Rodgers Is Carrying This Team

[Chevelle2]

Some interesting numbers I found, which hopefully can spark some discussion.

1) Rodgers, is tied for first in the NFL, with Brees and Warner, with 24 total touchdowns

2) Rodgers is on pace to have:

More passing yards

More rushing yards

More passing touchdowns

More rushing touchdowns

Less interceptions



Than the 07 Favre

3) His offense is putting up 27.2 ppg. More than all of Favre's offenses, save two seasons.


Pretty remarkable that a 24 year old 1st year starter is doing such big things right now. Shame the defense can't help him out.

[channtheman]

I know early in the year we had some help from the defense and ST scoring points but regardless of that, it is impressive what Rodgers is doing this year. He is NOT the reason we are losing. Piss poor play of the defense and the crappy ST play is the reason right now.

[RashanGary]

He's doing really well, but this thread will do nothing more than stir shit and make the people who miss and love Favre more pissed and more likely to want to stab back at Rodgers again and again.


None of this shit is fair to Favre who had a HOF career and doesn't deserve to be compared to a kid that has accomplished nothing yet. And the comparisons are made unfairly by not taking into accoutn circumstance (like the really, really good offense Rodgers inherited)

None of this shit is fair to Rodgers who's having a really good season and does not deserve the vitriol that comes at him from the Favre faithfull who want to compare him negatively against the HOF Favre without taking into account circumstance (like a horrible defensive line that is crumbling in the 4th quarter, only being 24 years old starting his first season and a really tough schedule)

Honestly, I'm sick of the comparisions. They're freaking useless and almost all of them have a stupid f'in agenda that in no way resembles a search for truth. More like a search for scapegoats or an attemt to belittle. That's it.

[Joemailman]

The scoring average is a bit skewed because the Packers' D/ST have scored 8 TD's, far more than most teams. In reality, the Packers offense has produced an average of 20 PPG. Rodgers has played well, but the Packers were probably a slightly better offense with Favre in 2007 than with Rodgers in 2008. That said, I have no problem with the decision to go with Rodgers who has justified the confidence the Packers showed in him. He has a bright future.

[]{ilr]3]

He's doing really well, but this thread will do nothing more than stir shit and make the people who miss and love Favre more pissed and more likely to want to stab back at Rodgers again and again.


None of this shit is fair to Favre who had a HOF career and doesn't deserve to be compared to a kid that has accomplished nothing yet. And the comparisons are made unfairly by not taking into accoutn circumstance (like the really, really good offense Rodgers inherited)

None of this shit is fair to Rodgers who's having a really good season and does not deserve the vitriol that comes at him from the Favre faithfull who want to compare him negatively against the HOF Favre without taking into account circumstance (like a horrible defensive line that is crumbling in the 4th quarter, only being 24 years old starting his first season and a really tough schedule)

Honestly, I'm sick of the comparisions. They're freaking useless and almost all of them have a stupid f'in agenda that in no way resembles a search for truth. More like a search for scapegoats or an attemt to belittle. That's it.

I am sick of it too, but there is far less of this point of view so I guess I dont mind it being said. The only reason the Favre lovers are not making 35 post about what a mistake is was to not shit can Rodgers and bring him back is because the Jets lost today.

[Noodle]

I won't stir shit.

Interesting perspective, as far as stats go. ARod is clearly having a terrific first year, and I have to think the game will slow down for him and he will continue to improve.

The stat he still does not have is 4th quarter comeback victories. He'll get some, eventually, but he still has not pulled that off yet.

[oregonpackfan]

This situation that Rodgers is in illustrates the burden that any young quarterback faces when he replaces a legendary quarterback. He is continually compared to his predecessor, sometimes for good, usually for bad.

IMO, Rodgers is doing very well as a first year starter. Has he made mistakes? Absolutely he has! Overall, he is meeting and/or exceeding expectations.

[GrnBay007]

How exactly is it that a QB is "carrying" a team that is 5-7?

hmm....GB's WR's are junk? I don't think so.

As far as the comparisons, whatever. There is no way to truly compare and get an objective answer. As JH said, it's stirring shit.

Rodgers is playing well.

Good post JH.

[Noodle]

The notion of one player carrying a team, in a game like football, is really absurd.

Coaches have to call good plays with creative formations.

The C has to make proper line calls, and the line has to block.

Backs have to pick up blitzers or sell the play fake.

Receivers have to run precise routes, make catches, and not punk out despite the prospect of violent collision.

The QB has to be money.

And they have to do it over and over and over again.

Then there comes the time when the D is on the field . . .

[dissident94]

Good points if they were true. Rodgers going into the game was on pace to throw- for -----

3780 yrds. Lets see Favre threw for well over 4,000 last year.

Going into the game Rodgers was on pace to throw for-----

25 tds Favre threw for what 27-28 last year. 2 more today so I still think Rodgers is on pace for about the same.



Rodgers is having a good year. The big difference is the defense, special teams. And Rodgers not coming through at the end. Lets not forget about some of the games Favre played well last year at the end of games. Except one major one I guess.

Lets not rewrite history to say Favre played like shit or something last year. He had a great year. His number tailed off at the end when it got cold and he sat out most of Detroit. Rodgers is not having as good of a year.

[dissident94]

Sorry 3 tds today. Rodgers is on pace to throw for 26.6 tds. Nope Favre still had more.

Get your numbers right

and adding into todays game he is now on pace to throw for 3862 yrds

Favre had 4100 yrds and 28 tds.


Lets see how Favre did last year through his first 12 games

3,600 yds averaging over 300 yrds a game
21 tds


Rodgers
2897 yrds
20 tds

[Tony Oday]

Favre had a great year last year and it helped that we got the bounces last year too.

AR is having a fantastic year and I like the mobility. Without it, say with Favre, I think Favre may be dead behind this line!

[dissident94]

I must have missed the day they changed the line from last year.

[pbmax]

The easy answer to how you can carry a 5-7 team is when it would be 2-10 without you :lol:

But while Chevelle might be stirring, it bears mentioning that the offense is finally doing what we wanted it to do since the beginning of the season. Finish drives and take time off the clock. Whether its Rodgers or Favre, is almost immaterial, the O has stepped up.

If we had last year's D playing for this team, we wouldn't be talking about Rodgers carrying it nor would we be worried about making the playoffs.

[pbmax]

I must have missed the day they changed the line from last year.
There were injuries in both seasons, affecting tackles and the center this year, but the level of play by the tackles has dipped, especially in pass protection. Just because the depth chart looks the same doesn't mean they are playing the same way.

[dissident94]

The easy answer to how you can carry a 5-7 team is when it would be 2-10 without you :lol:

But while Chevelle might be stirring, it bears mentioning that the offense is finally doing what we wanted it to do since the beginning of the season. Finish drives and take time off the clock. Whether its Rodgers or Favre, is almost immaterial, the O has stepped up.

If we had last year's D playing for this team, we wouldn't be talking about Rodgers carrying it nor would we be worried about making the playoffs.

True. Rodgers is playing good enough to win.

[sheepshead]

This situation that Rodgers is in illustrates the burden that any young quarterback faces when he replaces a legendary quarterback. He is continually compared to his predecessor, sometimes for good, usually for bad.

IMO, Rodgers is doing very well as a first year starter. Has he made mistakes? Absolutely he has! Overall, he is meeting and/or exceeding expectations.

I agree with this and would take it one step further: Has he lost us a game this year?

How many games did Brett loose last year (arguably of course). Many blame him for the last one. Point is, we have a franchise quarterback once again and very few teams can say that.

[dissident94]

I would say Tampa he may have lost. A couple other games he played well but just couldn't finish.

Rodgers is playing well. He has looked really good for a first year QB.

But you shouldn't make up numbers to show he is better than Favre or Favre from last year. Favre has almost better numbers in every category last year besides ints and rushing tds. Thats the only point I was making in this post.

[Deputy Nutz]

How many games has Rodgers won us this year? He should have won us the game last afternoon, but his team and coach cost the Packers the victory, although he did cough up the ball with 90 seconds left with two timeouts.

Anyways, this season isn't about Rodger Vs Favre like I thought it would be. Rodgers has done everything expect and actually more. Without Favre as a whole identity for this franchise, this team has reverted back to what it is, and average football team in the NFL. This goes on the shoulders of Thompson and McCarthy, and that goes with throwing the whole Favre argument out the window. Sure I would rather have the ball in Favre's hands with the game in the balance, then maybe McCarthy doesn't run a fullback dive on 3rd and goal, but who really knows. The defensive line is shit, the offensive line played well the last couple of weeks, but over all they have performed less than average, even though guys like Colledge and Spitz have finally started playing well.

McCarthy certainly isn't a 13-3 coach at this point, to me I think he is closer to that 8-8 coach of 2006 at the moment.

[sharpe1027]

Without Favre as a whole identity for this franchise, this team has reverted back to what it is, and average football team in the NFL. This goes on the shoulders of Thompson and McCarthy, and that goes with throwing the whole Favre argument out the window.

Loosing the whole identity of the franchise? Maybe if you were born in 1992.

The difference between this year and last year begins and ends with the defense and the special teams. I don't buy your argument that Favre's presence caused the entire defense and special teams to play better. That Favre worked magic by raising an average football team to greatness by improving their defense and special teams using as series of ass snaps with a towel in the locker room and by making fart jokes. :roll:

[dissident94]

Without Favre as a whole identity for this franchise, this team has reverted back to what it is, and average football team in the NFL. This goes on the shoulders of Thompson and McCarthy, and that goes with throwing the whole Favre argument out the window.

Loosing the whole identity of the franchise? Maybe if you were born in 1992.

The difference between this year and last year begins and ends with the defense and the special teams. I don't buy your argument that Favre's presence caused the entire defense and special teams to play better. That Favre worked magic by raising an average football team to greatness by improving their defense and special teams using as series of ass snaps with a towel in the locker room and by making fart jokes. :roll:


Then you don't understand sports. A couple special players can turn around a franchise, especially QB. He is not the only reason we won for 16 years, but he is the main one. Just like Jordan wasn't the only reason Chicago won but he is the main one.

Look at teams like

Denver
Miami
San fran even after Young

All teams that couldn't replace their QB and havne't been the same since.

Great players make players around them look better. It happens in all sports and at all levels.

[LL2]

Rodgers is doing very well for a first year starter. So is Matt Ryan and a few other first year starters. I agree Rodgers isn’t the reason they are 5-7. For many folks though they will not give Rodgers a break until he wins a SB.

[bobblehead]

Without Favre as a whole identity for this franchise, this team has reverted back to what it is, and average football team in the NFL. This goes on the shoulders of Thompson and McCarthy, and that goes with throwing the whole Favre argument out the window.

Loosing the whole identity of the franchise? Maybe if you were born in 1992.

The difference between this year and last year begins and ends with the defense and the special teams. I don't buy your argument that Favre's presence caused the entire defense and special teams to play better. That Favre worked magic by raising an average football team to greatness by improving their defense and special teams using as series of ass snaps with a towel in the locker room and by making fart jokes. :roll:


Then you don't understand sports. A couple special players can turn around a franchise, especially QB. He is not the only reason we won for 16 years, but he is the main one. Just like Jordan wasn't the only reason Chicago won but he is the main one.

Look at teams like

Denver
Miami
San fran even after Young

All teams that couldn't replace their QB and havne't been the same since.

Great players make players around them look better. It happens in all sports and at all levels.

So the year we were 4-12 with Favre...what happened there? Look, BF was/is great. He can make average recievers look better. He might even make an average line look a bit better. But if you are seriously arguing that he made Kampman or Woodson better you gotta be fricking kidding me. The guys on our D are professionals, Woodson would not have recovered from the push off if BF were our QB. Crosby would not have split the uprights for ole bretsky. I think this whole thread is a fucking waste of time on both sides, but christ when you try and tell me brett would have willed the defense to slow down Brees I just want to start flaming.

[Partial]

Well, the proof is in the pudding. Numerous players in their time in GB, and now numerous Jets have said that with BF around they want to play better and harder. They don't want to let the man down.

We haven't heard anything of the sort since he left. In fact, its quite apparent watching the team that the effort just isn't their. Gone are last years gang tackles, high fives, and desire to be the best.

So, you tell me. Did everyone fall off over night? Or did they stop playing as hard?

Now, for the subject at hand, that is a load of bull that Aaron is carrying the team. Yesterday he did, I will agree, but that was the first and only time this year. He has been middle of the road at best the rest of the year. I really don't care how many touchdowns he has, because that is a biproduct of teams not respecting our goal line running game.

So far, he has had 6 good games, and we've won 5 of them. He's had 5 games where I felt the loss fell on his shoulders, and then there were two where he was not really a factor either way.

Currently we are dead last in the NFL in 3rd down and long situations. Consequently, this is what we're in most of the time due to the defense bringing up 8 guys since they don't respect A-Rod. Is this carrying a team on your shoulders? You tell me.

Yesterday was the first time Rodgers used all his weapons effectively and used the middle of the field. Whether this is a biproduct of MM opening up the offense, or Rodgers finally feeling comfortable, I know not. If he continues to play like yesterday, then yes, he will be capable of carrying a team on his shoulders.

[dissident94]

Rodgers is doing very well for a first year starter. So is Matt Ryan and a few other first year starters. I agree Rodgers isn’t the reason they are 5-7. For many folks though they will not give Rodgers a break until he wins a SB.


This isn't about Rodgers. He is playing really well. This is about people who try to discredit what Favre meant to this franchise. And to make up crap saying Rodgers is playing better than Favre did last year.

I root for Rodgers. Do I think we would have more wins with Brett, yes. But that doesn't matter.

[pbmax]

Well, the proof is in the pudding. Numerous players in their time in GB, and now numerous Jets have said that with BF around they want to play better and harder. They don't want to let the man down.

We haven't heard anything of the sort since he left. In fact, its quite apparent watching the team that the effort just isn't their. Gone are last years gang tackles, high fives, and desire to be the best.

So, you tell me. Did everyone fall off over night? Or did they stop playing as hard?
Have you added mind reader to your list of abilities? Desire to be the best is gone? Really?

How about, at 5-7, its hard to be as confident as you were when you were 10-2 last year?

Any mope can say they don't want to let the old man down. Its easy player-press babble. Like announcers telling us how much fun Favre is having out there. Mindless and meaningless.

And you might have missed it, but his O Line seem to have been pretty impressed by Rodgers all year, with quotes about his toughness and play starting around the time of the shoulder injury. Tauscher had another quote like that this week.

[dissident94]

Without Favre as a whole identity for this franchise, this team has reverted back to what it is, and average football team in the NFL. This goes on the shoulders of Thompson and McCarthy, and that goes with throwing the whole Favre argument out the window.

Loosing the whole identity of the franchise? Maybe if you were born in 1992.

The difference between this year and last year begins and ends with the defense and the special teams. I don't buy your argument that Favre's presence caused the entire defense and special teams to play better. That Favre worked magic by raising an average football team to greatness by improving their defense and special teams using as series of ass snaps with a towel in the locker room and by making fart jokes. :roll:


Then you don't understand sports. A couple special players can turn around a franchise, especially QB. He is not the only reason we won for 16 years, but he is the main one. Just like Jordan wasn't the only reason Chicago won but he is the main one.

Look at teams like

Denver
Miami
San fran even after Young

All teams that couldn't replace their QB and havne't been the same since.

Great players make players around them look better. It happens in all sports and at all levels.

So the year we were 4-12 with Favre...what happened there? Look, BF was/is great. He can make average recievers look better. He might even make an average line look a bit better. But if you are seriously arguing that he made Kampman or Woodson better you gotta be fricking kidding me. The guys on our D are professionals, Woodson would not have recovered from the push off if BF were our QB. Crosby would not have split the uprights for ole bretsky. I think this whole thread is a fucking waste of time on both sides, but christ when you try and tell me brett would have willed the defense to slow down Brees I just want to start flaming.


Well one year at 4-12 doesn't take away the other 14-15 years of winning. This isn't about all that.

Someone claims Rodgers is carrying the team and putting up historical numbers and he isn't.

I would say Rodgers is one of the lone bright spots. But lets not annoint the guy until he actually wins us a few games. He shows great skill. But hasn't shown the ability to lift his team.

[pbmax]

Currently we are dead last in the NFL in 3rd down and long situations. Consequently, this is what we're in most of the time due to the defense bringing up 8 guys since they don't respect A-Rod. Is this carrying a team on your shoulders? You tell me.
Now you have a point here. The Packers, especially early this season, seemed unable to recover from their own mistakes on offense. One holding penalty, 1st and 20 and you could just feel the punt coming. And Rodgers does not make something out of nothing like Favre can. In fact, when its late and he rolls right, I am hoping he throws it out of bounds.

But Rodgers yards per attempt is still pretty high. I think this is partly the first year starter, but also the coach. McCarthy's constant refrain is putting yourself in better yardage/down situations and winning field position. He is playing the odds. His system and Rodgers exposure so far leaves them with a shortage of viable experience in third and long. Rodgers will learn. I hope McCarthy gives him the freedom (or Rodgers just takes it) to forget the checkdown in some of these situations.

And there are few games where teams stuck eight in a box against us. They are playing pass first, esp in longer yardages. They fear the passing game more than our running game.

[pbmax]

I really don't care how many touchdowns he has, because that is a biproduct of teams not respecting our goal line running game.
What is the inverse of logical? :lol:

If teams have no respect for our goal to go running game, it stands to reason they are defending the pass. More credit to Rodgers for his TDs. You should care more.

And if your assertion was actually true, then we would be having better than expected success running for TDs. That does not seem to be happening.

[MadtownPacker]

Of course chevelle is trying to stir up shit with this thread. If not he would have just said ARod is carrying this team and not even brought up Favre. No surprise since he really dont give a damn about this forum.

As for the topic, which actually is a good one, I have to say that on offense Rodgers has carried the team in about half or more of the game. Some where wins, some where losses but he has gone down swinging and he gets big props for that. Cant say the whole season or the team because the defense has had games where it shined against weak passing games. Throw in the fact Grant has been about as consistent as Jello and the burden of scoring has been mostly on Rodgers.

[PackerBlues]

Rogers is carrying the Packers? You talkin about the same Packers who are in 3rd place in the NFC North? :roll:

Prior to the start of this season, most in these forums argued that there would be no drop off in talent after replacing Favre with Rogers.

In fact, most in these forums claimed that the team would only be better with all of the "improvements" that Thompson made in the off-season.

Looks to me, like most in these forums were wrong! Yes, Rogers does have some nice stats this season, all except the most important stat of them all, the number of wins. But hey, at least Rogers managed to carry the team above the Lions in that stat. :roll:

[sharpe1027]

Then you don't understand sports. A couple special players can turn around a franchise, especially QB. He is not the only reason we won for 16 years, but he is the main one. Just like Jordan wasn't the only reason Chicago won but he is the main one.

Look at teams like

Denver
Miami
San fran even after Young

All teams that couldn't replace their QB and havne't been the same since.

Great players make players around them look better. It happens in all sports and at all levels.

If you generalize to turning a franchise around, I generally agree. But you haven't convinced me that the difference this year is Favre.

Sure Jordan made other players better, he was on the court with them. He drew the attention of the entire other team's defense and distributed the ball to Pippen and others to give them easy scores. Similarly, Favre made his WRs and OL better with his play. His laser strikes between defenders and ability to feel the pressure were legendary. Maybe I just missed all the times he lined up at middle linebacker?

Quite frankly, to suggest that the defense and special teams failures are due to the absence of Favre tells me that you don't understand sports.

[dissident94]

Then you don't understand sports. A couple special players can turn around a franchise, especially QB. He is not the only reason we won for 16 years, but he is the main one. Just like Jordan wasn't the only reason Chicago won but he is the main one.

Look at teams like

Denver
Miami
San fran even after Young

All teams that couldn't replace their QB and havne't been the same since.

Great players make players around them look better. It happens in all sports and at all levels.

If you generalize to turning a franchise around, I generally agree. But you haven't convinced me that the difference this year is Favre.

Sure Jordan made other players better, he was on the court with them. He drew the attention of the entire other team's defense and distributed the ball to Pippen and others to give them easy scores. Similarly, Favre made his WRs and OL better with his play. His laser strikes between defenders and ability to feel the pressure were legendary. Maybe I just missed all the times he lined up at middle linebacker?

Quite frankly, to suggest that the defense and special teams failures are due to the absence of Favre tells me that you don't understand sports.


Here is a quote from Leon Washington

"When you have Brett Favre coming into the huddle, it makes everybody else in the huddle step their games up," said Leon Washington, who electrified that same sideline with his 92-yard kickoff return for a TD in the second quarter. "We're fortunate to have a guy like that leading us."


Here is a quote frome a DEFENSIVE PLAYER for the JETS

He doesn't just improve the offense," the second-year cornerback said yesterday after watching Favre in action in his second day of practice with the Jets. "He brings us up, too, because we're going up against a guy that can tear a defense apart."

Favre doesn't have the arm he once did and is still only in the early stages of learning the Jets offense, but he has shown glimpses of what he's capable of. Revis and his fellow members of the secondary want to keep them to just that: glimpses.

"We have to try and outplay him," Revis said. "If we can do that, we'll definitely be better off on Sundays."

But they still figure to be in for some tough moments during practice.

"It adds extra pressure on the DBs down the field," coach Eric Mangini said. "In terms of the corners and safeties, you'd better get back and have the correct depth because the margin for error is pretty small."

Safety Kerry RhodesKerry Rhodes has seen Favre in action during games before and has seen how dangerous he is.

"You can't make any mistakes," Rhodes said. "You slip, he's getting the ball there quick. It could be a disaster."

Still, they realize that it's better to have those problems against a teammate during the week rather than versus an opponent during a game.

"I'm just happy to have him on my team," Revis said. "You see some of the balls he throws and you think, 'Wow, how'd he get it in there?' Then you see it's one of your teammates who caught it and that makes you feel better."

[Ballboy]

This post kinda goes with what I was feeling watching Rodgers yesterday. I would disagree with the heading, I DON't think he carries this team. At this point, he doesn't have "it" to be that special player. He is, at least at this point a GAME MANAGER. He will not make the big mistake, and he will not make that "WOW" player on a regular basis. He uses the tools he has been given, and uses them VERY well, which is why his stats are what they are.

Can he be that "it" player.......sure, i guess, can't anyone?

[PackerBlues]

Then you don't understand sports. A couple special players can turn around a franchise, especially QB. He is not the only reason we won for 16 years, but he is the main one. Just like Jordan wasn't the only reason Chicago won but he is the main one.

Look at teams like

Denver
Miami
San fran even after Young

All teams that couldn't replace their QB and havne't been the same since.

Great players make players around them look better. It happens in all sports and at all levels.

If you generalize to turning a franchise around, I generally agree. But you haven't convinced me that the difference this year is Favre.

Sure Jordan made other players better, he was on the court with them. He drew the attention of the entire other team's defense and distributed the ball to Pippen and others to give them easy scores. Similarly, Favre made his WRs and OL better with his play. His laser strikes between defenders and ability to feel the pressure were legendary. Maybe I just missed all the times he lined up at middle linebacker?

Quite frankly, to suggest that the defense and special teams failures are due to the absence of Favre tells me that you don't understand sports.


Here is a quote from Leon Washington

"When you have Brett Favre coming into the huddle, it makes everybody else in the huddle step their games up," said Leon Washington, who electrified that same sideline with his 92-yard kickoff return for a TD in the second quarter. "We're fortunate to have a guy like that leading us."


Here is a quote frome a DEFENSIVE PLAYER for the JETS

He doesn't just improve the offense," the second-year cornerback said yesterday after watching Favre in action in his second day of practice with the Jets. "He brings us up, too, because we're going up against a guy that can tear a defense apart."

Favre doesn't have the arm he once did and is still only in the early stages of learning the Jets offense, but he has shown glimpses of what he's capable of. Revis and his fellow members of the secondary want to keep them to just that: glimpses.

"We have to try and outplay him," Revis said. "If we can do that, we'll definitely be better off on Sundays."

But they still figure to be in for some tough moments during practice.

"It adds extra pressure on the DBs down the field," coach Eric Mangini said. "In terms of the corners and safeties, you'd better get back and have the correct depth because the margin for error is pretty small."

Safety Kerry RhodesKerry Rhodes has seen Favre in action during games before and has seen how dangerous he is.

"You can't make any mistakes," Rhodes said. "You slip, he's getting the ball there quick. It could be a disaster."

Still, they realize that it's better to have those problems against a teammate during the week rather than versus an opponent during a game.

"I'm just happy to have him on my team," Revis said. "You see some of the balls he throws and you think, 'Wow, how'd he get it in there?' Then you see it's one of your teammates who caught it and that makes you feel better."

Excellent post Dissident94!!!!!

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not a big believer in QBs making their defenses better. If they did, then Peyton Manning wouldn't have had a below average defense almost every year of his career. Favre didn't make the 1996 defense great in practice--just like he didn't make the 2004 defense horrible.

[sharpe1027]

Here is a quote from Leon Washington

"When you have Brett Favre coming into the huddle, it makes everybody else in the huddle step their games up," said Leon Washington, who electrified that same sideline with his 92-yard kickoff return for a TD in the second quarter. "We're fortunate to have a guy like that leading us."


Here is a quote frome a DEFENSIVE PLAYER for the JETS

He doesn't just improve the offense," the second-year cornerback said yesterday after watching Favre in action in his second day of practice with the Jets. "He brings us up, too, because we're going up against a guy that can tear a defense apart."

Favre doesn't have the arm he once did and is still only in the early stages of learning the Jets offense, but he has shown glimpses of what he's capable of. Revis and his fellow members of the secondary want to keep them to just that: glimpses.

"We have to try and outplay him," Revis said. "If we can do that, we'll definitely be better off on Sundays."

But they still figure to be in for some tough moments during practice.

"It adds extra pressure on the DBs down the field," coach Eric Mangini said. "In terms of the corners and safeties, you'd better get back and have the correct depth because the margin for error is pretty small."

Safety Kerry RhodesKerry Rhodes has seen Favre in action during games before and has seen how dangerous he is.

"You can't make any mistakes," Rhodes said. "You slip, he's getting the ball there quick. It could be a disaster."

Still, they realize that it's better to have those problems against a teammate during the week rather than versus an opponent during a game.

"I'm just happy to have him on my team," Revis said. "You see some of the balls he throws and you think, 'Wow, how'd he get it in there?' Then you see it's one of your teammates who caught it and that makes you feel better."

You can always find quotes like these. Notice how they never show the question that prompted the quote? Leading questions can get just about any quote a reporter wants. What do you expect a player or coach to say when a reporter asks them if Favre helps them, defense or otherwise? I expect them to come up with some reason that he does. What do you expect?

Our pass coverage is the best it has been since I can remember (except for Brees and Co.). Using your logic it would seem that the improvement in our coverage would suggest that Rodgers is better than Favre. I find that very unlikely.

So the logic must be that the Packer's defense sucks this year against the run because Favre isn't there to testing them with the pass? I guess that the pass rush is non-existant because Favre isn't testing it in practice? The Packer's special teams suck this year because Favre isn't coaxing the most out of them?

I just don't see Favre as responsible for our poor defense and ST. If I did, I would be hypocritical because I defended Favre in the past by blaming our defense and special teams for losses. Do you think that it was Favre's fault when our defense played poorly several years ago? Doubtful. Favre shouldn't get blamed for poor defense and he shouldn't get credit for good defense.

[Bossman641]

Here is a quote from Leon Washington

"When you have Brett Favre coming into the huddle, it makes everybody else in the huddle step their games up," said Leon Washington, who electrified that same sideline with his 92-yard kickoff return for a TD in the second quarter. "We're fortunate to have a guy like that leading us."


Here is a quote frome a DEFENSIVE PLAYER for the JETS

He doesn't just improve the offense," the second-year cornerback said yesterday after watching Favre in action in his second day of practice with the Jets. "He brings us up, too, because we're going up against a guy that can tear a defense apart."

Favre doesn't have the arm he once did and is still only in the early stages of learning the Jets offense, but he has shown glimpses of what he's capable of. Revis and his fellow members of the secondary want to keep them to just that: glimpses.

"We have to try and outplay him," Revis said. "If we can do that, we'll definitely be better off on Sundays."

But they still figure to be in for some tough moments during practice.

"It adds extra pressure on the DBs down the field," coach Eric Mangini said. "In terms of the corners and safeties, you'd better get back and have the correct depth because the margin for error is pretty small."

Safety Kerry RhodesKerry Rhodes has seen Favre in action during games before and has seen how dangerous he is.

"You can't make any mistakes," Rhodes said. "You slip, he's getting the ball there quick. It could be a disaster."

Still, they realize that it's better to have those problems against a teammate during the week rather than versus an opponent during a game.

"I'm just happy to have him on my team," Revis said. "You see some of the balls he throws and you think, 'Wow, how'd he get it in there?' Then you see it's one of your teammates who caught it and that makes you feel better."

You can always find quotes like these. Notice how they never show the question that prompted the quote? Leading questions can get just about any quote a reporter wants. What do you expect a player or coach to say when a reporter asks them if Favre helps them, defense or otherwise? I expect them to come up with some reason that he does. What do you expect?

Our pass coverage is the best it has been since I can remember (except for Brees and Co.). Using your logic it would seem that the improvement in our coverage would suggest that Rodgers is better than Favre. I find that very unlikely.

So the logic must be that the Packer's defense sucks this year against the run because Favre isn't there to testing them with the pass? I guess that the pass rush is non-existant because Favre isn't testing it in practice? The Packer's special teams suck this year because Favre isn't coaxing the most out of them?

I just don't see Favre as responsible for our poor defense and ST. If I did, I would be hypocritical because I defended Favre in the past by blaming our defense and special teams for losses. Do you think that it was Favre's fault when our defense played poorly several years ago? Doubtful. Favre shouldn't get blamed for poor defense and he shouldn't get credit for good defense.

Spot on. I'm not doubting Favre pumping up the OL or RB's, but he has nothing to do with getting the ST and defense to play better. I'm sure the DB's might have improved a little just by playing against him and knowing that the guy you are guarding could get the ball at any time and that you could never let up, but that is it.

[dissident94]

Here is a quote from Leon Washington

"When you have Brett Favre coming into the huddle, it makes everybody else in the huddle step their games up," said Leon Washington, who electrified that same sideline with his 92-yard kickoff return for a TD in the second quarter. "We're fortunate to have a guy like that leading us."


Here is a quote frome a DEFENSIVE PLAYER for the JETS

He doesn't just improve the offense," the second-year cornerback said yesterday after watching Favre in action in his second day of practice with the Jets. "He brings us up, too, because we're going up against a guy that can tear a defense apart."

Favre doesn't have the arm he once did and is still only in the early stages of learning the Jets offense, but he has shown glimpses of what he's capable of. Revis and his fellow members of the secondary want to keep them to just that: glimpses.

"We have to try and outplay him," Revis said. "If we can do that, we'll definitely be better off on Sundays."

But they still figure to be in for some tough moments during practice.

"It adds extra pressure on the DBs down the field," coach Eric Mangini said. "In terms of the corners and safeties, you'd better get back and have the correct depth because the margin for error is pretty small."

Safety Kerry RhodesKerry Rhodes has seen Favre in action during games before and has seen how dangerous he is.

"You can't make any mistakes," Rhodes said. "You slip, he's getting the ball there quick. It could be a disaster."

Still, they realize that it's better to have those problems against a teammate during the week rather than versus an opponent during a game.

"I'm just happy to have him on my team," Revis said. "You see some of the balls he throws and you think, 'Wow, how'd he get it in there?' Then you see it's one of your teammates who caught it and that makes you feel better."

You can always find quotes like these. Notice how they never show the question that prompted the quote? Leading questions can get just about any quote a reporter wants. What do you expect a player or coach to say when a reporter asks them if Favre helps them, defense or otherwise? I expect them to come up with some reason that he does. What do you expect?

Our pass coverage is the best it has been since I can remember (except for Brees and Co.). Using your logic it would seem that the improvement in our coverage would suggest that Rodgers is better than Favre. I find that very unlikely.

So the logic must be that the Packer's defense sucks this year against the run because Favre isn't there to testing them with the pass? I guess that the pass rush is non-existant because Favre isn't testing it in practice? The Packer's special teams suck this year because Favre isn't coaxing the most out of them?

I just don't see Favre as responsible for our poor defense and ST. If I did, I would be hypocritical because I defended Favre in the past by blaming our defense and special teams for losses. Do you think that it was Favre's fault when our defense played poorly several years ago? Doubtful. Favre shouldn't get blamed for poor defense and he shouldn't get credit for good defense.


Good points.

[sharpe1027]

This post kinda goes with what I was feeling watching Rodgers yesterday. I would disagree with the heading, I DON't think he carries this team. At this point, he doesn't have "it" to be that special player. He is, at least at this point a GAME MANAGER. He will not make the big mistake, and he will not make that "WOW" player on a regular basis. He uses the tools he has been given, and uses them VERY well, which is why his stats are what they are.

Can he be that "it" player.......sure, i guess, can't anyone?

I'm not sure what constitutes a WOW play, but your description of Rodgers sounds an awful lot like Montana. Montana didn't make many mistakes and got the ball to his WRs so that they could make plays. They always had sick YAC numbers. Rodgers is no Montana, but Montana had possibly the greatest "it" factor of any QB and he did it mostly by making solid, not particularly incredible, throws.

The biggest problem I have with Rodgers is that he has had some stretches where he is off and is consitently missing his WRS. But I do I like how he is able to come back the next series and hit on several straight passes.

I don't really know what other people think "carrying the team" means. He isn't winning, so he's not really carrying it anywhere significant. :lol: For what it is worth, I do think he is doing his part better than necessary to win games.

[cheesner]

I don't think it is a stretch to say that a leader on one side of the ball can inspire the players on the other side of the ball. I see Defensive players coming off the field firing up the Offense all the time.

The impact may be more than just during game day also. A good team leader will inspire a team to practice harder, do more film study, etc.

That being said, I don't think Favre had that much impact on the Packers anymore. I think the change of scenery has helped him, but his stature in the locker room was not what most people think it was.

[dissident94]

Look at this form tackle. He would be an upgrade over our Lbs

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/B_Favre_070923_gallery_600.jpg

[Deputy Nutz]

Without Favre as a whole identity for this franchise, this team has reverted back to what it is, and average football team in the NFL. This goes on the shoulders of Thompson and McCarthy, and that goes with throwing the whole Favre argument out the window.

Loosing the whole identity of the franchise? Maybe if you were born in 1992.

The difference between this year and last year begins and ends with the defense and the special teams. I don't buy your argument that Favre's presence caused the entire defense and special teams to play better. That Favre worked magic by raising an average football team to greatness by improving their defense and special teams using as series of ass snaps with a towel in the locker room and by making fart jokes. :roll:

Other teams had to game plan around Favre. Regardless of his age, Favre was still an opposing team's number one priority. Stop Favre, stop the Packers offense.

What about the running game? You mention special teams and defense, but what about the fact that our running game is just an added bonus when it is working. Nothing to rely on.

By the way, thanks for taking one sentence in my whole post and blow it out of proportion. Really can't say anything around here anymore without it flaming up the entire thread.

[sharpe1027]

Other teams had to game plan around Favre. Regardless of his age, Favre was still an opposing team's number one priority. Stop Favre, stop the Packers offense.

What about the running game? You mention special teams and defense, but what about the fact that our running game is just an added bonus when it is working. Nothing to rely on.

By the way, thanks for taking one sentence in my whole post and blow it out of proportion. Really can't say anything around here anymore without it flaming up the entire thread.

Favre likely helped the running game. When Rodgers is throwing as much as he is, he is also likely helping the running game. We can get into a pissing match about who helps out more, but this year's problem begins and ends with the Defense, IMO.

I was disagreeing with one of your statements and wanted to discuss it. I don't find it very overly useful to write a lot of posts that just say, yeah I agree with you. I apologize if that comes across in a negative way. I thought the rest of your post made sense. Can we kiss and makeup now? :twisted:

[cheesner]

Without Favre as a whole identity for this franchise, this team has reverted back to what it is, and average football team in the NFL. This goes on the shoulders of Thompson and McCarthy, and that goes with throwing the whole Favre argument out the window.

Loosing the whole identity of the franchise? Maybe if you were born in 1992.

The difference between this year and last year begins and ends with the defense and the special teams. I don't buy your argument that Favre's presence caused the entire defense and special teams to play better. That Favre worked magic by raising an average football team to greatness by improving their defense and special teams using as series of ass snaps with a towel in the locker room and by making fart jokes. :roll:

Other teams had to game plan around Favre. Regardless of his age, Favre was still an opposing team's number one priority. Stop Favre, stop the Packers offense.

What about the running game? You mention special teams and defense, but what about the fact that our running game is just an added bonus when it is working. Nothing to rely on.

By the way, thanks for taking one sentence in my whole post and blow it out of proportion. Really can't say anything around here anymore without it flaming up the entire thread.
Favre won games for us and he lost games for us. I think both he and AR are well-above average QBs that win by different playing styles. It is unfair to look at a game and say that if BF was in there at the end, we would have won. I saw too many games where BF played very poorly. We may have never been in a position to win the game had he been playing.

I look at it like this: AR is great because he is a player who plays consistently at a very high level. At this point, I am not sure he can win a game by 'himself'.

BF is great because he is a dynamic playmaker. He can win games on his 'own' with his abilities. He, however, is sometimes not in the game and throws a ridiculous pass. BF's inconsistencies cost us games.

Both great players. Both have great qualities and some liabilities. I doubt having AR now rather than BF has much impact on the Packers at this point.

[Deputy Nutz]

I never got into this thread to argue the attribute of Favre compared to the attributes of Rodgers.

[sharpe1027]

I never got into this thread to argue the attribute of Favre compared to the attributes of Rodgers.

I originally thought that saying that the Packers lost their entire identity was a bit melodramatic and I said so. I guess we were in agreement afterall. My whole point was that Rodgers/Favre was not the main reason for the teams struggles.

[Merlin]

In response to the original Title: "NO". Wins are all that matters and I doubt Rodgers would take anyone thinking he was "carrying" a 5-7 team as a compliment...

[Partial]

Other teams had to game plan around Favre. Regardless of his age, Favre was still an opposing team's number one priority. Stop Favre, stop the Packers offense.

What about the running game? You mention special teams and defense, but what about the fact that our running game is just an added bonus when it is working. Nothing to rely on.

By the way, thanks for taking one sentence in my whole post and blow it out of proportion. Really can't say anything around here anymore without it flaming up the entire thread.

Favre likely helped the running game. When Rodgers is throwing as much as he is, he is also likely helping the running game. We can get into a pissing match about who helps out more, but this year's problem begins and ends with the Defense, IMO.

I was disagreeing with one of your statements and wanted to discuss it. I don't find it very overly useful to write a lot of posts that just say, yeah I agree with you. I apologize if that comes across in a negative way. I thought the rest of your post made sense. Can we kiss and makeup now? :twisted:

Not really. We're sitting at 7-5 if we had any form of offense against either Minnesota or Tennessee. How quickly we forget.

One could also make a compelling case that if the offense did not falter so poorly in the end of the Tampa game we'd be riding high at 8-4.

[The Leaper]

Rodgers has rarely stepped up in a big moment and delivered this season. Of course, he's a first year starter...so I don't expect it from him. However, that is ultimately the difference between Rodgers and Favre...and it is a massive difference indeed.

Favre had an MVP caliber season in 2007. Rodgers is not having an MVP caliber season in 2008, although it is a very good one and hopefully he will only go up from here.

[Pugger]

Yesterday AR started slowly but he got better as the game went along. And in the second half he brought the team back and took the lead only to watch the ST give Carolina great field position and the D to let that lead slip away. :( I think the team earlier this season was trying to find its identity after BF was traded but it appears the fellas are rallying around Rodgers. But at this point in his career AR can't carry a team on his sore shoulders. But I think he'll only get better and next season is gonna be fun - IF TT can fix our defense over the offseason. :?

[arcilite]

Rodgers has rarely stepped up in a big moment and delivered this season. Of course, he's a first year starter...so I don't expect it from him. However, that is ultimately the difference between Rodgers and Favre...and it is a massive difference indeed.

Favre had an MVP caliber season in 2007. Rodgers is not having an MVP caliber season in 2008, although it is a very good one and hopefully he will only go up from here.

I guess this is where we have different opinions. Rodgers HAS Stepped up and delivered, his supporting cast has not. That is the difference between 2007 and 2008.

[bobblehead]

Well, the proof is in the pudding. Numerous players in their time in GB, and now numerous Jets have said that with BF around they want to play better and harder. They don't want to let the man down.

We haven't heard anything of the sort since he left. In fact, its quite apparent watching the team that the effort just isn't their. Gone are last years gang tackles, high fives, and desire to be the best.

So, you tell me. Did everyone fall off over night? Or did they stop playing as hard?

Now, for the subject at hand, that is a load of bull that Aaron is carrying the team. Yesterday he did, I will agree, but that was the first and only time this year. He has been middle of the road at best the rest of the year. I really don't care how many touchdowns he has, because that is a biproduct of teams not respecting our goal line running game.

So far, he has had 6 good games, and we've won 5 of them. He's had 5 games where I felt the loss fell on his shoulders, and then there were two where he was not really a factor either way.

Currently we are dead last in the NFL in 3rd down and long situations. Consequently, this is what we're in most of the time due to the defense bringing up 8 guys since they don't respect A-Rod. Is this carrying a team on your shoulders? You tell me.

Yesterday was the first time Rodgers used all his weapons effectively and used the middle of the field. Whether this is a biproduct of MM opening up the offense, or Rodgers finally feeling comfortable, I know not. If he continues to play like yesterday, then yes, he will be capable of carrying a team on his shoulders.

So did you see the part where we have the best red zone offense in the NFL this year? I guess those guys thought BF was lining up.

I try to stay reasonable and rational about all of this and I understand that peoples manlove for favre makes them say stupid things but FUCK. Trust me when I tell you this...NOT ONE PLAYER ON OUR DEFENSE IS MAILING IT IN BECAUSE BF ISN'T AROUND.

[bobblehead]

Prior to the start of this season, most in these forums argued that there would be no drop off in talent after replacing Favre with Rogers.


Nice strawman dickhead...I think you would be hard pressed to find more than TWO posters who expressed this point of view. I could point out more posters who blame TT for the failing economy because he traded BF.

Most of us have let this go, but I am so sick of this arguement I am resorting to flaming both sides from here on out. Anyone who is trying to say Rodgers is better than favre is basically trying to stir up shit, but anyone who wants to discount the year rodgers is having is pretty much brain dead.

[sharpe1027]

Not really. We're sitting at 7-5 if we had any form of offense against either Minnesota or Tennessee. How quickly we forget.

One could also make a compelling case that if the offense did not falter so poorly in the end of the Tampa game we'd be riding high at 8-4.

One could make the case for a lot of things, either way. The numbers for Rodgers and Favre are so close that I cannot come to the logical conclusion that Rodgers is the difference. Rodgers has played very well in other games and still lost.

Knock it off people. Rodgers is playing well. Favre is playing well. Get over it already. There are bigger fish to fry.

[pbmax]

Rodgers has rarely stepped up in a big moment and delivered this season. Of course, he's a first year starter...so I don't expect it from him. However, that is ultimately the difference between Rodgers and Favre...and it is a massive difference indeed.

Favre had an MVP caliber season in 2007. Rodgers is not having an MVP caliber season in 2008, although it is a very good one and hopefully he will only go up from here.
No it is not massive. In fact, whatever dropoff there has been in QB play has been lapped by the drop off in defensive and Special Team play. Remember the first 7 games of last year? If not for the Defense and Special Team play, we would not have had only one loss entering the Dallas game.

This year, as proof that scoring a Defensive or Special Team's touchdown is as much luck as skill, we have scored far more points, and played for worse, especially in ST coverage.

[Bretsky]

He's doing really well, but this thread will do nothing more than stir shit and make the people who miss and love Favre more pissed and more likely to want to stab back at Rodgers again and again.


None of this shit is fair to Favre who had a HOF career and doesn't deserve to be compared to a kid that has accomplished nothing yet. And the comparisons are made unfairly by not taking into accoutn circumstance (like the really, really good offense Rodgers inherited)

None of this shit is fair to Rodgers who's having a really good season and does not deserve the vitriol that comes at him from the Favre faithfull who want to compare him negatively against the HOF Favre without taking into account circumstance (like a horrible defensive line that is crumbling in the 4th quarter, only being 24 years old starting his first season and a really tough schedule)

Honestly, I'm sick of the comparisions. They're freaking useless and almost all of them have a stupid f'in agenda that in no way resembles a search for truth. More like a search for scapegoats or an attemt to belittle. That's it.


good post JH

[The Shadow]

Rodgers has done an excellent job under extremely trying conditions, and is one of the major reasons I have optimism for seasons ahead.

[cpk1994]

Rodgers has done an excellent job under extremely trying conditions, and is one of the major reasons I have optimism for seasons ahead.I agree. However that optimism doesn't go over to the defense right now, more specifally the DL.

[SnakeLH2006]

Some interesting numbers I found, which hopefully can spark some discussion.

1) Rodgers, is tied for first in the NFL, with Brees and Warner, with 24 total touchdowns

2) Rodgers is on pace to have:

More passing yards

More rushing yards

More passing touchdowns

More rushing touchdowns

Less interceptions



Than the 07 Favre

3) His offense is putting up 27.2 ppg. More than all of Favre's offenses, save two seasons.


Pretty remarkable that a 24 year old 1st year starter is doing such big things right now. Shame the defense can't help him out.

First off I like Arod, but to compare the two is asinine. Sure, Carson Palmer is a first ballot HOF then right? Crazy good numbers, not so much for wins. How many winning seasons has he had with his sick QB rating........................1. I'm not one to compare those two, but there is one thing Brett has done consistently.................WIN.

Shut the hell up and realize we are 5-7. Get back to us when you do (and yea, those offensive pts. are skewed bigtime by D TD's.) I like ARod, but till he brings us a winner..I'm off that parade you just launched as a "winner" in the QB debacle. Pathetic thread indeed. Who cares about stats when we lose. Go hit up Stephon Marbury's blog or something. Jeez.... 8-)

[Gunakor]

First off I like Arod, but to compare the two is asinine. Sure, Carson Palmer is a first ballot HOF then right? Crazy good numbers, not so much for wins. How many winning seasons has he had with his sick QB rating........................1. I'm not one to compare those two, but there is one thing Brett has done consistently.................WIN.

Shut the hell up and realize we are 5-7. Get back to us when you do (and yea, those offensive pts. are skewed bigtime by D TD's.) I like ARod, but till he brings us a winner..I'm off that parade you just launched as a "winner" in the QB debacle. Pathetic thread indeed. Who cares about stats when we lose. Go hit up Stephon Marbury's blog or something. Jeez.... 8-)

Winning is accomplished by a team. Wins and losses do not fall squarely on the shoulders of the QB. When your QB leads a drive late in the game to give you a lead with 2 minutes to go, he's done his job. If your team loses because your goddamn ST and defense can't do what's demanded of them, that's not the QB's fault. If your defense gives up a tying score heading into overtime, and then can't stop anyone IN overtime, that's not the QB's fault. That was the story for many years for Carson Palmer too - no defense in Cincy. That's not Palmer's fault.

Many of Brett's winning seasons came along with having a top 10 defense - there were a couple years we had the #1 defense in the entire NFL. Look at the Jets defense this year - top 10 or damn close (were 10th before last weekend, haven't looked at what they are after). And Brett has 8 wins to show for it. A QB's success in the win column depends greatly on the other 44 guys who dress up on gameday.

This year's 5-7 record has little to do with Aaron Rodgers specifically. It has much more to do with the Green Bay Packers in general. Stop putting the fortunes of a team with 53 members on the shoulders of just one of them. This is getting rediculous. And I'm not trying to single you out here, as there are several posters here that feel the same way as you do. The QB is not solely responsible for a teams record. Most of us understand that.

By the way, that last game against Carolina was your example of Rodgers putting the team on his shoulders and leading them to victory. If you seriously place any blame on Rodgers for that loss, even considering that he led the Packers to scores on EVERY POSSESSION of the second half except for the last one that ended in a desperation heave downfield that was picked off, then there's no reasoning with you. You'll never be satisfied.

Christ, I wish the players on defense and teams were playing with the same fire Rodgers and his offense were playing with on Sunday.

[cpk1994]

First off I like Arod, but to compare the two is asinine. Sure, Carson Palmer is a first ballot HOF then right? Crazy good numbers, not so much for wins. How many winning seasons has he had with his sick QB rating........................1. I'm not one to compare those two, but there is one thing Brett has done consistently.................WIN.

Shut the hell up and realize we are 5-7. Get back to us when you do (and yea, those offensive pts. are skewed bigtime by D TD's.) I like ARod, but till he brings us a winner..I'm off that parade you just launched as a "winner" in the QB debacle. Pathetic thread indeed. Who cares about stats when we lose. Go hit up Stephon Marbury's blog or something. Jeez.... 8-)

Winning is accomplished by a team. Wins and losses do not fall squarely on the shoulders of the QB. When your QB leads a drive late in the game to give you a lead with 2 minutes to go, he's done his job. If your team loses because your goddamn ST and defense can't do what's demanded of them, that's not the QB's fault. If your defense gives up a tying score heading into overtime, and then can't stop anyone IN overtime, that's not the QB's fault. That was the story for many years for Carson Palmer too - no defense in Cincy. That's not Palmer's fault.

Many of Brett's winning seasons came along with having a top 10 defense - there were a couple years we had the #1 defense in the entire NFL. Look at the Jets defense this year - top 10 or damn close (were 10th before last weekend, haven't looked at what they are after). And Brett has 8 wins to show for it. A QB's success in the win column depends greatly on the other 44 guys who dress up on gameday.

This year's 5-7 record has little to do with Aaron Rodgers specifically. It has much more to do with the Green Bay Packers in general. Stop putting the fortunes of a team with 53 members on the shoulders of just one of them. This is getting rediculous. And I'm not trying to single you out here, as there are several posters here that feel the same way as you do. The QB is not solely responsible for a teams record. Most of us understand that.

By the way, that last game against Carolina was your example of Rodgers putting the team on his shoulders and leading them to victory. If you seriously place any blame on Rodgers for that loss, even considering that he led the Packers to scores on EVERY POSSESSION of the second half except for the last one that ended in a desperation heave downfield that was picked off, then there's no reasoning with you. You'll never be satisfied.

Christ, I wish the players on defense and teams were playing with the same fire Rodgers and his offense were playing with on Sunday.

Excellent post. And might I add:

:knll:

[MOBB DEEP]

JUST WIN BABY...!!!

[MOBB DEEP]

Rodgers has done an excellent job under extremely trying conditions

what ""trying conditions?"

FAT contract??

[SnakeLH2006]

First off I like Arod, but to compare the two is asinine. Sure, Carson Palmer is a first ballot HOF then right? Crazy good numbers, not so much for wins. How many winning seasons has he had with his sick QB rating........................1. I'm not one to compare those two, but there is one thing Brett has done consistently.................WIN.

Shut the hell up and realize we are 5-7. Get back to us when you do (and yea, those offensive pts. are skewed bigtime by D TD's.) I like ARod, but till he brings us a winner..I'm off that parade you just launched as a "winner" in the QB debacle. Pathetic thread indeed. Who cares about stats when we lose. Go hit up Stephon Marbury's blog or something. Jeez.... 8-)

Winning is accomplished by a team. Wins and losses do not fall squarely on the shoulders of the QB. When your QB leads a drive late in the game to give you a lead with 2 minutes to go, he's done his job. If your team loses because your goddamn ST and defense can't do what's demanded of them, that's not the QB's fault. If your defense gives up a tying score heading into overtime, and then can't stop anyone IN overtime, that's not the QB's fault. That was the story for many years for Carson Palmer too - no defense in Cincy. That's not Palmer's fault.

Many of Brett's winning seasons came along with having a top 10 defense - there were a couple years we had the #1 defense in the entire NFL. Look at the Jets defense this year - top 10 or damn close (were 10th before last weekend, haven't looked at what they are after). And Brett has 8 wins to show for it. A QB's success in the win column depends greatly on the other 44 guys who dress up on gameday.

This year's 5-7 record has little to do with Aaron Rodgers specifically. It has much more to do with the Green Bay Packers in general. Stop putting the fortunes of a team with 53 members on the shoulders of just one of them. This is getting rediculous. And I'm not trying to single you out here, as there are several posters here that feel the same way as you do. The QB is not solely responsible for a teams record. Most of us understand that.

By the way, that last game against Carolina was your example of Rodgers putting the team on his shoulders and leading them to victory. If you seriously place any blame on Rodgers for that loss, even considering that he led the Packers to scores on EVERY POSSESSION of the second half except for the last one that ended in a desperation heave downfield that was picked off, then there's no reasoning with you. You'll never be satisfied.

Christ, I wish the players on defense and teams were playing with the same fire Rodgers and his offense were playing with on Sunday.


Who did that? I'm just saying stats don't make a winner. I never once said Rodgers was to blame for our 5-7 record so don't get it skewed. The original thread post was about how much better we are with Arod. Not true, nor did I once blame him so don't lace me with "your haters" as I like him and think he'll eventually lead us to many good teams with wins. I don't/didn't blame him as your generalizations suck ass. Check EVERY post I EVER made, as I don't blame him, but to think I'm gonna support he's "carrying" our team to a 5-7 record as this thread suggests is stupid. I did not blame him for our record or say he should be 10-2 either. Mobb makes a good point. Just win baby! Stats are stupid as is your comment saying I'm an Arod blamer, dumbfuck. Read what I said first. I never said ARod was a loser, just that he needs to win games to get the credit. That's what starting NFL QB's need to do. I like him, not you too much...But if you said something other than retarded generalizations about me, I'd prob. like you more, or if you went better than 5-7 and were our QB. Don't lace me as an ARod hater fool..... :x

[Gunakor]

First off I like Arod, but to compare the two is asinine. Sure, Carson Palmer is a first ballot HOF then right? Crazy good numbers, not so much for wins. How many winning seasons has he had with his sick QB rating........................1. I'm not one to compare those two, but there is one thing Brett has done consistently.................WIN.

Shut the hell up and realize we are 5-7. Get back to us when you do (and yea, those offensive pts. are skewed bigtime by D TD's.) I like ARod, but till he brings us a winner..I'm off that parade you just launched as a "winner" in the QB debacle. Pathetic thread indeed. Who cares about stats when we lose. Go hit up Stephon Marbury's blog or something. Jeez.... 8-)

Winning is accomplished by a team. Wins and losses do not fall squarely on the shoulders of the QB. When your QB leads a drive late in the game to give you a lead with 2 minutes to go, he's done his job. If your team loses because your goddamn ST and defense can't do what's demanded of them, that's not the QB's fault. If your defense gives up a tying score heading into overtime, and then can't stop anyone IN overtime, that's not the QB's fault. That was the story for many years for Carson Palmer too - no defense in Cincy. That's not Palmer's fault.

Many of Brett's winning seasons came along with having a top 10 defense - there were a couple years we had the #1 defense in the entire NFL. Look at the Jets defense this year - top 10 or damn close (were 10th before last weekend, haven't looked at what they are after). And Brett has 8 wins to show for it. A QB's success in the win column depends greatly on the other 44 guys who dress up on gameday.

This year's 5-7 record has little to do with Aaron Rodgers specifically. It has much more to do with the Green Bay Packers in general. Stop putting the fortunes of a team with 53 members on the shoulders of just one of them. This is getting rediculous. And I'm not trying to single you out here, as there are several posters here that feel the same way as you do. The QB is not solely responsible for a teams record. Most of us understand that.

By the way, that last game against Carolina was your example of Rodgers putting the team on his shoulders and leading them to victory. If you seriously place any blame on Rodgers for that loss, even considering that he led the Packers to scores on EVERY POSSESSION of the second half except for the last one that ended in a desperation heave downfield that was picked off, then there's no reasoning with you. You'll never be satisfied.

Christ, I wish the players on defense and teams were playing with the same fire Rodgers and his offense were playing with on Sunday.


Who did that? I'm just saying stats don't make a winner. I never once said Rodgers was to blame for our 5-7 record so don't get it skewed. The original thread post was about how much better we are with Arod. Not true, nor did I once blame him so don't lace me with "your haters" as I like him and think he'll eventually lead us to many good teams with wins. I don't/didn't blame him as your generalizations suck ass. Check EVERY post I EVER made, as I don't blame him, but to think I'm gonna support he's "carrying" our team to a 5-7 record as this thread suggests is stupid. I did not blame him for our record or say he should be 10-2 either. Mobb makes a good point. Just win baby! Stats are stupid as is your comment saying I'm an Arod blamer, dumbfuck. Read what I said first. I never said ARod was a loser, just that he needs to win games to get the credit. That's what starting NFL QB's need to do. I like him, not you too much...But if you said something other than retarded generalizations about me, I'd prob. like you more, or if you went better than 5-7 and were our QB. Don't lace me as an ARod hater fool..... :x

And winning is not the QB's job alone. That's my point. Rodgers gets the credit regardless, because he's played extremely well. And I could care less if you like me or not. I didn't start with the name calling. Die in a fire "fool".

[MOBB DEEP]

pack has scored 27 plus points in four straight games but are 1-3 over that span

DAYUM!

numbers OFTEN mean very little

[cpk1994]

Rodgers has done an excellent job under extremely trying conditions

what ""trying conditions?"

FAT contract??You are a Favre lover and you don't know what Shadow refers to? And here I thought you were smart. 8-)

[MOBB DEEP]

Rodgers has done an excellent job under extremely trying conditions

what ""trying conditions?"

FAT contract??You are a Favre lover and you don't know what Shadow refers to? And here I thought you were smart. 8-)


:D :D :?