Nice discussion of the Pack On Fox Sports Round Table

[Tony Oday]

Czar: "One thing about Minnesota and Tampa Bay is that both of these teams feed off their defenses and running games. Who has the advantage?"

HL: "The first thing I want to say is that Minnesota shocked me with how well they played on defense against the Packers last week. And the next thing is that Adrian Peterson is the first running back to remind me of Bo Jackson. I don't think he's as fast as Bo, but I would run five check-down passes to him a game. Just dump it off to him. He's pretty amazing."

TB: "I still remember the stiff arm he showed us in a preseason game against the Jets his rookie year."


The Packers defensive backs will hit you anywhere, no matter what the refs say. (Otto Greule Jr. / Getty Images)

HL: "Minnesota's offensive line isn't bad, but I would think that Gus Frerotte will struggle against the Bucs. Tampa Bay's defense is so quick and complex. Gus made some mistakes against Green Bay's secondary. And that secondary is the most aggressive unit I have seen in the league this season."

MS: "I agree with Howie. The Packers just simply disregard that five-yard rule and hit you anywhere."

JJ: "That's why they are the highest penalized secondary in the league. But I would take that and live with it. I would much rather have them getting a few penalties than allowing quarterbacks to complete passes all day long in front of them."

Czar: "They probably figure the officials won't keep calling the penalties."

JJ: "You may be right. Down at Miami, we used press coverage all the time and got a bunch of penalties. And they did quit calling penalties after a while."

HL: "The Packers remind me of my old Raider cornerbacks. Not too many corners can play like that and be as aggressive as they are. Plus, Nick Collins is playing a great safety for the Packers. Now, the Vikings will have to be as disruptive this week against Jeff Garcia as they were against Aaron Rodgers."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Czar: "Speaking of the Packers, does anyone believe they wish they still had Brett Favre?"

MS: "No. If they had Favre right now, Green Bay's record would be worse. He's too erratic."

JJ: "He does make some big plays."

MS: "But he also gives up too many big plays."

Czar: "What do you think the fans think?"

JJ: "The fans think they know, but they don't know."

Czar: "OK. But last year the Packers were 13-3 and now they are 4-5. Why?"

HL: "Their inability to stop the run and also their lack of commitment to their own running game. Yes, Ryan Grant was injured earlier in the year, but he did gain 4.7 yards a carry against Minnesota and they got away from it. I don't know why they didn't stick with it. Last year, part of Brett's success was off of their running game. Now, the onus is on Rodgers and he was under siege. He got mauled by the Vikings."

CM: "People talk about all the superstars hurt in the league this season, but the Packers were relatively healthy all of last season. That hasn't been true this season."

HL: "The loss of Cullen Jenkins has really hurt their defensive line and now they are minus middle linebacker Nick Barnett. Teams are getting to the second level against them."

MS: "Last week, as soon as Barnett got hurt, the Vikings got Chester Taylor isolated on his replacement and he took it to the house. And like everyone was saying earlier about the Cowboys, I don't think Green Bay's protection has been as great this year."

HL: "Part of that is their interior three, plus Chad Clifton did not play well against Jared Allen. Plus, I am still trying to figure out that illegal forward pass penalty called against Rodgers that went for a safety."

JJ: "I think the officials allowed judgment to affect their decision and judgment is not supposed to enter into it. You are not supposed to officiate intent."

HL: "That one play changed that game and maybe the entire division race. The explanation they gave Mike McCarthy was that it was an illegal forward pass because it was an unorthodox throwing motion. It was just bizarre."

JJ: "It was a horrible call."

HL: "It's like the first time we saw the tuck rule called in that Raiders-Patriots playoff game. How do they come up with this stuff?"

Czar: "But can one bad call decide a game?"

HL: "Well, the Packers did have every opportunity to win that game and couldn't do it. It was a mirror image game of the Tennessee loss they had."

[MOBB DEEP]

thanks for posting

[PlantPage55]

It sounds like THESE analysts actually WATCH the games - instead of reading a box score like many of the more clueless sportswriters out there.

[PackerTimer]

No kidding Plant. Some solid analysis by those guys. Thanks for posting.

[dissident94]

i don't buy the argument about the run game last year. We basically won our first 5-6 wins with no run game at all.

[Gunakor]

i don't buy the argument about the run game last year. We basically won our first 5-6 wins with no run game at all.

Do you think the Packers win the last 7 without a run game? Remember, 3 of those first 5 or 6 wins were won on defense and special teams, not on offense. They make a legitimate point.

[cpk1994]

MS: "No. If they had Favre right now, Green Bay's record would be worse. He's too erratic."

Wow. Just wow. Jeez, Michael, Favre gives you the sack record on a silver platter and this is how you repay him? :lol:

[LL2]

Can Barnett and Jenkins come back during the playoffs if the Pack make the playoffs, or are they done until next season? Not exactly sure how IR totally works.

[Fritz]

I do think people forget how awful the Packers' run game was for the first seven games last year. And Favre was still being Favre - the good and bad - it was the special teams and defense that kept this team in it for the first half of the season.

[Gunakor]

Can Barnett and Jenkins come back during the playoffs if the Pack make the playoffs, or are they done until next season? Not exactly sure how IR totally works.

No. They are out for the season, which includes the playoffs. They are not eligible to return until next year.

[MJZiggy]

I do think people forget how awful the Packers' run game was for the first seven games last year. And Favre was still being Favre - the good and bad - it was the special teams and defense that kept this team in it for the first half of the season.

Good point.

[MOBB DEEP]

MS: "No. If they had Favre right now, Green Bay's record would be worse. He's too erratic."

Wow. Just wow. Jeez, Michael, Favre gives you the sack record on a silver platter and this is how you repay him? :lol:

yeah, he sounded upset too

[Tony Oday]

MS: "No. If they had Favre right now, Green Bay's record would be worse. He's too erratic."

Wow. Just wow. Jeez, Michael, Favre gives you the sack record on a silver platter and this is how you repay him? :lol:

yeah, he sounded upset too

Or he is doing his job speaking the truth...

[DannoMac21]

MS: "No. If they had Favre right now, Green Bay's record would be worse. He's too erratic."

Wow. Just wow. Jeez, Michael, Favre gives you the sack record on a silver platter and this is how you repay him? :lol:

yeah, he sounded upset too

Or he is doing his job speaking the truth...

I think MOBB's endless hardon just went down when he read that there IS an analyst out there that knows the truth!

[MOBB DEEP]

bradshaw kept it real tho sayn tt and mm should look in the mirror (lettn favre go) for the answer as to why team is struggln

he said aaronn over brett favre? PUHLEEZ.....

if i had to chose, i'd go to TB over gay ms for my qb info....

im back erect

[bobblehead]

I do think people forget how awful the Packers' run game was for the first seven games last year. And Favre was still being Favre - the good and bad - it was the special teams and defense that kept this team in it for the first half of the season.

Good point.

I actually am going to compliment favre and disagree with you guys. In previous years favre would have tossed about 3 picks each agains philly and san diego. Last year he DID listen to mccarthy and lay low in those games not trying to do too much. The result was other players stepped up and won it since the "duck and chuck" BF didn't lose it. I honestly thought BF played his BEST EVER season as a pro last year....then he melted down in the bitter cold and offseason.

Without him starting the season the way he did the team might have never gained the confidence it did....instead of 13-3 we might have been 8-8.

[DannoMac21]

bradshaw kept it real tho sayn tt and mm should look in the mirror (lettn favre go) for the answer as to why team is struggln

he said aaronn over brett favre? PUHLEEZ.....

if i had to chose, i'd go to TB over gay ms for my qb info....

im back erect

Riiiight...well since your back erect, maybe you can join TB in a Favre circ jerk? Not like TB is or has been Favre biased since...forever or anything.

[Fred's Slacks]

MS: "No. If they had Favre right now, Green Bay's record would be worse. He's too erratic."

Marshal Faulk had a very similar comment this morning on the NFLN pregame show. He said Green Bay would still be 4-5 with Favre.

[DannoMac21]

MS: "No. If they had Favre right now, Green Bay's record would be worse. He's too erratic."

Marshal Faulk had a very similar comment this morning on the NFLN pregame show. He said Green Bay would still be 4-5 with Favre.

Haha, absolutely LOVE your avatar.

"You, me, bar, beers, buzzed...wings, shots, drunk...waitresses hot"

[Fred's Slacks]

MS: "No. If they had Favre right now, Green Bay's record would be worse. He's too erratic."

Marshal Faulk had a very similar comment this morning on the NFLN pregame show. He said Green Bay would still be 4-5 with Favre.

Haha, absolutely LOVE your avatar.

"You, me, bar, beers, buzzed...wings, shots, drunk...waitresses hot"

Cornell, Hofstra, Slaughter!

[Cheesehead Craig]

Terry Bradshaw's rant was so stupid it was funny. He actually said we have an elite OL. Not good, not great, elite. That comment is so off base it's laughable. He laid every loss on Rodgers in his commentary and not once did he mention how crappy our run defense has been.

He showed once again how stupid he can be. He did no actual analysis of the Packers team at all. He had an agenda which is defending his favorite QB of all time in Brett Favre and creating a commentary using blatently false info on how him being gone is the sole reason we are where we are.

Just a pathetic commentary from him.

[MJZiggy]

C'mon, you know Bradshaw's not the brightest bulb in the chandelier...

And he freely admits it too.

[Fred's Slacks]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

[]{ilr]3]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

My Gawd what a CHUMP! :roll:

[DannoMac21]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

We have a good QB? Holy shit, I had no idea. All these Favre dicklovers around here make me think he's still a Packer. Damn.

[steve823]

Yea honesltly whats up with all these reporters saying our o-line is great? They are inconsistent and I would say they are mediocre ..maybe good at best.

[Partial]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

We have a good QB? Holy shit, I had no idea. All these Favre dicklovers around here make me think he's still a Packer. Damn.

We don't have a good QB. Unless you define good as a solid arena league/college starter. Our lower end of average QB has the potential to be good, but is nowhere near there yet.

[arcilite]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

We have a good QB? Holy shit, I had no idea. All these Favre dicklovers around here make me think he's still a Packer. Damn.

We don't have a good QB. Unless you define good as a solid arena league/college starter. Our lower end of average QB has the potential to be good, but is nowhere near there yet.


This guy knows what he is talking about

he watches GAME FILM!!!!


/sarcasm

[Partial]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

We have a good QB? Holy shit, I had no idea. All these Favre dicklovers around here make me think he's still a Packer. Damn.

We don't have a good QB. Unless you define good as a solid arena league/college starter. Our lower end of average QB has the potential to be good, but is nowhere near there yet.


This guy knows what he is talking about

he watches GAME FILM!!!!


/sarcasm

Alright, guy.

Instead of trolling why don't you go do a statistical analysis, or better yet, read the one I provided, and you'll see the overwhelming evidence of a huge decrease in play since Detroit.

[cpk1994]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

We have a good QB? Holy shit, I had no idea. All these Favre dicklovers around here make me think he's still a Packer. Damn.

We don't have a good QB. Unless you define good as a solid arena league/college starter. Our lower end of average QB has the potential to be good, but is nowhere near there yet.Geez, sign this guy up to be an NFL coach. He is Mr. Know-it-All after all. :roll:

[mission]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

We have a good QB? Holy shit, I had no idea. All these Favre dicklovers around here make me think he's still a Packer. Damn.

We don't have a good QB. Unless you define good as a solid arena league/college starter. Our lower end of average QB has the potential to be good, but is nowhere near there yet.Geez, sign this guy up to be an NFL coach. He is Mr. Know-it-All after all. :roll:

Everyone knows how many CVS employees end up making it to the league.

He tried to call me out on my real football experience once and when I laid it out -- asking for his -- he never came back to the thread.

[cpk1994]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

We have a good QB? Holy shit, I had no idea. All these Favre dicklovers around here make me think he's still a Packer. Damn.

We don't have a good QB. Unless you define good as a solid arena league/college starter. Our lower end of average QB has the potential to be good, but is nowhere near there yet.Geez, sign this guy up to be an NFL coach. He is Mr. Know-it-All after all. :roll:

Everyone knows how many CVS employees end up making it to the league.

He tried to call me out on my real football experience once and when I laid it out -- asking for his -- he never came back to the thread.This would explain where he got the drugs he is hallucinating off of.

[Partial]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

We have a good QB? Holy shit, I had no idea. All these Favre dicklovers around here make me think he's still a Packer. Damn.

We don't have a good QB. Unless you define good as a solid arena league/college starter. Our lower end of average QB has the potential to be good, but is nowhere near there yet.Geez, sign this guy up to be an NFL coach. He is Mr. Know-it-All after all. :roll:

Look at the offensive statistics guy. I laid out a very thorough, detailed post containing all of the offensive points this year. Our offense is struggling big time. But I guess since you "OWN THIS BOARD" as you said in another post, you're probably too good or too knowledgable to look at the stats!

Stop trolling. I really wish Mad would just ban you. You haven't contributed anything knowledgeable or interesting in months, just sarcastic, cocky ass remarks.

[cpk1994]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

We have a good QB? Holy shit, I had no idea. All these Favre dicklovers around here make me think he's still a Packer. Damn.

We don't have a good QB. Unless you define good as a solid arena league/college starter. Our lower end of average QB has the potential to be good, but is nowhere near there yet.Geez, sign this guy up to be an NFL coach. He is Mr. Know-it-All after all. :roll:

Look at the offensive statistics guy. I laid out a very thorough, detailed post containing all of the offensive points this year. Our offense is struggling big time. But I guess since you "OWN THIS BOARD" as you said in another post, you're probably too good or too knowledgable to look at the stats!

Stop trolling. I really wish Mad would just ban you. You haven't contributed anything knowledgeable or interesting in months, just sarcastic, cocky ass remarks.First of all, you need to read my actual post instead of reading Snake's edit of my post in his response. Have fun taking your foot out of your mouth on that one. SDecondly, I will take the word of most of the people in the know in the NFL who know better than to equate Rodgers with Arena football.

[cpk1994]

And here was what I really posted, without Snake's edit from Pacer 4 of that thread:


Always the classy one. I don't take orders from a pathetic little punk like you. I sure as hell don't give a fuck that you are a mod on other boards. I will, and have, taken in part in good debate on this forum, but when I see someone trolling, I will call tham out on it. Especially those who freely admit they are a troll(Pacopete). As for you, I find it hypocritcal that you make this poost as you are just as guilty of trolling and shit stirring as anybody else. You need to practice what you preach little boy. That said, you aren't worth my time anymore. End Post.

Next time read my posts when I post them insted of reading them instead of Snake's edited BS. Again, have fun eating your foot, idiot.

[Partial]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

We have a good QB? Holy shit, I had no idea. All these Favre dicklovers around here make me think he's still a Packer. Damn.

We don't have a good QB. Unless you define good as a solid arena league/college starter. Our lower end of average QB has the potential to be good, but is nowhere near there yet.Geez, sign this guy up to be an NFL coach. He is Mr. Know-it-All after all. :roll:

Look at the offensive statistics guy. I laid out a very thorough, detailed post containing all of the offensive points this year. Our offense is struggling big time. But I guess since you "OWN THIS BOARD" as you said in another post, you're probably too good or too knowledgable to look at the stats!

Stop trolling. I really wish Mad would just ban you. You haven't contributed anything knowledgeable or interesting in months, just sarcastic, cocky ass remarks.First of all, you need to read my actual post instead of reading Snake's edit of my post in his response. Have fun taking your foot out of your mouth on that one. SDecondly, I will take the word of most of the people in the know in the NFL who know better than to equate Rodgers with Arena football.


Obviously a joke dumbass. The point is A-Rod has been underwhelming since game film has become available for other teams. Just like the Perfect Pats were routinely putting up fat numbers at the start of last season, teams like the Eagles with a back-up QB came very close to beating them as they GAMEPLANNED very well for them.

What I am proposing is going on is NOT uncommon at all. It's something called the rookie wall. Heard of it? Clearly not or you'd likely agree with it. There is now film out their on Rodgers, and he still isn't comfortable enough to adjust his game and clean up his mistakes. Teams are relentlessly sending the hounds because they see how skittish he is. Do you agree that he is very skittish in the pocket at least?

MM in recent weeks has shown a penchant for ignoring the running game, even when in its limited action it is proving effective ( 4-5 yards per carry ), and this has led to very vanilla plain calling with limited options.

Nutz and I have pointed out numerous times that Aaron does not use the middle of the field. Can you dispute this? It would be very difficult to imo. Teams are starting to recognize this through the available film of his tendencies and GAMEPLAN accordingly. This is one of the staples of the west coast offense, and something we did very effectively last year that we are all but ignoring this year.

To this point, Rodgers hasn't made a lot of mistakes outside of a few poor games that I have pointed out. Part of the reason is because he isn't taking any chances with the ball, and that has the obvious goods and bads. One thing is for sure is the offensive production has decreased in recent weeks, and from week 3 up until this week we have averaged ~15.5 points per game offensively, which is awful. Even the 2000 Ravens asked their offense to put up 17 points a game to give them a chance to win. He has played a few solid games and made some plays, but the facts is he has been very inconsistent. 4 out of the past 8 games have been truly awful from a quarterbacking standpoint. That is very Rex Grossman 2005, when he led the league in games with a QB rating over 100, but had as many awful as great games.

Shut the fuck up with the trolling. You don't contribute anything positive around here. While some people may have differing opinions, at least they post something of value. That's not something I have seen from you since June.

[GrnBay007]

See, it really makes no difference if the Packers win or struggle and lose...some of you will argue with each other and call names no matter what. Do you guys really think people want to see this week after week? ....the arguing, not decent discussion.

[Partial]

See, it really makes no difference if the Packers win or struggle and lose...some of you will argue with each other and call names no matter what. Do you guys really think people want to see this week after week? ....the arguing, not decent discussion.

Agreed. Take out the ban stick and give the ol' heave-ho to those who continue to troll and provide any positive contributions.

[arcilite]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

We have a good QB? Holy shit, I had no idea. All these Favre dicklovers around here make me think he's still a Packer. Damn.

We don't have a good QB. Unless you define good as a solid arena league/college starter. Our lower end of average QB has the potential to be good, but is nowhere near there yet.


This guy knows what he is talking about

he watches GAME FILM!!!!


/sarcasm

Alright, guy.

Instead of trolling why don't you go do a statistical analysis, or better yet, read the one I provided, and you'll see the overwhelming evidence of a huge decrease in play since Detroit.

I'm not your guy, Buddy!

[cpk1994]

Just last week Bradshaw said we'd win the division because we have the best QB.

We have a good QB? Holy shit, I had no idea. All these Favre dicklovers around here make me think he's still a Packer. Damn.

We don't have a good QB. Unless you define good as a solid arena league/college starter. Our lower end of average QB has the potential to be good, but is nowhere near there yet.Geez, sign this guy up to be an NFL coach. He is Mr. Know-it-All after all. :roll:

Look at the offensive statistics guy. I laid out a very thorough, detailed post containing all of the offensive points this year. Our offense is struggling big time. But I guess since you "OWN THIS BOARD" as you said in another post, you're probably too good or too knowledgable to look at the stats!

Stop trolling. I really wish Mad would just ban you. You haven't contributed anything knowledgeable or interesting in months, just sarcastic, cocky ass remarks.First of all, you need to read my actual post instead of reading Snake's edit of my post in his response. Have fun taking your foot out of your mouth on that one. SDecondly, I will take the word of most of the people in the know in the NFL who know better than to equate Rodgers with Arena football.


Obviously a joke dumbass. The point is A-Rod has been underwhelming since game film has become available for other teams. Just like the Perfect Pats were routinely putting up fat numbers at the start of last season, teams like the Eagles with a back-up QB came very close to beating them as they GAMEPLANNED very well for them.

What I am proposing is going on is NOT uncommon at all. It's something called the rookie wall. Heard of it? Clearly not or you'd likely agree with it. There is now film out their on Rodgers, and he still isn't comfortable enough to adjust his game and clean up his mistakes. Teams are relentlessly sending the hounds because they see how skittish he is. Do you agree that he is very skittish in the pocket at least?

MM in recent weeks has shown a penchant for ignoring the running game, even when in its limited action it is proving effective ( 4-5 yards per carry ), and this has led to very vanilla plain calling with limited options.

Nutz and I have pointed out numerous times that Aaron does not use the middle of the field. Can you dispute this? It would be very difficult to imo. Teams are starting to recognize this through the available film of his tendencies and GAMEPLAN accordingly. This is one of the staples of the west coast offense, and something we did very effectively last year that we are all but ignoring this year.

To this point, Rodgers hasn't made a lot of mistakes outside of a few poor games that I have pointed out. Part of the reason is because he isn't taking any chances with the ball, and that has the obvious goods and bads. One thing is for sure is the offensive production has decreased in recent weeks, and from week 3 up until this week we have averaged ~15.5 points per game offensively, which is awful. Even the 2000 Ravens asked their offense to put up 17 points a game to give them a chance to win. He has played a few solid games and made some plays, but the facts is he has been very inconsistent. 4 out of the past 8 games have been truly awful from a quarterbacking standpoint. That is very Rex Grossman 2005, when he led the league in games with a QB rating over 100, but had as many awful as great games.

Shut the fuck up with the trolling. You don't contribute anything positive around here. While some people may have differing opinions, at least they post something of value. That's not something I have seen from you since June.First of all, I don't take Snake's editing of my posts to be a joke. That is low class BS.
Secondly you equated ARod is only deemed good if he was an arena QB. That is BS and what I take issue with. He has been good for the most part. Also, of those 4 games only one would I put on ARod becuase the other 3 the OL was complete horsecrap. Again, I take the word of those like Jimmy Johnson who have actually been down the pike a time or two in the NFL and have a good idea wether a QB is good or bad, over idiots on a message board like you and me.