PAT, KEVIN WILLIAMS HAD POSITIVE DIURETICS RESULTS, TOO

[packers11]

pft.com


PAT, KEVIN WILLIAMS HAD POSITIVE DIURETICS RESULTS, TOO
Posted by Mike Florio on October 26, 2008, 12:22 p.m.
Jay Glazer of FOX reports that the list of players who tested positive for a banned diuretic include both of the Vikings’ starting defensive tackles, Pat and Kevin Williams.

If the suspensions ultimately are upheld, the Vikings would be without the services of both players for four games. And that would decimate the Vikings’ run defense.

Glazer also reports that Falcons defensive tackle Grady Jackson is one of the names on the list.

The release of these names further highlights concerns that league sources are leaking confidential information regarding appeals that have not been finalized. Attorney David Cornwell, who reportedly will be representing some of the affected players, has recently made an aggressive call for measures aimed at ensuring that reporters don’t disclose this confidential information without also disclosing the source.

[MJZiggy]

Enough has been leaked that they should just publish the full list and get it over with.

[falco]

how funny if favre was on it...as if this soap opera hadn't become bizarre enough

[MJZiggy]

I can't even begin to imagine. I wonder if players are going to start coming down with mysterious 4-game injuries that just happen to coincide with the suspensions...

[Iron Mike]

You mean Pat Williams/Grady Jackson et al are taking medications to reduce weight??

http://www.tirislom.com/img/inconceivable.jpg

[Iron Mike]

also, what is going on here lately? i bust my ass bringing my unique brand of humor to the masses, but this place seems to be dissolving around us... after LEWCA's shenanigans its really reminding me of the last days of JSO

When the hell did you ever see a "Princess Bride" reference on JSO??? :?:

[red]

sucks for the queens if they loose both their fats guys

guys really need to stick to the approved list from the nfl

[Lurker64]

There's a potentially interesting angle here. It's been said that Childress needs to go 10-6 (or maybe 9-7 and make the playoffs) in order to save his job. That would require the Vikings to go 7-2 for the remainder of their schedule. Suppose that the Williams twins do end up getting suspended for the four games league policy dictates (which is likely if this rumor is true), and suppose the suspension hits during the Tampa, Green Bay, Jacksonville, Chicago part of their schedule (a tough stretch of games) and the Vikings go 1-3 or 0-4 but manage to win the rest of their games so the Vikings finish 8-8 or 7-9.

Does the fact that the Vikings had to go without the two most important parts of the defense for four games save Brad Childress's job?

[Cheesehead Craig]

If Fat Williams is using diuretics to maintain his weight, how the hell is he still that damn big? Bastard must be eating an all cheese diet to offset those "meds".

[St. Vince]

If Fat Williams is using diuretics to maintain his weight, how the hell is he still that damn big? Bastard must be eating an all cheese diet to offset those "meds".

What if the meds are actually working? What would he look like off of them?

[DonHutson]

Does the fact that the Vikings had to go without the two most important parts of the defense for four games save Brad Childress's job?

If Zygi needs X number of losses to prove to himself that Childress is in over his head... I don't know what to tell him.

Frankly, I don't know how he's lasted this long.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If Fat Williams is using diuretics to maintain his weight, how the hell is he still that damn big? Bastard must be eating an all cheese diet to offset those "meds".

From what I've read, those water pills can be used to mask steroids.

[Guiness]

You mean Pat Williams/Grady Jackson et al are taking medications to reduce weight??
This isn't about losing weight, it's about a masking agent, isn't it? The diuretic is being used to mask other (performance enhancing) substances.

At least, that is the primary reason it's banned. Although it could also be potentially dangerous on its own, that's not the stated reason for the ban.

obOldSchoolMasking: After his 100m win at the Seoul Olympics, Ben Johnson showed up for the urine test smashed - he was dead drunk. Turns out, when he got off the track, his handlers rushed him to the change room, where he guzzled 6-7 beers in 'celebration'. The idea was the beer would dilute the urine to the point of making the Furanzobol/Stanzolol undetectable!

[Zool]

If Fat Williams is using diuretics to maintain his weight, how the hell is he still that damn big? Bastard must be eating an all cheese diet to offset those "meds".

From what I've read, those water pills can be used to mask steroids.

Heard that same thing. Smoke, fire.....etc

[mraynrand]

You mean Pat Williams/Grady Jackson et al are taking medications to reduce weight??
This isn't about losing weight, it's about a masking agent, isn't it? The diuretic is being used to mask other (performance enhancing) substances.

At least, that is the primary reason it's banned. Although it could also be potentially dangerous on its own, that's not the stated reason for the ban.

obOldSchoolMasking: After his 100m win at the Seoul Olympics, Ben Johnson showed up for the urine test smashed - he was dead drunk. Turns out, when he got off the track, his handlers rushed him to the change room, where he guzzled 6-7 beers in 'celebration'. The idea was the beer would dilute the urine to the point of making the Furanzobol/Stanzolol undetectable!

He should have had a couple more beers.

[cpk1994]

If Fat Williams is using diuretics to maintain his weight, how the hell is he still that damn big? Bastard must be eating an all cheese diet to offset those "meds".Probably put a couple of OCB's out of business. :lol:

[Guiness]

obOldSchoolMasking: After his 100m win at the Seoul Olympics, Ben Johnson showed up for the urine test smashed - he was dead drunk. Turns out, when he got off the track, his handlers rushed him to the change room, where he guzzled 6-7 beers in 'celebration'. The idea was the beer would dilute the urine to the point of making the Furanzobol/Stanzolol undetectable!

He should have had a couple more beers.

Actually - shoulda had better QC of his drugs.

He thought he was taking Furanzobol - considered undetectable at the time, I believe it was East Germany's latest invention. However, he was actually taking Stanzolol, (better known by its trade name Winstrol V) a horse steroid that sets off more alarms than a same-sex marriage certificate signed by Jerry Falwell!

[mngolf19]

These tests were during training camp and Pat was put on PUP list early on due to weight issues. So I can see it being true at least on his part. But you still should know better. As far as how this affects Childress, I think it gives him some reprieve from the perspective of how many wins needed. (unfortunately) This is out of his control as was Madieu and McKinnie. I still think with those latter 2 out, he would have been held to 10 wins and a playoff victory requirement to keep his job. Now, as long as he doesn't lose all remaining games he probably gets another year. :x

[MJZiggy]

If Childress gets fired, does he ever get another head coaching gig?

[RashanGary]

If Childress gets fired, does he ever get another head coaching gig?

I'm guessing no, but if he does I hope it's either the Lions or Bears.

[retailguy]

If Childress gets fired, does he ever get another head coaching gig?

What do you suppose ppl said about Bellicheck when Cleveland fired him?

Never say never.

[MJZiggy]

If Childress gets fired, does he ever get another head coaching gig?

What do you suppose ppl said about Bellicheck when Cleveland fired him?

Never say never.

I wonder who'd hire him? Detroit? Hey! New GM!!

[cpk1994]

If Fat Williams is using diuretics to maintain his weight, how the hell is he still that damn big? Bastard must be eating an all cheese diet to offset those "meds".

From what I've read, those water pills can be used to mask steroids.YEs they can, but I have heard from Vikings fans that I know that steroids wasn't what they were masking,

[Rastak]

My understanding is that this drug was recently added to the banned list because it can double as a steroid mask. I do not know how recently. In addition, the banned drug was not listed as an ingredient in the weight loss supplement. 15 players got dinged after it got added so I'd be a bit surprised if the league went forward with a 4 game suspension on these players.

[Zool]

Its been on the list long enough for some players to try and get Dr prescriptions to keep taking it and hire a lawyer to oversee the appeals.

[Rastak]

Its been on the list long enough for some players to try and get Dr prescriptions to keep taking it and hire a lawyer to oversee the appeals.


Not sure I follow the connection. It takes one phone call (or maybe 10 minutes) to call a DR and I'm sure all 15 have lawyers to oversee the appeals.

I am guessing that suspensions have already been laid down and now the appeals process has started. I'm not sure if the drug was new this year (likely communicated over the summer or even spring) but that would be my guess.

[Zool]

What I mean is the players knew it was on the list and tried to still use it anyways. Otherwise why the prescription? The list is very specific. There doesnt appear to be any gray area. They knew what they were taking and that they shouldnt be taking it.

As for the appeals, one specific lawyer is handling the appeal of 3 or 4 of the guys already.

[HarveyWallbangers]

My understanding is that this drug was recently added to the banned list because it can double as a steroid mask. I do not know how recently. In addition, the banned drug was not listed as an ingredient in the weight loss supplement. 15 players got dinged after it got added so I'd be a bit surprised if the league went forward with a 4 game suspension on these players.

Is it the same water pill that Deuce got busted for? If it is, it's been on the banned list since drug testing started in 1989.

[Rastak]

What I mean is the players knew it was on the list and tried to still use it anyways. Otherwise why the prescription? The list is very specific. There doesnt appear to be any gray area. They knew what they were taking and that they shouldnt be taking it.

As for the appeals, one specific lawyer is handling the appeal of 3 or 4 of the guys already.


No, my understanding is this drug was NOT listed as an ingredient on the supplement so they wouldn't have known. In fact, my further understanding is that the players are considering a damages suit against the manufactorer for not correctly listing what was in the supplement.

I do admit the NFL is clear on player sticking to only approved supplements so they should all stick to just that and not gamble on it.

[Rastak]

My understanding is that this drug was recently added to the banned list because it can double as a steroid mask. I do not know how recently. In addition, the banned drug was not listed as an ingredient in the weight loss supplement. 15 players got dinged after it got added so I'd be a bit surprised if the league went forward with a 4 game suspension on these players.

Is it the same water pill that Deuce got busted for? If it is, it's been on the banned list since drug testing started in 1989.


Not sure, here's what I read today:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/33419924.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiU9PmP:QiUiD3aPc:_Yyc: aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiU



A prescription diuretic approved by the Food and Drug Administration in 1983 could become a familiar name to football fans in 2008.

It's bumetanide.

Several players, including two Vikings, reportedly have tested positive for the drug, which recently was added to the NFL's list of banned substances.



ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported Sunday that the number of players testing positive for bumetanide could exceed 15. Mortensen also reported that several of those players are considering a suit against the manufacturer of StarCaps, a weight-loss supplement they claim did not disclose bumetanide on its label.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Why players take anything that isn't approved/provided by their teams is beyond me. There has been so much publicity and hysteria in sports lately about these things that they need to be smarter.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Dup post.

[HarveyWallbangers]

ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported Sunday that the number of players testing positive for bumetanide could exceed 15. Mortensen also reported that several of those players are considering a suit against the manufacturer of StarCaps, a weight-loss supplement they claim did not disclose bumetanide on its label.

Reports have come out saying that the original number reported is too high, and that 6-8 players have been busted. Not that it matters. Ignorance is no excuse.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ag2nzc8iPfyhTLrh9HfIcs25bZ8u?slug=ap-nfldoping&prov=ap&type=lgns


Six to eight players are under investigation by the NFL for violating the league’s drug policy by taking a weight-loss diuretic that is considered a masking agent for steroids.

A person familiar with the case provided the number of players involved Monday, saying estimates of a higher figure were untrue.

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/Deuce-McAllister-sounds-oddly-hopeful;_ylt=AnPIIl4rU8tabBOQKGHnlL.5bZ8u?urn=fant asy,117599


McAllister reportedly tested positive for something called "Bumetanide," a potent diuretic that can be used as a masking agent. Bumetanide has been banned by the NFL since 1989...

You can't bet on the NFL being lenient, though. As the Times-Picayune says, "Overturned suspensions happen about once a solstice." And again, McAllister reportedly tested positive for a substance that's been forbidden since 1989, and that was allegedly contained in a product that's been available for over 20 years.

[Rastak]

Nice headline on the yahoo top article, they might want to employ an editor....LOL


There is certainly some conflicting info out there.

[Pacopete4]

Ras, you'll know more than us... who are their backups and are they serviceable for 4 games to keep the vikings in the playoff hunt?

[Rastak]

Ras, you'll know more than us... who are their backups and are they serviceable for 4 games to keep the vikings in the playoff hunt?


Anything's possible. Pat Williams doesn't get near the snaps he used to but it would be a pretty big blow to lose Kevin Williams.

[mngolf19]

Ras, you'll know more than us... who are their backups and are they serviceable for 4 games to keep the vikings in the playoff hunt?


Anything's possible. Pat Williams doesn't get near the snaps he used to but it would be a pretty big blow to lose Kevin Williams.

Third-year nose tackle Fred Evans is the primary backup to Pat Williams and eight-year veteran Ellis Wyms plays behind Kevin Williams. Rookie Letroy Guion is third on the depth chart behind Wyms. Evans from what I can tell plays all passing downs is possible and maybe a third of the other downs. Wyms plays about a third of the plays but I think plays in other positions as well. Guion was interesting in preseason, whatever that means, but he does seem to get sacks whenever he plays. I believe he has at least one this season in limited time. Depends on what 4 games they miss but with Henderson already out this will require 10 more points a game by the offense in my opinion.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The Williams boys have a mystique about them which is well deserved against the run. If they come out, I believe it will be a big blow to the Vikes as teams won't shy away from the run nearly as much.