Boy OH Boy

[Pacopete4]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20081105/PKR01/81105193/1058

Notebook: It's hard for Jones to get back in the lineup
By Rob Demovsky • rdemovsk@greenbaypressgazette.com • November 5, 2008

James Jones is healthy — as are all of the Green Bay Packers’ receivers — but that doesn’t mean the return of the “Big Five” package is coming anytime soon.Jones, who opened training camp as the Packers’ No. 3 receiver, was a healthy scratch for last Sunday’s game at Tennessee and might have trouble getting on the field this Sunday at Minnesota.

When Jones returned from the bye week healed from the knee injury that kept him out four of the first seven games, many presumed that coach Mike McCarthy would finally employ the five-receiver package that was so successful last season.

Instead, Jones was inactive against the Titans, meaning the Packers benched him in favor of rookie Jordy Nelson and journeyman Ruvell Martin.

The Packers have not activated all five of their receivers for any game this season. Only 45 of the 53-players on the roster are allowed to play and decisions on inactives typically come down to who can play on special teams. Jones has never played special teams.

“It’s going to be a challenge (to keep five receivers active),” McCarthy said Wednesday. “It’s disappointing for some individuals when they are not up on Sunday I’m sure, but you can’t stand up there as a head coach and talk about the philosophy of your football team starts with defense and special teams and then come Sunday make all of your decisions on throwing the football for offense.”

Jones said Wednesday that he has not been told he’s on any of the special teams units this week.

“So obviously I’m not playing this week,” Jones said.




A- our 5 wide set was the only thing good last season
B- he's gonna lose Jones soon if he doesnt see action
C- we are fuckin 4-4 with the way we are playing, 13-3 last season with the way that team played... only one member is gone..... why change so radically?.... stupid

[Fritz]

To me, this should not be a decision about Jones vs. the other four receivers. This ought to be seen as Jones vs. Jerkmichael Finley. And as bad as Finley seems to have been on special teams, I'm not sure why MM doesn't de-activate Finley this week and replace him with Jones. Is Jones that bad on special teams?

[Bretsky]

The 13-3 comparison to 4-4 this year is Bush League

MANY more differences than one player gone

New QB
Corey Williams gone for season
Cullen Jenkins gone for season
Al Harris missed significant playing time already

Last year our offense, and Favre, played like horsecrap against Phily and we squeaked one out we didn't deserve. Breaks went our way last year.
The Chargers had some major injuries when we played them last year; the Giants as well.

Has not happened this year

We have a new team this year; get over the 13-3 comparisons.

[cpk1994]

The 13-3 comparison to 4-4 this year is Bush League

MANY more differences than one player gone

New QB
Corey Williams gone for season
Cullen Jenkins gone for season
Al Harris missed significant playing time already

Last year our offense, and Favre, played like horsecrap against Phily and we squeaked one out we didn't deserve. Breaks went our way last year.
The Chargers had some major injuries when we played them last year; the Giants as well.

Has not happened this year

We have a new team this year; get over the 13-3 comparisons.I don't make this a habit, but I agree with you.

Ill even mention more differences:

Jones has been injured
KGB basically was invisible and now cut
AJ Hawk has been injured most of the season

It is truly asinine to compare teams. But seeing who the OP was Im not suprisedit was done AGAIN. Even though this same poster bitched and moaned about others comparing the two.

[KYPack]

To me, this should not be a decision about Jones vs. the other four receivers. This ought to be seen as Jones vs. Jerkmichael Finley. And as bad as Finley seems to have been on special teams, I'm not sure why MM doesn't de-activate Finley this week and replace him with Jones. Is Jones that bad on special teams?

I don't think Jones plays any ST. MM and staff really focus on having all live players on ST, so if you don't have any ST role, it helps to get you de-activated.

Has anyone seen a depth chart with all the ST roles defined? I like to know who all the positions on the kicking teams are manned by. I saw them somewhere on an old site, but never have run across ST depth charts again.

[Partial]

I don't understand why they keep loading up talent at WR if they don't intend to play them.

[prsnfoto]

I don't understand why they keep loading up talent at WR if they don't intend to play them.


Exactly, perhaps they could trade him for a O-lineman that doesn't suck, D-Lineman that doesn't get hurt, or a LB that isn't a huge vagina that can't tackle. Just a thought.

[Fritz]

To me, this should not be a decision about Jones vs. the other four receivers. This ought to be seen as Jones vs. Jerkmichael Finley. And as bad as Finley seems to have been on special teams, I'm not sure why MM doesn't de-activate Finley this week and replace him with Jones. Is Jones that bad on special teams?

I don't think Jones plays any ST. MM and staff really focus on having all live players on ST, so if you don't have any ST role, it helps to get you de-activated.

Has anyone seen a depth chart with all the ST roles defined? I like to know who all the positions on the kicking teams are manned by. I saw them somewhere on an old site, but never have run across ST depth charts again.

The JSO article has a quote from Jones in which he says he's volunteered to play special teams. If the Pack can pick up a guy off the heap and plug him in on ST, why can't they plug Jones in the same way?

[mraynrand]

It seems to me that Rodgers hasn't fared all that well in the 5 receiver empty backfield set. Perhaps that is another reason not to activate Butterfingers Jones.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I want to see if Finley can make some strides, I like that he is getting a chance. HE was a damn good reciever in college. I expect he will learn from his mistakes.

[mraynrand]

I want to see if Finley can make some strides, I like that he is getting a chance. HE was a damn good reciever in college.

He is very good at striding. Running the correct route and catching: not so good. I can empathize. I can run very fast, but estimating the path of the frisbee, finding the frisbee, and leaping to grab it in the air are difficult for me. Jack Russel Terriers are better at that.

[sharpe1027]

I don't understand why they keep loading up talent at WR if they don't intend to play them.

I don't see the problem.

They drafted a WR in Nelson that was an improvement over what they had on the roster. Jones was an improvement over what they had a year ago. Jennings an improvement over what htey had two years ago. Murphy an improvement (except for the injury) over what they had three years ago.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I want to see if Finley can make some strides, I like that he is getting a chance. HE was a damn good reciever in college.

He is very good at striding. Running the correct route and catching: not so good. I can empathize. I can run very fast, but estimating the path of the frisbee, finding the frisbee, and leaping to grab it in the air are difficult for me. Jack Russel Terriers are better at that.
Gotta say mraynrand, the dog posts are funny. :lol:

[bobblehead]

A- our 5 wide set was the only thing good last season
B- he's gonna lose Jones soon if he doesnt see action
C- we are fuckin 4-4 with the way we are playing, 13-3 last season with the way that team played... only one member is gone..... why change so radically?.... stupid

Everything I said to JH about getting over favre...apply to yourself. This is simply inflamatory BS that isn't even worth refuting anymore.

The biggest difference between JH and yourself is that his posts not involving BF are usually pretty solid.

[red]

they got to get him in there. the guys got talent, and the 5 wr set is more important then that 11th guy on special teams

what a waste

and fritz is right, this shouldn't be him vs nelson and ruvell. those are both good players that also need to be on the roster

[Pacopete4]

A- our 5 wide set was the only thing good last season
B- he's gonna lose Jones soon if he doesnt see action
C- we are fuckin 4-4 with the way we are playing, 13-3 last season with the way that team played... only one member is gone..... why change so radically?.... stupid

Everything I said to JH about getting over favre...apply to yourself. This is simply inflamatory BS that isn't even worth refuting anymore.

The biggest difference between JH and yourself is that his posts not involving BF are usually pretty solid.


whoa, whoa, whoa Ms. Lippy.... my post really doesn't have anything to do with my love for Favre but more so MM being a dumbass and not using the talent on this team. WE HAVE FIVE VERY GOOD WR'S! Why are they not being used like they were last season? WHY? If its cuz Arod isnt there yet, then fine... but MM said he has the same playbook and I call bullshit because if he did, Jones would be out there making plays like he did last season... hell our 5 this years are even better than last years... so what the fuck are we doing?

[BF4MVP]

I really don't think this topic has anything to do with Paco's love for Favre, and I, too, am confused as to why the Big Five hasn't been employed yet. Jordy Nelson replaced Koren Robinson when he got cut. Since when do they not have room for James Jones? Doesn't make sense to me, the guy is the third- or fourth-best receiver on the roster..Put all five out there..Hell, try Jones on ST if you're trying to make room for ST players. I'm sure he wouldn't mind...

[Bossman641]

A- our 5 wide set was the only thing good last season
B- he's gonna lose Jones soon if he doesnt see action
C- we are fuckin 4-4 with the way we are playing, 13-3 last season with the way that team played... only one member is gone..... why change so radically?.... stupid

Everything I said to JH about getting over favre...apply to yourself. This is simply inflamatory BS that isn't even worth refuting anymore.

The biggest difference between JH and yourself is that his posts not involving BF are usually pretty solid.


whoa, whoa, whoa Ms. Lippy.... my post really doesn't have anything to do with my love for Favre but more so MM being a dumbass and not using the talent on this team. WE HAVE FIVE VERY GOOD WR'S! Why are they not being used like they were last season? WHY? If its cuz Arod isnt there yet, then fine... but MM said he has the same playbook and I call bullshit because if he did, Jones would be out there making plays like he did last season... hell our 5 this years are even better than last years... so what the fuck are we doing?

C- we are fuckin 4-4 with the way we are playing, 13-3 last season with the way that team played... only one member is gone..... why change so radically?.... stupid

Yea, you are right. Your post in no way insinuates that the team is worse this year only because Favre is gone. :roll:

I'll just assume that "one member" you are talkin about is Corey Williams.

[Pacopete4]

A- our 5 wide set was the only thing good last season
B- he's gonna lose Jones soon if he doesnt see action
C- we are fuckin 4-4 with the way we are playing, 13-3 last season with the way that team played... only one member is gone..... why change so radically?.... stupid

Everything I said to JH about getting over favre...apply to yourself. This is simply inflamatory BS that isn't even worth refuting anymore.

The biggest difference between JH and yourself is that his posts not involving BF are usually pretty solid.


whoa, whoa, whoa Ms. Lippy.... my post really doesn't have anything to do with my love for Favre but more so MM being a dumbass and not using the talent on this team. WE HAVE FIVE VERY GOOD WR'S! Why are they not being used like they were last season? WHY? If its cuz Arod isnt there yet, then fine... but MM said he has the same playbook and I call bullshit because if he did, Jones would be out there making plays like he did last season... hell our 5 this years are even better than last years... so what the fuck are we doing?

C- we are fuckin 4-4 with the way we are playing, 13-3 last season with the way that team played... only one member is gone..... why change so radically?.... stupid

Yea, you are right. Your post in no way insinuates that the team is worse this year only because Favre is gone. :roll:

I'll just assume that "one member" you are talkin about is Corey Williams.


Actually Bossman, that line was to say "heck, we only lost one player, why are we changing our offense that did so well last year?" not fucking, oh we suck cuz Favres not here... it really backed up Rodgers and the rest of the offense really.... but hey, jump down my throat for making a post about why this team may be struggling this year under MM and his pussy pants that he has on this season

[Pacopete4]

hell screw it... fuck 5 wide, lets keep the zone blocking scheme going and ram it, i mean cut block it, down peoples throats into the endzone... oh ya, that doesnt seem to be working...

[BF4MVP]

The way I read it, in a way, Paco complimented Rodgers, saying that they didn't have to take out such a big part of their offense just because Rodgers is there instead of Favre..

That said, that's not why they did it. To quote MM, "It comes down to special teams."

[Pacopete4]

The way I read it, in a way, Paco complimented Rodgers, saying that they didn't have to take out such a big part of their offense just because Rodgers is there instead of Favre..

That said, that's not why they did it. To quote MM, "It comes down to special teams."


good point, maybe I am off base there about special teams but what did Jones do last season? I mean it wasn't like he was our #1 or #2 last year either

[BF4MVP]

The way I read it, in a way, Paco complimented Rodgers, saying that they didn't have to take out such a big part of their offense just because Rodgers is there instead of Favre..

That said, that's not why they did it. To quote MM, "It comes down to special teams."


good point, maybe I am off base there about special teams but what did Jones do last season? I mean it wasn't like he was our #1 or #2 last year either
I agree with you. I'm confused as to why Jones is not seeing the field as well..When Coach says it comes down to special teams, I'm assuming that other positions need shoring up, and he has to use the gameday roster spots for those positions (defensive line has lost Jenkins and KGB so they need more depth there, etc)..Take from a position of strength and use the extra gameday roster spot to add depth to another position..And Jordy and Finley get activated instead of Jones because they play special teams and Jones does not..

Hell I don't even know..My post hardly even makes sense to me :lol:

[Bossman641]

A- our 5 wide set was the only thing good last season
B- he's gonna lose Jones soon if he doesnt see action
C- we are fuckin 4-4 with the way we are playing, 13-3 last season with the way that team played... only one member is gone..... why change so radically?.... stupid

Everything I said to JH about getting over favre...apply to yourself. This is simply inflamatory BS that isn't even worth refuting anymore.

The biggest difference between JH and yourself is that his posts not involving BF are usually pretty solid.


whoa, whoa, whoa Ms. Lippy.... my post really doesn't have anything to do with my love for Favre but more so MM being a dumbass and not using the talent on this team. WE HAVE FIVE VERY GOOD WR'S! Why are they not being used like they were last season? WHY? If its cuz Arod isnt there yet, then fine... but MM said he has the same playbook and I call bullshit because if he did, Jones would be out there making plays like he did last season... hell our 5 this years are even better than last years... so what the fuck are we doing?

C- we are fuckin 4-4 with the way we are playing, 13-3 last season with the way that team played... only one member is gone..... why change so radically?.... stupid

Yea, you are right. Your post in no way insinuates that the team is worse this year only because Favre is gone. :roll:

I'll just assume that "one member" you are talkin about is Corey Williams.


Actually Bossman, that line was to say "heck, we only lost one player, why are we changing our offense that did so well last year?" not fucking, oh we suck cuz Favres not here... it really backed up Rodgers and the rest of the offense really.... but hey, jump down my throat for making a post about why this team may be struggling this year under MM and his pussy pants that he has on this season

I don't know what MM is thinking, but maybe he is trying to be smart with Jones. I know they claim he is healthy, but he has claimed he was good to go before and then reinjured his knee. Maybe he doesn't think Rodgers is ready to go 5 wide in the Metrodome yet, considering how noisy it gets in there. If that's the case, there really is no point to activate Jones then.

Maybe Finley actually is decent and there is more to him than dropped balls, stupid penalties, and mouthing off. :D OK that one's probably false.

Sorry if it seemed like I was jumping down your throat, the "we're 4-4 now and were 13-3 last year with the same team, minus one" comment is what got me. I see what you could have meant now.

[Guiness]

It's hard to fathom - Jones was the #3WR last year. How does he go from #3 to not being dressed?

I'd have to guess that Nelson made the most of his chance, and is now considered the #3, because there's no way you don't dress your #3...

So I'd guess that when it comes down to a choice between Ruvell and Jones, Ruvell brings something extra (very sure hands in the red zone?) to the table.

[MJZiggy]

Ruvell is also a very tall target who can go up and get the ball in traffic. (which is really saying about the same thing, but still...)

[Gunakor]

The 13-3 comparison to 4-4 this year is Bush League

MANY more differences than one player gone

New QB
Corey Williams gone for season
Cullen Jenkins gone for season
Al Harris missed significant playing time already

Last year our offense, and Favre, played like horsecrap against Phily and we squeaked one out we didn't deserve. Breaks went our way last year.
The Chargers had some major injuries when we played them last year; the Giants as well.

Has not happened this year

We have a new team this year; get over the 13-3 comparisons.

We were playing Charlie Peprah at FS for a time... and rookie Jeremy Thompson at DE. Justin Harrell and Michael Montgomery get healthy and activated make the D-Line look very solid once again. But while we were playing our 4th DE alongside our 3rd DT, with basically one backup to give them a breather, it didn't look very good.

Ryan Grant is just getting his legs back, our WR's had a rare case of the dropsies early this season, our O-Line doesn't begin to gel until mid season and hadn't last year either. Our schedule has been tougher. Teams that were sure wins because they were horseshit last year look like legitimate playoff contenders this year. There are so many differences between last year and this year I can't count them all.

I agree with B on this one, the comparisons to last year need to end. This is a slightly different team in a very different situation. The two seasons are incomparable.

[Gunakor]

they got to get him in there. the guys got talent, and the 5 wr set is more important then that 11th guy on special teams

what a waste

and fritz is right, this shouldn't be him vs nelson and ruvell. those are both good players that also need to be on the roster

But if Rodgers struggles in the 5WR set, why would you want to activate 5 WR's for the game? To cater to Rodgers strengths and weaknesses, you are only going to play 4 WR's anyhow. That's what Rodgers is more comfortable with. Why carry a 5th if he's not going to play?

[Harlan Huckleby]

It's hard to fathom - Jones was the #3WR last year. How does he go from #3 to not being dressed?

MM must be reading this forum.

[Gunakor]

It's hard to fathom - Jones was the #3WR last year. How does he go from #3 to not being dressed?

I'd have to guess that Nelson made the most of his chance, and is now considered the #3, because there's no way you don't dress your #3...

So I'd guess that when it comes down to a choice between Ruvell and Jones, Ruvell brings something extra (very sure hands in the red zone?) to the table.

Ruvell plays on teams too, and has been doing so for a few years. Jones would just be jumping in for the first time, so Ruvell has a huge advantage there as he's much more experienced. Besides, I don't think there's a huge dropoff from Jones to Martin from a WR perspective. I think teams play was the deciding factor here.

[Partial]

I don't understand why they keep loading up talent at WR if they don't intend to play them.

I don't see the problem.

They drafted a WR in Nelson that was an improvement over what they had on the roster. Jones was an improvement over what they had a year ago. Jennings an improvement over what htey had two years ago. Murphy an improvement (except for the injury) over what they had three years ago.

Because building a competitive team requires balance. If they keep drafting receivers that are an improvement year after year... sure, they'll be great and loaded with first rounds pick 1-5 at wideout... but they'll have a weakness elsewhere.

After the ridiculous year we put up offensively through the air last year, I didn't like the pick of Jordy. I'm ok with it now since he looks like he'll be a good player, but at the same time they're having a good player sitting on the bench in Jones right now while having to play some average guys at other spots.

TT has a unquestionable knack for finding talent. Hopefully over the years he becomes better at spreading that talent across the team. Not saying thats it bad, but if he can master this art he'll be one of the best

[cpk1994]

It's hard to fathom - Jones was the #3WR last year. How does he go from #3 to not being dressed?

MM must be reading this forum.If thats the case, how is Ruvell not #1? :lol:

[sharpe1027]

Ruvell is also a very tall target who can go up and get the ball in traffic. (which is really saying about the same thing, but still...)

Ruvell might be the best blocking WR we have. They seem to run alot with him in there.

[oregonpackfan]

Ruvell is also a very tall target who can go up and get the ball in traffic. (which is really saying about the same thing, but still...)

Ruvell might be the best blocking WR we have. They seem to run alot with him in there.

I agree with this point. Many fans look at receivers solely as pass-catchers. They forget that blocking is also a crucial part of playing receiver.

Martin has established himself as an effective downfield blocker.

[Bretsky]

Ruvell is also a very tall target who can go up and get the ball in traffic. (which is really saying about the same thing, but still...)

I don't remember that many battles like that he has won.

He may be our best blocking WR though

[sharpe1027]

Because building a competitive team requires balance. If they keep drafting receivers that are an improvement year after year... sure, they'll be great and loaded with first rounds pick 1-5 at wideout... but they'll have a weakness elsewhere.

After the ridiculous year we put up offensively through the air last year, I didn't like the pick of Jordy. I'm ok with it now since he looks like he'll be a good player, but at the same time they're having a good player sitting on the bench in Jones right now while having to play some average guys at other spots.

TT has a unquestionable knack for finding talent. Hopefully over the years he becomes better at spreading that talent across the team. Not saying thats it bad, but if he can master this art he'll be one of the best

I see your point. Personally, I'm fine that they used one first-day pick a year on the WR position and hit every time. Driver is solid, but on the downside. Jones looks ok, but doesn't seem to be a legit #2, maybe he will improve...maybe not.

My guess is they were pretty sure that they could get the the guys the liked at the other positions later in the draft.

p.s. How many 1st round picks do they currently have at WR? :wink:

[DonHutson]

When Jones first got hurt I said he needed to get his ass back on the field or he was going to fall off the radar.

Nelson has talent. Martin is a Rodgers favorite. Driver and Jennings aren't going anywhere... outta site, outta mind for James Jones.

Ultimately he should work his way back. He's more talented than Ruvell, but he needs to prove he's as reliable as Martin is. I guess he'll need to prove it in practice.

[RashanGary]

When Jones first got hurt I said he needed to get his ass back on the field or he was going to fall off the radar.

Nelson has talent. Martin is a Rodgers favorite. Driver and Jennings aren't going anywhere... outta site, outta mind for James Jones.

Ultimately he should work his way back. He's more talented than Ruvell, but he needs to prove he's as reliable as Martin is. I guess he'll need to prove it in practice.

solid post.

[cheesner]

Because building a competitive team requires balance. If they keep drafting receivers that are an improvement year after year... sure, they'll be great and loaded with first rounds pick 1-5 at wideout... but they'll have a weakness elsewhere.

After the ridiculous year we put up offensively through the air last year, I didn't like the pick of Jordy. I'm ok with it now since he looks like he'll be a good player, but at the same time they're having a good player sitting on the bench in Jones right now while having to play some average guys at other spots.

TT has a unquestionable knack for finding talent. Hopefully over the years he becomes better at spreading that talent across the team. Not saying thats it bad, but if he can master this art he'll be one of the best

I see your point. Personally, I'm fine that they used one first-day pick a year on the WR position and hit every time. Driver is solid, but on the downside. Jones looks ok, but doesn't seem to be a legit #2, maybe he will improve...maybe not.

My guess is they were pretty sure that they could get the the guys the liked at the other positions later in the draft.

p.s. How many 1st round picks do they currently have at WR? :wink:

The question becomes, do you take a less talented player at a position of need or a more talented player at a position of strength. Simply put: drafting less talented players, you will eventually have a less talented team. Never reach for a player because of need - wait till the value matches the pick. TT is doing it right going BPA all the way. Especially in these days. Look at the Harrell pick. Everyone groaned because it was perceived we didn't need a DT. Now, due to injuries and FA loss (trade) we have a need.