"I'm a strong black man"

[Tarlam!]

I asked myself when I saw this interview, why Vince Young said "black man" and not just "man".

I was glad one reporter posed the question directly, too.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80ba9dd0

What if A-Rod said "I am a strong white man" ? I believe there would be a scandal.

I am far from being a racist. But I think Vince's comment was racist and I am offended by it.

Thoughts?

[SkinBasket]

I don't think it's too bad. Certainly not as bad as the kind of rampant racism that's allowed in the black community and often times promoted by their political and religious leaders, but given a free pass under the guise of poverty, anger, and oppression. We live in a world where only the majority has to feel ashamed for racism, at least here in the states. Which is too bad.

[hoosier]

I asked myself when I saw this interview, why Vince Young said "black man" and not just "man".

I was glad one reporter posed the question directly, too.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80ba9dd0

What if A-Rod said "I am a strong white man" ? I believe there would be a scandal.

I am far from being a racist. But I think Vince's comment was racist and I am offended by it.

Thoughts?

Why do think it was racist of him to say that the last few weeks have made him a "stronger black man"? Racism implies a belief in the innate superiority of one "race" over another. Why is that comment racist? I can understand you being puzzled over why Vince Young felt the need to emphasize his skin color in that context, but I don't see why the need to judge his comment as divisive.

[HowardRoark]

I asked myself when I saw this interview, why Vince Young said "black man" and not just "man".

I was glad one reporter posed the question directly, too.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80ba9dd0

What if A-Rod said "I am a strong white man" ? I believe there would be a scandal.

I am far from being a racist. But I think Vince's comment was racist and I am offended by it.

Thoughts?

Why do think it was racist of him to say that the last few weeks have made him a "stronger black man"? Racism implies a belief in the innate superiority of one "race" over another. Why is that comment racist? I can understand you being puzzled over why Vince Young felt the need to emphasize his skin color in that context, but I don't see why the need to judge his comment as divisive.

I agree you Hoosier. The misuse of the word racism (confusing with prejudice in particular) causes a lot of problems in our country. It is too bad he doesn't heed MLK's words though and have a dream when race doesn't matter.....even if he is a black man.

[mraynrand]

I saw a recent poll that asked blacks and whites whether they thought of themselves as black or white or as American first. 47% of blacks said black first, American second. Whites ran about 47%. The point is not that blacks are necessarily less American than whites, just that racial identity is more of an issue for blacks, in general.

[Zool]

Black people identify with their race much more than their nationality. If someone asks what a white person is, they usually reply Irish, German, Norweigan etc not European.

[MateoInMex]

I asked myself when I saw this interview, why Vince Young said "black man" and not just "man".

I was glad one reporter posed the question directly, too.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80ba9dd0

What if A-Rod said "I am a strong white man" ? I believe there would be a scandal.

I am far from being a racist. But I think Vince's comment was racist and I am offended by it.

Thoughts?

Why do think it was racist of him to say that the last few weeks have made him a "stronger black man"? Racism implies a belief in the innate superiority of one "race" over another. Why is that comment racist? I can understand you being puzzled over why Vince Young felt the need to emphasize his skin color in that context, but I don't see why the need to judge his comment as divisive.

Good post. I remember seeing Chuck D from the late 80's-90's group Public Enemy, and Harry Allen aka "The Media Assasin" at a college lecture some years back. Basically the same question was posed asking them why the need to refer to themselves as "strong black men", rather than just "strong men"..would it be considered racist. Both argued as African-Americans they're not in a position to be racist because black Amercians have never ruled over the white Americans. Anyway, it was greeted with many cheers and a sprinkling of boos. Then the people who booed got their asses kicked outside after the lecture ...but anyway back to the point of Vince Young.

I don't have anything against what he said as an African-American professional athlete saying he's a strong black man. I do however, take issue with Vince Young saying it.

ISN'T VINCE YOUNG THE SAME GUY THAT HAD HAS FEELINGS HURT BY MERRILL HOGE ON ESPN? Merrill Hoge made a few comments about Vince Young being a big baby, and VY took it personal...like Ray Finkle personal.

Vincen Baby, dude....it's Merrill Fucking Hoge! You were the star of a championship bowl game at Texas!!! So when Vince Young says he's a strong black man, physically I would agree. But if you let Merrill Hoge get under your skin, I would question his mental toughness.

[mraynrand]

Both argued as African-Americans they're not in a position to be racist because black Amercians have never ruled over the white Americans.

I don't have anything against what he said as an African-American professional athlete saying he's a strong black man.

I think both positions are understandable, as a matter of history and culture, but I think they are wrong, and hopefully in the future, we'll see less and less of this. Still, I think overall it's pretty low level stuff.

[hoosier]

I asked myself when I saw this interview, why Vince Young said "black man" and not just "man".

I was glad one reporter posed the question directly, too.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80ba9dd0

What if A-Rod said "I am a strong white man" ? I believe there would be a scandal.

I am far from being a racist. But I think Vince's comment was racist and I am offended by it.

Thoughts?

Why do think it was racist of him to say that the last few weeks have made him a "stronger black man"? Racism implies a belief in the innate superiority of one "race" over another. Why is that comment racist? I can understand you being puzzled over why Vince Young felt the need to emphasize his skin color in that context, but I don't see why the need to judge his comment as divisive.

Good post. I remember seeing Chuck D from the late 80's-90's group Public Enemy, and Harry Allen aka "The Media Assasin" at a college lecture some years back. Basically the same question was posed asking them why the need to refer to themselves as "strong black men", rather than just "strong men"..would it be considered racist. Both argued as African-Americans they're not in a position to be racist because black Amercians have never ruled over the white Americans. Anyway, it was greeted with many cheers and a sprinkling of boos. Then the people who booed got their asses kicked outside after the lecture ...but anyway back to the point of Vince Young.

I don't have anything against what he said as an African-American professional athlete saying he's a strong black man. I do however, take issue with Vince Young saying it.

ISN'T VINCE YOUNG THE SAME GUY THAT HAD HAS FEELINGS HURT BY MERRILL HOGE ON ESPN? Merrill Hoge made a few comments about Vince Young being a big baby, and VY took it personal...like Ray Finkle personal.

Vincen Baby, dude....it's Merrill Fucking Hoge! You were the star of a championship bowl game at Texas!!! So when Vince Young says he's a strong black man, physically I would agree. But if you let Merrill Hoge get under your skin, I would question his mental toughness.

Excellent point. I think Vincent doth protest a little too much.

[Tarlam!]

Nobody answered the other half of the question while defending Vince's rights to claim he is a strong black man. Namely, what if A-Rod (and I will add now) Kampy, Tausch, Cliffy or Jordy came out and said "I am a strong white man"?

Because, that's my point of contention. They would get hammered.

I think it is NOT OK that blacks can be proud of their race and whites cannot.

[hoosier]

Nobody answered the other half of the question while defending Vince's rights to claim he is a strong black man. Namely, what if A-Rod (and I will add now) Kampy, Tausch, Cliffy or Jordy came out and said "I am a strong white man"?

Because, that's my point of contention. They would get hammered.

I think it is NOT OK that blacks can be proud of their race and whites cannot.

"White pride" is code for white supremacy in age when outright racism has become largely if not entirely stigmatized. "Black pride" movements from the 1960s to the present have defined themselves as attempts to level the playing field. You can argue that the fields are now essentially level, but I would submit that a reasonable person could also argue that they are not. At least not everywhere and not in every context. More level than they were 40 years ago, no doubt about it, but not completely level yet. We can argue the levelness question later. For now I'm just trying to make the point that white pride is the voice of a historically dominant social group trying to maintain its dominance; black pride (and hispanic pride) are voices of historically underprivileged groups. You can dispute what the field looks like today, but you can't dispute the history or the fact that history matters for today.

[mraynrand]

Nobody answered the other half of the question while defending Vince's rights to claim he is a strong black man. Namely, what if A-Rod (and I will add now) Kampy, Tausch, Cliffy or Jordy came out and said "I am a strong white man"?

Because, that's my point of contention. They would get hammered.

I think it is NOT OK that blacks can be proud of their race and whites cannot.

"White pride" is code for white supremacy in age when outright racism has become largely if not entirely stigmatized. "Black pride" movements from the 1960s to the present have defined themselves as attempts to level the playing field. You can argue that the fields are now essentially level, but I would submit that a reasonable person could also argue that they are not. At least not everywhere and not in every context. More level than they were 40 years ago, no doubt about it, but not completely level yet. We can argue the levelness question later. For now I'm just trying to make the point that white pride is the voice of a historically dominant social group trying to maintain its dominance; black pride (and hispanic pride) are voices of historically underprivileged groups. You can dispute what the field looks like today, but you can't dispute the history or the fact that history matters for today.

That's a pretty reasonable assessment. In similar ways, the playing field isn't exactly equal for women, in all areas, but some of that is due to profound gender differences and is mostly OK. The key, I think is to always work towards equality of opportunity as opposed to equality of outcome.

[MadtownPacker]

Nobody answered the other half of the question while defending Vince's rights to claim he is a strong black man. Namely, what if A-Rod (and I will add now) Kampy, Tausch, Cliffy or Jordy came out and said "I am a strong white man"?

Because, that's my point of contention. They would get hammered.

I think it is NOT OK that blacks can be proud of their race and whites cannot.I agree that Whiteys should be able to be proud of being Nabiscos. It always get a bad rep of being associated with Swastikas and all that crap. I feel there needs to be a White pride day to be fair to those who lack color.

As someone who is not White I approve this message.

[mraynrand]

I feel there needs to be a White pride day to be fair to those who lack color.

I think it depends on how much melanin you actually lack.

I always support Albino Pride Parades

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Afro_brazilian_albino_pride.jpg (under repairs)

[texaspackerbacker]

Little kids are taught that line--"I'm a proud black" whatever. If it's racist, it's on the part of the leaders pushing the attitude, not so much the youth repeating it.

Vince Young was/is apparently troubled and insecure. I can see how his usage of that line could have been some sort of a coping mechanism.

I'm hoping he gets over his problems, as I've got him on a lot of fantasy teams.

[Tarlam!]

Wow. Elegant way to avoid the question, hoosier. You pose a wonderful historical argument and tell us that, because whites once did terrible things to Blacks/Hispanics, whites have revoked their racial pride rights - at least for the time being.

As if whites are the only race that feels some type of supremacy.

Have you ever looked into how Chinese or Japanese feel about their races? I think you should explore that. The Asian thinking makes caucasians look positively ecumenical.

I think it is garbage that whites would be attributed to having "white supremacy" doctrines if they were to say "I am a strong white man" and I find it utterly unacceptable that black people can say "I am a strong black person".

If we are discussing equality, which I am, then neither or both should be allowed.

I am discusted by how the South African government has been punishing white males since Apartheid was banished and I am digusted by the reverse racial trends taking place in modern western society.

[HowardRoark]

......We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone.

And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.

I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive.

Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair.

I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.

This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring."

And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!

Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous peaks of California!

But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!

Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

[hoosier]

Wow. Elegant way to avoid the question, hoosier. You pose a wonderful historical argument and tell us that, because whites once did terrible things to Blacks/Hispanics, whites have revoked their racial pride rights - at least for the time being.

As if whites are the only race that feels some type of supremacy.

Have you ever looked into how Chinese or Japanese feel about their races? I think you should explore that. The Asian thinking makes caucasians look positively ecumenical.
I think it is garbage that whites would be attributed to having "white supremacy" doctrines if they were to say "I am a strong white man" and I find it utterly unacceptable that black people can say "I am a strong black person".

If we are discussing equality, which I am, then neither or both should be allowed.

I am discusted by how the South African government has been punishing white males since Apartheid was banished and I am digusted by the reverse racial trends taking place in modern western society.

Huh? I didn't avoid anything. It's you who's now inserting questions you never asked. You asked about VY and used the hypothetical of ARod claiming pride in being white. So I answered the question about "white pride." If you had asked about Asians I might have responded to that, but you didn't so I didn't go there. Was I supposed to talk about Eskimos too?

In my view equality refers to opportunity. Social, economic and political opportunity. I agree with Rand on that much. Equality does not guarantee identical outcomes, but it also doesn't mean that words lose their histories. In an ideal world VY wouldn't feel the need to affirm his pride in being black. But apparently he does, and his doing so does not in any way demean whites. Whereas if ARod were to start talking about "white power" he would be speaking a language that is based on the supposed inferiority of other races.

[MJZiggy]

I love that speech Howard. I wonder how he would have felt about this topic...

[Brando19]

Honestly...I am offended by Vince's comment. Listen, I am not one bit racist. However, there are alot of African-Americans who say skin color does not matter and everyone should be equal...that's fine..I agree. But when people like Vince Young say, "I'm a strong black man"...that's just specifying he's black...as if that's better than white or something. Some of the other posters are right, if Rodgers said, "I"m a strong white man"..holy hell there would have been a blow up on national television. Oh well.

[SkinBasket]

Way to fuck up the formatting with your freakshow picture mraynrand.

[Tarlam!]

Actually hoosier, I was responding to your assertion that white pride is a dirty thing. I countered with my reference to Asian pride. I didn't add any new questions.

If Brando19 is correct in saying that all hell would brake loose if A-Rod said something similar, then our world isn't spinning on the correct axis anymore.

I am not in the slightest bit racist, but I am offended when blacks call eachother the "n" word and I have to use "the "n" word" in a post to avoid being labelled racist.

It's a massive double standard.

[Tarlam!]

......We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone.

And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.

I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive.

Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair.

I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.

This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring."

And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!

Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous peaks of California!

But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!

Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

I wanted to read this without the formatting issues. Please forgive me. I've heard of it obviously, but never actually read it before.

[Partial]

I think reverse racism is a far bigger deal in society today than actual racism. It gives kids the complete wrong message of how life should work.

[Tarlam!]

I think reverse racism is a far bigger deal in society today than actual racism. It gives kids the complete wrong message of how life should work.

I can't judge it, because there are so few minorities in Germany, but if you say so, I believe you.

And, it appalls me.

I know whites have done shit in the past that was intolerable. But making me and my son pay for it is equivalent to making me and my son pay for the Nazis gassing 6 million Jews.

I had nothing to do with slavery and nothing to do with concentration camps. Neither did my father or grandfather or great grandfather or any other father.

I am a strong white man.

[Zool]

No such thing as reverse racism. Its either racism or its not.

[mraynrand]

More cut and paste. Source?





......We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone.

And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.

I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow cells. Some of you have come from areas where your quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive.

Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed. Let us not wallow in the valley of despair.

I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day the state of Alabama, whose governor's lips are presently dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, will be transformed into a situation where little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls and walk together as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today.

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.

This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring."

And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!

Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous peaks of California!

But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!

Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

[hoosier]

Actually hoosier, I was responding to your assertion that white pride is a dirty thing. I countered with my reference to Asian pride. I didn't add any new questions.

If Brando19 is correct in saying that all hell would brake loose if A-Rod said something similar, then our world isn't spinning on the correct axis anymore.

I am not in the slightest bit racist, but I am offended when blacks call eachother the "n" word and I have to use "the "n" word" in a post to avoid being labelled racist.

It's a massive double standard.

I'm not following you here, Tarlam. Is your position that "white pride" should be accepted as a mainstream, legitimate cultural movement because "black pride" movements are considered acceptable? Or are you saying that neither are acceptable?

As for the "n-word" point, do you really think everyone should follow the same social norms in every social situation? Do you speak the same way with your friends as you do with your parents? The same with your children as with your spouse? If you drop an F bomb talking to your friends should your five year old also be entitled to use the same word? If you call a friend a "fag" would it be ok for a stranger to call you the same?

I think your idea about absolute "equality" in choosing how to speak to others is both unrealistic and naive.

[Zool]

Hoosier daddy Tarlam?

[HowardRoark]

More cut and paste. Source?

Mr. Three at last Three at last, thank God almighty Three at last!!!!!!!!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

I think reverse racism is a far bigger deal in society today than actual racism. It gives kids the complete wrong message of how life should work.

I can't judge it, because there are so few minorities in Germany, but if you say so, I believe you.

And, it appalls me.

I know whites have done shit in the past that was intolerable. But making me and my son pay for it is equivalent to making me and my son pay for the Nazis gassing 6 million Jews.

I had nothing to do with slavery and nothing to do with concentration camps. Neither did my father or grandfather or great grandfather or any other father.

I am a strong white man.

Not to minimize the Holocaust or anything, but the fact is, there have been significantly WORSE episodes in the last century or so, some still going on.

Stalin supposed murdered 20 million in the same time period that Hitler was murdering 6 million. That information gets suppressed because the media and education establishment tends to idealize Communism--even now after the Cold War has ended--possibly more so now as memories of the bilateral power struggle fade.

Pol Pot in Cambodia; The Hutu genocide of Tutsis; And probably some others that made even less headlines are right up there if not surpassing the Holocaust in total numbers as well as depravity.

All this because poor pathetic Vince Young repeated some line spewed to him by the black racists who try (and usually succeed) to manipulate young black minds in the wrong direction--with the complete blessing and complicity of sick white liberals. Why? To keep that 90%+ down on the liberal plantation, of course.

[Scott Campbell]

Actually hoosier, I was responding to your assertion that white pride is a dirty thing. I countered with my reference to Asian pride. I didn't add any new questions.

If Brando19 is correct in saying that all hell would brake loose if A-Rod said something similar, then our world isn't spinning on the correct axis anymore.

I am not in the slightest bit racist, but I am offended when blacks call eachother the "n" word and I have to use "the "n" word" in a post to avoid being labelled racist.

It's a massive double standard.

I'm not following you here, Tarlam. Is your position that "white pride" should be accepted as a mainstream, legitimate cultural movement because "black pride" movements are considered acceptable? Or are you saying that neither are acceptable?

As for the "n-word" point, do you really think everyone should follow the same social norms in every social situation? Do you speak the same way with your friends as you do with your parents? The same with your children as with your spouse? If you drop an F bomb talking to your friends should your five year old also be entitled to use the same word? If you call a friend a "fag" would it be ok for a stranger to call you the same?

I think your idea about absolute "equality" in choosing how to speak to others is both unrealistic and naive.



I guess it depends on what color my kids are.

[mraynrand]

Way to fuck up the formatting with your freakshow picture mraynrand.

Ooops. I know how to resize images in html, but I don't seem able to do it here. Can someone explain to me how to arrange the [/size] designations to shrink the image?

[HowardRoark]

Can someone explain to me how to arrange the [/size] designations to shrink the image?

Throw it in the ocean off the coast of Oregon.

[Tarlam!]

Hoosier daddy Tarlam?

I doubt it Zool, but thanks for your opinion. If people choose to ignore what I actually say in favour of winning an acedemic debate, then I'm sorry, I don't bow down to that.

Hoosier is cclearly well educated and has class when it comes to making an argument.

He just doesn't get it or want to get it.

[Tarlam!]

(...)

Yes. My position is that every race should be allowed to be proud of itself, provided it doesn't expect some supreme right over other races.

I think the "n" word and my dropping an F bomb in front of my kids comparison is plain silly and you are stretching. And, if you are honest, you'll admit it.

I find you an excellent debater, and I'll be the first to concede, but you'll have to actually address my arguments before I do so.

[mraynrand]

More cut and paste. Source?

Mr. Three at last Three at last, thank God almighty Three at last!!!!!!!!!!

Content of character, not color of skin. If everything were judged in that light, all the rest would fly into the ether. If someone said nigger to joke around or to read Twain, using the word wouldn't matter. If someone used it to denigrate someone else, it would matter. That would be true no matter how much melanin was in the epidermal cells. Using the word 'Fuck' is in no way similar to nigger or to faggot. Again, using fag to denigrate someone would be wrong, but to identify them as homosexual, it shouldn't be a problem. The problem is that self-identified groups want to alter conditions to favor their groups - appropriating words and language that only they are then permitted to use and others have to respect their pre-conditions or be labeled haters. Content of character. Content of character.

[Tarlam!]

Are you quoting or was that your own stuff, Ray?

Friggen' got my attention!

[hoosier]

Yes. My position is that every race should be allowed to be proud of itself, provided it doesn't expect some supreme right over other races.
Fine, I have no problem with that idea as you've stated it. The problem is that there's a subtle but very important difference between my "being proud" of my whiteness and my advocating something that calls itself "white pride." Take a look around the internet or do a google search on "white pride." What you'll find is a lot of toxic stuff. Going back to your original example, if ARod were to say that he's "proud of being white" it would at the very least raise questions about whether he was giving a coded message supporting the racist crap that you'll find in "white pride" movements.



I think the "n" word and my dropping an F bomb in front of my kids comparison is plain silly and you are stretching. And, if you are honest, you'll admit it.

I find you an excellent debater, and I'll be the first to concede, but you'll have to actually address my arguments before I do so.

I'm still trying to figure out where your argument is going. I think I understand you to be arguing against what you see as a double standard (black pride good, white pride bad) while also kind of saying that white pride shouldn't be bad. Is that it?

Here's my take on the n-word: Blacks, like certain other minority groups in this country, find themselves in an inherently unequal relation to the white majority for the following reason: there is no true white equivalent to the word "nigger", no word for whites that carries as much hatred, bloodshed and oppression, for the historical reason that blacks were oppressed in this country for centuries while whites were not--at least not as a social group for the sole reason that they were white. Because being black and being white , as well as the names that go along with those experiences, have very unequal histories, you can't expect a minority group to suddenly "forget" the history of a word that the dominant group used for so long to hold them down. If they can't escape it, their only positive choice is to take ownership of it.

I agree that it will be a good day when blacks no longer refer to each other as "nigga" because that will indicate that we've all managed to put the past to rest. But we're not there yet.

[mraynrand]

Are you quoting or was that your own stuff, Ray?

Friggen' got my attention!

That's mine. Like I said above, I understand where race, class, gender (group) identification comes from historically and operationally, and the seductive nature of wanting to be part of a special group. But the idea of actively propagating and elevating groups, defined only by gender, skin color, sexual orientation, etc. when we KNOW THAT IT IS DESTRUCTIVE, instead of truly leveling the opportunity playing field, disturbs me.

[Tarlam!]

Hoosier, you're an intellectual. I had no idea!

And your grey cells are trying so hard to overlook what this thread is all about. I am NOT an intellectual. I do not deserve being treated as one, so stop doing me the honour and just try and get my message.

I find Vince Young's comments to be offensive, because if anybody ANYBODY Caucasian said "I am a strong WHITE man" there would be a massive public outcry.

That seems to be a fact. I find that atrocious, I am insulted by that and I want it to go away.

If the man had simply said "I am a strong man" this thread isn't even here.

[Tarlam!]

That's mine.(...)

I hang out with some smart dudes. Really smart.

You and hoosier and Howard and ***, you blow me away.


I wish I could think and write like you people!

[mraynrand]

That's mine.(...)

I hang out with some smart dudes. Really smart.

You and hoosier and Howard and ***, you blow me away.


I wish I could think and write like you people!

"You people?" What did you mean by that? :D

[Tarlam!]

That's mine.(...)

I hang out with some smart dudes. Really smart.

You and hoosier and Howard and ***, you blow me away.


I wish I could think and write like you people!

"You people?" What did you mean by that? :D

:D Funny! Big hug!!

[Fosco33]

I did a quick search for 'black pride' using google.

Rather than finding 'black panther' and 'hate whitey' groups - it was almost exclusively lesbian, gay, transgender stuff.

Weird.

If I searched for white pride, I'd need to add more search terms to find white clubs.

[mraynrand]

I started searching too, and I found:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2251/2331007416_510cafd273.jpg
http://www.jumpcut.com/media/dyn/91/0449/c468465a490c02eeea4184cc79/view.jpg

Now that's the way to live! SC would agree with me!

[Scott Campbell]

Now that's the way to live! SC would agree with me!



Funny how all you guys assume that having multiple wives is a really good idea.

As a practical matter, it's a living hell.

[mraynrand]

Now that's the way to live! SC would agree with me!



Funny how all you guys assume that having multiple wives is a really good idea.

As a practical matter, it's a living hell.

I don't believe you for a second. BTW, I'm watching "Pride of the YankMes." It's everything a porn movie ought to be - and more.

[Fosco33]

Now that's the way to live! SC would agree with me!



Funny how all you guys assume that having multiple wives is a really good idea.

As a practical matter, it's a living hell.

You ever read 'Under the Banner of Heaven' - seems wild.
Working in SLC for 20 months with many saints, they have a neg view on the plural wife culture of FLDS. What's your take?

[mraynrand]

Now that's the way to live! SC would agree with me!



Funny how all you guys assume that having multiple wives is a really good idea.

As a practical matter, it's a living hell.

You ever read 'Under the Banner of Heaven' - seems wild.
Working in SLC for 20 months with many saints, they have a neg view on the plural wife culture of FLDS. What's your take?

I didn't know too many doing LDS when I lived there, but the good Mormons down at Willow Creek Vet Clinic didn't seem to have multiple spouses. But I wasn't really checking up on them. I was busy canning fruit.