I have the #1 pick in fantasy football, who do I pick?

[BlueBrewer]

The scoring goes as follows:
RB and REC

1 Point ever 10 yards rushing
1 point every 10 yards receiving
1 point every reception
6 points per td
bonuses @ 100 and 200 yards.

QB
1 point every 25 yards rec
1point every 10 yards rushing
4 points every td throwing
6points rushing td

[BlueBrewer]

I am leaning towards Larry Johnson assuming that Priest is done.

[Partial]

Peyton?

[Rastak]

Peyton?


Yea, that would be mine as well....but Johnson isn't a bad pick either.

Shaun Alexander is still good despite the loss of the outstanding gaurd Steve Hutchinson (had to throw that in..... :smile: )

[BlueBrewer]

QBs get 4 points for tds and 1 point every 25 yards passing, it has to be a rb according to scoring.

[BallHawk]

I'm really not buying the Johnson hype. Yes, he produced great numbers last season, but for half the season. If he goes 16 game and gives 1500+ then I will recognize him as a top back, but until he produces he isn't a number 1 pick, IMO.

If you can trade down than trade down and get a RB like Tiki Barber, he is gonna produce.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Joey Harrington. Believe it or not, this is Harrington's breakout year. Look for a 66. 2% 4500 yds 45 tds 10 ints from Harrington, enroute to being name the NFL MVP. This is the year of the ONE.

[Tony Oday]

ARE YOU KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Johnson rushed for that in a HALF OF A SEASON! good lord I wish I was in your league if you are not giving johnson the #1 pick!

[The Leaper]

In a league that credits receptions, I would take LT. With the loss of Brees, SD is going to rely even more on Tomlinson to pound the ball on the ground. Rivers also will be more likely to dump the ball into the flat because of his inexperience, so LT is likely to exceed 60 receptions this year.

LT = 1900 tot yards, 60 catches, 20 TD = 370 pts
LJ = 2000 tot yards, 35 catches, 22 TD = 367 pts

LT has higher upside too...because he could easily put up 80-100 catches if Gates or a starting WR goes down to injury. LT should be the #1 pick in just about any league that rewards receptions for RBs.

[MJZiggy]

You mean you're not taking TO?

[Tony Oday]

but a full year of Johnson cmon :)

[PackerPro42]

Larry Johnson. Plain and simple.

[TravisWilliams23]

I'd take LJ over Manning. Losing James might hurt
Peyton more than anyone realizes

[Deputy Nutz]

I have a hard time not going with Tomlinson. He gets it done while rushinga and catching the ball. That alone will rack up the points. Larry is a monsters but, I don't think he catches too many balls out of the backfield.

Tomlinson might struggle with Rivers at QB, but this guy has gotten it done year in and year out, even when they were shitty, so I don't think it matters who he has at QB

[bbbffl66]

I can't believe nobody is thinking Alexander. All the guy did was set the TD record last year. Sure the 'hawks lost Hutchinson, but as TT showed us last year, guards are easy to replace.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Larry Johnson. He was even better than Alexander when he started last year, Priest is as good as retired, and Alexander isn't playing for a contract this year.

[Deputy Nutz]

Alexander might scare some people off, because he is past 28 years old. I would take him in the first round, but not with the first pick. I would either go with LJ or LT.

[HarveyWallbangers]

LT = 1900 tot yards, 60 catches, 20 TD = 370 pts
LJ = 2000 tot yards, 35 catches, 22 TD = 367 pts

How many games started. What were the stats after Priest went out?

Those stats, and Johnson didn't get more than 9 carries in his first 4 games and he only got more than 13 carries the first 7 games. He's sick! Basically, his stats were with him starting a little over 1/2 the games.

How the heck could you pass on this?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6363/gamelog

He had 1300+ yards rushing (1600+ total yards) and 17 TDs in his last 9 games.

[OS PA]

Top three in any league should go LT, LJ, and Shaun Alexander.

All three are close to a wash, but i'd still pick LT due to his situation. The team without Drew Brees is going to lose some of it's vertical attack, and rely more heavily on the rushing/short passing attack.

LJ lost nothing around him.

LT lost his quarterback.

SA lost his road-grater.


All three will have good seasons, but I just think that losing his quarterback is the best thing that could have happened to LT. Sure it takes away the threat of a passing attack and defenses can focus more on the RB, but are any teams just going to forget about Antonio Gates? No. McCardell is going to lose speed one of these years, which would leave LT and Gates the only dependables on the offense. And with only two roleplayers there should be enough balls to go around.

[MadtownPacker]

Larry Johnson all the way!!!! PManning will kill you late in the season if he doesnt play much like the last couple of years. The Chiefs have been in the playoff hunt late into the season the last couple of years.

LJ or LT, no way to a QB.

[BlueBrewer]

My only hesitance with LT is that defenses will be focusing more on him and making Rivers beat them.

[RashanGary]

LT

[Bossman641]

Larry Johnson all the way. He was unstoppable last year in half a season.

I think defenses will heavily focus on LT and force Rivers to prove he can beat them deep.

[BlueBrewer]

Who do you think should follow Lj Lt Alexander?

[PackerPro42]

I think Egde should pollow thos players. Even though he is in a new system I think he'll do good.

[BlueBrewer]

oh yeah I forgot about edge, how long do you think he has left?

[PackerPro42]

I think he still has a good 3-5 years left in those amazing legs.

[BlueBrewer]

didn't he blow out a couple of knees?

[PackerPro42]

You know, I didn't really start following him until the Colts started winning.

[Joemailman]

The choice for #1 depends on your tolerance for risk. Johnson may have more upside than anyone, but has never played a full season. Tomlinson and Alexander are a sure bet to be among top 5 scorers, but may not have as much potential for a monster season as Johnson.

[MadtownPacker]

Tomlinson and Alexander are a sure bet to be among top 5 scorers, but may not have as much potential for a monster season as Johnson.

Thats all you need to know. You wanna play to win? Get LJ. His team is mostly the same if not better and at the end of last season nothing could be done to stop them from running the ball. LJ is in his prime and his time now.

[PackerPro42]

That is a great point. LJ has the most potential out of anyone and I think I would take him.

[BallHawk]

LT, has proved he can go a whole season and produce great numbers. Larry Johnson has not.

[the_idle_threat]

I vote for Larry Johnson. Regarding who is in the next tier, don't overlook Ronnie Brown. He gained 900 yards with 4.4 ypc last year, and this year he won't be splitting carries with Rasta Williams.

[Bossman641]

didn't he blow out a couple of knees?

James had a knee injury in 2001. The next year he came back and averaged well below his career numbers. Since then he has returned to form. I think he'll have a good year with the weapons the Cards have, but I'd never take him #1.

[Bretsky]

That is a great point. LJ has the most potential out of anyone and I think I would take him.

Been wrestling with this; I'd still go

LT
LJ
Alexander

and then Edge and Payton one way or the other.

[SD GB fan]

LT baby! the dudes been producing like crazy ever since he got into this league. its a shame that the best talent at RB has to grind out 1500 yards every year due to average linemen while the other AFC west teams (cept the raiders who always suck) simply plug in any RB behind their awesome o-lines for 1000 yards. dont worry about opposing defenses stacking 8 to stop LT..its been done for most of the past 5 years anyways. Denver's RBs are too unpredictable and inconsistent. LJ was good last year but their dominant line is aging. Hell, LT will throw TDs too if rivers doesnt work out :wink:

watching LT at RB is like favre at QB, without the int of course. im glad i lived in wisconsin and now in san diego.

[MJZiggy]

Did you pick it yet? Who did you go with?

[The Leaper]

My only hesitance with LT is that defenses will be focusing more on him and making Rivers beat them.

Defenses have been focusing on LT for years...and haven't stopped him yet. He WAS the San Diego offense his first 3 years in the league...before Brees and Gates established themselves.

If you are hesitant about LT...you should be twice as hesitant about Larry Johnson in that regard.

[BlueBrewer]

Did you pick it yet? Who did you go with?

We don't draft until late August, I just thought it would make for good conversation until training camp.

[The Leaper]

He had 1300+ yards rushing (1600+ total yards) and 17 TDs in his last 9 games.

So you are saying Johnson is a lock for 2500 yards rushing then? Sorry, I don't see it. Teams didn't give Johnson the same respect they gave Holmes...and it cost them. They won't make that mistake again.

[HarveyWallbangers]

No, I'm not saying that. He can do worse than he did last year (per game) and still do better than LT (when he had a QB, so teams couldn't completely stack against the run) or Alexander (in a contract year).

Want to know why Johnson will be mint? Waters, Shields, Roaf, and Wiegmann. It's a unit that is as good or better than the 2004 Packers OL. Alexander lost one of his two best OL and Tomlinson's OL is average.

[Partial]

I would agree with Harv to an extent. You cannot argue teams underestimated him. When you put up 107, 135, and then 211 yards in three weeks teams take notice and game plan for you. He had a great offensive line and they just kept feeding him the ball. I always thought he'd be a solid back, but never have a season like he did last year.

[BlueBrewer]

Ok unless something drastic happens before the start of the season I am going to draft Larry Johnson.









or LT

[gureski]

No, I'm not saying that. He can do worse than he did last year (per game) and still do better than LT (when he had a QB, so teams couldn't completely stack against the run) or Alexander (in a contract year).

Want to know why Johnson will be mint? Waters, Shields, Roaf, and Wiegmann. It's a unit that is as good or better than the 2004 Packers OL. Alexander lost one of his two best OL and Tomlinson's OL is average.

I've researched this subject and the fact is that Johnson and the K.C. line are produtcs of Vermeil's offense and hype. There is great reason for concern regarding Johnson and the Chiefs offense but you're not hearing anything about it because it doesn't jive with the pre-determined notion that Johnson is gold this year.

The facts show that prior to D.Vermeil showing up on the scene in K.C., it had been 10 years since the Chiefs had fielded a 1,000 yard rusher. Vermeil took most of the same offensive linemen and bumped an unknown ball-carrier named P.Holmes to over 1,500 yards in Vermeil's first season with the team.

Vermeil's offense set records in S.L. and again in K.C., specifically with regards to the guy carrying the ball. K.C. never had a defense during Vermeil's tenure either thus causing the Chiefs to often attempt to 'outscore' teams in order to win. All that is gone now.

The bottom line is that Vermeil and his offense made the K.C. line. Vermeil and his offense made the RB position in K.C. worth its weight in gold to FF owners. Replace the offensive minded coach (Dick Vermeil) with a defensive minded coach (Herm Edwards) and there is no way that Johnson will receive the same opportunities on offense this year. Playcalling from a head coach that wants to outscore opponents is way different then the playcalling from a guy who believes that you win with defense. It's naive to think that Herm Edwards will suddenly change his philosophy from a staunch defensive one to an offensive.

With regards to Seattle, it's one lineman on a team that is in the midst of its Superbowl window! One lineman will not slow Alexander and the high powered Seahawk offense. That's spin to invoke this as a reason to place Johnson over Alexander. The entire Seattle Offense is in-tact except for one guard and they've brought in N.Burleson to add to the passing attack.

In S.D., Tomlinson is about to play with a young but capable QB. Most offensive coordinators tend to call more running plays with young QB's AND young QB's tend to dump off more balls to RB's and TE's in their early years. Tomlinson could be in for a career year.

And back to Johnson....I'll give Packer fans a real life example of why you should be concerned about Herm Edwards defensive philosophy and how it could interfere with Johnson's stats this year.

Remember Ray Rhodes in 1999? Remember the Carolina game? He wouldn't call the time out and give the offense a chance to win the game. That's what defensive minded coaches do. They believe defense wins games and it shows in way they coach and the plays they call and how they manage a game. The Packers offense stunk under Rhodes and he kept most of the same pieces together that were in place before him. He even had the same offensive coordinator!

Don't be fooled into thinking that Chief offense will just roll on... Packer fans have seen what happens when you take the author of a great offense away and replace him with a defensive minded coach. Trade the #1 to some sucker that's buying into the hype for Johnson. If you can move to 2 or 3 and get Alexander or Tomlinson then do it. If you go down to 4 even and take Portis then that's okay too.

[4and12to12and4]

Joey Harrington. Believe it or not, this is Harrington's breakout year. Look for a 66. 2% 4500 yds 45 tds 10 ints from Harrington, enroute to being name the NFL MVP. This is the year of the ONE.


Whatever your smoking, pass the pipe. 45 tds? That must've been sarcasm!!!!

[Partial]

No, I'm not saying that. He can do worse than he did last year (per game) and still do better than LT (when he had a QB, so teams couldn't completely stack against the run) or Alexander (in a contract year).

Want to know why Johnson will be mint? Waters, Shields, Roaf, and Wiegmann. It's a unit that is as good or better than the 2004 Packers OL. Alexander lost one of his two best OL and Tomlinson's OL is average.

I've researched this subject and the fact is that Johnson and the K.C. line are produtcs of Vermeil's offense and hype. There is great reason for concern regarding Johnson and the Chiefs offense but you're not hearing anything about it because it doesn't jive with the pre-determined notion that Johnson is gold this year.

The facts show that prior to D.Vermeil showing up on the scene in K.C., it had been 10 years since the Chiefs had fielded a 1,000 yard rusher. Vermeil took most of the same offensive linemen and bumped an unknown ball-carrier named P.Holmes to over 1,500 yards in Vermeil's first season with the team.

Vermeil's offense set records in S.L. and again in K.C., specifically with regards to the guy carrying the ball. K.C. never had a defense during Vermeil's tenure either thus causing the Chiefs to often attempt to 'outscore' teams in order to win. All that is gone now.

The bottom line is that Vermeil and his offense made the K.C. line. Vermeil and his offense made the RB position in K.C. worth its weight in gold to FF owners. Replace the offensive minded coach (Dick Vermeil) with a defensive minded coach (Herm Edwards) and there is no way that Johnson will receive the same opportunities on offense this year. Playcalling from a head coach that wants to outscore opponents is way different then the playcalling from a guy who believes that you win with defense. It's naive to think that Herm Edwards will suddenly change his philosophy from a staunch defensive one to an offensive.

With regards to Seattle, it's one lineman on a team that is in the midst of its Superbowl window! One lineman will not slow Alexander and the high powered Seahawk offense. That's spin to invoke this as a reason to place Johnson over Alexander. The entire Seattle Offense is in-tact except for one guard and they've brought in N.Burleson to add to the passing attack.

In S.D., Tomlinson is about to play with a young but capable QB. Most offensive coordinators tend to call more running plays with young QB's AND young QB's tend to dump off more balls to RB's and TE's in their early years. Tomlinson could be in for a career year.

And back to Johnson....I'll give Packer fans a real life example of why you should be concerned about Herm Edwards defensive philosophy and how it could interfere with Johnson's stats this year.

Remember Ray Rhodes in 1999? Remember the Carolina game? He wouldn't call the time out and give the offense a chance to win the game. That's what defensive minded coaches do. They believe defense wins games and it shows in way they coach and the plays they call and how they manage a game. The Packers offense stunk under Rhodes and he kept most of the same pieces together that were in place before him. He even had the same offensive coordinator!

Don't be fooled into thinking that Chief offense will just roll on... Packer fans have seen what happens when you take the author of a great offense away and replace him with a defensive minded coach. Trade the #1 to some sucker that's buying into the hype for Johnson. If you can move to 2 or 3 and get Alexander or Tomlinson then do it. If you go down to 4 even and take Portis then that's okay too.



One must remember that Curtis Martin had 1942 yards (with 1697 rushing) in 2004-2005 from scrimmage in Herm Edwards' offense. Every season except last (he was hurt) he rushed for over 1000 yards, averaging 1403 yards rushing for each season herm edwards was there (not including his injured 2005 campaign). Over Edwards' stint, Martin averaged 1700.25 yards from scrimmage each season. I would say thats pretty darn good for a back. I expect LJ can do better with his amazing offensive line.

[the_idle_threat]

This makes sense, as defensive-minded coaches tend to favor a strong running game. I'm sure Herm Edwards is overjoyed to have a great O-line and LJ at his disposal.

[pittstang5]

OH MY F'N GOD! You guys are killing me. I draft # 2 with a bunch of bobos and will probably be able to pick whoever I want. I'm still undecided - LT or LJ. I'm thinking LT just because he has produced each and every year. Although LJ could payoff big time. Maybe with the group I'm playing against, I might even be able to snag both...wouldn't that Rock!

[Zool]

Want to know why Johnson will be mint?

No what I want to know is, are you attempting to bring back "mint"? That would be bitchin and rad if I could start using mint again.

[the_idle_threat]

Tubular!

[The Leaper]

I agree with Gureski.

The inexperienced QB means Tomlinson is going to get more work, both in the flat in the passing game and in the red zone in the running game. Tomlinson is a blue chip performer who has missed one game in 5 years...and put up monster numbers every year. He was the lone option in San Diego for several years early in his career, and was never stopped.

Johnson is a great back behind a great OL...but the change in coaching philosophy WILL have an impact on Johnson's numbers. Curtis Martin had one huge year under Herm in 2004...but never did Martin put up huge TD numbers. Martin has averaged 9 total TDs a year from 2000-2004, which includes both of his best seasons in NY. Herm doesn't mind bringing in a fresh runner at the goal line to push it in if he has confidence in the guy. If Priest Holmes comes back in 2006, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Priest take a lot of goal line carries away from Johnson. Now, if Priest doesn't come back...then I think Johnson becomes more of a possibility as a #1 overall pick. Right now, that is all up in the air.

Thinking Johnson is automatically going to replicate what he did last year under a different coaching staff just seems like a stretch to me.

[BlueBrewer]

Now I am confused all over again, the number one pick is dangerous.

[SD GB fan]

no need for confusion my friend...

LT! LT! LT!

if u have ANY speed and enough muscle to take the pounding, u will be able to rush 1000 yards beyond KC's line. i dun think larry johnson is all that great, just lucky to be on a good offense. and remember LJ got benched some time last season, meaning that the team doesnt depend on him to win. LT will nvr see the bench unless he fumbles 3 times (which he wont) or SD is up by 30 pts. (in which pt, LT probably alrdy scored 2-3 TDs)

[gureski]

"One must remember that Curtis Martin had 1942 yards (with 1697 rushing) in 2004-2005 from scrimmage in Herm Edwards' offense. Every season except last (he was hurt) he rushed for over 1000 yards, averaging 1403 yards rushing for each season herm edwards was there (not including his injured 2005 campaign). Over Edwards' stint, Martin averaged 1700.25 yards from scrimmage each season. I would say thats pretty darn good for a back. I expect LJ can do better with his amazing offensive line."

end quote

First, let's put your information into context.

The season you quote happens to be the best year in the very very impressive career of Curtis Martin and it occurred with the most carries (371) that he had in his career. Using someone's career year to make your point is a somewhat deceptive way to get others to take your side.

Dick Vermeil took over the Chiefs in 2001 as did Herm Edwards take over the Jets in 2001.

Here are the year by year team offensive totals for the two respective teams:

2001
Jets 308 pts Chiefs 320

2002
Jets 359 Chiefs 467

2003
Jets 283 pts Chiefs 484

2004
Jets 333 Chiefs 483

2005
Jets 240 Chiefs 403

Dick Vermeil led teams, with less talent during the early years, consistantly outscored the Herm Edwards teams every single year. While Edwards had the established Pro-Bowler C.Martin in his backfield during Martin's prime, Vermeil had to create a star with P.Holmes.

Vermeil's offense's scored 400 plus points every year but one. Herm Edwards teams passed the 350 mark one season out of five.

What this establishes is that the Dick Vermeil teams scored way more points then Herm Edwards led teams. It's not even close.

But, you may say, this is about the RB. Yes, and let's compare the numbers for the RBs from 2001 through 2005.

2001
C.Martin 1,513 rush 10 TD 320 rec 0 TD
P.Holmes 1,555 rush 8 TD 614 Rec 2 TD

2002
C.Martin 1,094 rush 7 TD 362 rec 0 TD
P.Holmes 1,615 rush 21 TD 672 Rec 3 TD

2003
C.Martin 1,308 rush 2 TD 262 rec 0 TD
P.Holmes 1,420 rush 27 TD 690 rec 0 TD

2004
C.Martin 1,697 rush 12 TD 245 rec 2 TD
P.Holmes 892 rush 14 TD 187 rec 1 TD

2005
C.Martin 220 rush 5 TD 118 rec 0 TD
P.Holmes 451 rush 6 TD 197 rec 1 TD

Which RB situation would you rather have had during this 5 year stretch? 38 TD's for Martin and 80 for P.Holmes. That's twice as many RB TD's to the main ball carrier for the Vermeil led teams then the Edwards led teams. AND both RB's faced injuries and missed games during this tenure so it's not injuries as the reason. Vermeil is simply an offensive genius who set records in S.L. and in K.C.. He's an offensive coach who set out to outscore opponents on a weekly basis. Edwards is a defensive minded coach who runs the ball and sucks the clock down while winning with defense. Two opposite spectrums of the football universe are at work here. You cannot say that Edwards RB's are the same as Vermeil's RB's. It wont stand the test if you look at the numbers.

ON the offensive line. You continue to assert that the line is 'Great'. For those that wish to dig and research a bit you'll find that the Cheifs running game couldn't establish a stud ball-carrier from 1997 thru 2000 and that was with Shields on the line and Szott and it was under Marty Schottenheimer for 97-98 and then Gunther Cunningham in 99
and 2000. Dick Vermiel took that same line and added an unknown
ball-carrier in Priest Holmes and INSTANTLY made Holmes a house-hold
fantasy FF name. The first year Vermeil and his offense was on the scene
(2001) Holmes became the main ball carrier and rushed for 1,555 yards.

The leading rushers for the years prior to Vermeil coming aboard were as
follows:

2000 Tony Richardson 697 yards
1999 Donnell Bennett 627 yards
1998 Donnell Bennett 527 yards
1997 Greg Hill 550 yards

You have to go back to 1991 to find a Cheif RB who hit the 1,000 yard mark
(Okoye with 1,031 yards) and the Cheifs had Marcus Allen running the ball
for them for several of those seasons between 1991 and 2001!

The point here is that the impact that Vermeil had on the K.C. offense and
the running game was profound and is not being respected right now. Vermeil took most of the same O-linemen that were blocking in 97, 98, 99, and 2000 and got them to bounce P.Holmes up to 1,550 yards in his first season.

Who made who? Was the line that good or did Vermeil's offense make that
line? Stats seem to indicate that Vermeil's offense made the line that
everyone is pointing at as a sure-fire reason why Johnson is a no-brainer.

So, again....before you assert again that the line is the sure-fire reason why Johnson will be so good....ask yourself why they got the reputation they have as being so good? It was Dick Vermeil that made that line.


The debate isn't over whether or not Johnson will have a 'Good' season and it's not over whether or not Herm Edwards has been able to get a RB over 1,000 for the past several seasons. The debate is over whether or not Larry Johnson is going to be so good this year that he will be the #1 overall pick in FF. To look at last year and think that Johnson will pick right back up where he left off is naive. Too many changes have taken place for that to happen and beyond those 9 games last year, what had Johnson ever shown? 2 years ago he couldnt' beat out D.Blaylock in K.C.! Johnson is being hyped as the safe pick but in reality it's Tomlinson or Alexander that are the safe picks.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Vermeil had a good influence, but I think you overrate him a tad. He had great players in St. Louis and Kansas City.

I think his offense helped his QBs (Warner and Green) with the dink and dunk passing, but St. Louis had Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, and guys like Orlando Pace on the OL. Kansas City had guys like Priest Holmes, Tony Gonzalez, Brian Waters, Will Shields, Willie Roaf, Larry Johnson.

You can credit Vermeil all you want, but in 2001 Kansas City acquired Trent Green and Priest Holmes and Brian Waters became a starting OG. They may have had something to do with their success. St. Louis (and the likes of Faulk, Bruce, Holt) didn't exactly fall apart offensively after he left.

[the_idle_threat]

I'll even grant that Dick Vermiel was a difference-maker. I do believe his ability to teach and inspire made a very big difference to his teams. But now that he's gone, I don't expect his former players to forget how to play offense at a high level. They've learned what they need to learn, and now all they have to do is go out and do it.

Now I don't expect LJ to pick up on his previous pace and put up over 2500 yards for a full season, but I think he will be among the league leaders in Yds and TDs. What more can you ask of a #1 pick?

Meanwhile, LT lost his QB, and Shaun Alexander lost one of his best blockers, so there are legitimate questions surrounding both. Fact is, there really is no consensus #1 pick this year.

[The Leaper]

Meanwhile, LT lost his QB, and Shaun Alexander lost one of his best blockers, so there are legitimate questions surrounding both. Fact is, there really is no consensus #1 pick this year.

LT didn't have ANYONE around him on offense when he first came to San Diego...and still put up monster numbers. I don't see how there is any question surrounding how he will do without Brees. Remember, when Tomlinson was on a team previously with an inexperienced young QB...he put up a 100 catch season. In a league that gives credit for receptions to a RB, that would make him untouchable. His receptions went down recently as Brees gained experience and was more confident downfield. You can expect LTs reception numbers to increase in 2006 as Rivers will take more checkdowns because of his inexperience.

There is no question in my mind regarding LT. If he is healthy for 15 or 16 games, he is going to put up 1800+ total yards and 16+ TDs. He has done it consistently for 5 years...with a constantly changing supporting cast, both talent poor and talent rich. Anyone who suggests there is a question about LT simply hasn't watched the guy perform during his career.

[Bretsky]

Now I am confused all over again, the number one pick is dangerous.

No need to be confused; draft LT

[Brandon494]

Def. would go with LT, you know Marty is going to be giving him the ball a lot this season esp. after losing Brees during the offseason.

[gureski]

"Vermeil had a good influence, but I think you overrate him a tad. He had great players in St. Louis and Kansas City.

I think his offense helped his QBs (Warner and Green) with the dink and dunk passing, but St. Louis had Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, and guys like Orlando Pace on the OL. Kansas City had guys like Priest Holmes, Tony Gonzalez, Brian Waters, Will Shields, Willie Roaf, Larry Johnson.

You can credit Vermeil all you want, but in 2001 Kansas City acquired Trent Green and Priest Holmes and Brian Waters became a starting OG. They may have had something to do with their success. St. Louis (and the likes of Faulk, Bruce, Holt) didn't exactly fall apart offensively after he left"

end quote

How can you overrate a guy who took two different failing teams and built them into offensive juggernauts? Why is it you can quote names like Warner, Green, Faulk, Bruce, Holt, Pace, Holmes, Waters, and Johnson? Dick Vermeil and his offense, that's why.

None of those guys were real stars til Vermeil came along. It's not like P.Holmes showed up to K.C. as an established Pro-Bowl RB. Warner was a nobody and he had been through different camps and teams in the NFL with no success. Trent Green hadn't started more then half a season before coming to K.C.! Faulk was stagnating in Indianapolis before the trade to the Rams. He only took off with Vermeil. All these guys owe a great deal to Vermeil and his offense because it's that good. Those players became great under Vermeil. They didn't come to Vermeil the way they were when he left.

And a last point on this.....Dick Vermeil left Mike Martz, his main assistant and offensive coordinator, as the head coach in S.L.. Martz is an offensive minded coach. The main assistant in K.C. was Al Saunders and he's in Washington now. You've got the former offensive line coach of K.C. as their new offensive coordinator and you've got a defensive minded head coach taking over the decision making. This is no where near the transition from Vermeil to Martz in S.L..

[jack's smirking revenge]

LT2 is the way to go.

tyler

[Partial]

We cannot neglect the fact that with KC's offensive line, Priest routinely put up big numbers, including setting the single season rushing touchdown record at the time.

LaDainian (2001-2005)
Yards Touchdowns Average Total Yards Total TD
1236 10 3.6 1603 10
1683 14 4.5 2172 16
1645 13 5.3 2370 17
1335 17 3.9 1776 18
1462 18 4.3 1832 22

Priest (2001-2005)
Yards Touchdowns Average Total Yards Total TD
1555 08 4.8 2287 10
1615 21 5.2 2110 24
1420 27 4.4 1832 27
892 14 4.6 1079 15
451 06 3.8 0648 07

Martin (2001-2005)
Yards Touchdowns Average Total Yards Total TD
1513 10 4.5 1833 13
1094 07 4.2 1456 07
1308 02 4.0 1570 02
1697 12 4.6 1942 14
0735 05 3.3 0853 05


Well, consistently in terms of FF scoring it looks to me at a glance without doing that math that priest, behind the chiefs titan-sized offensive line would be the highest scorer. However, it is impossible to know if with the coaching change they will continue to have that success. Being a risk taker and realizing it's just a game, i'd probably take LJ. However, LT is looking like a good, safe choice as well.

[gureski]

I'll even grant that Dick Vermiel was a difference-maker. I do believe his ability to teach and inspire made a very big difference to his teams. But now that he's gone, I don't expect his former players to forget how to play offense at a high level. They've learned what they need to learn, and now all they have to do is go out and do it.

Now I don't expect LJ to pick up on his previous pace and put up over 2500 yards for a full season, but I think he will be among the league leaders in Yds and TDs. What more can you ask of a #1 pick?

Meanwhile, LT lost his QB, and Shaun Alexander lost one of his best blockers, so there are legitimate questions surrounding both. Fact is, there really is no consensus #1 pick this year.

(I'm just jawing with you here so don't take this in a negative way...we're just debating) Big of you to grant that a guy who set records with his offense in two seperate cities made a big difference. You have to give that point. It's indisputable. It happened. It's on record. It's factual and backed by statistics. That's the whole point. Larry Johnson did what he did last year within the confines of Dick Vermeil's offense and offensive minded coaching/game management.

You say you think the players know how to play that offense now so it doesn't matter if Vermeil is there or not. If that theory is true then explain how the Packers forgot how to play offense the way they had under Holmgren after Ray Rhodes took over? And Rhodes had the exact same offensive coordinator! K.C. doesn't have that! Not only did K.C. lose the author of the offense they're running, they also lost the offensive coordinator AND they replaced the guy making decisions with a defensive minded coach!

You can have the same players and plays but produce less if the plays called are different. Again, see G.B. in 1999 for a real life example.

It's funny you mention the 2,500 yards thing. In FF circles, that's exactly what people are saying about Johnson for this season. They ARE saying he will challenge 2,000 yards rushing and put up 30 TD's! He's being WAY over-hyped. If you look at the normal running year from a H.Edwards offense you'll see that his backs get roughly 300 to 320 carries and put up 1,250 to 1,400 yards rushing and 7 to 10 TD's per year. Because he's a defensive minded coach, you will see less offense out of his teams because his philosophy on winning is different than that of a guy like Vermeil or Martz who want to score opponents into submission. It's because of that philosophy that it's hard to picture Johnson coming close to his pace of last year and if he doesn't come close to his pace of last year then what's the reason to pick him ahead of established players like Tomlinson and Alexander as the first overall pick?

Tomlinson lost his QB but can you really say Brees is better then Rivers? Scouts felt Rivers had more talent then Brees. I think Rivers will do better then Brees did. And again, it's factual that young QB's tend to throw more short check-downs to RB's. With Tomlinson having already proven himself as a receiver out of the backfield, his reception stats and receiving yardage could go up as a result of Rivers at QB. That's a plus, not a negative.

On Alexander, it's one player on a Superbowl team. The Seahawks are in the middle of their Superbowl window. They have multiple players on offense that are in the prime of their career, Alexander included. They added N.Burleson to bolster the passing game. If the defense has to respect the passing game more then that will open up more lanes for the RB to run. One offensive guard change out of 11 offensive players is NOT going to derail Alexander. It's a stretch to think that the starting RB on a team that is favored by many to return to the Superbowl (at least is considered a serious Superbowl contender) isn't going to be a very lucrative guy to have on your fantasy team.

In the end, I wonder why you think Larry Johnson, with only 9 games under his belt, is less of a risk then two established stud RB's like Tomlinson and Alexander.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I always start my draft with RBs. That's what keeps me in the hunt until the end. With that in mind, the safest bets are the players that continually perform at the top. LT2 and Alexander have been crazygood the last couple of years. They're safe picks. LJ, while he's got potential to be amazing this year with a refocused role, is still a risk at the top of the draft. I don't disagree that he's probably going to have a great year, but you win fantasy competitions by minimizing risks. I go for production over potential--I learned that early on in my FF career. Production pays off; potential, while super sweet if it swings your way, is a gamble.

And, when there's money on the line, I'm going with the safest bets and with the players that have a track record of performance.

The better question is where to pick this year's offensive studs like Bush. Round 4 or 5?

tyler

[gureski]

We cannot neglect the fact that with KC's offensive line, Priest routinely put up big numbers, including setting the single season rushing touchdown record at the time.

Well, consistently in terms of FF scoring it looks to me at a glance without doing that math that priest, behind the chiefs titan-sized offensive line would be the highest scorer. However, it is impossible to know if with the coaching change they will continue to have that success. Being a risk taker and realizing it's just a game, i'd probably take LJ. However, LT is looking like a good, safe choice as well.

In order to assert your stance you have to ignore the fact that the offensive line in K.C. failed to put up even a single 1,000 yard rusher in 10 years before Dick Vermeil came to town! Vermeil took most of the same linemen that couldn't produce even a single 1,000 yard rusher for years and in one single season pushed an unknown ball-carrier named P.Holmes over 1,500 yards! That's in one season using the same pieces that were there!

How can you explain that, if not by giving credit to Vermeil and his offense? K.C. had some very good pro-bowl calibur players back in the 90's. They had Szott and Shields. They had Marcus Allen running the ball for several years. They had some talent. They had Schottenheimer as their coach for a while and yet they couldn't crack a single 1,000 yard rusher. Only Vermeil was able to develop a line that was able to produce big numbers and he did it OVERNIGHT! That tells you it was his scheme. When you take the same players that stink and make them good, you don't then trump the players....you trump the scheme.

I assert the K.C. offensive line is being overhyped as a result of the statistics the K.C. offense put up under Dick Vermeil. It happens. They're good but the only reason they put up the statistics they did was because of Vermeil's offensive mindest. If that same mindset isn't at the top, they will not produce anywhere near the stats that offense has produced over the past 4 years.

[Partial]

Their offensive line finally came together from good coaching, good players, etc. Roaf is a recent addition I know, and I don't really know anything else about the others short of will shields.

If money is on the line, take LT.
If its for fun, take LJ.

[gureski]

I always start my draft with RBs. That's what keeps me in the hunt until the end. With that in mind, the safest bets are the players that continually perform at the top. LT2 and Alexander have been crazygood the last couple of years. They're safe picks. LJ, while he's got potential to be amazing this year with a refocused role, is still a risk at the top of the draft. I don't disagree that he's probably going to have a great year, but you win fantasy competitions by minimizing risks. I go for production over potential--I learned that early on in my FF career. Production pays off; potential, while super sweet if it swings your way, is a gamble.

And, when there's money on the line, I'm going with the safest bets and with the players that have a track record of performance.

The better question is where to pick this year's offensive studs like Bush. Round 4 or 5?

tyler

Your point is well taken regarding the attention you should pay to the track record of a player when selecting high in a draft. This is exactly why my advice to the guy who started this thread is to try to trade the pick. If he can find some sucker who is buying into the hype on Johnson and move the pick and move down 1 or 2 spots and pick up an extra pick in other rounds or move in front of the other player in even numbered rounds then that's the best of both worlds.

Trade the pick, if you can. Try.

[jack's smirking revenge]

Their offensive line finally came together from good coaching, good players, etc. Roaf is a recent addition I know, and I don't really know anything else about the others short of will shields.

If money is on the line, take LT.
If its for fun, take LJ.

I've never been in a fantasy football league where it wasn't cutthroat competitive and chaotic until the end. Fantasy football is definitely fun, but its stressful. I never want to have a 4-10 year again like I did the first year I played. I was lucky to even win 4 games. I drafted poorly, took more risks than I should've and got hit heavily by the injury bug.

FF sucks when you're out of the race by midseason. It sucks when you're even out of the race for bragging rights. Thus, my perspective is always business when it comes to FF.

The benefit of someone taking LJ at the top of the draft is that players such as LT and Alexander and Peyton will drop. I am hopeful that the leagues I'm in this year have people that make risky moves with the first pick. I'll be able to swoop in and build a juggernaut.

tyler

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Fuck LT

Or LJ, bitches!!!

Ahman Green is the guy.

[PackerPro42]

Fuck liberal Ahman Green bithces.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The offensive coaches for Vermeil are now in Detroit and Washington. Since it's the system and not the players, we can expect Kevin Jones and Clinton Portis to be right at the top, I guess.

[SD GB fan]

i know ive been shouting LT LT LT all this time. but im gonna change my choice. go with ricky williams. he cant disappoint. he has "herbal supplements" to back him up.

[LEWCWA]

While a tough choice, the thing you guys are not talking about is the fact this league gives 1 point for receptions! While Johnson has a chance to have a 2000 yard season with 20 td's, LT is pretty much a lock for 1600 yards and 15 tds. The thing that gives LT the edge in this league is the fact that he could very well catch 100 passes for 1000 yards as well! While I think Johnson may have the edge in a league that doesn't give 1 pt. per reception, LT has way more upside in this league. 2000 yards=200, 20 tds=120. Say Johnson catches 40 passes for 320 yards=72 points total=392.
Now LT 1600 yards=160 15 tds=90, 65 catches for 650=130 total=380 Pretty much a wash, but I believe the upside is LT catching 90 passes for 900 yards which would have LT at 430pts and thats why you take LT!!

[chain_gang]

I'd have to take LT, He's still young enough, plus his line is younger. The Chief's line is aging. Roaf is 36, Shields is going on 35, Wiegmann is 33, the other two; Waters 29, and Welbourn 30. I know experience means something, but Roaf, Shields, and Wiegmann have been the main reason the backs have thrived in KC. Holmes, Johnson, even Blaylock for a year before he went to the Jets. I would just be worried that eventually one or two of these guys are going to start missing some game time soon. The depth behind them at guard and center seem to be young and inexperienced, and we all no how that can turn out.

If it was me I'd take LT, you know what your going to get, with LJ you could get a monster year, or age could take its toll on the O-line and he could be a big time bust this year @ #1 overall.

[HarveyWallbangers]

While a tough choice, the thing you guys are not talking about is the fact this league gives 1 point for receptions! While Johnson has a chance to have a 2000 yard season with 20 td's, LT is pretty much a lock for 1600 yards and 15 tds. The thing that gives LT the edge in this league is the fact that he could very well catch 100 passes for 1000 yards as well! While I think Johnson may have the edge in a league that doesn't give 1 pt. per reception, LT has way more upside in this league. 2000 yards=200, 20 tds=120. Say Johnson catches 40 passes for 320 yards=72 points total=392.
Now LT 1600 yards=160 15 tds=90, 65 catches for 650=130 total=380 Pretty much a wash, but I believe the upside is LT catching 90 passes for 900 yards which would have LT at 430pts and thats why you take LT!!

Valid points, and I was not aware of that, so it makes it a tossup. However, I'd hesitate to project LT getting close to 90 catches. Since his monstrous 2003 season, he has had 53 catches for 441 yards in 2004 and 51 catches for 370 yards in 2005. That is with Brees throwing him the pill. I don't see Rivers being as effective as Drew Brees throwing to his TEs or RBs. Brees was a master of the short passes. His arm strength is somewhat questionable and he didn't get it down the field as much. I have a feeling Rivers will be more inclined to look down the field--as a young QB often finds it difficult to checkdown to his third and fourth options.

[LEWCWA]

I had LT at 65 catches and LJ at 40 catches, probably a little high for both. at those #ers points are about the same. My point is LT has the ability to put together an 80-90 catch season, that imo gives him a little higher upside! I don't believe LJ has the ability to go much over 40 catches.

[BlueBrewer]

I think the best thing to do is wait until preseason and see what kind of offense Edwards is running and what kind of command Rivers has.

[gureski]

I think the best thing to do is wait until preseason and see what kind of offense Edwards is running and what kind of command Rivers has.

You wont see much in pre-season. For K.C., it's all in the playcalling on game day and they wont tip their hand in the pre-season.

The one thing you can assert without really going out on a limb is that H.Edwards wont coach with an 'Outscore them' mentality like Vermeil did. Edwards is more conservative in nature and that alone will affect the offensive outcome of the entire team. Edwards isn't going to embrace the idea of blitzing the scoreboard on offense and leaving his defense on the field for long amounts of time. It's just not who he is.

And Rivers can make the short throws. The fact he has the arm to throw deep is only more reason to think he will be successful underneath because going long opens up the defense. For Brees, teams knew he wasn't a long-ball QB. They could play closer to the line. For Rivers, they will have to respect his arm more and that will loosen up the coverage closer to the line of scrimmage. Loose coverage at the line and safeties backed up farther means a higher likelihood for the RB and TE to be open.

[gureski]

Valid points, and I was not aware of that, so it makes it a tossup. However, I'd hesitate to project LT getting close to 90 catches. Since his monstrous 2003 season, he has had 53 catches for 441 yards in 2004 and 51 catches for 370 yards in 2005. That is with Brees throwing him the pill. I don't see Rivers being as effective as Drew Brees throwing to his TEs or RBs. Brees was a master of the short passes. His arm strength is somewhat questionable and he didn't get it down the field as much. I have a feeling Rivers will be more inclined to look down the field--as a young QB often finds it difficult to checkdown to his third and fourth options.


You're fishing to say that Rivers will find it difficult to check down to his RB's and TE's.

It's rather well established that the two things young and inexperienced QB's all do is they rely too much on their legs and they throw lots of short drop offs to RB's and TE's. On most plays you'll see either the RB, FB, or TE stay close to the line and run the closest patters to the QB so if you're panicing and you have to get rid of the ball.....those are the prime guys to dump it off to. You don't have to think to throw to the guy closest to you. You're suddenlyl in trouble and they're the only option you have.

As a QB matures as a player (with playing time) they run less and work the middle of the field check-downs more. So, where-as a young QB may lock in on the #1 receiver on any given play and wait so long to check down that the heat is suddenly on and they have to skip over their 2nd and 3d read down to the dump pass to a RB....a mature QB reads the coverage better and moves off the #1 route to recognize the #2 WR faster and thus doesn't need the short dump offs to RB's and TE's.

So, in essance, I'm disputing your take that Rivers will have trouble checking down to the guys running routes closest to him (FB, RB, TE). Because he's a young QB there will be many times when the guys running routes closest to him will be the only read he has time to make. It's not a checkdown process....it's an outlet for his mistakes as he learns to read the defense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

My head hurts. I'll put a dollar on Johnson being better than Tomlinson in a standard scoring system (e.g. Yahoo default scoring system).

[gureski]

The offensive coaches for Vermeil are now in Detroit and Washington. Since it's the system and not the players, we can expect Kevin Jones and Clinton Portis to be right at the top, I guess.

Funny you should mention this....Portis seems to think that's the case...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-portis063006&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

SHBURN, Va. – There were times when Clinton Portis spent his bruised and battered regular-season Mondays dying for days like this. He would bite his tongue, mutter curse words under his breath in meetings and then pray.

For what?

"A guy like Al Saunders," the running back said of the Washington Redskins' new offensive coordinator. "And an offense like this."

In fact, the first time Portis sat down and really went through some of the offensive film produced by Saunders – highlight clips featuring backs like Priest Holmes, Marshall Faulk and Larry Johnson – he cursed again.

"I remember saying this is the (expletive) I've been waiting for," Portis said.

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Yes No
Yes No
Yes No



As far as Portis can see, what Saunders brings to Washington is like nothing he's ever seen. Four- and five-wide receiver sets. Snappy huddles. Adjustments at the line of scrimmage. Up-tempo management. And most importantly, spacious running lanes that would rival the tarmac at Washington Dulles International Airport. All of which – to Portis – provides hope for a career year.

Larry Johnson can have his 2,000-yard season in Kansas City. Portis could be making a run at the single-season record for rushing touchdowns.

"The last time I saw a field spread out like this was in Denver," Portis said. "We didn't spread it out around here. That wasn't our system. You had to adapt. You had to change your game to fit whatever they brought to you. Now I've got the golden opportunity. For two years, I had the opportunity of getting pounded. Pounded here and pounded there. But I found a way out of that and I have the opportunity of my career.

"You don't have to talk to those guys who have gone through him before. Just go look at the film. When Marshall Faulk was in his prime, coach Saunders was there. When Priest was in his prime, coach Saunders was there. If I'm in my prime, I'm in the right place."

Some will scoff at the idea of Portis making a run at 20-plus touchdowns, particularly in what might be the NFL's toughest division. But even the upgrades by the Cowboys, Giants and Eagles don't promise to improve run defenses that ranked from 12th to 21st last season. Portis is counting on Saunders and other offseason additions to make a difference, especially after seeing a diminutive Holmes – almost the exact size of Portis – develop into one of the most prolific scorers in league history with the Chiefs.

For a player who ran through a series of brick walls during his first season under Joe Gibbs, Portis has seen the Redskins' offense come a long way from the rudimentary power scheme he once labeled as "vanilla." Now the offense has arguably as many options as Saunders had when he helped the Rams win Super Bowl XXXIV – from the explosiveness of Santana Moss and the versatility of Antwaan Randle El to the possession capabilities of Brandon Lloyd, David Patten and Chris Cooley.

Barring another spate of injuries on the offensive line, or the loss of one of the principals (Portis, Moss or quarterback Mark Brunell), the unit should be diverse enough to avoid the sputtering it encountered in the playoffs last season.

"Looking around at Lloyd and Randle El and Patten – looking around at guys that should have spectacular years, along with Santana and Cooley – that's going to open [things] up a lot," Portis said. "You can't put eight people in the box. If you do, we're going to throw a bomb on you. You'll rather give me 20 or 30 [yards] than give them 80."

As Joe Gibbs put it more succinctly: "You need to be able to keep people off balance. That's what we'll be striving for."

Whether or not the offensive production clicks will depend on Brunell and the receivers.

Saunders' passing offense heavily favors timing – to the point where Brunell will be expected to make quicker drops in the pocket and release some of his passes before his target makes his final cut. Brunell broke a finger early in June and missed the team's final minicamp, so his repetitions in practice have been nonexistent over the last month.

"It will be fine. I've got some work to do – we all do with this scheme – but we have some time to get it together," Brunell said. "Actually, I'm really excited. We made a lot of moves in the offseason to try and get better, but I honestly think Al might have been the biggest of all of them.

"Everyone is working hard with his scheme. You can see it's paying off, too. Guys were starting to click and make plays out there [in minicamp], so you can see how it's going to open things up – especially for Clinton."

Portis said he expects to arrive in training camp between 210 and 212 pounds, shedding the weight he gained to sustain last year's pounding. Now he's styling a more cut physique to suit the quickness Saunders' offense requires. And Portis points out that he's just now entering the four-year window that should be the peak of his career.

"I've got to hit some home runs before people start writing me off and saying I can't do it anymore," he said. "I'm looking for a couple of 90-yarders this year.

"You look at my start in this league, and only Eric Dickerson and Edgerrin James have had [an initial four seasons] like me. I look back, two years ago, I had 1,300 yards. People wrote me off like I was a bust. And the people that [the media] are hugging up on now haven't even had 1,300 yards. If 1,300 is my worst season, bro, I'm all for that."

And with the new scheme?

"Hopefully, the only thing that changes for me is by the third quarter I'll be sitting on the sideline with my hat turned to the back, waving to the cameras, talking about how this win is in the books and we'll see you next week."


Charles Robinson is the national NFL writer for Yahoo! Sports. Send him a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

[woodbuck27]

I'd also consider this fella in the mix.

The Cardinals paid free-agent running back Edgerrin James big money and now they expect big numbers.

Arizona coach Dennis Green recently said it would be possible for James to gain numbers that the team never has seen before. "We'd love to get 1,600 yards from him this year, shatter every record we've ever had," Green said.

Should James pile up 1,606 yards, which Green thinks is a possibility, then the former Colts running back would set the Cardinals all-time single-season rushing record. The man who currently holds it is Ottis Anderson, who ran for 1,605 in 1979.

Note: woodbuck27

If you discount his 2001 season when he was injured and the 2002 season, due to 'the two year rule for RB's to fully recover fr. injury'- E. James has been impressive.

In those other five season's (1999 and 2000 and 2003-05) E. James has started 90 games. In those games he ran for a combined 7575 yards on 1760 carries or a 4.3 yard avg. and 1515 yards /season. He scored 59 TD's rushing and caught 271 pass's or 54 per season for another 10 TD's and 2292 yards.

So in those five season's Edgerrin James had a combined yard's of 9867 and 69 TD's (about 14 TD's per season).

As well, he will be the featured star player in Arizona. I expect him to have a great season, maybe just as payback to the Colts for not retaining him.

[jack's smirking revenge]

I'd also consider this fella in the mix.

The Cardinals paid free-agent running back Edgerrin James big money and now they expect big numbers.

Arizona coach Dennis Green recently said it would be possible for James to gain numbers that the team never has seen before. "We'd love to get 1,600 yards from him this year, shatter every record we've ever had," Green said.

Should James pile up 1,606 yards, which Green thinks is a possibility, then the former Colts running back would set the Cardinals all-time single-season rushing record. The man who currently holds it is Ottis Anderson, who ran for 1,605 in 1979.

Note: woodbuck27

If you discount his 2001 season when he was injured and the 2002 season, due to 'the two year rule for RB's to fully recover fr. injury'- E. James has been impressive.

In those other five season's (1999 and 2000 and 2003-05) E. James has started 90 games. In those games he ran for a combined 7575 yards on 1760 carries or a 4.3 yard avg. and 1515 yards /season. He scored 59 TD's rushing and caught 271 pass's or 54 per season for another 10 TD's and 2292 yards.

So in those five season's Edgerrin James had a combined yard's of 9867 and 69 TD's (about 14 TD's per season).

As well, he will be the featured star player in Arizona. I expect him to have a great season, maybe just as payback to the Colts for not retaining him.

Edge is a great back, but until there's proof that the Cards o-line has improved, he's a risk. I don't think he's the kind of back that can do it all by himself, especially with Warner or rookie Leinart leading the offense.

I don't think we'll get a good read on the Cards RB situation until some preseason games happen. He's probably in the top 10 in the NFL, especially with his new role, but there are lots of question marks.

tyler

[woodbuck27]

I'd also consider this fella in the mix.

The Cardinals paid free-agent running back Edgerrin James big money and now they expect big numbers.

Arizona coach Dennis Green recently said it would be possible for James to gain numbers that the team never has seen before. "We'd love to get 1,600 yards from him this year, shatter every record we've ever had," Green said.

Should James pile up 1,606 yards, which Green thinks is a possibility, then the former Colts running back would set the Cardinals all-time single-season rushing record. The man who currently holds it is Ottis Anderson, who ran for 1,605 in 1979.

Note: woodbuck27

If you discount his 2001 season when he was injured and the 2002 season, due to 'the two year rule for RB's to fully recover fr. injury'- E. James has been impressive.

In those other five season's (1999 and 2000 and 2003-05) E. James has started 90 games. In those games he ran for a combined 7575 yards on 1760 carries or a 4.3 yard avg. and 1515 yards /season. He scored 59 TD's rushing and caught 271 pass's or 54 per season for another 10 TD's and 2292 yards.

So in those five season's Edgerrin James had a combined yard's of 9867 and 69 TD's (about 14 TD's per season).

As well, he will be the featured star player in Arizona. I expect him to have a great season, maybe just as payback to the Colts for not retaining him.

Edge is a great back, but until there's proof that the Cards o-line has improved, he's a risk. I don't think he's the kind of back that can do it all by himself, especially with Warner or rookie Leinart leading the offense.

I don't think we'll get a good read on the Cards RB situation until some preseason games happen. He's probably in the top 10 in the NFL, especially with his new role, but there are lots of question marks.

tyler

The Arizona OL-Yup.

After I made that post, that was exactly my next thought tyler.

[LEWCWA]

I'm going defense in my league--N. Barnett!!!

[MJZiggy]

Not AJ, LEW?

[BlueBrewer]

Are you seriously in a defense league? I have never played in one , how does the scoring work, per tackle? :?:

[Bretsky]

My head hurts. I'll put a dollar on Johnson being better than Tomlinson in a standard scoring system (e.g. Yahoo default scoring system).

Why don't you just send me your dollar :wink:

Actually a Dollar is about all I'd bet too; my logic for LT is he's the safer thing and if I'm picking one I'd stress that more and then grab the best RB in round two.

I saw a mock expert draft at CBS Sportsline.com last week. Their first 12 picks were RB's. Nuts. I figured even though he wasn't a stud last year as much, Payton Manning would still be picked in top 6-8 or so.

B

[BlueBrewer]

I can honestly say that you guys have swayed my opinion back and forth several times, I am really glad that i started this thread because there is some really intelligent insight on this forum that brought up a lot of points that I had not even considered, thanks everyone. :smile:

[Bretsky]

BlueB,

Do you have that #1 pick ?

In all my leagues we pick our numbers the day of; I hope I end up with #3 in every league so I don't have to decide.

B

[BlueBrewer]

I have the #1, the two worst teams from last season get picks one and two, and the rest draw for position. I agree with you that three is the place to be, no pressure.

[LEWCWA]

Yeah we play with individual defensive players. Our scoring for them is 1pt for unassisted tackles, 3pts-sack, 3pts-int, 3 pts-fumble recovery, 2 pts-for saftey, 1 pt for pass defensed. I like it better than picking a whold team for def/st.

As far as AJ, I never pick rookies until late in any draft! Even Packer rookies!