Harrell - again.....

[Patler]

Hip injury, not practicing:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/35942759.html

[Tarlam!]

I'm really sick of this. I stuck to him since he's been on the team, but this is just shite. Time to cut the slack, even if it was a 1st rounder.

[b bulldog]

Cut his lazy, pathetic ass asap!

[Fritz]

They've got too much invested in the guy to cut him, but certainly this amps up the pressure for him to perform consistently and for a whole season next year.

Fuggin' Justin Harrell. Though Tex maintains it's just bad luck.

[KYPack]

This could be the sound of the other shoe hitting the floor.

After he didn't hit a lick after the NFCC (And basically lied to the coaches, they assumed he did his post-season routine) and hurting himself in off season weights, I had severe doubts.

This injury will screw up some of his post-season lifting. Back to square one again.

It looks like this kid won't work out.

I'm actually glad to hear he was hurt, he was totally ineffective this go-round as a player.

[red]

:roll:
jesus christ this guys useless

[Pugger]

Oh no. :? I was hoping this young man would turn the corner but he just can't stay on the field. How sad cuz he probably has some ability but with his health issues we may never know. But with all of our D line problems we really need him if only for an extra warm body in the rotation. :( I hope this teaches TT to NOT draft a kid in ANY round that has these kinds of health problems in the future! :roll:

[Pacopete4]

this kid is the biggest pussy in the league... thanks TT

[pbmax]

Well, maybe this will be the wakeup call Mark Murphy needs to finally get a GM that doesn't make any errors in the first round. :lol:

[Zool]

Well, maybe this will be the wakeup call Mark Murphy needs to finally get a GM that doesn't make any errors in the first round. :lol:

Exactly PB. Just think if we had.....umm...that one guy that hits every draft pic ever. If he was our GM, things would be rosy.

Oh yeah Nostradamus. Thats his name.

[Spaulding]

The pick of Harrell reminds of me the decision in 2003 where the Packers were deciding between Barnett and Boss Bailey. They obviously went with Barnett and most feel it was due to the concerns of Boss Bailey's past knee injuries and inability to stay healthy.

History comes full circle as TT drafts a player of potential who has been oft injured in the past and that's exactly what he's continued to be.

In hindsight, if only we had drafted Aaron Ross or Jon Beason instead.

[denverYooper]

Dammit. I keep holding out hope for the lad but this is ridiculous. He better get his ass on the field over the last 3 games and learn how to play injured. He'll have plenty of time to rest soon.

Time to get on the Alfred Malone bandwagon, he had 2 tackles and an assist last game and he's got a bitchin' goatee. Over a 5 game career he's had 9 tackles, 6 assists and 1.5 sacks. Hell yeah! Go #98! :lol:

[Freak Out]

Where does TT explain why he drafted this guy again? He was healthy one year in School and he takes him with the 16th pick. He has been nothing but injured here in GB...what a shocker. Blame it on the scouts......

[sharpe1027]

The Harrell pick looks more and more like it is sure to be seen as a mistake (with a slim possiblity of Harrell turning it around next year).

TT gets slammed by Packer fans for being too conservative. Yet, he took a chance on a guy that everyone said had a huge upside, but was risky due to an injury history. Now TT gets slammed because the risky move doesn't pan out. For a GM to not be considered conservative, the GM must make moves have a level of risk. Is it that hard to realize that non-conservative moves are more likely to fail?

I guess it is our job as Packer fans to complain about our GM, regardless of whether our complaints are inconsistent. He is not the first GM to miss on a mid-first round pick.

[RashanGary]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.

I agree that it was a risk. Thus far it hasn't panned out and doesn't look to be turning the corner. He'll get one more chance to stay healthy and go through a good off season of getting NFL strong. If it doesn't work out this offseason it will go down as an awful pick. Bad picks happen in the NFL though. A couple years ago NE cut every one of their draft picks. They didn't have one on their opening day roster. It happens. They drafted Adrian Klemm with their regimes first pick. He's junk. Over time the good have to outnumber the bad. I'm happy to criticize it, but lets have some perspective here. Bad picks happen. He'll have many, many more as will every other GM. He'll have other first round bad picks. So will every other GM. It happens.

[Guiness]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.


Sweet Jebus - JH the voice of reason! :lol:

Without RTFA, this is not good for him, and it is certainly another nail in the coffin. I can't see them cutting ties with him now, unless he's got a roster bonus coming up this offseason. But I have to think he's off the 'do not cut' list for next fall, and if he doesn't impress, he'll be gone.

Speaking of oft-injured, I see Fred Taylor is likely heading to IR. There's another guy who has just not been able to stay on the field, but he has managed to be very impressive when he's there. We'll never know, but he has shown enough to think he could've even been HOF caliber if he stayed healthy.

[bobblehead]

Guys that need BIG camps to stick next year:

Montgomery
Bush
Harrell
Wynn

I know there are more, but those are my 4 I want to see gone. Harrell will actually only need an average but healthy camp to stick, but I have hit the wall on patience. Not sure if he is working out properly or not, but he sure is injury prone be it bad genetics or bad work ethic.

[Freak Out]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.


Sweet Jebus - JH the voice of reason! :lol:

Without RTFA, this is not good for him, and it is certainly another nail in the coffin. I can't see them cutting ties with him now, unless he's got a roster bonus coming up this offseason. But I have to think he's off the 'do not cut' list for next fall, and if he doesn't impress, he'll be gone.

Speaking of oft-injured, I see Fred Taylor is likely heading to IR. There's another guy who has just not been able to stay on the field, but he has managed to be very impressive when he's there. We'll never know, but he has shown enough to think he could've even been HOF caliber if he stayed healthy.

Fred Taylor? The guy is old right? Anyway.....you are all right. A draft pick is always a crapshoot and sometimes you have to take a risk....like the Vikings did with AP....that risk was much lower than Harrell though IMHO considering the impact he could have....but we can still bitch about bust's and bad picks right? :lol:

[Gunakor]

Where does TT explain why he drafted this guy again? He was healthy one year in School and he takes him with the 16th pick. He has been nothing but injured here in GB...what a shocker. Blame it on the scouts......

Yeah, blame it on the scouts. But while you are doing that, remember that Shanahan stated quite clearly that if Green Bay hadn't taken him at #16, Denver would have taken him at #17. It's not like TT drafted him out of position - he was going to go in the middle of the first round regardless. Hindsight says "Well, I'd rather it have been Denver". But we didn't have the benefit of hindsight back then.

If Harrell had worked out and stayed healthy, we'd all be praising TT for the pick, finding us a young solid DT for years to come. We'd have been thanking TT for bringing him here rather than letting him slip to Denver at #17. We didn't know back then, and neither did anyone else. It's a crapshoot, which I thought was understood by all here. Nobody is guaranteed anything in the first round.

[Pacopete4]

Where does TT explain why he drafted this guy again? He was healthy one year in School and he takes him with the 16th pick. He has been nothing but injured here in GB...what a shocker. Blame it on the scouts......

Yeah, blame it on the scouts. But while you are doing that, remember that Shanahan stated quite clearly that if Green Bay hadn't taken him at #16, Denver would have taken him at #17. It's not like TT drafted him out of position - he was going to go in the middle of the first round regardless. Hindsight says "Well, I'd rather it have been Denver". But we didn't have the benefit of hindsight back then.

If Harrell had worked out and stayed healthy, we'd all be praising TT for the pick, finding us a young solid DT for years to come. We'd have been thanking TT for bringing him here rather than letting him slip to Denver at #17. We didn't know back then, and neither did anyone else. It's a crapshoot, which I thought was understood by all here. Nobody is guaranteed anything in the first round. ya and if Ahmad Carrol had worked out we'd be praising Sherman... thing is he didn't and neither has Harrell.. this team is 5-8 quit giving Ted ''snake'' Thompson such a free pass... its just another way he has fucked up OUR Packers! If its not fixed midway thru next season let the snake go back into the wild!

[Gunakor]

Where does TT explain why he drafted this guy again? He was healthy one year in School and he takes him with the 16th pick. He has been nothing but injured here in GB...what a shocker. Blame it on the scouts......

Yeah, blame it on the scouts. But while you are doing that, remember that Shanahan stated quite clearly that if Green Bay hadn't taken him at #16, Denver would have taken him at #17. It's not like TT drafted him out of position - he was going to go in the middle of the first round regardless. Hindsight says "Well, I'd rather it have been Denver". But we didn't have the benefit of hindsight back then.

If Harrell had worked out and stayed healthy, we'd all be praising TT for the pick, finding us a young solid DT for years to come. We'd have been thanking TT for bringing him here rather than letting him slip to Denver at #17. We didn't know back then, and neither did anyone else. It's a crapshoot, which I thought was understood by all here. Nobody is guaranteed anything in the first round. ya and if Ahmad Carrol had worked out we'd be praising Sherman... thing is he didn't and neither has Harrell.. this team is 5-8 quit giving Ted ''snake'' Thompson such a free pass... its just another way he has fucked up OUR Packers! If its not fixed midway thru next season let the snake go back into the wild!

Difference is, there weren't other teams clammoring to take Carroll in the first round should we have passed him up. Harrell would have been taken with the very next pick. Shanahan said so. That's the difference. Carroll was drafted way out of position, and Harrell was taken right where he should have been taken. So Harrell didn't work out. Big whoop. Lots of first round draft picks don't work out, for a great many teams. Shit happens. You only flame a guy if he takes a player in the first round that is projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd round, and becomes a bust. Guys like Ahmad Carroll. You fail to understand that much. Harrell was SUPPOSED to go in the middle of the first round, so why are you suprised that TT picked him there?

[bobblehead]

Where does TT explain why he drafted this guy again? He was healthy one year in School and he takes him with the 16th pick. He has been nothing but injured here in GB...what a shocker. Blame it on the scouts......

Yeah, blame it on the scouts. But while you are doing that, remember that Shanahan stated quite clearly that if Green Bay hadn't taken him at #16, Denver would have taken him at #17. It's not like TT drafted him out of position - he was going to go in the middle of the first round regardless. Hindsight says "Well, I'd rather it have been Denver". But we didn't have the benefit of hindsight back then.

If Harrell had worked out and stayed healthy, we'd all be praising TT for the pick, finding us a young solid DT for years to come. We'd have been thanking TT for bringing him here rather than letting him slip to Denver at #17. We didn't know back then, and neither did anyone else. It's a crapshoot, which I thought was understood by all here. Nobody is guaranteed anything in the first round. ya and if Ahmad Carrol had worked out we'd be praising Sherman... thing is he didn't and neither has Harrell.. this team is 5-8 quit giving Ted ''snake'' Thompson such a free pass... its just another way he has fucked up OUR Packers! If its not fixed midway thru next season let the snake go back into the wild!

Do you honestly not see the difference? One guy drafted an undersized but fast guy who played at a smaller program against bad competition and never really showed good football instincts. The other guy drafted a freakishly big bodied manchild who showed good instincts against top competition but had injury problems in college. Yea, makes perfect sense to compare those two scenarios. Once Mark Hatley died Mike Sherman NEVER made a single good draft pick.

[Guiness]

Difference is, there weren't other teams clammoring to take Carroll in the first round should we have passed him up. Harrell would have been taken with the very next pick. Shanahan said so. That's the difference. Carroll was drafted way out of position, and Harrell was taken right where he should have been taken. So Harrell didn't work out. Big whoop. Lots of first round draft picks don't work out, for a great many teams. Shit happens. You only flame a guy if he takes a player in the first round that is projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd round, and becomes a bust. Guys like Ahmad Carroll. You fail to understand that much. Harrell was SUPPOSED to go in the middle of the first round, so why are you suprised that TT picked him there?

Well put - but I'll play devil's advocate a little...

If I was TT, I would've spent a considerable amount of time praising Detroit's 'brain trust' for their moves, especially the more bone headed ones. "Wow, great move, wish I could've gotten it done!" :twisted:

Of course, Shannahan's not in our division, so motive is a question. I'm not sure on the timing, could he have been mad at us over JWalk? :D

Seriously though, I'd believe little or nothing about what an NFL GM says he would've done, or is going to do.

[Merlin]

We had the opportunity to take Quinn, which we know the day of the draft that the Browns would have given their left nut for (and did). We should have been the team they negotiated with, instead we took a player that only played college football for basically one year and it wasn't the year previous to the draft. I don't care what Denver was going to do, Thompson needed to do what was in the best interests of the Packers and he clearly he thought he was smarter then everyone else. By not taking the BPA or the pick that would have given us better odds of attaining a quality player, Thompson deviated from his own stated strategy. First round draft picks seldom amount to much in the NFL. You have better luck drafting quantity in later rounds then trying to hit on one or two quality players in the first 50 picks. Obviously Quinn hasn't amounted to much but it wouldn't have been our problem, well Thompson probably would have asked for two nuts and an arm from the Browns pushing him us of negotiations. It wouldn't be the first time Thompson's "I'm smarter then everyone else" attitude has cost the Packers. Won't be the last either. For as much good as he has done for this team, I still stand by the one stat that matters, wins. Say whatever you want to protect the guy, make your excuses, it is what it is. Here's to hoping there is a big turn around in 2009 and that our "rebuilding" is finally done 5 years into his tenure.

[Gunakor]

Difference is, there weren't other teams clammoring to take Carroll in the first round should we have passed him up. Harrell would have been taken with the very next pick. Shanahan said so. That's the difference. Carroll was drafted way out of position, and Harrell was taken right where he should have been taken. So Harrell didn't work out. Big whoop. Lots of first round draft picks don't work out, for a great many teams. Shit happens. You only flame a guy if he takes a player in the first round that is projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd round, and becomes a bust. Guys like Ahmad Carroll. You fail to understand that much. Harrell was SUPPOSED to go in the middle of the first round, so why are you suprised that TT picked him there?

Well put - but I'll play devil's advocate a little...

If I was TT, I would've spent a considerable amount of time praising Detroit's 'brain trust' for their moves, especially the more bone headed ones. "Wow, great move, wish I could've gotten it done!" :twisted:

Of course, Shannahan's not in our division, so motive is a question. I'm not sure on the timing, could he have been mad at us over JWalk? :D

Seriously though, I'd believe little or nothing about what an NFL GM says he would've done, or is going to do.

It's not about who was going to take him. That's not the point I was trying to make. Rather, it is that Harrell was selected at the right time in the draft. He was projected to go middle of first round, other teams would have taken him in the middle of the first round, and TT selected him in the middle of the first round. No suprises there at all. I'm still waiting on someone to tell me how TT made this big mistake that other GM's in the league wouldn't have made by drafting Harrell where he did, because the way I see it, he played it the same way other GM's would have played it. Not trying to be smarter than everybody else, but doing a job the way other GM's would do it. If we didn't have TT as our GM, we probably still make that pick. What is everyone so pissed off about??

[sharpe1027]

Flame TT for being conservative. Whine about risks he took. That was my point. I have no problem with holding him accountable for how well the team does. Right now he has taken us within a play of the superbowl one year and missed the playoffs in the years before and after (almost certainly). While that is better than most GMs, it remains to be seen if the one year was a fluke. Next year might be the deciding factor.

[Harlan Huckleby]

the good news is that they don't miss much because he hasn't been playing that well. I'm not sure he is better than Alfred Malone.

But lets get real, he's a physical beast who was good in college. No way are they gonna give up on him. There's always next year, as they say.

[RashanGary]

Neither Mike Sherman nor Ted Thompson should be judged on individual moves standing alone. They should be judged as a whole.

Ted's not having a good year this year. If it keeps up or spirals down he'll get the same treatment Sherman got for his downward trend. He'll probably get the same firing, the same fan treatment and we'll all have similar bad memories.

Considering the state of the team Ted gets more time (debate it if you will but it's a fact that the team is giving him more time and I think he deserves it). I think he's doing a really good job but all of that is yet to be proven to a point where he gets fired or celebrated. Right now we're at teh same back and forth (is he this or is he that) wall. I think he's this. You think he's that. We'll see but lets not sit here and crucify him for a one bad pick. Hell, lets not crucify him if he has half bad picks. That's the NFL. That's the draft.

[channtheman]

I'm really sick of this. I stuck to him since he's been on the team, but this is just shite. Time to cut the slack, even if it was a 1st rounder.

Yup, I was willing to give him one more chance with a good off season and no more injuries. This is it though. He needs to go as all he's done is waste space.

[cpk1994]

Neither Mike Sherman nor Ted Thompson should be judged on individual moves standing alone. They should be judged as a whole.

Ted's not having a good year this year. If it keeps up or spirals down he'll get the same treatment Sherman got for his downward trend. He'll probably get the same firing, the same fan treatment and we'll all have similar bad memories.

Considering the state of the team Ted gets more time (debate it if you will but it's a fact that the team is giving him more time and I think he deserves it). I think he's doing a really good job but all of that is yet to be proven to a point where he gets fired or celebrated. Right now we're at teh same back and forth (is he this or is he that) wall. I think he's this. You think he's that. We'll see but lets not sit here and crucify him for a one bad pick. Hell, lets not crucify him if he has half bad picks. That's the NFL. That's the draft.And just to add to it, go back to Ron Wolf's 1st round history with the Packers. Jaml Reynolds, Terrell Buckley, Antuan Edwards and John Michels ring a bell? Wolf wasn't exactly a master of the first round either.

[Joemailman]

The injury he has now I can live with because it's not due to being out of shape, as was probably the case earlier this year. Harrell needs to finally come to training camp healthy. He's been here 2 years, and hasn't really fully participated in a training camp yet. TC is where young players get to refine their skills, something he badly needs. If he reports next spring out of shape again, then you probably cut him. Otherwise, I think it pays to give him a chance to turn things around.

[Packers4Ever]

Hip injury, not practicing:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/35942759.html

That was just for Wed, and Thursday. Coach was

planning on his playing today. :roll:

[Patler]

Hip injury, not practicing:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/35942759.html

That was just for Wed, and Thursday. Coach was

planning on his playing today. :roll:

That's what the article states, isn't it?
This is out of McCarthy's hands. The medical staff will test him on Friday and decide if he can play.
There is also some talk out of GB that since his snaps are limited anyway, since he has had no preparation for the season and since he is (and has been for several weeks) suffering from a hip problem now, that they might just shut him down for the year. Let him start over from the beginning of the off season and hope he can put something together for 2009. In some ways that would make sense.

[LEWCWA]

Where does TT explain why he drafted this guy again? He was healthy one year in School and he takes him with the 16th pick. He has been nothing but injured here in GB...what a shocker. Blame it on the scouts......

Yeah, blame it on the scouts. But while you are doing that, remember that Shanahan stated quite clearly that if Green Bay hadn't taken him at #16, Denver would have taken him at #17. It's not like TT drafted him out of position - he was going to go in the middle of the first round regardless. Hindsight says "Well, I'd rather it have been Denver". But we didn't have the benefit of hindsight back then.

If Harrell had worked out and stayed healthy, we'd all be praising TT for the pick, finding us a young solid DT for years to come. We'd have been thanking TT for bringing him here rather than letting him slip to Denver at #17. We didn't know back then, and neither did anyone else. It's a crapshoot, which I thought was understood by all here. Nobody is guaranteed anything in the first round. ya and if Ahmad Carrol had worked out we'd be praising Sherman... thing is he didn't and neither has Harrell.. this team is 5-8 quit giving Ted ''snake'' Thompson such a free pass... its just another way he has fucked up OUR Packers! If its not fixed midway thru next season let the snake go back into the wild!

Do you honestly not see the difference? One guy drafted an undersized but fast guy who played at a smaller program against bad competition and never really showed good football instincts. The other guy drafted a freakishly big bodied manchild who showed good instincts against top competition but had injury problems in college. Yea, makes perfect sense to compare those two scenarios. Once Mark Hatley died Mike Sherman NEVER made a single good draft pick.


Played at a smaller program? Arkansas is part of the SEC as far as I know! When bashing someone else, you should have your facts straight, at the very least. When you don't you just look foolish!

[Patler]

Speaking of oft-injured, I see Fred Taylor is likely heading to IR. There's another guy who has just not been able to stay on the field, but he has managed to be very impressive when he's there. We'll never know, but he has shown enough to think he could've even been HOF caliber if he stayed healthy.

Amazingly enough, he could still get HOF consideration. He has over 11,000 yards in an 11 year career, while missing more than two years worth of games.

[SnakeLH2006]

Well hopefully JH figures it out....TT is still thinking about it though.... :lol:

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/insider/apr05/ted420.jpg

[cpk1994]

Where does TT explain why he drafted this guy again? He was healthy one year in School and he takes him with the 16th pick. He has been nothing but injured here in GB...what a shocker. Blame it on the scouts......

Yeah, blame it on the scouts. But while you are doing that, remember that Shanahan stated quite clearly that if Green Bay hadn't taken him at #16, Denver would have taken him at #17. It's not like TT drafted him out of position - he was going to go in the middle of the first round regardless. Hindsight says "Well, I'd rather it have been Denver". But we didn't have the benefit of hindsight back then.

If Harrell had worked out and stayed healthy, we'd all be praising TT for the pick, finding us a young solid DT for years to come. We'd have been thanking TT for bringing him here rather than letting him slip to Denver at #17. We didn't know back then, and neither did anyone else. It's a crapshoot, which I thought was understood by all here. Nobody is guaranteed anything in the first round. ya and if Ahmad Carrol had worked out we'd be praising Sherman... thing is he didn't and neither has Harrell.. this team is 5-8 quit giving Ted ''snake'' Thompson such a free pass... its just another way he has fucked up OUR Packers! If its not fixed midway thru next season let the snake go back into the wild!

Do you honestly not see the difference? One guy drafted an undersized but fast guy who played at a smaller program against bad competition and never really showed good football instincts. The other guy drafted a freakishly big bodied manchild who showed good instincts against top competition but had injury problems in college. Yea, makes perfect sense to compare those two scenarios. Once Mark Hatley died Mike Sherman NEVER made a single good draft pick.


Played at a smaller program? Arkansas is part of the SEC as far as I know! When bashing someone else, you should have your facts straight, at the very least. When you don't you just look foolish!What's even funnier is that Harrel played at Tennessee., which plays in ..GASP. the SEC!

[texaspackerbacker]

Neither Mike Sherman nor Ted Thompson should be judged on individual moves standing alone. They should be judged as a whole.

Ted's not having a good year this year. If it keeps up or spirals down he'll get the same treatment Sherman got for his downward trend. He'll probably get the same firing, the same fan treatment and we'll all have similar bad memories.

Considering the state of the team Ted gets more time (debate it if you will but it's a fact that the team is giving him more time and I think he deserves it). I think he's doing a really good job but all of that is yet to be proven to a point where he gets fired or celebrated. Right now we're at teh same back and forth (is he this or is he that) wall. I think he's this. You think he's that. We'll see but lets not sit here and crucify him for a one bad pick. Hell, lets not crucify him if he has half bad picks. That's the NFL. That's the draft.And just to add to it, go back to Ron Wolf's 1st round history with the Packers. Jaml Reynolds, Terrell Buckley, Antuan Edwards and John Michels ring a bell? Wolf wasn't exactly a master of the first round either.

Not to dwell on the LUCK factor, but drafting is a perfect illustration of that too. Several of those first round flops--and conversely, several of the later round super picks--SEEMED just the opposite of the way they turned out at the time of the draft.

As for Harrell, maybe the negativists will turn out to be right, maybe not. It would be absolutely STUPID to give up on him too soon, though. This latest injury--this is the first I've even heard about it--may or may not even keep him out of any games. The only thing you gain by cutting him is a roster spot to put some other scrub D-Lineman or whatever. By keeping him, you at least give him one more chance next camp to show something resembling first round ability.

[hurleyfan]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.

If I recall, AP had 1 injury in his career (shoulder) and we all know how many hits a running back takes..

Harrell had the majority of his college career marred by injury, and now it carries over into the big league..

I agree every GM misses on draft picks, whether round one, or round 6.. But with so much at stake with a D1, I say you don't pick an injury guy..

[Zool]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.

If I recall, AP had 1 injury in his career (shoulder) and we all know how many hits a running back takes..

Harrell had the majority of his college career marred by injury, and now it carries over into the big league..

I agree every GM misses on draft picks, whether round one, or round 6.. But with so much at stake with a D1, I say you don't pick an injury guy..

Actually Peterson had an ankle problem in his sophomore season and a broken collar bone in his junior season. Harrell had an ankle problem in his junior season and a torn biceps in his senior season. I think he missed a game or 2 in his sophomore season for something nagging, but nothing much.

Its actually really close. Harrell just happened to be hurt a ton now while Peterson has only missed a few games.

[Iron Mike]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in the draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.


Dimitrious Underwood
Chris Hovan
Kevin Williams
Kenechi Udeze
Erasmus James

The Vikings spent a LOT of first-round draft picks on Defensive linemen. Look how that turned out. I count ONE that's actually worth a damn.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.

If I recall, AP had 1 injury in his career (shoulder) and we all know how many hits a running back takes..

Harrell had the majority of his college career marred by injury, and now it carries over into the big league..

I agree every GM misses on draft picks, whether round one, or round 6.. But with so much at stake with a D1, I say you don't pick an injury guy..

Actually Peterson had an ankle problem in his sophomore season and a broken collar bone in his junior season. Harrell had an ankle problem in his junior season and a torn biceps in his senior season. I think he missed a game or 2 in his sophomore season for something nagging, but nothing much.

Its actually really close. Harrell just happened to be hurt a ton now while Peterson has only missed a few games.
Peterson actually showed a ton of ability and an even higher potential while in college. Harrell did not show anything in college that warrented him being picked as high as he was. Comparing Harrell's and AP's college careers is a joke.

[KYPack]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.

If I recall, AP had 1 injury in his career (shoulder) and we all know how many hits a running back takes..

Harrell had the majority of his college career marred by injury, and now it carries over into the big league..

I agree every GM misses on draft picks, whether round one, or round 6.. But with so much at stake with a D1, I say you don't pick an injury guy..

I dunno.

Sometimes, it's worth it.

Anthony Munoz, 6 knee operations in College.

No major injuries and a HOF career in the Pro's.

Many teams passed on him bc the knee. Sometimes, you do gamble.

[Pacopete4]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.

If I recall, AP had 1 injury in his career (shoulder) and we all know how many hits a running back takes..

Harrell had the majority of his college career marred by injury, and now it carries over into the big league..

I agree every GM misses on draft picks, whether round one, or round 6.. But with so much at stake with a D1, I say you don't pick an injury guy..

I dunno.

Sometimes, it's worth it.

Anthony Munoz, 6 knee operations in College.

No major injuries and a HOF career in the Pro's.

Many teams passed on him bc the knee. Sometimes, you do gamble. with the money these 1st rounders are making these days, no you dont gamble on a guy who is a proven health risk factor... there are way more cases where a guy keeps getting injured than he does staying healthy...

[Pacopete4]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.

If I recall, AP had 1 injury in his career (shoulder) and we all know how many hits a running back takes..

Harrell had the majority of his college career marred by injury, and now it carries over into the big league..

I agree every GM misses on draft picks, whether round one, or round 6.. But with so much at stake with a D1, I say you don't pick an injury guy..

I dunno.

Sometimes, it's worth it.

Anthony Munoz, 6 knee operations in College.

No major injuries and a HOF career in the Pro's.

Many teams passed on him bc the knee. Sometimes, you do gamble. with the money these 1st rounders are making these days, no you dont gamble on a guy who is a proven health risk factor... there are way more cases where a guy keeps getting injured than he does staying healthy...

[Zool]

There's also guys who never get hurt in college or pro's, get drafted in the first and suck balls for their brief careers. Its a complete crap shoot.

[pbmax]

... with the money these 1st rounders are making these days, no you dont gamble on a guy who is a proven health risk factor... there are way more cases where a guy keeps getting injured than he does staying healthy...
PP4, you have a point if its a top 5 or top 10 pick. But the 16th pick in the first round is not making ridiculous money, even under the current CBA. He was worth the financial risk.

And to answer Merlin, I think the Packer's board clearly had him as BPA, why else did they take him? His was not a position of need at that moment. For better or worse, T2 stayed put because his board told him he was getting great value. Otherwise they would have traded down.

It doesn't seem to have worked, move on, pick again. Some 4th rounder next year will make Harrell seem expendable.

[sharpe1027]

with the money these 1st rounders are making these days, no you dont gamble on a guy who is a proven health risk factor... there are way more cases where a guy keeps getting injured than he does staying healthy...

And here I thought TT's biggest critque was that he was too conservative. I guess we should start calling him the gambler! :lol:

[KYPack]

Injuries are injuries. A guy got hurt in college. He will probably get hurt in the pros. You take your chances.

There was a neat study I saw a few years back. 1st round choices play effectively in the pros about 40% of the time. 2nd rounds 30%. 3rd rounders 20%.

Only about 2-3 % of 7th rounders make a roster. These figures are guesses from memory, but that was the trending.

You get a better class of player in the higher rounds, but something like 60% of all #1's never become effective players (even though 99% make the roster)

The good organizations get a higher percentage of good players, but everbody is guessing.

[oregonpackfan]

Injuries are injuries. A guy got hurt in college. He will probably get hurt in the pros. You take your chances.

There was a neat study I saw a few years back. 1st round choices play effectively in the pros about 40% of the time. 2nd rounds 30%. 3rd rounders 20%.

Only about 2-3 % of 7th rounders make a roster. These figures are guesses from memory, but that was the trending.

You get a better class of player in the higher rounds, but something like 60% of all #1's never become effective players (even though 99% make the roster)

The good organizations get a higher percentage of good players, but everbody is guessing.

Interesting statistics, KY. They make sense.

[GrnBay007]

Only about 2-3 % of 7th rounders make a roster. These figures are guesses from memory, but that was the trending.



....and people question TT has one hell of an ego? lol 7th round is his favorite, isn't it? I sure hope he makes the right moves for the Packers this next year...draft and FA. Pretty crucial IMO.

[sharpe1027]

Injuries are injuries. A guy got hurt in college. He will probably get hurt in the pros. You take your chances.

There was a neat study I saw a few years back. 1st round choices play effectively in the pros about 40% of the time. 2nd rounds 30%. 3rd rounders 20%.

Only about 2-3 % of 7th rounders make a roster. These figures are guesses from memory, but that was the trending.

You get a better class of player in the higher rounds, but something like 60% of all #1's never become effective players (even though 99% make the roster)

The good organizations get a higher percentage of good players, but everbody is guessing.

Considering that 1st rounders make 2-10 times more than second rounders, much of it guranteed money, and that the 60% that don't make a contribution stick around way too long, I am surprised that teams keep making 1st round selections...seriously. :?

[Fritz]

Only about 2-3 % of 7th rounders make a roster. These figures are guesses from memory, but that was the trending.



....and people question TT has one hell of an ego? lol 7th round is his favorite, isn't it? I sure hope he makes the right moves for the Packers this next year...draft and FA. Pretty crucial IMO.

Sorry, Double "OH!". TT has gotten more second round picks (8) than seventh rounders (7); thus, the second round appears to be his favorite round. He's also had 7 fourth rounders, by the way.

[bobblehead]

Where does TT explain why he drafted this guy again? He was healthy one year in School and he takes him with the 16th pick. He has been nothing but injured here in GB...what a shocker. Blame it on the scouts......

Yeah, blame it on the scouts. But while you are doing that, remember that Shanahan stated quite clearly that if Green Bay hadn't taken him at #16, Denver would have taken him at #17. It's not like TT drafted him out of position - he was going to go in the middle of the first round regardless. Hindsight says "Well, I'd rather it have been Denver". But we didn't have the benefit of hindsight back then.

If Harrell had worked out and stayed healthy, we'd all be praising TT for the pick, finding us a young solid DT for years to come. We'd have been thanking TT for bringing him here rather than letting him slip to Denver at #17. We didn't know back then, and neither did anyone else. It's a crapshoot, which I thought was understood by all here. Nobody is guaranteed anything in the first round. ya and if Ahmad Carrol had worked out we'd be praising Sherman... thing is he didn't and neither has Harrell.. this team is 5-8 quit giving Ted ''snake'' Thompson such a free pass... its just another way he has fucked up OUR Packers! If its not fixed midway thru next season let the snake go back into the wild!

Do you honestly not see the difference? One guy drafted an undersized but fast guy who played at a smaller program against bad competition and never really showed good football instincts. The other guy drafted a freakishly big bodied manchild who showed good instincts against top competition but had injury problems in college. Yea, makes perfect sense to compare those two scenarios. Once Mark Hatley died Mike Sherman NEVER made a single good draft pick.


Played at a smaller program? Arkansas is part of the SEC as far as I know! When bashing someone else, you should have your facts straight, at the very least. When you don't you just look foolish!

I stand corrected, for some reason I thought carroll came from a small program, my mistake. It still doesn't change the fact that physically he didn't match up other than he was fast in the 40. I won't belabour the point since I was wrong about a key element of it, but I still think the Harrell pick was much stronger than Carroll.

[pbmax]

Justin's Contract:

7/27/2007: Signed a six-year, $14.507 million contract. The deal contains $8.1 million in guarantees, including a $1 million first-year roster bonus. 2008: $370,000, (+ $5.3 million option bonus + $30,000 roster bonus), 2009: $460,000 (+ $186,625 roster bonus), 2010: $550,000 (+ $408,375 roster bonus), 2011: $650,000 (+ $575,000 roster bonus), 2012: $1,536,750, 2013: Free Agent

He has earned 6.3 million of the "guaranteed" money so far, if that option bonus was paid before the season, which would be standard.

[KYPack]

There was a neat study I saw a few years back. 1st round choices play effectively in the pros about 40% of the time. 2nd rounds 30%. 3rd rounders 20%.

Only about 2-3 % of 7th rounders make a roster. These figures are guesses from memory, but that was the trending.

You get a better class of player in the higher rounds, but something like 60% of all #1's never become effective players (even though 99% make the roster)

The good organizations get a higher percentage of good players, but everbody is guessing.

Considering that 1st rounders make 2-10 times more than second rounders, much of it guranteed money, and that the 60% that don't make a contribution stick around way too long, I am surprised that teams keep making 1st round selections...seriously. :?

I know what you mean. I've long felt this new way of paying draft choices is goofy. #1's have to make the roster to amortize the signing bonus.

This might be a great year to trade down, although you'd think we could use an impact guy if one popped up.

What's the last #1 that was cut?

I think it's Demetrius Underwood, him being cerifiably nuts & all, but i don't know for sure.

[Gunakor]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.

If I recall, AP had 1 injury in his career (shoulder) and we all know how many hits a running back takes..

Harrell had the majority of his college career marred by injury, and now it carries over into the big league..

I agree every GM misses on draft picks, whether round one, or round 6.. But with so much at stake with a D1, I say you don't pick an injury guy..

Actually Peterson had an ankle problem in his sophomore season and a broken collar bone in his junior season. Harrell had an ankle problem in his junior season and a torn biceps in his senior season. I think he missed a game or 2 in his sophomore season for something nagging, but nothing much.

Its actually really close. Harrell just happened to be hurt a ton now while Peterson has only missed a few games.
Peterson actually showed a ton of ability and an even higher potential while in college. Harrell did not show anything in college that warrented him being picked as high as he was. Comparing Harrell's and AP's college careers is a joke.

Sorry you didn't get to see Harrell play while in college. When healthy, he was a freakin beast at DT for the Volunteers. He was going to go in the first round, whether we picked him or not. He was a first round projection due to how well he played when healthy. He'd have been top 10 if not for that torn bicep his senior year.

[denverYooper]

Harrell was listed as "Full Participation" for today, "Questionable" for game day. I'm pretty sure he'll play Sunday.

[th87]

Why is this even a story? Other players are missing practice time too.

Oh yeah, because papers need to sell, and what better way to do that than attacking everyone's favorite whipping boy?

We have no clue how he's going to turn out. Calling him a bust is premature.

[Freak Out]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.

If I recall, AP had 1 injury in his career (shoulder) and we all know how many hits a running back takes..

Harrell had the majority of his college career marred by injury, and now it carries over into the big league..

I agree every GM misses on draft picks, whether round one, or round 6.. But with so much at stake with a D1, I say you don't pick an injury guy..

Actually Peterson had an ankle problem in his sophomore season and a broken collar bone in his junior season. Harrell had an ankle problem in his junior season and a torn biceps in his senior season. I think he missed a game or 2 in his sophomore season for something nagging, but nothing much.

Its actually really close. Harrell just happened to be hurt a ton now while Peterson has only missed a few games.
Peterson actually showed a ton of ability and an even higher potential while in college. Harrell did not show anything in college that warrented him being picked as high as he was. Comparing Harrell's and AP's college careers is a joke.

Sorry you didn't get to see Harrell play while in college. When healthy, he was a freakin beast at DT for the Volunteers. He was going to go in the first round, whether we picked him or not. He was a first round projection due to how well he played when healthy. He'd have been top 10 if not for that torn bicep his senior year.

Great..he played fantastic in school and he was a beast....when he starts to do that in the NFL we'll stop bashing him and TT for drafting him. Both are paid millions to do a job and only one has performed to date.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

^^^^
Must resist joke about TT's performance.

[Freak Out]

^^^^
Must resist joke about TT's performance.

Resistance is futile.

[Gunakor]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.

If I recall, AP had 1 injury in his career (shoulder) and we all know how many hits a running back takes..

Harrell had the majority of his college career marred by injury, and now it carries over into the big league..

I agree every GM misses on draft picks, whether round one, or round 6.. But with so much at stake with a D1, I say you don't pick an injury guy..

Actually Peterson had an ankle problem in his sophomore season and a broken collar bone in his junior season. Harrell had an ankle problem in his junior season and a torn biceps in his senior season. I think he missed a game or 2 in his sophomore season for something nagging, but nothing much.

Its actually really close. Harrell just happened to be hurt a ton now while Peterson has only missed a few games.
Peterson actually showed a ton of ability and an even higher potential while in college. Harrell did not show anything in college that warrented him being picked as high as he was. Comparing Harrell's and AP's college careers is a joke.

Sorry you didn't get to see Harrell play while in college. When healthy, he was a freakin beast at DT for the Volunteers. He was going to go in the first round, whether we picked him or not. He was a first round projection due to how well he played when healthy. He'd have been top 10 if not for that torn bicep his senior year.

Great..he played fantastic in school and he was a beast....when he starts to do that in the NFL we'll stop bashing him and TT for drafting him. Both are paid millions to do a job and only one has performed to date.

You can't honestly expect every GM to hit on all of his draft picks. Tons of guys drafted in the first round for excellent play in college don't pan out in the NFL. Ron Wolf is an example of an outstanding GM who missed on more than a few of his high draft picks. Bash Harrell, he's the one not living up to expectation. I'd agree with you at this point. But he wasn't drafted out of position. You can't blame Ted Thompson.

Bashing TT because he missed on ONE first round draft pick during his time here is silly anyway. Hawk and Rodgers are pretty solid, aren't they? How's TT's second round looking? Third? Pretty solid across the board on day 1. Sure there's been some misses, but again, that happens to the best of them sometimes. Overall, I'd say it's pretty good. Cut the guy some slack.

[pbmax]

^^^^
Must resist joke about TT's performance.
You're back? :lol:

Is Campbell right behind you? :lol:

[LEWCWA]

I have no problem with the Harrell pick. He hasn't done shit, but that happens.....I also think big DT that can play are hard to come by. Given the chance, this is one position I truely believe you take gambles with!

[oregonpackfan]

^^^^
Must resist joke about TT's performance.

Resistance is futile.

Freak Out, you have to stop hanging around Seven of Nine. Her Borg personality is rubbing off on you! :)

[Freak Out]

^^^^
Must resist joke about TT's performance.

Resistance is futile.

Freak Out, you have to stop hanging around Seven of Nine. Her Borg personality is rubbing off on you! :)

I wish!

http://doctorwhocollector.com/images/categories/seven-of-nine.jpg

[Partial]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.

If I recall, AP had 1 injury in his career (shoulder) and we all know how many hits a running back takes..

Harrell had the majority of his college career marred by injury, and now it carries over into the big league..

I agree every GM misses on draft picks, whether round one, or round 6.. But with so much at stake with a D1, I say you don't pick an injury guy..

Actually Peterson had an ankle problem in his sophomore season and a broken collar bone in his junior season. Harrell had an ankle problem in his junior season and a torn biceps in his senior season. I think he missed a game or 2 in his sophomore season for something nagging, but nothing much.

Its actually really close. Harrell just happened to be hurt a ton now while Peterson has only missed a few games.

But, one should argue whether it was wise to pick and injury prone player if he doesn't have super duper duper quadruper star potential. AP is the best player in the NFL. Justin Harrell is just a guy right now, and where is his ceiling? He is becomes a 5x pro bowler, then sure, but in retrospect the pick was pretty poor.

[Partial]

The pain for defensive tackle Justin Harrell and the disgruntlement for the Green Bay Packers just goes on and on.

On Friday, Harrell revealed that the lower-back issues that have dogged him since March haven't abated and doctors aren't sure what's causing them.

Harrell, a first-round draft choice in 2007, returned fully to practice Friday but was listed as questionable amid speculation that he won't play again this season.

"He fought through the practice," coach Mike McCarthy said. "Good to see him out there. He's going through a tough medical spot right now."

Listed with a hip injury, Harrell said the hip was interrelated with the back injury he suffered eight months ago. A team-affiliated doctor performed surgery on him for a ruptured disc on April 11. In August, he went out of state for additional back surgery.

"Just talking to the doctors, you really can't pinpoint what's actually going on," Harrell said. "It could be a variety of things. We've been dealing with my hip in the whole rehab process.

"I still really haven't got on the field. Ever since the first surgery, I've never been 100%, really. Just covered over it."

In October, not long before Harrell was activated to the roster, he said there had been no setbacks or pain since the second surgery.

"There's been times it just knots up and you've got to stop and kind of brace yourself," he said. "But it's not new to me. I've been dealing with it since the first time it happened.

"The whole disc and the pinched nerve and all that, it's been shooting pains all down your leg and stuff like that. We had to battle the leg and the hip getting tired. Every movement you make, you pretty much feel something."

Harrell has played in six games, averaging 20½ snaps. He has made almost no impact with 13 tackles, including 1½ for loss, and no pressures.

"I don't want to put my play on injuries," he said. "Of course, when you got pain, it's definitely going to hurt your game. But if you're out there, you've got to give it your best and try to make plays."

According to Harrell, probably the last time he felt 100% was during his high school days in Martin, Tenn. Injuries were his constant companion during five years at Tennessee and as a rookie in Green Bay.

"The higher up you go, the more bumps and bruises you're going to get," he said. "You've got to play through it."

Harrell's hope is that time and rest will heal his weakened spine. The possibility of a third surgery seemed distasteful to him.
Injury list

Fullback Korey Hall (knee) sat out another day and probably won't play Sunday in Jacksonville. Defensive end Jeremy Thompson (ankle) and linebacker Danny Lansanah (arm, ankle) practiced but are questionable.

Defensive tackle Ryan Pickett (illness) returned Friday and is fine.

McCarthy put off announcing his starting linebackers. Brandon Chillar (groin) is fine.

The Jaguars ruled out wide receiver Jerry Porter (groin).
Old ties

Former Packers guard Harry Galbreath was the offensive line coach in 2005 and '06 at Hampton University when the newest Packer, Nevin McCaskill, was the Pirates' left tackle. One of Galbreath's teammates at Tennessee, Green Bay director of football operations Reggie McKenzie, pushed for the Packers to sign McCaskill off Philadelphia's practice squad.

"Reggie McKenzie really liked him," McCarthy said. "I've watched him the last two days. I think he's very raw. He's got a nice, square body. The way we train in the off-season, I think this is the perfect spot for him."

McCaskill, 6 feet 3½ inches and 315 pounds, is playing guard in Green Bay. He signed a two-year contract for minimum salary.

"He had a little quickness to him," said a personnel director who evaluated McCaskill in August 2007 when he was in camp with Buffalo. "Decent feet. Wasn't real strong. Ran 5.45, didn't have very good range. Kind of a project."

McCaskill, a native of Tallahassee, Fla., spent all of '07 on the Bills' practice squad and seven weeks on the Eagles' practice squad this season.
More fines

The league fined linebacker Desmond Bishop $5,000 for the second time in a month. This time, he was nailed for grabbing the face mask of Houston fullback Vonta Leach.

Also, Chillar was fined $5,000 for unnecessarily striking wide receiver Steve Smith of Carolina on an interception return by Tramon Williams.
Pro Bowl

One Green Bay player, Charles Woodson, finished first in voting by fans for the Pro Bowl team.

Free safety Nick Collins finished third behind Washington's LaRon Landry and Philadelphia's Brian Dawkins. Finishing fourth were kicker Mason Crosby and special-teamer Jarrett Bush. Finishing fifth were wide receiver Greg Jennings, fullback Korey Hall and strong safety Atari Bigby.

About 85 million votes were cast by fans online. Many must have been Redskins fans, because players from Washington led nine of the 19 positions in the NFC.

Supposedly, the Pro Bowl teams are selected by one-third vote of coaches, one-third vote of players and one-third vote of fans.

In Green Bay on Thursday, the offensive players broke off to select a Pro Bowl defensive team just as the defensive players were selecting the offensive team. The coaches also met separately by platoon to make their choices.

McCarthy said he didn't participate in the coaches' deliberations.

The Pro Bowl teams will be announced Tuesday.

[Guiness]

Who is Nevin McCaskill?

We just picked him up? I didn't know we had a roster spot open.

[Partial]

Who is Nevin McCaskill?

We just picked him up? I didn't know we had a roster spot open.

Tausch.

[Zool]

The Minnesota Vikings took the most talented player in teh draft with the 7th pick. He slipped that far because of injury risk. Look how that turned out.

If I recall, AP had 1 injury in his career (shoulder) and we all know how many hits a running back takes..

Harrell had the majority of his college career marred by injury, and now it carries over into the big league..

I agree every GM misses on draft picks, whether round one, or round 6.. But with so much at stake with a D1, I say you don't pick an injury guy..

Actually Peterson had an ankle problem in his sophomore season and a broken collar bone in his junior season. Harrell had an ankle problem in his junior season and a torn biceps in his senior season. I think he missed a game or 2 in his sophomore season for something nagging, but nothing much.

Its actually really close. Harrell just happened to be hurt a ton now while Peterson has only missed a few games.

But, one should argue whether it was wise to pick and injury prone player if he doesn't have super duper duper quadruper star potential. AP is the best player in the NFL. Justin Harrell is just a guy right now, and where is his ceiling? He is becomes a 5x pro bowler, then sure, but in retrospect the pick was pretty poor.

There was absolutely no way of knowing this pre-draft and to say you 'knew' ahead of time is egotistical and completely false. I'm not here to defend the drafting of Harrell so much as try and point out that everyone here would have a much worse success rate than ANY GM in the NFL including Matt Millen at the NFL draft. Otherwise that person would at least be part of a scouting team for someone somewhere.

I just wish people would maybe stop thinking that the internet is their personal place to say whatever stupid fucking thing popped into their head.

[Partial]

I'm not saying I had any idea. No way did I. But, in retrospect that pick is looking pretty poor. You can't draft an injury prone guy in the 1st, even if he has top 5 talent. Unless he's going to be a top 5 player in the entire league it just doesn't seem worth it.

It was a miscalculation, just like thinking the offense and defense wouldn't skip a beat despite losing some of their best players this off-season.

Sucks that Harrell has amounted to nothing in two years.

[sheepshead]

Packers notes: Harrell 'trying' not to be a bust
By JASON WILDE
608-252-6176
jwilde@madison.com
GREEN BAY — Justin Harrell is sorry. He really is.

He's sorry he hasn't lived up to being the 16th overall pick in the 2007 draft, and he's sorry he's spent more time in the training room than he has on the football field as his second NFL season draws to a close.

But the Green Bay Packers' defensive tackle wants you to know he's doing what he can to not be the bust everyone thinks he is.

"I'm trying," Harrell said after Friday's practice, which left him questionable for Sunday's game at Jacksonville with a hip injury related to his offseason back problems. "It's not like I'm sitting back here on vacation, relaxing. I really am trying to work and trying to get this back (healthy) and really make it go away. And it hasn't so far.

"Everybody's entitled to their opinion, and by my performance, I guess they have a reason to say that (I'm a bust). I've said all along, I'm not going to shy away from it. I'm going to face it head-on and just try to do everything I can to change their opinion. And if they still feel that way, I've still got to play. I'm a Green Bay Packer until they release me or whatever, and that's how I'm going to approach it."

At least publicly, his coaches haven't given up on him, either. Coach Mike McCarthy called him a "young player (who) is fully capable of doing all the things that we expect from him," although defensive tackles coach Robert Nunn acknowledged that the staff still doesn't know whether he'll ever become a dependable player.

"There's no way of knowing. Time is going to tell how everything is going to unfold," Nunn said. "Certainly it has not unfolded the way anyone wanted it to or anyone's expected it to. It's been frustrating for all of us involved. I really don't know."

After a pair of offseason back surgeries to repair a bulging disc and compressed nerve, Harrell was activated from the physically unable to perform list following the Oct. 26 bye week. Harrell has seven tackles in six games this season and played nine games (including playoffs) as a rookie last season because of an ankle injury and a preexisting arm injury from college.

Nunn said with the trade of Corey Williams to Cleveland, the Packers "definitely were counting on him being in the mix" entering the season, but the back injury scuttled that plan.

"It started off almost immediately after that when he had the back problem, and we were never able to get his feet back firmly on the ground," Nunn said.

Because Harrell has yet to participate in an offseason workout program because of his various injuries, and his training camp work has been limited to light work his rookie year, the hope is that with a full year of preparation, he will be a factor in 2009. But again, there's no guarantee.

"Ever since the first (back) surgery, I've never been 100 percent, really," Harrell said. "It's one of those injuries that is going to heal with time, and right now we don't have time. So I'm just trying to push through and in the offseason let everything heal up.

"(This offseason) is going to be huge, man. I just want to get healthy and make sure I come back and just do everything I can to hold up for a season and try to stay injury-free and get ready to work. The injury bug has been biting me for the past couple years.

"They brought me here for a reason, and I understand that, and it hasn't gone my way since I've been here. But you have to keep working for that day that everything starts going your way and just go out there and play football."

Extra points

[texaspackerbacker]

Does it occur to anybody that maybe Ryan pickett has the right idea--just lay low and heal up in the off-season?

I don't know if Harrell was lifting weights or what he was doing when he hurt his back, but it's safe to say it wouldn't have happened sitting around watching TV. Back in the day, when players didn't do all this off-season training, it seems to me there was a lot less injuries.

Some guys maybe need it--somebody trying to bulk up or whatever, but I'm convinced most players would be better off just giving their bodies a rest. That is especially true for somebody coming off an injury.

[RashanGary]

Well, if Harrell didn't understand the importance of hard work in the offseason it's nice to see that he gets it now.

Maybe the back wasn't his "fault" per se, but the way things have unravelled it certainly looks to everyone involved (including him) that it was at least partially.


I'm leaning toward him being a lazy bastard and never getting his damn head on straight but maybe this disaster is a blessing in disguise. Maybe he's not going to be perpetually injured and will bounce back to healthy the way Blackmon did after two years on the bench. Blackmon was a 4th rounder and Harrell a 1st so the perception and criticism is much different. Still, maybe he can come around and become a player. Maybe he comes in, works his butt off in the offseason and vows to never be in anything but exceptional shape again. Maybe he's a lazy bastard, never works hard and just flames out but there is that last shred of hope. We'll see. I really hope the best for him. Just having him bounce back and become a player would mean a lot to this defense.

[KYPack]

Does it occur to anybody that maybe Ryan pickett has the right idea--just lay low and heal up in the off-season?

I don't know if Harrell was lifting weights or what he was doing when he hurt his back, but it's safe to say it wouldn't have happened sitting around watching TV. Back in the day, when players didn't do all this off-season training, it seems to me there was a lot less injuries.

Some guys maybe need it--somebody trying to bulk up or whatever, but I'm convinced most players would be better off just giving their bodies a rest. That is especially true for somebody coming off an injury.

The impression I got was Harrell is a little lazy. He did absolutely nothing after the Giants game. Then when he came back to GB for the off-season weight training, he blew out his back. Harrell was to work out on his own down in Tenn, before returning to the team monitored weight work.

Instead, all Harrell did was lift forkfulls of Mom's sweet potato pie into his face. The coaches should have made sure his was fit enough to lift heavy, but they didn't & he didn't do his work and boom the kid's back was blown out.

At least there is a little truth in these latest articles. This kid is hurt and if he doesn't bounce back by pre-season next year, he is done. He actually showed some flashes last season, but he's now a shadow of that. IR him and see if he heals. Two operations and all this time and the back is still bad? That's sounds like he's done to me.

[Guiness]

Does it occur to anybody that maybe Ryan pickett has the right idea--just lay low and heal up in the off-season?

I don't know if Harrell was lifting weights or what he was doing when he hurt his back, but it's safe to say it wouldn't have happened sitting around watching TV. Back in the day, when players didn't do all this off-season training, it seems to me there was a lot less injuries.

Some guys maybe need it--somebody trying to bulk up or whatever, but I'm convinced most players would be better off just giving their bodies a rest. That is especially true for somebody coming off an injury.

While you do have to let your body recuperate from the pounding of the season, my interpretation of what went wrong for him is that he did nothing all offseason, then when he got back to GB, tried to play 'catch up' and hurt himself.

Taking it easy a bit is good, but you have to stay in some kind of shape.

[Guiness]

Who is Nevin McCaskill?

We just picked him up? I didn't know we had a roster spot open.

Tausch.

Um, I totally missed that! Was there even a thread here on it?

I'll admit I get somewhat lazy with PR - I often don't look much elsewhere for going ons, because for the most part, this forum is a better source of info and opinions then anywhere else!

[denverYooper]

Does it occur to anybody that maybe Ryan pickett has the right idea--just lay low and heal up in the off-season?

I don't know if Harrell was lifting weights or what he was doing when he hurt his back, but it's safe to say it wouldn't have happened sitting around watching TV. Back in the day, when players didn't do all this off-season training, it seems to me there was a lot less injuries.

Some guys maybe need it--somebody trying to bulk up or whatever, but I'm convinced most players would be better off just giving their bodies a rest. That is especially true for somebody coming off an injury.

While you do have to let your body recuperate from the pounding of the season, my interpretation of what went wrong for him is that he did nothing all offseason, then when he got back to GB, tried to play 'catch up' and hurt himself.

Taking it easy a bit is good, but you have to stay in some kind of shape.

Yeah. Maybe they'll get a personal trainer for him in the offseason. Seems like it might be a good investment.

[Freak Out]

I just wish people would maybe stop thinking that the internet is their personal place to say whatever stupid fucking thing popped into their head.

It's not? :lol:

[Patler]

I think the story of Harrell doing nothing "all off season" has been blown way out of proportion to what really happened.

He was back in Green Bay on March 17 at the start of the off-season voluntary training and conditioning program, and hurt himself in one of the first few days of the program. He played his last game on January 20. With the post season physical checkouts, etc. he had about 7 weeks away from Green Bay. Yes he gained some weight, how many times have we heard the same thing about others of the 320 lb DTs? Should he have tried to keep it in check? Sure he should have, but its not like he sloughed off and skipped all the voluntary training, ballooning in weight all off season.

If he was lazy, he would have skipped the voluntary program as we have seen some others do in the past. Harrell was in Green Bay for day 1 of the voluntary training, in the middle of March.

He made a mistake. He probably figured he had plenty of time to get in shape between March and September. I suspect he has learned from it.

[RashanGary]

He made a mistake. He probably figured he had plenty of time to get in shape between March and September. I suspect he has learned from it.

I'd like to give him the benfit of the doubt as well, but there was one other thing that makes me think he's prone to making this a pattern.

In the beginning of the season they had him on one of the lockerroom interviews. During that interview they asked questions about him not staying in shape possibly leading to his back injury adn he said something like, "A lot of guys don't work out like they should in the offseason and they don't get back injuries. I don't think I could prevent a back injury"

He came off as a guy who thought everything he did was just fine. I'm hoping now he realizes how bad he's going to be scritinized if he comes into voluntary workouts out of shape again. He's had every opportunity to learn his lesson now. If he doesn't do everything possible this offseason that is strictly on him. I'm holding out some hope that the "gets it" but I'm not as sure that it's OK if he's, "just like other fat DT's" as you are.

[Patler]

He made a mistake. He probably figured he had plenty of time to get in shape between March and September. I suspect he has learned from it.

I'd like to give him the benfit of the doubt as well, but there was one other thing that makes me think he's prone to making this a pattern.

In the beginning of the season they had him on one of the lockerroom interviews. During that interview they asked questions about him not staying in shape possibly leading to his back injury adn he said something like, "A lot of guys don't work out like they should in the offseason and they don't get back injuries. I don't think I could prevent a back injury"

He came off as a guy who thought everything he did was just fine. I'm hoping now he realizes how bad he's going to be scritinized if he comes into voluntary workouts out of shape again. He's had every opportunity to learn his lesson now. If he doesn't do everything possible this offseason that is strictly on him. I'm holding out some hope that the "gets it" but I'm not as sure that it's OK if he's, "just like other fat DT's" as you are.

He took SEVEN (7) weeks off and was back in Green Bay the middle of March to begin preparing for the 2008 season. He could have skipped that. Most of the time they tell the players to do nothing at all for a few weeks, as a recuperation period, to let their bodies heal. The only thing he did was to gain some weight, as many, many of the really big guys do in the off season.

Personally, I doubt those seven weeks had anything to do with his disc problem. It just made for a good story because he was injured. I would also bet there were other players that did little or no lifting for much of those seven weeks, and I bet there were others who gained weight. Heck, there were some who didn't even come for the off season conditioning program.

We put up with Cletidus Hunt forgoing some sizable bonuses to skip the off-season stuff because it wasn't mandatory. Here we have a guy in Harrell that was there for day 1 of the voluntary conditioning camp, and we get all over him because he put a few pounds on his 320 pound body.

I think it is a better sounding story than it is in substance.

[GBRulz]

It's almost tempting to create the "Official Justin Harrell injury thread" but here we go again......

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20081219/PKR01/812200407/1058/PKR01

Notebook: Harrell suffers another setback with back injury

By Pete Dougherty • pdougher@greenbaypressgazette.com • December 19, 2008

The Green Bay Packers got more discouraging injury news Friday about 2007 first-round draft pick Justin Harrell's sore back and hip.

Harrell, who has missed eight games this season because of the injury that dates to March, was unable to practice after participating fully in the first practice of the week Thursday.

Coach Mike McCarthy has ruled him out for Monday night's game at Chicago while the team's medical staff tries to get a handle on the injury, which stems from a herniated disc in Harrell's lower back that's been operated on twice this year.

"It's getting worse, it's not getting better," McCarthy said. "We're going to put him, once again, in the rehab mind-set and take it throughout the weekend and see if there's a chance for Detroit (in the regular-season finale)."

The Packers' biggest concern has to be that the injury could limit Harrell's work this offseason — his growth as a player has been slowed because he's missed that crucial conditioning and technique training the past two offseasons because of injuries. McCarthy said the team's medical staff wants to see how Harrell's back responds to more rehabilitation, and he didn't know whether Harrell will need another surgery in the offseason.

"I hope not," McCarthy said.

But the hip and back injuries almost certainly are related. Harrell has said the pain in his hip has been a symptom since he first injured his back while working out in early March. A second surgery during training camp eased that pain. He missed the first seven games while recovering, but the pain returned after he'd played two games. The Packers finally held him out last week, and will again this week.

"Most of the pain is in the hip, which could be related to the initial injury," McCarthy said. "That's really what we need to find out. He's really just had a setback the last couple practices, so we're going to be smart with him this week."
Wynn likely will go

There's a good chance halfback DeShawn Wynn will be active for a second straight game because of injuries to halfback Brandon Jackson (wrist) and fullback Korey Hall (knee).

Both Jackson and Hall were listed as questionable (50 percent chance of playing), though Jackson appears to have a much better shot at playing Monday night. Regardless, with only starting halfback Ryan Grant and fullback John Kuhn healthy, the Packers probably will have to activate Wynn even if Jackson plays Monday night.

Jackson tried a new wrist brace in practice Friday.

"The threat of carrying the football properly is one of the biggest concerns (with Jackson)," McCarthy said.

After Harrell, Jackson and Hall, the Packers have no other players in danger of missing the game.
Bears update

Chicago has two players who might miss Monday night's game because of injuries: halfback Matt Forte (toe) and receiver Marty Booker (ribs). Both are listed as questionable.
Closed doors

With Monday's forecast for Chicago calling for a high of only 8 degrees and low of 2, McCarthy has his team practicing inside The Don Hutson Center this week because the outdoor practice fields are frozen and covered with snow. He also did not open the large docking doors to let in some cold air, which is his custom.

"We live in this weather," McCarthy said. "We're comfortable with the fact it'll be cold. I don't think the temperature is the factor playing outside from my experience and the way we prepare a team. The things you need to prepare for are really the wind and things like that. Just with our situation as far as our field and so forth, that's why we're still inside."

[Joemailman]

The return of the back injury is really bad news. Harrell has had lower back problems going back to high school. It now looks like 2 surgeries this year couldn't fix it. It's starting to look like he was damaged goods when the Packers drafted him. Maybe he can make a Mike Flanagan-like comeback, but it's getting hard to be optimistic.

[MJZiggy]

I think they should put him on IR in hopes that he can heal it by OTA's...It's becoming obvious it's not healed enough. Needs more strength to hold up against the kind of forces he puts on it.

[KYPack]

Zig, I think he's done.

I'm going thru the herniated disc tango myself right now.

There are several surgeries they can do. They did the ones that try to fix the hernia and heal the disc. Sometimes, those work, sometimes they don't.

If those procedures fail, they replace the disc. They put a thing about the size of an erector set in your back and they shore up and virtually replace the disc's.

Once they do the more radical surgery, your football career is over. Harrell may get cut again with the less evasive procedure &/or get physical therapy. He's young, multiple surgeries may work. But man, I doubt it.

One way or the other, yeah, IR him. 8 more days of football ain't gonna help him one bit.

[Rastak]

Zig, I think he's done.

I'm going thru the herniated disc tango myself right now.

There are several surgeries they can do. They did the ones that try to fix the hernia and heal the disc. Sometimes, those work, sometimes they don't.

If those procedures fail, they replace the disc. They put a thing about the size of an erector set in your back and they shore up and virtually replace the disc's.

Once they do the more radical surgery, your football career is over. Harrell may get cut again with the less evasive procedure &/or get physical therapy. He's young, multiple surgeries may work. But man, I doubt it.

One way or the other, yeah, IR him. 8 more days of football ain't gonna help him one bit.


Yea, he may very well be done. That hip problem sounds like the sciatic nerve, which probably directly relates to gis back. Kind of a by product of the real problem. Not sure if you've had any issues (KY) like that with the sciatic nerve but it will knock you right to the ground the pain is so intense.

[KYPack]

I hurt my back a lot over the years, always in the same area of the lower back. I played rugby for 15 seasons, after "retiring" from semi-pro football. I had a real wicked fall skiing out west and a couple dings in rugger where they had to lug me off the field.

I was up in Wisconsin in the middle of winter and helped my brother move some heavy furniture and appliances about 2 months after rugby was over. We lifted a real big couch and when we put that beast in the truck, I felt a "whump" in my lower back.

I cleverly then jumped in my car to drive back to KY. My back started killing me about an hour into the trip. The spasms took over South of Milwaukee. The pain was getting more intense as we puttered down 65.

In W Lafayette Indiana, I got out of the car in a gas station to use the john. My back gave out & I got knocked right to the ground, the pain was so intense. I also couldn't move my legs. I was carried to the bathroom, then carried back to the car. We pulled into a liquor store. I bought a fifth of bourbon, which I used for medicinal purposes. For about a month, I was knocking back bourbon at a scary rate. Pain pills, shots, nothing relieved the pain, but Kentucky bourbon. Fortunately, I live in Kentucky, so I had a great supply of the stuff.

That episode started a 25 year odyssey of back doctors, surgeons, physical therapy (I suspended Bourbon therapy after while to stay outta Betty Ford). I finally ran into a great PT facility and it's working. I may beat the knife yet.

If Harrell makes it, it'll be a miracle.

[Rastak]

Man, that sucks KY. Glad you haven't had to have any surgeries yet. It seems to me about half the time regular folk get back sugery it fucks them up for life.

[MJZiggy]

I hurt my back a lot over the years, always in the same area of the lower back. I played rugby for 15 seasons, after "retiring" from semi-pro football. I had a real wicked fall skiing out west and a couple dings in rugger where they had to lug me off the field.

I was up in Wisconsin in the middle of winter and helped my brother move some heavy furniture and appliances about 2 months after rugby was over. We lifted a real big couch and when we put that beast in the truck, I felt a "whump" in my lower back.

I cleverly then jumped in my car to drive back to KY. My back started killing me about an hour into the trip. The spasms took over South of Milwaukee. The pain was getting more intense as we puttered down 65.

In W Lafayette Indiana, I got out of the car in a gas station to use the john. My back gave out & I got knocked right to the ground, the pain was so intense. I also couldn't move my legs. I was carried to the bathroom, then carried back to the car. We pulled into a liquor store. I bought a fifth of bourbon, which I used for medicinal purposes. For about a month, I was knocking back bourbon at a scary rate. Pain pills, shots, nothing relieved the pain, but Kentucky bourbon. Fortunately, I live in Kentucky, so I had a great supply of the stuff.

That episode started a 25 year odyssey of back doctors, surgeons, physical therapy (I suspended Bourbon therapy after while to stay outta Betty Ford). I finally ran into a great PT facility and it's working. I may beat the knife yet.

If Harrell makes it, it'll be a miracle.

I did the lite version of what you're talking about. Lifted something wrong and then went to bed and woke up a couple hours later unable to put my shoes on to go to the ER. Spent a week sleeping on the floor and I've had it off and on ever since--and yeah, when it flares up, I feel it through the right hip and down to around my knee. I just hope he's not permanently injured (like 40 years from now).

[Partial]

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/59428/2/istockphoto_59428_kid_scissors.jpg

[GrnBay007]

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/59428/2/istockphoto_59428_kid_scissors.jpg

I don't think they are talking about crafts here. :D

Don't you mean.....


http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jza0141l.jpg

[red]

i slipped a disk in high school, and my back has never been the same

i'm sure it doesn't help the back to have all that fat in the front.he's done, what a waste

[GBRulz]

KY, that a helluva story. Hopefully the injury didn't happen on a Sunday or you wouldn't have been able to buy bourbon anywhere in your neck of the woods :wink:

While I am not a back pain sufferer, I did pinch my sciatic nerve about 7-8 years ago after taking a bad fall while skiing. Ras isn't kidding, the pain is worse than anything that I've ever felt before. I was literally crawling around on my hands and knees for like three days.

[KYPack]

KY, that a helluva story. Hopefully the injury didn't happen on a Sunday or you wouldn't have been able to buy bourbon anywhere in your neck of the woods :wink:

While I am not a back pain sufferer, I did pinch my sciatic nerve about 7-8 years ago after taking a bad fall while skiing. Ras isn't kidding, the pain is worse than anything that I've ever felt before. I was literally crawling around on my hands and knees for like three days.

Oh, yeah. Been there, done that one fer sure.

That one is a KY classic, I'm tellin' ya.

Didn't tell the funny part.

my buddy was gone, he went inside to get the famous "12 pack for the rest of the way home". (I'm from Wisconsin, remember). I went to take the 4th step or whatever, & WHAM, I'm flat on my back on the concrete. I can't move my legs and I'm stunned & shit. So I laid on the ground trying to get my bearings It's about 10 degrees out in a raging snowstorm.

When I get it more together, I start to get pissed. people are IGNORING me. I'm laying there & people are acting like nothing is wrong. what really set me off was the attendant making change for a guy right over the top of me! i start raisin hell! "Hey, (insert a lot of cursing wherever it fits) I'm down here, help my ass up"! the people made apologies and helped me into the john. Then my pal got me back to the car.

I was still pissed as we were heading south. My bud told me I was lucky the onlookers hadn't gone thru my pockets.

It's kinda funny now, but I had the red back then.