If Favre had stayed...

[sheepshead]

We would be 5-8. Brett would be whispering to Deanna, "I cant wait till its over" and dreading the trip to Chicago where it's even colder. Aaron Rodgers would have had his agent talking to the Vikings back in September and would be mentally finished with the Green Bay Packers.

This isn't the quarterbacks fault and it isn't TT's fault. It's execution. It should fall to MM ultimately. However, his job is safe for another year, so it'll be coaches that will be looking in February.

[Fritz]

I completely disagree, Sheep.

The Pack would probably be 6-7.

[sheepshead]

:glug:

[MateoInMex]

We would be 5-8. Brett would be whispering to Deanna, "I cant wait till its over" and dreading the trip to Chicago where it's even colder. Aaron Rodgers would have had his agent talking to the Vikings back in September and would be mentally finished with the Green Bay Packers.

This isn't the quarterbacks fault and it isn't TT's fault. It's execution. It should fall to MM ultimately. However, his job is safe for another year, so it'll be coaches that will be looking in February.

I agree with you for the most part, Sheepshead. But TT, whether he's not physically on the field telling MM and the team they lack execution, he's the GM, and that's where it starts.

It is TT's fault, as much as it is with the other factors you mentioned Sheepshead. The only thing that I would say regarding A-Rod is he's surprised me a lot this season. He's held up, even through tough stretches where his O-Line failed him big time. He's not the weak link this season by any stretch.

For the draft guru's on this board, and the other posters that know a shitload about free agency,etc that I dont....this is the season that TT could really analyize were the biggest needs are, and hopefully land a legitimate FA that could bring some added leadership to the team, and start to build another successful run for the NFC around a young, core nucleus.

(Wow, I think my head hurts) :D

[cpk1994]

We would be 5-8. Brett would be whispering to Deanna, "I cant wait till its over" and dreading the trip to Chicago where it's even colder. Aaron Rodgers would have had his agent talking to the Vikings back in September and would be mentally finished with the Green Bay Packers.

This isn't the quarterbacks fault and it isn't TT's fault. It's execution. It should fall to MM ultimately. However, his job is safe for another year, so it'll be coaches that will be looking in February.Do you really want to get Mobb going again?

[Deputy Nutz]

Like Favre said at the end of last year nothing in the NFL is guaranteed. Just because they went to the NFC Championship game in 2007 doesn't mean they were guaranteed to get better in 2008.

Don't play the "what if" game. Things change drastically from year to year in the NFL, more so than any other professional sport.

[Partial]

I disagree, but its impossible to tell the tale. Their are a few games where I think we would have won, including today.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I disagree, but its impossible to tell the tale. Their are a few games where I think we would have won, including today.
The way Favre played today, not a chance in hell we would have won today if he played like that here.

[PackerTimer]

I disagree, but its impossible to tell the tale. Their are a few games where I think we would have won, including today.

I just can't see it. Rodger has played well enought in a number of games to win. The only game I think might have been different was Tampa Bay. Favre might have been able to pull that one out. He wouldn't have made a difference in the other games.

[retailguy]

I disagree, but its impossible to tell the tale. Their are a few games where I think we would have won, including today.

No way in hell we'd have won today. I was there, sitting in the front row pissed off at the way the defense played. 540 yards of offense by the TEXANS Partial. We couldn't have beaten a good JV squad today.

It was pitiful. simply pitiful.

[RashanGary]

No way in hell we'd have won today. I was there, sitting in the front row pissed off at the way the defense played. 540 yards of offense by the TEXANS Partial. We couldn't have beaten a good JV squad today.

It was pitiful. simply pitiful.i


I was there too. It was a lot of fun, even losing. I don't go to many games, but the crowd seemed really lively today. I know you go to quite a few games. Did you notice it was louder than usual?

[b bulldog]

i'D only want Brett back if he could play D.

[bobblehead]

I disagree, but its impossible to tell the tale. Their are a few games where I think we would have won, including today.

No way in hell we'd have won today. I was there, sitting in the front row pissed off at the way the defense played. 540 yards of offense by the TEXANS Partial. We couldn't have beaten a good JV squad today.

It was pitiful. simply pitiful.

yup, 2nd highest ever at lambeau. But sheep, why bring up BF again, we have beaten that dead horse like never before. We are the team that we are. We had a tough schedule, we had injuries, and we have lost confidence. Time to salvage a win in chicago and call it a year, come back next year and start over.

PS....No way in HELL that Moll was holding on that play.

[Zool]

I disagree, but its impossible to tell the tale. Their are a few games where I think we would have won, including today.

No way in hell we'd have won today. I was there, sitting in the front row pissed off at the way the defense played. 540 yards of offense by the TEXANS Partial. We couldn't have beaten a good JV squad today.

It was pitiful. simply pitiful.

Brett would be a dominant D-tackle along the lines of a Haynesworth of this season.

[Packers4Ever]

We would be 5-8. Brett would be whispering to Deanna, "I cant wait till its over" and dreading the trip to Chicago where it's even colder. Aaron Rodgers would have had his agent talking to the Vikings back in September and would be mentally finished with the Green Bay Packers.

This isn't the quarterbacks fault and it isn't TT's fault. It's execution. It should fall to MM ultimately. However, his job is safe for another year, so it'll be coaches that will be looking in February.

Yes, certainly some of it is execution, some is bodily response to injury, and on and on.....
But I suggest you try and pick up a copy of Sunday's Milwaukee J/S and see what they have to say re: Packer ailments. I am a diehard Packers fan but I have to say, they are knocking on the right door when it comes to 'fault.'

[Partial]

you guys act like we were blown out. We were in position to win with 2 minutes left and our offense and defense both failed us. Had our offense not failed us so miserably, the defense gets us a tie in the worst case scenario.

[Bossman641]

I disagree, but its impossible to tell the tale. Their are a few games where I think we would have won, including today.

No way in hell we'd have won today. I was there, sitting in the front row pissed off at the way the defense played. 540 yards of offense by the TEXANS Partial. We couldn't have beaten a good JV squad today.

It was pitiful. simply pitiful.

Brett would be a dominant D-tackle along the lines of a Haynesworth of this season.

LOL

And a punter along the likes of Ray Guy? And a special tams demon along the likes of Steve Tasker?

[arcilite]

I agree with the original post

[Zool]

I disagree, but its impossible to tell the tale. Their are a few games where I think we would have won, including today.

No way in hell we'd have won today. I was there, sitting in the front row pissed off at the way the defense played. 540 yards of offense by the TEXANS Partial. We couldn't have beaten a good JV squad today.

It was pitiful. simply pitiful.

Brett would be a dominant D-tackle along the lines of a Haynesworth of this season.

LOL

And a punter along the likes of Ray Guy? And a special tams demon along the likes of Steve Tasker?

Favre is one of the best gunners in the game today on punt coverage. He makes the entire kickoff coverage team better. And before anyone accuses me of bringing up Brett, thats exactly what Partial is leaning towards in his line of posts today.

[Zool]

you guys act like we were blown out. We were in position to win with 2 minutes left and our offense and defense both failed us. Had our offense not failed us so miserably, the defense gets us a tie in the worst case scenario.

Good fuckin Christ P shut up already. 4 turnovers ring a bell? Eliminate 1/2 of those and the Texans put up 40 points. The TEXANS. How about a Turk run for a 1st down? Is that the O's fault too?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Kind of interesting that Rodgers and Schaub finished with nearly identical stats. Both had a 104 passer rating. Both averaged the same yards/attempt. Both had 2 TDs and 1 interception. Similar completion percentage.

[cpk1994]

you guys act like we were blown out. We were in position to win with 2 minutes left and our offense and defense both failed us. Had our offense not failed us so miserably, the defense gets us a tie in the worst case scenario.OR IF THE DEFENSE DOES ITS FUCKING JOB THE OFFENSE GETS ANTOTHER SHOT! Christ your bullshit gets old.

[Partial]

you guys act like we were blown out. We were in position to win with 2 minutes left and our offense and defense both failed us. Had our offense not failed us so miserably, the defense gets us a tie in the worst case scenario.OR IF THE DEFENSE DOES ITS FUCKING JOB THE OFFENSE GETS ANTOTHER SHOT! Christ your bullshit gets old.

I have asked time and time again.. How many times is the defense supposed to hold? The game is not determined in one drive. They played bend but don't break all game long, and held up well enough for the team to be in position to win at the end, including forcing 4 turnovers throughout the game.

The offense was miserable all game. More miserable then the defense. They were given countless chances to score, but they could only put 21 points up against a satellite college defense.

Where is the offenses responsiblility to score some points? I've broken it down already and they are average a meager 20.1 points per game, which simply does not cut it in the NFL. Had the offense capitlized on a single drive beyond the 4 turnovers, they would have blown out the Texans.

[Badgerinmaine]

A lot of the trouble with the offense is pass protection and holding penalties. Not much any QB can do about that. I don't normally say this, but... I agree with Sheepshead.

[pack4to84]

you guys act like we were blown out. We were in position to win with 2 minutes left and our offense and defense both failed us. Had our offense not failed us so miserably, the defense gets us a tie in the worst case scenario.OR IF THE DEFENSE DOES ITS FUCKING JOB THE OFFENSE GETS ANTOTHER SHOT! Christ your bullshit gets old.

I have asked time and time again.. How many times is the defense supposed to hold? The game is not determined in one drive. They played bend but don't break all game long, and held up well enough for the team to be in position to win at the end, including forcing 4 turnovers throughout the game.

The offense was miserable all game. More miserable then the defense. They were given countless chances to score, but they could only put 21 points up against a satellite college defense.

Where is the offenses responsiblility to score some points? I've broken it down already and they are average a meager 20.1 points per game, which simply does not cut it in the NFL. Had the offense capitlized on a single drive beyond the 4 turnovers, they would have blown out the Texans.What game where you watching? Our D sucked today. Rodger had a Brett Favre day or should I say even Brett Favre wishes he could pay as well as Rodger today.

[sheepshead]

I disagree, but its impossible to tell the tale. Their are a few games where I think we would have won, including today.

No way in hell we'd have won today. I was there, sitting in the front row pissed off at the way the defense played. 540 yards of offense by the TEXANS Partial. We couldn't have beaten a good JV squad today.

It was pitiful. simply pitiful.

yup, 2nd highest ever at lambeau. But sheep, why bring up BF again, we have beaten that dead horse like never before. We are the team that we are. We had a tough schedule, we had injuries, and we have lost confidence. Time to salvage a win in chicago and call it a year, come back next year and start over.

PS....No way in HELL that Moll was holding on that play.

I only lumped it in to put the focus on execution (the lack there of) and sloppy play. I think we have enough talent to win 10-11 games. Loosing what ...5 games by 4-5 points something like that. That's just stopping one of their field goal drives and keeping one of ours going. I think as we have the benefit of more hindsight, the Brett issue gets put to rest once and for all.

[Gunakor]

you guys act like we were blown out. We were in position to win with 2 minutes left and our offense and defense both failed us. Had our offense not failed us so miserably, the defense gets us a tie in the worst case scenario.OR IF THE DEFENSE DOES ITS FUCKING JOB THE OFFENSE GETS ANTOTHER SHOT! Christ your bullshit gets old.

I have asked time and time again.. How many times is the defense supposed to hold? The game is not determined in one drive. They played bend but don't break all game long, and held up well enough for the team to be in position to win at the end, including forcing 4 turnovers throughout the game.

The offense was miserable all game. More miserable then the defense. They were given countless chances to score, but they could only put 21 points up against a satellite college defense.

Where is the offenses responsiblility to score some points? I've broken it down already and they are average a meager 20.1 points per game, which simply does not cut it in the NFL. Had the offense capitlized on a single drive beyond the 4 turnovers, they would have blown out the Texans.

And I have answered this question. If our defense allows more than 21 points it is a piss poor effort on their part, unless they are put into shitty positions due to turnovers. That is the line IMO. 21 points. Anything more than that given up and your defense has failed. When they allow ANY points in the final 2 minutes of the game, especially when those points end up being the difference between victory and defeat, they have failed.

Remember the game against Chicago last year played at Lambeau? We had racked up some 350 yards of offense and 30 some points in the first HALF against them, and ended up losing the game because the defense couldn't make the key stops in the second half. That game illustrates my point P. Offense does not win games. Offense scores points, but DEFENSE wins games. On days when our defense shows up and plays well, we win. When they don't, we lose. That's how it is. You can't really argue that one with me, because recent history fully supports my claim.

[DonHutson]

This year is not unlike '05 in terms of injuries and general defensive ineptitude. What did Favre look like that year? A shit load of picks, 4-12, and lots of talking heads saying the Packers were stupid not to give Rodgers a shot to see if he could play.

QB is the least of this team's problems. Rodgers should only get better, and he's already pretty good.

[prsnfoto]

Kind of interesting that Rodgers and Schaub finished with nearly identical stats. Both had a 104 passer rating. Both averaged the same yards/attempt. Both had 2 TDs and 1 interception. Similar completion percentage.


I won't go and say Favre would have won today but I am pretty sure Schaub was better that 1-10 on third downs stats are always interesting. We punted 8 times today and Rodgers dropped the ball on third downs and the defense sucked balls, had they not created 4 TO this is a 42-0 game, the O did not score any points itself all 21 were off TO.

[Fritz]

you guys act like we were blown out. We were in position to win with 2 minutes left and our offense and defense both failed us. Had our offense not failed us so miserably, the defense gets us a tie in the worst case scenario.

...and then, in overtime, the Texans win the toss and drive easily down the field for the winning score.

[Bretsky]

I've noticed that a lot of the thread title kind of beg you to complete the sentence. When I saw this one what came to my mind was "we'd have more wins". :lol:

Before any bashing begins, I'll say AROD has played better than I expected and I see him being a good QB for a long time.

But it'd be a fun game to play with some of the thread titles

[Fritz]

I have been entertaining the possibility that Favre brings an automatic swagger to a team that is pretty much unrelated to his actual performance or talent level at this point in his career.

This would explain in part both the Jets' improvement and the Packers' deprovement (my new word). Maybe losing Favre caused this team to lose its sense of invinicibility - that they couldn't lose cuz they had Favre. At least not til the weather got cold...

[packinpatland]

I've noticed that a lot of the thread title kind of beg you to complete the sentence. When I saw this one what came to my mind was "we'd have more wins". :lol:

Before any bashing begins, I'll say AROD has played better than I expected and I see him being a good QB for a long time.

But it'd be a fun game to play with some of the thread titles


"...........................he wouldn't have to play those Patriots twice a season!"

[ZachMN]

ummmm how good was Jax last year and now where are they? The NFL is so psychotic now there is no carryover from year to year it seems. All TT's fault though

[Bretsky]

ummmm how good was Jax last year and now where are they? The NFL is so psychotic now there is no carryover from year to year it seems. All TT's fault though


Did TT let Marcus Stroud go to free agency ?

[dissident94]

Its BOTH SIDES FAULT. Yes the defense stinks. But the offense couldn't do anything in the first half.

Here is our drives. Now someone tell me the offense isn't a major problem


1rst Q

18yrds-Punt

0 yrds-punt

27 yrds-punt

2nd Q

49 yrds-punt

23 yrds-TD (set up by int)

36 yrds-int

3rd Q

0 yrds punt

26 yrd-punt

79 yrds- TD

4th

89 yrds- td

46 yrd- punt



We had one good drive the whole game. 1 td off of a int. 1 td off of a big play. Other than that we had 1 drive.

When we had good pass protection and receivers running free. Our recievers were wide open all first half and we couldn't do anything.

You do not help a defense by constantly punting back to the other team

[bobblehead]

I have been entertaining the possibility that Favre brings an automatic swagger to a team that is pretty much unrelated to his actual performance or talent level at this point in his career.

This would explain in part both the Jets' improvement and the Packers' deprovement (my new word). Maybe losing Favre caused this team to lose its sense of invinicibility - that they couldn't lose cuz they had Favre. At least not til the weather got cold...

coles is obviously in awe of favre and playing his heart out for the guy...so is the DLine the Jets paid for in the offseason, and the all-pro guard.

The jets are playing the weakest schedule in football this year. They bought a lot of talent in the offseason. BF is still a good (not great) QB, but if anyone thinks that millionaire pro athletes are as in awe of him as some on this board they are nuts.

The packers "deprovement" is due to several factors. A first year starter at QB that is playing about as well as anyone could expect, but isn't a veteran. Injuries at every part of the roster. (name me a position group that hasn't been hurt.) and a damn tough schedule.

edit: just realized that QB is the only position group not to miss time to injury...Huh!

[retailguy]

This year is not unlike '05 in terms of injuries and general defensive ineptitude. What did Favre look like that year? A shit load of picks, 4-12, and lots of talking heads saying the Packers were stupid not to give Rodgers a shot to see if he could play.

QB is the least of this team's problems. Rodgers should only get better, and he's already pretty good.

I firmly believe that Aaron Rodgers has little or nothing to do with how this team is playing right now.

I disagree with the comparisons to 2005 though. That team, other than the Baltimore game, never gave up. This team, is so all over the map, it inspires little confidence. By the middle of the second quarter this past week, I didn't think they could win. Even as they marched down the field to tie at 21 points, my brain was saying this isn't going to work.

I didn't think or believe that in 2005.... I think there is a marked difference in this team and the 2005 team. I put the blame on coaching. All levels. These guys just aren't ready to play, consistently.

[Bretsky]

I have been entertaining the possibility that Favre brings an automatic swagger to a team that is pretty much unrelated to his actual performance or talent level at this point in his career.

This would explain in part both the Jets' improvement and the Packers' deprovement (my new word). Maybe losing Favre caused this team to lose its sense of invinicibility - that they couldn't lose cuz they had Favre. At least not til the weather got cold...

coles is obviously in awe of favre and playing his heart out for the guy...so is the DLine the Jets paid for in the offseason, and the all-pro guard.

The jets are playing the weakest schedule in football this year. They bought a lot of talent in the offseason. BF is still a good (not great) QB, but if anyone thinks that millionaire pro athletes are as in awe of him as some on this board they are nuts.

The packers "deprovement" is due to several factors. A first year starter at QB that is playing about as well as anyone could expect, but isn't a veteran. Injuries at every part of the roster. (name me a position group that hasn't been hurt.) and a damn tough schedule.

Kicker :lol: :wink:

The stength of this year's schedule is really overrated.

[bobblehead]

I have been entertaining the possibility that Favre brings an automatic swagger to a team that is pretty much unrelated to his actual performance or talent level at this point in his career.

This would explain in part both the Jets' improvement and the Packers' deprovement (my new word). Maybe losing Favre caused this team to lose its sense of invinicibility - that they couldn't lose cuz they had Favre. At least not til the weather got cold...

coles is obviously in awe of favre and playing his heart out for the guy...so is the DLine the Jets paid for in the offseason, and the all-pro guard.

The jets are playing the weakest schedule in football this year. They bought a lot of talent in the offseason. BF is still a good (not great) QB, but if anyone thinks that millionaire pro athletes are as in awe of him as some on this board they are nuts.

The packers "deprovement" is due to several factors. A first year starter at QB that is playing about as well as anyone could expect, but isn't a veteran. Injuries at every part of the roster. (name me a position group that hasn't been hurt.) and a damn tough schedule.

Kicker :lol: :wink:

The stength of this year's schedule is really overrated.

and as I edited above QB...and what about the incredibly weak schedule we played last year?? overrated also?

[Bretsky]

I have been entertaining the possibility that Favre brings an automatic swagger to a team that is pretty much unrelated to his actual performance or talent level at this point in his career.

This would explain in part both the Jets' improvement and the Packers' deprovement (my new word). Maybe losing Favre caused this team to lose its sense of invinicibility - that they couldn't lose cuz they had Favre. At least not til the weather got cold...

coles is obviously in awe of favre and playing his heart out for the guy...so is the DLine the Jets paid for in the offseason, and the all-pro guard.

The jets are playing the weakest schedule in football this year. They bought a lot of talent in the offseason. BF is still a good (not great) QB, but if anyone thinks that millionaire pro athletes are as in awe of him as some on this board they are nuts.

The packers "deprovement" is due to several factors. A first year starter at QB that is playing about as well as anyone could expect, but isn't a veteran. Injuries at every part of the roster. (name me a position group that hasn't been hurt.) and a damn tough schedule.

Kicker :lol: :wink:

The stength of this year's schedule is really overrated.

and as I edited above QB...and what about the incredibly weak schedule we played last year?? overrated also?


I've always said last year's schedule was weak as well