Enough Already!

[Kiwon]

Many sense a new era is here with Obama

Many Americans have had to pinch themselves: They now have an African-American president-elect.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-11-05-obamamoment_N.htm

.................................................. ........................

"I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today." (MLK - August 28, 1963)

And here we are in 2008. Barack Hussein Obama is elected POTUS because of his character? No. He was elected mainly because of the color of his skin.

Blacks voted for someone who looks like them and guilty whites needed to prove to the world that they are not racially biased. And now both groups are pinching themselves in disbelief as if they accomplished something significant.

It's a sad testimony to the shallowness of people that Barack Obama was elected not because of the unique traits that form the content of his character but because his hippie mother had a relationship with a Kenyan man resulting in a baby with brown skin.

Color of skin trumps content of character once again.

Sorry, folks, but that's not progress.

[MJZiggy]

Well thank you for explaining to me about my guilt. I was under the crazy impression that I voted for him because I thought he'd make a better president than McCain. It's so nice that you can think for all 68 million of us.


Enough already!!

[Kiwon]

Well thank you for explaining to me about my guilt. I was under the crazy impression that I voted for him because I thought he'd make a better president than McCain. It's so nice that you can think for all 68 million of us.


Enough already!!

So YOU get to channel 68 million people? Speak for YOURSELF and then quit talking.

1.
2.
3.

List the reasons you voted for him and let's see how substantive they are.

[MJZiggy]

I voted for him because (in no particular order)

1. I liked his plan to make sure everyone in the country was covered by healthcare

2. I thought from the things he said that he would do a better job of bringing America back into a cooperative light with the rest of the world through international cooperation and conversation. I'm sick of this country being thought of as arrogant dufuses and I'm tired of hearing from people outside that they don't care who we elect next just so long as we get rid of this guy)

3. I like his dedication to education and ensuring that opportunities for higher learning exist for all Americans who have the brains and willpower to make it through college--and the idea of having them earn it through service to their country was a brilliant way to not only get them educated, but to increase volunteerism which has been sorely lacking in this country for a long time.

4. Because he has shown me that his decisionmaking is better than his opponent. He is more in tune with the times and current technology than his counterpart who can't use a computer (not because of his war wounds, but because he never learned how to do it) and who when asked about his views on sex education in the schools replied that he didn't know anything about contraception. That leads me to a lot of other questions.

5. He didn't pick a vp candidate that reminds me so much of the guy they were trying to replace that he didn't have a prayer in losing the comparisons to Bush. The people didn't want Bush and that's not my thinking for him; that's his 30% approval rate speaking.

Remind me again what the question was?

[MJZiggy]

I forgot.

5. He is completely unflappable. No matter how hard McCain tried to rattle him, he remained ever calm while McCain got all frustrated trying to get him to lose his cool. He never did. I have far more faith that Obama can keep his cool and remain in control when dealing with foreign leaders who press him than McCain would have.

[Kiwon]

I voted for him because (in no particular order)

1. I liked his plan to make sure everyone in the country was covered by healthcare

2. I thought from the things he said that he would do a better job of bringing America back into a cooperative light with the rest of the world through international cooperation and conversation. I'm sick of this country being thought of as arrogant dufuses and I'm tired of hearing from people outside that they don't care who we elect next just so long as we get rid of this guy)

3. I like his dedication to education and ensuring that opportunities for higher learning exist for all Americans who have the brains and willpower to make it through college--and the idea of having them earn it through service to their country was a brilliant way to not only get them educated, but to increase volunteerism which has been sorely lacking in this country for a long time.

4. Because he has shown me that his decisionmaking is better than his opponent. He is more in tune with the times and current technology than his counterpart who can't use a computer (not because of his war wounds, but because he never learned how to do it) and who when asked about his views on sex education in the schools replied that he didn't know anything about contraception. That leads me to a lot of other questions.

5. He didn't pick a vp candidate that reminds me so much of the guy they were trying to replace that he didn't have a prayer in losing the comparisons to Bush. The people didn't want Bush and that's not my thinking for him; that's his 30% approval rate speaking.

Remind me again what the question was?

No white guilt assuaged? Okay, you get a pass (It's your morning and my evening and I'm not going to fight with you).

BUT here's another BS article illustrating what I'm talking about. The power of pigmentation - The health benefits of electing a Black president. :roll:

.................................................. ...................

How Obama's win may impact Americans' mental health

Improved race relations and short-term relief from soaring stress levels are among the likely after-effects of Barack Obama's Tuesday night victory, say experts in mental health and race relations.

<edit> Nobody was more surprised by the election result than Brian Ray, 49, of Chicago, who is black. " It just didn't seem feasible. ... So many whites weren't as prejudiced as we thought," Ray says.

A black president will give people a more positive view of the race, he says. "It does change how we look at the world — and how the world looks at us."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-11-05-obama-reaction_N.htm

[Kiwon]

I forgot.

5. He is completely unflappable. No matter how hard McCain tried to rattle him, he remained ever calm while McCain got all frustrated trying to get him to lose his cool. He never did. I have far more faith that Obama can keep his cool and remain in control when dealing with foreign leaders who press him than McCain would have.

Is that 2 #5's or a #5 and #6? ^^

[falco]

why even give this thread a response?

[th87]

I forgot.

5. He is completely unflappable. No matter how hard McCain tried to rattle him, he remained ever calm while McCain got all frustrated trying to get him to lose his cool. He never did. I have far more faith that Obama can keep his cool and remain in control when dealing with foreign leaders who press him than McCain would have.

Is that 2 #5's or a #5 and #6? ^^

Enough already with your whining.

[Zool]

Because Kiwon is mad as hell and he's not gonna take it anymore.

[th87]

The guy's a conservative version of those toys where you pull the strings and they say shit. Just ready-made regurgitation.

[Zool]

See and say?

A Liberal says "gimmie all your money rich guys"

[th87]

See and say?

A Liberal says "gimmie all your money rich guys"

I was thinking more along the lines of a doll, rather than that circular wheel thing. Although that would certainly fit the bill.

"Liberals are responsible for moral decay"

[Deputy Nutz]

Race played a substancial role in this election. Explain the enflux in the black vote that went 96% to Obama. Explain all the tears in the eyes of blacks around America when Barrack took the stand.

Don't bullshit yourselves in thinking that Barrack's skin color didn't have anything to do with. Don't bullshit yourselves in thinking that Barry's appearance as a whole didn't have anything to do with it. Don't bullshit yourself into thinking that Barry's candor and his "A" in Speach class didn't have anything to do with. And please don't bullshit yourself into thinking that his 4-1 spending didn't have anything to do with Barry winning this election.

Barry campaigned his ass off, and did a damn good job. How McCain ever won a senate seat and managed to hold it for 20+ years is amazing because he campaigns for shit.

[th87]

Race played a substancial role in this election. Explain the enflux in the black vote that went 96% to Obama. Explain all the tears in the eyes of blacks around America when Barrack took the stand.

Don't bullshit yourselves in thinking that Barrack's skin color didn't have anything to do with. Don't bullshit yourselves in thinking that Barry's appearance as a whole didn't have anything to do with it. Don't bullshit yourself into thinking that Barry's candor and his "A" in Speach class didn't have anything to do with. And please don't bullshit yourself into thinking that his 4-1 spending didn't have anything to do with Barry winning this election.

Barry campaigned his ass off, and did a damn good job. How McCain ever won a senate seat and managed to hold it for 20+ years is amazing because he campaigns for shit.

It would be naive to believe it didn't to an extent. But I'm sure McCain was the beneficiary of his race too.

Let's face it - the Black community has seen itself as an aggrieved party. It's completely reasonable for them to see this as an astronomically large milestone - a great opportunity to symbolically heal centuries worth of wounds, and to bask in how far we've come as a society.

It also doesn't hurt that Obama represented Black interests the best (despite what Tex thinks). Liberals are always seen as being more in touch with urban populations, minorities, and the poor. Also, many Black people distrusted Reagan, and Bush-Dole-Bush-McCain represented newer versions of him.

Lots of factors.

[gex]

I voted for him because (in no particular order)

1. I liked his plan to make sure everyone in the country was covered by healthcare

2. I thought from the things he said that he would do a better job of bringing America back into a cooperative light with the rest of the world through international cooperation and conversation. I'm sick of this country being thought of as arrogant dufuses and I'm tired of hearing from people outside that they don't care who we elect next just so long as we get rid of this guy)

3. I like his dedication to education and ensuring that opportunities for higher learning exist for all Americans who have the brains and willpower to make it through college--and the idea of having them earn it through service to their country was a brilliant way to not only get them educated, but to increase volunteerism which has been sorely lacking in this country for a long time.

4. Because he has shown me that his decisionmaking is better than his opponent. He is more in tune with the times and current technology than his counterpart who can't use a computer (not because of his war wounds, but because he never learned how to do it) and who when asked about his views on sex education in the schools replied that he didn't know anything about contraception. That leads me to a lot of other questions.

5. He didn't pick a vp candidate that reminds me so much of the guy they were trying to replace that he didn't have a prayer in losing the comparisons to Bush. The people didn't want Bush and that's not my thinking for him; that's his 30% approval rate speaking.

Remind me again what the question was?
QFT

[Deputy Nutz]

Race played a substancial role in this election. Explain the enflux in the black vote that went 96% to Obama. Explain all the tears in the eyes of blacks around America when Barrack took the stand.

Don't bullshit yourselves in thinking that Barrack's skin color didn't have anything to do with. Don't bullshit yourselves in thinking that Barry's appearance as a whole didn't have anything to do with it. Don't bullshit yourself into thinking that Barry's candor and his "A" in Speach class didn't have anything to do with. And please don't bullshit yourself into thinking that his 4-1 spending didn't have anything to do with Barry winning this election.

Barry campaigned his ass off, and did a damn good job. How McCain ever won a senate seat and managed to hold it for 20+ years is amazing because he campaigns for shit.

It would be naive to believe it didn't to an extent. But I'm sure McCain was the beneficiary of his race too.

Let's face it - the Black community has seen itself as an aggrieved party. It's completely reasonable for them to see this as an astronomically large milestone - a great opportunity to symbolically heal centuries worth of wounds, and to bask in how far we've come as a society.

It also doesn't hurt that Obama represented Black interests the best (despite what Tex thinks). Liberals are always seen as being more in touch with urban populations, minorities, and the poor. Also, many Black people distrusted Reagan, and Bush-Dole-Bush-McCain represented newer versions of him.

Lots of factors.

I don't think there were a lot of people refusing to vote for Obama based on his skin color, and I don't believe people were willing to give out their vote to McCain because he was a honky. I do think we are mostly pass this, I might be wrong, but Obama certainly didn't win the election on the black vote alone. I saw more Obama signs in a rural part of WI then McCain signs, by a large margin.

Otherwise I agree with everything else. Black is trendy.

[mraynrand]

Here's who I voted for. I based my decision on content of character. And smell.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/NPLPOD/1160748~Black-Labrador-Retriever-Looking-Up-Posters.jpg

[Gunakor]

Kiwon, I don't know how closely you followed the campaigns, but there was very huge problem with McCains campaign that I'm sure cost him millions of votes. That being, he never bothered to clearly explain to Americans what he'd do once elected. He spent all of his time reminding Americans how wrong Obama's plans were, and little time explaining to Americans why his plan was right. To be honest, I have no fucking clue what McCain was going to try to do - other than continue fighting a war indefinitely that America cannot afford forever. Nobody knows what McCain's economic plan was. He never really told us. Obama on the other hand was extremely clear about his economic plan. Whether you agree with it or not, at least you knew what it was. You can't trust a candidate who won't tell the people he wishes to lead what he wants to do. We elected the guy who told us what he is going to do, not the guy who said he was wrong but gave no alternative. If McCains economic plan to lead us out of this recession was so much better than Obama's, then why in the world wouldn't he take the time to clearly explain that to the American people who he'd hoped would vote for him?

[sheepshead]

Kiwon, I don't know how closely you followed the campaigns, but there was very huge problem with McCains campaign that I'm sure cost him millions of votes. That being, he never bothered to clearly explain to Americans what he'd do once elected. He spent all of his time reminding Americans how wrong Obama's plans were, and little time explaining to Americans why his plan was right. To be honest, I have no fucking clue what McCain was going to try to do - other than continue fighting a war indefinitely that America cannot afford forever. Nobody knows what McCain's economic plan was. He never really told us. Obama on the other hand was extremely clear about his economic plan. Whether you agree with it or not, at least you knew what it was. You can't trust a candidate who won't tell the people he wishes to lead what he wants to do. We elected the guy who told us what he is going to do, not the guy who said he was wrong but gave no alternative. If McCains economic plan to lead us out of this recession was so much better than Obama's, then why in the world wouldn't he take the time to clearly explain that to the American people who he'd hoped would vote for him?

LOL--HUH?

[mraynrand]

Obama on the other hand was extremely clear about his economic plan. Whether you agree with it or not, at least you knew what it was. You can't trust a candidate who won't tell the people he wishes to lead what he wants to do. We elected the guy who told us what he is going to do, not the guy who said he was wrong but gave no alternative.

You seem to believe this very strongly. People who believed this helped Obama win. Enjoy your tax cut.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Race played a substancial role in this election. Explain the enflux in the black vote that went 96% to Obama. Explain all the tears in the eyes of blacks around America when Barrack took the stand.

Don't bullshit yourselves in thinking that Barrack's skin color didn't have anything to do with. Don't bullshit yourselves in thinking that Barry's appearance as a whole didn't have anything to do with it. Don't bullshit yourself into thinking that Barry's candor and his "A" in Speach class didn't have anything to do with. And please don't bullshit yourself into thinking that his 4-1 spending didn't have anything to do with Barry winning this election.

Barry campaigned his ass off, and did a damn good job. How McCain ever won a senate seat and managed to hold it for 20+ years is amazing because he campaigns for shit.

Race had something to do with it, but you and the rest do black voters a major disservice.

Barack wasn't the first African American to run for office and those who ran previously didn't garner the support. If race was the major factor, what held back Jesse, Al and Carol. Neither polled anywhere near Barack's #s in the community.

[bobblehead]

sorry guys, race played very little factor in this. Blacks always go 90% for democrats, and the turnout was comparable to recent elections.

this race was lost by a republican party that lost its soul...the sooner that is realized and corrected the sooner guys like obama can't win. A party that runs against something rarely wins.

bottom line, mccain sucked as a candidate and couldn't have won in a good republican year, he had no chance in this climate.

[MJZiggy]

Actually if you look at the original post and my response to it, I want to make it clear that to a degree race did have a part in this election. But the assumption that it is the SOLE reason that Obama won, or that some sort of guilt would be the only reason white people could have voted for him is ridiculous.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I agree with you Bobble.

But, i'm not inclined to agree as much on the soul. I think you and the rest of the ultra conservs have really hijacked the party. Libertarians and such were considered fringe in the 70s.

But, i have less concern about your breed of conservatism then i do with the RR. Ultimately, they are killing the party.

BTW, just a little libertarian history...i'm quite good friends with Andre's son. Course he doesn't have very warm fuzzy feelings toward his dad. Not exactly a great father.

[Kiwon]

Another example of the shallowness:

Poll: Hopes are high for race relations

USA Today/Gallup Poll:

Q. - Does this describe your reaction to Barack Obama being elected President?

Choices: Proud, Optimistic, Excited, Pessimistic, Afraid

.................................................. ............................

Now what has really changed in two days? - Nothing, but people are FEELING proud, optimistic, and excited because a man with brown skin is the future president.

My contention is that many people voted for Obama precisely because they wanted to feel proud, optimistic, or excited about race relations.

Does his qualifications at age 47 merit the job? No, not even close.

But that doesn't matter for people that think that simply electing a black is somehow going to change 400 years of strained history and makes a profound statement about themselves first, and then their country, that America is no longer hindered by past racial bias.

For these people, the election was about THEMSELVES and their own psyche rather than the country or Obama. To them, the greatest asset Obama possesses is the pigmentation of his skin (reading a speech well off a teleprompter didn't hurt either).

I call that shallow and a sad repudiation of the key point that Dr. Martin Luther King was making about evaluating people on the content of their character and not the color of their skin.

Far too many people failed this test in their choice of Obama.

Quick, go to public housing in Milwaukee and shout, "I am here, my brothers! Welcome me!" They will greet you as a liberator, not an occupier (ala Iraq). Kumbaya....pass the peace pipe....all things are new again.

That's the FEELING that many people seemingly NEEDED to have.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Hands down...you are the undisputed king of bitterness.

[Kiwon]

Hands down...you are the undisputed king of bitterness.

(Define bitterness, you twit.)

I'm a liberal. Don't think, just feel.

It's about ME..... ME...... ME...... ME...... ME.......

Chant with me:

...theoceansareloweringtheplanetishealing
...theoceansareloweringtheplanetishealing
...theoceansareloweringtheplanetishealing
...theoceansareloweringtheplanetishealing

...Obama.....Obama....Obama.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

King of bitterness.

[Kiwon]

King of bitterness.

I was shooting for Emperor for Life. :(

[Tyrone Bigguns]

King of bitterness.

I was shooting for Emperor for Life. :(

Just another thing for you to be bitter about.

[Gunakor]

Kiwon, I don't know how closely you followed the campaigns, but there was very huge problem with McCains campaign that I'm sure cost him millions of votes. That being, he never bothered to clearly explain to Americans what he'd do once elected. He spent all of his time reminding Americans how wrong Obama's plans were, and little time explaining to Americans why his plan was right. To be honest, I have no fucking clue what McCain was going to try to do - other than continue fighting a war indefinitely that America cannot afford forever. Nobody knows what McCain's economic plan was. He never really told us. Obama on the other hand was extremely clear about his economic plan. Whether you agree with it or not, at least you knew what it was. You can't trust a candidate who won't tell the people he wishes to lead what he wants to do. We elected the guy who told us what he is going to do, not the guy who said he was wrong but gave no alternative. If McCains economic plan to lead us out of this recession was so much better than Obama's, then why in the world wouldn't he take the time to clearly explain that to the American people who he'd hoped would vote for him?

LOL--HUH?

If you know, please explain McCain's economic policies to me then Sheeps. Because I don't think he really told us. In fact, I don't think he had a clue how to pull us out of this recession. If you think his economic plan was better, that means you must have at least known the details of that plan. Do tell.

[HowardRoark]

Kiwon, I don't know how closely you followed the campaigns, but there was very huge problem with McCains campaign that I'm sure cost him millions of votes. That being, he never bothered to clearly explain to Americans what he'd do once elected. He spent all of his time reminding Americans how wrong Obama's plans were, and little time explaining to Americans why his plan was right. To be honest, I have no fucking clue what McCain was going to try to do - other than continue fighting a war indefinitely that America cannot afford forever. Nobody knows what McCain's economic plan was. He never really told us. Obama on the other hand was extremely clear about his economic plan. Whether you agree with it or not, at least you knew what it was. You can't trust a candidate who won't tell the people he wishes to lead what he wants to do. We elected the guy who told us what he is going to do, not the guy who said he was wrong but gave no alternative. If McCains economic plan to lead us out of this recession was so much better than Obama's, then why in the world wouldn't he take the time to clearly explain that to the American people who he'd hoped would vote for him?

LOL--HUH?

If you know, please explain McCain's economic policies to me then Sheeps. Because I don't think he really told us. In fact, I don't think he had a clue how to pull us out of this recession. If you think his economic plan was better, that means you must have at least known the details of that plan. Do tell.

I agree with you. I also agree with Bobble that McCain ran a bad campaign. I also think that what got/gets us all up in arms is the HORRIBLE economic plan of Obama. But I will admit we were not cheering on McCain's plan. The only thing he did say specifically was that he would make the Bush tax cuts permanent. And even lower some (cap gains/dividends). When he started talking about buying up mortgages he lost me. Literally and figuratively. What seemed to galvanize the Right was the crazy direction in which Obama wants to turn our country. I still beleive that. But I do agree with your point.

Stephen Hayes wrote a good article about McCain:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/771vfzje.asp

For those of you who don't know, Hayes also has a pretty good Packer blog:

http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/

[bobblehead]

I agree with you Bobble.

But, i'm not inclined to agree as much on the soul. I think you and the rest of the ultra conservs have really hijacked the party. Libertarians and such were considered fringe in the 70s.

But, i have less concern about your breed of conservatism then i do with the RR. Ultimately, they are killing the party.

BTW, just a little libertarian history...i'm quite good friends with Andre's son. Course he doesn't have very warm fuzzy feelings toward his dad. Not exactly a great father.

Again, not sure how you can label me an ultra conserv. On social issues I'm quite liberal compared to the right, and on economics I'm simply a scientist....the lefts idea of redistribution class warfare diminishes wealth enhancement...Its science, i could no more support obamonomics than I could support 2+2=5. wealth is created through free market capitalism and that is an indisputable fact. Sometimes factors other than normal creation can call for gov't intervention such as infrastructure which won't get built privately, but the private sector will use it to create far more wealth (the real multiplier effect) and gov't spending is good...otherwise it is simply detrimental and every shred of evidence supports my stance.

[MJZiggy]

Bobble, do you KNOW what his economics are EXACTLY? Have you read the website that outlines them? If so, can you tell me what he was talking about when he talked about personal responsibility? I heard him use that phrase a few times. If he's doing redistributional socialism, why is he talking about personal responsibility?

[mraynrand]

. If he's doing redistributional socialism, why is he talking about personal responsibility?

It polled well.

[GrnBay007]

^^^

New additions to your family mrray? :D

Very cute BTW.

[MJZiggy]

. If he's doing redistributional socialism, why is he talking about personal responsibility?

It polled well.

Have you read the new site?

[mraynrand]

. If he's doing redistributional socialism, why is he talking about personal responsibility?

It polled well.

Have you read the new site?

Yes, I saw it. It polled well when Axelrod used it before.

[bobblehead]

Bobble, do you KNOW what his economics are EXACTLY? Have you read the website that outlines them? If so, can you tell me what he was talking about when he talked about personal responsibility? I heard him use that phrase a few times. If he's doing redistributional socialism, why is he talking about personal responsibility?

I would put money on me having read his website more in depth than 99% of the population.

[texaspackerbacker]

It is, of course, all about race and racism in the sense that 95% or whatever of the black vote was delivered to the extreme leftist candidate, despite the fact that much of what he stands for is just as much an anathema to the majority of black people as it is to the huge majoirty of white people.

However, the sick and disgusting truth is that if a decent normal black person--one who is in tune with the views and values of his/her own race, not to mention America in general had been running--Condoleeza Rice, Michael Steele, J.C. Watts, Ken Blackwell, among others, there would NOT have been such a near-unanimous black vote, there would not have been the enthusiasm, etc. Why? Because the overseers of the leftist plantation--the so-called "leadership" of the blacks are so hopelessly in league with the political left that they would have fought hard to keep blacks from voting for one of their own--if that black person had decent normal American views and values--which Obama of course, does not.

Add to that the absolutely WEIRD form of racism exhibited by white liberals--shamefully so by many right here in this forum--of "white guilt"--more accurately, "white LIBERAL guilt", and you have the recipe for the debacle that has befallen America.

We will survive, though, as the leftists and Obamaphiles bungle the economy and overplay their hand, turning off many who they conned, on social issues. The only thing we might NOT survive is if Obama and the imbeciles he will have working for him allow terrorist hits. I wonder if Jame Gorelick, the person MOST responsible for allowing the 9/11 terrorist hits, will get a job for Obama. He'll probably make her director of homeland security.

[GrnBay007]

Obamaphiles

:lol: You sure do crack me up sometimes with the stuff you come up with.

[Iron Mike]

Obamaphiles

:lol: You sure do crack me up sometimes with the stuff you come up with.

Obamanation. 8-)