Time to sit Wells? Clifton?

[Patler]

Scott Wells did not participate in practice on Thursday. He strained a chest muscle in practice on Wednesday. They don't believe it is serious, but are being careful. Clifton of course was held out of practice, too.

Wells is becoming amazingly unreliable physically for a young guy. MM emphasized a few weeks ago that the line needed to practice together in order to improve its performance. He even had Clifton take more reps during the week before last because of that, but then Clifton was out most if not all of last week's practices.

When these guys are out it affects two positions, because Colledge and Spitz are their backups. So not only do Clifton and Wells miss their practices, Colledge and Spitz miss reps at their regular positions, too. Then game time rolls around and you have 4 changes from the way they lined up in practice. Only Tauscher stays the same.

If Sitton is healthy, I think it is time to pull the plug on Wells as the starter, go to Spitz at center and start Sitton. I'm close to saying the same for Clifton.

[Tarlam!]

I've been thinking this (your thread title) and added Tausch for 3 weeks. I know Wells has only been back less.

I love all 3 for what they have done for the Packers, but it's time for them to become backups.

[Patler]

I still think Tauscher is the best RT on the team.

I'm less convinced that Colledge-Barbre is worse than Clifton-Colledge (or some other variation such as Spitz at LG and Sitton at RG.) Once Clifton gets over the hamstring or whatever his injury is, I think they will be better with him, but I would be willing to try another lineup until he gets as healed as he can.

I would really like to try Spitz at center with Sitton at guard. I think Wells-Spitz is better than Spitz-Moll, but I would like to see Spitz-Sitton for a game.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Clifton has a high cap number and I don't see him finishing his contract.

I look for more than one O lineman to be drafted new year.

Sure a couple of high picks will go to DT with contracts expiring soon. CB may get one but mid rounders will be on the O-line.

Tauscher's contract is up at the end of the year. Barbre and Sitton are promising at Guard. The tackles need upgrading and a little bit of competition will help. Moll is not the answer.

Spitz and Colledge still deserve more time as they are still learning and improving.

Every draft at least one O-lineman and one D-lineman is needed. Regardless of other needs.

[mraynrand]

Patler, the coaches should know if the constant disruption is causing the loss of line cohesiveness. I suspect they are really close to doing what you suggest. It wouldn't surprise me if the new line is revealed after the bye week. The key will be to look at those nagging injuries and ask: "Is this going to go on all year?" If they think the answer is yes, it's time to pull the plug on the two of them. If no, they might try to use the bye week to heal everyone up and keep going. If Wells and Clifton continue to be hurt after that, then it may kill the second half of the season along the line. I think they should make the change over the bye, if not this week. (If Colledge were to go this week, he would really have his hands full - good thing the game is not on turf in Indy).

[Patler]

TT has drafted O-linemen every year, usually two, and I don't see that changing. Wolf always seemed to draft some every year too. He said you have to just to cover normal attrition. Wolf always seemed to have a couple waiting in the wings to take over, but that was by necessity, especially guards, because he didn't believe in paying the guards all that much and was content with new starters on the O-line just about every year.

I'm sort of intrigued by Giacomini. Obviously he is of no help whatsoever this year, and may not be next year either, he is that raw, apparently. But with a couple years of weight training, he could be a huge RT, and they say he has very good feet and athleticism. They also say he is extremely focused and very tenacious. Might turn out to be nothing, but looks like he could be an interesting developmental player, too.

[Patler]

Patler, the coaches should know if the constant disruption is causing the loss of line cohesiveness. I suspect they are really close to doing what you suggest. It wouldn't surprise me if the new line is revealed after the bye week. The key will be to look at those nagging injuries and ask: "Is this going to go on all year?" If they think the answer is yes, it's time to pull the plug on the two of them. If no, they might try to use the bye week to heal everyone up and keep going. If Wells and Clifton continue to be hurt after that, then it may kill the second half of the season along the line. I think they should make the change over the bye, if not this week. (If Colledge were to go this week, he would really have his hands full - good thing the game is not on turf in Indy).

I agree. I was surprised that MM mentioned the disruptions were taking their toll. He even said he talked to Clifton about sitting out last week and this to have basically 3-4 weeks to recover, and allow the team to have consistency in practice and games. MM seems concerned about the disruptions, but also seems a bit reluctant to act. The bye week might be the time for him to think it through and do it. Clifton has been such a rock in pass protection that I can understand TT's reluctance to sit him.

With Wells it is turning out to be one thing after another. He missed three starts last year, and has been hurt through out the off season and now with one thing or another.

[PackerTimer]

I agree. If these guys can't practice at all, then it's time to sit them until they are healthy enough to go in practice. I agree that it's better to have Colledge - Barbre - Spitz - Sitton - Tausch practice and then play than it is to have that group practice and then Clifton - Colledge - Wells - Spitz - Tausch play. Think about, one player is practicing at their position. Thats it. Everybody else is only getting reps at their position on game day. It makes no sense.

[AV David]

I too have been thinking Clifton and Wells should be benched for awhile. Sitton and Barbre are inexperienced but much stronger in moving big bodies in the run game. It can't hurt to try.

[Pugger]

I'm beginning to wonder if our poor line play can be attributed to coaching - especially Campen. :roll: Yes, some of the guys are hurting but before Campen became our line coach I don't remember our line playing this poorly even when we plugged in back-ups.... :?: Or am I wrong.... :huh:

[Patler]

I'm beginning to wonder if our poor line play can be attributed to coaching - especially Campen. :roll: Yes, some of the guys are hurting but before Campen became our line coach I don't remember our line playing this poorly even when we plugged in back-ups.... :?: Or am I wrong.... :huh:

The line didn't play well during Sherman's last season, with Wahle and Rivera gone, and Beightol as the O-line coach. Beightol took a lot of flak for that, even from some of Sherman's comments toward the end of the year. The line didn't play well in MM's first season with Joe Philbin as the O-line coach. It's been an ongoing concern.

[Freak Out]

Whoever is out there come Sunday they better be ready for Freeney.

[The Shadow]

Pressure (or lack of it) on Manning will tell the tale on Sunday.
Time for KGB to awaken.

[Tony Oday]

If these guys are too hurt to battle at a top level sit them and let them get healthy.

[The Shadow]

Wells is a bit easier to sub for (Spitz) than Clifton.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think they should consider moving Tausch at some point in time to guard. That was the plan in the past. Could work out now.

[Guiness]

I look for more than one O lineman to be drafted new year.

CC, I think at this point you'd know better than to make any sort of a prediction about what TT's going to do in the draft! 8-)

[digitaldean]

I don't know about moving Tauscher, at least at this point.

One thing seems apparent, Clifton though still trying like hell through injury is struggling mightily this year.

With the amt. of injury he has to deal with, I don't see him being here beyond 1 more season. Tauscher has had his issues so far too, but nearly to the same degree.

I'd lean to having Sitton get in there more.

[Guiness]

I'm sort of intrigued by Giacomini. Obviously he is of no help whatsoever this year, and may not be next year either, he is that raw, apparently. But with a couple years of weight training, he could be a huge RT, and they say he has very good feet and athleticism. They also say he is extremely focused and very tenacious. Might turn out to be nothing, but looks like he could be an interesting developmental player, too.

Giacomini does seem to be a project. I hope he turns out better than our last OL project, Coston - he was also raw, needed time to develop physically, etc. I'm surprised they didn't stash him on the PS, and move him up if someone tried to sign him.

[boiga]

Considering we were doubting him prior to the Indy game, we should all give a lot of credit to Cliffy for taking yet another probowl speed rushing DE out of the game. Football Outsiders thought so much of his play that they singled him out for in depth analysis of how he out played Freeney. Here's the end of a much longer article (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/cover-3/cover-3-matchups):

Clifton's extremely good at picking up speed-rushing ends from an angle, as he did to Freeney with 8:20 left in the first half. Freeney tried to drive inside at the snap, but Clifton proved to be far too powerful, and his technique too good, for that to happen. By the end of the first half, Clifton was starting to exert physical pressure on Freeney, forcing him lower to the ground and taking away whatever leverage he had.

Clifton was going to have some advantages coming into this game - the Colts didn't blitz a lot, which meant that he wouldn't have to deal with Freeney's speed and someone else's power at the same time. Still, his ability to take that speed and consistently push it out of the way really impressed me. He also displayed the ability to drive-block when facing end Josh Thomas on certain plays. Clifton is a classic grinder -- he's missed only one game since returning in 2003 from the Sapp injury -- and he's playing as well as any team can ask of its premier offensive lineman. Freeney displayed good speed and agility; he was simply defeated by an opponent playing at a very high level.

So Clifton's still got it and we should all feel like schmucks for doubting the guy.

[Fred's Slacks]

Considering we were doubting him prior to the Indy game, we should all give a lot of credit to Cliffy for taking yet another probowl speed rushing DE out of the game. Football Outsiders thought so much of his play that they singled him out for in depth analysis of how he out played Freeney. Here's the end of a much longer article (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/cover-3/cover-3-matchups):

Clifton's extremely good at picking up speed-rushing ends from an angle, as he did to Freeney with 8:20 left in the first half. Freeney tried to drive inside at the snap, but Clifton proved to be far too powerful, and his technique too good, for that to happen. By the end of the first half, Clifton was starting to exert physical pressure on Freeney, forcing him lower to the ground and taking away whatever leverage he had.

Clifton was going to have some advantages coming into this game - the Colts didn't blitz a lot, which meant that he wouldn't have to deal with Freeney's speed and someone else's power at the same time. Still, his ability to take that speed and consistently push it out of the way really impressed me. He also displayed the ability to drive-block when facing end Josh Thomas on certain plays. Clifton is a classic grinder -- he's missed only one game since returning in 2003 from the Sapp injury -- and he's playing as well as any team can ask of its premier offensive lineman. Freeney displayed good speed and agility; he was simply defeated by an opponent playing at a very high level.

So Clifton's still got it and we should all feel like schmucks for doubting the guy.

Clifton played a great game this week. He looks like the Cliffy of old. I was hard on him before. For a couple weeks he looked like a shell of himself. I wondered if it was an injury that was hindering him. Hopefully with some rest in the bye week, this is the Cliffy we'll see the rest of the year. He has been the biggest reason for our improved play the last 2 weeks.

[bobblehead]

Considering we were doubting him prior to the Indy game, we should all give a lot of credit to Cliffy for taking yet another probowl speed rushing DE out of the game. Football Outsiders thought so much of his play that they singled him out for in depth analysis of how he out played Freeney. Here's the end of a much longer article (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/cover-3/cover-3-matchups):

Clifton's extremely good at picking up speed-rushing ends from an angle, as he did to Freeney with 8:20 left in the first half. Freeney tried to drive inside at the snap, but Clifton proved to be far too powerful, and his technique too good, for that to happen. By the end of the first half, Clifton was starting to exert physical pressure on Freeney, forcing him lower to the ground and taking away whatever leverage he had.

Clifton was going to have some advantages coming into this game - the Colts didn't blitz a lot, which meant that he wouldn't have to deal with Freeney's speed and someone else's power at the same time. Still, his ability to take that speed and consistently push it out of the way really impressed me. He also displayed the ability to drive-block when facing end Josh Thomas on certain plays. Clifton is a classic grinder -- he's missed only one game since returning in 2003 from the Sapp injury -- and he's playing as well as any team can ask of its premier offensive lineman. Freeney displayed good speed and agility; he was simply defeated by an opponent playing at a very high level.

So Clifton's still got it and we should all feel like schmucks for doubting the guy.

Clifton played a great game this week. He looks like the Cliffy of old. I was hard on him before. For a couple weeks he looked like a shell of himself. I wondered if it was an injury that was hindering him. Hopefully with some rest in the bye week, this is the Cliffy we'll see the rest of the year. He has been the biggest reason for our improved play the last 2 weeks.

I don't feel like a schmuk...the cliffy I saw before leaving for thailand was looking pretty ass sad. I'm VERY glad he is turning it around as I have always been a big fan of his pass blocking. I hope the article is accurate and he is turning it around to the form we are used to (which is shutting down fools who try to hit our QB)

[Fritz]

If you're going to sit either Wells or Clifton, my guess would be Wells first. Not only did Cliffy play pretty well against Indy, I think he's earned the right to hang in there a little longer as a starter than Wells has.

One piece of the puzzle at a time. I'd like to see Clifton-College-Spitz-Sitton-Tauscher first.

Hey, whatever happened to Barbre? He was going to be the next big thing, and now he's inactive half the time. Cripes, Tony "The Stiff" Moll is ahead of him on the depth chart.

[hoosier]

If you're going to sit either Wells or Clifton, my guess would be Wells first. Not only did Cliffy play pretty well against Indy, I think he's earned the right to hang in there a little longer as a starter than Wells has.

One piece of the puzzle at a time. I'd like to see Clifton-College-Spitz-Sitton-Tauscher first.

Hey, whatever happened to Barbre? He was going to be the next big thing, and now he's inactive half the time. Cripes, Tony "The Stiff" Moll is ahead of him on the depth chart.

Not to mention that the Packers don't have a proven legit LT waiting in the wings if they did decide to sit Clifton. Colledge MIGHT be able to do it, but I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing him into the fray against the opponent's best passrusher the way he's performed up until now. Besides, Clifton has a way of rising to the occasion in big games. Wells, on the other hand, if they sit him that puts Spitz at center and lets them try out one of the many possibilities at RG while losing relatively little.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm actually fine with Colledge at LT. It seems like he plays better at OT than OG. I did notice he looks a lot bigger this year though. Physically, I think he's finally molded himself into an OG.

[pbmax]

If you're going to sit either Wells or Clifton, my guess would be Wells first. Not only did Cliffy play pretty well against Indy, I think he's earned the right to hang in there a little longer as a starter than Wells has.

One piece of the puzzle at a time. I'd like to see Clifton-College-Spitz-Sitton-Tauscher first.

Hey, whatever happened to Barbre? He was going to be the next big thing, and now he's inactive half the time. Cripes, Tony "The Stiff" Moll is ahead of him on the depth chart.
Barbre suffers because he can only play one position and it isn't LT. Some games they seem to have only one active spot for a guy like that and right now that spot is Sitton's.

I agree though, I would like to see Spitz at C and Sitton at Guard get some playing time this year. Clifton will hopefully recover some over the bye but odds are he will need to be rested which means Barbre will get some time at LG.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Barbre suffers because he can only play one position and it isn't LT.

ya, but his ability at LG allows Colledge to move to LT

uhhh, never mind, guess this is a Mr. Obvious post.

[mraynrand]

I'm actually fine with Colledge at LT. It seems like he plays better at OT than OG. I did notice he looks a lot bigger this year though. Physically, I think he's finally molded himself into an OG.

But when he misses his backside block, it's brutal. He had a couple bad ones against the Colts, one for a 2 yard loss.

It was a relief to see Clifton play a whole lot better on Sunday. I was telling a lady friend to keep an eye on #93 for the Colts and after the game she said: "He didn't do anything." Pretty much true, with the exception of a play or two, thanks to Cliffy.