RESPECT

[Kiwon]

Say what you want to about McCain, I'll always respect him for his military service and strength to endure 5.5 years of torture and solitary hell in Vietnam. He had the chance for early release as an admiral's son and he refused it. That's character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvcuEqGUwmc

He shared in his RNC speech that he was an arrogant SOB before his capture. Being beaten and emotionally broken humbled him and made him learn to depend on others. In other words, this terrible experience changed him and made him a better person.

I remember clearly watching on television the arrival of the plane carrying the returning POWs in 1973 and seeing McCain hobble off. He was a POW celebrity, if you will, and the announcer was waiting for his emergence from the plane. Americans were proud to welcome home him and the other brave soldiers. Later he was welcomed to Washington to meet President Nixon who arranged their release and to thank him.

http://www.askfactmaster.com/images/en/5/51/Nixon_greets_POW_McCain.jpg

McCain's not an orthodox political conservative and was/is not a favorite of folks on the Right. However, he's an American hero and I respect the hell out of the guy.

The media and Obama's crew can take all the pot shots at his character they want. They can't change the fact that McCain served his country with honor and distinction. His character is further distinguished by the fact that he sought to heal old wounds and helped to spur reconciliation between the United States and Vietnam governments.

Like I said before, I respect the man immensely and so should everyone else, Republican or Democrat.

[pacfan]

Say what you want to about McCain, I'll always respect him for his military service and strength to endure 5.5 years of torture and solitary hell in Vietnam. He had the chance for early release as an admiral's son and he refused it. That's character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvcuEqGUwmc

He shared in his RNC speech that he was an arrogant SOB before his capture. Being beaten and emotionally broken humbled him and made him learn to depend on others. In other words, this terrible experience changed him and made him a better person.

I remember clearly watching on television the arrival of the plane carrying the returning POWs in 1973 and seeing McCain hobble off. He was a POW celebrity, if you will, and the announcer was waiting for his emergence from the plane. Americans were proud to welcome home him and the other brave soldiers. Later he was welcomed to Washington to meet President Nixon who arranged their release and to thank him.

http://www.askfactmaster.com/images/en/5/51/Nixon_greets_POW_McCain.jpg

McCain's not an orthodox political conservative and was/is not a favorite of folks on the Right. However, he's an American hero and I respect the hell out of the guy.

The media and Obama's crew can take all the pot shots at his character they want. They can't change the fact that McCain served his country with honor and distinction. His character is further distinguished by the fact that he sought to heal old wounds and helped to spur reconciliation between the United States and Vietnam governments.

Like I said before, I respect the man immensely and so should everyone else, Republican or Democrat.

As a Marine Corps veteran, I totally agree with your comments about his service.

I felt the same outrage when McCain was treated like dog shit by the Bush campaign in 2000. I felt he same way when James Stockdale was disrespected in the 1992 campaign. Its more than just democrats who forget the sacrfice of these men and women. These elections bring out the worst in Americans from all sides.

The list of veterans serving this country in political positions is long and they also deserve the same respect, but both parties wipe away those sacrfices for simple political gains. Having actually served in combat, its disgusting the words that are said about our veterans and their service. Especially by those who have never served in our nation's military, in peacetime or war.

[mraynrand]

Say what you want to about McCain, I'll always respect him for his military service and strength to endure 5.5 years of torture and solitary hell in Vietnam. He had the chance for early release as an admiral's son and he refused it. That's character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvcuEqGUwmc

He shared in his RNC speech that he was an arrogant SOB before his capture. Being beaten and emotionally broken humbled him and made him learn to depend on others. In other words, this terrible experience changed him and made him a better person.

I remember clearly watching on television the arrival of the plane carrying the returning POWs in 1973 and seeing McCain hobble off. He was a POW celebrity, if you will, and the announcer was waiting for his emergence from the plane. Americans were proud to welcome home him and the other brave soldiers. Later he was welcomed to Washington to meet President Nixon who arranged their release and to thank him.

http://www.askfactmaster.com/images/en/5/51/Nixon_greets_POW_McCain.jpg

McCain's not an orthodox political conservative and was/is not a favorite of folks on the Right. However, he's an American hero and I respect the hell out of the guy.

The media and Obama's crew can take all the pot shots at his character they want. They can't change the fact that McCain served his country with honor and distinction. His character is further distinguished by the fact that he sought to heal old wounds and helped to spur reconciliation between the United States and Vietnam governments.

Like I said before, I respect the man immensely and so should everyone else, Republican or Democrat.

As a Marine Corps veteran, I totally agree with your comments about his service.

I felt the same outrage when McCain was treated like dog shit by the Bush campaign in 2000. I felt he same way when James Stockdale was disrespected in the 1992 campaign. Its more than just democrats who forget the sacrfice of these men and women. These elections bring out the worst in Americans from all sides.

The list of veterans serving this country in political positions is long and they also deserve the same respect, but both parties wipe away those sacrfices for simple political gains. Having actually served in combat, its disgusting the words that are said about our veterans and their service. Especially by those who have never served in our nation's military, in peacetime or war.

I blame Perot for picking Stockdale. I had the good fortune to meet the Admiral (Bond, James Bond Stockdale to you!) in 1991. He was a terrific guy, and I'm convinced he suffered from PTSD and did have alzheimers, though I'm not sure how advanced it was in '92. Perot picked him as a sort of place holder when Perot was already thinking of withdrawing, if I remember correctly. Should have picked someone else, and Perot should have been serious about running or stay out of the race. Favorite saying: "Do the right thing even if it means dying like a dog when no one's there to see you do it." (That's the kind of thinking it seems to me only a military guy who has been in serious combat, captivity, or both, like Stockdale and McCain, could truly appreciate).

[th87]

Say what you want to about McCain, I'll always respect him for his military service and strength to endure 5.5 years of torture and solitary hell in Vietnam. He had the chance for early release as an admiral's son and he refused it. That's character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvcuEqGUwmc

He shared in his RNC speech that he was an arrogant SOB before his capture. Being beaten and emotionally broken humbled him and made him learn to depend on others. In other words, this terrible experience changed him and made him a better person.

I remember clearly watching on television the arrival of the plane carrying the returning POWs in 1973 and seeing McCain hobble off. He was a POW celebrity, if you will, and the announcer was waiting for his emergence from the plane. Americans were proud to welcome home him and the other brave soldiers. Later he was welcomed to Washington to meet President Nixon who arranged their release and to thank him.

http://www.askfactmaster.com/images/en/5/51/Nixon_greets_POW_McCain.jpg

McCain's not an orthodox political conservative and was/is not a favorite of folks on the Right. However, he's an American hero and I respect the hell out of the guy.

The media and Obama's crew can take all the pot shots at his character they want. They can't change the fact that McCain served his country with honor and distinction. His character is further distinguished by the fact that he sought to heal old wounds and helped to spur reconciliation between the United States and Vietnam governments.

Like I said before, I respect the man immensely and so should everyone else, Republican or Democrat.

Agreed. I couldn't even imagine what he's been through. I'll always respect him for that.

[bobblehead]

rand...i agree with your post 100%. My mother used to have a saying when I would point out others who took "shortcuts". She would say "being right has been good enough my whole life and its going to be good enough for the rest of it." Doing the right thing has nothing to do with what others think.

That said, even though I have immense respect for miccain the person, I hate his politics. I think sometimes he just doesn't get things....and to top it off his nasty campaign against romney showed me that he does have a little bit of a feeling that he is entitled to this nomination and office for his past heroics....and I hate entitlement programs.

[mraynrand]

rand...i agree with your post 100%. My mother used to have a saying when I would point out others who took "shortcuts". She would say "being right has been good enough my whole life and its going to be good enough for the rest of it." Doing the right thing has nothing to do with what others think.

That said, even though I have immense respect for miccain the person, I hate his politics. I think sometimes he just doesn't get things....and to top it off his nasty campaign against romney showed me that he does have a little bit of a feeling that he is entitled to this nomination and office for his past heroics....and I hate entitlement programs.

That entitlement thinking was on display, I think, on Bill Bennett's program where Bill was agreeing with callers that we Owe McCain. Bleech. As voters, we owe McCain nothing. I think he's been a pretty marginal politician, and has run a pretty lousy campaign. The alternative looks a whole lot worse, so that's not a really inspiring reason to vote for someone.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think he's been a pretty marginal politician, and has run a pretty lousy campaign.

It is easy to criticize a candidate who is losing.

What Republican do you suppose could do better this election cycle? I seen none that wouldn't do worse than McCain has done.

I think McCain has run a reasonable campaign, Palin was a good choice politically. He has not run a particularly dirty campaign, unless you consider that a drawback.

[mraynrand]

I think he's been a pretty marginal politician, and has run a pretty lousy campaign.

It is easy to criticize a candidate who is losing.

What Republican do you suppose could do better this election cycle? I seen none that wouldn't do worse than McCain has done.

I think McCain has run a reasonable campaign, Palin was a good choice politically. He has not run a particularly dirty campaign, unless you consider that a drawback.

I should have used a different word than lousy. Ineffective perhaps? At the same time, I have to admit to being stunned, absolutely stunned at the out and out biased cheerleading for Obama by just about every major news outlet. Maybe that is tarnishing my image of McCain's campaign.

That's a good point about other Republican pols. No one would likely have done better. Giuliani has far better command of the issues, but I suspect he would have would have been more of a hostile, dirty fighter, and I think he would have had enormously high negatives. Gingrich was an option and also has a better core conservative philosophy, but I don't know if he would have been anywhere near as aggressive a candidate as he is as a commentator. High negatives, too? Romney didn't connect with anyone. Huckabee? He looks better from a distance of 6 months.

[oregonpackfan]

A basically good person like John McCain would not have had to endure all those years of torture if the United States had not chosen to enter that senseless Vietnam War.

Remember the fear-based rants of the "Domino theory" that if we did not "win" in Vietnam, that communism would spread throughout the Pacific? Eventually, communist troops would be storming California beaches.

Do you also remember the alleged "Gulf of Tonkin" incidents in August of '64? On two successive days, Vietnamese PT-type of boats attacked American ships in the Gulf of Tonkin. Years later, we discovered it was all a deliberate hoax by our civilian(President Johnson) and military leaders to ratchet up the numbers of American troops to Vietnam.

We lost over 58,000 American service people in that war. Tens of thousands more were wounded. Thousands more still carry the emotional scars of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.

We should also add that hundreds of thousands of innocent Vietnamese civilians died in that War.

Unfortunately, we Americans allowed ourselves to be swayed by the deceptions of our President into entering a war with Iraq--an invasion and occupational war based on falsehoods.

Our service people in the military are indeed brave. We owe it to them not to put them in harm's way for wars based on fear and lies.

[Deputy Nutz]

A basically good person like John McCain would not have had to endure all those years of torture if the United States had not chosen to enter that senseless Vietnam War.

Remember the fear-based rants of the "Domino theory" that if we did not "win" in Vietnam, that communism would spread throughout the Pacific? Eventually, communist troops would be storming California beaches.

Do you also remember the alleged "Gulf of Tonkin" incidents in August of '64? On two successive days, Vietnamese PT-type of boats attacked American ships in the Gulf of Tonkin. Years later, we discovered it was all a deliberate hoax by our civilian(President Johnson) and military leaders to ratchet up the numbers of American troops to Vietnam.

We lost over 58,000 American service people in that war. Tens of thousands more were wounded. Thousands more still carry the emotional scars of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.

We should also add that hundreds of thousands of innocent Vietnamese civilians died in that War.

Unfortunately, we Americans allowed ourselves to be swayed by the deceptions of our President into entering a war with Iraq--an invasion and occupational war based on falsehoods.

Our service people in the military are indeed brave. We owe it to them not to put them in harm's way for wars based on fear and lies.


This is a piece of shit post, I am sorry I can't let it go. McCain was a sailor/soldier he went where his country told him he had to and he did his job and upholding the constitution. It takes a real man to go through what he did and not be bitter at his country. Instead he turned himself over completely to his country, he knew first hand the terror of the communist and by what means they would set forth for victory.

I think we all know that Vietnam was more of a mistake than successful. I am not questioning that but it is over even for all of you hippies that want to compare the war in Iraq to the one 40 years ago in Vietnam, but this certainly is the place for this post.

Nobody made any comment one way or another about the righteousness of the Vietnam War but for whatever reason you believe that this was the thread express you displeasure and feelings not only on the Vietnam War but the war in Iraq.

I respect your feelings on it, but certainly not in this thread, your placement was highly disrespectful. Next time you want to spread your wonderful opinions and beliefs about how terrible the US intervention in Vietnam was why don't you also state the wonderful things the communist did in Vietnam especially to their own people that they were trying to save from the oppression of capitalism and democracy.

Regardless of your statement made about the men in the military in your last sentence this whole post would make Vietnam Veterans feel worthless. I am sure most of them didn't want to be there, but they believed then and most do know that it was their duty, their country asked them to be there.

For instance I would never tell my Father in Law that that what we did in Vietnam was a mistake. He was there for two years putting his life on the line. How could you tell a person like that after all they went through and put themselves throught that it was a mistake?

[packinpatland]

Say what you want to about McCain, I'll always respect him for his military service and strength to endure 5.5 years of torture and solitary hell in Vietnam. He had the chance for early release as an admiral's son and he refused it. That's character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvcuEqGUwmc

He shared in his RNC speech that he was an arrogant SOB before his capture. Being beaten and emotionally broken humbled him and made him learn to depend on others. In other words, this terrible experience changed him and made him a better person.

I remember clearly watching on television the arrival of the plane carrying the returning POWs in 1973 and seeing McCain hobble off. He was a POW celebrity, if you will, and the announcer was waiting for his emergence from the plane. Americans were proud to welcome home him and the other brave soldiers. Later he was welcomed to Washington to meet President Nixon who arranged their release and to thank him.

http://www.askfactmaster.com/images/en/5/51/Nixon_greets_POW_McCain.jpg

McCain's not an orthodox political conservative and was/is not a favorite of folks on the Right. However, he's an American hero and I respect the hell out of the guy.

The media and Obama's crew can take all the pot shots at his character they want. They can't change the fact that McCain served his country with honor and distinction. His character is further distinguished by the fact that he sought to heal old wounds and helped to spur reconciliation between the United States and Vietnam governments.

Like I said before, I respect the man immensely and so should everyone else, Republican or Democrat.

As a Marine Corps veteran, I totally agree with your comments about his service.

I felt the same outrage when McCain was treated like dog shit by the Bush campaign in 2000. I felt he same way when James Stockdale was disrespected in the 1992 campaign. Its more than just democrats who forget the sacrfice of these men and women. These elections bring out the worst in Americans from all sides.

The list of veterans serving this country in political positions is long and they also deserve the same respect, but both parties wipe away those sacrfices for simple political gains. Having actually served in combat, its disgusting the words that are said about our veterans and their service. Especially by those who have never served in our nation's military, in peacetime or war.

I agree with you both 100% When it comes to McCain's military service and his being a POW. His character in those regards should be unchallenged.

But there are other ways to judge character. Like many other men (and I'm sure a few women too) in politics...Kennedy, Clinton, Edwards......
John McCain had a well-documented affair on his first wife, with his current wife. He has admitted in the books he has written about his life, that he ran around with several different women while still married to his first wife. And don't forget that he left her for a younger, richer woman - multi-millionaire Cindy Hensley who is now Cindy McCain - after she had been severely hurt in a car accident.

John McCain's military record is an umblemished, honorable, commendable one. His personal record.............not so honorable. I guess he should be given some credit tho........he didn't lie about it.

[LL2]

Say what you want to about McCain, I'll always respect him for his military service and strength to endure 5.5 years of torture and solitary hell in Vietnam. He had the chance for early release as an admiral's son and he refused it. That's character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvcuEqGUwmc

He shared in his RNC speech that he was an arrogant SOB before his capture. Being beaten and emotionally broken humbled him and made him learn to depend on others. In other words, this terrible experience changed him and made him a better person.

I remember clearly watching on television the arrival of the plane carrying the returning POWs in 1973 and seeing McCain hobble off. He was a POW celebrity, if you will, and the announcer was waiting for his emergence from the plane. Americans were proud to welcome home him and the other brave soldiers. Later he was welcomed to Washington to meet President Nixon who arranged their release and to thank him.

http://www.askfactmaster.com/images/en/5/51/Nixon_greets_POW_McCain.jpg

McCain's not an orthodox political conservative and was/is not a favorite of folks on the Right. However, he's an American hero and I respect the hell out of the guy.

The media and Obama's crew can take all the pot shots at his character they want. They can't change the fact that McCain served his country with honor and distinction. His character is further distinguished by the fact that he sought to heal old wounds and helped to spur reconciliation between the United States and Vietnam governments.

Like I said before, I respect the man immensely and so should everyone else, Republican or Democrat.

As a Marine Corps veteran, I totally agree with your comments about his service.

I felt the same outrage when McCain was treated like dog shit by the Bush campaign in 2000. I felt he same way when James Stockdale was disrespected in the 1992 campaign. Its more than just democrats who forget the sacrfice of these men and women. These elections bring out the worst in Americans from all sides.

The list of veterans serving this country in political positions is long and they also deserve the same respect, but both parties wipe away those sacrfices for simple political gains. Having actually served in combat, its disgusting the words that are said about our veterans and their service. Especially by those who have never served in our nation's military, in peacetime or war.

I agree with you both 100% When it comes to McCain's military service and his being a POW. His character in those regards should be unchallenged.

But there are other ways to judge character. Like many other men (and I'm sure a few women too) in politics...Kennedy, Clinton, Edwards......
John McCain had a well-documented affair on his first wife, with his current wife. He has admitted in the books he has written about his life, that he ran around with several different women while still married to his first wife. And don't forget that he left her for a younger, richer woman - multi-millionaire Cindy Hensley who is now Cindy McCain - after she had been severely hurt in a car accident.

John McCain's military record is an umblemished, honorable, commendable one. His personal record.............not so honorable. I guess he should be given some credit tho........he didn't lie about it.

Yeah...we shouldn't forget affair in the White House Clinton had with a very young intern and the many others he had. Plus, the affair John Edwards had. Wasn't Edwards wife sick when he cheated. The topic of cheating isn't a smart one to bring up because their are plenty of examples on both sides.

[mraynrand]

Yeah...we shouldn't forget affair in the White House Clinton had with a very young intern and the many others he had. Plus, the affair John Edwards had. Wasn't Edwards wife sick when he cheated. The topic of cheating isn't a smart one to bring up because their are plenty of examples on both sides.

I think you're falling into PIP's moral equivalency trap, as though McCain's behaviour in a failed marriage makes him just the same as all the other pols she listed. John Edwards is a scoundrel through and through. Clinton's personal life was an absolute mess, with multiple rape allegations, etc. not to mention his behaviour in the oral office or during 'Nam. Not that there aren't terrible Republicans, or that McCain is flawless, but the idea of placing McCain in the same moral category as a Ted Kennedy, John Edwards, or Bill Clinton is absurd.

[packinpatland]

Say what you want to about McCain, I'll always respect him for his military service and strength to endure 5.5 years of torture and solitary hell in Vietnam. He had the chance for early release as an admiral's son and he refused it. That's character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvcuEqGUwmc

He shared in his RNC speech that he was an arrogant SOB before his capture. Being beaten and emotionally broken humbled him and made him learn to depend on others. In other words, this terrible experience changed him and made him a better person.

I remember clearly watching on television the arrival of the plane carrying the returning POWs in 1973 and seeing McCain hobble off. He was a POW celebrity, if you will, and the announcer was waiting for his emergence from the plane. Americans were proud to welcome home him and the other brave soldiers. Later he was welcomed to Washington to meet President Nixon who arranged their release and to thank him.

http://www.askfactmaster.com/images/en/5/51/Nixon_greets_POW_McCain.jpg

McCain's not an orthodox political conservative and was/is not a favorite of folks on the Right. However, he's an American hero and I respect the hell out of the guy.

The media and Obama's crew can take all the pot shots at his character they want. They can't change the fact that McCain served his country with honor and distinction. His character is further distinguished by the fact that he sought to heal old wounds and helped to spur reconciliation between the United States and Vietnam governments.

Like I said before, I respect the man immensely and so should everyone else, Republican or Democrat.

As a Marine Corps veteran, I totally agree with your comments about his service.

I felt the same outrage when McCain was treated like dog shit by the Bush campaign in 2000. I felt he same way when James Stockdale was disrespected in the 1992 campaign. Its more than just democrats who forget the sacrfice of these men and women. These elections bring out the worst in Americans from all sides.

The list of veterans serving this country in political positions is long and they also deserve the same respect, but both parties wipe away those sacrfices for simple political gains. Having actually served in combat, its disgusting the words that are said about our veterans and their service. Especially by those who have never served in our nation's military, in peacetime or war.

I agree with you both 100% When it comes to McCain's military service and his being a POW. His character in those regards should be unchallenged.

But there are other ways to judge character. Like many other men (and I'm sure a few women too) in politics...Kennedy, Clinton, Edwards......
John McCain had a well-documented affair on his first wifewith his current wife. He has admitted in the books he has written about his life, that he ran around with several different women while still married to his first wife. And don't forget that he left her for a younger, richer woman - multi-millionaire Cindy Hensley who is now Cindy McCain - after she had been severely hurt in a car accident.

John McCain's military record is an umblemished, honorable, commendable one. His personal record.............not so honorable. I guess he should be given some credit tho........he didn't lie about it.

Yeah...we shouldn't forget affair in the White House Clinton had with a very young intern and the many others he had. Plus, the affair John Edwards had. Wasn't Edwards wife sick when he cheated. The topic of cheating isn't a smart one to bring up because their are plenty of examples on both sides.

Examples to which I cited. Edwards, Hart, Clinton (Kennedy may have if it happened today) paid a price for their indiscretions........has John McCain?
I disaggree about it not being smart to bring up.......it speaks directly to a man's character.

[ThunderDan]

Say what you want to about McCain, I'll always respect him for his military service and strength to endure 5.5 years of torture and solitary hell in Vietnam. He had the chance for early release as an admiral's son and he refused it. That's character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvcuEqGUwmc

He shared in his RNC speech that he was an arrogant SOB before his capture. Being beaten and emotionally broken humbled him and made him learn to depend on others. In other words, this terrible experience changed him and made him a better person.

I remember clearly watching on television the arrival of the plane carrying the returning POWs in 1973 and seeing McCain hobble off. He was a POW celebrity, if you will, and the announcer was waiting for his emergence from the plane. Americans were proud to welcome home him and the other brave soldiers. Later he was welcomed to Washington to meet President Nixon who arranged their release and to thank him.

http://www.askfactmaster.com/images/en/5/51/Nixon_greets_POW_McCain.jpg

McCain's not an orthodox political conservative and was/is not a favorite of folks on the Right. However, he's an American hero and I respect the hell out of the guy.

The media and Obama's crew can take all the pot shots at his character they want. They can't change the fact that McCain served his country with honor and distinction. His character is further distinguished by the fact that he sought to heal old wounds and helped to spur reconciliation between the United States and Vietnam governments.

Like I said before, I respect the man immensely and so should everyone else, Republican or Democrat.

I think it's funny that you bring this point up as someone who is voting Republican. The last veteran to get hammered over his service was John Kerry. The term swiftboated is now in the English vocabulary.

I got the pleasure to meet President Bush and while I dislike his politics I shook his hand and thanked him for being our President. It's a tough job.

I'm glad my past doesn't have to get looked into.

There is nothing wrong with arguing policies and issues but when people start calling canidates "incoherent idiots" and playing down someones position on the Harvard Law Review it makes me sick.

Here are two people who are willing to be President. I am not sure that very few people would ever want that job. Get off of the personal attacks! Let's talk about the economy and foreign policy. Both canidates attack ads make me sick.

[mraynrand]

I'm glad my past doesn't have to get looked into.

There is nothing wrong with arguing policies and issues but when people start .... playing down someones position on the Harvard Law Review it makes me sick.

Let's talk about the economy and foreign policy. Both canidates attack ads make me sick.

If you run for pres. your past should be looked into. Really, what else is there to go on? Sure, you could talk all day about what your policies will be, your position on foreign affairs and economics, etc. - but anyone can do that. How do we know what you will actually do, if we don't know what you've done? How do we know what you will care about if we don't know what you cared about in the past. Everyone who hires people looks at their resume and references at least as much if not way more than their interviews (it varies of course). With Obama's past being so thin and unknown, what are we to think. He did virtually nothing in the state senate, nor the national senate, and as a community organizer he worked with Bill Ayers to spend 50 million of Annenberg monies and 60 million more to radicalize students (that's not on his resume/bio, btw). Since Obama was an academic professor, aren't you curious what papers he wrote as a prof. Are you telling me that you are going to vote for Obama strictly based on the DNC platform and what he tells you (and how he tells you) what he is going to do when president? And if you are looking at his resume, what has he done specifically that really impresses you -tells you he will be a good president?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Recent president famous for their fidelity and long marriages:
Nixon, Carter, Bush

Recent presidents known to have had marrital affairs:
Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton

I don't see any value whatsoever in getting into tabloid politics.

McCain was seperated from his wife for many years, at a relatively young age, with tremendous personal trauma and change going on. It would have be more surpising if they had stayed together

[hoosier]

I think he's been a pretty marginal politician, and has run a pretty lousy campaign.

It is easy to criticize a candidate who is losing.

What Republican do you suppose could do better this election cycle? I seen none that wouldn't do worse than McCain has done.

I think McCain has run a reasonable campaign, Palin was a good choice politically. He has not run a particularly dirty campaign, unless you consider that a drawback.

Oh right, he's been a little prince....Ever since September, when the McCain campaign came to the conclusion that if it talked about the issues he was going to lose the election, McCain has done nothing but attach Obama, and the attacks have generally been dishonorable--based on embellishments of the facts, false insinuations about Obama's hidden "socialist" tendencies, and crotchety behavior during debates, hiring the same sleazy firms who helped organize Bush's despicable attacks on McCain in the 2000 primaries. In short, McCain's behavior has been a complete embarassment, both in its ineptitude and its cranky negativity.

[ThunderDan]

I'm glad my past doesn't have to get looked into.

There is nothing wrong with arguing policies and issues but when people start .... playing down someones position on the Harvard Law Review it makes me sick.

Let's talk about the economy and foreign policy. Both canidates attack ads make me sick.

If you run for pres. your past should be looked into. Really, what else is there to go on? Sure, you could talk all day about what your policies will be, your position on foreign affairs and economics, etc. - but anyone can do that. How do we know what you will actually do, if we don't know what you've done? How do we know what you will care about if we don't know what you cared about in the past. Everyone who hires people looks at their resume and references at least as much if not way more than their interviews (it varies of course). With Obama's past being so thin and unknown, what are we to think. He did virtually nothing in the state senate, nor the national senate, and as a community organizer he worked with Bill Ayers to spend 50 million of Annenberg monies and 60 million more to radicalize students (that's not on his resume/bio, btw). Since Obama was an academic professor, aren't you curious what papers he wrote as a prof. Are you telling me that you are going to vote for Obama strictly based on the DNC platform and what he tells you (and how he tells you) what he is going to do when president? And if you are looking at his resume, what has he done specifically that really impresses you -tells you he will be a good president?

Maybe the Annenberg foundation should have been more deligent in their research before giving to such a horrible cause. Or maybe they really knew what they were doing!?!

I am going to vote for Obama because I too beleive in spreading the wealth. I am in the 33% tax bracket and thats fine with me.

The worst thing any society can do is build a larger and larger class of citizens in poverty. You start building an economic monarchy and eventually the have nots will riot and demand access to resources. It has occurred time after time in history.

As a resident of the state that founded the Progressive Party it is nice to finally have someone who represents what I believe.

[Harlan Huckleby]

hoozier, you really have to compare with past campaigns.

The campaign ads have been pretty tame.

(And what really is most effective is how the news media and entertainment industry spins things.)

[Harlan Huckleby]

false insinuations about Obama's hidden "socialist" tendencies, and crotchety behavior during debates, hiring the same sleazy firms who helped organize Bush's despicable attacks on McCain in the 2000 primaries.

This stuff is a joke. :lol: You call this dirt?

I'm really going to have to start reading your posts more often, you're a card.

[mraynrand]

I am going to vote for Obama because I too beleive in spreading the wealth. I am in the 33% tax bracket and thats fine with me.


Go ahead and spread your wealth - that's admirable. But why would you want your money to go through the government? Much like the Annenberg challenge, your money - shifting and squeezing through the bowels of government - will be used for all sorts of things that do nothing to spread the wealth - it will go to all sorts of pet projects of politicians who just love to hear that there is a sucker born every minute.

[ThunderDan]

I am going to vote for Obama because I too beleive in spreading the wealth. I am in the 33% tax bracket and thats fine with me.


Go ahead and spread your wealth - that's admirable. But why would you want your money to go through the government? Much like the Annenberg challenge, your money - shifting and squeezing through the bowels of government - will be used for all sorts of things that do nothing to spread the wealth - it will go to all sorts of pet projects of politicians who just love to hear that there is a sucker born every minute.

This is so humorous. I answered your last question so you change the topic one more time.

Now it's about wasteful spending and government.

Are you trying to tell me that I should trust the Republicans for 4 more years not to waste money. We have had a Republican president for the last 8 years and he couldn't find one bill to veto? Nothing came over his desk that was wasteful?

The next President is going to need a decisive government that is able to act quickly. McCain with his "terrorist" adds has pissed off the entire Democratic Party. How is he going to be able to get anything passed when both the Senate and the Congress are controlled by the Democrats? He will not get the cooperation that he has been telling us about to reach across the aisle after his campaign. He has burned up all goodwill he had with the Democrats in Washington will his campaign.

[mraynrand]

I am going to vote for Obama because I too beleive in spreading the wealth. I am in the 33% tax bracket and thats fine with me.


Go ahead and spread your wealth - that's admirable. But why would you want your money to go through the government? Much like the Annenberg challenge, your money - shifting and squeezing through the bowels of government - will be used for all sorts of things that do nothing to spread the wealth - it will go to all sorts of pet projects of politicians who just love to hear that there is a sucker born every minute.

This is so humorous. I answered your last question so you change the topic one more time.

Now it's about wasteful spending and government.

Are you trying to tell me that I should trust the Republicans for 4 more years not to waste money. We have had a Republican president for the last 8 years and he couldn't find one bill to veto? Nothing came over his desk that was wasteful?

The next President is going to need a decisive government that is able to act quickly. McCain with his "terrorist" adds has pissed off the entire Democratic Party. How is he going to be able to get anything passed when both the Senate and the Congress are controlled by the Democrats? He will not get the cooperation that he has been telling us about to reach across the aisle after his campaign. He has burned up all goodwill he had with the Democrats in Washington will his campaign.

I'd rather have less passed than more. I'd rather have less spending than more. If McCain simply counteracts the overspending tendencies of the congress that would be enough. If you recall, McCain didn't vote for Dubya's tax cut because he wanted spending cuts to go with it. Now that it's in place it would be insane to get rid of it with a looming recession. McCain is much less likely to allow the Congress to have their way. They are already gearing up for 300 billion more in spending, in addition to the 1 trillion that Obama wants to spend, the over 1 trillion the congress has spent on various bailouts, and the 'massive' increases Barney Frank wants (one of the major architects of the current economic disaster). Why would you want a compliant Obama with a spend crazy Congress?



P.S. did you answer my question from before?

[oregonpackfan]

A basically good person like John McCain would not have had to endure all those years of torture if the United States had not chosen to enter that senseless Vietnam War.

Remember the fear-based rants of the "Domino theory" that if we did not "win" in Vietnam, that communism would spread throughout the Pacific? Eventually, communist troops would be storming California beaches.

Do you also remember the alleged "Gulf of Tonkin" incidents in August of '64? On two successive days, Vietnamese PT-type of boats attacked American ships in the Gulf of Tonkin. Years later, we discovered it was all a deliberate hoax by our civilian(President Johnson) and military leaders to ratchet up the numbers of American troops to Vietnam.

We lost over 58,000 American service people in that war. Tens of thousands more were wounded. Thousands more still carry the emotional scars of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.

We should also add that hundreds of thousands of innocent Vietnamese civilians died in that War.

Unfortunately, we Americans allowed ourselves to be swayed by the deceptions of our President into entering a war with Iraq--an invasion and occupational war based on falsehoods.

Our service people in the military are indeed brave. We owe it to them not to put them in harm's way for wars based on fear and lies.


This is a piece of shit post, I am sorry I can't let it go. McCain was a sailor/soldier he went where his country told him he had to and he did his job and upholding the constitution. It takes a real man to go through what he did and not be bitter at his country. Instead he turned himself over completely to his country, he knew first hand the terror of the communist and by what means they would set forth for victory.

I think we all know that Vietnam was more of a mistake than successful. I am not questioning that but it is over even for all of you hippies that want to compare the war in Iraq to the one 40 years ago in Vietnam, but this certainly is the place for this post.

Nobody made any comment one way or another about the righteousness of the Vietnam War but for whatever reason you believe that this was the thread express you displeasure and feelings not only on the Vietnam War but the war in Iraq.

I respect your feelings on it, but certainly not in this thread, your placement was highly disrespectful. Next time you want to spread your wonderful opinions and beliefs about how terrible the US intervention in Vietnam was why don't you also state the wonderful things the communist did in Vietnam especially to their own people that they were trying to save from the oppression of capitalism and democracy.

Regardless of your statement made about the men in the military in your last sentence this whole post would make Vietnam Veterans feel worthless. I am sure most of them didn't want to be there, but they believed then and most do know that it was their duty, their country asked them to be there.

For instance I would never tell my Father in Law that that what we did in Vietnam was a mistake. He was there for two years putting his life on the line. How could you tell a person like that after all they went through and put themselves throught that it was a mistake?



Nutz,

Go back and read my original posts. Both the Vietnam War and the Iraqi Wars were based on falsehoods and fear propagated by our leaders.

Neither Vietnam nor Iraq were a threat to the security of our country.

For the Iraq War, none of the 19 hijackers of the four planes for the 9/11 massacre were from Iraq. The President's own bipartisan 9/11 Commission also concluded that Hussain did NOT have "weapons of mass desctruction." They also claimed that there were NO al-Qaida in Iraq at the time of the American invasion.

For both wars, we seem as a nation to be fixated on primarily "winning" the war. The validity and/or morality of those wars seem irrelevant. To be a "patriotic" American, one has to support the war, whether it is morally justified or not.

Yes, we need a military to defend our country for "just" warfare( WWII certainly met the criteria of a "just" war for America).

What is unjustifiable is to be willing to sacrifice the lives of tens of thousands of American military service people for unjust wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

[bobblehead]

I am going to vote for Obama because I too beleive in spreading the wealth. I am in the 33% tax bracket and thats fine with me.


Go ahead and spread your wealth - that's admirable. But why would you want your money to go through the government? Much like the Annenberg challenge, your money - shifting and squeezing through the bowels of government - will be used for all sorts of things that do nothing to spread the wealth - it will go to all sorts of pet projects of politicians who just love to hear that there is a sucker born every minute.

This is so humorous. I answered your last question so you change the topic one more time.

Now it's about wasteful spending and government.

Are you trying to tell me that I should trust the Republicans for 4 more years not to waste money. We have had a Republican president for the last 8 years and he couldn't find one bill to veto? Nothing came over his desk that was wasteful?

The next President is going to need a decisive government that is able to act quickly. McCain with his "terrorist" adds has pissed off the entire Democratic Party. How is he going to be able to get anything passed when both the Senate and the Congress are controlled by the Democrats? He will not get the cooperation that he has been telling us about to reach across the aisle after his campaign. He has burned up all goodwill he had with the Democrats in Washington will his campaign.

Mccain never had goodwill with dems..he had "I'll cave in and go against my entire party to help you pass your socialist agenda" goodwill....that is not the kind I wanted him to have as president anyway...Show me one piece of bipartisan legislation mccain passed that an honest conservative liked.

[bobblehead]

A basically good person like John McCain would not have had to endure all those years of torture if the United States had not chosen to enter that senseless Vietnam War.

Remember the fear-based rants of the "Domino theory" that if we did not "win" in Vietnam, that communism would spread throughout the Pacific? Eventually, communist troops would be storming California beaches.

Do you also remember the alleged "Gulf of Tonkin" incidents in August of '64? On two successive days, Vietnamese PT-type of boats attacked American ships in the Gulf of Tonkin. Years later, we discovered it was all a deliberate hoax by our civilian(President Johnson) and military leaders to ratchet up the numbers of American troops to Vietnam.

We lost over 58,000 American service people in that war. Tens of thousands more were wounded. Thousands more still carry the emotional scars of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.

We should also add that hundreds of thousands of innocent Vietnamese civilians died in that War.

Unfortunately, we Americans allowed ourselves to be swayed by the deceptions of our President into entering a war with Iraq--an invasion and occupational war based on falsehoods.

Our service people in the military are indeed brave. We owe it to them not to put them in harm's way for wars based on fear and lies.

Oregan...digging this up, cutting and pasting it on a thai computer was a pain in the ass so I hope you read it to understand Iraq a little better. I wrote it back in may or june on a thread tex started.
========================================
You however have figured out that the left isinherently wrong most of the time, but you fail to see when the GOP is wrong. And when they are wrong, people either don't vote, or vote the other way to "cleanse" the party. This is part of McCains problem, he wants to be "middle of the road" and most of america is actually conservative (fiscally). The referendum on him won't be favorable.

OK, starting with the war, first understand why we actually have to get involved....we aren't energy independent, but don't misread that as we are fighting for oil, read it as the middle east has oil and that equates wealth. First you have to realize that radical islam wants us dead, not just islam in the middle east, but in africa and even small pockets of asia too. The difference is that the radical muslims in the middle east has a valuable resource that we rely on and that equates wealth which equates the ability to make weapons of mass destruction....following? You don't see us taking out dictators in Africa who are just like saddam do you, cuz they have no wealth which equals ability to create nukes.

So what do we do, attack Iran? (the country closest to having a nuke, but much bigger than iraq) No, we make saddam out to be pure evil, take over his country, and build a MONSTER air base 12 minutes flight from Iran...get it, this whole war was about Iran (axis of evil and all). See Korea we could attack diplomatically, they have NOTHING we need, we merely cripple them economically (even worse than they are) and they can't afford to continue their nuclear proliferation (nor can any country not wealthy enough). Another difference is that korea isn't radical islam and actually worries about repercussions if they ever did nuke us.

Now liberals might think this is unacceptable, I personally don't, but I wish the debate had been formed honestly by bush from the start. He nor anyone else was ever worried about a terrorist attack killing 3000 people, they were worried about the attack on our financial systems. (how many people die heinous deaths every year without terrorism?) They were also worried about the next clinton selling iran the technology to actually get a nuke over here once they can create one, or nuking israel throwing the middle east into disarry choking off oil supplies.....WE CAN'T LET A RADICAL MUSLIM REGIME GET A NUKE!!

Ok, now lets look at it closer, what might have been a better strategy, but the leftists wouldn't let us take that course, and I'm not sure the rightys wanted to. How about instead of spending a ton of money on a war and inflating oil prices by not drilling here we drill like crazy, anwar, offshore, backyard everywhere. We also make a national innitiative to increase nuclear power dramatically. While we are at it we offer BILLION dollar prizes for certain benchmark improvements in solar, wind and any renewable energy source.

The purpose of drilling and going nuclear is to deflate the global price of oil NOW thus financially damaging the middle east in the short term thus reducing our need for them, while maintaining their need for us. The purpose of the benchmark prizes is to get us off dirty and non renewable power long term as demand for energy worldwide continue to climb. It also makes us the world leader in the most valuable resource on the planet.....ENERGY (always has been, always will be)

I have faith in the american people and I think if bush had framed the debate this way we never would have had to go to war and the people would have spoken loudly giving him a huge re-election and we would be nearly there already

[bobblehead]

Yes, we need a military to defend our country for "just" warfare( WWII certainly met the criteria of a "just" war for America).

What is unjustifiable is to be willing to sacrifice the lives of tens of thousands of American military service people for unjust wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

How was WW II any more just than iraq...I'm pretty sure less people died in pearl harbor than on 9/11 (just guessing, correct if I'm wrong). We were attacked by radical islam and saddam was certainly funding them. In WW II we intentionally pushed our ships towards Japans military until they retaliated...they were content to keep us out of it and dominate europe. We had about the same motive to get involved in both cases. In both cases we could have eaten the casualties and moved on.

[Deputy Nutz]

A basically good person like John McCain would not have had to endure all those years of torture if the United States had not chosen to enter that senseless Vietnam War.

Remember the fear-based rants of the "Domino theory" that if we did not "win" in Vietnam, that communism would spread throughout the Pacific? Eventually, communist troops would be storming California beaches.

Do you also remember the alleged "Gulf of Tonkin" incidents in August of '64? On two successive days, Vietnamese PT-type of boats attacked American ships in the Gulf of Tonkin. Years later, we discovered it was all a deliberate hoax by our civilian(President Johnson) and military leaders to ratchet up the numbers of American troops to Vietnam.

We lost over 58,000 American service people in that war. Tens of thousands more were wounded. Thousands more still carry the emotional scars of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.

We should also add that hundreds of thousands of innocent Vietnamese civilians died in that War.

Unfortunately, we Americans allowed ourselves to be swayed by the deceptions of our President into entering a war with Iraq--an invasion and occupational war based on falsehoods.

Our service people in the military are indeed brave. We owe it to them not to put them in harm's way for wars based on fear and lies.


This is a piece of shit post, I am sorry I can't let it go. McCain was a sailor/soldier he went where his country told him he had to and he did his job and upholding the constitution. It takes a real man to go through what he did and not be bitter at his country. Instead he turned himself over completely to his country, he knew first hand the terror of the communist and by what means they would set forth for victory.

I think we all know that Vietnam was more of a mistake than successful. I am not questioning that but it is over even for all of you hippies that want to compare the war in Iraq to the one 40 years ago in Vietnam, but this certainly is the place for this post.

Nobody made any comment one way or another about the righteousness of the Vietnam War but for whatever reason you believe that this was the thread express you displeasure and feelings not only on the Vietnam War but the war in Iraq.

I respect your feelings on it, but certainly not in this thread, your placement was highly disrespectful. Next time you want to spread your wonderful opinions and beliefs about how terrible the US intervention in Vietnam was why don't you also state the wonderful things the communist did in Vietnam especially to their own people that they were trying to save from the oppression of capitalism and democracy.

Regardless of your statement made about the men in the military in your last sentence this whole post would make Vietnam Veterans feel worthless. I am sure most of them didn't want to be there, but they believed then and most do know that it was their duty, their country asked them to be there.

For instance I would never tell my Father in Law that that what we did in Vietnam was a mistake. He was there for two years putting his life on the line. How could you tell a person like that after all they went through and put themselves throught that it was a mistake?



Nutz,

Go back and read my original posts. Both the Vietnam War and the Iraqi Wars were based on falsehoods and fear propagated by our leaders.

Neither Vietnam nor Iraq were a threat to the security of our country.

For the Iraq War, none of the 19 hijackers of the four planes for the 9/11 massacre were from Iraq. The President's own bipartisan 9/11 Commission also concluded that Hussain did NOT have "weapons of mass desctruction." They also claimed that there were NO al-Qaida in Iraq at the time of the American invasion.

For both wars, we seem as a nation to be fixated on primarily "winning" the war. The validity and/or morality of those wars seem irrelevant. To be a "patriotic" American, one has to support the war, whether it is morally justified or not.

Yes, we need a military to defend our country for "just" warfare( WWII certainly met the criteria of a "just" war for America).

What is unjustifiable is to be willing to sacrifice the lives of tens of thousands of American military service people for unjust wars like Vietnam and Iraq.

I really don't give a crap about this and AGAIN you would rather rant on the rights and wrongs then pay any sort of respect to the soldiers that put their lives on the line, instead your expression of those wars in this thread minimalizes those that served. These soldiers and warriors have no choice but to go where their Commander and Chief sends them, God willing, because whether you agree with it or not, you better get down on your hands and knees at night and thank God that he put people like John McCain on this planet to protect your civil liberities and your right to freedom, whether you think fighting a war in Vietnam is accomplishing those things are or not, McCain and millions of other soldiers are doing what they do following orders and believing with all their heart that they are protecting the constitution of the United States of America and all that fall under it, whether those orders send them to an unpopular war or an unjust war.

They sacrificed themselves willing and able for United States of America and they are doing it proudly and pretty goddamn effectively.

I see your still emotionally upset over the Vietnam war, and many from your generation still are, even the small precentage of the American Warriors that came back from Vietnam discouraged with the leaders of their country and military that the Liberal Mass Media decided to portray as the common majority of those that fought in the Vietnam Conflict. I see that you are stand fast against the War in Iraq, understandable, but I guess what I should have asked you point blank was to stick it in another thread, not this one.

[Harlan Huckleby]

oh my god, nutz & oregon are refighting the vietnam war.

where do you guys stand on korea? I think Brett Favre got screwed by the Packers.

[Deputy Nutz]

oh my god, nutz & oregon are refighting the vietnam war.

where do you guys stand on korea? I think Brett Favre got screwed by the Packers.

where do you stand on your partner delivering a swift donkey punch to the back of your head?

[ThunderDan]

I am going to vote for Obama because I too beleive in spreading the wealth. I am in the 33% tax bracket and thats fine with me.


Go ahead and spread your wealth - that's admirable. But why would you want your money to go through the government? Much like the Annenberg challenge, your money - shifting and squeezing through the bowels of government - will be used for all sorts of things that do nothing to spread the wealth - it will go to all sorts of pet projects of politicians who just love to hear that there is a sucker born every minute.

This is so humorous. I answered your last question so you change the topic one more time.

Now it's about wasteful spending and government.

Are you trying to tell me that I should trust the Republicans for 4 more years not to waste money. We have had a Republican president for the last 8 years and he couldn't find one bill to veto? Nothing came over his desk that was wasteful?

The next President is going to need a decisive government that is able to act quickly. McCain with his "terrorist" adds has pissed off the entire Democratic Party. How is he going to be able to get anything passed when both the Senate and the Congress are controlled by the Democrats? He will not get the cooperation that he has been telling us about to reach across the aisle after his campaign. He has burned up all goodwill he had with the Democrats in Washington will his campaign.

Mccain never had goodwill with dems..he had "I'll cave in and go against my entire party to help you pass your socialist agenda" goodwill....that is not the kind I wanted him to have as president anyway...Show me one piece of bipartisan legislation mccain passed that an honest conservative liked.

How about the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act with Wisconsin's very own Russ Feingold(D)?

[ThunderDan]

I am going to vote for Obama because I too beleive in spreading the wealth. I am in the 33% tax bracket and thats fine with me.


Go ahead and spread your wealth - that's admirable. But why would you want your money to go through the government? Much like the Annenberg challenge, your money - shifting and squeezing through the bowels of government - will be used for all sorts of things that do nothing to spread the wealth - it will go to all sorts of pet projects of politicians who just love to hear that there is a sucker born every minute.

This is so humorous. I answered your last question so you change the topic one more time.

Now it's about wasteful spending and government.

Are you trying to tell me that I should trust the Republicans for 4 more years not to waste money. We have had a Republican president for the last 8 years and he couldn't find one bill to veto? Nothing came over his desk that was wasteful?

The next President is going to need a decisive government that is able to act quickly. McCain with his "terrorist" adds has pissed off the entire Democratic Party. How is he going to be able to get anything passed when both the Senate and the Congress are controlled by the Democrats? He will not get the cooperation that he has been telling us about to reach across the aisle after his campaign. He has burned up all goodwill he had with the Democrats in Washington will his campaign.

I'd rather have less passed than more. I'd rather have less spending than more. If McCain simply counteracts the overspending tendencies of the congress that would be enough. If you recall, McCain didn't vote for Dubya's tax cut because he wanted spending cuts to go with it. Now that it's in place it would be insane to get rid of it with a looming recession. McCain is much less likely to allow the Congress to have their way. They are already gearing up for 300 billion more in spending, in addition to the 1 trillion that Obama wants to spend, the over 1 trillion the congress has spent on various bailouts, and the 'massive' increases Barney Frank wants (one of the major architects of the current economic disaster). Why would you want a compliant Obama with a spend crazy Congress?



P.S. did you answer my question from before?

Because if we have a government that has one party in control something can get done. Hey, it might be right or it might be wrong but at least we are doing something. If the party in control is doing a horrible job get rid of them in 4 years at least they had a chance.

Stagnation is not the sign of a good government.

[texaspackerbacker]

A few odds and ends here:

Bobblehead, good post about WWII. In addition, you could have added, even though it was the Japs that actually attacked us, we took on the even more significant enemy power, the Germans--a historic parallel to the War on Terror.

Regarding Vietnam and the tired leftist party line about America being wrong for getting into it, a big HELL NO! to that.

As anybody who lived through that itme period and was not part of the problem knows and understands, it was a BILATERAL WORLD at the time of the Vietnam War. There was that old evil empire, Soviet Communism, and there was the dominant force for good in the world, America. We fought in Vietnam to disrupt the progress of worldwide Communism--THE VERY VALID DOMINO THEORY. It is precisely BECAUSE we fought Communism that the LEFTIST/pro-Communist media at that time and the LEFTIST/pro-Communist education establishment since that time have promoted the concept of the basic wrongness of the Vietnam War. Rather, it was the way that war was fought--half-heartedly and in the context of trying to lessen the hate and negativity about the American cause spewed by the leftist media at the time that was flawed.

This crap about "none of the 19 hijackers were from Iraq" is the same old anti-American demagoguery and propaganda we have been hearing since day one. Saddam Hussein indeed was financing international terrorism; He had an al Qaeda training camp iside his borders; He DID have WMDs and was working on others. Taking him out was indeed, a valid part of the War on Terror.

And going back to Thunder Dan's original post about Obama's "spreading the wealth around" concept, I say again, the bad guys--Obama's people--are doing a much better job in the game of politics than the good guys--McCain's people. That "spreading the wealth" line is going to sound GOOD to a helluva lot more people than it sounds bad to--or than the "Joe the Plumber"/"protect the wealth" campaigning sounds good to.

[Cheesehead Craig]

oh my god, nutz & oregon are refighting the vietnam war.

where do you guys stand on korea? I think Brett Favre got screwed by the Packers.

where do you stand on your partner delivering a swift donkey punch to the back of your head?
Is this is advice from the same therapist to have you suck cock 24/7?

[mraynrand]

Because if we have a government that has one party in control something can get done. Hey, it might be right or it might be wrong but at least we are doing something. If the party in control is doing a horrible job get rid of them in 4 years at least they had a chance.

Stagnation is not the sign of a good government.

What a remarkable statement.

[SkinBasket]

Because if we have a government that has one party in control something can get done. Hey, it might be right or it might be wrong but at least we are doing something. If the party in control is doing a horrible job get rid of them in 4 years at least they had a chance.

Stagnation is not the sign of a good government.

What a remarkable statement.

It's actually a pretty succinct summation of the way democrats approach policy.

[ThunderDan]

Because if we have a government that has one party in control something can get done. Hey, it might be right or it might be wrong but at least we are doing something. If the party in control is doing a horrible job get rid of them in 4 years at least they had a chance.

Stagnation is not the sign of a good government.

What a remarkable statement.

No it's not remarkable. Its realistic.

Let's assume that the Republicans are right and small government is good (lets just ignore the last 8 years; I'm talking about when the Republicans were champions of small government). If the Democrats control the legislature the Republicans can't pass their needed laws and government cannot shrink. We therefor cannot see the result of smaller government because it can't exist. Therefor we cannot see if small government is actually better than big government.

We should judge a society not on how well the richest man lives but how badly the poorest man lives.

[mraynrand]

We should judge a society not on how well the richest man lives but how badly the poorest man lives.

Why?