Packers just got unlucky this year

[channtheman]

Not even factoring in the bad officiating that has plagued some of the Packers games, I'm watching this game where the Saints are playing the Bears and it's amazing how Brees goes from playing the best game ever against the Packers to looking like total crap against the Bears. I'm pretty sure that when we play the Jaguars Sunday that they won't fumble away the game in the first 2 minutes either. It's just been that type of year for the Pack, where they get everyone when they're hot. We played Houston just as they finally get Schaub back too. Wonderful. This leads me to believe that when you play someone is just as important as anything else, thoughts?

[texaspackerbacker]

Congratulations, Chann. You basically said what I've been saying in about a dozen posts.

Luck takes many forms. Injuries certainly ranks near the top of those. Close plays--near misses by us, close plays made by the opponents--that's another kind of luck. Bad calls by officials is another form--unless you get conspiratorial and say those officials are screwing you on purpose. If this was the NBA, I'd be making that claim, but not near as likely in the NFL.

A third major kind of bad luck is exactly what you discussed, Chann--when in the season you play a team. Last year, we caught and trounced the Giants early in the season. I'm sure there were other similar games. This year, not only New Orleans played way over their heads, but Carolina also rounded into shape against the Packers, then crushed Tampa--who I thought was the better team--the next week. And the Bucs were seemingly at their best when they played the Packers. The Cowboys looked super against the Packers, and have been stinking it up ever since--at least partly from Romo's injury. The Texans were worthless early on, but have been coming on lately also.

All the crap being spewed in this forum on various fronts is meaningless next to the PRIMARY FACTOR in this rotten season--LUCK!

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I disagree. You have to face the facts and just realize that this team has lost those close games because we have too many weaknesses on the d-line. We need a better d-line and o-line before we'll ever be considered really contenders. The o-line may already have the players on the roster and just need to gel, but the d-line is horrible.

I'm not saying the team is bad, but we need some impact players on the d-line before we go anywhere. Hopefully TT realizes that this team is close and goes for a bid catch in free agency. This team has a lot of pieces in place for a championship run, but plain drafting and waiting for players to develop will not cut it anymore. With a good draft and a stud addition to the d-line in free agency and we could be on to something next year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's a combination. The Packers have their weaknesses, but they certainly have better talent than 5-8. Whatever. It's the way it goes. I can't wait for next year.

[denverYooper]

Not even factoring in the bad officiating that has plagued some of the Packers games, I'm watching this game where the Saints are playing the Bears and it's amazing how Brees goes from playing the best game ever against the Packers to looking like total crap against the Bears. I'm pretty sure that when we play the Jaguars Sunday that they won't fumble away the game in the first 2 minutes either. It's just been that type of year for the Pack, where they get everyone when they're hot. We played Houston just as they finally get Schaub back too. Wonderful. This leads me to believe that when you play someone is just as important as anything else, thoughts?

Good scheduling luck for the Bears to get a pass-heavy team like NO @Soldier field in December. We played 'em in the superdome.

[Bretsky]

Not even factoring in the bad officiating that has plagued some of the Packers games, I'm watching this game where the Saints are playing the Bears and it's amazing how Brees goes from playing the best game ever against the Packers to looking like total crap against the Bears. I'm pretty sure that when we play the Jaguars Sunday that they won't fumble away the game in the first 2 minutes either. It's just been that type of year for the Pack, where they get everyone when they're hot. We played Houston just as they finally get Schaub back too. Wonderful. This leads me to believe that when you play someone is just as important as anything else, thoughts?


I've never bought into the luck theory. The idea that Brees had enough time in the pocket to smoke a pack of cigs and still look for an open receiver had more to do with GB's helplessness against that offense. Good teams make their breaks IMO. Whenever we needed them to step up our defense has pretty much sucked wind; that has more to do with our failures than luck

[Fred's Slacks]

Not even factoring in the bad officiating that has plagued some of the Packers games, I'm watching this game where the Saints are playing the Bears and it's amazing how Brees goes from playing the best game ever against the Packers to looking like total crap against the Bears. I'm pretty sure that when we play the Jaguars Sunday that they won't fumble away the game in the first 2 minutes either. It's just been that type of year for the Pack, where they get everyone when they're hot. We played Houston just as they finally get Schaub back too. Wonderful. This leads me to believe that when you play someone is just as important as anything else, thoughts?


I've never bought into the luck theory. The idea that Brees had enough time in the pocket to smoke a pack of cigs and still look for an open receiver had more to do with GB's helplessness against that offense. Good teams make their breaks IMO. Whenever we needed them to step up our defense has pretty much sucked wind; that has more to do with our failures than luck

I was thinking the same thing as I watched this game. The difference between stopping them consistently and getting trounced on every drive is pressure. In the 3 or 4 plays where we actually got some pressure on Brees, it was a positive defensive play (one was almost picked). Other than those plays, it was wide open all day. The Bears are able to force Brees to avoid the rush making him much less effective. We've had bad luck this season but there is no getting around our lack of pass rush right now. When healthy, we are better than 5-8 but with the state our D is in 5-8 is about right.

[Guiness]

Congratulations, Chann. You basically said what I've been saying in about a dozen posts.

Luck takes many forms. Injuries certainly ranks near the top of those. Close plays--near misses by us, close plays made by the opponents--that's another kind of luck. Bad calls by officials is another form--unless you get conspiratorial and say those officials are screwing you on purpose. If this was the NBA, I'd be making that claim, but not near as likely in the NFL.

A third major kind of bad luck is exactly what you discussed, Chann--when in the season you play a team. Last year, we caught and trounced the Giants early in the season. I'm sure there were other similar games. This year, not only New Orleans played way over their heads, but Carolina also rounded into shape against the Packers, then crushed Tampa--who I thought was the better team--the next week. And the Bucs were seemingly at their best when they played the Packers. The Cowboys looked super against the Packers, and have been stinking it up ever since--at least partly from Romo's injury. The Texans were worthless early on, but have been coming on lately also.

All the crap being spewed in this forum on various fronts is meaningless next to the PRIMARY FACTOR in this rotten season--LUCK!

Can't say I disagree, but can't say I agree either tex.

Yes, the luck's been bad at times, but that sort of stuff evens out over a season. There have been a couple of time when I've gone 'that was shitty!' (Steve Smith's catch to cap the Carolina game comes to mind) but good teams overcome that sort of thing. And don't put themselves in a position where one play can blow everything up.

When teams consistently look like world beaters against us, you have to face the fact that the reason could be that we make them look that way.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Yea there is never luck envolved at all :roll: . I suppose Chicago getting a favorable pass interference call to win the game isn't in the least bit lucky.

[Bretsky]

Yea there is never luck envolved at all :roll: . I suppose Chicago getting a favorable pass interference call to win the game isn't in the least bit lucky.


Ya, not like the red didn't screw the Bears five minutes earlier by ignoring the obvious pass interference call against Olsen in the end zone :roll:

[channtheman]

Yea there is never luck envolved at all :roll: . I suppose Chicago getting a favorable pass interference call to win the game isn't in the least bit lucky.


Ya, not like the red didn't screw the Bears five minutes earlier by ignoring the obvious pass interference call against Olsen in the end zone :roll:

He didn't call the obvious one in the end zone, true. I thought that should have been called. I can not believe that the refs called the 2nd one though as that was truly game changing. They basically gave the Bears the win on the second PI, which was a horrible call.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Yea there is never luck envolved at all :roll: . I suppose Chicago getting a favorable pass interference call to win the game isn't in the least bit lucky.


Ya, not like the red didn't screw the Bears five minutes earlier by ignoring the obvious pass interference call against Olsen in the end zone :roll:

Exactly.

[Bossman641]

Not even factoring in the bad officiating that has plagued some of the Packers games, I'm watching this game where the Saints are playing the Bears and it's amazing how Brees goes from playing the best game ever against the Packers to looking like total crap against the Bears. I'm pretty sure that when we play the Jaguars Sunday that they won't fumble away the game in the first 2 minutes either. It's just been that type of year for the Pack, where they get everyone when they're hot. We played Houston just as they finally get Schaub back too. Wonderful. This leads me to believe that when you play someone is just as important as anything else, thoughts?


I've never bought into the luck theory. The idea that Brees had enough time in the pocket to smoke a pack of cigs and still look for an open receiver had more to do with GB's helplessness against that offense. Good teams make their breaks IMO. Whenever we needed them to step up our defense has pretty much sucked wind; that has more to do with our failures than luck

I was thinking the same thing as I watched this game. The difference between stopping them consistently and getting trounced on every drive is pressure. In the 3 or 4 plays where we actually got some pressure on Brees, it was a positive defensive play (one was almost picked). Other than those plays, it was wide open all day. The Bears are able to force Brees to avoid the rush making him much less effective. We've had bad luck this season but there is no getting around our lack of pass rush right now. When healthy, we are better than 5-8 but with the state our D is in 5-8 is about right.

You have to understand that the Saints are a much team in the Superdome.

Home games - 24, 31, 27, 34, 37, 51, 29 = 33 points a game
Away games - 24, 32, 7, 20, 30, 20, 24 = 23 points a game

I can't agree that this season has been all bad luck, but I do think it has played a significant part.

This season has just been a perfect storm of injuries, bad luck, bad breaks, and poor play.

[KYPack]

This is the mirror season.

Last year we had 6 last minute-come from behind victories.

This season, we had six close ones and lost 'em all.

We weren't that good last year, & we ain't that bad this year.

With normal luck last year, we're 10-6.

This year? with average breaks, we should be a 8-8, 9-7 squad.

Next year, we are still a young team that knows you have to play 60 minutes and what it takes to win a close game.

& we'll get it done.

Cause we gotta get it done! (Old Lou Saban quote there)

[oregonpackfan]

There are many good points posted here: key injuries to defensive starters, not being able to win the close games, a couple of questionable officiating calls, etc.

Another factor has to be(and I don't mean to stir a "hornet's nest) is the absence of Favre as the team leader.

Let it be known that I feel Rodgers has overall done an admirable job as a first year starter. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has had many successes. He also displayed a considerable amount of physical toughness that some people questioned.

I have high hopes for his future as a very good starting QB for the Packers.

The fact is, that Favre was a team leader who inspired everyone around him. There is no way we could have expected Rodgers, a first year starter, to display the leadership that Favre developed over 16 years(17?) with the Packers.

Favre brought that charismatic leadership to the Packers that could have resulted in more wins this season. I am accepting the fact that he is gone. It had to happen some year. Unfortunately, it has been a tough season without Favre wearing the green and gold.

[SnakeLH2006]

There are many good points posted here: key injuries to defensive starters, not being able to win the close games, a couple of questionable officiating calls, etc.

Another factor has to be(and I don't mean to stir a "hornet's nest) is the absence of Favre as the team leader.

Let it be known that I feel Rodgers has overall done an admirable job as a first year starter. Sure, he has made mistakes but he has had many successes. He also displayed a considerable amount of physical toughness that some people questioned.

I have high hopes for his future as a very good starting QB for the Packers.

The fact is, that Favre was a team leader who inspired everyone around him. There is no way we could have expected Rodgers, a first year starter, to display the leadership that Favre developed over 16 years(17?) with the Packers.

Favre brought that charismatic leadership to the Packers that could have resulted in more wins this season. I am accepting the fact that he is gone. It had to happen some year. Unfortunately, it has been a tough season without Favre wearing the green and gold.

110% agree with everything you just said. Stats are not the end all with winning and losing. We've well outscored our opponents thus far, but have 5-8 to show for it. We are missing leadership, but that goes on TT for having such a young squad with few leaders to get us by in the "squeeker" losses.

Luck is nothing. Wins and losses is all that matter. Nobody whined last year when we lucked into some wins, so nobody should whine this year when we lost some close games. Leadership transcends those close games.

Stats are only fun when you are winning. Better luck next year, but the hell if luck should equate why we are 5-8.

[pack4to84]

No one even posted about the Saints being without the best OL which happens to be there pro bowl LT vs bears. Most of the pressure that effected Brees was from the left side of the line, by Alex Brown.

[RashanGary]

Last year I thought the Packers were not as good as their record. I thought they got very fortunate, caught some scheduling breaks and were very healthy. I remember bulldog and I both saying it as the season wound down. We both thought they didn't belong. I was suprsied how well they played Seattle but then again, Seattle was a team ready to drop off the face of relevency too. After Jolly went down, our defensive line was exposed for what it is. A bunch of decent players that need depth if they are to have a chance. This year we went in with even less depth so I thought we would struggle.

This year I think the Packers are a little better than their record. Their DL is a real, real problem so I can't say I think they're much better. The good thing is that the majority of the team has a bunch of good, young players (many of which have shown signs of being legit).

TT has to fortify that DL one way or another though. Also, Rodgers has to continue to work hard and grow as a QB and the Packers should come into next year the favorite to win this division. If we do not turn over our DL and continue to strengthen the OL, we'll never get anywhere. Our team is good everywhere but the trenches. That's good because the problems aren't everywhere and focusing on the fix should be easier. It's a bad thing because those guys are rare and expensive.

This down season can be a blessing in disguise if we can turn it into a legit star. The Hawk/Jennings draft showed us that you don't have to have a top 5 pick to get a great player and if you have one it doesn't mean shit. TT can either trade back and get two shots in the area of the draft Jennings went (the best area of the draft IMO) or if he feels there is a stud he can sit tight and pick. Regardless, we need a stud and I really hope he plays either DL or OT.

[texaspackerbacker]

I see some people still aren't willing to accept the obvious--bad luck--this is a snake-bit season.

Sure, we have some weaknesses in the O-Line and D-Line ..... and linebacker and safety and earlier at RB and corner, even a slight shortage at WR for a few games. How can you call that anything but LUCK?

And as KY pointed out, there has been some other "shitty" luck too--just enough to cost us games in several cases. And yeah, things went the other way last season. I was reluctant to admit it before the season, just like a lot of negativists are hesitating to admit it now, but we had great luck last season--scheduling, injuries, close games. And this year is in the toilet because that LUCK has gone the other way.

And don't tell me good teams overcome it. There have been a lot of major disappointments this season. We play possibly the worst of those next Sunday. Sure, it isn't all luck, but I'm just saying, pvercoming adversity is something that usually doesn't happen--and when it does, there's often an element of LUCK there too.

[sheepshead]

I disagree. You have to face the facts and just realize that this team has lost those close games because we have too many weaknesses on the d-line. We need a better d-line and o-line before we'll ever be considered really contenders. The o-line may already have the players on the roster and just need to gel, but the d-line is horrible.

I'm not saying the team is bad, but we need some impact players on the d-line before we go anywhere. Hopefully TT realizes that this team is close and goes for a bid catch in free agency. This team has a lot of pieces in place for a championship run, but plain drafting and waiting for players to develop will not cut it anymore. With a good draft and a stud addition to the d-line in free agency and we could be on to something next year.

If we were getting our ass handed to us, I'd say it was personnel. We're not. It has nothing to do with the general manager. It's coaching.

[prsnfoto]

I see some people still aren't willing to accept the obvious--bad luck--this is a snake-bit season.

Sure, we have some weaknesses in the O-Line and D-Line ..... and linebacker and safety and earlier at RB and corner, even a slight shortage at WR for a few games. How can you call that anything but LUCK?

And as KY pointed out, there has been some other "shitty" luck too--just enough to cost us games in several cases. And yeah, things went the other way last season. I was reluctant to admit it before the season, just like a lot of negativists are hesitating to admit it now, but we had great luck last season--scheduling, injuries, close games. And this year is in the toilet because that LUCK has gone the other way.

And don't tell me good teams overcome it. There have been a lot of major disappointments this season. We play possibly the worst of those next Sunday. Sure, it isn't all luck, but I'm just saying, pvercoming adversity is something that usually doesn't happen--and when it does, there's often an element of LUCK there too.


Tex you fucking crack me up!!!! If you believe this is all bad luck and not a lot of horrible planning and mismanagement from TT as far as depth and talent on the D side of the ball THEN you should have no problem believing it really is bad Karma because of Favre's whole family poking needles in voodoo dolls of TT back in Mississippi.!!!!!!!!

[prsnfoto]

I disagree. You have to face the facts and just realize that this team has lost those close games because we have too many weaknesses on the d-line. We need a better d-line and o-line before we'll ever be considered really contenders. The o-line may already have the players on the roster and just need to gel, but the d-line is horrible.

I'm not saying the team is bad, but we need some impact players on the d-line before we go anywhere. Hopefully TT realizes that this team is close and goes for a bid catch in free agency. This team has a lot of pieces in place for a championship run, but plain drafting and waiting for players to develop will not cut it anymore. With a good draft and a stud addition to the d-line in free agency and we could be on to something next year.

If we were getting our ass handed to us, I'd say it was personnel. We're not. It has nothing to do with the general manager. It's coaching.


I agree with half of you the other half needs some work. :D

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I disagree. You have to face the facts and just realize that this team has lost those close games because we have too many weaknesses on the d-line. We need a better d-line and o-line before we'll ever be considered really contenders. The o-line may already have the players on the roster and just need to gel, but the d-line is horrible.

I'm not saying the team is bad, but we need some impact players on the d-line before we go anywhere. Hopefully TT realizes that this team is close and goes for a bid catch in free agency. This team has a lot of pieces in place for a championship run, but plain drafting and waiting for players to develop will not cut it anymore. With a good draft and a stud addition to the d-line in free agency and we could be on to something next year.

If we were getting our ass handed to us, I'd say it was personnel. We're not. It has nothing to do with the general manager. It's coaching.

Actually agree with you, but you can't really believe that we are a championship team with guys we have on the d-line do you? It’s a combination of both. A good d-line with the players we have in the back seven will shot this team from the bottom ten in the league to the top ten. We have like 20 ints without a pass rush, think of how good we could be if we could combined that with stopping the run and pressuring the QB.

[sheepshead]

I disagree. You have to face the facts and just realize that this team has lost those close games because we have too many weaknesses on the d-line. We need a better d-line and o-line before we'll ever be considered really contenders. The o-line may already have the players on the roster and just need to gel, but the d-line is horrible.

I'm not saying the team is bad, but we need some impact players on the d-line before we go anywhere. Hopefully TT realizes that this team is close and goes for a bid catch in free agency. This team has a lot of pieces in place for a championship run, but plain drafting and waiting for players to develop will not cut it anymore. With a good draft and a stud addition to the d-line in free agency and we could be on to something next year.

If we were getting our ass handed to us, I'd say it was personnel. We're not. It has nothing to do with the general manager. It's coaching.

Actually agree with you, but you can't really believe that we are a championship team with guys we have on the d-line do you? It’s a combination of both. A good d-line with the players we have in the back seven will shot this team from the bottom ten in the league to the top ten. We have like 20 ints without a pass rush, think of how good we could be if we could combined that with stopping the run and pressuring the QB.

It needs to be addressed-no question.

[texaspackerbacker]

I see some people still aren't willing to accept the obvious--bad luck--this is a snake-bit season.

Sure, we have some weaknesses in the O-Line and D-Line ..... and linebacker and safety and earlier at RB and corner, even a slight shortage at WR for a few games. How can you call that anything but LUCK?

And as KY pointed out, there has been some other "shitty" luck too--just enough to cost us games in several cases. And yeah, things went the other way last season. I was reluctant to admit it before the season, just like a lot of negativists are hesitating to admit it now, but we had great luck last season--scheduling, injuries, close games. And this year is in the toilet because that LUCK has gone the other way.

And don't tell me good teams overcome it. There have been a lot of major disappointments this season. We play possibly the worst of those next Sunday. Sure, it isn't all luck, but I'm just saying, pvercoming adversity is something that usually doesn't happen--and when it does, there's often an element of LUCK there too.


Tex you fucking crack me up!!!! If you believe this is all bad luck and not a lot of horrible planning and mismanagement from TT as far as depth and talent on the D side of the ball THEN you should have no problem believing it really is bad Karma because of Favre's whole family poking needles in voodoo dolls of TT back in Mississippi.!!!!!!!!

Did I ever say ALL bad luck? Hell No. Partly, probably mostly bad luck though? No question about it. Unless you believe the conditioning coach is negligent or something silly like that, the injuries are 100% bad luck. Catching teams at the good time of their season instead of when they are down? How is that not luck? Bad officiating? Near misses? Grant breaking big runs last year and getting brought down by the last defender this year? Crosby missing a kick he usually makes that costs a game? the Smith catch for Carolina and several similar instances? Sure, it ain't ALL luck, but are you gonna claim that it ain't in large part, bad luck?

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm reading a lot of bad words about Montgomery in here. From what I've seen, he's been almost as good as Kampman in pass rushing and a helluva lot better than Kampman against the run.

There would seem to be a strong chance Jenkins will be good as new for next season, and with LUCK, he won't get hurt again. Between him and Kampman and Montgomery and Thompson and possibly some help from Hunter, I think the Packers are well-stocked at DE.

[texaspackerbacker]

Opps. I meant to post this in the Cullen Jenkins thread.




I'm reading a lot of bad words about Montgomery in here. From what I've seen, he's been almost as good as Kampman in pass rushing and a helluva lot better than Kampman against the run.

There would seem to be a strong chance Jenkins will be good as new for next season, and with LUCK, he won't get hurt again. Between him and Kampman and Montgomery and Thompson and possibly some help from Hunter, I think the Packers are well-stocked at DE.

[KYPack]

I'm reading a lot of bad words about Montgomery in here. From what I've seen, he's been almost as good as Kampman in pass rushing and a helluva lot better than Kampman against the run.

There would seem to be a strong chance Jenkins will be good as new for next season, and with LUCK, he won't get hurt again. Between him and Kampman and Montgomery and Thompson and possibly some help from Hunter, I think the Packers are well-stocked at DE.

Tex,

Montgomery has all of one sack and one move. He makes the same edge rush every time he goes QB hunting. The only thing I'd say real positive about him is decent motor and pretty fair against the run at times. He's not as good as Kamp in any department including the run.

Wrong thread?

Didn't notice.

Montcomery only makes the roster if we can't dig up a better RDE.

I hope like hell we do.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm reading a lot of bad words about Montgomery in here. From what I've seen, he's been almost as good as Kampman in pass rushing and a helluva lot better than Kampman against the run.

Montgomery has made a couple good plays in recent weeks, I think you may be drunk on these memories.

Watch Montgomery come off the ball, he is so slow it is painful to watch. The Packers started Jeremy Thompson ahead of him when they were both healthy, that says about all you need to know.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I'm reading a lot of bad words about Montgomery in here. From what I've seen, he's been almost as good as Kampman in pass rushing and a helluva lot better than Kampman against the run.

Montgomery has made a couple good plays in recent weeks, I think you may be drunk on these memories.

Watch Montgomery come off the ball, he is so slow it is painful to watch. The Packers started Jeremy Thompson ahead of him when they were both healthy, that says about all you need to know.

Montgomery and Kampman shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

[Packnut]

Good teams don't rely on luck. You can look for all the excuses you want but the fact is this team sucks on both lines and since that is the basis for ANY good team, we are what we are.

Our o-line has been totally in-consistent. One play they make their blocks and the next play it all falls apart. Is it coaching? Is it that they just can't do the ZBS? Not enough talent?

On D, well we have to many guys who stand around and make zero penetration. How many times do we see our line just get man-handeled? It's seems as though the opponent's offensive linemen have no problem "moving the pile". If we're all going to be honest around here, THIS is our biggest problem and our GM's biggest failure.

C'mon Cole and Montgomery? I seriously doubt these 2 clowns even make 90% of the teams in the NFL. Pickett is great IF his plays are limited. The guy has zero stamina. Jenkins? China doll plain and simple. He just can't stay healthy so he has little value. So what are we left with? Kampman and that's it. Harrell is a bust and anyone denying it is just brain-dead. Jolly has taken a HUGE step back. May-be knowing your gonna do time is a downer? What-ever the reason, he's another waste of a player.

So all you guys thinking next season is gonna get better, let me have what your smoking. Teddy can use our first 4 picks on d-linemen and we all know rookies have minimum impact. So that leaves FA and using those 2 words in the same sentence with Teddy is an oxy-moron. The day Mr A.Haynesworth signs a Packer contract will be the day I kiss Teddy's ass. I hate to be the "grinch" who stole next season but even a soft schedule puts us no better than 8-8.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Good teams don't rely on luck. You can look for all the excuses you want but the fact is this team sucks on both lines and since that is the basis for ANY good team, we are what we are.

Our o-line has been totally in-consistent. One play they make their blocks and the next play it all falls apart. Is it coaching? Is it that they just can't do the ZBS? Not enough talent?

On D, well we have to many guys who stand around and make zero penetration. How many times do we see our line just get man-handeled? It's seems as though the opponent's offensive linemen have no problem "moving the pile". If we're all going to be honest around here, THIS is our biggest problem and our GM's biggest failure.

C'mon Cole and Montgomery? I seriously doubt these 2 clowns even make 90% of the teams in the NFL. Pickett is great IF his plays are limited. The guy has zero stamina. Jenkins? China doll plain and simple. He just can't stay healthy so he has little value. So what are we left with? Kampman and that's it. Harrell is a bust and anyone denying it is just brain-dead. Jolly has taken a HUGE step back. May-be knowing your gonna do time is a downer? What-ever the reason, he's another waste of a player.

So all you guys thinking next season is gonna get better, let me have what your smoking. Teddy can use our first 4 picks on d-linemen and we all know rookies have minimum impact. So that leaves FA and using those 2 words in the same sentence with Teddy is an oxy-moron. The day Mr A.Haynesworth signs a Packer contract will be the day I kiss Teddy's ass. I hate to be the "grinch" who stole next season but even a soft schedule puts us no better than 8-8.

I agree and disagree. The d-line is not good, but it is not as bad as you make it out to be. Kampman, Pickett, Jolly, and Jenkins are all good players worth keeping and would make most NFL rosters. The problem is that to be a good d-line you have to be at least 7 deep and have couple studs starting. The only stud is Kampman and by himself is not enough. I agree that just drafting players is not going to cut it and we need a big signing on the d-line if we are ever going to contend. A big signing and a couple draft picks on the d-line and you can see a quick turnaround.

[RashanGary]

I'm not so concerned with a "quick" turnaround. As long as it turns around I'm OK. I expect to be playoff competitive more often than not over the next 10 years, but I don't put it all on any one or two seasons. It's a long term thing. We have to have a lot of turn over on the DL though. Whether it be young guys or free agents we cannot have the same players we have this year. I would hope for one free agent, either DT or DE. I would hope he puts a little more overall recources in that area.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I'm not so concerned with a "quick" turnaround. As long as it turns around I'm OK. I expect to be playoff competitive more often than not over the next 10 years, but I don't put it all on any one or two seasons. It's a long term thing. We have to have a lot of turn over on the DL though. Whether it be young guys or free agents we cannot have the same players we have this year. I would hope for one free agent, either DT or DE. I would hope he puts a little more overall recources in that area.

Having a quick turnaround is the whole point of signing a free agent. I you just want to draft, draft, draft, then before you know it Kampman will be 30 something and possibly declining and Pickett will probably be gone. Not only that, its not easy to draft stud d-lineman. This is TT fifth draft coming up, I think its time we make a push.

We got the Wrs, the QB, Rbs, CB, Lbs, etc. Let’s flicking go for it. Lets take a chance, that sometimes is the difference. As Patler already point out, we will have like 35-40 million in cap space. Thats more than enough to sign your own and dip your hand into free agency.

[Partial]

I'm not so concerned with a "quick" turnaround. As long as it turns around I'm OK. I expect to be playoff competitive more often than not over the next 10 years, but I don't put it all on any one or two seasons. It's a long term thing. We have to have a lot of turn over on the DL though. Whether it be young guys or free agents we cannot have the same players we have this year. I would hope for one free agent, either DT or DE. I would hope he puts a little more overall recources in that area.

The fact that we are discussing this instead of how we're going to miss watching the Packers during the first round bye disgusts me. We went to the NFC championship game and took the world champ to overtime in it. We were the youngest team in the league, poised to take a HUGE step forward.

The fact that we're having posts like this says to me TT has not done an adequate job, and hugely undervalued the pieces that were here last year and aren't now, and overvalued the pieces that are here. It also says to me this team got lazy and did not work nearly as hard as they should have in the offseason. They look slow and have been injury prone all year.

[The Leaper]

I agree with you Partial.

Thompson had a horrible offseason. He did next to nothing to improve the team, but did several major things to weaken it. He had opportunities to land some key FAs, but passed on all of them. Our highest draft picks have offered very little in the way of contribution to the team. Thompson continues to acquire draft picks and cash...while the team goes backward.

Thompson and McCarthy are suddenly both on thin ice.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I agree with you Partial.

Thompson had a horrible offseason. He did next to nothing to improve the team, but did several major things to weaken it. He had opportunities to land some key FAs, but passed on all of them. Our highest draft picks have offered very little in the way of contribution to the team. Thompson continues to acquire draft picks and cash...while the team goes backward.

Thompson and McCarthy are suddenly both on thin ice.

:bclap:

[Bretsky]

I'm not so concerned with a "quick" turnaround. As long as it turns around I'm OK. I expect to be playoff competitive more often than not over the next 10 years, but I don't put it all on any one or two seasons. It's a long term thing. We have to have a lot of turn over on the DL though. Whether it be young guys or free agents we cannot have the same players we have this year. I would hope for one free agent, either DT or DE. I would hope he puts a little more overall recources in that area.


How many years does Ted get a free pass ? I don't find sub .500 acceptable no matter how I shake it. We're in the crappiest division and we're near the bottom.

Witht hat being said, we're not that far away; honestly we weren't last year either and could have stayed near that level but we again just let things pan out with the youngsters....who have not developed.

It's time for Ted to stay awake the first few weeks of free agency when all of the players come off the board instead of seeing how thing play out.

I think he's capable of doing that; but maybe I'm wrong.

He did sign Pickett fairly early and beat out at least one team that wanted him.

[BEARMAN]

Sour Grapes ? :twisted:

[cheesner]

How many years does Ted get a free pass ? I don't find sub .500 acceptable no matter how I shake it. We're in the crappiest division and we're near the bottom.

Last season we were an OT loss away from the Superbowl. I expected to be very competitive this season and it just hasn't gone that way. Did TT need to improve the team or go after big name FAs to be good? No, we were already good. I expected more young players to step forward this season and perhaps push us into the dominating catagory.

The offense is there, IMHO. The defense has been the big let down. It is part due to injuries, and part due to veterans in the decline. But, the main reason for our troubles is defensive coaching. I think the defense has improved in talent, and yet is doing worse.

[Dabaddestbear]

Not even factoring in the bad officiating that has plagued some of the Packers games, I'm watching this game where the Saints are playing the Bears and it's amazing how Brees goes from playing the best game ever against the Packers to looking like total crap against the Bears. I'm pretty sure that when we play the Jaguars Sunday that they won't fumble away the game in the first 2 minutes either. It's just been that type of year for the Pack, where they get everyone when they're hot. We played Houston just as they finally get Schaub back too. Wonderful. This leads me to believe that when you play someone is just as important as anything else, thoughts?
The Bears put a good rush on him and thats why he looked like crap. Funny how when the Bears beat an opponent some of you say "the other team" just played like crap instead of the Bears just outplaying them. Any Given Sunday , is why this game is played. Brees rarely gets touched or sacked, the Bears did a lot of both in comparison. Keep in mind if it wasnt for the goal line fumble this game wouldn't have even been close. Or the OBVIOUS pass interference that should have been called against them when they wrapped up Olsen in the end zone. But enough of that... Why are you talking about the Bears anyway when trying to explain the Packers major suckage this season? I understand that the Bears were predicted to finish no better than second to last in the Division this year, while the Pack was favored to win it by most, and that gets under your skin. But get over it.

Also just as amusing how when a Bear fan say the Packers just got lucky, some of you are quick to shout sour grapes..but when you are having a bad season you like to put "luck" back into play. Why cant you just admit when your team is sucking or playing like crap? Hell, even as a Bears fan I do.

[Dabaddestbear]

Yea there is never luck envolved at all :roll: . I suppose Chicago getting a favorable pass interference call to win the game isn't in the least bit lucky.


Ya, not like the red didn't screw the Bears five minutes earlier by ignoring the obvious pass interference call against Olsen in the end zone :roll:

He didn't call the obvious one in the end zone, true. I thought that should have been called. I can not believe that the refs called the 2nd one though as that was truly game changing. They basically gave the Bears the win on the second PI, which was a horrible call.
Even the second one was not a horrible call. If its pass interference you call it.
He grabbed him...so please tell me how that WASNT pass interference?
-- I cant wait to hear this one. :roll:

[Dabaddestbear]

No one even posted about the Saints being without the best OL which happens to be there pro bowl LT vs bears. Most of the pressure that effected Brees was from the left side of the line, by Alex Brown.
uh, and no one talked about how the Bears have NO pro-bowlers on the O-line this year. So that should have made it balanced at the least. Nor did we have any D-linemen rushing him on either end.
Next point?

[texaspackerbacker]

I repost this because I STILL haven't gotten any answers as to HOW the things I mentioned are somehow NOT bad luck.

Good teams don't rely on luck? Come on! They are good teams BECAUSE they are lucky. Ask the Patriots about that from last year to this--or Indy from early in the season 'til now.






I see some people still aren't willing to accept the obvious--bad luck--this is a snake-bit season.

Sure, we have some weaknesses in the O-Line and D-Line ..... and linebacker and safety and earlier at RB and corner, even a slight shortage at WR for a few games. How can you call that anything but LUCK?

And as KY pointed out, there has been some other "shitty" luck too--just enough to cost us games in several cases. And yeah, things went the other way last season. I was reluctant to admit it before the season, just like a lot of negativists are hesitating to admit it now, but we had great luck last season--scheduling, injuries, close games. And this year is in the toilet because that LUCK has gone the other way.

And don't tell me good teams overcome it. There have been a lot of major disappointments this season. We play possibly the worst of those next Sunday. Sure, it isn't all luck, but I'm just saying, pvercoming adversity is something that usually doesn't happen--and when it does, there's often an element of LUCK there too.


Tex you fucking crack me up!!!! If you believe this is all bad luck and not a lot of horrible planning and mismanagement from TT as far as depth and talent on the D side of the ball THEN you should have no problem believing it really is bad Karma because of Favre's whole family poking needles in voodoo dolls of TT back in Mississippi.!!!!!!!!

Did I ever say ALL bad luck? Hell No. Partly, probably mostly bad luck though? No question about it. Unless you believe the conditioning coach is negligent or something silly like that, the injuries are 100% bad luck. Catching teams at the good time of their season instead of when they are down? How is that not luck? Bad officiating? Near misses? Grant breaking big runs last year and getting brought down by the last defender this year? Crosby missing a kick he usually makes that costs a game? the Smith catch for Carolina and several similar instances? Sure, it ain't ALL luck, but are you gonna claim that it ain't in large part, bad luck?

[esoxx]

Last year was mostly the result of good luck.

This year was mostly the result of bad luck.

Hopefully next year the Packers can get back to lucky football.

Playing with pride, poise, disclipline, passion, and execution is way over-rated.

:roll:

[channtheman]

Not even factoring in the bad officiating that has plagued some of the Packers games, I'm watching this game where the Saints are playing the Bears and it's amazing how Brees goes from playing the best game ever against the Packers to looking like total crap against the Bears. I'm pretty sure that when we play the Jaguars Sunday that they won't fumble away the game in the first 2 minutes either. It's just been that type of year for the Pack, where they get everyone when they're hot. We played Houston just as they finally get Schaub back too. Wonderful. This leads me to believe that when you play someone is just as important as anything else, thoughts?
The Bears put a good rush on him and thats why he looked like crap. Funny how when the Bears beat an opponent some of you say "the other team" just played like crap instead of the Bears just outplaying them. Any Given Sunday , is why this game is played. Brees rarely gets touched or sacked, the Bears did a lot of both in comparison. Keep in mind if it wasnt for the goal line fumble this game wouldn't have even been close. Or the OBVIOUS pass interference that should have been called against them when they wrapped up Olsen in the end zone. But enough of that... Why are you talking about the Bears anyway when trying to explain the Packers major suckage this season? I understand that the Bears were predicted to finish no better than second to last in the Division this year, while the Pack was favored to win it by most, and that gets under your skin. But get over it.

Also just as amusing how when a Bear fan say the Packers just got lucky, some of you are quick to shout sour grapes..but when you are having a bad season you like to put "luck" back into play. Why cant you just admit when your team is sucking or playing like crap? Hell, even as a Bears fan I do.

Oh come on now. Don't get so mad that even when the Bears have a "good" season that they still don't make the playoffs. :lol: :lol:

[channtheman]

Yea there is never luck envolved at all :roll: . I suppose Chicago getting a favorable pass interference call to win the game isn't in the least bit lucky.


Ya, not like the red didn't screw the Bears five minutes earlier by ignoring the obvious pass interference call against Olsen in the end zone :roll:

He didn't call the obvious one in the end zone, true. I thought that should have been called. I can not believe that the refs called the 2nd one though as that was truly game changing. They basically gave the Bears the win on the second PI, which was a horrible call.
Even the second one was not a horrible call. If its pass interference you call it.
He grabbed him...so please tell me how that WASNT pass interference?
-- I cant wait to hear this one. :roll:

I didn't record the game so I can't go back and rewatch it, but I recall thinking that it was a VERY ticky tack call that should not have been made, especially in the situation of overtime where that basically gives the other team the win. I think the Saint didn't look back but kinda ran into the receiver just as the ball was getting there. That is not PI. Maybe face guarding for not looking back and I don't know what the penalty for that is but it was definitely not a PI penalty.

[channtheman]

One last point that is kind of off topic. Does ANYONE else think that the eye roll emoticon is totally annoying. I feel bad when I see someone using it because I just can't help but feel that instead of actually putting forth an argument, that they would rather instead show everyone how dumb they think you are by rolling their eyes like a little teenage girl.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Pretty fucking annoying, eh?

[Dabaddestbear]

Yea there is never luck envolved at all :roll: . I suppose Chicago getting a favorable pass interference call to win the game isn't in the least bit lucky.


Ya, not like the red didn't screw the Bears five minutes earlier by ignoring the obvious pass interference call against Olsen in the end zone :roll:

He didn't call the obvious one in the end zone, true. I thought that should have been called. I can not believe that the refs called the 2nd one though as that was truly game changing. They basically gave the Bears the win on the second PI, which was a horrible call.
Even the second one was not a horrible call. If its pass interference you call it.
He grabbed him...so please tell me how that WASNT pass interference?
-- I cant wait to hear this one. :roll:

I didn't record the game so I can't go back and rewatch it, but I recall thinking that it was a VERY ticky tack call that should not have been made, especially in the situation of overtime where that basically gives the other team the win. I think the Saint didn't look back but kinda ran into the receiver just as the ball was getting there. That is not PI. Maybe face guarding for not looking back and I don't know what the penalty for that is but it was definitely not a PI penalty.
If you run into a player as the ball is getting there it is considered pass interference. He grabbed his damn arm and some jersey..lol.

[Dabaddestbear]

One last point that is kind of off topic. Does ANYONE else think that the eye roll emoticon is totally annoying. I feel bad when I see someone using it because I just can't help but feel that instead of actually putting forth an argument, that they would rather instead show everyone how dumb they think you are by rolling their eyes like a little teenage girl.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Pretty fucking annoying, eh?
well take it up with your Admin buddy. And since majority of the posters on here use it, i guess you are in the minority.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: --pretty cool if u ask me. :wink: -- I bet you think the wink is annoying also cuz it seems like it is making fun of one eyed people..lol

[Dabaddestbear]

Not even factoring in the bad officiating that has plagued some of the Packers games, I'm watching this game where the Saints are playing the Bears and it's amazing how Brees goes from playing the best game ever against the Packers to looking like total crap against the Bears. I'm pretty sure that when we play the Jaguars Sunday that they won't fumble away the game in the first 2 minutes either. It's just been that type of year for the Pack, where they get everyone when they're hot. We played Houston just as they finally get Schaub back too. Wonderful. This leads me to believe that when you play someone is just as important as anything else, thoughts?
The Bears put a good rush on him and thats why he looked like crap. Funny how when the Bears beat an opponent some of you say "the other team" just played like crap instead of the Bears just outplaying them. Any Given Sunday , is why this game is played. Brees rarely gets touched or sacked, the Bears did a lot of both in comparison. Keep in mind if it wasnt for the goal line fumble this game wouldn't have even been close. Or the OBVIOUS pass interference that should have been called against them when they wrapped up Olsen in the end zone. But enough of that... Why are you talking about the Bears anyway when trying to explain the Packers major suckage this season? I understand that the Bears were predicted to finish no better than second to last in the Division this year, while the Pack was favored to win it by most, and that gets under your skin. But get over it.

Also just as amusing how when a Bear fan say the Packers just got lucky, some of you are quick to shout sour grapes..but when you are having a bad season you like to put "luck" back into play. Why cant you just admit when your team is sucking or playing like crap? Hell, even as a Bears fan I do.

Oh come on now. Don't get so mad that even when the Bears have a "good" season that they still don't make the playoffs. :lol: :lol:
Well they were predicted to be next to last in the NFC. But how must you feel that the Pack was predicted to win the division and some pack fans were even talking about sneaking into the SB. -- You may have been one of them..let me check.

[Fred's Slacks]

If you run into a player as the ball is getting there it is considered pass interference. He grabbed his damn arm and some jersey..lol.

Not commenting on the play you guys are refering to but this is one thing that really gets me sometimes. You'll have a receiver who has burned his guy so badly that he's 5 yds past him. Then the QB throws such a piss poor pass that the receiver comes to an abrupt and complete stop to come back for it. Meanwhile the db, trying to catch up, can't stop and runs into the receiver and draws a interference flag. I remember a good example of this in the Carolina Tampa game were Delhome badly under threw a receiver. Ref's need to stop bailing QB's out for piss poor throws. It's one thing when there's tight coverage and the QB throws to the back shoulder, but when the guy has a step the QB should be leading the receiver.

[Rastak]

I'm with ya Fred. In the play being discussed above it did appear the dude grabbed the receiver's arm but you're general observation is one I agree with. If the DB is turned around and playing the ball, he should be able to run the dude over but if he's keeps running head down and bowls over a guy trying to catch the ball I can see why the cal is made.


Pass interference is certainly a judgement call but I'd like for teams to be able to challenge that call and perhaps the ref who threw the flag could be the one to go under the hood and review his call. I can see how it could promote discord amongst the officiating teams to have their teammates overrule judgement calls and that might avoid this pitfall.

[MJZiggy]

Question becomes then what happens when you get a guy who's never willing to admit he made a mistake...

[Rastak]

Question becomes then what happens when you get a guy who's never willing to admit he made a mistake...


Then he get's graded and fired at best or nothing changes in those instances at worst.

[MJZiggy]

But if nothing changes, you've got coaches blowing timeouts on challenges when there's really no hope of overturning the call...I think it should be the head ref to review it. They all work under him anyway...

[Rastak]

But if nothing changes, you've got coaches blowing timeouts on challenges when there's really no hope of overturning the call...I think it should be the head ref to review it. They all work under him anyway...


First off you said "what if a guy never admits he's wrong". Are you assuming that's everyone?

Look at it this way. Refs blow pass interference calls all the time. And they can say after the game when being reviewed on performance "it was a bang bang play and that's what I saw". That argument is fine and true even. If a coach throws a red flag and the replay clearly shows this yet the guy making the call doesn't change it, don't you think he'll get marked down for this? No replay, he likely wouldn't.

In addition, if it's close, don't challenge it.

One final point, have you seen plays reviewed where they seem to blow it on review? I sure have. I don't see where it would be all that different. Keep in mind, these can be 50 yard penalties. Having some recourse on obvious bad calls is a positive in my book.

[Dabaddestbear]

If you run into a player as the ball is getting there it is considered pass interference. He grabbed his damn arm and some jersey..lol.

Not commenting on the play you guys are refering to but this is one thing that really gets me sometimes. You'll have a receiver who has burned his guy so badly that he's 5 yds past him. Then the QB throws such a piss poor pass that the receiver comes to an abrupt and complete stop to come back for it. Meanwhile the db, trying to catch up, can't stop and runs into the receiver and draws a interference flag. I remember a good example of this in the Carolina Tampa game were Delhome badly under threw a receiver. Ref's need to stop bailing QB's out for piss poor throws. It's one thing when there's tight coverage and the QB throws to the back shoulder, but when the guy has a step the QB should be leading the receiver.
I agree with you. Dammit! I just agreed with a Packer fan! :whaa:

[MJZiggy]

But if nothing changes, you've got coaches blowing timeouts on challenges when there's really no hope of overturning the call...I think it should be the head ref to review it. They all work under him anyway...


First off you said "what if a guy never admits he's wrong". Are you assuming that's everyone?

Look at it this way. Refs blow pass interference calls all the time. And they can say after the game when being reviewed on performance "it was a bang bang play and that's what I saw". That argument is fine and true even. If a coach throws a red flag and the replay clearly shows this yet the guy making the call doesn't change it, don't you think he'll get marked down for this? No replay, he likely wouldn't.

In addition, if it's close, don't challenge it.

One final point, have you seen plays reviewed where they seem to blow it on review? I sure have. I don't see where it would be all that different. Keep in mind, these can be 50 yard penalties. Having some recourse on obvious bad calls is a positive in my book.

I'm not saying in any way that these calls shouldn't be reviewed. I'm all for reviewing any call at anytime to be sure you have it right. I just don't think that it should be the same ref who made the bad call having to go out in front of 70K people and a national TV audience and saying, "uhhh....well, yeah. I fucked that one up." I'd rather the head ref do it. I think if the ref want to take a look before they throw a flag in the first place, that's fine too.