Studs and Duds - Week 11

[MJZiggy]

By E. Homer

READ IT HERE, FOLKS!!!! (http://www.packerrats.com)

[Partial]

Pretty fair assessment.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Who is E. Homer?

Rodgers = STUD

Like any QB will make every throw. Good God. You want to talk about what ifs? What if Lee had caught that perfect throw for a TD? Then, you are looking at 24 for 30 for 240 yards and 3 TDs. People cream themselves when other QBs play that well. Different standard for this QB.

[ThunderDan]

Who is E. Homer?

Rodgers = STUD

Like any QB will make every throw. Good God. You want to talk about what ifs? What if Lee had caught that perfect throw for a TD? Then, you are looking at 24 for 30 for 240 yards and 3 TDs. People cream themselves when other QBs play that well. Different standard for this QB.

Harvey-

It's me.

Rodgers does not go on the stud list. He missed two sure touchdowns. In a close game that's the difference between winning and losing. You can't miss a guy wide open running down the middle because you are afraid of the blitz. He's going to get blitzed his whole career. Next year I think he will be comfortable enough with the blitz pick ups to make the throw he should have.

I didn't add or subtract from Rodgers performance for Lee's drop.

[HarveyWallbangers]

So, he has to be perfect to get on the stud list?

[boiga]

I think we're a little spoiled if we want more than Rodgers gave us today. Considering what happened last week, I'm not going to complain at all if Rodgers decides to check down to the TE instead of going deep when facing a blitz. Sure he screwed up on the Urlacher throw, but his accuracy and efficiency were driving the Chicago D into fits. I'll take it.

That said, good write up Dan. Got any more insights from the attending fan perspective?

[Noodle]

I'm not going to complain too much about Arod not making the studs list.

Something odd, though, about the pick. I didn't get all that pissed. He moved well in the pocket to get free, stepped up, and delivered the ball to the right guy. He had a physical breakdown with the throw, no question, but I liked his awareness and decisionmaking.

I can live with some physical mistakes from a first-year starter. I'm guessing he won't underthrow that one again.

And maybe he'll be incentivized to try harder next week so that he breaks back in to the studs category. You know from the play calling that those dudes all read packerrats.

[The Gunshooter]

Who is E. Homer?

Rodgers = STUD

Like any QB will make every throw. Good God. You want to talk about what ifs? What if Lee had caught that perfect throw for a TD? Then, you are looking at 24 for 30 for 240 yards and 3 TDs. People cream themselves when other QBs play that well. Different standard for this QB.

Harvey-

It's me.

Rodgers does not go on the stud list. He missed two sure touchdowns. In a close game that's the difference between winning and losing. You can't miss a guy wide open running down the middle because you are afraid of the blitz. He's going to get blitzed his whole career. Next year I think he will be comfortable enough with the blitz pick ups to make the throw he should have.

I didn't add or subtract from Rodgers performance for Lee's drop.

That's right, when the dumb bastard learns to scramble left as much as he scrambles right and quits trying to hit guys over the shoulder on a line he will be a stud. He had all day back there to hit wide open receivers. I don't even remember him getting touched today.

[The Gunshooter]

Ryan Grant ran so hard and the o-line keep Chicago out of the backfield. I wish he would deliver some punishment to the safety though instead of taking it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ryan Grant ran so hard and the o-line keep Chicago out of the backfield. I wish he would deliver some punishment to the safety though instead of taking it.

I think he took and gave some punishment.
:D

[oregonpackfan]

I think we're a little spoiled if we want more than Rodgers gave us today. Considering what happened last week, I'm not going to complain at all if Rodgers decides to check down to the TE instead of going deep when facing a blitz. Sure he screwed up on the Urlacher throw, but his accuracy and efficiency were driving the Chicago D into fits. I'll take it.



Are so many Packer fans still in the "Favre Withdrawal Mode" that they have to complain about any shortcoming Rodgers might have?!

Geez, give the first-year starting, 24 year old guy some credit! Yes, he made some mistakes but his positives FAR overweighed his mistakes.

Among Rodgers' strengths all season has been his decision-making. He rarely makes the "bone-headed" plays we were frequently used to seeing Favre make as a veteran QB.

They guy belongs on the Studs list, IMO.

[channtheman]

So, he has to be perfect to get on the stud list?

Sorta. Isn't that the point of the stud list? The guys who blew you away and dominated? Rodgers missed a few too many throws and especially that pass where he really underthrew Driver that was intercepted. Man that was an ugly play. Still he wasn't on the duds list which I agree with. He was good but not a stud today. Too many missed opportunities.

[pack4to84]

My take on the Rodgers INT is this. He was running forward he saw no one in the middle think about how far down the field was 54. That would tell you how far Rodgers could have ran. So at the last second he saw Driver get separation so he threw it. I could see on the sideline he was more upset with himself for not taking the 26 yards on the scramble then the INT.

[Iron Mike]

Are so many Packer fans still in the "Favre Withdrawal Mode" that they have to complain about any shortcoming Rodgers might have?!


Those fans need to realize that Favre hadn't beaten the Bears at Lambeau since 2001. That's six consecutive defeats.

Rodgers accomplished it his first time around. :)

[ThunderDan]

I think we're a little spoiled if we want more than Rodgers gave us today. Considering what happened last week, I'm not going to complain at all if Rodgers decides to check down to the TE instead of going deep when facing a blitz. Sure he screwed up on the Urlacher throw, but his accuracy and efficiency were driving the Chicago D into fits. I'll take it.



Are so many Packer fans still in the "Favre Withdrawal Mode" that they have to complain about any shortcoming Rodgers might have?!

Geez, give the first-year starting, 24 year old guy some credit! Yes, he made some mistakes but his positives FAR overweighed his mistakes.

Among Rodgers' strengths all season has been his decision-making. He rarely makes the "bone-headed" plays we were frequently used to seeing Favre make as a veteran QB.

They guy belongs on the Studs list, IMO.

Sorry OPF but this has nothing to do with Favre. Please leave him out of this so the thread doesn't get jacked.

Rodgers had all day to throw and played a good game. His receivers were WIDE open. He just wasn't a stud. In fact his best "non-TD" throw was to Lee that was dropped.

The touchdown to Jennings was good recognition only. Jennings was in man coverage 15 yards away from anyone. The CB had outside leverage so Jennings ran inside and Rodgers hit him.

The touchdown to Lee was set-up by our run offensive. Rodgers made a good play-action fake and the whole Bears defense got sucked up inside leaving Lee 3 yards past the coverage.

I've put Rodgers on the Stud list before; I am sure that I will do that again.

[sheepshead]

I think we're a little spoiled if we want more than Rodgers gave us today. Considering what happened last week, I'm not going to complain at all if Rodgers decides to check down to the TE instead of going deep when facing a blitz. Sure he screwed up on the Urlacher throw, but his accuracy and efficiency were driving the Chicago D into fits. I'll take it.



Are so many Packer fans still in the "Favre Withdrawal Mode" that they have to complain about any shortcoming Rodgers might have?!

Geez, give the first-year starting, 24 year old guy some credit! Yes, he made some mistakes but his positives FAR overweighed his mistakes.

Among Rodgers' strengths all season has been his decision-making. He rarely makes the "bone-headed" plays we were frequently used to seeing Favre make as a veteran QB.

They guy belongs on the Studs list, IMO.

I agree OPF. He looked good yesterday. The INT was just a poor throw, ball slipped, didn't get his footing, something. It wasn't poor judgment as it would have been 6 points had he put something on it.

[pbmax]

The touchdown to Jennings was good recognition only. Jennings was in man coverage 15 yards away from anyone. The CB had outside leverage so Jennings ran inside and Rodgers hit him.
You would have a point here, if indeed, the CB had played outside leverage. But the replays (3 or 4 times, Aikman was insistent on going back to it) showed the CB with inside technique. He failed to diagnose Jennings route early enough and the throw was so quick, he had no time to react. Good route, and good throw.

And you cannot assume a TD, just like in baseball you cannot assume a double play when considering an error. Too many other things need to happen. There is a reason QB percentages go down when you throw deeper.

Doesn't mean that he was a stud in the game, but its not a bad play. McCarthy clearly wants him to take the checkdown on certain reads. And like a young player should, he is listening to the coach. This is both good and bad. It prevents turnovers, but it can also stop drives when the checkdown is well short of first down yardage.

My guess is that McCarthy is relying on a statistical analysis that tells him that the average loss of field position (on a turnover) is much worse than the failure of 3rd down. Over the course of a season, this is likely very true. However, like the Viking game, there will come a time we need the first down no matter what, and then the checkdown is out the door. He will get riskier. And perhaps we need a smaller faster H back type who can make the LB miss on those checkdowns.

[hoosier]

Are so many Packer fans still in the "Favre Withdrawal Mode" that they have to complain about any shortcoming Rodgers might have?!


Those fans need to realize that Favre hadn't beaten the Bears at Lambeau since 2001. That's six consecutive defeats.

Rodgers accomplished it his first time around. :)

Favre last beat them at Lambeau in 2003 (34-21). The Pack also beat the Bears in GB in 2002.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sorta. Isn't that the point of the stud list? The guys who blew you away and dominated? Rodgers missed a few too many throws and especially that pass where he really underthrew Driver that was intercepted. Man that was an ugly play. Still he wasn't on the duds list which I agree with. He was good but not a stud today. Too many missed opportunities.

Well, he named just about everybody on the team (RB, the WRs, the OL, the defense, the kicker, and Jason Hunter). It's obviously not just for players who played "perfect." Do you really think 23 players deserved mention over Rodgers on the stud list? I don't.

[GBRulz]

The Tundra Tailgate Area absolutely sucks. I know the Packers are making money by creating that “experience” for the pre-game but it causes huge crowd flow issues. If you tailgate before the game at the Stadium View and walk past the Resch center to enter the stadium it is now a complete bottleneck.

Have you entered the Oneida Nation Gate at all this year prior to this game? I'm just curious because this was the first game that I've seen it bottle-necked like this, too. Went in through this gate for the MN and Atlanta games and it went fairly smooth. ALL the gates had longer lines and it's to be expected for colder games when security has more layers of clothing and blankets being carried in, etc.

Personally, I think the Tundra Tailgate area is awesome. That's where we were before the game yesterday, too and we had a great time.

[MadtownPacker]

Ryan Grant ran so hard and the o-line keep Chicago out of the backfield. I wish he would deliver some punishment to the safety though instead of taking it.

I think he took and gave some punishment.
:DReally? Cuz I saw a RB who does fine in wide open spaces but would drop as soon as contact was made. BJax delivered more punishment on his few runs than Grant did all day. I highly doubt Grant will be the guy at RB for many years to come. Put him down as a stud for this game I guess but he has likely been the biggest dud of this season IMO.

[bobblehead]

Who is E. Homer?

Rodgers = STUD

Like any QB will make every throw. Good God. You want to talk about what ifs? What if Lee had caught that perfect throw for a TD? Then, you are looking at 24 for 30 for 240 yards and 3 TDs. People cream themselves when other QBs play that well. Different standard for this QB.

Harvey-

It's me.

Rodgers does not go on the stud list. He missed two sure touchdowns. In a close game that's the difference between winning and losing. You can't miss a guy wide open running down the middle because you are afraid of the blitz. He's going to get blitzed his whole career. Next year I think he will be comfortable enough with the blitz pick ups to make the throw he should have.

I didn't add or subtract from Rodgers performance for Lee's drop.

That's right, when the dumb bastard learns to scramble left as much as he scrambles right and quits trying to hit guys over the shoulder on a line he will be a stud. He had all day back there to hit wide open receivers. I don't even remember him getting touched today.

You stupid bastards kill me. Anyone want to tell me why there are no left handed shortstops in the bigs?? Same reason coaches teach a QB to scramble to his right whenever possible.

Now there is a brainteaser for all the intellectuals who have made that same assinine point several times over the last couple weeks. Think long and hard about it and realize that you actually said it enough times to make me waste my time responding.

[boiga]

Really? Cuz I saw a RB who does fine in wide open spaces but would drop as soon as contact was made. BJax delivered more punishment on his few runs than Grant did all day. I highly doubt Grant will be the guy at RB for many years to come. Put him down as a stud for this game I guess but he has likely been the biggest dud of this season IMO.

The important thing to note with Grant is improvement. We have faced three top 10 rushing defenses in the last three weeks and Grant has shown steady improvement against all three. He was regularly generating 5 yards after contact yesterday and showed toughness by coming back strong after having the wind knocked out of him.

You're absolutely right that he had been a dud for the first half of the season, but he's coming on strong in the second half and looks to be a significant asset heading in to the playoff race.

[Gunakor]

Ryan Grant ran so hard and the o-line keep Chicago out of the backfield. I wish he would deliver some punishment to the safety though instead of taking it.

I think he took and gave some punishment.
:DReally? Cuz I saw a RB who does fine in wide open spaces but would drop as soon as contact was made. BJax delivered more punishment on his few runs than Grant did all day. I highly doubt Grant will be the guy at RB for many years to come. Put him down as a stud for this game I guess but he has likely been the biggest dud of this season IMO.


I respect your opinion Mad, but IMO this is a very poor observation. 80% of Grant's yards come after contact. I can't find how many he had against Chicago exactly, but I know it was well over 100. The whole team was raving about it. In Minnesota last week, 71 of his 89 yards came after contact - he would have had a lot more had MM not given up on the run.

To everyone complaining about Grant not producing like a top 10 RB in the league after recieving the contract he got, note that right now Grant is 11th in rushing in the NFL. He's rushed for more yards than certain elite RB's with names like LaDanian Tomlinson and Steven Jackson, with just about equal yards per carry. He's having a pretty good year, all things considered. He's not Clinton Portis or Adrian Peterson, but I never expected him to be - especially in a generally pass happy offense called by MM. I guess I have a hard time calling him the biggest dud of the season.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd say he's been a disappointment, but I think it mainly was due to his injury and no practice time in camp. I've felt he's been back to normal for about the past 4 weeks. I expect him to continue to have a big second half.

[Gunakor]

I'd say he's been a disappointment, but I think it mainly was due to his injury and no practice time in camp. I've felt he's been back to normal for about the past 4 weeks. I expect him to continue to have a big second half.

It's only a disappointment if you are using last season as a barometer. Even most elite RB's don't get 100 yards in every game like Grant did last season, so IMO that's an unfair expectation. RB's IMO can only be judged fairly over the course of a full season. This season Grant is on pace to reach over 1200 yards, a fair expectation for most RB's in the NFL. I wouldn't be disappointed by that at all.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He didn't get 100 yards in every game last year. He got 100 yards in 5 of 10 regular season games and 1 of 2 playoff games.

In his first 6 games this year, he only looked decent in two of them--regardless of stats. He was missing holes. He wasn't breaking tackles. He was averaging 3.5 yards/carry--which is pathetic. He's gotten back to what he was the last 3 or 4 games. He looked below average the first 6 weeks. I think it's because he wasn't healthy.

[Partial]

I'd say he's been a disappointment, but I think it mainly was due to his injury and no practice time in camp. I've felt he's been back to normal for about the past 4 weeks. I expect him to continue to have a big second half.

Really? I haven't seen it for 4. I've certainly seen it the past two, though. He looks fast again, finally. He hits the hole very hard.

On the plus side, did anyone notice how much harder and faster BJack is hitting the hole? At least yesterday, he looked very similiar to Grant. Last year, he looked like he was running through mudd. He has made a ton of progress as a player this year.

I agree the issue was his health, which also probably stems back to missing camp.

Boiga, I doubt much of it has to do with technique. These guys have been running for years. My guess is he couldn't get as low because of the injury.

[boiga]

Health was only part of it though. His technique has improved a lot over the course of the season as well. He's stepping higher, keeping his shoulder pads lower, and making better decisions in the last three games.

Holding out over the off season and the injury that sidelined him in training camp hurt his preparedness and it's taken a while to get his head back in the game.

[The Gunshooter]

Who is E. Homer?

Rodgers = STUD

Like any QB will make every throw. Good God. You want to talk about what ifs? What if Lee had caught that perfect throw for a TD? Then, you are looking at 24 for 30 for 240 yards and 3 TDs. People cream themselves when other QBs play that well. Different standard for this QB.

Harvey-

It's me.

Rodgers does not go on the stud list. He missed two sure touchdowns. In a close game that's the difference between winning and losing. You can't miss a guy wide open running down the middle because you are afraid of the blitz. He's going to get blitzed his whole career. Next year I think he will be comfortable enough with the blitz pick ups to make the throw he should have.

I didn't add or subtract from Rodgers performance for Lee's drop.

That's right, when the dumb bastard learns to scramble left as much as he scrambles right and quits trying to hit guys over the shoulder on a line he will be a stud. He had all day back there to hit wide open receivers. I don't even remember him getting touched today.

You stupid bastards kill me. Anyone want to tell me why there are no left handed shortstops in the bigs?? Same reason coaches teach a QB to scramble to his right whenever possible.

Now there is a brainteaser for all the intellectuals who have made that same assinine point several times over the last couple weeks. Think long and hard about it and realize that you actually said it enough times to make me waste my time responding.

First base doesn't move douchebag. If the defense has to guard against it, it makes Rodgers that much more effective and he can do it well. Favre made a killing with it.

[sheepshead]

e. homer are you watching game films? Just wondering how you know our receivers are running their routes correctly.

[ThunderDan]

e. homer are you watching game films? Just wondering how you know our receivers are running their routes correctly.

I don't watch any game film. I was at the game so I got to see less for replays than what's on the TV.

I specifically was watching the route running because you never get to see that on the television. I really like that I get to be my own viewing filter when I am at the stadium for the game.

[ThunderDan]

You would have a point here, if indeed, the CB had played outside leverage. But the replays (3 or 4 times, Aikman was insistent on going back to it) showed the CB with inside technique. He failed to diagnose Jennings route early enough and the throw was so quick, he had no time to react. Good route, and good throw.

Sorry, I was at the game and didn't get the benefit of Troy Aikman's commentary. It sure looked like outside technique to me live and on the replay. Gimme a break. I didn't get to super slow mo the play.

[HarveyWallbangers]

As stated previously, Aikman pointed out how Graham had inside technique, but he was slow to react and Jennings showed his quickness and burst to get inside of him.


Rodgers engineered an eight-play, 73-yard drive in the first quarter that ended in a quick slant to Greg Jennings for a 3-yard score. Jennings slid by Graham on the play.

"I was actually anticipating it to come inside a little bit," Graham said. "Maybe next time I'll be a little more inside."

[ThunderDan]

The Tundra Tailgate Area absolutely sucks. I know the Packers are making money by creating that “experience” for the pre-game but it causes huge crowd flow issues. If you tailgate before the game at the Stadium View and walk past the Resch center to enter the stadium it is now a complete bottleneck.

Have you entered the Oneida Nation Gate at all this year prior to this game? I'm just curious because this was the first game that I've seen it bottle-necked like this, too. Went in through this gate for the MN and Atlanta games and it went fairly smooth. ALL the gates had longer lines and it's to be expected for colder games when security has more layers of clothing and blankets being carried in, etc.

Personally, I think the Tundra Tailgate area is awesome. That's where we were before the game yesterday, too and we had a great time.

This was my first game this year. My in-laws have Gold package season tickets. It sure caused a cluster fuck to get into the game. First time ever to have that issue. I've been to a few "cold" weather games and have never had to wait that long to get in.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'll point out that ThunderDan did say this before the year.


We still get 6 games in the NFC North which should help big time. 9-7 could easily win the division.

:bclap:

[The Shadow]

Who is E. Homer?

Rodgers = STUD

Like any QB will make every throw. Good God. You want to talk about what ifs? What if Lee had caught that perfect throw for a TD? Then, you are looking at 24 for 30 for 240 yards and 3 TDs. People cream themselves when other QBs play that well. Different standard for this QB.


Rodgers certainly does belong on the stud list.
He played an excellent, smart game, making the Bear defense look silly.