Fire TT

[RashanGary]

I'll be right on board, possibly leading the charge if we have:

Pettway, Hunter, Montgomery, Cole and Harrell in his current shitty fucking state on our defensive line next year. Cole is barely average so maybe he sticks, but the first three listed have to be gone and if Harrell doesn't turn it on by the start of next season he needs to be gone too.

This team cannot pretend to want to win with these players at the most important positions on a football team.

The defensive line is truely pathetic. TT was given a decent DL. That is the big reason we won games early last year. He has no excuse if this keeps on. Much of the team was pure horse shit when he came in, but the DL was growing into somethign pretty good. He cannot continue to demoslish the most important part of the team without replenishing it in a big way.

[dissident94]

His insane love of being young and getting a million draft picks is taking us no where.

Corey Williams wasn't great but he would look good right now with that franchise tag. We had the money. But his love of picks is getting ridiculous.
You cannot always be young. At some point you need to grow up. Even though we are young we are getting old in key areas with no replacements. like CB and tackle

[BallHawk]

So it's his fault Cullen got hurt, KGB got old, and Corey Williams wanted a ridiculous amount of money?

I'm not going to pardon Ted here, our DL is crap, but it's not like he dismantled it through FA or cuts or anything like that. The passage of time and injuries have lead us to where we are now and hopefully over time some picks will develop.

[Bretsky]

So it's his fault Cullen got hurt, KGB got old, and Corey Williams wanted a ridiculous amount of money?

I'm not going to pardon Ted here, our DL is crap, but it's not like he dismantled it through FA or cuts or anything like that. The passage of time and injuries have lead us to where we are now and hopefully over time some picks will develop.

Jenkins- No

Is it his fault for replacing Williams with the Yahoo's in there now ? Yes

No need to even bring up the idea that TT thought Harrell could give us what Williams did............if he even did

KGB getting old ? Well, when somebody gets old you get the troops ready behind him. They are not there.

I'm not remotely near a fire TT area

My expectations were not all that high; the people that thought this team could be close to as good as last year's team are probably more disappointed.

[RashanGary]

So it's his fault Cullen got hurt, KGB got old, and Corey Williams wanted a ridiculous amount of money?

I'm not going to pardon Ted here, our DL is crap, but it's not like he dismantled it through FA or cuts or anything like that. The passage of time and injuries have lead us to where we are now and hopefully over time some picks will develop.

Right. I'm not there yet, but if we go into next year with these guys, there is no excuse.

[dissident94]

So we didn't have money for Williams. Of course we did. We all knew KGB was old a few years ago.

[Bossman641]

The DE's on this team are especially bad. I'm not sure we got anything from the RDE spot all night. Thompson looks like he could be decent with some lifting and coaching. Pettway and Hunter are more special teams players then linemen. It's becoming fairly obvious that the Mike Montgomery experiment needs to end. He had that big game a few weeks back but other then that he hasn't been heard from at all.

[Partial]

So it's his fault Cullen got hurt, KGB got old, and Corey Williams wanted a ridiculous amount of money?

No, but he has access to these players on a daily basis, and should be prepared for the inevitable. Clearly Jenkins is injury prone as he cannot seem to stay healthy. He saw KGB every day in practice. He had talks with Williams, and had the opportunity to keep him around for this year.

It's naive to think all of these things are beyond his control. He knows whats going on, and has to be prepared.

[Patler]

So it's his fault Cullen got hurt, KGB got old, and Corey Williams wanted a ridiculous amount of money?

No, but he has access to these players on a daily basis, and should be prepared for the inevitable. Clearly Jenkins is injury prone as he cannot seem to stay healthy. He saw KGB every day in practice. He had talks with Williams, and had the opportunity to keep him around for this year.

It's naive to think all of these things are beyond his control. He knows whats going on, and has to be prepared.

Yes, the D-line is not playing very well. But it was a real strength of the team last year, the same players (minus one) were returning for this year. Shouldn't thsi have been less of a concern to TT than maybe some other positions. Even with that, TT traded up to get a DE.

There are many, many factors contributing to their poor play on the D-line. In order of importance I would put them as follows:

Loosing Jenkins was the biggest.
KGB falling off the cliff (caused by surgeries) after a bounce-back season in '07
Pickett having a down year.
Jolly regressing, perhaps distracted by legal problems.
Harrell sustaining an off-season injury.
Kampman not playing at a pro-bowl level, even against the run
The proliferation of injuries at DE. Think about it. Pettaway is their 6th RDE.

That is an awful lot to have happen to one position group. Pretty hard to plan for all of that.

[cpk1994]

So it's his fault Cullen got hurt, KGB got old, and Corey Williams wanted a ridiculous amount of money?

No, but he has access to these players on a daily basis, and should be prepared for the inevitable. Clearly Jenkins is injury prone as he cannot seem to stay healthy. He saw KGB every day in practice. He had talks with Williams, and had the opportunity to keep him around for this year.

It's naive to think all of these things are beyond his control. He knows whats going on, and has to be prepared.

Yes, the D-line is not playing very well. But it was a real strength of the team last year, the same players (minus one) were returning for this year. Shouldn't thsi have been less of a concern to TT than maybe some other positions. Even with that, TT traded up to get a DE.

There are many, many factors contributing to their poor play on the D-line. In order of importance I would put them as follows:

Loosing Jenkins was the biggest.
KGB falling off the cliff (caused by surgeries) after a bounce-back season in '07
Pickett having a down year.
Jolly regressing, perhaps distracted by legal problems.
Harrell sustaining an off-season injury.
Kampman not playing at a pro-bowl level, even against the run
The proliferation of injuries at DE. Think about it. Pettaway is their 6th RDE.

That is an awful lot to have happen to one position group. Pretty hard to plan for all of that.I agree. If you want to fire someone, fire Stock and Sanders for gross incompetence.

[RashanGary]

Great, so he didn't see it coming. When I gave my prediction on the season, I said 9-7 because the DL is too thin to repeat. I'm definitly not trying to say I know more than TT but I think it was obvious that we lacked depth on the DL. If he truely didn't see ti coming, I guess there is reason to believe everythign would have went right, but now he should know. If this DL doesn't turn over (and quickly) he needs to be canned. These players do not belong on a roster.

[Fritz]

The lead JSO article focuses on the secondary and how awful it was, but the defensive line made it all possible. What a pathetic performance by that group.

This is not a very good defense. I'm very, very disappointed in this defense.

[RashanGary]

So many of the problems on this team were not TT's fault. The OL with zero depth, bad cap problems and expiring contracts was a disaster created by Mike Sherman.

The linebackers, cornerbacks, safeties, running backs and full backs were all disasters created by Sherman.


HOWEVER. When TT came in, he was handed young players on the DL such as Kampman, Cullen Jenkins and Corey Williams along with a vet that was still putting up big sack numbers in KGB. It was not unmanagable and it's now getting worse. This group has to turn around and you can't go into a year crossing yoru fingers that none of your lineman will get injured. That is a position tha tyou need to plan on having one injury at all times during the season. We have a ton of depth all over the team except where it matters most. We need more players, quickly.

[pbmax]

I have been concerned about the pass rush since before Williams was let go. Clearly we underestimated what the remaining players could give us there. And they probably overestimated Kampman.

But Patler is correct, no segment having used 13 players on a 4 person unit is going to perform above expectations. The D line did their secondary no favors. Kampman got the only heat all night and that was 5 times in my quickly formulated estimation.

The disappointing part is the combination of being short of players and short of fundamentals (esp against running game). I understand if McCarthy refuses to use the injuries or roster construction as excuses publicly, but he does seem honest when he says players are not executing the correct technique. And that comes down to coaching; and none of the coaches are injured.

[Bretsky]

So many of the problems on this team were not TT's fault. The OL with zero depth, bad cap problems and expiring contracts was a disaster created by Mike Sherman.

The linebackers, cornerbacks, safeties, running backs and full backs were all disasters created by Sherman.


HOWEVER. When TT came in, he was handed young players on the DL such as Kampman, Cullen Jenkins and Corey Williams along with a vet that was still putting up big sack numbers in KGB. It was not unmanagable and it's now getting worse. This group has to turn around and you can't go into a year crossing yoru fingers that none of your lineman will get injured. That is a position tha tyou need to plan on having one injury at all times during the season. We have a ton of depth all over the team except where it matters most. We need more players, quickly.


I still remain in the middle on TT; you seem to be moving closer to my view for a change :wink:

[hoosier]

So many of the problems on this team were not TT's fault. The OL with zero depth, bad cap problems and expiring contracts was a disaster created by Mike Sherman.

The linebackers, cornerbacks, safeties, running backs and full backs were all disasters created by Sherman.


HOWEVER. When TT came in, he was handed young players on the DL such as Kampman, Cullen Jenkins and Corey Williams along with a vet that was still putting up big sack numbers in KGB. It was not unmanagable and it's now getting worse. This group has to turn around and you can't go into a year crossing yoru fingers that none of your lineman will get injured. That is a position tha tyou need to plan on having one injury at all times during the season. We have a ton of depth all over the team except where it matters most. We need more players, quickly.

Hmmmm....Weren't you the one who just a week ago was talking up how you've been battling bravely against the fair-weather fans who are always looking for a scapegoat, and saying that, despite all those fickle naysayers, TT is really doing a great job? Did one crappy performance transform TT from a genius into an incompetent?

[RashanGary]

The buck starts and stops with the GM in my opinion. Coaches matter, but most NFL coaches do a good job. It's the players that win and lose games and it's the GM that puts the players on the field.

I'm really happy with TT's overall approach. I think he turned a lot of our aging, overpaid roster over and now we're poised to go up. However, I'm really disappointed in the job he's done on the DL.


Kampman, Corey Williams and Cullen Jenkins were the young core left by Sherman.

Harrell, Jeremy Thompson and drug addict Jolly are the young core that Ted has put together.



I will say, Thompson has done a masterfull job turning over a pathetic roster but man, this DL isn't good enough. I don't expect a SB every year. I don't even expect the playoffs every year. I'd rather have a down year and build it right than pay a lot of money for a false patch and ruin the team for years to come. That said, TT has to be accountable for this group next year. Even if they're young, inconsistent players I'd rather have that than these 4 year nobodies.

[Ballboy]

Lets not forget that the Saints are one of the least sacked teams in the NFL....it really should come as no surprise that we didn't get to him all the time.

TT problem is Justin Harrell. RARELY, is ever does it work out to draft an oft-injured player early in the draft. This pick, and this pick only is bitting him in the ASS. Maybe, and I stress Maybe, in a few years he will be a dominating player at his position, right now, I just don't see it.


TT better draft DL, early and often in this draft. I don't want to see a WR or really any offensive player taken till the 4th round and then it better be an OL.

[ND72]

blah blah blah

after every loss, lets fire TT, after ever win, god we're awesome.

Yes, we have DL issues. I'm sure we'll address it in the offseason.

I'm less worried about that then the fact we made ZERO defensive adjustments.

[hurleyfan]

blah blah blah

after every loss, lets fire TT, after ever win, god we're awesome.

Yes, we have DL issues. I'm sure we'll address it in the offseason.

I'm less worried about that then the fact we made ZERO defensive adjustments.

I sure hope there is a "change" in the D co-ordinator next year.. Too late to change this year.

Singletary may be available!!

[cpk1994]

blah blah blah

after every loss, lets fire TT, after ever win, god we're awesome.

Yes, we have DL issues. I'm sure we'll address it in the offseason.

I'm less worried about that then the fact we made ZERO defensive adjustments.This. Where were the blitzes? Im not saying all the time but if you aren't getting a pass rush with your 4, you bring 5 and 6. Sanders is an idiot.

[Patler]

Great, so he didn't see it coming. When I gave my prediction on the season, I said 9-7 because the DL is too thin to repeat. I'm definitly not trying to say I know more than TT but I think it was obvious that we lacked depth on the DL. If he truely didn't see ti coming, I guess there is reason to believe everythign would have went right, but now he should know. If this DL doesn't turn over (and quickly) he needs to be canned. These players do not belong on a roster.

But when did you say that?

The problem with the NFL today, as Wolf pointed out several years ago (a year or two after he retired) is that you can't "fix" your team after the draft. After the early free agency period and the draft you are pretty much stuck with what you have, because most players available after that will not do much to correct a deficiency. If a problem occurs with your roster after that, you petty much have to muddle through the best you can.

the extent of Harrell's injury, Jollies problems, KGB not responding well to surgery all came up after Williams was traded and too late to do much to "fix" it. The in season injuries to Jenkins, Picket, Thompson, Montgomery, Hunter were well after the Packers were stuck with who they had.

By the time training camp rolled around, I am sure TT knew, as did everyone else, that the D-line could be a problem, but there was not a lot that could be done at that time to fix it.

[Patler]

I'm less worried about that then the fact we made ZERO defensive adjustments.

That, and they seemed ill-prepared to handle what the Saints did to start out with. The defense provided little resistance for the entire game.

[sharpe1027]

blah blah blah

after every loss, lets fire TT, after ever win, god we're awesome.

Yes, we have DL issues. I'm sure we'll address it in the offseason.

I'm less worried about that then the fact we made ZERO defensive adjustments.This. Where were the blitzes? Im not saying all the time but if you aren't getting a pass rush with your 4, you bring 5 and 6. Sanders is an idiot.

Agreed with ND.

CPK, they blitzed alot early and got burned more times that not. This game might be the most I've seen them blitz all year.

[cheesner]

So it's his fault Cullen got hurt, KGB got old, and Corey Williams wanted a ridiculous amount of money?

I'm not going to pardon Ted here, our DL is crap, but it's not like he dismantled it through FA or cuts or anything like that. The passage of time and injuries have lead us to where we are now and hopefully over time some picks will develop.

Right. I'm not there yet, but if we go into next year with these guys, there is no excuse.
In the last 2 years I have heard this same thing said about the WRs and the Safeties. Those both worked out rather well. TT has been good about being dynamic. He doesn't sit with anyone who is 'good enough'. If he has an opportunity in the draft or FA, he will make the move. If there are no decent upgrades at appropriate prices, he won't.

[sharpe1027]

This is the first game that I felt the Packers were just out-matched man-for-man and that includes the Tennesse game. Most every other game the Packer's beat themselves with too many stupid mistakes, IMHO. I don't know what the deal is, but last year they were a much cleaner executing team.

[cpk1994]

blah blah blah

after every loss, lets fire TT, after ever win, god we're awesome.

Yes, we have DL issues. I'm sure we'll address it in the offseason.

I'm less worried about that then the fact we made ZERO defensive adjustments.This. Where were the blitzes? Im not saying all the time but if you aren't getting a pass rush with your 4, you bring 5 and 6. Sanders is an idiot.

Agreed with ND.

CPK, they blitzed alot early and got burned more times that not. This game might be the most I've seen them blitz all year.OK, I missed the first half. But were they Snaders patented blitzing of players from 25 yards away?

[Bossman641]

blah blah blah

after every loss, lets fire TT, after ever win, god we're awesome.

Yes, we have DL issues. I'm sure we'll address it in the offseason.

I'm less worried about that then the fact we made ZERO defensive adjustments.

I sure hope there is a "change" in the D co-ordinator next year.. Too late to change this year.

Singletary may be available!!

I'd like Ron Rivera, but I'm not sure he would make a lateral move now that he has been promoted to DC with the Chargers. I always admired the way he seemed to always have that Bear defense ready to go.

[denverYooper]

blah blah blah

after every loss, lets fire TT, after ever win, god we're awesome.

Yes, we have DL issues. I'm sure we'll address it in the offseason.

I'm less worried about that then the fact we made ZERO defensive adjustments.This. Where were the blitzes? Im not saying all the time but if you aren't getting a pass rush with your 4, you bring 5 and 6. Sanders is an idiot.

Agreed with ND.

CPK, they blitzed alot early and got burned more times that not. This game might be the most I've seen them blitz all year.

Like the corner blitz on the first 70 yard TD? I've never been a big fan of bringing Chuck in a blitz... the risk vs. reward there has never seemed like a worthwhile gamble. Especially against a good QB.

Nothin' like some Tuesday morning quarterbacking.

[sharpe1027]

OK, I missed the first half. But were they Snaders patented blitzing of players from 25 yards away?

I saw a lot of different blitzes, corner blitzes from on the line. LB blitzes up the middle and off the edge, delayed blitzes. Some worked, others did not. Most people want blitzes because they like big plays, unfortunately, they usually do not factor in the big plays that are often given up from the blitzing.

I think they know that Brees would pick them apart if given time and that they couldn't get pressure from their front four. So they blitzed, and got burned anyway.

Maybe if the blitzed more they would have gotten another sack, or course they may also have given up 70 points. Maybe if the blitzed less they would have only given up 40 points, maybe not. It aint as simple as blitz more.

If Woodson picks off the pass early, maybe that makes NO a little more cautious about throwing his way. Maybe the Pack puts together a nice drive from there and keeps Brees off the field that much longer. Maybe, but probably not.

[rbaloha1]

This is absurd.

The team is transitioning from Favre to Rodgers. TT has positioned the team for super bowl runs.

Yes, this was a poor defensive performance. Players were out of position and the d-line could not get off their blocks.

Still in position for the playoffs but its become exceedingly difficult with each loss.

[TheRaven]

His insane love of being young and getting a million draft picks is taking us no where.

Agreed. I can't even remember the last time we won 13 games and went to the NFC Title game..

[Sparkey]

His insane love of being young and getting a million draft picks is taking us no where.

Agreed. I can't even remember the last time we won 13 games and went to the NFC Title game..

The Saints did what Dallas did to Green Bay last year. Put wr's in motion so that the db's can't get on them at the los and jam them. Plus, it seemed that Hawk was a bit slow at times in calling out the D or making adjustments. Poor angles by the safety's and boom. Game over. This is what happens when you have injuries to key personnel during the year.

Jenkins & Barnett out for season.
Bigby hurt and no where near the level he played at last year.
Hawk hurt early and now playing a new position due to Barnett injury.
KGB invisible and released and no passrush opposite Kampman.

Not a big suprise in the inconsistency and drop in play by replacements. It is what it is.

[denverYooper]

His insane love of being young and getting a million draft picks is taking us no where.

Agreed. I can't even remember the last time we won 13 games and went to the NFC Title game..

The Saints did what Dallas did to Green Bay last year. Put wr's in motion so that the db's can't get on them at the los and jam them. Plus, it seemed that Hawk was a bit slow at times in calling out the D or making adjustments. Poor angles by the safety's and boom. Game over. This is what happens when you have injuries to key personnel during the year.

Jenkins & Barnett out for season.
Bigby hurt and no where near the level he played at last year.
Hawk hurt early and now playing a new position due to Barnett injury.
KGB invisible and released and no passrush opposite Kampman.

Not a big suprise in the inconsistency and drop in play by replacements. It is what it is.

good perspective.

I was wondering today if Barnett's absence hurt the GnG against a pass-heavy Saints team. Not that he was Johnny Awesome this year--he's played better against the run in years past--but he's better in coverage than Hawk or PeePee.

[TheCheese]

This thread is such a joke. Even the thread name is fucking laughable, seriously guys where were you when we stomped out the bears.

After a huge win stay even keeled.

After a huge loss stay even keeled.

Really, put some fucking logic into it before you get all "WAH WAH WE LOST BIG FIRE TT IM A WHINY BITCH."

Get real.

[Rastak]

This thread is such a joke. Even the thread name is fucking laughable, seriously guys where were you when we stomped out the bears.

After a huge win stay even keeled.

After a huge loss stay even keeled.

Really, put some fucking logic into it before you get all "WAH WAH WE LOST BIG FIRE TT IM A WHINY BITCH."

Get real.


Well you certainly addressed his post point by point.

[bobblehead]

blah blah blah

after every loss, lets fire TT, after ever win, god we're awesome.

Yes, we have DL issues. I'm sure we'll address it in the offseason.

I'm less worried about that then the fact we made ZERO defensive adjustments.This. Where were the blitzes? Im not saying all the time but if you aren't getting a pass rush with your 4, you bring 5 and 6. Sanders is an idiot.

yea, did you see that awesome corner blitz by woodsen...the one where brees read it perfectly and then Bigby missed a tackle...what a creatively dominant play that one was.

[Fritz]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

Schemes don't necessarily win games, not alone, but it's difficult as a fan to watch Vanilla Bob rush three men against Brees on 3rd and 15. The way that dude was seeing the field, that was like giving him the first down.

Guess I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme.

[cpk1994]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

Schemes don't necessarily win games, not alone, but it's difficult as a fan to watch Vanilla Bob rush three men against Brees on 3rd and 15. The way that dude was seeing the field, that was like giving him the first down.

Guess I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme.A way to look at it, you have Vanilla Bob now which is bery passive. At one time in the past, yuo had Bob Slowik, blitz happy. Some where in the middle of those two philosophies leaning towards aggressive would be the key.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

AT defensive end, we got Thompson, Montgomery and Hunter splitting time. I defy you to scheme those turds into pass rushing threats.

And the defensive tackles are run stuffers, with just a rare burst upfield from Jolly.

They don't have the horses. Or players. Defensive line has been their achilies heel from day one, and they got exposed by a good O-line and great QB.

[prsnfoto]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

Schemes don't necessarily win games, not alone, but it's difficult as a fan to watch Vanilla Bob rush three men against Brees on 3rd and 15. The way that dude was seeing the field, that was like giving him the first down.

Guess I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme.

You are not going to see that in GB they don't spend any money on stud linemen all ya got is Kampman and he was probably found by accident. The secondary has keep us in and won some games this year, the D has been a little dinged up where does the real problem lie>>>>>>>> The Offense they have been relatively healthy they are not scoring enough points and as bad as the d played if Rodgers doesn't throw three YEE HAW'S they were keeping pace. The D has it's problems but the O has failed to perform against teams that mount any kind of pressure whatsoever, bottomline they are soft and play less physical teams well like the Bears they ain't nothing like they used to be.

[Patler]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

AT defensive end, we got Thompson, Montgomery and Hunter splitting time. I defy you to scheme those turds into pass rushing threats.

And the defensive tackles are run stuffers, with just a rare burst upfield from Jolly.

They don't have the horses. Or players. Defensive line has been their achilies heel from day one, and they got exposed by a good O-line and great QB.

Gotta agree with HH on that. How much better would this line be with Jenkins at DE regularly and with KGB of the 2007 form on passing downs? How many more sacks would Kampman have?

[ThunderDan]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

Schemes don't necessarily win games, not alone, but it's difficult as a fan to watch Vanilla Bob rush three men against Brees on 3rd and 15. The way that dude was seeing the field, that was like giving him the first down.

Guess I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme.

You are not going to see that in GB they don't spend any money on stud linemen all ya got is Kampman and he was probably found by accident. The secondary has keep us in and won some games this year, the D has been a little dinged up where does the real problem lie>>>>>>>> The Offense they have been relatively healthy they are not scoring enough points and as bad as the d played if Rodgers doesn't throw three YEE HAW'S they were keeping pace. The D has it's problems but the O has failed to perform against teams that mount any kind of pressure whatsoever, bottomline they are soft and play less physical teams well like the Bears they ain't nothing like they used to be.

Are you joking?!!? :oops:

You expect our offense to score 52 points a week! :oops:

Put the blame where it is due. Solidly on the D!

[RashanGary]

Ted will not draft a lesser player becuase he needs him more, however, there do seem to be many times that he has a choice of several players and he tends to either trade back or take the one he needs most if a trade is not possible. This is a year that maybe this tie breaker situation brings us some extra DL as I see DL as the #1 need and hope Ted does as well.

I hope this is a very deep DL draft. I don't really care if they're 1st or 2nd rounders, I just hope we bring in a lot of new blood. HIstory has shown us that the difference between a 6th rounder (Jolly) and a 1st rounder (Harrell) can be very small. As long as we start putting recources into this area I'll be happy. We're not going to hit on every pick, so we have to make sure to make several of them and let the cream rise to the top. I don't think all is lost, I just hope Ted isn't enamoured with this group. I really think this is an awfull DL and they need to be turned over as our best ones are about to hit that magical age of 30 and we have very little coming up.

The reason I hold Ted accountable right now for this problem is that he didn't inherit this one. He made it. The DL (IMO) is the most important part of the defense. This is just not acceptable. Many people blame Thompson for things that he had very little control over. Good things and bad things in the NFL are built over time. Many bad things were being built leading to Ted inheritance. He's been building many good things but the DL is not one of them. He has not put enough recources in this all important area IMO. I hope that trend changes.

[prsnfoto]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

Schemes don't necessarily win games, not alone, but it's difficult as a fan to watch Vanilla Bob rush three men against Brees on 3rd and 15. The way that dude was seeing the field, that was like giving him the first down.

Guess I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme.

You are not going to see that in GB they don't spend any money on stud linemen all ya got is Kampman and he was probably found by accident. The secondary has keep us in and won some games this year, the D has been a little dinged up where does the real problem lie>>>>>>>> The Offense they have been relatively healthy they are not scoring enough points and as bad as the d played if Rodgers doesn't throw three YEE HAW'S they were keeping pace. The D has it's problems but the O has failed to perform against teams that mount any kind of pressure whatsoever, bottomline they are soft and play less physical teams well like the Bears they ain't nothing like they used to be.

Are you joking?!!? :oops:

You expect our offense to score 52 points a week! :oops:

Put the blame where it is due. Solidly on the D!


You are talking about last week I am talking about the whole season yes Brees torched them because he is the only stud QB they have faced this year but look at how many defensive TD's they have scored this year. When the game is on the line how often has the Offense came through, better yet when faced with any kind of pass rush how many times has the Offense came through? Even better queation when the franchises future is on the line when has TT came through and drafted the O-lineman or D-lineman to save the team?

[ThunderDan]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

Schemes don't necessarily win games, not alone, but it's difficult as a fan to watch Vanilla Bob rush three men against Brees on 3rd and 15. The way that dude was seeing the field, that was like giving him the first down.

Guess I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme.

You are not going to see that in GB they don't spend any money on stud linemen all ya got is Kampman and he was probably found by accident. The secondary has keep us in and won some games this year, the D has been a little dinged up where does the real problem lie>>>>>>>> The Offense they have been relatively healthy they are not scoring enough points and as bad as the d played if Rodgers doesn't throw three YEE HAW'S they were keeping pace. The D has it's problems but the O has failed to perform against teams that mount any kind of pressure whatsoever, bottomline they are soft and play less physical teams well like the Bears they ain't nothing like they used to be.

Are you joking?!!? :oops:

You expect our offense to score 52 points a week! :oops:

Put the blame where it is due. Solidly on the D!


You are talking about last week I am talking about the whole season yes Brees torched them because he is the only stud QB they have faced this year but look at how many defensive TD's they have scored this year. When the game is on the line how often has the Offense came through, better yet when faced with any kind of pass rush how many times has the Offense came through? Even better queation when the franchises future is on the line when has TT came through and drafted the O-lineman or D-lineman to save the team?

TT has drafted:
Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Giacomini, Moll, Barbre, Harrell, Montgomery, Jolly and Thompson and those are only the guys that made the team.

He also brought in Pickett, Klemm and some other Gs that have been dumped.

He also got the Packers Rodgers, Charles Woodson, Grant, Collins, Crosby, Hawk, Chillar, Poopinga, Jennings, Martin, James Jones and Nelson just to name a few.

We only have 9 players left from Mike Sherman or before. Do you realize the Packers have 3 Sherman draft picks on the roster. This should be the core veterans that have been around for 5 -8 years. We have Barnett and Kampman.

[Bretsky]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

Schemes don't necessarily win games, not alone, but it's difficult as a fan to watch Vanilla Bob rush three men against Brees on 3rd and 15. The way that dude was seeing the field, that was like giving him the first down.

Guess I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme.

You are not going to see that in GB they don't spend any money on stud linemen all ya got is Kampman and he was probably found by accident. The secondary has keep us in and won some games this year, the D has been a little dinged up where does the real problem lie>>>>>>>> The Offense they have been relatively healthy they are not scoring enough points and as bad as the d played if Rodgers doesn't throw three YEE HAW'S they were keeping pace. The D has it's problems but the O has failed to perform against teams that mount any kind of pressure whatsoever, bottomline they are soft and play less physical teams well like the Bears they ain't nothing like they used to be.

Are you joking?!!? :oops:

You expect our offense to score 52 points a week! :oops:

Put the blame where it is due. Solidly on the D!


You are talking about last week I am talking about the whole season yes Brees torched them because he is the only stud QB they have faced this year but look at how many defensive TD's they have scored this year. When the game is on the line how often has the Offense came through, better yet when faced with any kind of pass rush how many times has the Offense came through? Even better queation when the franchises future is on the line when has TT came through and drafted the O-lineman or D-lineman to save the team?

TT has drafted:
Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Giacomini, Moll, Barbre, Harrell, Montgomery, Jolly and Thompson and those are only the guys that made the team.

He also brought in Pickett, Klemm and some other Gs that have been dumped.

He also got the Packers Rodgers, Charles Woodson, Grant, Collins, Crosby, Hawk, Chillar, Poopinga, Jennings, Martin, James Jones and Nelson just to name a few.

We only have 9 players left from Mike Sherman or before. Do you realize the Packers have 3 Sherman draft picks on the roster. This should be the core veterans that have been around for 5 -8 years. We have Barnett and Kampman.


JH is right in that TT has not done our DL too much good. Impacts are the loss of Corey Williams and one free agent signing in Pickett.

[ThunderDan]

Saying TT has done nothing is incorrect. He may not have been effective but he has tried. Maybe it is the scheme we run. It seems more important to hold your assigned gap than pressure the QB and backfield.

[wist43]

I've said this before, I don't think TT should be fired... that said, I don't think his current MO will corral us another Lombardi Trophy.

TT is a very good talent evaluator IMO, but he also has some philosophical quirks that seem to keep him mired in perpetual restocking mode - as I and other critics have been saying for some time now, at some point you have to "win now".

TT with his never ending parade of 23 player drafts... to what end??? At some point he's just pushing last years 4th round pick off the roster with this years 4th round pick. Lots of mid level players, but no difference makers.

And don't even get me started on the schemes.

[rbaloha1]

Why is this even a thread?

TT cleaned up a mess created by TAMU's head coach Mike Sherman (anybody watch the game and witness MS acting like a maniac?).

TT has positioned this team for super bowl runs. The division is still winnable. TT is not the coach. TT is not too blame for injuries.

TT builds a winning roster. Its up to the coaches to coach players to win.

[prsnfoto]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

Schemes don't necessarily win games, not alone, but it's difficult as a fan to watch Vanilla Bob rush three men against Brees on 3rd and 15. The way that dude was seeing the field, that was like giving him the first down.

Guess I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme.

You are not going to see that in GB they don't spend any money on stud linemen all ya got is Kampman and he was probably found by accident. The secondary has keep us in and won some games this year, the D has been a little dinged up where does the real problem lie>>>>>>>> The Offense they have been relatively healthy they are not scoring enough points and as bad as the d played if Rodgers doesn't throw three YEE HAW'S they were keeping pace. The D has it's problems but the O has failed to perform against teams that mount any kind of pressure whatsoever, bottomline they are soft and play less physical teams well like the Bears they ain't nothing like they used to be.

Are you joking?!!? :oops:

You expect our offense to score 52 points a week! :oops:

Put the blame where it is due. Solidly on the D!


You are talking about last week I am talking about the whole season yes Brees torched them because he is the only stud QB they have faced this year but look at how many defensive TD's they have scored this year. When the game is on the line how often has the Offense came through, better yet when faced with any kind of pass rush how many times has the Offense came through? Even better queation when the franchises future is on the line when has TT came through and drafted the O-lineman or D-lineman to save the team?

TT has drafted:
Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Giacomini, Moll, Barbre, Harrell, Montgomery, Jolly and Thompson and those are only the guys that made the team.

He also brought in Pickett, Klemm and some other Gs that have been dumped.

He also got the Packers Rodgers, Charles Woodson, Grant, Collins, Crosby, Hawk, Chillar, Poopinga, Jennings, Martin, James Jones and Nelson just to name a few.

We only have 9 players left from Mike Sherman or before. Do you realize the Packers have 3 Sherman draft picks on the roster. This should be the core veterans that have been around for 5 -8 years. We have Barnett and Kampman.


I never said he didn't try I asked when he has come through so far all we know is he can draft WR's and probably found a servicable QB I give him credit for that and comparing him to Sherman doesn't say much. The O-line is no better than it was 3 years ago and had he not signed Pickett he has destroyed the D-line with his stupid choices. Woodson is a stud and Collins looks to have turned the corner, but other than Jennings every other guy you listed above is just a guy and could easily be replaced with another body.

[ThunderDan]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

Schemes don't necessarily win games, not alone, but it's difficult as a fan to watch Vanilla Bob rush three men against Brees on 3rd and 15. The way that dude was seeing the field, that was like giving him the first down.

Guess I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme.

You are not going to see that in GB they don't spend any money on stud linemen all ya got is Kampman and he was probably found by accident. The secondary has keep us in and won some games this year, the D has been a little dinged up where does the real problem lie>>>>>>>> The Offense they have been relatively healthy they are not scoring enough points and as bad as the d played if Rodgers doesn't throw three YEE HAW'S they were keeping pace. The D has it's problems but the O has failed to perform against teams that mount any kind of pressure whatsoever, bottomline they are soft and play less physical teams well like the Bears they ain't nothing like they used to be.

Are you joking?!!? :oops:

You expect our offense to score 52 points a week! :oops:

Put the blame where it is due. Solidly on the D!


You are talking about last week I am talking about the whole season yes Brees torched them because he is the only stud QB they have faced this year but look at how many defensive TD's they have scored this year. When the game is on the line how often has the Offense came through, better yet when faced with any kind of pass rush how many times has the Offense came through? Even better queation when the franchises future is on the line when has TT came through and drafted the O-lineman or D-lineman to save the team?

TT has drafted:
Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Giacomini, Moll, Barbre, Harrell, Montgomery, Jolly and Thompson and those are only the guys that made the team.

He also brought in Pickett, Klemm and some other Gs that have been dumped.

He also got the Packers Rodgers, Charles Woodson, Grant, Collins, Crosby, Hawk, Chillar, Poopinga, Jennings, Martin, James Jones and Nelson just to name a few.

We only have 9 players left from Mike Sherman or before. Do you realize the Packers have 3 Sherman draft picks on the roster. This should be the core veterans that have been around for 5 -8 years. We have Barnett and Kampman.


I never said he didn't try I asked when he has come through so far all we know is he can draft WR's and probably found a servicable QB I give him credit for that and comparing him to Sherman doesn't say much. The O-line is no better than it was 3 years ago and had he not signed Pickett he has destroyed the D-line with his stupid choices. Woodson is a stud and Collins looks to have turned the corner, but other than Jennings every other guy you listed above is just a guy and could easily be replaced with another body.

Are you really that ignorant? :oops:

How many stud players are in the league? Maybe 10-20? So any team that has more than 1 is lucky and with FA now days it is hard to hold on to more than one and not break the bank. How many 6 year $60,000,000 contracts, with $31 M guaranteed, can one team sign?

Expecting to find stud after stud at every position is a joke.

[ThunderDan]

When other teams start picking up our cast-a-ways, like is now starting to happen, it shows how good your "only a guy" guys are.

[digitaldean]

If we're going to pick on the defense, let's look at the LB's too. They all were exposed in the last game.

Even before going on IR, Barnett wasn't having as good a year as 2007. Hawk, when he came back and filled in sucked even more at coverage. Poppinga has proven he can control his overpersuing ways. The only bright spot was Chillar, and even he stunk on Mon. night.

I do fault TT for not trying to put more into FA. I have said previously as well. Yes, there are a lot of Joe Johnsons out there, but look at the Jets in FA. Faneca and Woody have helped anchor that line. Plus having a C like Mangold doesn't hurt either. Plus they get Jenkins (formerly of Carolina) on the D-Line and their D-line play has improved markedly.

Stock's infatuation with Frost should at the very least have him in hot water. Frost's punting makes me wish for Bidwell to be back here punting.

[bobblehead]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

Schemes don't necessarily win games, not alone, but it's difficult as a fan to watch Vanilla Bob rush three men against Brees on 3rd and 15. The way that dude was seeing the field, that was like giving him the first down.

Guess I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme.

You are not going to see that in GB they don't spend any money on stud linemen all ya got is Kampman and he was probably found by accident. The secondary has keep us in and won some games this year, the D has been a little dinged up where does the real problem lie>>>>>>>> The Offense they have been relatively healthy they are not scoring enough points and as bad as the d played if Rodgers doesn't throw three YEE HAW'S they were keeping pace. The D has it's problems but the O has failed to perform against teams that mount any kind of pressure whatsoever, bottomline they are soft and play less physical teams well like the Bears they ain't nothing like they used to be.

I'm gonna assume you are joking or else you might hate me forever if I were to give my opinion.

Let me just ask you...the part where rodgers and the offense had a 2:1 time of possession advantage and put up 21 in the first half....that was their fault they were down by 3 cuz why again??

[Tarlam!]

It's funny how fickle we fans are. Nobody was calling for TT's head after 13-3.

This roller coaster season was to be expected. A-Rod is still getting his feet wet. In 2 dome games, he's been remarkably Favre-like, who also didn't do well in domes his early years.

Exactly, how is that TT's fault?

The last thing the Packers need now is panic. Calling for anyone's head is akin to a panic reaction, IMHO. I'm not saying we should have the team run like the Lions. I'm just suggesting we let them implement the plan they obviously have.

As for last Monday, I think we went in there with over confidence. All week, the interviews were cocky. If I am NO, I just want to stuff it to the Packers.

All of this is clearly TT's doing.

[cpk1994]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

Schemes don't necessarily win games, not alone, but it's difficult as a fan to watch Vanilla Bob rush three men against Brees on 3rd and 15. The way that dude was seeing the field, that was like giving him the first down.

Guess I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme.

You are not going to see that in GB they don't spend any money on stud linemen all ya got is Kampman and he was probably found by accident. The secondary has keep us in and won some games this year, the D has been a little dinged up where does the real problem lie>>>>>>>> The Offense they have been relatively healthy they are not scoring enough points and as bad as the d played if Rodgers doesn't throw three YEE HAW'S they were keeping pace. The D has it's problems but the O has failed to perform against teams that mount any kind of pressure whatsoever, bottomline they are soft and play less physical teams well like the Bears they ain't nothing like they used to be.

I'm gonna assume you are joking or else you might hate me forever if I were to give my opinion.

Let me just ask you...the part where rodgers and the offense had a 2:1 time of possession advantage and put up 21 in the first half....that was their fault they were down by 3 cuz why again??He's not joking sadly. There are those, him included, that are so pissed of at TT for FAvre not being here that they will blame the offfense and Rodgers for everything to justufy their hate even when the blame isn't there. That said you make a great point and all of those that blame the O or Rodgers for the NO loss need to come back to your post.

[pack4to84]

I think many of us are frustrated with the defensive coaching. The defensive scheme itself seems to encourage a kind of passivity by the defensive line. They're supposed to hold gaps, right? I like the idea of encouraging them to go get the damn football.

Schemes don't necessarily win games, not alone, but it's difficult as a fan to watch Vanilla Bob rush three men against Brees on 3rd and 15. The way that dude was seeing the field, that was like giving him the first down.

Guess I'd like to see a more aggressive defensive scheme.

You are not going to see that in GB they don't spend any money on stud linemen all ya got is Kampman and he was probably found by accident. The secondary has keep us in and won some games this year, the D has been a little dinged up where does the real problem lie>>>>>>>> The Offense they have been relatively healthy they are not scoring enough points and as bad as the d played if Rodgers doesn't throw three YEE HAW'S they were keeping pace. The D has it's problems but the O has failed to perform against teams that mount any kind of pressure whatsoever, bottomline they are soft and play less physical teams well like the Bears they ain't nothing like they used to be.
Last year the D allowed 291 points in 16 games that is a 18.18 per game
This year the D allowed 260 points in 11 games that is a 23.64 per game.

Last year the O scored 435 points in 16 games that is a 27.19 per game.
This year the O scored 303 points in 11 games that is a 27.55 per game.

The D has had some good games but still can't stop a team when they need to the most. Vikings game Packers up 6 couldn't stop them on there last drive. Titan game tied in overtime couldn't stop them on there last drive. Saints game did they stop them not once when it mattered.

[Bretsky]

It's funny how fickle we fans are. Nobody was calling for TT's head after 13-3.

This roller coaster season was to be expected. A-Rod is still getting his feet wet. In 2 dome games, he's been remarkably Favre-like, who also didn't do well in domes his early years.

Exactly, how is that TT's fault?

The last thing the Packers need now is panic. Calling for anyone's head is akin to a panic reaction, IMHO. I'm not saying we should have the team run like the Lions. I'm just suggesting we let them implement the plan they obviously have.

As for last Monday, I think we went in there with over confidence. All week, the interviews were cocky. If I am NO, I just want to stuff it to the Packers.

All of this is clearly TT's doing.


On the other hand after 13-3 many thought TT was the greatest thing since sliced bread; now things are coming down to reality. He's done a decent job; he gets the glory of 13-3 but also some of the blame blame when things don't go as well as they could and they fall back from near to the top to very average.. I have a hard time defending those who criticize TT for the personnell on the DL at this point.....although I hope some of his youngies develop as TT must think they will.

[bobblehead]

I think its time to dig up the Harrell Draft threads. I want to see who was harping about what an idiot TT was for drafting a DL in the first round cuz that was clearly our deepest position.

You all howl about him not taking chances, but he drafted a hugely talented guy in the #16 spot despite injury issues. He took a shot at getting a big time talent at 16 instead of taking a safer pick....now all those same people are blasting him because he should be able to magically tell which players get past injury issues and which ones don't.

[Bretsky]

I think its time to dig up the Harrell Draft threads. I want to see who was harping about what an idiot TT was for drafting a DL in the first round cuz that was clearly our deepest position.

You all howl about him not taking chances, but he drafted a hugely talented guy in the #16 spot despite injury issues. He took a shot at getting a big time talent at 16 instead of taking a safer pick....now all those same people are blasting him because he should be able to magically tell which players get past injury issues and which ones don't.


Agree not many liked the Harrell pick; throw my name in that group. To be honest I wasn't high on the DL left on the board at the 16 slot after Carreaker was drafted.

I had even noted it could be a sign that TT was going to let Williams go a year later.

I don't think I agree that many in here would have categorized JH as a big time talent though. There are a lot of reasons people didn't like that pick. TT fell in love with the guy and thought he had great potential. Time will tell.