Could the Packers use help at every position?

[RashanGary]

Are these guys replacable?

Pettway, Hunter, Montgomery

Cole, Harrell

Chillar, Poppinga, Lansanah

Peprah

Bush, Blackmon

Wynn

Kuhn or Hall

J Finley, T Humphrey

Ruvell Martin

Giacomini, Wells, Clifton, Moll, Barbre



This is something like 40% of the roster that isn't very good.



With the exception of QB (where we have a good starter and two promising prospects) you would think it would be pretty easy to add players across the entire roster. Everyone wants fewer picks this year, but why? Our roster isn't really all that good from top to bottom. It's better than it was a few years ago, but it has a ways to go. I would be OK with another 10 draft picks. Maybe 7 of them would utlimately make the team, but we could definitly use some fresh blood, esspecially on the DL.

[MJZiggy]

Even without the obvious logic that you don't get a whole roster of superstars, some of the folk you listed are more valuable to the team than you'd suspect. Martin is the only big "let em go up and get it" receiver we have. The rest of the guys are not so tall. What's wrong with Chillar? Blackmon is turning into a very decent returner.

A lot of the rest of the guys you list are backups and you're just not going to have star quality backups. If they're that good, they will move on and start elsewhere if they can't take the job here. Why not go after a few stars rather than a lot of guys?

[Bretsky]

Are these guys replacable?

Pettway, Hunter, Montgomery

Cole, Harrell

Chillar, Poppinga, Lansanah

Peprah

Bush, Blackmon

Wynn

Kuhn or Hall

J Finley, T Humphrey

Ruvell Martin

Giacomini, Wells, Clifton, Moll, Barbre



This is something like 40% of the roster that isn't very good.



With the exception of QB (where we have a good starter and two promising prospects) you would think it would be pretty easy to add players across the entire roster. Everyone wants fewer picks this year, but why? Our roster isn't really all that good from top to bottom. It's better than it was a few years ago, but it has a ways to go. I would be OK with another 10 draft picks. Maybe 7 of them would utlimately make the team, but we could definitly use some fresh blood, esspecially on the DL.


I have no problem with the adding of picks as long as it doesn't result in backups constantly displacing backups. More important to hit on the higher picks since normally they are most likely to become starters I'd guess.

If you utilize free agency a bit more aggressivly maybe the strategy of pick accumulation becomes better. Of the guys you list Chillar does jump out to me as a gamer. Cole is a solid "last" DL in the rotation but not much more. Some of those guys could easily be replaced and cut as well.

I honestly see your point as well as Wist's views that by doing this TT just keeps reloading the bottom quarter of the roster. I probably don't have a view yet on who is right.

[RashanGary]

You take more players and you have more chances at stars. Jennings was just a 2nd round pick, one nobody knew of before the draft and oen many complained about. He was just one of many, but he turned out to be a star. Grant was a low key last minute trade that might have been a roster cut. He was just one of many low key moves but turned out to be a star. Kampman the same.

We have a better chance of hitting a star with mroe picks than with less. Look, TT had options to trade back with Harrell but he stuck with the higher pick and that didn't pan out very well. People make the mistake of thinking more picks means less quality. I think more picks is more chances at quality because it's such a crap shoot. On top of that, you can get rid of low potential duds at the back of the roster too. It's not even a give/take. It's take/take. Best of both worlds.



On a side note, Everette Brown, DE from FSU would be a great pick for our defense. He's a stud. I'm sure he'll move up into the top 10, just so we can't get him.

[Bretsky]

You take more players and you have more chances at stars. Jennings was just a 2nd round pick, one nobody knew of before the draft and oen many complained about. He was just one of many, but he turned out to be a star. Grant was a low key last minute trade that might have been a roster cut. He was just one of many low key moves but turned out to be a star. Kampman the same.

We have a better chance of hitting a star with mroe picks than with less. Look, TT had options to trade back with Harrell but he stuck with the higher pick and that didn't pan out very well.



On a side note, Everette Brown, DE from FSU would be a great pick for our defense. He's a stud. I'm sure he'll move up into the top 10, just so we can't get him.


Maybe TT should move up in round one ? Harell, I don't think, excited many in here.

But along with more depth this team could really use another stud on the defeinsive side. I like the idea of moving up in round one if there is a guy you think can be a star. Of course much will depend on what we do these last four games.

TT has accumulated a ton of picks the past few years. Jennings is clearly a hit. But hard to name any guy from four on who really sticks out so far. Kampman was a Sherman guy; I think he even might have traded up for him but not positive about that.

As far as those 6th and 7th rounders, I'd be fine with TT trading one a year to get a serviceable players. So far none that I can remember seem to be doing much for Green Bay.

[Bretsky]

BTW, GOOD THREAD IDEA

[RashanGary]

BTW, GOOD THREAD IDEA

With the way the shitty season is playing out, I'm looking ahead. Losing Favre hurt us a little and the DL absolutely crumbled. I have zero hope for this team, with this DL. Less than zero acctually. We have some solid things in place so it's not as grim as 2005, but I've given up on the season all the same.

[Bretsky]

BTW, GOOD THREAD IDEA

With the way the shitty season is playing out, I'm looking ahead. Losing Favre hurt us a little and the DL absolutely crumbled. I have zero hope for this team, with this DL. Less than zero acctually. We have some solid things in place so it's not as grim as 2005, but I've given up on the season all the same.


Actually I have as well; again for me it's about winning championships so I gave up on this year sooner than you. It's easier to accept losses when you kick back and just look toward the future.

[Noodle]

I have no problem with the adding of picks as long as it doesn't result in backups constantly displacing backups. More important to hit on the higher picks since normally they are most likely to become starters I'd guess.


I think this is an important point. We get romanced by the idea of some 5th or 6th rounder becoming an HoFer, but that hardly ever happens. Yeah, I know about DD, but the best guy TT ever drafted was a 2nd rounder (Jenkins), and maybe eventually it will prove to be a 1st rounder (A-Rod).

It makes no sense to load up with picks in the middle to bottom of the draft unless that's where you plan to finish in your division.

[RashanGary]

Actually I have as well; again for me it's about winning championships so I gave up on this year sooner than you. It's easier to accept losses when you kick back and just look toward the future.


Haha, you're even more "don't give a shit" than me now :) :)

I give a shit. I just know it's impossible to win the big one every year so I sort of take a bigger picture look at it. I try to see if things are on the way up and if we should have chances at SB's for many years. I just think the odds are better if you have a perennially good team rather than a one shot, blow your load explosion of free agents that give you one short term shot that isn't very likely to hit anyway. Really, if the stars aligned this year and Jenkins didn't get hurt I think we would have been competitive to the end. We have to bring in more talent on the DL, but this team does have a chance every year.

[ThunderDan]

Are these guys replacable?

Pettway, Hunter, Montgomery

Cole, Harrell

Chillar, Poppinga, Lansanah

Peprah

Bush, Blackmon

Wynn

Kuhn or Hall

J Finley, T Humphrey

Ruvell Martin

Giacomini, Wells, Clifton, Moll, Barbre



This is something like 40% of the roster that isn't very good.



With the exception of QB (where we have a good starter and two promising prospects) you would think it would be pretty easy to add players across the entire roster. Everyone wants fewer picks this year, but why? Our roster isn't really all that good from top to bottom. It's better than it was a few years ago, but it has a ways to go. I would be OK with another 10 draft picks. Maybe 7 of them would utlimately make the team, but we could definitly use some fresh blood, esspecially on the DL.

Sure, in a perfect world! :roll:

At best we will have 10 or so draft picks. So if we let those guys go we can't even fill our roster unless we signed all the mid-level FA available. Are there that many players available at those positions that would be upgrades from what we have?

My thoughts on the subject is you need to have one good to great player drafted every year. And then you need to find 3 to 4 solid players in the draft who can play and aren't studs. If you can do this consistantly you are a playoff caliber team. Throw in a critical FA signing every once in a while and you go to the SuperBowl.

[denverYooper]

I've been pleasantly surprised by the FBs.

[sheepshead]

I guess i'm not following this thread. Every team has back ups. Hell I was one in high school. Are you saying we need better back ups? a deeper bench? or did you just lop off the bottom 3rd of the roster and crucify them?

[Brando19]

I guess i'm not following this thread. Every team has back ups. Hell I was one in high school. Are you saying we need better back ups? a deeper bench? or did you just lop off the bottom 3rd of the roster and crucify them?

Are you saying you're as good as Blackmon and Bush?

[Partial]

I guess i'm not following this thread. Every team has back ups. Hell I was one in high school. Are you saying we need better back ups? a deeper bench? or did you just lop off the bottom 3rd of the roster and crucify them?

What he did was take our "incredibly deep" team from last year, and blame the back-ups for the skill players lack of performance this year. Has it ever occured to you that the offense is struggling because they got rid of their best offensive starter and mvp candidate for a rookie?

The problem is NOT the depth of the team. We're as deep and talented as anybody. It's our league worst offense on 3rd down, which is a direct result of our poor quarterback play, which leads to the defense being the field more, which leads to exhaustion, and which leads to them not being able to stop the run.

Duh.

[sheepshead]

He excluded the quarterback position.

[RashanGary]

The problem is NOT the depth of the team. We're as deep and talented as anybody. It's our league worst offense on 3rd down, which is a direct result of our poor quarterback play, which leads to the defense being the field more, which leads to exhaustion, and which leads to them not being able to stop the run.

Duh.


What was the defenses problem in the first half of hte Saints game where our offense had the ball for 18:30 to their 11:30 yet the Saints scored on every drive, while we were fresh. Then came back in the 2nd half, having only been on the field for 11:30 in the first and again let teh Saints score just about every time. Did they punt at all?

If you want to believe this, you're just ignoring reality, Partial. Losing Favre is a part of our problem, but the defensive problems have very little to do with that. As of right now we're 11th in time of possession on offense and 15th in yards. That takes away the exhaustion excuse from our 22nd ranked defense.

The Packers are what they are, an average team with a slightly above average offense and slightly below average defense, not the other way around.

[RashanGary]

I guess I figured the the lower part of the roster would turn over and the starters would move to backups eventually.


Poppinga, Chillar, Bigby, Montgomery, Jolly, Clifton, Wells, Donald Lee could all be upgraded and that would push the lowest guys off the ladder in many cases. Then you have a few aging guys like Pickett, Clifton, Tauscher, Harris and Woodson that will need to eventually be replaced. This team will benefit by getting better 1-53. We don't have even 40 good players so adding 10 should be pretty helpfull. If people can't imagine how improving the roster would improve the team and see how it would trickle down without some sort of explaination, who am I to try to fix that? There is really not much I can do for you if you don't get it on your own, sheep.

[Partial]

The problem is NOT the depth of the team. We're as deep and talented as anybody. It's our league worst offense on 3rd down, which is a direct result of our poor quarterback play, which leads to the defense being the field more, which leads to exhaustion, and which leads to them not being able to stop the run.

Duh.


What was the defenses problem in the first half of hte Saints game where our offense had the ball for 18:30 to their 11:30 yet the Saints scored on every drive, while we were fresh. Then came back in the 2nd half, having only been on the field for 11:30 in the first and again let teh Saints score just about every time. Did they punt at all?

If you want to believe this, you're just ignoring reality, Partial. Losing Favre is a part of our problem, but the defensive problems have very little to do with that. As of right now we're 11th in time of possession on offense and 15th in yards. That takes away the exhaustion excuse from our 22nd ranked defense.

The Packers are what they are, an average team with a slightly above average offense and slightly below average defense, not the other way around.

The Saints are a potent offense that was on fire. They would have done that against any team.

Time of posession isn't everything. Demoralizing drives suck the wind right out of our teams sails. Especially without any veteran leadership like Brett Favre to get the troops ready to go out and fight again.

We have top 5 talent in the league all around. The problem is TT has invested much of that talent in oft-injured players ( Harrell, Jenkins, Bigby, Collins ). Also, he traded away a playmaker and replaced him with just a guy. And at the most important position to top it off! That is a sure fire way to obtain mediocrity.

[RashanGary]

You can believe what you want, YOu just said they were exhausted because Favre is gone and I showed you they were not, now you say something completely different (when all real arguements fail it's always back to the defense and S/T's being emotionally demoralized iwthout Favre). Are we really having a debate or are you just there pounding that same little drum in a way that will make you feel better about yourself. For that matter, why attribuitng everything to Favre makes you feel good about yourself is also beyond me. That is a conversation for you and your psychiatrist that will probably lead to your father, abandonment syndrom and Brett being an emotional crutch for you. Let it go, Partial. I just toasted yoru arguement and you filled a new one in to make yourself feel better. Notice it, because it's embassing.

[sheepshead]

You're making a lot of assumptions and lots of blanket statements. Hard to comment on the whole idea. It just isn't plausible.

[MJZiggy]

The problem is NOT the depth of the team. We're as deep and talented as anybody. It's our league worst offense on 3rd down, which is a direct result of our poor quarterback play, which leads to the defense being the field more, which leads to exhaustion, and which leads to them not being able to stop the run.

Duh.


What was the defenses problem in the first half of hte Saints game where our offense had the ball for 18:30 to their 11:30 yet the Saints scored on every drive, while we were fresh. Then came back in the 2nd half, having only been on the field for 11:30 in the first and again let teh Saints score just about every time. Did they punt at all?

If you want to believe this, you're just ignoring reality, Partial. Losing Favre is a part of our problem, but the defensive problems have very little to do with that. As of right now we're 11th in time of possession on offense and 15th in yards. That takes away the exhaustion excuse from our 22nd ranked defense.

The Packers are what they are, an average team with a slightly above average offense and slightly below average defense, not the other way around.

The Saints are a potent offense that was on fire. They would have done that against any team.

Time of posession isn't everything. Demoralizing drives suck the wind right out of our teams sails. Especially without any veteran leadership like Brett Favre to get the troops ready to go out and fight again.

We have top 5 talent in the league all around. The problem is TT has invested much of that talent in oft-injured players ( Harrell, Jenkins, Bigby, Collins ). Also, he traded away a playmaker and replaced him with just a guy. And at the most important position to top it off! That is a sure fire way to obtain mediocrity.

Go look up the score from the last time the Favre exhibited his leadership in M&T Stadium. I'll save you the trouble. He got his ass blown out. Favre's damn good. He's not god and the fact that he's having a good season on another team has no bearing on OUR team. Last time he worked behind a porous line there were folks around here wanting his replacement. I wonder if you were one of them, P. Remember?

[Partial]

The problem is NOT the depth of the team. We're as deep and talented as anybody. It's our league worst offense on 3rd down, which is a direct result of our poor quarterback play, which leads to the defense being the field more, which leads to exhaustion, and which leads to them not being able to stop the run.

Duh.


What was the defenses problem in the first half of hte Saints game where our offense had the ball for 18:30 to their 11:30 yet the Saints scored on every drive, while we were fresh. Then came back in the 2nd half, having only been on the field for 11:30 in the first and again let teh Saints score just about every time. Did they punt at all?

If you want to believe this, you're just ignoring reality, Partial. Losing Favre is a part of our problem, but the defensive problems have very little to do with that. As of right now we're 11th in time of possession on offense and 15th in yards. That takes away the exhaustion excuse from our 22nd ranked defense.

The Packers are what they are, an average team with a slightly above average offense and slightly below average defense, not the other way around.

The Saints are a potent offense that was on fire. They would have done that against any team.

Time of posession isn't everything. Demoralizing drives suck the wind right out of our teams sails. Especially without any veteran leadership like Brett Favre to get the troops ready to go out and fight again.

We have top 5 talent in the league all around. The problem is TT has invested much of that talent in oft-injured players ( Harrell, Jenkins, Bigby, Collins ). Also, he traded away a playmaker and replaced him with just a guy. And at the most important position to top it off! That is a sure fire way to obtain mediocrity.

Go look up the score from the last time the Favre exhibited his leadership in M&T Stadium. I'll save you the trouble. He got his ass blown out. Favre's damn good. He's not god and the fact that he's having a good season on another team has no bearing on OUR team. Last time he worked behind a porous line there were folks around here wanting his replacement. I wonder if you were one of them, P. Remember?

When are people going to stop using our veteran offense line as an excuse? I'm pretty sure that any of the top 10 qbs in the league take this team deep into the playoffs.

[DonHutson]

EVERYBODY is replacable.

As for the list in the first post... sure, there are better players in the league than most of those guys (I'd argue Blackmon is not easily replacable - he could very well be the NFC's Pro Bowl return man this year). But you could take any team and make a similar list with the bottom half of their depth chart.

[RashanGary]

EVERYBODY is replacable.

As for the list in the first post... sure, there are better players in the league than most of those guys (I'd argue Blackmon is not easily replacable - he could very well be the NFC's Pro Bowl return man this year). But you could take any team and make a similar list with the bottom half of their depth chart.

Right, and it's not really a knock on our guys as much as it is an eye opener that if we have guys worth drafting at each position it should be pretty easy for them to stick and if they're really good they should eventually make thier way on the field and make this team better on Sundays.

[Partial]

I'm just saying...

last year everyone thought this team was scary deep and talented with an up and coming offensive line that played very well down the stretch.

Then, we replace the 2nd best player in football with the ~200th best player in football, and all of a sudden our depth sucks, and our offensive line is horrendous!

[sheepshead]

The problem is NOT the depth of the team. We're as deep and talented as anybody. It's our league worst offense on 3rd down, which is a direct result of our poor quarterback play, which leads to the defense being the field more, which leads to exhaustion, and which leads to them not being able to stop the run.

Duh.


What was the defenses problem in the first half of hte Saints game where our offense had the ball for 18:30 to their 11:30 yet the Saints scored on every drive, while we were fresh. Then came back in the 2nd half, having only been on the field for 11:30 in the first and again let teh Saints score just about every time. Did they punt at all?

If you want to believe this, you're just ignoring reality, Partial. Losing Favre is a part of our problem, but the defensive problems have very little to do with that. As of right now we're 11th in time of possession on offense and 15th in yards. That takes away the exhaustion excuse from our 22nd ranked defense.

The Packers are what they are, an average team with a slightly above average offense and slightly below average defense, not the other way around.

The Saints are a potent offense that was on fire. They would have done that against any team.

Time of posession isn't everything. Demoralizing drives suck the wind right out of our teams sails. Especially without any veteran leadership like Brett Favre to get the troops ready to go out and fight again.

We have top 5 talent in the league all around. The problem is TT has invested much of that talent in oft-injured players ( Harrell, Jenkins, Bigby, Collins ). Also, he traded away a playmaker and replaced him with just a guy. And at the most important position to top it off! That is a sure fire way to obtain mediocrity.

Go look up the score from the last time the Favre exhibited his leadership in M&T Stadium. I'll save you the trouble. He got his ass blown out. Favre's damn good. He's not god and the fact that he's having a good season on another team has no bearing on OUR team. Last time he worked behind a porous line there were folks around here wanting his replacement. I wonder if you were one of them, P. Remember?

When are people going to stop using our veteran offense line as an excuse? I'm pretty sure that any of the top 10 qbs in the league take this team deep into the playoffs.

we have one.

[sheepshead]

EVERYBODY is replacable.

As for the list in the first post... sure, there are better players in the league than most of those guys (I'd argue Blackmon is not easily replacable - he could very well be the NFC's Pro Bowl return man this year). But you could take any team and make a similar list with the bottom half of their depth chart.

yup

[Bretsky]

The problem is NOT the depth of the team. We're as deep and talented as anybody. It's our league worst offense on 3rd down, which is a direct result of our poor quarterback play, which leads to the defense being the field more, which leads to exhaustion, and which leads to them not being able to stop the run.

Duh.


What was the defenses problem in the first half of hte Saints game where our offense had the ball for 18:30 to their 11:30 yet the Saints scored on every drive, while we were fresh. Then came back in the 2nd half, having only been on the field for 11:30 in the first and again let teh Saints score just about every time. Did they punt at all?

If you want to believe this, you're just ignoring reality, Partial. Losing Favre is a part of our problem, but the defensive problems have very little to do with that. As of right now we're 11th in time of possession on offense and 15th in yards. That takes away the exhaustion excuse from our 22nd ranked defense.

The Packers are what they are, an average team with a slightly above average offense and slightly below average defense, not the other way around.

The Saints are a potent offense that was on fire. They would have done that against any team.

Time of posession isn't everything. Demoralizing drives suck the wind right out of our teams sails. Especially without any veteran leadership like Brett Favre to get the troops ready to go out and fight again.

We have top 5 talent in the league all around. The problem is TT has invested much of that talent in oft-injured players ( Harrell, Jenkins, Bigby, Collins ). Also, he traded away a playmaker and replaced him with just a guy. And at the most important position to top it off! That is a sure fire way to obtain mediocrity.

Go look up the score from the last time the Favre exhibited his leadership in M&T Stadium. I'll save you the trouble. He got his ass blown out. Favre's damn good. He's not god and the fact that he's having a good season on another team has no bearing on OUR team. Last time he worked behind a porous line there were folks around here wanting his replacement. I wonder if you were one of them, P. Remember?


Not many were asking for his replacement after the 4-12 season and the ones that were lacked a whole lot of understanding

[RashanGary]

DP

[Fritz]

It's funny - I was thinking this morning of the list of guys I'd like to see replaced on next season's roster.

Number one on my list and in your heart: Derrick Frost.

Also -

Jason Hunter
Kenny Pettway
Mike Montgomery
Jarrett Bush
Charlie Peprah

Tory Humnphrey (sorry, I know he's a nice guy)

Maybe Chad Clifton

And, finally, I think I'm off the Brady Poppinga bandwagon. I think a young, fast linebacker who can tackle and cover, at least a little, would be good. Popp is supposed to specialize in stopping the run but I've seen too many plays in which he's gotten to the ball carrier early and whiffed on the tackle. I think he's eminently replaceable.

[Bretsky]

It's funny - I was thinking this morning of the list of guys I'd like to see replaced on next season's roster.

Number one on my list and in your heart: Derrick Frost.

Also -

Jason Hunter
Kenny Pettway
Mike Montgomery
Jarrett Bush
Charlie Peprah

Tory Humnphrey (sorry, I know he's a nice guy)

Maybe Chad Clifton

And, finally, I think I'm off the Brady Poppinga bandwagon. I think a young, fast linebacker who can tackle and cover, at least a little, would be good. Popp is supposed to specialize in stopping the run but I've seen too many plays in which he's gotten to the ball carrier early and whiffed on the tackle. I think he's eminently replaceable.





VANILLA BOB

[Partial]

Jason Hunter is a solid 5th DE. He is a burner on special teams and since he bulked up he has become serviceable as a 5th DE.

[RashanGary]

Jason Hunter is a solid 5th DE. He is a burner on special teams and since he bulked up he has become serviceable as a 5th DE.

Yeah, he's kind of a luxury player like Blackmon. He's so good at ST's that you sort of deal with having him at the very back of yoru rotation. The problem is, when you have Montgomery and Pettway in front of him, his weakness is glaring. Monty and Pettway have to go.

[RashanGary]

It's funny - I was thinking this morning of the list of guys I'd like to see replaced on next season's roster.

Number one on my list and in your heart: Derrick Frost.

Also -

Jason Hunter
Kenny Pettway
Mike Montgomery
Jarrett Bush
Charlie Peprah

Tory Humnphrey (sorry, I know he's a nice guy)

Maybe Chad Clifton

And, finally, I think I'm off the Brady Poppinga bandwagon. I think a young, fast linebacker who can tackle and cover, at least a little, would be good. Popp is supposed to specialize in stopping the run but I've seen too many plays in which he's gotten to the ball carrier early and whiffed on the tackle. I think he's eminently replaceable.

I can see reason in all of this. Maybe not Humphrey because he has shown up every time he gets a chance (just doesn't get many) but the others are things I've noticed too. I'm also not sure about Peprah. Never gets a chance but maybe there is a reason for that.

[MJZiggy]

Ya know, if you reject every group of kids that gets drafted, they'll never have a shot a growing into the stud linemen you want them to be. They'll eventually be stud linemen for someone else, though...

[Bretsky]

Ya know, if you reject every group of kids that gets drafted, they'll never have a shot a growing into the stud linemen you want them to be. They'll eventually be stud linemen for someone else, though...


The list Fritz gave are the sub par backups IMO that you want to find upgrades for; I do like Humphrey and would like to see him given more of a chance.

[Fred's Slacks]

Yeah Fritz, I have to say that I am no longer on the Poppinga train either. I expected more improvement then we've seen. The missed takle on Billy Miller last week had my blood boiling. Its one thing to miss on Adrian Peterson but he looked exactly the same trying to tackle Miller. He works hard and has a motor. Unfortunately that has amounted to very little on the field.

I was going to comment on Partials Arod hate but I feel like that's been covered enough and don't want to beat that dead horse any more. I think most realize that Arod has been solid but also has made his share of mistakes, I think they also realize that with or with out Favre they have no SB hopes with an inconsistent OL and no pass rush.

[texaspackerbacker]

The question isn't who is replaceable? It is who needs to be replaced?

The only ones on the original list that I'd really like to see gone are Peprah and maybe Bush. Frost wasn't on that list, but obviously, a lot of high school punters would be an upgrade from him.

Clifton has been mediocre at best; Tauscher is a free agent (isn't he?), and probably isn't good enough to justify the money somebody else will pay him. Popinga hasn't progressed this year the way I hoped he would--I had visions of a Kampman-like leap in performance. I'm not ready to give up on Justin Harrell just yet. Likewise, Finley has way too much potential to give up on in just one season.

As for the draft, I lean toward O Line also, although that is far from a sure, given the fact that it takes time to develop O Linemen, and the fact that we have a bunch of decent young prospects. People can wish all that want for some huge, less mobile guys and the change of scheme that would go with getting that kind, but it ain't happening.

Contrary to the title of the thread, it's more like we really don't have any pressing needs. I wouldn't be surprised if the Packers went after a RB--a smaller speedier type like Steve Slaton. We probably would get some O Line and D Line help, as well as LB, but I doubt Thompson uses a first rounder for those, as the kind of player the Packers seem to like would likely be still available in the 2nd - 4th rounds.

[Tarlam!]

Nick, your posting is getting really interesting since you stopped bashing that ex-QB. Well done and great thread!

Is College the answer at LT? I seem to think he is. It might just be my imagination, but since he's been in GB, he's really put on some muscle! He's intelligent enough and if he can reduce his arrogance into healthy self-confidence that would be great. Also, he played colledge LT and only started playing OG in GB.

Also, we haven't seen too much of Giancomini (sp?) yet. I suspect they are grooming him for RT. From what I recall, they say he's a mauler, but raw. Well, he'll have had a year of picking NFL splinters out of his butt when mini camp starts and only then will we see what we have.

Then there's Sitton and Barbre, two OGs that have had varying levels of praise from the staff that would appear to have a whole lotta upside.

If you ask me, Wells is the guy that's physically too small. I like him, his motor, his heart and his ability to lead the line. I just think his size is an issue.

I think the real depth issues are at DL and LB. It's too bad Hodge is gone.

[wist43]

I cut some slack to Poppinga simply b/c of the scheme... I think he would be better in another system.

As for the original list JH put together... most of those guys are fringe type players and either need to be replaced or simply slotted into their role on ST, ala Blackmon.

Cole and Harrell are rotation guys, but neither is as good as Williams was... Williams pass rush from the interior is sorely missed, we definitely need an inside pass rusher. Jenkins going down, and Williams being booted has exposed these two guys for the fringe players they are. I like Cole better than Harrell though... Harrell is a bust.

Montgomery is simply wasting a roster spot at a position we need help at, same thing with Pettway. Hunter is better than both of those guys.

Bush, Pettway, Lansadah, Frost, Montgomery, Peprah... all of those guys are just taking up space on the roster.

Clifton and Wells both need to be replaced in the starting lineup.

TT will surely bring in another tsunami of players from next years draft though, and will surely push some of these guys off the roster. But unless he finds some differece makers somewhere along the line, we're just spinning our wheels.

[Pugger]

I'm not ready to throw Harrell under the bus. The young man hasn't been on the field enough to know what he can do (but I do agree he was picked too high) and most DT aren't asked to get sacks. They do the dirty work inside and take up blockers. Pettway was a guy we literally picked up off the streets because of all of our D line issues so he won't be around next year unless they like his ST play. Cory Williams was okay but I don't blame TT for not giving him starter/pro-bowl money. Last season when Jolly went down Williams became the starter and his sack total diminished. He is much better coming in in passing situations and you can't give a part timer starter money (KGB shouldn't have been paid like that either!). TT messed up big time when it came to the D line. What was once a position of strength with depth is now a mess and our D is reeling. :doh:

[Patler]

"Could the Packers use help at every position?" - Yes
Can most every NFL team use help at every position - Yes

The bottom players who are the last option off the bench at each positional group (DL, LB, CB, S, OL RB, TE, WR, QB) are pretty much replaceable on every team in the league. Granted, for the Packers it will take a pretty good receiver to displace Martin or Jones, but it could very easily happen. If you can find a future All-Pro he would bump down Nelson a notch, too; would make the receiver corp better, and would smooth the ultimate departure/retirement of Driver or the free-agent flight of Jennings.

A very good player at any position would be a welcomed addition to the roster, just as it would be for any other team in the league.

[bobblehead]

You take more players and you have more chances at stars. Jennings was just a 2nd round pick, one nobody knew of before the draft and oen many complained about. He was just one of many, but he turned out to be a star. Grant was a low key last minute trade that might have been a roster cut. He was just one of many low key moves but turned out to be a star. Kampman the same.

We have a better chance of hitting a star with mroe picks than with less. Look, TT had options to trade back with Harrell but he stuck with the higher pick and that didn't pan out very well.



On a side note, Everette Brown, DE from FSU would be a great pick for our defense. He's a stud. I'm sure he'll move up into the top 10, just so we can't get him.


Maybe TT should move up in round one ? Harell, I don't think, excited many in here.

But along with more depth this team could really use another stud on the defeinsive side. I like the idea of moving up in round one if there is a guy you think can be a star. Of course much will depend on what we do these last four games.

TT has accumulated a ton of picks the past few years. Jennings is clearly a hit. But hard to name any guy from four on who really sticks out so far. Kampman was a Sherman guy; I think he even might have traded up for him but not positive about that.

As far as those 6th and 7th rounders, I'd be fine with TT trading one a year to get a serviceable players. So far none that I can remember seem to be doing much for Green Bay.
Jonny Jolly when not breaking the law is a pretty solid guy for a 6th round pick.

[bobblehead]

I'm just saying...

last year everyone thought this team was scary deep and talented with an up and coming offensive line that played very well down the stretch.

Then, we replace the 2nd best player in football with the ~200th best player in football, and all of a sudden our depth sucks, and our offensive line is horrendous!

dude....the OL has played horrendously. In the early going Grant was runnig into blockers ala Brandon Jackson '07. Now some of the line mess ups could be attributed to a first year starter at QB, but not the ones where he is hit in .9 seconds because Clifon completely whiffed. Not the ones where we made a good first down play and Spitz got called for holding to negate it and back us up, and not the one where Crosby missed a 52 yarder indoors off turf.

Once again I'll admit that we would likely be 7-4 with BF, but he isn't here and we are 5-6 instead. You can threadjack every discussion and lead it back to BF, but it gets really FUCKING OLD!! He retired, then didn't, then did, then wanted his starting job back after missing every offseason activity that the team asked him to attend. It his own fault he is a Jet, and you can accept that or you can whine about it for about 4 more years.

[Fritz]

I don't get to see many Packer games so I'll bow to Partial's nod to Hunter. Same with JH and Humphrey, though if he's all that why can't he beat Lee out? Lee is okay but no world beater.

No one - not one person - seems to want Frost. He's only employed, it seems, because there are no decent out-of-work punters available who can also hold. Shalom to Mr. Frost at the end of the season.

Montgomery seems to be a bit of a stiff. Bush - just a guy. Peprah - maybe too small or something, but a nice special teamer, maybe? But my thing is if he's only good on ST, can you draft someone with more potential in a "regular" position who can also excel on ST in the meantime?

And yes, I'm off the Poppy train. It's those missed tackles that kill me. Maybe Danny Lasagna will improve enough to start next year, if he's anything like the Packers seem to be excited about.