The slim chance remaining (playoffs)

[Patler]

Pretty clear that the Packers have to win out for any realistic chance at getting into the playoffs. Doing that automatically disposes of the Bears, because the best the Bears could be would be 9-7 and at 9-7 the Packers would have the tie breaker advantage in either a two-way or a three-way tie.

So it comes down to the Vikings. Again, in a tie with the Vikings, if the Packers go 4-0 to finish 9-7 the Packers will win the tie breaker in either a two-way or a three-way tie. Of course to get there, the Vikings need to lose two of their four remaining games to finish at 9-7. The Vikings games

at Detroit
at Arizona
Atlanta
NY Giants

In an 8-8 two-way tie with the Vikings or three-way tie with the Bears and Vikings, the Packers have to beat the Lions and the Bears to win a tie breaker based on record within the division. If they don't, and the head to head records and records within the division are equal, The Packers can not win the tie breaker for best record among common opponents. The Vikings are already 4-3 in common games, and the best the Packers can be is 3-5. It gets more complicated with an 8-8 tie with only the Bears.

In summary, the Packers opportunities geared to Viking losses are as follows:

If the Vikings lose none or one, obviously the season is over.

If the Vikings lose two, the Packers will be North Division champs if they win all four remaining games.

If the Vikings lose three, the Packers will be NFC North Division champs if they win all four, or if they the beat the Bears and Lions and one other team while the Bears also lose at least one other game in addition to the the Packer game.

If the Vikings lose all four remaining games, The packers will be NFC North champs if:
-they win all four remaining games
-they beat the Bears and Lions and one other team, while the Bears lose one of their other three games
-they beat only the Bears and Lions and the Bears lose two of their other three games.
-The Packers win any three and the Bears lose all four.

There are some wild scenarios if the Vikings were to lose all four, finishing at 7-9 in which the Packers could win the Division in a tie with the Bears at 8-8 even if the Packers were to lose to the Bears or Lions, but it would then get down to which specific games are won or lost, strength of wins, etc.

[hoosier]

So it comes down to the Vikings. Again, in a tie with the Vikings, if the Packers go 4-0 to finish 9-7 the Packers will win the tie breaker in either a two-way or a three-way tie. Of course to get there, the Vikings need to lose two of their four remaining games to finish at 9-7. The Vikings games

at Detroit
at Arizona
Atlanta
NY Giants


The Vikings are probably going to be getting AZ and NYG at the right time of year (for them): Arizona will have lost two of last three and the Giants may well have clinched HFA by the time the Vikings get them. Assuming the Vikings win at least one of those two games, they would have to lose at home to Atlanta for the Packers to have any chance. If the Vikings beat the Falcons and Arizona or NYG, I think they deserve to make the playoffs more than the Packers.

[sheepshead]

Maybe a little better than slim....maybe not

[Patler]

The Vikings are probably going to be getting AZ and NYG at the right time of year (for them): Arizona will have lost two of last three and the Giants may well have clinched HFA by the time the Vikings get them. Assuming the Vikings win at least one of those two games, they would have to lose at home to Atlanta for the Packers to have any chance. If the Vikings beat the Falcons and Arizona or NYG, I think they deserve to make the playoffs more than the Packers.

It will kind of suck if the Packers were to finish 4-0 (dreaming, I know) and lose the division only because the Vikings beat a Giants team playing mostly backups. But, if that happens they have no one to blame but themselves.

However, I will agree that even if the Packers go 4-0 I would hesitate to say they deserve to be in the playoffs, regardless. I'm not sure either the Packers or Bears will deserve it no matter what happens the rest of the season. The Vikings still have an opportunity to show themselves to be somewhat worthy of a playoff spot.

[Patler]

Maybe a little better than slim....maybe not

Since any realistic chance begins with the Packers winning all four remaining games I'm leaning toward "very slim". :lol:

[sheepshead]

good point

[Rastak]

This is a cool website I picked up from this forum last year.


http://www.playoffstatus.com/nfl/nfcstandings.html

[sheepshead]

Ouch

[sheepshead]

Geez were one game better then the niners who fired their HC.

[channtheman]

The whole idea of the Packers actually winning 4 games straight (regardless of opponent) is just laughable to me at this point. I would love for them to do that and win the division, but I just don't see this team stringing together 4 good games in a row.

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://www.firstandsecondcityguys.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/JimMora.jpg

[KYPack]

This is a cool website I picked up from this forum last year.


http://www.playoffstatus.com/nfl/nfcstandings.html

That is a cool site.

Tells us what we knew.

We no shot at a card and need to win out and have a "perfect storm" to win the division.

We all about knew that, but that site puts it in black and white for ya.

[LL2]

This season has been a disapointment. I was not expecting a SB appearance, but at least 10-6. I do not want to see a losing season. I will be a long offseason where we can expect the same from TT. TT has made a lot of good moves, but for once I would like to see TT become agressive for once. This team is not that far from being a championship team and that is the frustrating part. They should be the best team in the NFC north, but they can't play like one.

[Guiness]

For whatever it's worth, I think we have a decent shot at the playoffs as a divisional winner.

8-8 could well win our division this season. If we are 3-1, with one of those wins being over the Bears, we could well be in.

The Vikings are due (sorry Rastak, but it's true) for their late season collapse. This will be aided in no small part by a suspension to the Williams's. If those two are out for a couple of games, they're going to have a tough time. 1-3 would not be out of the question. I don't buy into the thinking that just because they've done it before, it will happen again...but I do believe that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it!

The Bears - I just don't see anything there.

Getting this young team back to the playoffs goes a long ways towards maintaining a winning tradition. Building a climate where it is expected, not desired.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Tommorrow will be a big day in finding out if we stand a chance or not. If the Williams fatties are suspended the Packers certainly have a chance. We have a Texans team who is horrible on the road and also coming off a short week. We'll get a Jags team @ home(where they sport a losing record) who has more problems right now than the Packers. The toughest game left is the Bears, which could go either way. If by the point the packers are 3-0 I just couldnt see them losing @ home in the last game of the year to the Lions.

A lot of this hinges on whether or not the Williams boys are suspended for the Queens to lose 2 of their last 4.

[Rastak]

Well, hearing all the leaked evidence I really doubt they will be suspended for 4 games. In fact, the rumor is the players will file an injunction and a lawsuit if they are for the following reasons from leaked testimony:

1) The NFL found out sometime ago that StarCaps contained an FDA regulated drug that could not legally be in an over the counter product. The drug was not listed on the product for obvious reasons.

2) The NFL doctor who made this discovery reportedly told his collegues they should not mention this to the players association for fear other players may falsely claim they were taking this product if they tested positive. If the NFL knew this product contained an illegal and banned drug, they should have notified the players immediately. To withhold this information purposely, then attempt to prosecute them is laughable and would never hold up in a court of law.

3) The Saints players testified at least 25 players on their team also took StarCaps. I assume because it was found to be effective and "did not" contain any banned substances.

4) The NFL hotline, per a source, merely checks the labels for banned drugs and then informs the players.


Given these facts, I had a very hard time believing all these players will be suspended. They were not taking performance enhancing drugs and the NFL knew the product contained illegal substances yet never bothered to share this information. The NFL is opening a giant can of worms if they go forward with this, assuming the above is factual.

[The Leaper]

Green Bay has lost 7 of their last 10.

Green Bay is not going to win 4 in a row.

At least we can cheer for the Jets to make the Super Bowl to get us a nice fat draft pick.

[red]

so we have the 5th worst record in the nfc? good grief

thank god we play in a horrible division or else we could be 2-10 right now

[Harlan Huckleby]

thank god we play in a horrible division or else we could be 2-10 right now

:lol:

come on, they aren't that bad. they outplayed a good Carolina team yesterday, Carolina was lucky to steal a win.

You do accidently make a good point though, the difference between 2-10 and, say, 8-4, really is not much at all.

[bobblehead]

We could run off 4. We have beaten most bad teams and lost to most good teams. If you look at te remaining 4 we could run it. I'm not confident in that, but hey, I gotta have hope.

We had a tough schedule this season, and a tough stretch in it in the middle. The vikings will be playing the Giants JV squad, so.....I see a Lions first victory this weekend :evil:

[Badgerinmaine]

Geez were one game better then the niners who fired their HC.
They fired Mike Nolan and 2-5; they've gone 2-3 under Mike Singletary and really should be 3-2.

[KYPack]

Geez were one game better then the niners who fired their HC.
They fired Mike Nolan and 2-5; they've gone 2-3 under Mike Singletary and really should be 3-2.

Then they would be tied with us!

Oh, the pain!!!

[Guiness]

Well, hearing all the leaked evidence I really doubt they will be suspended for 4 games. In fact, the rumor is the players will file an injunction and a lawsuit if they are for the following reasons from leaked testimony:
[snip]


I had not heard all of that, but then I haven't been following it that closely - there aren't any GB players involved, I don't think?

Interesting run down though, and a bit of a conspiracy theory there, that the NFL was hiding the fact they knew it contained banned substances...a better decision would've been to ask if anyone was taking it, give them a free pass, and then pass along the info.

As far as the Saints, if they actually thought it didn't contained banned substances, they're dumber than a bag of hammers. There are 10 000 friggen products on the market, and this ONE works better than all the others w/o containing any shite? I don't buy it. More likely, they knew it didn't claim to contain any banned substances, and knew when they got caught, they'd have a plausible story they could float.

For my money, it's up to the players to make sure what they are taking is keeping them clean. Olympic athletes don't get to claim 'the bottle said it was ok' and they've generally got a lot less resources to draw on than the average NFL flunkie.


assuming the above is factual.
With the multi-billion dollar circus these guys run, who the hell knows?

[Rastak]

As far as knowing what was in it......Guiness, it was sold over the counter and contained stuff that was not legal to be in there in the USA.


Would you assume it did? I sure wouldn't, even if it worked well.

[Guiness]

As far as knowing what was in it......Guiness, it was sold over the counter and contained stuff that was not legal to be in there in the USA.


Would you assume it did? I sure wouldn't, even if it worked well.

Would I? No, and it wouldn't much matter to me. If my $5mil/yr job depended on it, ya, I'd be concerned.

They probably wouldn't have guessed it contained stuff not legal...but likely knew there was a little more to it than what was claimed.

[red]

what if the guys knew it was in there, and knew they had a loop hole to get out of it?

theres a lot of pro players that are taking this stuff that i honestly have never heard of before, and frankly think it sounds like a joke product. maybe the guys at starcaps told the players what was really in it, and told them they can just play dumb if busted?

maybe thats why only a couple guys have sued at this point?

[Rastak]

what if the guys knew it was in there, and knew they had a loop hole to get out of it?

theres a lot of pro players that are taking this stuff that i honestly have never heard of before, and frankly think it sounds like a joke product. maybe the guys at starcaps told the players what was really in it, and told them they can just play dumb if busted?

maybe thats why only a couple guys have sued at this point?


Would you risk 25% of your salary hoping for a loophole? That isn't even remotely credible.

[red]

what if the guys knew it was in there, and knew they had a loop hole to get out of it?

theres a lot of pro players that are taking this stuff that i honestly have never heard of before, and frankly think it sounds like a joke product. maybe the guys at starcaps told the players what was really in it, and told them they can just play dumb if busted?

maybe thats why only a couple guys have sued at this point?


Would you risk 25% of your salary hoping for a loophole? That isn't even remotely credible.

i'm just saying. why take a worthless product and pay big bucks for it, if you didn't know it would give you something extra

i looked it up, i like i thought, it is a joke product. one site ranked it #151 on a list of diet pills.

then theres this review

http://www.slimmingpillsreview.com/starcaps/?gclid=CIabppmGoZcCFQ4NDQodrB_UZw

starcaps, has no ingredients that would help you lose weight, so why else would all these guys be taking it? the williams sure as hell haven't lost any weight

[MadtownPacker]

Would you risk 25% of your salary hoping for a loophole? That isn't even remotely credible.Some dudes risk it just to smoke some greens so why wouldnt players risk it to improve their performances and in turn improving their paychecks.

I personally am pissed Jolly and Cole havent been taking this shit. Packers might be doing alot better if they where.

[denverYooper]

Olympic athletes don't get to claim 'the bottle said it was ok' and they've generally got a lot less resources to draw on than the average NFL flunkie.


Nope, they sure don't. Olympic athletes are responsible for everything they put in their bodies. They can choose to take supplements that aren't supposed to contain certain ingredients, but if those ingredients are in the supplements, the USOC's policy is immediate ban. An athlete can appeal their ban after it has started, but their chances of getting out by claiming that the manufacturer said something was ok are close to nil. The general stance is that if you're not 100% sure, you shouldn't put it in your body.

The NFL is a different universe than the Olympics wrt how they handle these cases--they investigate first, punish later. That's fine. It seems, though, the case seems to hinge on the fact that the "active ingredient" wasn't on the label. Ultimately the players should be responsible for what they take in.

[sharpe1027]

More likely, they knew it didn't claim to contain any banned substances, and knew when they got caught, they'd have a plausible story they could float.


This.

I find it highly unlikely that this number of players would be taking sub-standard diet pills from a shady supplier. There are plenty of reputable sources for the same stuff. I find it much more likely that they were taking the masking agent and had this planned from the start.

In the end it doesn't matter whether they did it intentionally or not. NFL should put forth a policy that prevents someone from using this type of BS excuse.

[denverYooper]

Would you risk 25% of your salary hoping for a loophole? That isn't even remotely credible.

Given what's happened in the markets recently there are a lot of people who don't share your good sense.

[DonHutson]

The NFL is opening a giant can of worms if they go forward with this, assuming the above is factual.

The NFL is opening a giant can of worms either way. If they give these guys a pass, the NFL is admitting they should have notified the players about this specific product. Then are they taking on the liability to inform the players about every product that's out there? That's what the league is trying desparately to avoid.

They have always put the responsibility on the team and specifically the players to know what they are putting into their bodies. That's exactly the right position for them to take. It should be the player's responsibility. I think they will suspend these players to uphold that precedent.

I also think there will be a big stink about the whole scenario in the off-season for all of the reasons you stated.

[Rastak]

The NFL is opening a giant can of worms if they go forward with this, assuming the above is factual.

The NFL is opening a giant can of worms either way. If they give these guys a pass, the NFL is admitting they should have notified the players about this specific product. Then are they taking on the liability to inform the players about every product that's out there? That's what the league is trying desparately to avoid.

They have always put the responsibility on the team and specifically the players to know what they are putting into their bodies. That's exactly the right position for them to take. It should be the player's responsibility. I think they will suspend these players to uphold that precedent.

I also think there will be a big stink about the whole scenario in the off-season for all of the reasons you stated.


Actually Grady Jackson's agent has already said he's ready to file suit against the NFL if his client is suspended for this, given all the facts. I'm sure he'd file a stay to prevent the suspension from being enforced until the litigation is resolved. (He is also Pat Williams agent, I guess he specializes in fat guys).

I agree on the big can of worms. They'll need to go to court and present all this stuff in public to defend their position. They don't want to set a precedent and they don't want to have this all public so it's a rock and a hard place. Perhaps they will try and find some compromise? Who knows. Hopefully they'll announce something today.

[Fritz]

When you get to the point where you have to say things like "if we win all our games and team X loses all their games, or all but one but the one they win cannot be against a divisional opponent, though if it's a conference opponent it could be against one with a losing record, then we get in!!" you know you're pretty much up the creek.

[denverYooper]

When you get to the point where you have to say things like "if we win all our games and team X loses all their games, or all but one but the one they win cannot be against a divisional opponent, though if it's a conference opponent it could be against one with a losing record, then we get in!!" you know you're pretty much up the creek.

:lol:

Or if the team's players are hanging out and cheering that the new punter they just hired with 4 games left kicks a 50 yard punt in practice.

[MJZiggy]

When you get to the point where you have to say things like "if we win all our games and team X loses all their games, or all but one but the one they win cannot be against a divisional opponent, though if it's a conference opponent it could be against one with a losing record, then we get in!!" you know you're pretty much up the creek.

Sweetie, our playoff hopes are slimmer than I am.

[bobblehead]

Green Bay has lost 7 of their last 10.

Green Bay is not going to win 4 in a row.

At least we can cheer for the Jets to make the Super Bowl to get us a nice fat draft pick.

Just like I told you Arod would play well and not get hurt in week 1 I'm gonna step out on a limb and predict we run the table. Maybe I'm just being a naive fan, but before we lost to NO me and a friend went over the schedule left and noted that we could actually lose to NO and carolina and still win the division. Granted, this is a fragile small limb...but I did pick Kurt Warner to win the MVP and I still have a good shot at that one.

[Bretsky]

Green Bay has lost 7 of their last 10.

Green Bay is not going to win 4 in a row.

At least we can cheer for the Jets to make the Super Bowl to get us a nice fat draft pick.

Just like I told you Arod would play well and not get hurt in week 1 I'm gonna step out on a limb and predict we run the table. Maybe I'm just being a naive fan, but before we lost to NO me and a friend went over the schedule left and noted that we could actually lose to NO and carolina and still win the division. Granted, this is a fragile small limb...but I did pick Kurt Warner to win the MVP and I still have a good shot at that one.


Honestly I could definitely see us running the table, and on a sidenote to Tex my feelings would not change toward Vanilla Bob

We play a Texan team that is a mess, a Jaguar Team that is a mess, a Lion team that is a mess, and the Bears...who we match up pretty well with because their QB still sucks

Even though we are like 3-7 the past ten games, I still think we win 3 or 4 of these last games.

I'm not sure I agree about having to play that great of a schedule anymore though.

We just need to win some close games.