "superstar." He has made some questionable moves but most of his non-moves have usually worked out pretty well. I'm glad TT wasn't willing to go higher than a third because TG just wasn't worth it. This is the same mentality that drives a person to pay three times what Nintedo Wii is worth on ebay because the stores are out of stock. Hell I'm thinking about voting TT for president. Good bye deficit hello fiscal responsibility. :D

[Patler]

I think you have to ask yourself this question:

With the Packers ability to put out 4 or even 5 quality WRs, how much would Gonzales improve the passing game?

I don't dispute is abilities. He is far better than any TE the Packers have as a receiver, but there are only so many passes completions to go around and only so many plays to be run. This is not the teams of 1995 and 1996. The Packers have very good quality and depth at WR, and some decnet receiving ability at TE. A pro bowl TE might not have the same impact on this team as Jackson had back then.

In 1995 the second leading receiver was Bennett, and Chmura was third. Then game another RB, Levens. the second leading WR was 5th on the team. Only three WRs figured at all prominently in the passing game. The TEs had a much bigger role. In 1996 there were injuries, but again only about 3 WRs had prominent parts in the passing game.

Back then, two TE formations were used for passing, because Jackson and Chmura were among the 4 best receiving options on the team, and it dropped off significantly after that. Even though Gonzales would be the best TE on the roster, the TEs are not enough of a focus on the team for the impact to be as great.

[Patler]

You do know that TT was the highest bidder in offering a third, right? Obviously there weren't many people out there that thought he was worth a second.

Not to mention that two of the teams were the Giants and Eagles, who seem to have more glaring needs for a starting TE than the Packers. If anyone should have been interested in perhaps spending a bit more than they hoped, it should have been the Giants or Eagles. Yet apparently TT outbid them.

[mraynrand]

TG instantly puts the Packers right back as super bowl contender.

I think this would be true, if he could rush the passer like an Osi Umenyiora.

[mraynrand]

You do know that TT was the highest bidder in offering a third, right? Obviously there weren't many people out there that thought he was worth a second.

Not to mention that two of the teams were the Giants and Eagles, who seem to have more glaring needs for a starting TE than the Packers. If anyone should have been interested in perhaps spending a bit more than they hoped, it should have been the Giants or Eagles. Yet apparently TT outbid them.

SCORE! AND SCORE AGAIN!

[cheesner]

How many times does TT have to be right before these annoying posts go away?


Thread in 2012 after 3 Packer superbowl victories:


TT Screws up again!

Just like when he missed out on moss and TG, TT blows it again. I saw him filling up his truck at Citgo which is at $8.33/gal and Texaco is only $8.21/gal one block away!

[steve823]

Tony G is great but wasnt worth it. We dont need a TE that badly. We need to improve our run D and they would make our defense complete. (barring injury of course) Now if somebody like Marcus Stroud was a free agent I would say hell give a 2nd OR our 3rd + 3/4th we get from Jets. If TT got Marcus Stround instead of him going to buffalo our d would be a lot more solid.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think you have to ask yourself this question:

With the Packers ability to put out 4 or even 5 quality WRs, how much would Gonzales improve the passing game?

I don't dispute is abilities. He is far better than any TE the Packers have as a receiver, but there are only so many passes completions to go around and only so many plays to be run. This is not the teams of 1995 and 1996. The Packers have very good quality and depth at WR, and some decnet receiving ability at TE. A pro bowl TE might not have the same impact on this team as Jackson had back then.

In 1995 the second leading receiver was Bennett, and Chmura was third. Then game another RB, Levens. the second leading WR was 5th on the team. Only three WRs figured at all prominently in the passing game. The TEs had a much bigger role. In 1996 there were injuries, but again only about 3 WRs had prominent parts in the passing game.

Back then, two TE formations were used for passing, because Jackson and Chmura were among the 4 best receiving options on the team, and it dropped off significantly after that. Even though Gonzales would be the best TE on the roster, the TEs are not enough of a focus on the team for the impact to be as great.

Tight Ends cause match up problems for the defense in terms of physical stature that 4 or 5 receivers can't. You have to force a team to either commit a linebacker to guarding Gonzalez which he usually out classes with speed and athletiscm or a safety which can't simply match the height and bulk of a tight end like Gonzalez. So then teams will use a cover scheme of a safety and linebacker, one short and one deep, hence taking two defenders to cover on tight end which in terms opens up the field for your receivers. A good quality tight end that can run will also crush the cover two, something a wide receiver can't do because defenses will substitute extra backs into the game.

I don't think I would have given up a number 2 for Gonzalez, maybe if he wasn't make a boat load of cash, but I don't know if he was even close to the same player he was 3 years ago. He is aging and quite possibly not worth his contract anymore.

But since I hate Ted Thompson and wish he would die by death of Tape Worm he failed not getting a hall of fame player in Green Bay, I heard he has a severe dislike to anyone with a destination to Canton.

[Tarlam!]

But since I hate Ted Thompson and wish he would die by death of Tape Worm he failed not getting a hall of fame player in Green Bay, I heard he has a severe dislike to anyone with a destination to Canton.

You sick fuck! So, how are the wife and kids?

[Deputy Nutz]

But since I hate Ted Thompson and wish he would die by death of Tape Worm he failed not getting a hall of fame player in Green Bay, I heard he has a severe dislike to anyone with a destination to Canton.

You sick fuck! So, how are the wife and kids?


Emotionally distraught after I told them about your lack of income. I need a nanny if you are interested? I got a fat cousin that has been looking for a husband for some time now, I think she is a real catch, any interest?

[Tarlam!]

Emotionally distraught after I told them about your lack of income. I need a nanny if you are interested? I got a fat cousin that has been looking for a husband for some time now, I think she is a real catch, any interest?

Tell 'em not to worry. I still have enough left over money to keep me and my lifestyle alive for 8 more weeks.

How fat is fat? I am quite the Rubin's connoisseur, you should know!

[Patler]

Tight Ends cause match up problems for the defense in terms of physical stature that 4 or 5 receivers can't. You have to force a team to either commit a linebacker to guarding Gonzalez which he usually out classes with speed and athletiscm or a safety which can't simply match the height and bulk of a tight end like Gonzalez. So then teams will use a cover scheme of a safety and linebacker, one short and one deep, hence taking two defenders to cover on tight end which in terms opens up the field for your receivers. A good quality tight end that can run will also crush the cover two, something a wide receiver can't do because defenses will substitute extra backs into the game.


I don't disagree with that. My point is that you can also create problems for the defense, but of a different nature when you have decent WRs and an OK receiving TE like Lee. When teams have to run out not only their third CB, but also their 4th CB and/or their 3rd safety because the Packers have some combination of Lee, Nelson, Jones or Martin on the field with Jennings and Driver, it probably favors the Packers.

The key really is to have a bunch of quality receivers, whether they be TEs or WRs so you create problems for the defense in countering with LBs or DBs. While Gonzales would be an improvement, I don't think it would be as big of an improvement as Jackson made in '95-'96. Not because Gonzales isn't good enough, but because the Packers have a lot of receiving options already. The '95-'96 Packers would have been much more limited without Jackson than the 2008 Packers are without Gonzales. Therefore, in my mind, the acquisition of Gonzales would be less significant.

[Cheesehead Craig]

TG instantly puts the Packers right back as super bowl contender.

I think this would be true, if he could rush the passer like an Osi Umenyiora.
He shoots, he scores!

[Partial]

patlerized. Anybody wanna make a "patlerized" photoshop image?

[mraynrand]

patlerized. Anybody wanna make a "patlerized" photoshop image?


http://s453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/?action=view&current=Patlerized.jpg

[Patler]

patlerized.

Na...not really. We're just discussing things in this thread. No right or wrong. No facts or fables. Just everyone's opinions, and that's fine.

[Patler]

patlerized. Anybody wanna make a "patlerized" photoshop image?


http://s453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/?action=view&current=Patlerized.jpg

Man, you guys are fast!

[Tarlam!]

patlerized. Anybody wanna make a "patlerized" photoshop image?


http://s453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/?action=view&current=Patlerized.jpg

Man, you guys are fast!

OK, who coined the phrase???? Huh? Who????

[Patler]

patlerized. Anybody wanna make a "patlerized" photoshop image?


http://s453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/?action=view&current=Patlerized.jpg

Man, you guys are fast!

OK, who coined the phrase???? Huh? Who????

Take a bow, oh "Crazy Rat"!

[Tarlam!]

patlerized. Anybody wanna make a "patlerized" photoshop image?


http://s453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/?action=view&current=Patlerized.jpg

Man, you guys are fast!

OK, who coined the phrase???? Huh? Who????

Take a bow, oh "Crazy Rat"!

Thank you, thank you thank you. *bowing*

[Bretsky]

To date, I support TT's drafting, personnel moves and salary cap management.

Wished TT made the Randy Moss transaction but with the emergence of Jennings maybe the failure to land RM was not critical.

Was TT around when the Packers secured Keith Jackson for a second round pick? We all know what followed.

TT's failure to secure a pro bowler with huge salary cap space for a second rounder is unacceptable. Yes, the current tes are promising but have failed to deliver.

TG instantly puts the Packers right back as super bowl contender.


My compliments for putting your views out there. If Gonzo plays for three more years IMO that warrants a 2nd. I don't have a strong view out there as to whether TT should have made the deal work. But I did have the view that Gonzo could have had a Keith Jackson like impact and when we get our defense back next year it would have made this team scary.

Shockey is an injury prone character risk and he went for a second and fifth.

My guess is Gonzo warrants at least a second rounder in the offseason.

[The Shadow]

Tony G is great but wasnt worth it. We dont need a TE that badly. We need to improve our run D and they would make our defense complete. (barring injury of course) Now if somebody like Marcus Stroud was a free agent I would say hell give a 2nd OR our 3rd + 3/4th we get from Jets. If TT got Marcus Stround instead of him going to buffalo our d would be a lot more solid.


Wisdom.

[packerbacker1234]

I think you have to ask yourself this question:

With the Packers ability to put out 4 or even 5 quality WRs, how much would Gonzales improve the passing game?

I don't dispute is abilities. He is far better than any TE the Packers have as a receiver, but there are only so many passes completions to go around and only so many plays to be run. This is not the teams of 1995 and 1996. The Packers have very good quality and depth at WR, and some decnet receiving ability at TE. A pro bowl TE might not have the same impact on this team as Jackson had back then.

In 1995 the second leading receiver was Bennett, and Chmura was third. Then game another RB, Levens. the second leading WR was 5th on the team. Only three WRs figured at all prominently in the passing game. The TEs had a much bigger role. In 1996 there were injuries, but again only about 3 WRs had prominent parts in the passing game.

Back then, two TE formations were used for passing, because Jackson and Chmura were among the 4 best receiving options on the team, and it dropped off significantly after that. Even though Gonzales would be the best TE on the roster, the TEs are not enough of a focus on the team for the impact to be as great.


Of course, that could be attributed to the fact our TE is just not good enough to warrant what the two from the 90's did. Gonzalez is.

Then agian - he wouldn't get Favre any extra weapons, no clue why anyone would think he would for AR. TT is a drafting man.

[Deputy Nutz]

patlerized. Anybody wanna make a "patlerized" photoshop image?

???? Again you chime in about something you no little if even a little bit of surface information on. Gee Patler is right in most cases teams believe with the rules slanted towards the offense in the NFL that they will happily match up their fourth wide receiver on a defenses dime back. I don't see much in the terms of athletic ability and football talent between a 4th defensive back and a number 4 wide receiver, in fact I favor the defensive back in that case.

Where a tight end is going to make a difference is on early downs when the teams have to expect run and or pass and the mismatch with the tight end is intensified, sure it helps to have a Jason Witten on a 3rd and 9, but the big plays from the tight end is on early downs when they draw favorable matchups against guys like Brady Poppinga.

[mraynrand]

but the big plays from the tight end is on early downs when they draw favorable matchups against guys like Brady Poppinga.

Or, when you force the other team to put in a Chillar - or even an extra defensive back - to stay with you in coverage, and then you gash them in the run game (but that requires at least some ability of the TE to block).

[mraynrand]

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/Patlerized.jpg

[rbaloha1]

Thanks for all the great replies.

Surprised there was not more outrage for not signing TG. Imagine the noise if this occurred around the Favre drama.

Still maintain TT should have given up a second round pick. Does a second round pick have the same impact as TG?

Oh well at least the cap space allows to sign A-Rod and GJ which IMO takes priority over acquiring TG.

[cheesner]

Surprised there was not more outrage for not signing TG. Imagine the noise if this occurred around the Favre drama.

I think most fans love the direction the Packers are headed in. Much of this would not have been possible if TT had signed a bunch of free agents.



Still maintain TT should have given up a second round pick. Does a second round pick have the same impact as TG?

Probably. Jennings was a second round pick - obviously at this stage of their careers Jennings is far more valuable. I would rather have a young 2nd rounder with potential at a reasonable salary for potentially his entire career than to have a very expensive TG for a short while.


Oh well at least the cap space allows to sign A-Rod and GJ which IMO takes priority over acquiring TG.
That is the point. Signing guys like TG makes it difficult to sign guys like GJ and ARod. I know it can be done mathematically, but somewhere on the roster or in the near future, you will suffer.

[bbbffl66]

Surprised there was not more outrage for not signing TG. Imagine the noise if this occurred around the Favre drama.

I think most fans love the direction the Packers are headed in. Much of this would not have been possible if TT had signed a bunch of free agents.



Still maintain TT should have given up a second round pick. Does a second round pick have the same impact as TG?

Probably. Jennings was a second round pick - obviously at this stage of their careers Jennings is far more valuable. I would rather have a young 2nd rounder with potential at a reasonable salary for potentially his entire career than to have a very expensive TG for a short while.


Oh well at least the cap space allows to sign A-Rod and GJ which IMO takes priority over acquiring TG.
That is the point. Signing guys like TG makes it difficult to sign guys like GJ and ARod. I know it can be done mathematically, but somewhere on the roster or in the near future, you will suffer.

Perpetual mediocre teams will make us all suffer.

[Patler]

I don't see much in the terms of athletic ability and football talent between a 4th defensive back and a number 4 wide receiver, in fact I favor the defensive back in that case.


Depends on the depth of the WR corp. When Jackson made such a difference for the Packers in '95 and '96 I would agree, or maybe even say the 5th or 6th DB of most teams would have had an advantage over the Packers 4th and 5th receivers (Mickens, Mayes, etc.) With the current group of Packer WRs, assuming Jones were healthy, I think the advantage goes to the Packers matching the depth of their group of wide receivers against the depth of most teams defensive backfields.

[Patler]

but the big plays from the tight end is on early downs when they draw favorable matchups against guys like Brady Poppinga.

Or, when you force the other team to put in a Chillar - or even an extra defensive back - to stay with you in coverage, and then you gash them in the run game (but that requires at least some ability of the TE to block).

I don't disagree with that, but you can achieve favorable running matchups putting in WRs too, by getting one or two of the linebackers off the field and much smaller, less willing to tackle nickel and dime cover guys on. Especially if you have decent blocking WRs like Ruvell Martin and even Driver to some extent. Nelson looks like he will be a good one with more practice at it. He is a very willing blocker.

Again, I'm not disputing that Gonzales could have provided different options and strengths. I just don't think his addition to this team would have had the same impact as Jackson did to the team in '95 and '96, most because of the strength of the current WR corp.