A reason to vote for Obama

[gex]

Well after reading these and other arguments for the last few weeks/months, I have changed my mind and will vote for Obama.

After Obama beat Hillary I was all for Mcain, but the only thing I ever hear from Mcain/repub voters is "my money, my money, me,me,me"
Enough is enough, its time to start ponying up for anybody who makes more than $90,000/yr.

Most people around here raise families on between $30-75,000/yr. and the ones making $75 are considered to be living the good life.

You people(greedy) may not like it, but Obama's gettin in and its gonna happen. Time to start taking care of each other as a whole society.

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

[LL2]

Well after reading these and other arguments for the last few weeks/months, I have changed my mind and will vote for Obama.

After Obama beat Hillary I was all for Mcain, but the only thing I ever hear from Mcain/repub voters is "my money, my money, me,me,me"
Enough is enough, its time to start ponying up for anybody who makes more than $90,000/yr.

Most people around here raise families on between $30-75,000/yr. and the ones making $75 are considered to be living the good life.

You people(greedy) may not like it, but Obama's gettin in and its gonna happen. Time to start taking care of each other as a whole society.

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

For real?

[GoPackGo]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

Those are called college students, college dropouts, and high school grads. Your reasons on voting for Obama are laughable. In Rhinelander, the only people who make decent money are small business owners and contactors/tradesman. You more than most people should know what Obamas tax policies will mean to your local economy

[arcilite]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

Those are called college students, college dropouts, and high school grads. Your reasons on voting for Obama are laughable. In Rhinelander, the only people who make decent money are small business owners and contactors/tradesman. You more than most people should know what Obamas tax policies will mean to your local economy


They should help since he is going out of his way to help out small businesses.

[GoPackGo]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

Those are called college students, college dropouts, and high school grads. Your reasons on voting for Obama are laughable. In Rhinelander, the only people who make decent money are small business owners and contactors/tradesman. You more than most people should know what Obamas tax policies will mean to your local economy


They should help since he is going out of his way to help out small businesses.

Who should help who? Who is going out of his way to help small businesses? what?
Gex claims his location as the land of the Hodag. I know that means he's in Rhinelander. The only people who make decent money up there are small business owners and tradesman. Those are also the only people creating jobs in Rhinelander. If you burden them with higher taxes, no one will have jobs and times will be even tougher than they already are.

[retailguy]

Well after reading these and other arguments for the last few weeks/months, I have changed my mind and will vote for Obama.

After Obama beat Hillary I was all for Mcain, but the only thing I ever hear from Mcain/repub voters is "my money, my money, me,me,me"
Enough is enough, its time to start ponying up for anybody who makes more than $90,000/yr.

Most people around here raise families on between $30-75,000/yr. and the ones making $75 are considered to be living the good life.

You people(greedy) may not like it, but Obama's gettin in and its gonna happen. Time to start taking care of each other as a whole society.

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for. 8-)

This is probably one of the most uninformed posts related to government and financial matters that I've ever read.

Do you think that I just got things handed to me in my life? :shock:

For heavens sake. My father was a beautician and my mother was a housewife. My parents paid $18k for their first house in 1976, and I worked my ASS off in school for scholarships. I spent $60k on a bachelors degree from the University of Wisconsin, and well in excess of $100k for a Masters degree from Columbia. I studied and studied and studied to pass the CPA exam.

Then, I quit my job in the oil industry and opened a retail store. I grew three concept retail stores from one little mall kiosk to 14 stores in 5 years working 70+ hours a week including weekends and holidays. I put up with countless hours of crap from uninformed people, and hired those very uneducated workers you talked about Gex. 3 weeks after they were working for me, they thought they knew how to run my business better than I did. After 7 years of that, I sold the business, and made a down payment on a tax practice.

I ran that practice jointly with a parter for 5 years, and we doubled the size of that practice, working an average of 80 hours per week. When I sold back to my partner, we were doing more tax returns out of tax season than we were during it....

I moved my family half way across the country so my wife could attend law school. She's in her third year, and will graduate in May 2009. We will spend in excess of $125k on her law school education. This doesn't include the costs of her bachelors degree and her masters degree.

So, considering your rant from above, I'm GREEDY? WTF?

I'm not "entitled" to keep what I earned and what I risked? Are you crazy? Maybe you should move to Switzerland, or Denmark. wealth redistribution seems to work out ok over there.

I give more to charity each year than I made annually my first three years out of school. I tithe faithfully to my church. I volunteer my time in Christian and non Christian events in my community. I'm a 10 gallon blood donor. I serve on local boards. And I'M GREEDY? <sigh>

You sir, are completely NUTS. If the rest of the world feels like you do, yes, we're screwed. But if you, and the rest of the $50k wage earners would get OFF THEIR ASS instead of looking for a damn handout, we might get somewhere in this country.

Christ. I'm off my soapbox now. :roll:

[Scott Campbell]

After Obama beat Hillary I was all for Mcain, but the only thing I ever hear from Mcain/repub voters is "my money, my money, me,me,me"




Huh? Why shouldn't people keep their own money? Its theirs. Not yours.

[Scott Campbell]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.



How bout it's time that your and your underachieving retail brethren get off your lazy asses and find real jobs or start real businesses so that you're able contribute more to society? Go make some of your own fucking money, and keep you greedy little paws off mine.

[retailguy]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.



How bout it's time that your and your underachieving retail brethren get off your lazy asses and find real jobs or start real businesses so that you're able contribute more to society? Go make some of your own fucking money, and keep you greedy little paws off mine.

lol. :P So, YOU'RE the greedy one, eh? :wink:

[Scott Campbell]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.



How bout it's time that your and your underachieving retail brethren get off your lazy asses and find real jobs or start real businesses so that you're able contribute more to society? Go make some of your own fucking money, and keep you greedy little paws off mine.

lol. :P So, YOU'RE the greedy one, eh? :wink:


I'm really at a loss. Since when is asking to keep my own money being greedy?

[mraynrand]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.



How bout it's time that your and your underachieving retail brethren get off your lazy asses and find real jobs or start real businesses so that you're able contribute more to society? Go make some of your own fucking money, and keep you greedy little paws off mine.

lol. :P So, YOU'RE the greedy one, eh? :wink:


I'm really at a loss. Since when is asking to keep my own money being greedy?

It's not your money. It's societies' money. Without the rest of society you would not have any money. Your wealth is built on the backs of others - mostly less fortunate than you - people born without the intrinsic ability and motivation that you luckily have. You have no right to your earnings because they all came as a result of a lucky draw in the game of genetic dice and from being lucky in what family and country you were born in - you should also be flogged.

[Scott Campbell]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.



How bout it's time that your and your underachieving retail brethren get off your lazy asses and find real jobs or start real businesses so that you're able contribute more to society? Go make some of your own fucking money, and keep you greedy little paws off mine.

lol. :P So, YOU'RE the greedy one, eh? :wink:


I'm really at a loss. Since when is asking to keep my own money being greedy?

It's not your money. It's societies' money. Without the rest of society you would not have any money. Your wealth is built on the backs of others - mostly less fortunate than you - people born without the intrinsic ability and motivation that you luckily have. You have no right to your earnings because they all came as a result of a lucky draw in the game of genetic dice and from being lucky in what family and country you were born in - you should also be flogged.


That's another crazy ass liberal rallying cry. This society wasn't built on the backs of societies under performers. It was built on the backs of previous generations of super achievers.

[mraynrand]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.



How bout it's time that your and your underachieving retail brethren get off your lazy asses and find real jobs or start real businesses so that you're able contribute more to society? Go make some of your own fucking money, and keep you greedy little paws off mine.

lol. :P So, YOU'RE the greedy one, eh? :wink:


I'm really at a loss. Since when is asking to keep my own money being greedy?

It's not your money. It's societies' money. Without the rest of society you would not have any money. Your wealth is built on the backs of others - mostly less fortunate than you - people born without the intrinsic ability and motivation that you luckily have. You have no right to your earnings because they all came as a result of a lucky draw in the game of genetic dice and from being lucky in what family and country you were born in - you should also be flogged.


That's another crazy ass liberal rallying cry. This society wasn't built on the backs of societies under performers. It was built on the backs of previous generations of super achievers.

You're...you're...you're just a selfish BAD MAN!!!!!

[Fosco33]

Not sure where to start.

I live in CA - where the cost of living is twice that in WI.... so why does gross salary matter so much to you. In WI, I'd be 'living the good life.' as you call it. As it stands, I have an apt, 10 yr old car and a 401(k) that is evaporating because of stupid morons borrowing too much money and a failed fiscal conservative government bailing out banks that allowed it to happen.

Besides, Obama 'said' he wouldn't raise taxes for families making under $150K. I feel fortunate because I got married and had a daughter this year - otherwise more of MY paycheck would go to the stupid people (above). Remind me why I should pay into two insolvent gov't programs that I won't see a dime of and I'll stop my bitching.


"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship." (emphasis mine - he continues...)

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these
nations always progressed through the following sequence
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage "

[Scott Campbell]

You know, it's funny how some of these people think we should slice up the golden goose into little pieces so that everybody can have their fair share. The problem is, it ain't going to lay anymore golden eggs if you kill it.

[mraynrand]

You know, it's funny how some of these people think we should slice up the golden goose into little pieces so that everybody can have their fair share. The problem is, it ain't going to lay anymore golden eggs if you kill it.


MMMMMMMmmmmmmm...Golden Goose. My one weakness!

http://blog.menupirate.com/images/drooling_homer.png

[digitaldean]

I moved my family half way across the country so my wife could attend law school. She's in her third year, and will graduate in May 2009. We will spend in excess of $125k on her law school education. This doesn't include the costs of her bachelors degree and her masters degree.

So, considering your rant from above, I'm GREEDY? WTF?

I'm not "entitled" to keep what I earned and what I risked? Are you crazy? Maybe you should move to Switzerland, or Denmark. wealth redistribution seems to work out ok over there.

I give more to charity each year than I made annually my first three years out of school. I tithe faithfully to my church. I volunteer my time in Christian and non Christian events in my community. I'm a 10 gallon blood donor. I serve on local boards. And I'M GREEDY? <sigh>

You sir, are completely NUTS. If the rest of the world feels like you do, yes, we're screwed. But if you, and the rest of the $50k wage earners would get OFF THEIR ASS instead of looking for a damn handout, we might get somewhere in this country.

Christ. I'm off my soapbox now. :roll:

RG,
:bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap: :bclap:
Thank you. Work hard, spend less, tax less, be responsible yourself to get ahead and don't depend on the gov't? These words are anathema to liberals or those who don't have the drive to get ahead.
I still work 2 jobs and actually live on a budget to make sure my family gets what is needed. I swear I'm gonna wretch if I hear someone clamor for another federal stimulus check.

[Freak Out]

Major circle jerk going on here.......

Liberals don't have the drive to get ahead? Come on man.....you are smarter than that....you are right?

[texaspackerbacker]

Well after reading these and other arguments for the last few weeks/months, I have changed my mind and will vote for Obama.

After Obama beat Hillary I was all for Mcain, but the only thing I ever hear from Mcain/repub voters is "my money, my money, me,me,me"
Enough is enough, its time to start ponying up for anybody who makes more than $90,000/yr.

Most people around here raise families on between $30-75,000/yr. and the ones making $75 are considered to be living the good life.

You people(greedy) may not like it, but Obama's gettin in and its gonna happen. Time to start taking care of each other as a whole society.

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

Well, gex, I'm tempted to take your post and rub Howard's nose in it, along with a couple of other "fairness" Republicans whose piss poor rhetoric plays right into the hands of the "class warfare" crap promoted by Obama and company.

Instead, however, I will accuse you, gex, of being similar to so many you see in these focus groups or whatever--disingenuous people claiming to be undecided or even leaning toward McCain--but wait! They/you have seen the light! Suddenly, Obama goes from being "that one" to "THE One".

A big YEAH RIGHT to that!

Your posting history belies your previous pro-McCain claims.

[digitaldean]

These words are anathema to liberals or those who don't have the drive to get ahead.

FreakOut,

Read the post. It says liberals OR those who don't have the drive. Yes, there are plenty of liberals who have the drive to succeed. Partial's idol, Steve Jobs or MS's Bill Gates are prime examples of social liberals that are pretty driven individuals.

Saying that liberals don't is equivalent to saying conservatives are all greedy and don't care about their fellow man.

The idea of "fairness" in the politcal arena has always come under the guise of handouts from the gov't. Given the current horrid spending record in D.C., I don't trust either party as far as I can throw them. So the less they have a hand in the regulation/taxation of the small business sector (except for worker / consumer safety) the better.

[RashanGary]

I lean toward less taxing, but there is a point where I believe wealth begets wealth to a point where a person is no longer really "earning" their money, but rather just watching it roll up while others have to scratch to get there. REally though, I think RG is right here but misdirected. He did all of this in a tax curved society with social programs. NOthing even close to a flat tax nation. I believe a majority of the very wealthy were buisness owners and self made. My grandpa was a farmer, then owned a shop. He did pretty well, but worked his ass off his whole life. I've always looked up to him and tried to mimic his work ethic. I believe if there was just a flat tax, things would slowy, at first, transfer from the hands of the many to the few. Eventually the many would be borrowing from the few, with the few having all of the power and when the borrowing snowballed so far it would all blow up.


I'm cool with everyone earing their money so long as the path to the top is very possible and the path from the top to the bottom is very possible. When those who work hard and make good decisions are not rewarded, there is a problem. When those who do nothing get rewarded there is a problem.

I think the Obama is stealing from the rich to give to the poor drama is overplayed. He wants it to be just as easy for a kid from a poor family to get a college education as a kid from a wealthy family. The cream will rise to the top. Nothing wrong with that. I don't even have a problem with health care being made more affordable to all so long as it's kept private and not govt run. Right now those who need health care will get it if they show up to a hospital and need care (regardless of if they can pay or not). If they do not pay, we all do anyway. What's the difference? Just makes it less expensive for a typical family.

As much as conservatives swear up and down a tax curve ruins our society, look around. We've had it since FDR and all we've done is prosper like no other as do most of the other nations with a similar form of government.

Here's a list of countries with flat taxes

Bulgaria [15]
Albania [16] [17]
Czech Republic[18]
Estonia [19][20][21]
Georgia [22][21]
Guernsey [23]
Kazakhstan [24]
Iceland [25] [23] [26] Iceland's system differs from the Hall-Rabushka flat tax by taxing investment income and allowing numerous exceptions.[27]
Iraq [28] [29] [30] It is not clear how effectively the Iraqi tax is being collected in practice.
Jersey [31]
Kyrgyzstan [23]
Latvia [21]
Lithuania [32][21]
Macedonia [33] [23]
Mongolia [34]
Montenegro [35]
Mauritius [23]
Romania [21]
Russia [36][21]
Serbia [37]
Slovakia [21]
Ukraine [38][21]


Not exactly your who's who of prosperous nations. You see a lot of corruption and extreme numbers of very very poor with very small numbers of very very rich. If you start at the bottom in these countries, there you are. Not exactly your "get what you put in" utopia. Very similar to what happened to our country in the great depression. More like extreme poverty with almost no way out. Our system right now is the socialist curve and it has allowed poeple like RG to work his way to the top. Nothing wrong with that.

Obama wants to make sure our governmetn isn't like one of thse. He wants the spot we end up in life to be indicative of our capabilities and drives, not based on where our parents start us off. That's pretty much how it is now and he's pretty much holding status quo with some economy stimulating and opportunity expanding quirks.

[mraynrand]

I swear I'm gonna wretch if I hear someone clamor for another federal stimulus check.

Start wretching. It's already in the works. The Dems are writing up a 300 Billion dollar stimulus package so that it will be ready for Obama to sign next January. With a filibuster proof Senate, they will shove it right down their throat, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Oh, wait, you can vote for Bob Barr. That will work.

[RashanGary]

I swear I'm gonna wretch if I hear someone clamor for another federal stimulus check.

Start wretching. It's already in the works. The Dems are writing up a 300 Billion dollar stimulus package so that it will be ready for Obama to sign next January. With a filibuster proof Senate, they will shove it right down their throat, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Oh, wait, you can vote for Bob Barr. That will work.

:lol:

[bobblehead]

Well after reading these and other arguments for the last few weeks/months, I have changed my mind and will vote for Obama.

After Obama beat Hillary I was all for Mcain, but the only thing I ever hear from Mcain/repub voters is "my money, my money, me,me,me"
Enough is enough, its time to start ponying up for anybody who makes more than $90,000/yr.

Most people around here raise families on between $30-75,000/yr. and the ones making $75 are considered to be living the good life.

You people(greedy) may not like it, but Obama's gettin in and its gonna happen. Time to start taking care of each other as a whole society.

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for. 8-)

This is probably one of the most uninformed posts related to government and financial matters that I've ever read.

Do you think that I just got things handed to me in my life? :shock:

For heavens sake. My father was a beautician and my mother was a housewife. My parents paid $18k for their first house in 1976, and I worked my ASS off in school for scholarships. I spent $60k on a bachelors degree from the University of Wisconsin, and well in excess of $100k for a Masters degree from Columbia. I studied and studied and studied to pass the CPA exam.

Then, I quit my job in the oil industry and opened a retail store. I grew three concept retail stores from one little mall kiosk to 14 stores in 5 years working 70+ hours a week including weekends and holidays. I put up with countless hours of crap from uninformed people, and hired those very uneducated workers you talked about Gex. 3 weeks after they were working for me, they thought they knew how to run my business better than I did. After 7 years of that, I sold the business, and made a down payment on a tax practice.

I ran that practice jointly with a parter for 5 years, and we doubled the size of that practice, working an average of 80 hours per week. When I sold back to my partner, we were doing more tax returns out of tax season than we were during it....

I moved my family half way across the country so my wife could attend law school. She's in her third year, and will graduate in May 2009. We will spend in excess of $125k on her law school education. This doesn't include the costs of her bachelors degree and her masters degree.

So, considering your rant from above, I'm GREEDY? WTF?

I'm not "entitled" to keep what I earned and what I risked? Are you crazy? Maybe you should move to Switzerland, or Denmark. wealth redistribution seems to work out ok over there.

I give more to charity each year than I made annually my first three years out of school. I tithe faithfully to my church. I volunteer my time in Christian and non Christian events in my community. I'm a 10 gallon blood donor. I serve on local boards. And I'M GREEDY? <sigh>

You sir, are completely NUTS. If the rest of the world feels like you do, yes, we're screwed. But if you, and the rest of the $50k wage earners would get OFF THEIR ASS instead of looking for a damn handout, we might get somewhere in this country.

Christ. I'm off my soapbox now. :roll:

sounds like you got lucky...and like gex said, you need to start helping out the less fortunate.

[texaspackerbacker]

I lean toward less taxing, but there is a point where I believe wealth begets wealth to a point where a person is no longer really "earning" their money, but rather just watching it roll up while others have to scratch to get there. REally though, I think RG is right here but misdirected. He did all of this in a tax curved society with social programs. NOthing even close to a flat tax nation. I believe a majority of the very wealthy were buisness owners and self made. My grandpa was a farmer, then owned a shop. He did pretty well, but worked his ass off his whole life. I've always looked up to him and tried to mimic his work ethic. I believe if there was just a flat tax, things would slowy, at first, transfer from the hands of the many to the few. Eventually the many would be borrowing from the few, with the few having all of the power and when the borrowing snowballed so far it would all blow up.
.

Justin, what you are describing is a ZER0-SUM situation, also known as STATIC ANALYSIS. A Free Enterprise Capitalist economy is NOT statis. It is DYNAMIC.

Zero-Sum is like a pie, where if one person's piece gets bigger, other people's pieces necessarily have to get smaller. That's just NOT the way it is in our economy. There is DYNAMISM. If Bill Gates or Stever Jobs or your grandfather or corporate America get richer, there is plenty of opportunity for everybody else to succeed too and enhance their own wealth.

That's the way it is supposed to work. That's the way it DOES work--if the damned liberals just don't get in the way with tax increases or contrived "crises".

[bobblehead]

JH...what "progressive" tax rate is too high? 100%..90...80, throw out a number. You can cite poor corrupt countries all you want, but more than a tax structure goes into prosperity.

Let me state this one more time...many accurate economic studies have conclude that the top marginal rate should be 19% and anything at any level after that has negative consequences on jobs and growth. That is an economic fact. So bottom line is this...it doesn't matter how many people pay 0, 10 or 15%, the minute you go over 19% its a net negative.

So vote for obama if you think punishing those making over 90k is somehow going to make your life better (hint, it won't). Vote for mccain if you like the direction the republican brand has been heading (hey, they managed to spend enough to lose their majority). Me, I'm looking to the future, but more importantly I have already begun working on opening part of a business in thailand because taxes and labor are much friendlier to me here....but hey, I don't currently make over 90k taxable so I'm one of the good guys.

[mraynrand]

Me, I'm looking to the future, but more importantly I have already begun working on opening part of a business in thailand because taxes and labor are much friendlier to me here....but hey, I don't currently make over 90k taxable so I'm one of the good guys.

Just don't try to bring any of that Thai shit back here, or Obama will tax the hell out of it!

BTW, you opening a brain surgery clinic? Ty has his $2500 first class air ticket ready to take advantage of those reduced Thai healthcare rates.


EDIT: P.S. good luck with your new business. Hell of a time to start!

[RashanGary]

I believe education should be free as long as you're pulling grades. I believe health care should be affordable for all working Americans. If I have to pay a little extra, I'm happy to do it. I'll vote Obama.

However, I'm not a fan of raising taxes (or even having taxes) on buisness and industry that does it's buisness in the global market. I believe every dollar we take from China, Europe or Russia's economy and put into ours is a dollar that makes all of us better. If people get filthy rich by selling stuff to other countries, GREAT!!



I believe the, "a progressive tax stops people from getting to the top" arguement is just BS. Ever since we've had a progressive tax, all we've done is watch Americans rise from severe poverty to the top of our nations economic ladder. It's a proven, effective systsem. The last time we had a flat tax we crashed right into the great depression. If you were at the top, there you were. If you were at the bottom, there you were. No matter how hard you worked. The countries that run it now are poverty stricken. It's not nearly as great in practice as it is in theory but go ahead, beat yoru little drum. Obama is going to win and that's that. Deal with it.

[mmmdk]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

Those are called college students, college dropouts, and high school grads. Your reasons on voting for Obama are laughable. In Rhinelander, the only people who make decent money are small business owners and contactors/tradesman. You more than most people should know what Obamas tax policies will mean to your local economy

I get you, GoPackGo, you're a 'ME' guy, you're not a 'team world guy' - I drink California Zinfandel to your personal downfall. Harsh words, I know, but I just believe karma will prevail.

47 mill., 47 mill people that is...

[Fosco33]

47 mill., 47 mill people that is...

45M uninsured, 25M underinsured - population of 301M = 26%

The current definition of underinsured uses varying rules - like spending 10% of income on hc - or having deductibles of 5% of income (some due to outlier cases by year and some due to high deductible plans).

Of the uninsured - 41% are between 19 and 34 - when young people are not covered by parents or the State (usually) and don't get jobs (that come with insurance). Part of being responsible is getting a job.

21% are under 18 and could be eligible for most state/local coverage. Some of these are poor kids with ignorant/lazy parents that don't apply for Medicaid. Part of being a responsible parent.

Also - 28% of uninsured are in 300%+ FPL brackets - and not 'poor' and could afford employer provided insurance - their choice/responsibility.

And lastely - 21% of uninsured are not US citizens! And even then there are programs like CMS 1011 that provide coverage - and again EMTALA that provides ER service without questions.

You can't double count the above stats - but it clearly shows there is a small window of opportunity for society to further assist on insurance coverage. Young people without insurance (not kids) don't use much/any hc and the outliers are often covered by charity. And those that are uninsured may get charity (typically 3-5% of hospitals gross charges are written off to charity).

It's a 'problem' by definition only in my book. Many of the solutions go back to responsibility.

[digitaldean]

I swear I'm gonna wretch if I hear someone clamor for another federal stimulus check.

Start wretching. It's already in the works. The Dems are writing up a 300 Billion dollar stimulus package so that it will be ready for Obama to sign next January. With a filibuster proof Senate, they will shove it right down their throat, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Oh, wait, you can vote for Bob Barr. That will work.

No I threw my vote away before for Perot in 1992. Idealism works in the fairy tales.

I know the next 4 years we will be stuck with a supermajority in both House & Senate. If the Messiah's plans work, great, but I'd stand more of a chance bench pressing my pickup truck.

[Partial]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

Those are called college students, college dropouts, and high school grads. Your reasons on voting for Obama are laughable. In Rhinelander, the only people who make decent money are small business owners and contactors/tradesman. You more than most people should know what Obamas tax policies will mean to your local economy


They should help since he is going out of his way to help out small businesses.

How? By astronomically raising their taxes?

[arcilite]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

Those are called college students, college dropouts, and high school grads. Your reasons on voting for Obama are laughable. In Rhinelander, the only people who make decent money are small business owners and contactors/tradesman. You more than most people should know what Obamas tax policies will mean to your local economy


They should help since he is going out of his way to help out small businesses.

How? By astronomically raising their taxes?

The opposite. But believe what you want.

[Partial]

Well, do you have any evidence to the contrary? My parents have tax documentation from the clinton years and the bush years... I'll give you one guess as to when they were taxed more.

[Partial]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

Those are called college students, college dropouts, and high school grads. Your reasons on voting for Obama are laughable. In Rhinelander, the only people who make decent money are small business owners and contactors/tradesman. You more than most people should know what Obamas tax policies will mean to your local economy


They should help since he is going out of his way to help out small businesses.

How? By astronomically raising their taxes?

The opposite. But believe what you want.

oh, ok. Now I'm convinced.

[arcilite]

Well, do you have any evidence to the contrary? My parents have tax documentation from the clinton years and the bush years... I'll give you one guess as to when they were taxed more.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:YsCl9Z5Be-MJ:www.barackobama.com/pdf/SmallBusi
nessFINAL.pdf+obama+small+business+plan&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

[Partial]

Well, do you have any evidence to the contrary? My parents have tax documentation from the clinton years and the bush years... I'll give you one guess as to when they were taxed more.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:YsCl9Z5Be-MJ:www.barackobama.com
/pdf/SmallBusinessFINAL.pdf+obama+small+business+plan&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Yeah, because I'm really going to believe what he says now. Anyone can talk. Few people walk. Clinton talked and talked and talked about low taxes. Then he passed the biggest increase in taxation ever. Will Obama? That remains to be seen. But, history is surely not in his favor.

[GoPackGo]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

Those are called college students, college dropouts, and high school grads. Your reasons on voting for Obama are laughable. In Rhinelander, the only people who make decent money are small business owners and contactors/tradesman. You more than most people should know what Obamas tax policies will mean to your local economy

I get you, GoPackGo, you're a 'ME' guy, you're not a 'team world guy' - I drink California Zinfandel to your personal downfall. Harsh words, I know, but I just believe karma will prevail.

47 mill., 47 mill people that is...

I've worked retail, served, cooked, and worked behind a bar. I know what Gex is talking about. If you ever want to make any real money you have to get out of those jobs. They are temporary jobs with flexible schedules. Thats why people work them. They shouldn't be careers. My personal downfalls? whats that supposed to mean?

[retailguy]

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

Those are called college students, college dropouts, and high school grads. Your reasons on voting for Obama are laughable. In Rhinelander, the only people who make decent money are small business owners and contactors/tradesman. You more than most people should know what Obamas tax policies will mean to your local economy

I get you, GoPackGo, you're a 'ME' guy, you're not a 'team world guy' - I drink California Zinfandel to your personal downfall. Harsh words, I know, but I just believe karma will prevail.

47 mill., 47 mill people that is...

Michael,

I usually stand up for your right to voice your opinion, but not in this case.

Please take your elitist BS and jam it where the sun doesn't shine.

You have just proven that you do not understand the difference between Europe and America.

Denmark has and continues to have a socialistic form of Goverment. While I realize that your "elitist" views are very consistent with your "home country" they don't work here. Both sides of the aisle (one more than the other, but still both) champion personal freedom and CHOICE.

That is one of the many reasons we haven't had "government run health care". People have the "freedom" to choose to cover themselves and their family, or they have the freedom and resulting choice to NOT do that.

Your statistics, as Fosco so rightly pointed out are INCLUSIVE of both types of people. Those who CAN afford health care and choose not to buy it, and those who CANNOT afford it and as a result don't buy it. Is our system perfect? No, not by a long shot. But, Mr. Elite, yours isn't perfect either.

Compared to our care, yours is substandard in both quality and timeliness. Canada, which has a similar system, their residents frequently cross the borders seeking our health care system, and the care it provides. There are many doctors within a 2 hour drive of the border, that SPECIALIZE in providing health care to Canadians who are more than willing to pay for it. Maybe, instead of "spreading utopia", you should work on fixing what ailes your health care system.

I recocgnize that we're viewed as "less intelligent" and "less cultured" than our European bretheren, but we are also envied. Maybe you should focus more on why you envy us, rather than how "smart" and cultured" you folks find yourself. I am confident that there is a message there, IF AND ONLY IF, you find yourself willing to admit that you don't know everything.

May you choke on that Zinfindel tonight, just enough, that it wipes the "smug" attitude off of your face.

[retailguy]

I believe education should be free as long as you're pulling grades. I believe health care should be affordable for all working Americans. If I have to pay a little extra, I'm happy to do it. I'll vote Obama.

However, I'm not a fan of raising taxes (or even having taxes) on buisness and industry that does it's buisness in the global market. I believe every dollar we take from China, Europe or Russia's economy and put into ours is a dollar that makes all of us better. If people get filthy rich by selling stuff to other countries, GREAT!!



I believe the, "a progressive tax stops people from getting to the top" arguement is just BS. Ever since we've had a progressive tax, all we've done is watch Americans rise from severe poverty to the top of our nations economic ladder. It's a proven, effective systsem. The last time we had a flat tax we crashed right into the great depression. If you were at the top, there you were. If you were at the bottom, there you were. No matter how hard you worked. The countries that run it now are poverty stricken. It's not nearly as great in practice as it is in theory but go ahead, beat yoru little drum. Obama is going to win and that's that. Deal with it.

JH,

I've been thinking most of the day how to respond to your two posts. Having met you, I have a small understanding of why you think the way that you think.

You are merging two issues here, that at least in my case, doesn't work. I am not running around "supporting" nor "clamoring" for the "fair tax". When looked through the "fairness lens" and in "theory" it probably is the right thing to do. Theory doesn't always work in the real world. The fair tax, I think, is one of those things.

To a "certain extent", I'm ok with the progressive income tax. I certainly pay more than my fair share today, but when I was your age, I didn't pay much of anything. Then Clinton got into office, and I paid significantly more, but I'll get there in a minute.

When I was your age, I was able to take that money, and use it to make more money. I get that part of your argument.

However, that came with another thing called RESPONSIBILITY. If I'd have screwed every pretty girl I saw without using my brain and some birth control, then, I'd wind up with a little bundle of joy, and a lifetime of responsibility and expenses before I was equipped to handle it.

If I had to rush out and buy the "latest" greatest car, or a boat, or 4 wheelers or, whatever, then I wasted that opportunity that I was given. It is a two part deal, and you're only looking at the first part of it.

Do you realize that, today, the most expensive car I've ever owned cost $10k? I've owned exactly TWO cars in my life that cost that much money. My current car is 9 years old, and has 138k miles on it. I have owned it for 5 years.

I have always lived well below my means and have saved money for both retirement and for other things. I haven't made a car payment since 1991, and God willing, I'll never make another. I lived most of my life on roughly 70% of my take home pay. I made SACRIFICES then so I'd have something today. Now, several in this thread think it should be taken away. It is utter bullshit. Class warfare at it's worse.

When I owned my tax business, it was a hobby of mine to compare the lives people live and the choices we make. One year, I inserted a line regarding automobiles. I asked make and model, and payment information. I learned that of my clients, 60% of them drove a more expensive automobile than I did, and 3% had a higher income level than I did! Think about that. Think hard.

My clients were and continue to be saddled with car payments that come with INTEREST. That interest cost goes to Bank of America, and doesn't benefit them directly. They made a CHOICE to live above their means. Then, they're told by idiots like OBAMA that I'm a greedy evil bastard who deserves to pay more! Still thinking? I hope so.

Go, vote for Obama. He's gonna provide change. You CAN believe in that. But, at the end of the day, I don't think you're going to like it as much as you think.

You Betcha! :wink:

[HowardRoark]

Well, gex, I'm tempted to take your post and rub Howard's nose in it, along with a couple of other "fairness" Republicans whose piss poor rhetoric plays right into the hands of the "class warfare" crap promoted by Obama and company.

Tex. Please do not refer to me anymore in your posts, clearly you don't have the ability to understand my writing. I have NEVER claimed any of this to be a fairness issue. Ever. What the fuck do you think I menat when I wrote "fairness shmarness"? It's ALL about a system that works best for humans. By any definition it is NOT fair......but I don't care! Life ain't fair.

I DO NOT play the fairness card at all.

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, gex, I'm tempted to take your post and rub Howard's nose in it, along with a couple of other "fairness" Republicans whose piss poor rhetoric plays right into the hands of the "class warfare" crap promoted by Obama and company.

Tex. Please do not refer to me anymore in your posts, clearly you don't have the ability to understand my writing. I have NEVER claimed any of this to be a fairness issue. Ever. What the fuck do you think I menat when I wrote "fairness shmarness"? It's ALL about a system that works best for humans. By any definition it is NOT fair......but I don't care! Life ain't fair.

I DO NOT play the fairness card at all.

Howard, you're transparent as glass.

Furthermore, you're actually right about 73% of the time. It you are sensitive about being "referred to", then stop being wrong that other 27% of the time.

The worst thing about you is that you tend to validate the class warfare rhetoric that the leftists are so fond of.

[Partial]

Major circle jerk going on here.......

Liberals don't have the drive to get ahead? Come on man.....you are smarter than that....you are right?

Not all liberals... but the proof is in the pudding man. If you were poor, would you rather get more money handed to you or less? Who would honestly take less?

If you could live comfortably and not work, would you do it? Plenty of these people do just that. Yes, comfortably is a matter of perspective.

[bobblehead]

I believe education should be free as long as you're pulling grades. I believe health care should be affordable for all working Americans. If I have to pay a little extra, I'm happy to do it. I'll vote Obama.

However, I'm not a fan of raising taxes (or even having taxes) on buisness and industry that does it's buisness in the global market. I believe every dollar we take from China, Europe or Russia's economy and put into ours is a dollar that makes all of us better. If people get filthy rich by selling stuff to other countries, GREAT!!



I believe the, "a progressive tax stops people from getting to the top" arguement is just BS. Ever since we've had a progressive tax, all we've done is watch Americans rise from severe poverty to the top of our nations economic ladder. It's a proven, effective systsem. The last time we had a flat tax we crashed right into the great depression. If you were at the top, there you were. If you were at the bottom, there you were. No matter how hard you worked. The countries that run it now are poverty stricken. It's not nearly as great in practice as it is in theory but go ahead, beat yoru little drum. Obama is going to win and that's that. Deal with it.

I am dealing with it weren't you listening?? I am moving a guys corp to thailand....and his 128 jobs. The great depression had NOTHING to do with taxation, and progressive taxation is a bad thing whether you want to believe it or not....I love it when libs say deal with it as though we have no choice. Sort of like when the french went to a 35 hour work weak and told business to deal with it...until their economy went from 5th in the world to somewhere in the teens.

[bobblehead]

I swear I'm gonna wretch if I hear someone clamor for another federal stimulus check.

Start wretching. It's already in the works. The Dems are writing up a 300 Billion dollar stimulus package so that it will be ready for Obama to sign next January. With a filibuster proof Senate, they will shove it right down their throat, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Oh, wait, you can vote for Bob Barr. That will work.

No I threw my vote away before for Perot in 1992. Idealism works in the fairy tales.

I know the next 4 years we will be stuck with a supermajority in both House & Senate. If the Messiah's plans work, great, but I'd stand more of a chance bench pressing my pickup truck.

that vote got us the contract with america when republicans realized what we actually want...it wasn't wasted.

[bobblehead]

Well, do you have any evidence to the contrary? My parents have tax documentation from the clinton years and the bush years... I'll give you one guess as to when they were taxed more.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:YsCl9Z5Be-MJ:www.barackobama.com/pdf/SmallBusi
nessFINAL.pdf+obama+small+business+plan&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Invest in Women-Owned Small Businesses: Women are majority owners of more than 28 percent of U.S. businesses, but lead less than 4 percent of venture capital-backed firms. Women business owners are more likely than white male business owners to have their loan applications denied. Barack Obama and Joe Biden encourage investment in women-owned businesses, providing more support to women business owners and reducing discrimination in lending. To create greater opportunities for women business owners who would like to do business with the federal government, Obama and Biden will implement the Women Owned Business contracting program that was signed into law by President Bill Clinton, but has yet to be implemented by the Bush Administration.

Increasing Minority Access to Capital: Access to venture capital is critically important to the development of minority-owned businesses. Yet there has been a growing gap between the amounts of venture capital available to minority-owned small businesses compared to other small businesses. Less than 1 percent of the $250 billion in venture capital dollars invested annually nationwide has been directed to the country’s 4.4 million minority business owners. And in recent years, there has been a significant decline in the share of Small Business Investment Company financings that have gone to minority-owned and women-owned businesses. In order to increase their size, capacity, and ability to do business with the federal government, and to compete in the open market, minority firms need greater access to venture capital investment, as well as greater access to business loans. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will strengthen Small Business Administration programs that provide capital to minority-owned businesses, support outreach programs that help minority business owners apply for loans, and work to encourage the growth and capacity of minority firms
==================================================
oh...i get it, he is going to CHOOSE who is elligible to run a small business based on skin color and sex....sounds pretty rascist to me. Actually it sounds much like deciding who is elligible to have a mortgage based on skin color...that worked out stellar.

[gex]

:D

[Deputy Nutz]

Major circle jerk going on here.......

Liberals don't have the drive to get ahead? Come on man.....you are smarter than that....you are right?

Not all liberals... but the proof is in the pudding man. If you were poor, would you rather get more money handed to you or less? Who would honestly take less?

If you could live comfortably and not work, would you do it? Plenty of these people do just that. Yes, comfortably is a matter of perspective.

this goes back to the first post by Gex but I will Partial's quote. If taxes get raised, who gets all of this fat cash? Stimulus Checks can and will be handed out again, but how is this money going to generate more money for America? How is this going to get the little guy ahead? More grant money to people that can't fill out the application anyways for grants? Really I want to know how me paying more taxes is going to lessen the burden on the woman serving my my milkshake who doesn't pay taxes anyways..

The government will just spend more of our tax dollars on their bullshit, call it a war, call it social welfare spending, call it whatever you want, our government and the powers of our centralized government is far to big as it is to accept an increase in tax dollars.

[gex]

:D

[SkinBasket]

:D

http://i.slickdeals.net/images/smilies/emot-LMAO.gif

[Deputy Nutz]

:D

http://i.slickdeals.net/images/smilies/emot-LMAO.gif

Anal grease.

[gex]

:D

http://i.slickdeals.net/images/smilies/emot-LMAO.gif :evil:

[wist43]

Have any of you ever read the U.S. Constitution???

Wow...

Democracy is a horrible form of government. Always leads to mobocracy/tyranny. Which is why our founders gave us a Republic.

A Republic, a true Republic, PROTECTS THE CITIZENS FROM GOVERNMENT!!!!

The U.S. Constitution is designed to limit government... to protect the citizens FROM GOVERNMENT!!!!

"THE ESSENCE OF FREEDOM - IS THE LIMITATION OF GOVERNMENT".

McCain would be bad enough, but the idea of Obama is enough to make any freedom loving person VOMIT!!!!!

Unbelievable ignorance... Truly sad.

[ThunderDan]

Major circle jerk going on here.......

Liberals don't have the drive to get ahead? Come on man.....you are smarter than that....you are right?

Not all liberals... but the proof is in the pudding man. If you were poor, would you rather get more money handed to you or less? Who would honestly take less?

If you could live comfortably and not work, would you do it? Plenty of these people do just that. Yes, comfortably is a matter of perspective.

this goes back to the first post by Gex but I will Partial's quote. If taxes get raised, who gets all of this fat cash? Stimulus Checks can and will be handed out again, but how is this money going to generate more money for America? How is this going to get the little guy ahead? More grant money to people that can't fill out the application anyways for grants? Really I want to know how me paying more taxes is going to lessen the burden on the woman serving my my milkshake who doesn't pay taxes anyways..

The government will just spend more of our tax dollars on their bullshit, call it a war, call it social welfare spending, call it whatever you want, our government and the powers of our centralized government is far to big as it is to accept an increase in tax dollars.

Nutz-

Let's set this straight right now once and for all.

The stimulus check that some of you got this summer (not me) is a refund of your 2008 taxes that you won't be getting on April 15th 2009. The stimulus check was a tax cut. A lowering of the tax brackets. It should make all conservatives happy that it happened.

You are going to have to enter on your 2008 tax return if you got the refund or not. That way the IRS will know if you get the refund when you file the return or if you already got it.

[HowardRoark]

Major circle jerk going on here.......

Liberals don't have the drive to get ahead? Come on man.....you are smarter than that....you are right?

Not all liberals... but the proof is in the pudding man. If you were poor, would you rather get more money handed to you or less? Who would honestly take less?

If you could live comfortably and not work, would you do it? Plenty of these people do just that. Yes, comfortably is a matter of perspective.

this goes back to the first post by Gex but I will Partial's quote. If taxes get raised, who gets all of this fat cash? Stimulus Checks can and will be handed out again, but how is this money going to generate more money for America? How is this going to get the little guy ahead? More grant money to people that can't fill out the application anyways for grants? Really I want to know how me paying more taxes is going to lessen the burden on the woman serving my my milkshake who doesn't pay taxes anyways..

The government will just spend more of our tax dollars on their bullshit, call it a war, call it social welfare spending, call it whatever you want, our government and the powers of our centralized government is far to big as it is to accept an increase in tax dollars.

Nutz-

Let's set this straight right now once and for all.

The stimulus check that some of you got this summer (not me) is a refund of your 2008 taxes that you won't be getting on April 15th 2009. The stimulus check was a tax cut. A lowering of the tax brackets. It should make all conservatives happy that it happened.

You are going to have to enter on your 2008 tax return if you got the refund or not. That way the IRS will know if you get the refund when you file the return or if you already got it.

Then why didn't I get a refund/tax break?

[Freak Out]

Have any of you ever read the U.S. Constitution???

Wow...

Democracy is a horrible form of government. Always leads to mobocracy/tyranny. Which is why our founders gave us a Republic.

A Republic, a true Republic, PROTECTS THE CITIZENS FROM GOVERNMENT!!!!

The U.S. Constitution is designed to limit government... to protect the citizens FROM GOVERNMENT!!!!

"THE ESSENCE OF FREEDOM - IS THE LIMITATION OF GOVERNMENT".

McCain would be bad enough, but the idea of Obama is enough to make any freedom loving person VOMIT!!!!!

Unbelievable ignorance... Truly sad.

This is why we have guns. :twisted:

Is it time to overthrow the government?

[wist43]

Have any of you ever read the U.S. Constitution???

Wow...

Democracy is a horrible form of government. Always leads to mobocracy/tyranny. Which is why our founders gave us a Republic.

A Republic, a true Republic, PROTECTS THE CITIZENS FROM GOVERNMENT!!!!

The U.S. Constitution is designed to limit government... to protect the citizens FROM GOVERNMENT!!!!

"THE ESSENCE OF FREEDOM - IS THE LIMITATION OF GOVERNMENT".

McCain would be bad enough, but the idea of Obama is enough to make any freedom loving person VOMIT!!!!!

Unbelievable ignorance... Truly sad.

This is why we have guns. :twisted:

Is it time to overthrow the government?

Mobocracy is already here, and the mob wants your guns... in case you haven't noticed, the mob is made up primarily of libs, i.e. democrats.

Aunt Ida who draws the SS check, Farmer Ed who draws the crop subsidy, Abortion Sally who gets funds from HHS to convince your pregnant teen to chop her baby up, the corrupt CEO who cashes the golden parachute check handed to him by the government as the stock of his company plummets.

The People themselves have become corrupt. Our founders maintained that freedom is only sustainable for a moral people. Americans are anything but moral.

Aunt Ida's money was stolen from her long ago, but she has absolutely no problem stealing money from yet to be born generations, afterall, she is "entitled". Try to make that argument in the political arena, or to Aunt Ida herself???

Good luck... she'll have you beat over the head with your own gun, and then force open your wallet at the point of a policeman's gun. In the end, all law is force - a corrupt Aunt Ida couldn't care less how she gets her check.

[mraynrand]

Major circle jerk going on here.......

Liberals don't have the drive to get ahead? Come on man.....you are smarter than that....you are right?

Not all liberals... but the proof is in the pudding man. If you were poor, would you rather get more money handed to you or less? Who would honestly take less?

If you could live comfortably and not work, would you do it? Plenty of these people do just that. Yes, comfortably is a matter of perspective.

this goes back to the first post by Gex but I will Partial's quote. If taxes get raised, who gets all of this fat cash? Stimulus Checks can and will be handed out again, but how is this money going to generate more money for America? How is this going to get the little guy ahead? More grant money to people that can't fill out the application anyways for grants? Really I want to know how me paying more taxes is going to lessen the burden on the woman serving my my milkshake who doesn't pay taxes anyways..

The government will just spend more of our tax dollars on their bullshit, call it a war, call it social welfare spending, call it whatever you want, our government and the powers of our centralized government is far to big as it is to accept an increase in tax dollars.

Nutz-

Let's set this straight right now once and for all.

The stimulus check that some of you got this summer (not me) is a refund of your 2008 taxes that you won't be getting on April 15th 2009. The stimulus check was a tax cut. A lowering of the tax brackets. It should make all conservatives happy that it happened.

You are going to have to enter on your 2008 tax return if you got the refund or not. That way the IRS will know if you get the refund when you file the return or if you already got it.

Then why didn't I get a refund/tax break?

You got Sarah Palin - wasn't that stimulus enough? http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Njc2YzU3MjE4Nzk0YmVlM2ZlMjZkODRiNDA4YmQyODE=

[MJZiggy]

Major circle jerk going on here.......

Liberals don't have the drive to get ahead? Come on man.....you are smarter than that....you are right?

Not all liberals... but the proof is in the pudding man. If you were poor, would you rather get more money handed to you or less? Who would honestly take less?

If you could live comfortably and not work, would you do it? Plenty of these people do just that. Yes, comfortably is a matter of perspective.

this goes back to the first post by Gex but I will Partial's quote. If taxes get raised, who gets all of this fat cash? Stimulus Checks can and will be handed out again, but how is this money going to generate more money for America? How is this going to get the little guy ahead? More grant money to people that can't fill out the application anyways for grants? Really I want to know how me paying more taxes is going to lessen the burden on the woman serving my my milkshake who doesn't pay taxes anyways..

The government will just spend more of our tax dollars on their bullshit, call it a war, call it social welfare spending, call it whatever you want, our government and the powers of our centralized government is far to big as it is to accept an increase in tax dollars.

Nutz-

Let's set this straight right now once and for all.

The stimulus check that some of you got this summer (not me) is a refund of your 2008 taxes that you won't be getting on April 15th 2009. The stimulus check was a tax cut. A lowering of the tax brackets. It should make all conservatives happy that it happened.

You are going to have to enter on your 2008 tax return if you got the refund or not. That way the IRS will know if you get the refund when you file the return or if you already got it.

The stimulus check is listed as income, right? Doesn't that mean they're taxing your tax refund? (and ostensibly possibly putting you in a higher bracket if you're on the edge?) Thanks, George.

[ThunderDan]

Major circle jerk going on here.......

Liberals don't have the drive to get ahead? Come on man.....you are smarter than that....you are right?

Not all liberals... but the proof is in the pudding man. If you were poor, would you rather get more money handed to you or less? Who would honestly take less?

If you could live comfortably and not work, would you do it? Plenty of these people do just that. Yes, comfortably is a matter of perspective.

this goes back to the first post by Gex but I will Partial's quote. If taxes get raised, who gets all of this fat cash? Stimulus Checks can and will be handed out again, but how is this money going to generate more money for America? How is this going to get the little guy ahead? More grant money to people that can't fill out the application anyways for grants? Really I want to know how me paying more taxes is going to lessen the burden on the woman serving my my milkshake who doesn't pay taxes anyways..

The government will just spend more of our tax dollars on their bullshit, call it a war, call it social welfare spending, call it whatever you want, our government and the powers of our centralized government is far to big as it is to accept an increase in tax dollars.

Nutz-

Let's set this straight right now once and for all.

The stimulus check that some of you got this summer (not me) is a refund of your 2008 taxes that you won't be getting on April 15th 2009. The stimulus check was a tax cut. A lowering of the tax brackets. It should make all conservatives happy that it happened.

You are going to have to enter on your 2008 tax return if you got the refund or not. That way the IRS will know if you get the refund when you file the return or if you already got it.

Then why didn't I get a refund/tax break?

Because your Adjust Gross Income was too high and the brackets are phased out.

[ThunderDan]

Major circle jerk going on here.......

Liberals don't have the drive to get ahead? Come on man.....you are smarter than that....you are right?

Not all liberals... but the proof is in the pudding man. If you were poor, would you rather get more money handed to you or less? Who would honestly take less?

If you could live comfortably and not work, would you do it? Plenty of these people do just that. Yes, comfortably is a matter of perspective.

this goes back to the first post by Gex but I will Partial's quote. If taxes get raised, who gets all of this fat cash? Stimulus Checks can and will be handed out again, but how is this money going to generate more money for America? How is this going to get the little guy ahead? More grant money to people that can't fill out the application anyways for grants? Really I want to know how me paying more taxes is going to lessen the burden on the woman serving my my milkshake who doesn't pay taxes anyways..

The government will just spend more of our tax dollars on their bullshit, call it a war, call it social welfare spending, call it whatever you want, our government and the powers of our centralized government is far to big as it is to accept an increase in tax dollars.

Nutz-

Let's set this straight right now once and for all.

The stimulus check that some of you got this summer (not me) is a refund of your 2008 taxes that you won't be getting on April 15th 2009. The stimulus check was a tax cut. A lowering of the tax brackets. It should make all conservatives happy that it happened.

You are going to have to enter on your 2008 tax return if you got the refund or not. That way the IRS will know if you get the refund when you file the return or if you already got it.

The stimulus check is listed as income, right? Doesn't that mean they're taxing your tax refund? (and ostensibly possibly putting you in a higher bracket if you're on the edge?) Thanks, George.

No, the stimulus check is a return of your tax dollars. It is not listed as income. You are going to have to probably check a box so the IRS knows if you got the refund or not.

[MJZiggy]

Oh. Ok, that's better. April is going to suck.

[gex]

:D

[HarveyWallbangers]

Aunt Ida who draws the SS check, Farmer Ed who draws the crop subsidy, Abortion Sally who gets funds from HHS to convince your pregnant teen to chop her baby up, the corrupt CEO who cashes the golden parachute check handed to him by the government as the stock of his company plummets.

Good stuff, wist. You and I agree a lot more on politics than the Packers.

[sheepshead]

"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully," the Democratic presidential candidate wrote in his memoir, "Dreams From My Father." "The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists."


Gee Whiz cant we just anoint him for the next eight years?

[gex]

I like the Obama's idea of making the middle class larger, by bringing down the upper middle and raising the lowest middle.

Let the really rich stay that way, they deserve it way,way more than the upper middle anyways(they really do have more ambition and drive than anyone making $100-200,000/yr) :D

[sheepshead]

Barry's gonna looooose-Barry's gonna looose.....

[Partial]

Well, do you have any evidence to the contrary? My parents have tax documentation from the clinton years and the bush years... I'll give you one guess as to when they were taxed more.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:YsCl9Z5Be-MJ:www.barackobama.com
/pdf/SmallBusinessFINAL.pdf+obama+small+business+plan&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Yeah, because I'm really going to believe what he says now. Anyone can talk. Few people walk. Clinton talked and talked and talked about low taxes. Then he passed the biggest increase in taxation ever. Will Obama? That remains to be seen. But, history is surely not in his favor.

served.

[arcilite]

Barry's gonna looooose-Barry's gonna looose.....

Don't think so... he's leading popular vote and destroying mccain in the electoral vote.

[sheepshead]

you'll see. People are starting to pay attention to the BS, the hate and the cute antics and they are disgusted by it.

[LL2]

Barry's gonna looooose-Barry's gonna looose.....

Don't think so... he's leading popular vote and destroying mccain in the electoral vote.

I'm not sure who is going to win...but I think it will be pretty darn close. Whoever wins will win by 30 electoral votes or less. Also, you can win the popular vote, but still lose. It has happened 3 times in U.S. history.

[arcilite]

you'll see. People are starting to pay attention to the BS, the hate and the cute antics and they are disgusted by it.

The hate? You mean people shouting 'kill him!' 'treason!' at Mccain/Palin rallies when they bring up Obama?

[sheepshead]

you'll see. People are starting to pay attention to the BS, the hate and the cute antics and they are disgusted by it.

The hate? You mean people shouting 'kill him!' 'treason!' at Mccain/Palin rallies when they bring up Obama?

never happened. as per the secret service, not some idiot reporter.

[mraynrand]

you'll see. People are starting to pay attention to the BS, the hate and the cute antics and they are disgusted by it.

The hate? You mean people shouting 'kill him!' 'treason!' at Mccain/Palin rallies when they bring up Obama?

The same person who shouted this crap delivered Lobster and caviar to Obama's hotel room.

[arcilite]

you'll see. People are starting to pay attention to the BS, the hate and the cute antics and they are disgusted by it.

The hate? You mean people shouting 'kill him!' 'treason!' at Mccain/Palin rallies when they bring up Obama?

The same person who shouted this crap delivered Lobster and caviar to Obama's hotel room.

that made me lol

[gex]

lol

[gex]

Well after reading these and other arguments for the last few weeks/months, I have changed my mind and will vote for Obama.

After Obama beat Hillary I was all for Mcain, but the only thing I ever hear from Mcain/repub voters is "my money, my money, me,me,me"
Enough is enough, its time to start ponying up for anybody who makes more than $90,000/yr.

Most people around here raise families on between $30-75,000/yr. and the ones making $75 are considered to be living the good life.

You people(greedy) may not like it, but Obama's gettin in and its gonna happen. Time to start taking care of each other as a whole society.

Btw, people making less than $50,000 working in retail and service are on their feet working their asses off for 10-14 hr shifts. Thats who I'm voting for.

3 more days, get out an vote Obama

[Tyrone Bigguns]

What? Only 3 days? The flyers in Virginia said for Dems to vote on the 5th.

[Fosco33]

If he pushes through amnesty for illegals -- does he have a clear conflict of interest w/ his aunt?

Can't wait to see what else comes out after it's too late... :roll:

[bobblehead]

you'll see. People are starting to pay attention to the BS, the hate and the cute antics and they are disgusted by it.

The hate? You mean people shouting 'kill him!' 'treason!' at Mccain/Palin rallies when they bring up Obama?

That never happened...the kill him shout. It is just another case of bullshit. Go find it on youtube...prove the secret service wrong. They investigated it and concluded that it never happened, just another case of the 87% club.

[bobblehead]

What? Only 3 days? The flyers in Virginia said for Dems to vote on the 5th.

That is accurate...registered democrats can come in and vote all the way until the 8th....and the counting will continue until they get the result they want.

[gex]

2 days to go! :D

[MJZiggy]

Thank God. Yay Wednesday!!!

[gex]

:D

[packinpatland]

TGIW!!!!!!...................my new mantra.
Let's all pray that, reagardless of how the election turns out, that it's decided on Tues. We should never have to endure another 2004.

[gex]

1 day! :D

[LL2]

TGIW!!!!!!...................my new mantra.
Let's all pray that, reagardless of how the election turns out, that it's decided on Tues. We should never have to endure another 2004.

Or 2000.

[sheepshead]

TGIW!!!!!!...................my new mantra.
Let's all pray that, reagardless of how the election turns out, that it's decided on Tues. We should never have to endure another 2004.

Unfortunately, and thanks in part to Al Gore and his crew, i dont think this is going to be very clean nor uncontested.

[HowardRoark]

1 day! :D

Then what?

[packinpatland]

Change we need.

[packinpatland]

TGIW!!!!!!...................my new mantra.
Let's all pray that, reagardless of how the election turns out, that it's decided on Tues. We should never have to endure another 2004.

Or 2000.

I'm old.......like McCain. :oops:

[HowardRoark]

Change we need.

What kind of change?

[retailguy]

Change we need.

What kind of change?

A bankrupt coal industry?

[arcilite]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l263/stoj26/OpW.jpg

[packinpatland]

The arguments and the debates are over. Tomorrow we'll see which direction the future of the USA is going.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The arguments and the debates are over. Tomorrow we'll see which direction the future of the USA is going.

At least, for the next 2-4 years. Americans have a strange way about them.

[SkinBasket]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l263/stoj26/OpW.jpg

You should be ashamed of yourself. In a good way.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Obama is a charlatan. His entire career has been a series of self-promotions, starting with his finding Jesus & Rev Wright to build a political base in Chicago's black community. He speaks well, has gotten better on foreign policy issues, so media pundits say he is presidential now.

I don't know how much he differs from FDR or Bill Clinton, those guys were charismatic leaders who plotted their way to the presidency.

But shit, at least those two and Sarah Palin were governors of a state, actually DID something as an executive before becoming the chief executive of the land.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Probably similar to FDR. Probably not so similar to Clinton. Clinton convinced his liberal backers that he was one of them, but he was a lot more middle of the road than he talked. He was a good politician. We'll see how Obama actually governs. With the Senate and House on his side (and left-leaning leaders of those two bodies), I'm not too hopeful that he'll follow in Clinton's footsteps.

[Partial]

Change we need.

Maybe change that YOU need. Please don't lump me in with people in need of change. My life is great! :D

[gex]

WWWWOOOOOHHHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

[SkinBasket]

WWWWOOOOOHHHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

This is why conservatives think of liberals as mentally challenged. Well, one of the reasons anyway.

[Zool]

WWWWOOOOOHHHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

This is why conservatives think of liberals as mentally challenged. Well, one of the reasons anyway.

This is why skin is considered an elitest douchebag.

[falco]

WWWWOOOOOHHHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

This is why conservatives think of liberals as mentally challenged. Well, one of the reasons anyway.

This is why skin is considered an elitest douchebag.

really? elitist?

[Zool]

WWWWOOOOOHHHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

This is why conservatives think of liberals as mentally challenged. Well, one of the reasons anyway.

This is why skin is considered an elitest douchebag.

really? elitist?

Stop spoiling my fun. I like to poke the angry bear once in a while.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Al Franken is leading the Senate race in MN.
I want to see Stewart Smalley win for entertainment purposes.

Dems could get a fillibuster proof edge in Senate,its close.

[mraynrand]

Al Franken is leading the Senate race in MN.
I want to see Stewart Smalley win for entertainment purposes.

Dems could get a fillibuster proof edge in Senate,its close.

What will be really interesting to see is if the situation that happened in King county for Governor of WA in 2004 will repeat itself. Will there be a series of newly 'found' votes in Hennepin county in the next several days that take this from about a 700 vote Coleman victory to a Franken victory. will anyone question these votes or will they just accept them until later they discover that more votes were cast than registered voters...

[SkinBasket]

WWWWOOOOOHHHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

This is why conservatives think of liberals as mentally challenged. Well, one of the reasons anyway.

This is why skin is considered an elitest douchebag.

really? elitist?

I try.

[mraynrand]

WWWWOOOOOHHHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

This is why conservatives think of liberals as mentally challenged. Well, one of the reasons anyway.

This is why skin is considered an elitest douchebag.

really? elitist?

I try.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u310/wiznipau/paul_drinking_tea_on_top_of_val_tho.jpg

[Zool]

WWWWOOOOOHHHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

This is why conservatives think of liberals as mentally challenged. Well, one of the reasons anyway.

This is why skin is considered an elitest douchebag.

really? elitist?

I try.

You jerks have broken the skinbasket. For shame.