Draft position? Interesting outlook now...

[Sef0r]

Lets see, as of right now (actually lets count tomorrow too since Cleveland wont win) the Packers will finish 10th in draft pick position.

However, over the next 2 weeks I can see us only winning 1 more game which is Detroit. I think the Bears are itching for revenge.

That will take us to 6-10 Unless the Bills or Chargers loose the next 2 games to also go 6-10 (I see them both winning at least 1 more) we will be in the top 10 in the draft.

The Jags will likely finish 5-11 with the niners going 6-10 (I think they beat the rams).

Esentially, the Packers are practically in the top 10...EVEN if they win the next 2 games, unless both Bills and Chargers lose both their last games.

Picking in the top 10 is never a guarantee of a sure fire stud, but the possibility of the upcoming class having some great players in the top 15 is never a bad thing....

[packrulz]

Yes, I'm looking ahead to the draft too, the Pack doesn't really help themselves by winning, I think they should sit Clifton down too and figure out who they want to keep or cut. They should also play the backups more like Flynn, Brohm, Finley, BJack, James Jones, Sitton, Barbre, Malone, Thompson, & etc.

[Partial]

If I'm looking at a losing season season and need a stud, I'm going to go ahead and lose both of those games. Movin' on up is worth a LOT at the top of round 1.

[cpk1994]

If I'm looking at a losing season season and need a stud, I'm going to go ahead and lose both of those games. Movin' on up is worth a LOT at the top of round 1.Congratulations on insulting every player in the locker room. I think Herm Edwards said it the best:

"You play to win the DAMN game!"

Your loser BS shows that it is a good thing your are not a head coach. Or a GM for that matter.

[RashanGary]

Thanks for the outlook. 9 or 10 looks like a good place to be if a lot of the juniors come out that they are projecting.

DE Everette Brown, DT Mount Cody and OT Eugene Monroe are all being talked about in that area of the draft. While the draft publications can be greatly off at the end of the first - the rest of the draft, they are usually pretty accurate in the top 10 or so. Assuming ESPN is close to reality, it looks like best player could meet one of our biggest needs.

I'm hoping for Everette Brown but I'd be damn happy with the other two as well. I'd take a stud anywhere (cept receiver or QB) but I'm really hoping it's one of the need areas this year.

[texaspackerbacker]

Teams just don't go out and lose on purpose in the NFL--not even in situations more obvious than this. With nothing on the line to win for, though, it may well happen anyway. I think we're actually 9/10/11 with Jacksonville and San Francisco right now.

A good Offensive Tackle would seem to be the most likely pick, although they may figure that they can get a good ZBS-type lower down.

I can't see taking a D Lineman, as we have a lot of good young players who probably just need developing.

I'd like to see the Packers get a good quick RB--Steve Slaton or Felix Jones type. That also, however, would probably come lower down than the top third of the first round.

Possibly a top quality cover corner might be the most likely. Injuries happen; Harris and Woodson aren't gonna last forever; The Woodson at safety thing seemed to work well; Tramon Williams has been hot and cold; Patrick Lee may or may not amount to anything. I don't see the Packers changing their D scheme, so corner is still the most important position--and you should be able to get somebody really good at #9, 10, or 11 in the first round.

[sheepshead]

If I'm looking at a losing season season and need a stud, I'm going to go ahead and lose both of those games. Movin' on up is worth a LOT at the top of round 1.

wont happen

[channtheman]

If I'm looking at a losing season season and need a stud, I'm going to go ahead and lose both of those games. Movin' on up is worth a LOT at the top of round 1.Congratulations on insulting every player in the locker room. I think Herm Edwards said it the best:

"You play to win the DAMN game!"

Your loser BS shows that it is a good thing your are not a head coach. Or a GM for that matter.

If MM gets these guys to rally when it would be best for us to lose to get a higher pick, then how come he wasn't able to do that in any of our other 6 close losses. In this one, just lose out and get a better pick.

[Deputy Nutz]

Thanks for the outlook. 9 or 10 looks like a good place to be if a lot of the juniors come out that they are projecting.

DE Everette Brown, DT Mount Cody and OT Eugene Monroe are all being talked about in that area of the draft. While the draft publications can be greatly off at the end of the first - the rest of the draft, they are usually pretty accurate in the top 10 or so. Assuming ESPN is close to reality, it looks like best player could meet one of our biggest needs.

I'm hoping for Everette Brown but I'd be damn happy with the other two as well. I'd take a stud anywhere (cept receiver or QB) but I'm really hoping it's one of the need areas this year.

Cody is interesting but I wouldn't risk a top ten pick on an overweight defensive tackle no matter how talented. It never seems to work out.

I could care less if the Packers win in Chicago, but if they pack it in against an 0-15 team two weeks from now poor Jim Rome will go on a shooting spree. I don't want that.

[Kyle.McCarroll]

[Cody is interesting but I wouldn't risk a top ten pick on an overweight defensive tackle no matter how talented. It never seems to work out.

Exactly. But he's not really uber talented; he's just bigger than everyone else. He needs to lose some weight and really work on his technique because just being bigger than everyone else won't work in the NFL. He would be wise to return to school.

As crazy it may seem to some of you, if Cody came out this year he probably wouldn't go in the first round.

[LL2]

We need a DE that can play opposite Kampman, not an overweight DT. We can move Jenkins back inside next year.

[Kyle.McCarroll]

We need a DE that can play opposite Kampman, not an overweight DT. We can move Jenkins back inside next year.

I disagree. I think a run-stuffing DT is priority #1. Cullen Jenkins provided a lot more help in the pass rush than in run support before he was injured and the stats prove it. When he comes back he will take the RDE spot back. A rookie DE probably wouldn't even start.

Ask any coach in the league if they would rather be able to consistently stop the run or rush the passer and my guess is that all 32 of them would choose to stop the run.

[MateoInMex]

Losing on purpose only happens in the NBA. Talk about a fall from grace since the mid 1980's then the Jordan era. What a shitty pass-time...watching the NBA...especially regular season games.

[denverYooper]

I still want them to beat the hell out of Chicago on Monday. No way should they just give up and lose out.

Someone brought up the point in a different thread that we're a more appealing FA suitor if we can finish with some W's. I agree.

[LL2]

I still want them to beat the hell out of Chicago on Monday. No way should they just give up and lose out.

Someone brought up the point in a different thread that we're a more appealing FA suitor if we can finish with some W's. I agree.

I agree. The team needs to have pride and win against Chicago and Detroit...but a top 10 pick would be a nice stocking stuffer.

[rbaloha1]

Taylor Mays or Ray Maulauga (sp?)

[bobblehead]

Thanks for the outlook. 9 or 10 looks like a good place to be if a lot of the juniors come out that they are projecting.

DE Everette Brown, DT Mount Cody and OT Eugene Monroe are all being talked about in that area of the draft. While the draft publications can be greatly off at the end of the first - the rest of the draft, they are usually pretty accurate in the top 10 or so. Assuming ESPN is close to reality, it looks like best player could meet one of our biggest needs.

I'm hoping for Everette Brown but I'd be damn happy with the other two as well. I'd take a stud anywhere (cept receiver or QB) but I'm really hoping it's one of the need areas this year.

Cody is interesting but I wouldn't risk a top ten pick on an overweight defensive tackle no matter how talented. It never seems to work out.

I could care less if the Packers win in Chicago, but if they pack it in against an 0-15 team two weeks from now poor Jim Rome will go on a shooting spree. I don't want that.

Even if he goes on a shooting spree some washed up QB will bitch slap him before anyone gets hurt.

[Sef0r]

Well I for one would rather they try and win the next two games, I am not all for them loosing to gain an extra spot in the draft. Our move up the draft order is very minimal if we loose the next two and our drop has the potential to be very minimal too if we WIN the next two.

I would rather kick the crap out of the Bears and Lions to end the season smiling and get a 12th round pick then loose then next two and esentially be angry until next season. I am upset now for not making the playoffs, but I would be angry if we lost the next two....no matter how bad our defense is now.

My own personaly opinion. DT would probably be a priority for TT, you don't have depth there and you need to stop the run next year.

[cpk1994]

If I'm looking at a losing season season and need a stud, I'm going to go ahead and lose both of those games. Movin' on up is worth a LOT at the top of round 1.Congratulations on insulting every player in the locker room. I think Herm Edwards said it the best:

"You play to win the DAMN game!"

Your loser BS shows that it is a good thing your are not a head coach. Or a GM for that matter.

If MM gets these guys to rally when it would be best for us to lose to get a higher pick, then how come he wasn't able to do that in any of our other 6 close losses. In this one, just lose out and get a better pick.This has to be the most moronic things I have ever heard. What kind of message to the players by telling them to lose? You play to WIN every week regardless of circumstance. Your post points out why I would never want you for a football coach.

[DonHutson]

I'd rather have two wins, some positive momentum, a little bit of resurgant optimism, and the #12 pick than two losses, a crapactular losing streak that carries into next year, a dark cloud over the off-season, and pick #9 - or whatever we'd end up with.

[Bretsky]

I'd rather have two wins, some positive momentum, a little bit of resurgant optimism, and the #12 pick than two losses, a crapactular losing streak that carries into next year, a dark cloud over the off-season, and pick #9 - or whatever we'd end up with.


Even if it swayed MM's decision and he kept Vanilla Bob ?

[pbmax]

I'd rather have two wins, some positive momentum, a little bit of resurgant optimism, and the #12 pick than two losses, a crapactular losing streak that carries into next year, a dark cloud over the off-season, and pick #9 - or whatever we'd end up with.


Even if it swayed MM's decision and he kept Vanilla Bob ?
Bob wasn't too vanilla yesterday, but in true fashion it killed us. Had he run his normal 4-3 Over, we would have been fine.

If he goes, they all need to go because its become clear we cannot play another form of defense at the current time. My fear now is that Sanders will be the sacrificial lamb but other incompetents will stay. The excuse will be injuries and the fact that it is hard to change your defensive scheme mid-season even when faced with holes due to injuries.

Its a tough one. I wouldn't want to have to evaluate the coaching staff on the defensive side with this many injuries. The only place its clear cut is that we are short of players on the D line. But is it Hairston and Dunn who are to blame?

[texaspackerbacker]

You people that are stupidly crying for a "more aggressive" D Coordinator are gonna be disappointed. Even if McCarthy yields to the whiners and gets rid of Sanders, he's not going to get some half-wit who favors a scheme that McCarthy himself doesn't like--overdoing the damn blitzing, zone instead of man coverage, or whatever other idiocy some in here want to see.

[Bretsky]

You people that are stupidly crying for a "more aggressive" D Coordinator are gonna be disappointed. Even if McCarthy yields to the whiners and gets rid of Sanders, he's not going to get some half-wit who favors a scheme that McCarthy himself doesn't like--overdoing the damn blitzing, zone instead of man coverage, or whatever other idiocy some in here want to see.


There are some brilliant DC's that will come available Tex; we don't have one

Some of them favor the blitzing more than others; either way we are due for an upgrade there

[cheesner]

You people that are stupidly crying for a "more aggressive" D Coordinator are gonna be disappointed. Even if McCarthy yields to the whiners and gets rid of Sanders, he's not going to get some half-wit who favors a scheme that McCarthy himself doesn't like--overdoing the damn blitzing, zone instead of man coverage, or whatever other idiocy some in here want to see.


There are some brilliant DC's that will come available Tex; we don't have one

Some of them favor the blitzing more than others; either way we are due for an upgrade there
The problem is not that we are too 'vanilla' it is that the players are not very disciplined in their assignments. They goof on assignments, they don't play with sound fundamentals, and they just don't appear to be a cohesive aggressive unit.

Simply put: the Packer defense does not appear to be well coached. Bates did a better job with less talent in an identical scheme.

[pack4to84]

I want the Packers to win out beat those bears and lions. finish 5-1 in the division. Like Mike Holmgren said when he was here win your division first. TT will take the best talent available at the time we draft. The top of the draft is full of DE so he might trade down a few spots if he wants a DE. I think he might go CB in first rd. I also think that Woodson will be starting at SS next year. He looks good playing that position. That is why I think TT goes CB first rd taking Malcolm or Vontae.

[RashanGary]

Bob wasn't too vanilla yesterday, but in true fashion it killed us. Had he run his normal 4-3 Over, we would have been fine.

If he goes, they all need to go because its become clear we cannot play another form of defense at the current time. My fear now is that Sanders will be the sacrificial lamb but other incompetents will stay. The excuse will be injuries and the fact that it is hard to change your defensive scheme mid-season even when faced with holes due to injuries.

Its a tough one. I wouldn't want to have to evaluate the coaching staff on the defensive side with this many injuries. The only place its clear cut is that we are short of players on the D line. But is it Hairston and Dunn who are to blame?

Well said. I'm OK if we have something better lined up than Sanders but let's not pretend like he did all of this. We lost three of our top 6 defensive lineman from a year ago and had nobody to replace them. It's similar to lsoing Rivera and Wahle. It hurts.

[run pMc]

This is the Bears and the winless Lions -- imagine the embarassment of losing to an 0-15 club -- and people are talking about throwing the game? What is that?
I'd rather see GB win...especially since it comes down to 2 or three spots in the draft order.
I have no idea who TT will draft in R1; of course it will "BPA". For grins I'm going to throw out an idea: TT drafts a Safety.

I'll shake up the snow globe and predict TT spends a few more picks on OL & DL, and stuns PackerNation by signing a free agent TE to push the unspectacular duo of Humphrey/Finley for a roster spot.

[cpk1994]

You people that are stupidly crying for a "more aggressive" D Coordinator are gonna be disappointed. Even if McCarthy yields to the whiners and gets rid of Sanders, he's not going to get some half-wit who favors a scheme that McCarthy himself doesn't like--overdoing the damn blitzing, zone instead of man coverage, or whatever other idiocy some in here want to see.First of all find me one poster who wants a blitz happy scheme. Then find me one poster who wants heavy zone. All we want is someone who can be creative and suprise the opponents offense. When you have players on other teams come out and say nothing the Packers D does suprises them and that everything they see , they saw on film, that is an indictment of the DC and his failure to try to mix things up and get the opposing O guessing. Bob Sanders is incompetent and needs to go. Keeping him becuase you don't want to change the scheme is a mistake.

[Freak Out]

Ok...you are the GM, on the clock and these four guys are there for you....who do you take?

DE/OLB, Brian Orakpo, Texas

OT, Andre Smith, Alabama (JR)

OT, Jason Smith, Baylor

DT, B. J. Raji, Boston College

You can assume we fired Sanders and switched to a 3-4 if you like. :lol:

[MOBB DEEP]

Losing on purpose only happens in the NBA. Talk about a fall from grace since the mid 1980's then the Jordan era. What a shitty pass-time...watching the NBA...especially regular season games.

watchn celtics is AWESOME baby

peace larry joe bird

[MOBB DEEP]

play hard for the fans

[Freak Out]

Losing on purpose only happens in the NBA. Talk about a fall from grace since the mid 1980's then the Jordan era. What a shitty pass-time...watching the NBA...especially regular season games.

watchn celtics is AWESOME baby

peace larry joe bird

How many games have the Leprechauns lost....Like 2 or something? Amazing run so far.

[KYPack]

You people that are stupidly crying for a "more aggressive" D Coordinator are gonna be disappointed. Even if McCarthy yields to the whiners and gets rid of Sanders, he's not going to get some half-wit who favors a scheme that McCarthy himself doesn't like--overdoing the damn blitzing, zone instead of man coverage, or whatever other idiocy some in here want to see.

Well Tex, I'll "pick on" you, cause I know you can take it.

We don't play man to man now. We play almost exclusively zone. A form of cover 2 as a matter of fact. I'll also "get" PB while I'm up. We play 95% a 4-3 under. Rarely see us in "over".

Our corners don't play man. They are playing press technique in a cover 2 zone. They get very little help out on that island from either the safties or the LB's, but it's a zone nonetheless.

When they are in coverage, they use man technique. It's virtually the same thing as man for the corners, but we don't play man to man defense. It's a cover two zone with the corners in press technique.

Posters get this wrong, announcers get this wrong, & goofballs that write articles for the Press Gazette & JSO get this wrong, but that's OK. This post is the true scoop. Tell Cris Collinworth, Tony Siragusa, and any other dipshit that tells you the Packers play man to man, that they don't , cause KY told you so.

The other thing that screws people up is the fact that we play a lot of match-up. Match-up is a zone coverage in which the player covers his zone until a player comes in coverage. When you are matched up, you cover that man for the duration of the play. In standard zone, you cover your patch and release the man when he leaves your area of responsibilty.

When you play standard zone and when you match-up are covered by rules. The main idea is, when the zone rotates and you are the last man, you now cover the man that comes into your zone all over the field.

It's real complicated. Some guys, whose first name is Brady and last name begins with a "P", never quite grasp the whole thing.

Tex, we don't have to fear junking our great man to man defense and some commie coming onto our team and installing an evil zone. Because we already got a zone.

Just like Obama, your worst nightmare is already here.

[MOBB DEEP]

Losing on purpose only happens in the NBA. Talk about a fall from grace since the mid 1980's then the Jordan era. What a shitty pass-time...watching the NBA...especially regular season games.

watchn celtics is AWESOME baby

peace larry joe bird

How many games have the Leprechauns lost....Like 2 or something? Amazing run so far.

23-2

tying best 25-game start with jordans bulls, willis reed, and wilts 76ers

[Gunakor]

You people that are stupidly crying for a "more aggressive" D Coordinator are gonna be disappointed. Even if McCarthy yields to the whiners and gets rid of Sanders, he's not going to get some half-wit who favors a scheme that McCarthy himself doesn't like--overdoing the damn blitzing, zone instead of man coverage, or whatever other idiocy some in here want to see.


There are some brilliant DC's that will come available Tex; we don't have one

Some of them favor the blitzing more than others; either way we are due for an upgrade there
The problem is not that we are too 'vanilla' it is that the players are not very disciplined in their assignments. They goof on assignments, they don't play with sound fundamentals, and they just don't appear to be a cohesive aggressive unit.

Simply put: the Packer defense does not appear to be well coached. Bates did a better job with less talent in an identical scheme.

Speaking of Bates, where is he now?

And I don't think he did it with less talent. He never had Charlie Peprah starting a game at SS, or had to move an OLB inside because the Pro Bowl alternate the previous year at MLB was lost for the season. He never had to start Montgomery at RDE because the guy who had 9.5 sacks at that position the year before fell off the map, and his replacemet was lost to IR early in the season.

Had we still been working with our starters, I'd agree with you. But, if we were still working with our starters, we have more than 5 wins at this point in the season too.

[Gunakor]

This is the Bears and the winless Lions -- imagine the embarassment of losing to an 0-15 club -- and people are talking about throwing the game? What is that?
I'd rather see GB win...especially since it comes down to 2 or three spots in the draft order.
I have no idea who TT will draft in R1; of course it will "BPA". For grins I'm going to throw out an idea: TT drafts a Safety.

I'll shake up the snow globe and predict TT spends a few more picks on OL & DL, and stuns PackerNation by signing a free agent TE to push the unspectacular duo of Humphrey/Finley for a roster spot.

Any chance he presses for Gonzo again now that there will be a new Chief in Kansas City?

[Freak Out]

Ok...you are the GM, on the clock and these four guys are there for you....who do you take?

DE/OLB, Brian Orakpo, Texas

OT, Andre Smith, Alabama (JR)

OT, Jason Smith, Baylor

DT, B. J. Raji, Boston College

You can assume we fired Sanders and switched to a 3-4 if you like. :lol:

Replace Nick?

LB Rey Maualuga, USC

[Partial]

You people that are stupidly crying for a "more aggressive" D Coordinator are gonna be disappointed. Even if McCarthy yields to the whiners and gets rid of Sanders, he's not going to get some half-wit who favors a scheme that McCarthy himself doesn't like--overdoing the damn blitzing, zone instead of man coverage, or whatever other idiocy some in here want to see.


There are some brilliant DC's that will come available Tex; we don't have one

Some of them favor the blitzing more than others; either way we are due for an upgrade there
The problem is not that we are too 'vanilla' it is that the players are not very disciplined in their assignments. They goof on assignments, they don't play with sound fundamentals, and they just don't appear to be a cohesive aggressive unit.

Simply put: the Packer defense does not appear to be well coached. Bates did a better job with less talent in an identical scheme.

Well, than Vanilla Bob is not teaching well enough and we're still do for an upgrade.

[Partial]

Rey will be the pick if he is there but I doubt he will be. He is as good as the San Fran MLB. Just a big nasty.

[BallHawk]

Rey will be the pick if he is there but I doubt he will be. He is as good as the San Fran MLB. Just a big nasty.

DL is of greater concern than the LBs.

Thus, Orakpo is the pick.

[Gunakor]

Rey will be the pick if he is there but I doubt he will be. He is as good as the San Fran MLB. Just a big nasty.

DL is of greater concern than the LBs.

Thus, Orakpo is the pick.

Agreed. Barnett coming back healthy next year will be a tremendous boost to this LB corps. There is no such saving grace for the DL next year, so that must be a primary concern during the offseason.

[LL2]

Rey will be the pick if he is there but I doubt he will be. He is as good as the San Fran MLB. Just a big nasty.

DL is of greater concern than the LBs.

Thus, Orakpo is the pick.

Next year they should start Chillar / Barnett / Hawk.

If Orakpo is a true stud and impact player then get him. It would be great to get Haynesworth too.

[Gunakor]

Rey will be the pick if he is there but I doubt he will be. He is as good as the San Fran MLB. Just a big nasty.

DL is of greater concern than the LBs.

Thus, Orakpo is the pick.

Next year they should start Chillar / Barnett / Hawk.

If Orakpo is a true stud and impact player then get him. It would be great to get Haynesworth too.

I would be pleased as punch if that were the way our LB corps looked next year. There's enough talent there to be one of the more dominanting LB corps in the entire league. Hopefully there will be a new DC in Green Bay next year that will allow them to be just that.

[Partial]

Rey will be the pick if he is there but I doubt he will be. He is as good as the San Fran MLB. Just a big nasty.

DL is of greater concern than the LBs.

Thus, Orakpo is the pick.

Depends who rates out as the better player. I haven't see much of this Orakpo, but I've seen a ton of Rey and he is a manimal.

[Fosco33]

It doesn't look like the Packers will move up from their 8th (tied) spot.

- Raiders (4W) play Bucs on the road - loss
- Browns (4W) play the Steelers on the road - loss
- Seahawks (4W) play the Cards on the road - possible loss
- Jags (5W) play the Ravens on the road - loss
- Packers (5W) play at home vs. winless Lions - likely win
- Niners (6W) play at home vs. the Skins - possible loss

If that plays true, the Packers could slip into a tie for 10th with the Niners. Also means the loss to the Bears didn't hurt/help the Pack in draft position (unless Niners, Bills, Chargers and Texans lose - in which case the Pack moved up a few spots and cracked the top 10).

If the Raiders, Browns, Seahawks, Jags somehow win and the Packers lose - they'd be in a tie for the 5th pick (5-7).

[woodbuck27]

If I'm looking at a losing season season and need a stud, I'm going to go ahead and lose both of those games. Movin' on up is worth a LOT at the top of round 1.

Jaysus Partial. Your not serious?

Recommend that to the 5 and 10 HC Mike McCarthy and you'll get a fist full of knuckles. It's always better to go out with a blaze of even a minor good report than in smoke man.

Your really intending some sort of humor Partial? :D

[woodbuck27]

By the way the Packers need the best DLineman they can land. A DE would be real sweet.

[Fosco33]

If the Niners can hold onto their 7 point lead, the Packers would pick 9th.

If they lose, it'd be either 9th or 10th.

Either way - a top 10 pick to GB.

[Lurker64]

I like Orakpo a lot. I don't like Maualuga in a 4-3 set. He's too aggressive, he'll get eaten alive on the play action, pump fakes, etc. He's a powerful, physical, talented player but he doesn't play with enough upstairs or enough discipline to really be worthy of a top 10 pick. He'll be great at ILB in a 3-4 team, but he doesn't fit well here. He's not even the best LB in this draft... Aaron Curry is absolutely a better pick than Maualuga.

Personally, I'm targetting Orakpo or Oher but if we really have to draft a LB, I want Curry.