Packers running game

[Patler]

A couple things I just don't get:

In 6 games since the bye, Grant has 110 carries for 516 yards.
Jackson has 24 carries for 138 yards.
Combined, they have 134 carries for 654 yards, about a 4.9/carry average.

Why is the running game such a small part of the offense? (22 carries/game in the last 6)
Why does the running game start so poorly every season?
Why does MM talk about playing a physical style, yet call plays differently?

[Partial]

All valid questions that I would love to hear the answers to.

[Patler]

All valid questions that I would love to hear the answers to.

Do you think MM would grant me an interview?? :lol: :lol:

[Zool]

How many of those 22 carries are in the first half vs the second half? I dont honestly know I'm wondering though. Is it because the team is behind each week and slips back into pass attack mode?

[Bossman641]

MM gives up on the run way too easily IMO. Not only does he give up on it, but he also completely even throws out the threat of it when he goes to the 5 wide. I hate seeing that formation on 3rd and short. Play-action passing is one of the strengths of this team, and that is what they should be using to their advantage when it comes to 3rd downs.

The other thing that burns me up is Jackson did not get a single carry yesterday. I really don't understand how you let that happen. He has been the one showing burst the past couple of weeks. Get him the damn ball.

[red]

i was shocked when i found out that grant was ranked 11th in the league in yards (now at 9th)

it sure seemed like our running game has been less then stellar this year. but yet he's going to have a good year

and i have no clue why it always starts off so slow, but i'm getting tired of it

[Patler]

i was shocked when i found out that grant was ranked 11th in the league in yards (now at 9th)

it sure seemed like our running game has been less then stellar this year. but yet he's going to have a good year

and i have no clue why it always starts off so slow, but i'm getting tired of it

Grant has recovered nicely after his slow start. He has his average up to 4 yards/carry after being barely over 3/carry earlier in the season.

[bobblehead]

We start slow cuz you can't cut your own guys in practice so the only practice you get is in games. Add to that our guys only have a few years of NFL and/or ZBS experience and you get slow starts. Also, many more teams run ZBS, so teams are getting better against it.

TT and MM are having trouble practicing what they preach....Dominate the line of scrimage, good OL and DL, top 5 defense. Run the ball. Like Holmgren in the past MM seems to think that down by 7 in the first quarter is a shotgun must pass situation.

I hate the shotgun. ARod is a first year starter, he doesn't have the ability to diagnose a D quick enough to compensate for the fact that the other team is about to pin the ears back and ignore the run....add to it that we didn't run out of shotgun for the first 8 weeks and it was even worse.

All this being said I don't think we are as bad as we look atm. But old Crusty Christl had one thing right when we were 8-8....all the top players are on the wrong side of 30 and we don't/didn't have any 3-4 year guys who were developing and getting ready to step in (as a result of Sherman's drafts without mark hatley). Now as we have adequately replaced the garbage on the roster and filled the holes inherited from Shermy guys like Clifton and Tauscher are starting to slip....its a bad cycle. TT and MM will get 2 more years to adequately reshape this team, and I believe they will/are doing a good job of it. In 4 years we got a good QB, about 4 impact players and good depth. Now we need about 2-3 more impact players and shore up some areas and we should be pretty good next year if injuries don't get as ugly as this year.

[cpk1994]

We start slow cuz you can't cut your own guys in practice so the only practice you get is in games. Add to that our guys only have a few years of NFL and/or ZBS experience and you get slow starts. Also, many more teams run ZBS, so teams are getting better against it.

TT and MM are having trouble practicing what they preach....Dominate the line of scrimage, good OL and DL, top 5 defense. Run the ball. Like Holmgren in the past MM seems to think that down by 7 in the first quarter is a shotgun must pass situation.

I hate the shotgun. ARod is a first year starter, he doesn't have the ability to diagnose a D quick enough to compensate for the fact that the other team is about to pin the ears back and ignore the run....add to it that we didn't run out of shotgun for the first 8 weeks and it was even worse.

All this being said I don't think we are as bad as we look atm. But old Crusty Christl had one thing right when we were 8-8....all the top players are on the wrong side of 30 and we don't/didn't have any 3-4 year guys who were developing and getting ready to step in (as a result of Sherman's drafts without mark hatley). Now as we have adequately replaced the garbage on the roster and filled the holes inherited from Shermy guys like Clifton and Tauscher are starting to slip....its a bad cycle. TT and MM will get 2 more years to adequately reshape this team, and I believe they will/are doing a good job of it. In 4 years we got a good QB, about 4 impact players and good depth. Now we need about 2-3 more impact players and shore up some areas and we should be pretty good next year if injuries don't get as ugly as this year.Ohe small correction. Holmgren almost never used the shotgun.

[texaspackerbacker]

Clearly, the running game started slow both seasons because of injuries--Grant this year, and all who came before Grant last year.

As for why the running game isn't used more, how about because we have a great passing game? Arguably, the running game is OVERUSED--way too often running it into the line and setting up 2nd or 3rd and long before passing.

What gets me is that the Packers almost invariably repeat plays, running plays, especially. You have a success--Grant gaining 15 or 20 yards, then they come right back to the same thing--or a fairly similar run--as if they figure the other team is too dumb to adjust. This is the NFL. It doesn't work that way.

I will throw a bone to the Favre-ophiles here too. The running game is less effective notso much because Favre was so good or better than Rodgers, but because he got more respect. How many times have we seen Grant almost break a big run this year, but the last man trips him up? Possibly, last year with Favre, that safety would have been deeper in coverage or whatever, and not able to get Grant.

[prsnfoto]

Clearly, the running game started slow both seasons because of injuries--Grant this year, and all who came before Grant last year.

As for why the running game isn't used more, how about because we have a great passing game? Arguably, the running game is OVERUSED--way too often running it into the line and setting up 2nd or 3rd and long before passing.

What gets me is that the Packers almost invariably repeat plays, running plays, especially. You have a success--Grant gaining 15 or 20 yards, then they come right back to the same thing--or a fairly similar run--as if they figure the other team is too dumb to adjust. This is the NFL. It doesn't work that way.

I will throw a bone to the Favre-ophiles here too. The running game is less effective notso much because Favre was so good or better than Rodgers, but because he got more respect. How many times have we seen Grant almost break a big run this year, but the last man trips him up? Possibly, last year with Favre, that safety would have been deeper in coverage or whatever, and not able to get Grant.


Yes our passing game is so good that the other team leads time of possession because of all the three and outs resulting in a defense that produces 4 turnovers but gets lit up for over 500 yards because they are on the field all day yet only give up 24 points that is how good DillRod and and his sidekick umpa lumpa McCarthy are at calling games. The above is why you RUN THE BALL if you can we can we DON"T because we have a BAD COACH.

[texaspackerbacker]

Clearly, the running game started slow both seasons because of injuries--Grant this year, and all who came before Grant last year.

As for why the running game isn't used more, how about because we have a great passing game? Arguably, the running game is OVERUSED--way too often running it into the line and setting up 2nd or 3rd and long before passing.

What gets me is that the Packers almost invariably repeat plays, running plays, especially. You have a success--Grant gaining 15 or 20 yards, then they come right back to the same thing--or a fairly similar run--as if they figure the other team is too dumb to adjust. This is the NFL. It doesn't work that way.

I will throw a bone to the Favre-ophiles here too. The running game is less effective notso much because Favre was so good or better than Rodgers, but because he got more respect. How many times have we seen Grant almost break a big run this year, but the last man trips him up? Possibly, last year with Favre, that safety would have been deeper in coverage or whatever, and not able to get Grant.


Yes our passing game is so good that the other team leads time of possession because of all the three and outs resulting in a defense that produces 4 turnovers but gets lit up for over 500 yards because they are on the field all day yet only give up 24 points that is how good DillRod and and his sidekick umpa lumpa McCarthy are at calling games. The above is why you RUN THE BALL if you can we can we DON"T because we have a BAD COACH.

I'd stop way short of calling McCarthy a BAD coach. There are some things I don't like about his play calling, though, too. Do you really think we can just line up and run teams into oblivion? Hell no. There is too much trying to do that now--consistently running on first down and often on second down too. That's how you get the 3 and outs. I think McCarthy has been overly cautious with Rodgers this year. Hopefully, he will break out of that next season. You don't get 4.9 per carry by running it into the line, etc. You get it by setting up the run with the passing game and using the run as the element of surprise--NOT the other way around, as some in here seem to be saying they want more of.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yes our passing game is so good that the other team leads time of possession because of all the three and outs resulting in a defense that produces 4 turnovers but gets lit up for over 500 yards because they are on the field all day yet only give up 24 points that is how good DillRod and and his sidekick umpa lumpa McCarthy are at calling games. The above is why you RUN THE BALL if you can we can we DON"T because we have a BAD COACH.

Since we rank in the top 12 in time of possession, what's the excuse for the defense in the rest of the games? Our time of possession is above the Titans and Vikings. Yet, their defenses seem to manage a big stop when they need it.

[Bossman641]

Clearly, the running game started slow both seasons because of injuries--Grant this year, and all who came before Grant last year.

As for why the running game isn't used more, how about because we have a great passing game? Arguably, the running game is OVERUSED--way too often running it into the line and setting up 2nd or 3rd and long before passing.

What gets me is that the Packers almost invariably repeat plays, running plays, especially. You have a success--Grant gaining 15 or 20 yards, then they come right back to the same thing--or a fairly similar run--as if they figure the other team is too dumb to adjust. This is the NFL. It doesn't work that way.

I will throw a bone to the Favre-ophiles here too. The running game is less effective notso much because Favre was so good or better than Rodgers, but because he got more respect. How many times have we seen Grant almost break a big run this year, but the last man trips him up? Possibly, last year with Favre, that safety would have been deeper in coverage or whatever, and not able to get Grant.


Yes our passing game is so good that the other team leads time of possession because of all the three and outs resulting in a defense that produces 4 turnovers but gets lit up for over 500 yards because they are on the field all day yet only give up 24 points that is how good DillRod and and his sidekick umpa lumpa McCarthy are at calling games. The above is why you RUN THE BALL if you can we can we DON"T because we have a BAD COACH.

What about the previous 2 weeks then? Against the Saints we won the time of possession 32-28. Against Carolina we dominated the TOP 38-22.

I want MM to run the ball more, but there is more than one way to win the possession battle. The defense should have been well-rested in those games and they still gave up 51 and 35 points. I'm not buying the TOP argument as the reason why they struggled yesterday. It's much more simple, they simply aren't that good.

[prsnfoto]

He gives up the run too early and couple that with the fact we score fast alot(I realize scoring is good but they have way too many three and outs) wouldn't ya think if you know the D is bad you try to keep them of the field longer? Rodgers throws a beautiful deep ball but it seems at least to me he has a hard time managing a typical West Coast drive like Favre could ya know those nice 80 yard 10 minute drives.

[Bossman641]

He gives up the run too early and couple that with the fact we score fast alot(I realize scoring is good but they have way too many three and outs) wouldn't ya think if you know the D is bad you try to keep them of the field longer? Rodgers throws a beautiful deep ball but it seems at least to me he has a hard time managing a typical West Coast drive like Favre could ya know those nice 80 yard 10 minute drives.

Hmm interesting, I see it as the other way around. Seems to me like most TD drives have been long 10 play, 80+ yard drives. I don't think there have been nearly enough quick scores this year, especially regarding the running game. Last year Grant busted off numerous long TD runs. This year, 10 yards is a long run for him.

[prsnfoto]

Clearly, the running game started slow both seasons because of injuries--Grant this year, and all who came before Grant last year.

As for why the running game isn't used more, how about because we have a great passing game? Arguably, the running game is OVERUSED--way too often running it into the line and setting up 2nd or 3rd and long before passing.

What gets me is that the Packers almost invariably repeat plays, running plays, especially. You have a success--Grant gaining 15 or 20 yards, then they come right back to the same thing--or a fairly similar run--as if they figure the other team is too dumb to adjust. This is the NFL. It doesn't work that way.

I will throw a bone to the Favre-ophiles here too. The running game is less effective notso much because Favre was so good or better than Rodgers, but because he got more respect. How many times have we seen Grant almost break a big run this year, but the last man trips him up? Possibly, last year with Favre, that safety would have been deeper in coverage or whatever, and not able to get Grant.


Yes our passing game is so good that the other team leads time of possession because of all the three and outs resulting in a defense that produces 4 turnovers but gets lit up for over 500 yards because they are on the field all day yet only give up 24 points that is how good DillRod and and his sidekick umpa lumpa McCarthy are at calling games. The above is why you RUN THE BALL if you can we can we DON"T because we have a BAD COACH.

What about the previous 2 weeks then? Against the Saints we won the time of possession 32-28. Against Carolina we dominated the TOP 38-22.

I want MM to run the ball more, but there is more than one way to win the possession battle. The defense should have been well-rested in those games and they still gave up 51 and 35 points. I'm not buying the TOP argument as the reason why they struggled yesterday. It's much more simple, they simply aren't that good.


Carolina was a well played game I don't dispute that, are you really gonna use the Saints game THEY were scoring in about 30 seconds each time because the D was bad and Arod was trying to match Brett's Rams performance but came up short by 3 picks, the only difference was as bad as the D played they were only down by three when the yee haws started we probably would have lost anyway but that game should have been a whoever had the ball last wins game but they started giving the Saints TO's.

[Patler]

There are some interesting stats from yesterday's game:

Average gain per offensive play - Houston 7.4, Packers 7.4
Average gain per rushing play - Houston 4.5, Packers 5.4
Average gain per passing play - Houston 9.5, Packers 8.7
All return yardages (punts, kickoffs, interceptions) were similar.

The big difference?
Third down efficiency - Houston 7/13, Packers 1/10

The Packer offense was productive, but not on third downs.
A holding penalty killed one they picked up on 3rd and 10. They missed the 3rd and 20.
On third and short early in the game, twice they threw long.
Third and five was ruined by a sack.
Third and three was intercepted.

I think they passed on every third down play.

I'm not saying any of this means anything in particular, just interesting to consider.

[Patler]

Carolina was a well played game I don't dispute that, are you really gonna use the Saints game THEY were scoring in about 30 seconds each time because the D was bad and Arod was trying to match Brett's Rams performance but came up short by 3 picks, the only difference was as bad as the D played they were only down by three when the yee haws started we probably would have lost anyway but that game should have been a whoever had the ball last wins game but they started giving the Saints TO's.

I believe only one of the interceptions lead to points. Possession on one was gotten right back on an interception. The defense gave up most of those points without the interceptions from Rodgers.

[Fritz]

I'm just going to say this: the empty backfield drives me crazy. Everybody and their mother and their mother's brother knows what you're going to do. On third and 15, that's okay. On third and four, shouldn't you at least be able to threaten to run?

[texaspackerbacker]

3rd and 4 is when you should use the empty backfield. It gives all single coverage, and if even one out of five is open, you've got an easy quick first down. Running on 3rd and 4 is a low percentage play for any team unless it's a surprise--passing formation or whatever. 3rd and 15 and five receivers the QB doesn't have time to get somebody open far enough down field.

[Gunakor]

Clearly, the running game started slow both seasons because of injuries--Grant this year, and all who came before Grant last year.

As for why the running game isn't used more, how about because we have a great passing game? Arguably, the running game is OVERUSED--way too often running it into the line and setting up 2nd or 3rd and long before passing.

What gets me is that the Packers almost invariably repeat plays, running plays, especially. You have a success--Grant gaining 15 or 20 yards, then they come right back to the same thing--or a fairly similar run--as if they figure the other team is too dumb to adjust. This is the NFL. It doesn't work that way.

I will throw a bone to the Favre-ophiles here too. The running game is less effective notso much because Favre was so good or better than Rodgers, but because he got more respect. How many times have we seen Grant almost break a big run this year, but the last man trips him up? Possibly, last year with Favre, that safety would have been deeper in coverage or whatever, and not able to get Grant.


Yes our passing game is so good that the other team leads time of possession because of all the three and outs resulting in a defense that produces 4 turnovers but gets lit up for over 500 yards because they are on the field all day yet only give up 24 points that is how good DillRod and and his sidekick umpa lumpa McCarthy are at calling games. The above is why you RUN THE BALL if you can we can we DON"T because we have a BAD COACH.

Green Bay has owned TOP in most of it's games this year. We got owned in TOP yesterday, but that is a real rarity for this team this year.

"DillRod" as you so eloquently describe a top 10 QB in the NFL does not call games. He has nothing to do with that. He runs the plays sent into the huddle by McCarthy. He'll audible at the line if he sees a mismatch, but he doesn't call plays or come up with gameplans. To lump him in with McCarthy in this regard is extremely ignorant.

Learn to use a fucking comma once and awhile...

[Partial]

How many of those 22 carries are in the first half vs the second half? I dont honestly know I'm wondering though. Is it because the team is behind each week and slips back into pass attack mode?

I was wondering this to, but there is also the possibility that we commit to the run in the first half and it doesn't work, thus we're playing catch up through the air in the second.

I would be curious to know the numbers of carries and their averages, as well as what down and distance those occur in.

Perhaps we need an insider at the Pack to get us these stats!