AJ Hawk

[Patler]

Is he still playing for the Packers? :lol:

In all seriousness, what has happened to him? Why are we talking about Desmond Bishop and impact plays he made from Hawk's former position, where Hawk made very few? Many argued that Hawk had been out of position and should be in the middle. Now he has been in the middle for 4 games and has been virtually unseen. He has been in on some tackles, sure, but he has had no impact on the games.

Hawk was described as a very instinctive player. That usually means a guy who senses and disrupts plays, making the big play to stop a first down, force a turnover, etc. I am seeing none of that from Hawk.

I expected more.

[3irty1]

On the radio I heard a post game show where they were hypothesizing that AJ Hawk has bulked up and lost some of his speed making him a different type of player. Kind of makes sense because it does look like he has gotten bigger.

[Patler]

On the radio I heard a post game show where they were hypothesizing that AJ Hawk has bulked up and lost some of his speed making him a different type of player. Kind of makes sense because it does look like he has gotten bigger.

I hadn't heard that. Who was suggesting that, fans or a reporter with information?
I would find that hard to believe. As in-tuned to physical conditioning as Hawk is, I would find it hard to believe that he would let that happen.

[KYPack]

Is he still playing for the Packers? :lol:

In all seriousness, what has happened to him? Why are we talking about Desmond Bishop and impact plays he made from Hawk's former position, where Hawk made very few? Many argued that Hawk had been out of position and should be in the middle. Now he has been in the middle for 4 games and has been virtually unseen. He has been in on some tackles, sure, but he has had no impact on the games.

Hawk was described as a very instinctive player. That usually means a guy who senses and disrupts plays, making the big play to stop a first down, force a turnover, etc. I am seeing none of that from Hawk.

I expected more.

I was pretty confident that Hawk would have a big year this go round. He seems to be hurt, with assorted groin and leg injuries, but....

The 3rd season is supposed to be the explosion year. The player has been thru 3 camps and has been in an NFL weight room for 24 or more months. He knows the job and should be reacting and not thinking.

Hawk got hurt in camp, but he showed no signs of making any kind of leap before he was injured. Obviously, he gets next year to show that he can make the big leap. But he doesn't seem like a difference maker guy, just a "make plays" guy.

Hawk's having a mediocre year in a bad season. Maybe he can get right and explode when the the team is having a big season next year.

But I really doubt it will happen. I think we got a decent player, but not a star.

[oregonpackfan]

Hawk has also appeared to struggle in pass coverage when placed at the middle linebacker position. Barnett has better pass coverage skills than Hawk, IMO.

[Patler]

I was pretty confident that Hawk would have a big year this go round. He seems to be hurt, with assorted groin and leg injuries, but....

The 3rd season is supposed to be the explosion year. The player has been thru 3 camps and has been in an NFL weight room for 24 or more months. He knows the job and should be reacting and not thinking.

Hawk got hurt in camp, but he showed no signs of making any kind of leap before he was injured. Obviously, he gets next year to show that he can make the big leap. But he doesn't seem like a difference maker guy, just a "make plays" guy.

Hawk's having a mediocre year in a bad season. Maybe he can get right and explode when the the team is having a big season next year.

But I really doubt it will happen. I think we got a decent player, but not a star.

I agree 100%. This should have been his year to really show something. Even injured players can show their talent and instincts in given situations, on specific plays, even if they can't do it on a regular basis. Hawk shows none of that. Decent player, but not a game changer, not a pro bowl type player.

Unfortunately, the Packers still need to find a linebacker who can make an impact in critical situations.

[prsnfoto]

I was pretty confident that Hawk would have a big year this go round. He seems to be hurt, with assorted groin and leg injuries, but....

The 3rd season is supposed to be the explosion year. The player has been thru 3 camps and has been in an NFL weight room for 24 or more months. He knows the job and should be reacting and not thinking.

Hawk got hurt in camp, but he showed no signs of making any kind of leap before he was injured. Obviously, he gets next year to show that he can make the big leap. But he doesn't seem like a difference maker guy, just a "make plays" guy.

Hawk's having a mediocre year in a bad season. Maybe he can get right and explode when the the team is having a big season next year.

But I really doubt it will happen. I think we got a decent player, but not a star.

I agree 100%. This should have been his year to really show something. Even injured players can show their talent and instincts in given situations, on specific plays, even if they can't do it on a regular basis. Hawk shows none of that. Decent player, but not a game changer, not a pro bowl type player.

Unfortunately, the Packers still need to find a linebacker who can make an impact in critical situations.


Lets try to have faith I was ready to give up on Nick Collins last year to maybe AJ is a late bloomer course Nick was not the 5th pick in the draft either.

[Patler]

Lets try to have faith I was ready to give up on Nick Collins last year to maybe AJ is a late bloomer course Nick was not the 5th pick in the draft either.

I'm not giving up on Hawk, but my expectations have lessened.

The comparison to Collins is interesting. Collins was considered to be somewhat of a project; at the draft the coaches said Underwood was a better bet to start early than Collins. Hawk was described as "the most NFL-ready player" in his draft. With all that, Collins has always shown flashes of his potential. Every year we asked why he can't play more often the way he played in game such-and-such. Every year he had games in which he looked really really good, and had individual plays in other games that really made you take notice. I haven't seen many of those flashes, games or plays, from Hawk. An occasional play, but not very many.

[3irty1]

On the radio I heard a post game show where they were hypothesizing that AJ Hawk has bulked up and lost some of his speed making him a different type of player. Kind of makes sense because it does look like he has gotten bigger.

I hadn't heard that. Who was suggesting that, fans or a reporter with information?
I would find that hard to believe. As in-tuned to physical conditioning as Hawk is, I would find it hard to believe that he would let that happen.

It was Bill Michaels on 620.

[MTPackerfan]

Here is round 1 of the 2006 draft. Not sticking up for Hawk but am curious about who you guys think the Packers should have taken in round 1 of that draft. there are several RBs and Cromartie that appear to be working out pretty well in hind sight, plus Cutler, maybe Sims?

1. Houston - Mario Williams, DE North Carolina State
2. New Orleans - Reggie Bush, RB USC
3. Tennessee - Vince Young, QB Texas
4. N.Y. Jets - D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT Virginia
5. Green Bay - A.J. Hawk, LB Ohio State
6. San Francisco - Vernon Davis, TE Maryland
7. Oakland - Michael Huff, DB Texas
8. Buffalo - Donte Whitner, S Ohio State
9. Detroit - Ernie Sims, LB Florida State
10. Arizona - Matt Leinart, QB USC
11. Denver (from St. Louis) - Jay Cutler, QB Vanderbilt
12. Baltimore (from Cleveland) - Haloti Ngata, DT Oregon
13. Cleveland (from Baltimore) - Kamerion Wimbley, DE/OLB Florida State
14. Philadelphia - Broderick Bunkley, DT Florida State
15. St. Louis (from Atlanta through Denver) - Tye Hill, Cb Clemson
16. Miami - Jason Allen, DB Tennessee
17. Minnesota - Chad Greenway, LB Iowa
18. Dallas - Bobby Carpenter, LB Ohio State
19. San Diego - Antonio Cromartie, CB Florida State
20. Kansas City - Tamba Hali, DE Penn State
21. New England - Laurence Maroney, RB Minnesota
22. San Francisco (from Washington through Denver) - Manny Lawson, DE/OLB North Carolina State
23. Tampa Bay - Davin Joseph, G Oklahoma
24. Cincinnati - Johnathan Joseph, CB South Carolina
25. Pittsburgh (from N.Y. Giants) - Santonio Holmes, WR Ohio State
26. Buffalo (from Chicago) - John McCargo, DT North Carolina State
27. Carolina - DeAngelo Williams, RB Memphis
28. Jacksonville - Marcedes Lewis, TE UCLA
29. NY Jets (from Denver through Atlanta) - Nick Mangold, C Ohio State
30. Indianapolis - Joseph Addai, RB LSU
31. Seattle - Kelly Jennings, CB Miami (FL)
32. N.Y. Giants (from Pittsburgh) - Mathias Kiwanuka, DE Boston College

[prsnfoto]

Lets try to have faith I was ready to give up on Nick Collins last year to maybe AJ is a late bloomer course Nick was not the 5th pick in the draft either.

I'm not giving up on Hawk, but my expectations have lessened.

The comparison to Collins is interesting. Collins was considered to be somewhat of a project; at the draft the coaches said Underwood was a better bet to start early than Collins. Hawk was described as "the most NFL-ready player" in his draft. With all that, Collins has always shown flashes of his potential. Every year we asked why he can't play more often the way he played in game such-and-such. Every year he had games in which he looked really really good, and had individual plays in other games that really made you take notice. I haven't seen many of those flashes, games or plays, from Hawk. An occasional play, but not very many.

What bothers me is he was a beast in college and I think our whole defense is soft no one scares anybody, Bigby a little last year but I have to wonder if MM's belief in no contact and very little pad practices and camps have made this team a bunch of pansies.

[Patler]

What bothers me is he was a beast in college and I think our whole defense is soft no one scares anybody, Bigby a little last year but I have to wonder if MM's belief in no contact and very little pad practices and camps have made this team a bunch of pansies.

Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it? Hawk was not a wildman in college, but certainly was a tough, physical linebacker. The only players with physical reputations on the defense now are Harris and Woodson, who can beat up receivers pretty well.

[denverYooper]

Here is round 1 of the 2006 draft. Not sticking up for Hawk but am curious about who you guys think the Packers should have taken in round 1 of that draft. there are several RBs and Cromartie that appear to be working out pretty well in hind sight, plus Cutler, maybe Sims?


This guy's had a good couple of years:


12. Baltimore (from Cleveland) - Haloti Ngata, DT Oregon

[prsnfoto]

For that matter as sad as it is to say Ernie Sims looks better than Hawk also.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Hawk, like Collins, will play great in his fourth year.

[run pMc]

Trade the R1 with Baltimore down for their R1 and R3 and take Ngata.
Trade the R3 from BAL and GB's R2 to HOU for their R2 and take Demeco Ryan.

You have a very good LB and a run stuffing DT.

Of course, that assumes BAL & HOU would be willing trading partners...

Hindsight is 20/20, and so this "what if?" stuff is rather pointless.

[3irty1]

Hawk hasn't exactly been bad. Hasn't lived up to our wildest hopes but in past seasons he's been a consistent and solid player for us. This year he seems to have taken a step back along with all of our other linebackers.

[Fritz]

For that matter as sad as it is to say Ernie Sims looks better than Hawk also.

I disagree. Sims had a wonderful first year - he flew around and made lots of plays. His play has diminished since.

As for Hawk, wasn't there a poster here - that knew someone that knew someone's girlfriend who was a friend of someone's wife who knew Hawk - who wrote that in fact Hawk was hurt far worse this year then he let on. This would explain why he seems worse this year than last year.

I have noticed that he gets washed out of almost every play now. He rarely sheds blocks any more.

[HarveyWallbangers]

For that matter as sad as it is to say Ernie Sims looks better than Hawk also.

Hawk has had a bad year, and there are guys I'd rather have than Hawk on that list, but Ernie Sims is overrated. Dude has 2 sacks, 1 interception, and 4 pass deflections in 3 years. That makes Hawk's 6.5 sacks, 3 interceptions, and 12 pass deflections look stellar. Now, I don't just go off stats. I think they've probably been pretty equal. Both had decent first and second years, but have disappointed in their third year.

[Bretsky]

Is he still playing for the Packers? :lol:

In all seriousness, what has happened to him? Why are we talking about Desmond Bishop and impact plays he made from Hawk's former position, where Hawk made very few? Many argued that Hawk had been out of position and should be in the middle. Now he has been in the middle for 4 games and has been virtually unseen. He has been in on some tackles, sure, but he has had no impact on the games.

Hawk was described as a very instinctive player. That usually means a guy who senses and disrupts plays, making the big play to stop a first down, force a turnover, etc. I am seeing none of that from Hawk.

I expected more.


I was listening to the Packer Flagship the other day and they made a point about AJ Hawk that I had not considered

Hawk had a pretty decent rookie campaign. And his mojo was speed. He had ok strength but his speed is what made him a special player

After year one and year two the coaches stressed to Hawk how they wanted him to bulk up and get stronger.........stronger

He's been a monster in the weight room and is stronger

But they think he's lost some speed, which is what made him special.

Not sure what I think but it was interesting to hear

[Bretsky]

On the radio I heard a post game show where they were hypothesizing that AJ Hawk has bulked up and lost some of his speed making him a different type of player. Kind of makes sense because it does look like he has gotten bigger.


OOPS

I just posted what you said much better

[retailguy]

What bothers me is he was a beast in college and I think our whole defense is soft no one scares anybody, Bigby a little last year but I have to wonder if MM's belief in no contact and very little pad practices and camps have made this team a bunch of pansies.

Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it? Hawk was not a wildman in college, but certainly was a tough, physical linebacker. The only players with physical reputations on the defense now are Harris and Woodson, who can beat up receivers pretty well.

I suggested last week that the difference in the way the defense played was Nick Barnett. No one seemed to reply or agree...

I agree that Hawk appears lost in the middle, but I wonder, is it just that he can't handle the line calls, and as a result everyone else is confused? There sure seemed to be a lot of "tentative" defenders against Houston. It was almost seeming that I knew what the play was going to be and where they were going before the defense did. And I'm not that fast or perceptive usually.

Hawk has played much, much better at the weak side than he has at middle linebacker. The drop off in the front 4 hasn't helped either, and I believe is the biggest reason Barnett was having a difficult year before he got hurt.

Kind of reminds me of the year Urlacher was having a couple years back when all the talking heads thought he was washed up. Turns out that wasn't accurate, I think that was the year Tank Johnson, and the other guy got hurt....

Makes me wonder at least.

[b bulldog]

Hawk waS a player that had studs around him in college which made him look better than he really was. The same thing happens to a lot of offensive players from USC. Hawk is average in my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. I am terribly disappointed in his lack of physicality. I thought he would be a much more tough player. In the end, I think he was maxed out potential wise before he stepped foot on Lambeau.

[bobblehead]

I actually wanted to trade down to around 15 and pick antonio cromartie. I know, no one believes me, but it is documented in the JSonline archives somewhere. Part of my logic is that half the top picks flop and paying all that money for top picks is often a waste.

I don't see hawk breaking out. Collins always had mad skills, but no head. He finally clicked in his role and is showing the combination of skills and knowledge just now first.

All of our LBs suck. Poppinga I cut slack cuz he was asked to learn coverage in the pros after being a DE in college. He is a beast against the run which is what we want from him. but honestly, how many dump passes to RBs and TEs on third and 11 have to go for a first down before we fix this ineptness at pass coverage from our LBs??

[bobblehead]

What bothers me is he was a beast in college and I think our whole defense is soft no one scares anybody, Bigby a little last year but I have to wonder if MM's belief in no contact and very little pad practices and camps have made this team a bunch of pansies.

Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it? Hawk was not a wildman in college, but certainly was a tough, physical linebacker. The only players with physical reputations on the defense now are Harris and Woodson, who can beat up receivers pretty well.

I third this, I keep saying a team performs like it practices. How many shitty vikings teams started off 4-0 because they played hard in camp, but by midseason when other teams caught up due to game time the vikes would fall off the map. How many bad coldweather games do we have to start poorly because we aren't used to playing in it? If you are not hitting in practice you play softer. If you are hitting in practice you are adjusting to it, aware of how to make contact to avoid injuries. I just am a firm believer in practicing what you want to do on the field. How do you expect a guy to execute a good cut block if you NEVER let him do it in practice??

[b bulldog]

As did I and most in here that were around than would admit to that. We could have traded down and easily picked a player that has performed as well as Hawk has.

[bobblehead]

Is he still playing for the Packers? :lol:

In all seriousness, what has happened to him? Why are we talking about Desmond Bishop and impact plays he made from Hawk's former position, where Hawk made very few? Many argued that Hawk had been out of position and should be in the middle. Now he has been in the middle for 4 games and has been virtually unseen. He has been in on some tackles, sure, but he has had no impact on the games.

Hawk was described as a very instinctive player. That usually means a guy who senses and disrupts plays, making the big play to stop a first down, force a turnover, etc. I am seeing none of that from Hawk.

I expected more.


I was listening to the Packer Flagship the other day and they made a point about AJ Hawk that I had not considered

Hawk had a pretty decent rookie campaign. And his mojo was speed. He had ok strength but his speed is what made him a special player

After year one and year two the coaches stressed to Hawk how they wanted him to bulk up and get stronger.........stronger

He's been a monster in the weight room and is stronger

But they think he's lost some speed, which is what made him special.

Not sure what I think but it was interesting to hear

Don't really buy this. 25 year olds who are monsters in the weight room don't lose speed unless they put on A LOT of weight. 35 year olds...maybe.

[Noodle]

First, no way the weight work should affect his speed. These guys don't run 1600 meters. They need to explode for 10 to 20 yards, and weight work will help with that not hurt it. And like Patler said, trainers are there to keep you from lifting your way out of speed.

Second, I think the transition to Mike is way harder than people understand. A Will has a sideline to work with and can attack plays at an angle. A Mike has to work in much greater space, with more blocker angles to worry about, and often has a near-head-on responsibility for a tackle. This is in fact harder than an angle tackle because the RB can see you too, so you have to worry about wrapping up instead of going for the kill shot.

Add to that the play calls, and now you've got a guy who has to think instead of read and react.

The one thing I hope is that the guys who ride Barnett's arse, and who have whined over the last 2/3 years that Hawk is a "protogype" Mike, will have a big spoonful of STFU.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The scheme of the defense has much to do with this, IMO. Our LBs are not asked to attack like the Iggles, Bucs, Steelers, Ravens etc. I think if Hawk were in a better defensive scheme he would be doing better. I just don't think he's being put into a position to succeed to start with.

[Patler]

The scheme of the defense has much to do with this, IMO. Our LBs are not asked to attack like the Iggles, Bucs, Steelers, Ravens etc. I think if Hawk were in a better defensive scheme he would be doing better. I just don't think he's being put into a position to succeed to start with.

I look at it just the opposite. The linebackers are expected to be the ones making the plays in this defense. The DTs are there to keep the linebackers clean. Hawk has had opportunities against the run and in coverage, he just hasn't made significant plays. The only thing they aren't asked to do a lot is blitz.

[Bretsky]

The scheme of the defense has much to do with this, IMO. Our LBs are not asked to attack like the Iggles, Bucs, Steelers, Ravens etc. I think if Hawk were in a better defensive scheme he would be doing better. I just don't think he's being put into a position to succeed to start with.

I look at it just the opposite. The linebackers are expected to be the ones making the plays in this defense. The DTs are there to keep the linebackers clean. Hawk has had opportunities against the run and in coverage, he just hasn't made significant plays. The only thing they aren't asked to do a lot is blitz.


On the other hand, in this Vanilla system a piss poor DL (which we have) that can't hold up the blocks will destroy the capability of a LB to make plays

Hawk needs to be able to attack and flow to the ball; the blockers are getting to him. And he can't shed them.

It's a combo of the system sucking wind, the DL sucking wind, and Hawk being very average.

[Patler]

On the other hand, in this Vanilla system a piss poor DL (which we have) that can't hold up the blocks will destroy the capability of a LB to make plays

Hawk needs to be able to attack and flow to the ball; the blockers are getting to him. And he can't shed them.

It's a combo of the system sucking wind, the DL sucking wind, and Hawk being very average.

That's a convenient excuse, but one I don't buy completely. Hawk is showing nothing. In far fewer opportunities Chiller has made plays in coverage and against the run. Bishop did too. When was the last time Hawk made a stop for -3 on a play like Bishop did yesterday?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hawk has had a bad year, plain and simple. I think he was good his first two years. He looks much worse than his first two years. For now, I'll assume that injuries have more to do with it than him bulking up too much. Next year is very important for him.

[Bretsky]

On the other hand, in this Vanilla system a piss poor DL (which we have) that can't hold up the blocks will destroy the capability of a LB to make plays

Hawk needs to be able to attack and flow to the ball; the blockers are getting to him. And he can't shed them.

It's a combo of the system sucking wind, the DL sucking wind, and Hawk being very average.

That's a convenient excuse, but one I don't buy completely. Hawk is showing nothing. In far fewer opportunities Chiller has made plays in coverage and against the run. Bishop did too. When was the last time Hawk made a stop for -3 on a play like Bishop did yesterday?

I won't argue with that; hate to say it but Chillar, to me, has been our best LB this year. Bishop shows flashes but he also makes terrible plays. I think Chillar may be our best LB this year.

[texaspackerbacker]

The scheme of the defense has much to do with this, IMO. Our LBs are not asked to attack like the Iggles, Bucs, Steelers, Ravens etc. I think if Hawk were in a better defensive scheme he would be doing better. I just don't think he's being put into a position to succeed to start with.

I look at it just the opposite. The linebackers are expected to be the ones making the plays in this defense. The DTs are there to keep the linebackers clean. Hawk has had opportunities against the run and in coverage, he just hasn't made significant plays. The only thing they aren't asked to do a lot is blitz.

Very astute observations, Patler.

The hope to cling to at this point, and it's a fairly strong hope, I think, is that Hawk is diminished by playing hurt. Chalk up the first two years to inexperience and this one to the injuries--maybe.

It all kinda makes you appreciate a GM who likes to trade down, doesn't it?

[KYPack]

For that matter as sad as it is to say Ernie Sims looks better than Hawk also.

I disagree. Sims had a wonderful first year - he flew around and made lots of plays. His play has diminished since.

As for Hawk, wasn't there a poster here - that knew someone that knew someone's girlfriend who was a friend of someone's wife who knew Hawk - who wrote that in fact Hawk was hurt far worse this year then he let on. This would explain why he seems worse this year than last year.

I have noticed that he gets washed out of almost every play now. He rarely sheds blocks any more.

It was me with the "he said she said" post about Hawk.

There was a small article in the Dayton Daily News about Dayton area players that made their mark in football. The story was about what a stud AJ Hawk was in HS, etc. The story also quoted a family member who had spoken to Hawk about the coming season. This family member stated that Hawk's chest injury was very painful and had limited him severely. Hawk had stated to the family member that he felt he wouldn't play the first month or so of the '08 season and hoped he would heal to play well this year.

That was the only news to that effect I heard about it. Hawk had progressed slower than I hoped, but he had improved in the second half of the season his first two years. This year? not shit, really. I can't help but wonder if he wasn't damaged goods all year and never was capable of deliverying the breakout we all wanted.

This season seems to have a list of guys that didn't deliver with a superstar year.

Jones
Hawk
Bigby
Either one of the two anonymous fullbacks

All seemed like young guys who could explode, but got hurt and flopped.

[DonHutson]

First the chest injury, then the groin. I think that's the main reason for the lost year for Hawk. Basically the groin would mean he's slower getting to the play, and if the chest would mean he's less effective making tackles or shedding blocks. That would match what I've seen pretty well. He also seems like the type that would downplay injuries. The disastrous DL play doesn't help either.

I would write this season off as shit happening, and see what he does next year. The results have been underwhelming even prior to this year, but I think if Ted was going to spend top 5 money on a pick he didn't want to waste it on a bust. He went safe and took Hawk.

I suspect he'll pick up where he left off last year, and he'll end up as a good player for a long time. Maybe more John Anderson than Brian Urlacher, but there's worse things.

[Freak Out]

We should have just traded down and drafted Williams. Who the hell did we have at RB then anyway? Gado? Hindsight.......

[Patler]

I suspect he'll pick up where he left off last year, and he'll end up as a good player for a long time. Maybe more John Anderson than Brian Urlacher, but there's worse things.

If he plays like John Anderson, I will be satisfied. Anderson was a darn good, reliable linebacker. Very good in pass coverage. Hawk isn't there yet.

I'm willing to chalk this year up to injuries, and for the overall year to overall bad play by most of the defense. But the line isn't bad on every play, but Hawk has been nonexistent. Could be the injuries.
I thought his hyperbaric bedroom was supposed to take care of that!!?? :lol:

[DonHutson]

We should have just traded down and drafted Williams. Who the hell did we have at RB then anyway? Gado? Hindsight.......

Looking at that list is instructive. Everyone expects their first round pick to be great. How many truly great players on that list? Mario Williams. Reggie Bush. Antonio Cromartie. Joseph Addai. A few more are very good. At least half are disappointments.

[Patler]

We should have just traded down and drafted Williams. Who the hell did we have at RB then anyway? Gado? Hindsight.......

Looking at that list is instructive. Everyone expects their first round pick to be great. How many truly great players on that list? Mario Williams. Reggie Bush. Antonio Cromartie. Joseph Addai. A few more are very good. At least half are disappointments.

I'm not sure I would even include Bush in the list yet. He was a disappointment at first, had a nice start to this season, but if he is going to miss a bunch of games every season due to injuries, he, too, will be a disappointment.

[red]

i think everyone on the d side has taken a big step back this year. with the exceptions of woodson, and collins

[Packers4Ever]

Is he still playing for the Packers? :lol:

In all seriousness, what has happened to him? Why are we talking about Desmond Bishop and impact plays he made from Hawk's former position, where Hawk made very few? Many argued that Hawk had been out of position and should be in the middle. Now he has been in the middle for 4 games and has been virtually unseen. He has been in on some tackles, sure, but he has had no impact on the games.

Hawk was described as a very instinctive player. That usually means a guy who senses and disrupts plays, making the big play to stop a first down, force a turnover, etc. I am seeing none of that from Hawk.


I expected more.













































I was pretty confident that Hawk would have a big year this go round. He seems to be hurt, with assorted groin and leg injuries, but....

The 3rd season is supposed to be the explosion year. The player has been thru 3 camps and has been in an NFL weight room for 24 or more months. He knows the job and should be reacting and not thinking.

Hawk got hurt in camp, but he showed no signs of making any kind of leap before he was injured. Obviously, he gets next year to show that he can make the big leap. But he doesn't seem like a difference maker guy, just a "make plays" guy.

Hawk's having a mediocre year in a bad season. Maybe he can get right and explode when the the team is having a big season next year.

But I really doubt it will happen. I think we got a decent player, but not a star.

I read/heard there was still a problem with that chest and/or groin injury, sorry, wish I could remember where. Also don't forget he got married that summer before he started with the Pack - maybe something about his
eating habits now?

I think we got a decent player too, as KYP said, and with his youth he should get back into shape and once again be a dominating player.

[Freak Out]

He'll have a lot of time to get healthy here soon and hopefully study a new defensive scheme.

[Bretsky]

i think everyone on the d side has taken a big step back this year. with the exceptions of woodson, and collins

And Al Harris

[DonHutson]

I thought his hyperbaric bedroom was supposed to take care of that!!?? :lol:

Maybe someone is pumping helium into his oxygen tank. I blame the Bears. I don't think the Vikes could figure out the chemistry.

[GrnBay007]

I thought his hyperbaric bedroom was supposed to take care of that!!?? :lol:

Maybe someone is pumping helium into his oxygen tank. I blame the Bears. I don't think the Vikes could figure out the chemistry.

:lol: :lol:

[bobblehead]

i think everyone on the d side has taken a big step back this year. with the exceptions of woodson, and collins

And Al Harris

falco is gonna be so pissed at you guys.

[Bossman641]

I blame Hawk's poor year mostly on the injuries. I think he has been much more banged up then we have been led to believe.

If memory serves me right, he looked pretty good in preseason and training camp. Didn't he suffer the chest injury in the 3rd preseason game? And then when did he get the groin injury? He just looks so much slower this year, like he has no explosion at all. No way would that all be from lifting.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I blame Hawk's poor year mostly on the injuries. I think he has been much more banged up then we have been led to believe.

If memory serves me right, he looked pretty good in preseason and training camp. Didn't he suffer the chest injury in the 3rd preseason game? And then when did he get the groin injury? He just looks so much slower this year, like he has no explosion at all. No way would that all be from lifting.

Nice post.


Bottom line is Hawk can play. This was obvious at least to me after watching his first two years. He's been hurt this year and the d-line sucks, what do you really expect from him? If TT will spend some money and be aggressive in free agency to upgrade the d-line you will see a big improvement from Hawk next year (assuming he’s health for the opener).

[rbaloha1]

Always felt Hawk was slightly overrated.

Injuries are most likely hampering performance. Always felt Hawk looked slightly stiff and not fluid in the hips.

Hawk received too much pub imo -- probably because he is white. Once Hawk's contract expires let him become a free agent.

[Bossman641]

Once Hawk's contract expires let him become a free agent.

I think that might be a little bit of a rushed judgement. His first 2 years he looked solid, not spectacular, but somebody you could count on and who you would expect to continue to grow. This year he has looked much worse. But honestly, who among the front 7 has played well at all? I'd say not a single player there has met expectations. Maybe Chillar. Kampman has the sack numbers, but I'd even say this year is a slip from last year (doesn't help that he's the only one who is providing a rush).

[Fritz]

I suspect he'll pick up where he left off last year, and he'll end up as a good player for a long time. Maybe more John Anderson than Brian Urlacher, but there's worse things.

If he plays like John Anderson, I will be satisfied. Anderson was a darn good, reliable linebacker. Very good in pass coverage. Hawk isn't there yet.

I'm willing to chalk this year up to injuries, and for the overall year to overall bad play by most of the defense. But the line isn't bad on every play, but Hawk has been nonexistent. Could be the injuries.
I thought his hyperbaric bedroom was supposed to take care of that!!?? :lol:

I thought his wife was supposed to take care of that! (Flick of my cigar ashes; eyebrows raised).

[Cheesehead Craig]

The scheme of the defense has much to do with this, IMO. Our LBs are not asked to attack like the Iggles, Bucs, Steelers, Ravens etc. I think if Hawk were in a better defensive scheme he would be doing better. I just don't think he's being put into a position to succeed to start with.

I look at it just the opposite. The linebackers are expected to be the ones making the plays in this defense. The DTs are there to keep the linebackers clean. Hawk has had opportunities against the run and in coverage, he just hasn't made significant plays. The only thing they aren't asked to do a lot is blitz.

Have any of our LBs made consistent plays? There are moments where all of them look good, but none of them do it for any significant time. Is it that they are all not very good then? I just can't buy that. LBs are expected in every defense to make plays but why is it that ours cannot? If the problem is the same across the board, to me that's scheme.

[KYPack]

I blame Hawk's poor year mostly on the injuries. I think he has been much more banged up then we have been led to believe.

If memory serves me right, he looked pretty good in preseason and training camp. Didn't he suffer the chest injury in the 3rd preseason game? And then when did he get the groin injury? He just looks so much slower this year, like he has no explosion at all. No way would that all be from lifting.

Middle of the year, after the chest injury was supposedly clearing up.

I probably could look it up, Boss, but I'm allowing this season to become a blur.

Kind of like 2005, I getting a case of "not giving a shit-itis".

[MJZiggy]

Did you say something?

[Fritz]

I blame Hawk's poor year mostly on the injuries. I think he has been much more banged up then we have been led to believe.

If memory serves me right, he looked pretty good in preseason and training camp. Didn't he suffer the chest injury in the 3rd preseason game? And then when did he get the groin injury? He just looks so much slower this year, like he has no explosion at all. No way would that all be from lifting.

Middle of the year, after the chest injury was supposedly clearing up.

I probably could look it up, Boss, but I'm allowing this season to become a blur.

Kind of like 2005, I getting a case of "not giving a shit-itis".

It's a survival mechanism. I do the same. It's because we care so much.

[Patler]

JSO asking the same questions, and why Bishop could do what Hawk has not in terms of impact plays:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/35941344.html

[b bulldog]

It is funny, cause when 56 was the mlb, I was told by many in here that the D is designed for the mike backer to make most of the tackles. I was just wondering if that is still thge case when Hawk is in there or did they change it once Hak got to be the mlb?

[Fritz]

JSO asking the same questions, and why Bishop could do what Hawk has not in terms of impact plays:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/35941344.html

Makes you wonder if the JSO guys read Packerrats for story ideas. Or maybe it's just obvious Hawk is not playing well...

[denverYooper]

JSO asking the same questions, and why Bishop could do what Hawk has not in terms of impact plays:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/35941344.html

I like that Moss was pretty blunt about it: "A.J. needs to get going", instead of saying something like "he's been having good practices", "I didn't think he performed that badly, but we'll check the film and clean up things we need to clean up", etc.

[KYPack]

JSO asking the same questions, and why Bishop could do what Hawk has not in terms of impact plays:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/35941344.html

I like that Moss was pretty blunt about it: "A.J. needs to get going", instead of saying something like "he's been having good practices", "I didn't think he performed that badly, but we'll check the film and clean up things we need to clean up", etc.

I thought the same thing.

That was real candid language.

Stories like that don't usually come out of the Packer camp, espec. from a position coach.

[Pugger]

And maybe the entire defense needs a DC like that to tell it like it is!!! :wink:

[SMACKTALKIE]

And maybe the entire defense needs a DC like that to tell it like it is!!! :wink:


I think its a combination of DC and personnel. When Cottrell was DC for the Vikes teams ran all over the D. Fat Pat helped to ease that problem, but the D did'nt really take off until Tomlin came to town.

The Pack is hurting on the D line and Sanders is probably not the answer, but the Pack needs a DC that will fit the Pack's personnel. Tough spot.

P.S. Can anyone tell me if Sanders runs a 2 gap run D?

[RashanGary]

Bishop reminds me of EJ Henderson.

Hawk is barely average.

[cpk1994]

P.S. Can anyone tell me if Sanders runs a 2 gap run D?If you mean as in a defense that has 2 gaps for their opponents to run through, then yes. :lol:

[SMACKTALKIE]

P.S. Can anyone tell me if Sanders runs a 2 gap run D?If you mean as in a defense that has 2 gaps for their opponents to run through, then yes. :lol:

:lol: Good one. Thats what it looked like when Cottrell ran in Minnesota. It's only effective if the MLB really knows what he is doing. Hawk is a great athelete but does not seem a natural MLB.

[Merlin]

MLB is not an easy position and for as much as people hack on Barnett, his numbers mirror Urlachers. Hawk will be fine. I don't think he was prepared to lead the defense and I think to some extent that affects how he plays. Players have good games and bad ones. Everyone was so impressed with Hawk the first game he took over for Barnett, so what has changed? Granted Hawk hasn't been earth shattering on the outside this season either. So Bishop shows up for one game and all of a sudden Hawk sucks? I don't get the logic here, none of it. Overall Bishop is not as good as Hawk. One game does not a player make. In some cases not even one season. Start Bishop instead of Hawk (meaning Hawk is not on the field) for any length of time and tell me that he is better.

There is a lot more going on in the scheme of the defense then making the tackle, sometimes it's to force the play away from you and then obviously your chances of making the tackle are less and someone else's greater. Let's not start throwing Hawk under the bus. There is a reason Bishop hasn't been a starter.

[KYPack]

P.S. Can anyone tell me if Sanders runs a 2 gap run D?

Yeah, that is what we run 95% of the time.

The DT's play a 3 technique, two gap. The DE's play wide, also in a 2 gap.

The LB's are sheltered, inside the ends and deep as much as 6-7 yards deep in some sets.
Some have commented that the D is designed to have the linebackers make the tackles. That's quite true. The DLineman are tasked to keep the LB's clean and those backers are key men in this schemes' run fits.

The corners both play press coverage (when it's AH and CWood)

The safeties play in the center of the field at a medium depth.

Technically, the pass coverage is a cover 2. 2 safeties deep providing minimal support for the corners.

Many times I see posters state that we play a lot of man or that we play exclusively man to man unlike other teams. That's cool, but it isn't true. We play zone, a modified cover 2. Cover 2 has come to mean the Tampa 2, two safeties deep, over the corners. We play a modified cover two, with the safeties play centerfield at a half depth.

People get confused because of the corners being in press and the fact that the rest of the zone plays matchup. Matchup is a rules situation. You cover the man in your zone. In certain looks, when he leaves your zone, you stay with him. In other looks, the rules state that you stay in your patch, when the man leaves your zone, you stay and defend that part of the field

A while back, I was talking with an ex-NFL corner and safety now retired. We were discussing this same topic. He was explaining match-up to me and I wasn't getting it. I told him I didn't understand it and he laughed. he told me many people don't, especially guys that get cut from NFL teams.