Here are some INTELLIGENT conversations on todays game

[ND72]

#1 - OL sucked. Across the board. Clifton is done, he needs to be pulled.

#2 - Minnesota defensively had a great plan. They said you can't run the ball, so they had their 4 DL guys go as hard and fast as they could straight up field. We made no adjustment to that.

#3 - Our defense played pretty well. Adrian Peterson is one of those guys that will get his yards, you just gotta contain him. But, again we made no adjustments. 2nd half Minny came out 3 wide, moving our LB's out, and continued to do the same stuff they did in the 1st half. Out schemed us.

#4 - No attempt at the running game. Chad Clifton kills our Running game by himself, but that's besides the point. McCarthy allows no chance to improve and no chance to get any momentum going in the running game. 1st down we get 8 yards, then we throw the next 2 plays. What the hell is that? PROBABLY Aaron Rodgers fault there though huh?

#5 - ZERO creativeness. Predictable when they run the ball, predictable when the throw the ball. I'm sure it's not the case, but it does seem as though we are running the same run plays and the same pass plays all the time. We run digs, hitches, comebacks, and slants. We have an occasional go route or deep posts/flags, but generally nothing different. Everytime we ran 5 wide, we ran 5 slants, most of them were to Driver in the middle...and the MLB never moved on any of those plays. I don't know what McCarthy was expecting, but whatever he was expecting, didn't work, but he didn't change. Running the ball is gross. Last week we ran 3 inside counter plays for 37 yards....what the hell? Why don't we do that 30 times? Today we ran 2 toss zones (zone play but instead of a hand off, it's a pitch) for 26 yards. Again, what the hell?

#6 - Refs were horrible. BS safety call. BS illegal contact on Al Harris. NO illegal contact when Jennings got tripped. Adrian Peterson kept taking his helmet off on the field.

#7 - I like Bishop...but wouldn't Chillar be a better choice as our #4 LB?

#8 - Yes, Rodgers struggled...but how does this game become his fault? I guess I just don't get it. The man is getting creamed, and so many people expect him to just hang in there and be comfortable. I find it hard to blame the man.

#9 - LB's! Barnett cannot get off blocks. Poopinga still takes horrible angles. Hawk needs to stop thinking...He's a reactionary player, I tend to feel Sanders "defense" has taken away his aggressiveness, wanting him to stay in his lanes, and other bs like that.

#10 - More on the use of our RB's & TE's. When do we throw to RB's? Answer: 3rd and long, dump off to Brandon Jackson...and that's it. Teams know if they bring the house, we keep our RB's & TE's in, leaving only 2 or 3 WR's to go for a pass. Match up your DB's & send 8 guys, gotta get rid of the ball quickly, which weirdly enough...Minnesota did early & often.

[Partial]

The lack of offensive balance ( We have no creativity... I don't blame the running game or the OL, I blame the scrambling ).

The lack of rush defense.

Grant was running pretty well today I thought. He looks fast and strong again. Dude can only do so much without balance. Rodgers needs to get his act together.

[cpk1994]

#4. They had a ton of penalties agin. That will kill any attempt to have a run game.

#8.Their is a certian section that expects to play exactly like Favre did. Reasons for that are ovious. If ARod struggles, the cries get even louder than normal because of it.

I agree with the rest of your excellent points and analysis.

[imscott72]

I don't get the blaming Rodgers either. He hung on a couple of times too long, for 90% of the time he had no chance. It's easy for us to sit on our coaches and yell at him for not making any plays, but when you have 300 pound guys constantly in your face and diving at you, you're going to flush the pocket too. The line is totally to blame for the lack of offense today imo..

[ND72]

#4. They had a ton of penalties agin. That will kill any attempt to have a run game.

#8.Their is a certian section that expects to play exactly like Favre did. Reasons for that are ovious. If ARod struggles, the cries get even louder than normal because of it.

I agree with the rest of your excellent points and analysis.

Do I think Rodgers held the ball on plays, yes, but we might not have been able to look downfield to see how well guys were covered, cause we were keeping 7 guys in to pass protect.

[Noodle]

Great post!

I'll focus on one thing -- I think No. 2 (Minny D scheme of sending DL straight at us) and No. 5 (no creativity) were the absolute keys today. You bet the Zone Toss worked -- it got the RB outside the the DL and gave our suck OL a chance to cut.

We don't screen to our RB (Grant's hands can't be THAT bad). We don't get the ball out quick to a receiver with a bubble screen. We just don't adjust. Counters would have also worked, as you say.

But having Arod stand in there and get whacked when your OL blows is not a thinking man's way to win a ball game.

[cpk1994]

It is always said that games are won/lost in the trenches. GB definitely lost the game in the trenches today.

[Partial]

#4. They had a ton of penalties agin. That will kill any attempt to have a run game.

#8.Their is a certian section that expects to play exactly like Favre did. Reasons for that are ovious. If ARod struggles, the cries get even louder than normal because of it.

I agree with the rest of your excellent points and analysis.

The penalties are out of hand. This team is not focused imo. We have BY FAR the most penalties in the league. That's pretty ridiculous and does not seem like a McCarthy coached team.

It's very tough to judge whether the play calling is bad or if Rodgers is being too conservative. Also, one could consider that now that their is some game tape of him available, teams are finding it much easier to account for him.

4 out of the last 7 games have been awful for the passing offense. The ones that weren't: Seahawks (awful team this year), Indy ( pretty banged up team.. not exactly known for defense when Bob Sanders is out ), and a gutsy performance against the Falcons.

[ND72]

If I can just bitch on the refs one more time (I'm a coach, it comes easily)...Holding calls on Driver & another one on Colledge on 2 different run plays, bother were long run plays, killer. Bother were horrible calls.

[Rastak]

If I can just bitch on the refs one more time (I'm a coach, it comes easily)...Holding calls on Driver & another one on Colledge on 2 different run plays, bother were long run plays, killer. Bother were horrible calls.


What the hell was the deal with the Vikings getting called on defense for holding ON A RUN?

[ND72]

If I can just bitch on the refs one more time (I'm a coach, it comes easily)...Holding calls on Driver & another one on Colledge on 2 different run plays, bother were long run plays, killer. Bother were horrible calls.


What the hell was the deal with the Vikings getting called on defense for holding ON A RUN?


Here's the funny thing. By High School rule, it was defensive holding...how often do you see that in the NFL, eh. Was it defensive holding? Yes....in the NFL? NO

[MJZiggy]

I'm thinking Cliff needs to sit (you have no idea how I hate to say that).

You're right. Minny planned and executed well.

Collins and Woodson deserve defensive kudos for the picks--they force Woodson off his receiver and they still get the pick. Priceless.

Nah, there were a few times I expected them to air it out, but they didn't. Wonder how much Rodgers' shoulder is hurting.

Did Barnett ever come back in the game after he went out with that knee?

[BallHawk]

It is always said that games are won/lost in the trenches. GB definitely lost the game in the trenches today.

If games will always be decided in the trenches than say goodbye to the playoffs.

We've just gotta have our secondary and offense overcome our lack of trench play. Today the secondary delivered, but the offense didn't.

[cpk1994]

I'm thinking Cliff needs to sit (you have no idea how I hate to say that).

You're right. Minny planned and executed well.

Collins and Woodson deserve defensive kudos for the picks--they force Woodson off his receiver and they still get the pick. Priceless.

Nah, there were a few times I expected them to air it out, but they didn't. Wonder how much Rodgers' shoulder is hurting.

Did Barnett ever come back in the game after he went out with that knee?

Rogers shoulder is the $64,000 question. According to Aikman, Rodgers said it still bothers him.

[ND72]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

[MJZiggy]

It's Tory Humphrey. They just haven't figured it out yet. In all seriousness, Jennings is elite and if he's eating defenders, then there's Driver.

[Rastak]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.


Jennings is kinda that guy. Rodgers was under attack alot of the game and they kept their cover 2 intact. I think Jennings was a main focus of the Vikings defense. The due can really play though.

[Partial]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

[cpk1994]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!! :roll:

[Partial]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.


Jennings is kinda that guy. Rodgers was under attack alot of the game and they kept their cover 2 intact. I think Jennings a main focus of the Vikings defense. The due can really play though.

Nobody on the field has an 8th of the talent of AD though. He's unreal.

[Rastak]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!


You might if he's 100 years old.... :wink:

[imscott72]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.

[Pacopete4]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

[cpk1994]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too... :roll:

[ND72]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

I'd argue that, but I'm not gonna waste the time on that.

[bobblehead]

If I can just bitch on the refs one more time (I'm a coach, it comes easily)...Holding calls on Driver & another one on Colledge on 2 different run plays, bother were long run plays, killer. Bother were horrible calls.


What the hell was the deal with the Vikings getting called on defense for holding ON A RUN?


Here's the funny thing. By High School rule, it was defensive holding...how often do you see that in the NFL, eh. Was it defensive holding? Yes....in the NFL? NO

that call on college late in the game after we stuffed peterson on 4th was a shit call and a momentum changer. We snapped off a big run into their 20, instead a phantom hold on college gets called and its 1st and 20 near midfield.

[ND72]

If I can just bitch on the refs one more time (I'm a coach, it comes easily)...Holding calls on Driver & another one on Colledge on 2 different run plays, bother were long run plays, killer. Bother were horrible calls.


What the hell was the deal with the Vikings getting called on defense for holding ON A RUN?


Here's the funny thing. By High School rule, it was defensive holding...how often do you see that in the NFL, eh. Was it defensive holding? Yes....in the NFL? NO

that call on college late in the game after we stuffed peterson on 4th was a shit call and a momentum changer. We snapped off a big run into their 20, instead a phantom hold on college gets called and its 1st and 20 near midfield.

amen.

[th87]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

I thought this was called the intelligent conversation? What are you doing here?

[cpk1994]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

I thought this was called the intelligent conversation? What are you doing here? I was thinking the same thing. :lol:

[Noodle]

I'm not sold on Jennings being a Wow guy. His strength has been slants and then YAC. But teams are starting to put a safety on top of him, allowing the CB to play him tighter, which I'm guessing (without having seen film) has made it harder for him to get open on the shorter routes. And it's tough to go downfield when the OL doesn't passpro for shite.

Grant was tough today, and can be close to WoW guy, but he has never struck me as the AD/Ahman Green home run type of runner that makes you say Wow.

[Pacopete4]

Jennings as a wow guy?... ya he's really wow'd me the last 2 weeks? Like WOW where the hell are u?

[cpk1994]

I'm not sold on Jennings being a Wow guy. His strength has been slants and then YAC. But teams are starting to put a safety on top of him, allowing the CB to play him tighter, which I'm guessing (without having seen film) has made it harder for him to get open on the shorter routes. And it's tough to go downfield when the OL doesn't passpro for shite.

Grant was tough today, and can be close to WoW guy, but he has never struck me as the AD/Ahman Green home run type of runner that makes you say Wow.But I think the reason for that is is becuase no other WR has stepped up to take the pressure off him. Someone has to be open if they are putting an extra defender on Jennings. Of course when your OL is a sieve its hard to get the ball to any WR in the first place.

[MJZiggy]

A WOW RB knocks guys backward when he hits them.

[Pacopete4]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

I thought this was called the intelligent conversation? What are you doing here? I was thinking the same thing. :lol:


hehehe oh you guys!!! :whaa:

[imscott72]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

There's no sense rehashing all this because we don't know what was really said or not said. As Brett said both sides could of done a better job communicating and handling the whole matter.

[Noodle]

A WOW RB knocks guys backward when he hits them.

Very true. Man I used to love the way AG finished runs -- he would definitely bring the pain.

[Pacopete4]

A WOW RB knocks guys backward when he hits them.

Very true. Man I used to love the way AG finished runs -- he would definitely bring the pain.


ya he was a very good runner... but not great

[texaspackerbacker]

#1 - OL sucked. Across the board. Clifton is done, he needs to be pulled.

#2 - Minnesota defensively had a great plan. They said you can't run the ball, so they had their 4 DL guys go as hard and fast as they could straight up field. We made no adjustment to that.

#3 - Our defense played pretty well. Adrian Peterson is one of those guys that will get his yards, you just gotta contain him. But, again we made no adjustments. 2nd half Minny came out 3 wide, moving our LB's out, and continued to do the same stuff they did in the 1st half. Out schemed us.

#4 - No attempt at the running game. Chad Clifton kills our Running game by himself, but that's besides the point. McCarthy allows no chance to improve and no chance to get any momentum going in the running game. 1st down we get 8 yards, then we throw the next 2 plays. What the hell is that? PROBABLY Aaron Rodgers fault there though huh?

#5 - ZERO creativeness. Predictable when they run the ball, predictable when the throw the ball. I'm sure it's not the case, but it does seem as though we are running the same run plays and the same pass plays all the time. We run digs, hitches, comebacks, and slants. We have an occasional go route or deep posts/flags, but generally nothing different. Everytime we ran 5 wide, we ran 5 slants, most of them were to Driver in the middle...and the MLB never moved on any of those plays. I don't know what McCarthy was expecting, but whatever he was expecting, didn't work, but he didn't change. Running the ball is gross. Last week we ran 3 inside counter plays for 37 yards....what the hell? Why don't we do that 30 times? Today we ran 2 toss zones (zone play but instead of a hand off, it's a pitch) for 26 yards. Again, what the hell?

#6 - Refs were horrible. BS safety call. BS illegal contact on Al Harris. NO illegal contact when Jennings got tripped. Adrian Peterson kept taking his helmet off on the field.

#7 - I like Bishop...but wouldn't Chillar be a better choice as our #4 LB?

#8 - Yes, Rodgers struggled...but how does this game become his fault? I guess I just don't get it. The man is getting creamed, and so many people expect him to just hang in there and be comfortable. I find it hard to blame the man.

#9 - LB's! Barnett cannot get off blocks. Poopinga still takes horrible angles. Hawk needs to stop thinking...He's a reactionary player, I tend to feel Sanders "defense" has taken away his aggressiveness, wanting him to stay in his lanes, and other bs like that.

#10 - More on the use of our RB's & TE's. When do we throw to RB's? Answer: 3rd and long, dump off to Brandon Jackson...and that's it. Teams know if they bring the house, we keep our RB's & TE's in, leaving only 2 or 3 WR's to go for a pass. Match up your DB's & send 8 guys, gotta get rid of the ball quickly, which weirdly enough...Minnesota did early & often.

I agree with most of what you say.

Chillar is not a MLB. It had to be Bishop.

Hawk is stinking it up this season--looking like a total bust. I hope it's injuries, and he snaps out of it, but he looks slow, weak, and not agile.

We couldn't use bubble screens or whatever--too much penetration--it could have been a pick six.

Anybody doesn't like the way Rodgers handled good coverage/good pressure against him--too much hesitation, not taking enough chances, look no further than Frerotte. He damn near blew the game for them doing things the other way.

Yes, the Viking pass rush was awesome; Yes, Peterson is a force of nature. However, I've seen more than a few other Viking games this year where AP was downright ordinary and their D was nothing special at all. Maybe the Packers ineptness made them that good today, but I prefer to think we just ran into a fairly decent team playing way over their heads (on D, anyway) and a superstar RB finally getting healthy and playing like he should.

I have a bad feeling the detractors are going to find out that Nick Barnett is a helluva lot better and more important than they give him credit for. The injury didn't look like a back-next-week type thing--either moderately serious or else very serious. I hope I'm wrong.

I'd like to see more Rouse and a little less Bigby. Actually, I'd like to see both on the field with one less linebacker.

I say again, it is pure stupidity to bad mouth the Bob Sanders defense. Some talking head on the pre-game show said, "the best pass defense is a good pass rush". WRONG! The best pass defense is good coverage and DBs that make plays.

Despite the outcome of today's game, I'll take the Packers D over the Vikings D any day. And the Vikings are damn good.

Oh yeah, the refs really DID suck, but there were enough justified penalties to say the Packer were really ragged.

And one more thing, does anybody still want to claim Rodgers is "fragile"?

[Pacopete4]

#1 - OL sucked. Across the board. Clifton is done, he needs to be pulled.

#2 - Minnesota defensively had a great plan. They said you can't run the ball, so they had their 4 DL guys go as hard and fast as they could straight up field. We made no adjustment to that.

#3 - Our defense played pretty well. Adrian Peterson is one of those guys that will get his yards, you just gotta contain him. But, again we made no adjustments. 2nd half Minny came out 3 wide, moving our LB's out, and continued to do the same stuff they did in the 1st half. Out schemed us.

#4 - No attempt at the running game. Chad Clifton kills our Running game by himself, but that's besides the point. McCarthy allows no chance to improve and no chance to get any momentum going in the running game. 1st down we get 8 yards, then we throw the next 2 plays. What the hell is that? PROBABLY Aaron Rodgers fault there though huh?

#5 - ZERO creativeness. Predictable when they run the ball, predictable when the throw the ball. I'm sure it's not the case, but it does seem as though we are running the same run plays and the same pass plays all the time. We run digs, hitches, comebacks, and slants. We have an occasional go route or deep posts/flags, but generally nothing different. Everytime we ran 5 wide, we ran 5 slants, most of them were to Driver in the middle...and the MLB never moved on any of those plays. I don't know what McCarthy was expecting, but whatever he was expecting, didn't work, but he didn't change. Running the ball is gross. Last week we ran 3 inside counter plays for 37 yards....what the hell? Why don't we do that 30 times? Today we ran 2 toss zones (zone play but instead of a hand off, it's a pitch) for 26 yards. Again, what the hell?

#6 - Refs were horrible. BS safety call. BS illegal contact on Al Harris. NO illegal contact when Jennings got tripped. Adrian Peterson kept taking his helmet off on the field.

#7 - I like Bishop...but wouldn't Chillar be a better choice as our #4 LB?

#8 - Yes, Rodgers struggled...but how does this game become his fault? I guess I just don't get it. The man is getting creamed, and so many people expect him to just hang in there and be comfortable. I find it hard to blame the man.

#9 - LB's! Barnett cannot get off blocks. Poopinga still takes horrible angles. Hawk needs to stop thinking...He's a reactionary player, I tend to feel Sanders "defense" has taken away his aggressiveness, wanting him to stay in his lanes, and other bs like that.

#10 - More on the use of our RB's & TE's. When do we throw to RB's? Answer: 3rd and long, dump off to Brandon Jackson...and that's it. Teams know if they bring the house, we keep our RB's & TE's in, leaving only 2 or 3 WR's to go for a pass. Match up your DB's & send 8 guys, gotta get rid of the ball quickly, which weirdly enough...Minnesota did early & often.

I agree with most of what you say.

Chillar is not a MLB. It had to be Bishop.

Hawk is stinking it up this season--looking like a total bust. I hope it's injuries, and he snaps out of it, but he looks slow, weak, and not agile.

We couldn't use bubble screens or whatever--too much penetration--it could have been a pick six.

Anybody doesn't like the way Rodgers handled good coverage/good pressure against him--too much hesitation, not taking enough chances, look no further than Frerotte. He damn near blew the game for them.

Yes, the Viking pass rush was awesome; Yes, Peterson is a force of nature. However, I've seen more than a few other Viking games this year where AP was downright ordinary and their D was nothing special at all. Maybe the Packers ineptness made them that good today, but I prefer to think we just ran into a fairly decent team playing way over their heads (on D, anyway) and a superstar RB finally getting healthy and playing like he should.

I have a bad feeling the detractors are going to find out that Nick Barnett is a helluva lot better and more important than they give him credit for. The injury didn't look like a back-next-week type thing--either moderately serious or else very serious. I hope I'm wrong.

I'd like to see more Rouse and a little less Bigby. Actually, I'd like to see both on the field with one less linebacker.

I say again, it is pure stupidity to bad mouth the Bob Sanders defense. Some talking head on the pre-game show said, "the best pass defense is a good pass rush". WRONG! The best pass defense is good coverage and DBs that make plays.

Despite the outcome of today's game, I'll take the Packers D over the Vikings D any day. And the Vikings are damn good.

Oh yeah, the refs really DID suck, but there were enough justified penalties to say the Packer were really ragged.

And one more thing, does anybody still want to claim Rodgers is "fragile"?


eh, maybe... but i still claim hes not a winner

[dissident94]

Ok Rodgers takes no blame I guess for playing like crap for a few weeks now. He isn't playing well. I commend him for plyaing throuhg pain. But the rush is bad but not crazy. I still stand by it that he is making the pass rush look better than it is against us for weeks. He scrambles right into the rush sometimes instead of staying in the pocket. NOt only this game but for awhile now.

[MJZiggy]

What I don't understand, is that in the first couple of games, he'd run for the first down if nothing was available and he had the room. The last couple of weeks, he's done no north and south running. No sneaks either.

[Pacopete4]

What I don't understand, is that in the first couple of games, he'd run for the first down if nothing was available and he had the room. The last couple of weeks, he's done no north and south running. No sneaks either.


http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=15583

[cpk1994]

What I don't understand, is that in the first couple of games, he'd run for the first down if nothing was available and he had the room. The last couple of weeks, he's done no north and south running. No sneaks either.Kind of hard to run North south when the interior of the OL can't even create apocket.

[MJZiggy]

There were a couple plays today where he ran out of the collapsing pocket and had some daylight in front of him...I'm not saying, I'm just sayin'

[Gunakor]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

Goes both ways Paco, Favre is no saint.

[Gunakor]

Ok Rodgers takes no blame I guess for playing like crap for a few weeks now. He isn't playing well. I commend him for plyaing throuhg pain. But the rush is bad but not crazy. I still stand by it that he is making the pass rush look better than it is against us for weeks. He scrambles right into the rush sometimes instead of staying in the pocket. NOt only this game but for awhile now.

He's had 2 bad games in a row, against 2 of the better defenses in the NFL, both games being played on the road. Keep in mind he beat the Vikings at home earlier this season. Rodgers is fine. That is the least of this teams concerns right now.

[Pacopete4]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

Goes both ways Paco, Favre is no saint.


ur right.. but ill give him the benefit of the doubt

[cpk1994]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

Goes both ways Paco, Favre is no saint.Gunokar, Don't. Paco has been acting like a troll since the game ended.

[DonHutson]

#7 - I like Bishop...but wouldn't Chillar be a better choice as our #4 LB?

Chillar would be the next guy in if Hawk or Poppinga got hurt. Bishop is next in line in the middle. And Bishop is usually pretty solid, though he was more down than up today.


#10 - More on the use of our RB's & TE's. When do we throw to RB's? Answer: 3rd and long, dump off to Brandon Jackson...and that's it.

Grant does some things well, but he is not a receiver and therefore, not a complete back. The only passes to the RB's are on 3rd and long because that's the time Jackson is most likely to be on the field. It would really open up the offense if Jackson could get to be more reliable as an everydown runner.

[Harlan Huckleby]

- I like Bishop...but wouldn't Chillar be a better choice as our #4 LB? .

I heard Chillar was inactive today because of injury.


He would have played for Barnett if he was available.

[Deputy Nutz]

I didn't realize how much Hawk's groin injury is bothering him. Early in the fourth quarter he Peterson came at him in space and hawk turned to the outside and when Peterson cut back to the inside Hawk couldn't even swivel his hips back to the inside.

Say what you want about him, but he just isn't as explosive as he was the first three weeks of the season.

I wouldn't mind seeing Chillar move to the outside an see Hawk play the middle if Barnett is out for any serious length of time.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I didn't realize how much Hawk's groin injury is bothering him. Early in the fourth quarter he Peterson came at him in space and hawk turned to the outside and when Peterson cut back to the inside Hawk couldn't even swivel his hips back to the inside.

Say what you want about him, but he just isn't as explosive as he was the first three weeks of the season.

I wouldn't mind seeing Chillar move to the outside an see Hawk play the middle if Barnett is out for any serious length of time.
Hawk did look a bit slow. It seemed that the LBs bit hard on any moves the RBs made both in run support and pass coverage.

[Harlan Huckleby]

what I saw was a lack of gang tackling.

Peterson was able to cut back, or somehow make the primary tackler miss, and the rest of the Packers looked like they were just standing around, assuming the player or two closest to Peterson would make the tackle. They weren't hustling to fence-in Peterson.

[Partial]

A WOW RB knocks guys backward when he hits them.

Very true. Man I used to love the way AG finished runs -- he would definitely bring the pain.


ya he was a very good runner... but not great

Ahman Green isn't wow. He's a great back, but he won't be remembered like Barry Sanders, etc. Adrian Peterson will be.

[Partial]

What I don't understand, is that in the first couple of games, he'd run for the first down if nothing was available and he had the room. The last couple of weeks, he's done no north and south running. No sneaks either.

two words: game tapes.

Teams are finding him out. Thus, he had success against Dallas, Minne and Detroit.. He's been only OK at best them. Looking at the past 7 games, 4 of them were awful, awful games.

[Partial]

I didn't realize how much Hawk's groin injury is bothering him. Early in the fourth quarter he Peterson came at him in space and hawk turned to the outside and when Peterson cut back to the inside Hawk couldn't even swivel his hips back to the inside.

Say what you want about him, but he just isn't as explosive as he was the first three weeks of the season.

I wouldn't mind seeing Chillar move to the outside an see Hawk play the middle if Barnett is out for any serious length of time.

There is not a doubt in my mind that he is really banged up. It's night and day. He's not even close to the same player. I expected pro bowl from him. Hopefully he gets healthy soon!!

[MateoInMex]

I'm thinking Cliff needs to sit (you have no idea how I hate to say that).

You're right. Minny planned and executed well.

Collins and Woodson deserve defensive kudos for the picks--they force Woodson off his receiver and they still get the pick. Priceless.

Nah, there were a few times I expected them to air it out, but they didn't. Wonder how much Rodgers' shoulder is hurting.

Did Barnett ever come back in the game after he went out with that knee?

Rogers shoulder is the $64,000 question. According to Aikman, Rodgers said it still bothers him.


More like the 20 million dollar and some change question. Protecting an investment like that is crucial. Jesus Christ, if Ted Thompson refuses to find quality O-Linemen, can't someone override his fucking decisions?

LOL

[GrnBay007]

More like the 20 million dollar and some change question. Protecting an investment like that is crucial.

Maybe TT should have spent a "dime" or two.

[MateoInMex]

More like the 20 million dollar and some change question. Protecting an investment like that is crucial.

Maybe TT should have spent a "dime" or two.


Exactly Sassy. What a cheap a$$, but I do like a lot of what Ted Thompson has done. 8-) But the good thing is next week, and I would expect Mike McCarthy and his coaches to shore this stuff up, especially against Chicago.

[MOBB DEEP]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

Goes both ways Paco, Favre is no saint.


true, he's a jet and they're 6-3

[Tarlam!]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.


Jennings is kinda that guy. Rodgers was under attack alot of the game and they kept their cover 2 intact. I think Jennings a main focus of the Vikings defense. The due can really play though.

Nobody on the field has an 8th of the talent of AD though. He's unreal.

That would be AP, and, I agree. I soooooooo wish he were a Packer or any non NFCN player.

[Zool]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.


Jennings is kinda that guy. Rodgers was under attack alot of the game and they kept their cover 2 intact. I think Jennings a main focus of the Vikings defense. The due can really play though.

Nobody on the field has an 8th of the talent of AD though. He's unreal.

That would be AP, and, I agree. I soooooooo wish he were a Packer or any non NFCN player.

Tar, his nickname is AD as in All Day.

[imscott72]

More like the 20 million dollar and some change question. Protecting an investment like that is crucial.

Maybe TT should have spent a "dime" or two.

See that's what I just don't understand about Thompson. I agree that FA's aren't the sole answer to every question like Jerry Jones thinks, but good grief, there were a couple linemen out there that could of helped us out and Thompson just sat on all that money. Now look at our situation. Trading Williams instead of paying the man looks like a incredibly foolish move now. Thompson's hate of free agency is killing this team in these areas.

[imscott72]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

Goes both ways Paco, Favre is no saint.


true, he's a jet and they're 6-3

Yeah they're 6-3, but it certainly isn't all because of Favre. The Jets have a fantastic front 7, a great offensive line, and an above average RB in Jones. Favre didn't do much of anything yesterday, yet they put almost 50 on the Rams. The Jets are a solid team all around, and Favre was an addition that supplmented what they already had.

[cpk1994]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

Goes both ways Paco, Favre is no saint.


true, he's a jet and they're 6-3

Yeah they're 6-3, but it certainly isn't all because of Favre. The Jets have a fantastic front 7, a great offensive line, and an above average RB in Jones. Favre didn't do much of anything yesterday, yet they put almost 50 on the Rams. The Jets are a solid team all around, and Favre was an addition that supplmented what they already had.You should also add they have had one of the easiest schedules in the legaue. They have played KC, Stl, and Oak, the 3 worst teams in the NFL.

[LEWCWA]

This is what I saw yesterday. I saw a team not ready to play. I saw several questionable calls by the refs, most of which went against GreenBay.
I saw a QB going through a learning curve. Through all the adversity I saw a team with a chance to win at the end. In the end, my blame is all for MM for his ultra conservative calls at the end. It was like he was setting up for a 50 yard fg!!!

[LEWCWA]

The D and ST got GB back in the game, but that caused the D to be on the field the whold 3rd quarter. The were worn down at the end.

[LEWCWA]

cover 2 with alot of pressure all day! Where were our TE's and RB's?

[Gunakor]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

Goes both ways Paco, Favre is no saint.


true, he's a jet and they're 6-3


You seem like the type that would watch every Jets game, so answer this question honestly based on what you have seen...

WHY are the Jets 6-3?

And if you say it's because they now have Brett Favre rather than Chad Pennington without even mentioning their revamped OL or their vastly improved defense, you lose all credibility. Keep in mind how many games Favre would have COST the Jets if it weren't for their defense and running game. Think about how many games Favre would have COST the Packers last season if it weren't for OUR defense and special teams. Point being, Favre does not change the fortunes of an entire franchise all by himself. The Jets made A LOT of changes to thier roster during the offseason, Favre was just one of them.

This is not a slight against Favre, just an illustration of the bigger picture that you and others refuse to see. It is an objective look at what is, rather than a subjective view of what you'd like.

Brett is a great QB, but as I said, he's no Saint. And the Jets being 6-3 has NOTHING to do with the way TT treated Brett or the way Brett treated TT. So your reply to my post makes no sense whatsoever. I can't believe I wasted 3 minutes of my time responding to it...

[LEWCWA]

All in all, Crosby has to step up and make that fg. No excuse for missing it in a dome......

[LEWCWA]

One thing I've been frustrated with our lack of WOW guys on offense. Tennessee had Chris Johnson, Minnesota has AP...and that's just the past 2 weeks. We don't have "that guy" on offense. Jennings is probably our closest guy, but you gotta be able to get him the ball.

We traded our wow guy for a 4th round conditional pick. You don't trade 'Wow' guys!!

What else were they suppose to do with him? He didn't want to play here even after given the opportunity to do so. Please stop blaming the Packers for Brett wanting out.


maybe cuz he was treated like trash?... hes done more for us than TT/MM will do combined and treated like trash? I'd wanna play elsewhere too...

Goes both ways Paco, Favre is no saint.


true, he's a jet and they're 6-3


You seem like the type that would watch every Jets game, so answer this question honestly based on what you have seen...

WHY are the Jets 6-3?

And if you say it's because they now have Brett Favre rather than Chad Pennington without even mentioning their revamped OL or their vastly improved defense, you lose all credibility. Keep in mind how many games Favre would have COST the Jets if it weren't for their defense and running game. Think about how many games Favre would have COST the Packers last season if it weren't for OUR defense and special teams. Point being, Favre does not change the fortunes of an entire franchise all by himself. The Jets made A LOT of changes to thier roster during the offseason, Favre was just one of them.

This is not a slight against Favre, just an illustration of the bigger picture that you and others refuse to see. It is an objective look at what is, rather than a subjective view of what you'd like.

Brett is a great QB, but as I said, he's no Saint. And the Jets being 6-3 has NOTHING to do with the way TT treated Brett or the way Brett treated TT. So your reply to my post makes no sense whatsoever. I can't believe I wasted 3 minutes of my time responding to it...



Yes you spend plenty of time playing down BF's effect on the Jets. I'm sure to a man, the Jets will rave about Brett's pressence on that team and give him alot of credit for their resurgence. How much has he helped Jones running by being on the field? You can't play the same type of D against him as you can against Pennington. Don't downplay Brett. His team is doing well. Its that simple!

[Gunakor]

Yes you spend plenty of time playing down BF's effect on the Jets. I'm sure to a man, the Jets will rave about Brett's pressence on that team and give him alot of credit for their resurgence. How much has he helped Jones running by being on the field? You can't play the same type of D against him as you can against Pennington. Don't downplay Brett. His team is doing well. Its that simple!

I spend time playing UP the rest of the team. Don't you get it? Yes, Brett is an upgrade from Pennington. But that is but one piece in the newly put together puzzle in New York. They have a revamped OL that has every bit as much to do with Jones' success as Brett Favre under center. They have a much better defense - night and day compared to last year - which is not really affected by having Favre under center. And BOTH of those pieces of that puzzle have every bit as much to do with their success this year as does Favre. Even moreso IMO, because last year they had a QB who did not turn the ball over as much, thus putting additional pressure on the defense and RB and special teams to respond to those mistakes.

This isn't about downplaying Favre. It's agruing that Favre is NOT the reason the Jets are having success. If TT and MM had Favre come back to start for the Green Bay Packers this year and Pennington were still a Jet, the Packers might be better than 4-5 but the Jets wouldn't be that much worse than 6-3. THAT is what I'm getting at.

P.S. I rarely post in this thread, so your assertion that I spend all of my time worrying about Favre is patently false. I'm a Packer fan. I spend most of my time on Packer threads, and pop in here once and a while to read what people are saying. Funny, every time I come in here it's the same 3 people that continue to argue that Favre could walk on water if he had to. He's the greatest thing since sliced bread. He could win a game 1 vs. 11 if asked. Newsflash - he is JUST a QB. An exceptional QB at that, but nothing more. Keep things in perspective and you won't hear me bitching about your posts. Sound fair?

[Pacopete4]

Yes you spend plenty of time playing down BF's effect on the Jets. I'm sure to a man, the Jets will rave about Brett's pressence on that team and give him alot of credit for their resurgence. How much has he helped Jones running by being on the field? You can't play the same type of D against him as you can against Pennington. Don't downplay Brett. His team is doing well. Its that simple!

I spend time playing UP the rest of the team. Don't you get it? Yes, Brett is an upgrade from Pennington. But that is but one piece in the newly put together puzzle in New York. They have a revamped OL that has every bit as much to do with Jones' success as Brett Favre under center. They have a much better defense - night and day compared to last year - which is not really affected by having Favre under center. And BOTH of those pieces of that puzzle have every bit as much to do with their success this year as does Favre. Even moreso IMO, because last year they had a QB who did not turn the ball over as much, thus putting additional pressure on the defense and RB and special teams to respond to those mistakes.

This isn't about downplaying Favre. It's agruing that Favre is NOT the reason the Jets are having success. If TT and MM had Favre come back to start for the Green Bay Packers this year and Pennington were still a Jet, the Packers might be better than 4-5 but the Jets wouldn't be that much worse than 6-3. THAT is what I'm getting at.

P.S. I rarely post in this thread, so your assertion that I spend all of my time worrying about Favre is patently false. I'm a Packer fan. I spend most of my time on Packer threads, and pop in here once and a while to read what people are saying. Funny, every time I come in here it's the same 3 people that continue to argue that Favre could walk on water if he had to. He's the greatest thing since sliced bread. He could win a game 1 vs. 11 if asked. Newsflash - he is JUST a QB. An exceptional QB at that, but nothing more. Keep things in perspective and you won't hear me bitching about your posts. Sound fair?



Ive heard no one say that the sole reason the jets are 6-3 is because of Brett Favre.... but if u dont think he is a key role in it, ur just ignorant... teams defend him differently whether or not u wanna believe it... they are 6-3 and just starting to hit their stride, LIKE GOOD TEAMS DO THIS TIME OF THE YEAR!... this is exactly what everyone didnt want was to see him go to a team and make the packers look like fools... well here it comes bitches... the jets are gonna do real well... reeeeeaaaal well and watching the packers will make a lot of us puke... it didnt have to be this way but it is and we will live with it in our history forever... J-E-T-S... BRETT! BRETT! BRETT!

[Gunakor]

Yes you spend plenty of time playing down BF's effect on the Jets. I'm sure to a man, the Jets will rave about Brett's pressence on that team and give him alot of credit for their resurgence. How much has he helped Jones running by being on the field? You can't play the same type of D against him as you can against Pennington. Don't downplay Brett. His team is doing well. Its that simple!

I spend time playing UP the rest of the team. Don't you get it? Yes, Brett is an upgrade from Pennington. But that is but one piece in the newly put together puzzle in New York. They have a revamped OL that has every bit as much to do with Jones' success as Brett Favre under center. They have a much better defense - night and day compared to last year - which is not really affected by having Favre under center. And BOTH of those pieces of that puzzle have every bit as much to do with their success this year as does Favre. Even moreso IMO, because last year they had a QB who did not turn the ball over as much, thus putting additional pressure on the defense and RB and special teams to respond to those mistakes.

This isn't about downplaying Favre. It's agruing that Favre is NOT the reason the Jets are having success. If TT and MM had Favre come back to start for the Green Bay Packers this year and Pennington were still a Jet, the Packers might be better than 4-5 but the Jets wouldn't be that much worse than 6-3. THAT is what I'm getting at.

P.S. I rarely post in this thread, so your assertion that I spend all of my time worrying about Favre is patently false. I'm a Packer fan. I spend most of my time on Packer threads, and pop in here once and a while to read what people are saying. Funny, every time I come in here it's the same 3 people that continue to argue that Favre could walk on water if he had to. He's the greatest thing since sliced bread. He could win a game 1 vs. 11 if asked. Newsflash - he is JUST a QB. An exceptional QB at that, but nothing more. Keep things in perspective and you won't hear me bitching about your posts. Sound fair?



Ive heard no one say that the sole reason the jets are 6-3 is because of Brett Favre.... but if u dont think he is a key role in it, ur just ignorant... teams defend him differently whether or not u wanna believe it... they are 6-3 and just starting to hit their stride, LIKE GOOD TEAMS DO THIS TIME OF THE YEAR!... this is exactly what everyone didnt want was to see him go to a team and make the packers look like fools... well here it comes bitches... the jets are gonna do real well... reeeeeaaaal well and watching the packers will make a lot of us puke... it didnt have to be this way but it is and we will live with it in our history forever... J-E-T-S... BRETT! BRETT! BRETT!

I've heard you say it - repeatedly. Yes he has played a role in it, but it is not a huge role or even a key role. Favre turns the ball over more than the guy he replaced at QB, which puts more pressure on the defense and special teams. The defense and special teams have come through.

You keep crying about how Rodgers hasn't "won" a game for the Packers this year, well name a game that Favre "won" for the Jets this year?

I won't hold my breath waiting for your answer...

[Pacopete4]

so his 6 td game doesnt count against the Cardinals?
Game winning pass to coles against KC in the last minute?
An long minute drive against Buffalo to seal the game with a FG?


those are just 3 I can think of.. my beef with Rodgers is/was/most likely always will be, is that he has had the ball in his hands several times now to make a drive to win/tie a game... and he hasnt done it... so far he's no winner to me

[imscott72]

so his 6 td game doesnt count against the Cardinals?
Game winning pass to coles against KC in the last minute?
An long minute drive against Buffalo to seal the game with a FG?


those are just 3 I can think of.. my beef with Rodgers is/was/most likely always will be, is that he has had the ball in his hands several times now to make a drive to win/tie a game... and he hasnt done it... so far he's no winner to me

Paco, we've had this discussion several times already. Comparing Arod's career against the 17 yr career of a HOF QB is apples and oranges. I think most Packer fans can agree given the inconsistency of the offensive line, Arod has played better than we expected to this point. We're 4-5 because of our inability to stop the run, and inability to run the ball late in games to seal the deal. I don't recall any games in his brief 9 game career where I would say we lost the game soley because of Aaron Rodgers.

[Pacopete4]

so his 6 td game doesnt count against the Cardinals?
Game winning pass to coles against KC in the last minute?
An long minute drive against Buffalo to seal the game with a FG?


those are just 3 I can think of.. my beef with Rodgers is/was/most likely always will be, is that he has had the ball in his hands several times now to make a drive to win/tie a game... and he hasnt done it... so far he's no winner to me

Paco, we've had this discussion several times already. Comparing Arod's career against the 17 yr career of a HOF QB is apples and oranges. I think most Packer fans can agree given the inconsistency of the offensive line, Arod has played better than we expected to this point. We're 4-5 because of our inability to stop the run, and inability to run the ball late in games to seal the deal. I don't recall any games in his brief 9 game career where I would say we lost the game soley because of Aaron Rodgers.


ya I know we've done this before.. I guess I wasnt tryin to rip Arod so much as defend Brett... I was more so talking about the situation of how we are going to regret it in weeks to come when they are going to the playoffs and we arent

I've said before and I'll say it again, I think Arod is very talented... I just think he lacks the "it" factor that most of the good QBs have that play this game for awhile..

[imscott72]

so his 6 td game doesnt count against the Cardinals?
Game winning pass to coles against KC in the last minute?
An long minute drive against Buffalo to seal the game with a FG?


those are just 3 I can think of.. my beef with Rodgers is/was/most likely always will be, is that he has had the ball in his hands several times now to make a drive to win/tie a game... and he hasnt done it... so far he's no winner to me

Paco, we've had this discussion several times already. Comparing Arod's career against the 17 yr career of a HOF QB is apples and oranges. I think most Packer fans can agree given the inconsistency of the offensive line, Arod has played better than we expected to this point. We're 4-5 because of our inability to stop the run, and inability to run the ball late in games to seal the deal. I don't recall any games in his brief 9 game career where I would say we lost the game soley because of Aaron Rodgers.


ya I know we've done this before.. I guess I wasnt tryin to rip Arod so much as defend Brett... I was more so talking about the situation of how we are going to regret it in weeks to come when they are going to the playoffs and we arent

I've said before and I'll say it again, I think Arod is very talented... I just think he lacks the "it" factor that most of the good QBs have that play this game for awhile..

It wasn't too long ago Brett was getting booed loudly in New York. Both teams success and failures aren't a result of QB play imo. The Jets have an above average defense, whereas our front 7 is killing us. The Jets can run the ball and protect Brett with an above average offensive line, whereas ours is struggling mightily. That's what I mean by apples and oranges. Different teams, and different scenarios. If you took Arod and Favre and made them switch teams, I really think Brett would stuggle for us and Arod would succeed in New York. A great offensive line, and a great running game can make virtually any QB look good. (see Kerry Collins).

[Gunakor]

so his 6 td game doesnt count against the Cardinals?
Game winning pass to coles against KC in the last minute?
An long minute drive against Buffalo to seal the game with a FG?


those are just 3 I can think of.. my beef with Rodgers is/was/most likely always will be, is that he has had the ball in his hands several times now to make a drive to win/tie a game... and he hasnt done it... so far he's no winner to me


6 TD's against the Cardinals... <300 yards passing. Give Rodgers the ball on the opponents side of the field and call pass plays all day long, odds are he'd have 6 TD's as well. Besides, it's the freaking Cardinals.

Game winning pass to Coles... Game should have been put away long before that, but Favre's 3 INT's made it a game. Defense won that game by not allowing it to get out of hand. If you throw 3 INT's in a game, you are SUPPOSED to lose.

And your point about Rodgers... Let me put it this way, hopefully you'll understand. I don't want to put the game on the QB's shoulders to win. I would rather put the game on the defense to win. That is what has been happening in New York. That's what should be happening here in Green Bay. Games are not always won on offense, Paco. Those games you mentioned - more credit can and should be given to the Jets defensive performance than Favre's flawless (or not) QB performance. Open your eyes and watch the rest of the game for a change. Geez...

[Pacopete4]

so his 6 td game doesnt count against the Cardinals?
Game winning pass to coles against KC in the last minute?
An long minute drive against Buffalo to seal the game with a FG?


those are just 3 I can think of.. my beef with Rodgers is/was/most likely always will be, is that he has had the ball in his hands several times now to make a drive to win/tie a game... and he hasnt done it... so far he's no winner to me


6 TD's against the Cardinals... <300 yards passing. Give Rodgers the ball on the opponents side of the field and call pass plays all day long, odds are he'd have 6 TD's as well. Besides, it's the freaking Cardinals.

Game winning pass to Coles... Game should have been put away long before that, but Favre's 3 INT's made it a game. Defense won that game by not allowing it to get out of hand. If you throw 3 INT's in a game, you are SUPPOSED to lose.

And your point about Rodgers... Let me put it this way, hopefully you'll understand. I don't want to put the game on the QB's shoulders to win. I would rather put the game on the defense to win. That is what has been happening in New York. That's what should be happening here in Green Bay. Games are not always won on offense, Paco. Those games you mentioned - more credit can and should be given to the Jets defensive performance than Favre's flawless (or not) QB performance. Open your eyes and watch the rest of the game for a change. Geez...


facts are facts... Rodgers will never be great coming up short with the ball in his hands and the game on the line


guys like Favre, Brady, Montana, Elway, Marino didnt get their fuckin status by "almost" winning games.. or depending on their defense to bail them out... Rodgers has had fuckin games gift wrapped to him if he'd just take the reigns and play ball... how many teams have as many defense or special teams TD's?.... NONE.... hes come up short and most likely will continue to do so..

[Gunakor]

so his 6 td game doesnt count against the Cardinals?
Game winning pass to coles against KC in the last minute?
An long minute drive against Buffalo to seal the game with a FG?


those are just 3 I can think of.. my beef with Rodgers is/was/most likely always will be, is that he has had the ball in his hands several times now to make a drive to win/tie a game... and he hasnt done it... so far he's no winner to me


6 TD's against the Cardinals... <300 yards passing. Give Rodgers the ball on the opponents side of the field and call pass plays all day long, odds are he'd have 6 TD's as well. Besides, it's the freaking Cardinals.

Game winning pass to Coles... Game should have been put away long before that, but Favre's 3 INT's made it a game. Defense won that game by not allowing it to get out of hand. If you throw 3 INT's in a game, you are SUPPOSED to lose.

And your point about Rodgers... Let me put it this way, hopefully you'll understand. I don't want to put the game on the QB's shoulders to win. I would rather put the game on the defense to win. That is what has been happening in New York. That's what should be happening here in Green Bay. Games are not always won on offense, Paco. Those games you mentioned - more credit can and should be given to the Jets defensive performance than Favre's flawless (or not) QB performance. Open your eyes and watch the rest of the game for a change. Geez...


facts are facts... Rodgers will never be great coming up short with the ball in his hands and the game on the line


guys like Favre, Brady, Montana, Elway, Marino didnt get their fuckin status by "almost" winning games.. or depending on their defense to bail them out... Rodgers has had fuckin games gift wrapped to him if he'd just take the reigns and play ball... how many teams have as many defense or special teams TD's?.... NONE.... hes come up short and most likely will continue to do so..

Name one team in the NFL with a worse OL than we have right now, and maybe I'll buy your arguement. Until then you are just another young know-it-all who doesn't know a goddamn thing. The QB can't do his job if he's not being protected. The WR can't catch the ball if the QB doesn't have time to throw it to him. The WR can't score a TD if he doesn't have the ball. See where I'm going with this?

[Pacopete4]

so his 6 td game doesnt count against the Cardinals?
Game winning pass to coles against KC in the last minute?
An long minute drive against Buffalo to seal the game with a FG?


those are just 3 I can think of.. my beef with Rodgers is/was/most likely always will be, is that he has had the ball in his hands several times now to make a drive to win/tie a game... and he hasnt done it... so far he's no winner to me


6 TD's against the Cardinals... <300 yards passing. Give Rodgers the ball on the opponents side of the field and call pass plays all day long, odds are he'd have 6 TD's as well. Besides, it's the freaking Cardinals.

Game winning pass to Coles... Game should have been put away long before that, but Favre's 3 INT's made it a game. Defense won that game by not allowing it to get out of hand. If you throw 3 INT's in a game, you are SUPPOSED to lose.

And your point about Rodgers... Let me put it this way, hopefully you'll understand. I don't want to put the game on the QB's shoulders to win. I would rather put the game on the defense to win. That is what has been happening in New York. That's what should be happening here in Green Bay. Games are not always won on offense, Paco. Those games you mentioned - more credit can and should be given to the Jets defensive performance than Favre's flawless (or not) QB performance. Open your eyes and watch the rest of the game for a change. Geez...


facts are facts... Rodgers will never be great coming up short with the ball in his hands and the game on the line


guys like Favre, Brady, Montana, Elway, Marino didnt get their fuckin status by "almost" winning games.. or depending on their defense to bail them out... Rodgers has had fuckin games gift wrapped to him if he'd just take the reigns and play ball... how many teams have as many defense or special teams TD's?.... NONE.... hes come up short and most likely will continue to do so..

Name one team in the NFL with a worse OL than we have right now, and maybe I'll buy your arguement. Until then you are just another young know-it-all who doesn't know a goddamn thing. The QB can't do his job if he's not being protected. The WR can't catch the ball if the QB doesn't have time to throw it to him. The WR can't score a TD if he doesn't have the ball. See where I'm going with this?


then throw the ball quicker? dont roll to the right everytime someone comes within 10 yrds... step up in the pocket here and there.. hell ive seen it work a few times.. ITS NOT JUST THE OLINE.. ya they're not playing well.. but its just like Partial is sayin.. its tough to block in the NFL, its even tougher when u dont know what the fuck ur QB is doing back there..

rookie mistakes, great... but I dont see em outta Flacco or Ryan.. both who would die to have a WR core like GB does.. its pathetic dude...

[Gunakor]

Favre would just throw the ball quicker, which contributed to the NFL record interception total he currently holds and may never relinquish. You may not have a problem with that, but NFL teams do. You can't throw the ball if your guy is well covered and not risk turning it over. I'd rather take the sack than throw an INT, and that goes for any circumstance you could throw out there. The quick throws you see from Rodgers are designed quick slants and such, but you can't run those plays over and over or the defender will jump the pass and take it back for 6 the other way. Sometimes you HAVE to go downfield, and that requires protection. Protection he has not gotten the last few weeks.

I'm done arguing this with you. If there's anything I've learned in my lifetime it's that you can't fix stupid. You really don't know what you are talking about, and you lost all credibility a few days ago when you said you admired Favre's ability to not give a damn that the guy he was throwing to was triple covered. You lost even more when you said you'd rather have a guy who takes foolish risks than a game manager that will not cost you the game. You honestly believe that the QB is charged with winning the game, regardless what anybody else on the team does. If you refuse to believe that it takes everybody to win in this league, then there's nothing left to argue here. Have a great afternoon.

[Pacopete4]

Favre would just throw the ball quicker, which contributed to the NFL record interception total he currently holds and may never relinquish. You may not have a problem with that, but NFL teams do. You can't throw the ball if your guy is well covered and not risk turning it over. I'd rather take the sack than throw an INT, and that goes for any circumstance you could throw out there. The quick throws you see from Rodgers are designed quick slants and such, but you can't run those plays over and over or the defender will jump the pass and take it back for 6 the other way. Sometimes you HAVE to go downfield, and that requires protection. Protection he has not gotten the last few weeks.

I'm done arguing this with you. If there's anything I've learned in my lifetime it's that you can't fix stupid. You really don't know what you are talking about, and you lost all credibility a few days ago when you said you admired Favre's ability to not give a damn that the guy he was throwing to was triple covered. You lost even more when you said you'd rather have a guy who takes foolish risks than a game manager that will not cost you the game. You honestly believe that the QB is charged with winning the game, regardless what anybody else on the team does. If you refuse to believe that it takes everybody to win in this league, then there's nothing left to argue here. Have a great afternoon.


stupid people don't listen.. you don't listen at all... I never once, NOT ONCE, said Favre won any game all on his own, nor so I like that he throws it in triple coverage... nor a lot of things u try to feed down my throat in this convo...

but ur are right.. I'd take a QB like Favre ANY DAY than a QB like Rodgers... I will take a winner, he just wins... thats what he does... theres a reason guys like him, manning, brady ect. dont have losing seasons... Favre had ONE... ONE DAMN YEAR! ha.. the proof is in the pudding... hes good, no wait.. hes fuckin great and u just cant seem to wrap ur little mind around that..

oh and I think every franchise in this league wouldn't have a problem with a Brett Favre on their team...

[Cheesehead Craig]

what I saw was a lack of gang tackling.

Peterson was able to cut back, or somehow make the primary tackler miss, and the rest of the Packers looked like they were just standing around, assuming the player or two closest to Peterson would make the tackle. They weren't hustling to fence-in Peterson.
Completely. It seemed in the second half that they were waiting for AD to make a move and then be there when he did. The problem with that was that they were letting him dictate what was going on and his explosion and power was too much for them to handle with being tentative like this. They got too burned by his cutbacks in the first half.

[rbaloha1]

Packer Nation. Yes we played poorly and were dominated at the line of scrimmage.

But at the end of the day if the kicker makes the kick we win and fans do not dwell on the negatives.

This is still a good all around team. The defense and special teams almost won the game despite the inadequate offense.

We should have won the Titans game. Young team needs to learn to finish games.

We are still in the playoff hunt.

[Noodle]

Yes, the Pack was only a kick away, but it would have been wrong to think all is right because we got a W instead of an L.

And besides, I'm not going to crack on Mason for missing a friggin 52 yard FG. That's a long-ass kick, even in a dome. As someone else observed, four yards closer, and that ball goes through. It was inexcusable, and emblamatic, that our offense couldn't get him a little closer when it started the drive at their own 40 with two minutes left.

[Harlan Huckleby]

As someone else observed, four yards closer, and that ball goes through. It was inexcusable, and emblamatic, that our offense couldn't get him a little closer when it started the drive at their own 40 with two minutes left.

Hard to get extra yardage when you run two balls into the heart of the Vikings defense.

I understand the argument for the convervative calls. Don't agree.

[Gunakor]

I never once, NOT ONCE, said Favre won any game all on his own, nor so I like that he throws it in triple coverage... nor a lot of things u try to feed down my throat in this convo...


From the thread "Does Aaron Rodgers Have The Armstrength"



he also was a master of not giving a shit if 3 guys were there and throwing it anyways haha

Did I misread this? It sounds like you recognize the problem but don't care. Or maybe you don't think it's a problem, I don't know. But you've recognized something I feel is THE problem with Favre right now, and has been for nearly 2 decades. There is nothing "haha" about this at all IMO.

And I guess I don't mean to suggest that you said Favre has won anything all on his own, rather just debating your suggestion that Rodgers isn't a winner simply because he hasn't won a game on his own yet either. You make it sound like if Rodgers gets the ball and begins to engineer a game winning drive late in the 4th quarter, if it doesn't succeed it's all the his fault. If the OL can't block, or if the RB can't break the LOS, or if the WR's are dropping passes, or if the HC calls dumbshit plays, doesn't matter. It's still Rodgers' fault for not getting the job done. What I'm saying is that's not always the case. So you can't just put the game on the QB's shoulders. All 11 players on offense have to do their job effectively to score that winning TD or FG. If one of them fails, the other 10 won't be as efficient. That includes the QB, but also includes his line and his recievers.

And if those 11 guys had been efficient up to that point, there'd be no need for a 4th quarter comeback drive in the first place. It would be the victory formation to run out the clock instead, which I'd much rather see than the big 5 with under 2 minutes to go. I guess I'm just more concerned with the first 58 minutes of a game than I am with the last 2.

[DonHutson]

I wouldn't mind seeing Chillar move to the outside an see Hawk play the middle if Barnett is out for any serious length of time.

Nice call. That sounds like one of the options under discussion.