Uhh, Coach?

[Fritz]

Ted Thompson has been a lightning rod in this organization, no doubt. Criticism (and sometimes praise) tends to flow his way, including criticism and praise of his coaching choice.

However, I'd like to forward the notion here that this long string of ignomonious defeats at the hands of mostly mediocre teams falls primarily upon the shoulders of Mr. Mike McCarthy. Yes, there have been injuries. But other teams, like the Jags, have injuries too. Yet in the past five or six games, MM has gone into a few of these games with what would seem more talent than the other side - yet the Packers have lost and lost and lost again.

They look befuddled. Some of the losing does fall to a lack of talent, to be sure. There is a lack of defensive line pressure. Poppinga seems to slow to be an effective starter. And you can go on. However, the Packers are now failing against teams that they appear to have more talent than.

This is coaching. The ZBS and the finesse approach of this offesne seems to fail this team at critical times. That's a coaching decision, to run the schemes that are run. The defense is as soft as butter, and that's a coaching issue. Sanders seems incapable of getting the defense to play together for any stretch of time.

So, how about it, coach? What do you need to do this offseason to turn this around, so that at least your team is winning the games in which it has more talent - whether that's twelve games or eight games?

[sheepshead]

I am right with you on this one. We loose 6 games by fours points or less? That's not the general managers fault. He's done his job. I see a lack of execution. Wacky play calling. (every teams fan base bitches about that however) and mistakes. Penalties, unable to run plays properly. We saw guys out of place in week 16?? Come on. MM isnt going anywhere, but there needs to be a major overhaul and MM should share with us his outline for a new direction and level of commitment along these lines.

[Deputy Nutz]

The coaching all the way around has been lackluster this season. the depth of talent outside the receiving core and in the secondary is frightful.

The legend goes that it takes a drafted player 3 to 4 years before potential is reached. Well I feel like since Thompson hides away during free agency we are left at many positions without capable players due to young players still learning the game at an NFL level. Free agency wasn't great the last two years, but this upcoming year there are two big name free agent defensive linemen that are hopefully going to hit the market in Haynesworth and Peppers. To me Peppers is a no brainer, if he is on the market you give him what he wants to come to Green Bay.


If my counting is correct, Thompson is now .500 as a GM.

[sheepshead]

This crap is a good example:


Packers: Frustrations boil over into conflicts
By JASON WILDE
608-252-6176
jwilde@madison.com
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — As disappointing as the Green Bay Packers have been this season, they generally kept their composure and didn't let the strain of failing to live up to expectations show on the field.

Until Sunday's 20-16 loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars, that is.

It began with quarterback Aaron Rodgers voicing his displeasure with rookie tight end Jermichael Finley after a botched third-and-goal play shortly before halftime forced the Packers to settle for a field goal.


• Same-old, same-old for Packers


That was only a preview, though, of the heated on-field exchange between cornerback Al Harris and linebacker Brady Poppinga early in the second half.

Packers coach Mike McCarthy blamed the infighting on "communication" breakdowns, but he wouldn't go into specifics of what caused the problems despite being asked repeatedly about the incidents.

"The communication wasn't as clean as it needed to be and it affected some of our performance," McCarthy said.

The Poppinga-Harris confrontation was the worst. With 11:15 left in the third quarter, Jaguars wide receiver Reggie Williams was left uncovered in the left slot. Harris angrily motioned at Poppinga to cover Williams, and after David Garrard's 36-yard completion to Dennis Northcutt went to the opposite side of the field, Harris ran up to Poppinga and got in his face.

After the game, Harris would only say it was an "animated discussion," while Poppinga tried to downplay the incident.

"The bottom line is we're both competitors. Stuff like that is going to happen on a team, especially two guys who want to win," said Poppinga, refusing to say who was supposed to cover Williams. "Sometimes you have a little conflict. To say that conflict is a bad thing is not true.

"I don't have hard feelings against him and he doesn't have hard feelings against me. ... How it looked is how it looked. But how it really went down is how it really went down. You can make it out as big as you want it to be, but it's not as bad as it looks."

It was bad enough that defensive coordinator Bob Sanders brought the entire defense together on the sideline after the Jaguars punted — "Just basically the same speech they give us, 'Stay together, stay focused, we're going to come out of this,'" Poppinga said — to restore order.

"We just sat 'em down, tried to make sure everybody's on the same page," Sanders said. "In the heat of the moment, everybody's working hard to do the right thing. It's a lot of competitive guys."

The Rodgers-Finley disagreement came when Finley looked confused on a third-and-goal play from the 5-yard line following a Jacksonville timeout. He lined up first on one side of the formation, then scurried to the other before the snap, and Rodgers was clearly displeased with him after a shovel pass to Donald Lee gained nothing.

Rodgers said it was "just miscommunication with the formation" on a play that resulted in a touchdown earlier this season against Atlanta.

Like Rodgers, Finley called it "just miscommunication with the play-call," then intimated it was Rodgers' fault.

"It wasn't on me at all," Finley said. "But I went with it."

McCarthy said such a mistake was inexcusable because of the Jaguars' timeout that preceded it, but wouldn't say who was in the wrong.

"We should be set and ready to go there," said McCarthy, who went onto the field after Mason Crosby's field goal to talk to Finley before assistant special teams coach Shawn Slocum yanked Finley from the kickoff coverage unit. "I don't want to get into (whose fault it was). It's all of our faults. We should not have problems lining up after a timeout. That's what happened."

[texaspackerbacker]

I tend to agree, McCarthy has been well below his coaching level of a year ago.

I've said many times, losing five, now six games by 4 or less points is mainly a result of bad luck. It also, however, is a result of poor play calling--way too cautious, IMO, as well as crucial mistakes--the plethora of penalties, some of which may have been bad calls, but most of which have just been screwups, and other mistakes--route running, missed coverages, etc.

I'm generally against paying big money for free agents, but at this point, Peppers looks really good, and Haynesworth almost as good. Drafting D Linemen is a shot in the dark at best--Jamal Reynolds, Harrell, etc. I really doubt the free agent thing will happen, though, and if the team stays healthy next season, we could do extremely well even without free agent help.

[hoosier]

I agree that the Packers struggles this year raise some troubling questions about the coaching. Both McCarthy and some of the position coaches seem to be having problems getting their players prepared and keeping them disciplined. The combination of frequent penalties and soft defense against the run is especially disturbing (a highly penalized defense that plays physically at every level would be a different matter, but with the exception of Al Harris and Woodson that's not the case here).

But it's also important to keep in mind that this is a young team. By now it's pretty clear that last year they overperformed, and their success was based on good luck in the early part of the season against Philly and SD, and they used those fortunate wins to build confidence and gain momentum through the middle of the season and down the stretch. When they hit the occasional bump in the road (being dominated at Dallas) they were able to bounce back the next week. This year they're not bouncing back. On the contrary, they have regressed after an impressive start, and have been unable to build on whatever minor success they've had.

I take two points from this. First, that we shouldn't underestimate the importance of confidence. Look at the difference between the Packers and Vikings: in terms of talent they're very similar, and I wouldn't dream of swapping McCarthy for Chilly. At the halfway point the two teams were more or less in the same position. But now the Vikings have been able to build on successes and gain momentum whereas the Packers seem to have had their confidence destroyed. The other point is that the difference bewteen a soft or lucky 13-3 and an unlucking, underperforming 5-11 in today's NFL just isn't very great. I like what McCarthy was able to do last year, and will give him another season before I start to seriously question his judgment.

[cpk1994]

Like Rodgers, Finley called it "just miscommunication with the play-call," then intimated it was Rodgers' fault.

"It wasn't on me at all," Finley said. "But I went with it."

Looks like someone doesn't want to stay employed anymore. Just when you thought this guy could act like a bigger idiot.

[channtheman]

Like Rodgers, Finley called it "just miscommunication with the play-call," then intimated it was Rodgers' fault.

"It wasn't on me at all," Finley said. "But I went with it."

Looks like someone doesn't want to stay employed anymore. Just when you thought this guy could act like a bigger idiot.

I was going to ask, is Finley the guy that was having the problems earlier too? Like he thought he was entitled to get the ball thrown to him. He really sounds like a jackass and I don't get how if he lined up wrong it is not his fault.

[cpk1994]

Like Rodgers, Finley called it "just miscommunication with the play-call," then intimated it was Rodgers' fault.

"It wasn't on me at all," Finley said. "But I went with it."

Looks like someone doesn't want to stay employed anymore. Just when you thought this guy could act like a bigger idiot.

I was going to ask, is Finley the guy that was having the problems earlier too? Like he thought he was entitled to get the ball thrown to him. He really sounds like a jackass and I don't get how if he lined up wrong it is not his fault.Yes, this is the same jackass.

[Partial]

Jermichael Finley has thrown his QB under the bus twice this year... is this guy ever going to get a clue?

[sheepshead]

Like Rodgers, Finley called it "just miscommunication with the play-call," then intimated it was Rodgers' fault.

"It wasn't on me at all," Finley said. "But I went with it."

Looks like someone doesn't want to stay employed anymore. Just when you thought this guy could act like a bigger idiot.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR4PGt9oOto

[PackerBlues]

Seems like M3 finds himself in a "4'th and short yardage" situation late in the 4'th quarter quite often. The last two games in that situation, it seemed to me that M3 was thinking "OH F@#k!!".

I dunno, but it seems like everytime he gets in that situation with the game on the line, he chokes. Nothing ever seems to go right. It's like every game they lose, you can go back to that one single 4'th down play call and say "if only M3 had played that differently......"

Look at the number of O-line penalties all year (if anyone knows where to find penalty stats for the season.....I couldn't find it). That alone points to poor coaching.

Maybe next year...... :roll:

[gbgary]

i loved the deer in the headlights :shock: look MM had, at the end of the game, in the previous two losses.

[denverYooper]

Like Rodgers, Finley called it "just miscommunication with the play-call," then intimated it was Rodgers' fault.

"It wasn't on me at all," Finley said. "But I went with it."

Looks like someone doesn't want to stay employed anymore. Just when you thought this guy could act like a bigger idiot.

I saw that too and wondered if he was baited into that quote because of his earlier comments. There was blood in the water. Not that that excuses him -- it was still a really dumbass thing to say.

[MateoInMex]

This crap is a good example:


Packers: Frustrations boil over into conflicts
By JASON WILDE
608-252-6176
jwilde@madison.com
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — As disappointing as the Green Bay Packers have been this season, they generally kept their composure and didn't let the strain of failing to live up to expectations show on the field.

Until Sunday's 20-16 loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars, that is.

It began with quarterback Aaron Rodgers voicing his displeasure with rookie tight end Jermichael Finley after a botched third-and-goal play shortly before halftime forced the Packers to settle for a field goal.


• Same-old, same-old for Packers


That was only a preview, though, of the heated on-field exchange between cornerback Al Harris and linebacker Brady Poppinga early in the second half.

Packers coach Mike McCarthy blamed the infighting on "communication" breakdowns, but he wouldn't go into specifics of what caused the problems despite being asked repeatedly about the incidents.

"The communication wasn't as clean as it needed to be and it affected some of our performance," McCarthy said.

The Poppinga-Harris confrontation was the worst. With 11:15 left in the third quarter, Jaguars wide receiver Reggie Williams was left uncovered in the left slot. Harris angrily motioned at Poppinga to cover Williams, and after David Garrard's 36-yard completion to Dennis Northcutt went to the opposite side of the field, Harris ran up to Poppinga and got in his face.

After the game, Harris would only say it was an "animated discussion," while Poppinga tried to downplay the incident.

"The bottom line is we're both competitors. Stuff like that is going to happen on a team, especially two guys who want to win," said Poppinga, refusing to say who was supposed to cover Williams. "Sometimes you have a little conflict. To say that conflict is a bad thing is not true.

"I don't have hard feelings against him and he doesn't have hard feelings against me. ... How it looked is how it looked. But how it really went down is how it really went down. You can make it out as big as you want it to be, but it's not as bad as it looks."

It was bad enough that defensive coordinator Bob Sanders brought the entire defense together on the sideline after the Jaguars punted — "Just basically the same speech they give us, 'Stay together, stay focused, we're going to come out of this,'" Poppinga said — to restore order.

"We just sat 'em down, tried to make sure everybody's on the same page," Sanders said. "In the heat of the moment, everybody's working hard to do the right thing. It's a lot of competitive guys."

The Rodgers-Finley disagreement came when Finley looked confused on a third-and-goal play from the 5-yard line following a Jacksonville timeout. He lined up first on one side of the formation, then scurried to the other before the snap, and Rodgers was clearly displeased with him after a shovel pass to Donald Lee gained nothing.

Rodgers said it was "just miscommunication with the formation" on a play that resulted in a touchdown earlier this season against Atlanta.

Like Rodgers, Finley called it "just miscommunication with the play-call," then intimated it was Rodgers' fault.

"It wasn't on me at all," Finley said. "But I went with it."

McCarthy said such a mistake was inexcusable because of the Jaguars' timeout that preceded it, but wouldn't say who was in the wrong.

"We should be set and ready to go there," said McCarthy, who went onto the field after Mason Crosby's field goal to talk to Finley before assistant special teams coach Shawn Slocum yanked Finley from the kickoff coverage unit. "I don't want to get into (whose fault it was). It's all of our faults. We should not have problems lining up after a timeout. That's what happened."

That statement eerily reminds of Mike Charmin. This year can't get over with fast enough. And with each passing loss this season, we're finding out more and more things are flawed with the GB Packers....I'll fall on to my bean-bag comfiness of pointing the finger at TT, just as much as I'll point the finger at Mike McCarthy, the offensive line, defensive line, Mike Stock, and Bob Sanders.

30-32 under GM Ted Thompson. I guess we can wish that he looks more at Free Agency this offseason, but 4 years of treating FA like it's the ugliest stripper at the club is a good sign TT will continue to ignore it. Next season is a make or break year for Ol' Teddy and the coaching staff. I'm anxious to see how they're going to adjust from THE TOP--------DOWN..because that's where it starts...It doesn't start on the field.

[cpk1994]

This crap is a good example:


Packers: Frustrations boil over into conflicts
By JASON WILDE
608-252-6176
jwilde@madison.com
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — As disappointing as the Green Bay Packers have been this season, they generally kept their composure and didn't let the strain of failing to live up to expectations show on the field.

Until Sunday's 20-16 loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars, that is.

It began with quarterback Aaron Rodgers voicing his displeasure with rookie tight end Jermichael Finley after a botched third-and-goal play shortly before halftime forced the Packers to settle for a field goal.


• Same-old, same-old for Packers


That was only a preview, though, of the heated on-field exchange between cornerback Al Harris and linebacker Brady Poppinga early in the second half.

Packers coach Mike McCarthy blamed the infighting on "communication" breakdowns, but he wouldn't go into specifics of what caused the problems despite being asked repeatedly about the incidents.

"The communication wasn't as clean as it needed to be and it affected some of our performance," McCarthy said.

The Poppinga-Harris confrontation was the worst. With 11:15 left in the third quarter, Jaguars wide receiver Reggie Williams was left uncovered in the left slot. Harris angrily motioned at Poppinga to cover Williams, and after David Garrard's 36-yard completion to Dennis Northcutt went to the opposite side of the field, Harris ran up to Poppinga and got in his face.

After the game, Harris would only say it was an "animated discussion," while Poppinga tried to downplay the incident.

"The bottom line is we're both competitors. Stuff like that is going to happen on a team, especially two guys who want to win," said Poppinga, refusing to say who was supposed to cover Williams. "Sometimes you have a little conflict. To say that conflict is a bad thing is not true.

"I don't have hard feelings against him and he doesn't have hard feelings against me. ... How it looked is how it looked. But how it really went down is how it really went down. You can make it out as big as you want it to be, but it's not as bad as it looks."

It was bad enough that defensive coordinator Bob Sanders brought the entire defense together on the sideline after the Jaguars punted — "Just basically the same speech they give us, 'Stay together, stay focused, we're going to come out of this,'" Poppinga said — to restore order.

"We just sat 'em down, tried to make sure everybody's on the same page," Sanders said. "In the heat of the moment, everybody's working hard to do the right thing. It's a lot of competitive guys."

The Rodgers-Finley disagreement came when Finley looked confused on a third-and-goal play from the 5-yard line following a Jacksonville timeout. He lined up first on one side of the formation, then scurried to the other before the snap, and Rodgers was clearly displeased with him after a shovel pass to Donald Lee gained nothing.

Rodgers said it was "just miscommunication with the formation" on a play that resulted in a touchdown earlier this season against Atlanta.

Like Rodgers, Finley called it "just miscommunication with the play-call," then intimated it was Rodgers' fault.

"It wasn't on me at all," Finley said. "But I went with it."

McCarthy said such a mistake was inexcusable because of the Jaguars' timeout that preceded it, but wouldn't say who was in the wrong.

"We should be set and ready to go there," said McCarthy, who went onto the field after Mason Crosby's field goal to talk to Finley before assistant special teams coach Shawn Slocum yanked Finley from the kickoff coverage unit. "I don't want to get into (whose fault it was). It's all of our faults. We should not have problems lining up after a timeout. That's what happened."

That statement eerily reminds of Mike Charmin. This year can't get over with fast enough. And with each passing loss this season, we're finding out more and more things are flawed with the GB Packers....I'll fall on to my bean-bag comfiness of pointing the finger at TT, just as much as I'll point the finger at Mike McCarthy, the offensive line, defensive line, Mike Stock, and Bob Sanders.

30-32 under GM Ted Thompson. I guess we can wish that he looks more at Free Agency this offseason, but 4 years of treating FA like it's the ugliest stripper at the club is a good sign TT will continue to ignore it. Next season is a make or break year for Ol' Teddy and the coaching staff. I'm anxious to see how they're going to adjust from THE TOP--------DOWN..because that's where it starts...It doesn't start on the field.Yeah, becuase signing Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett while making big plays for Lavar Arrington and Adam Vinieri is ignoring FA. :roll: The argument that TT ignores FA has always and will always be bullshit.

[PackerBlues]

Yeah, becuase signing Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett while making big plays for Lavar Arrington and Adam Vinieri is ignoring FA. :roll: The argument that TT ignores FA has always and will always be bullshit.


Nobody else wanted Woodson because of his injury history, so there was no bidding war there.

Ryan Pickett was not a big name free agent, how many other teams even looked at him?

As far as Arrington and "Adam Vinieri", they are not on the Packers roster, are they? :roll:

[cpk1994]

Yeah, becuase signing Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett while making big plays for Lavar Arrington and Adam Vinieri is ignoring FA. :roll: The argument that TT ignores FA has always and will always be bullshit.


Nobody else wanted Woodson because of his injury history, so there was no bidding war there.

Ryan Pickett was not a big name free agent, how many other teams even looked at him?

As far as Arrington and "Adam Vinieri", they are not on the Packers roster, are they? :roll:But TT made offers for both and had the largest offer on the table for Viniteri, didn't he? :roll:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Nobody else wanted Woodson because of his injury history, so there was no bidding war there.

There were a couple of teams that wanted him (Tampa Bay was one, for sure), but they wanted to move him to safety. The Packers paid good money for Woodson, so it wasn't like they picked him up off the scrap heap.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ryan Pickett was not a big name free agent, how many other teams even looked at him?

Wrong on this one also. He signed for good money, was a well-known name (former 1st round pick), and had other offers. Green Bay outbid Buffalo and St. Louis for Pickett.

[bobblehead]

As far as Arrington and "Adam Vinieri", they are not on the Packers roster, are they? :roll:

That has to be a top ten dumbest post ever. What did you want TT to do, force them to sign the highest offer at gunpoint. Moron.

[Fritz]

The direction this thread has taken confirms my point - TT always seems to end up being the lightning rod for this organization. My point is that as a result of this, there has been less discussion of MM's culpability than I think is called for.

I think the guy seems to have at least - at least - 8-8 talent. At least. And he's not going to get the team to perform to its talent level. This, to me, is a coaching problem, and I wonder what went wrong from the standpoint of looking at coaching. Where did MM go wrong? Last year was a wonder year, and the Pack was 2 - 0 at the start of the season. Sure, there were injuries, but this team has not played up to its potential, even counting for the injuries.

[hoosier]

The direction this thread has taken confirms my point - TT always seems to end up being the lightning rod for this organization. My point is that as a result of this, there has been less discussion of MM's culpability than I think is called for.

I think the guy seems to have at least - at least - 8-8 talent. At least. And he's not going to get the team to perform to its talent level. This, to me, is a coaching problem, and I wonder what went wrong from the standpoint of looking at coaching. Where did MM go wrong? Last year was a wonder year, and the Pack was 2 - 0 at the start of the season. Sure, there were injuries, but this team has not played up to its potential, even counting for the injuries.

You seem to be assuming that this year is the yardstick and last year was a fluke. What if this year and last year are both aberrations and the truth is somewhere in between the two? In that case I think there are still troubling signs about MM and his staff, most of which come down to failure of fundamentals: the defense regularly collapsing at the end of games, the recent inability to convert short yardage situations. But if the Packers are really something like 8-8 on the talent spectrum (which I tend to agree with), then shouldn't MM also get credit for last year's overperforming team?

[Fritz]

No, hoosier, I don't mean to imply that. What I mean is that it's possible both were aberrations, in a sense, but that when you have 8 - 8 talent and you don't win 8, the coaching ought to be questioned. Instead, TT seems to attract the vast majority of attention, particularly the negative. I know, too, the guy hired MM, but I do think MM has really not done a good job this year. Last year, he did a fine job - the team seemed to be on its toes. This year, the continual dumb mistakes are just piling up.

[cpk1994]

No, hoosier, I don't mean to imply that. What I mean is that it's possible both were aberrations, in a sense, but that when you have 8 - 8 talent and you don't win 8, the coaching ought to be questioned. Instead, TT seems to attract the vast majority of attention, particularly the negative. I know, too, the guy hired MM, but I do think MM has really not done a good job this year. Last year, he did a fine job - the team seemed to be on its toes. This year, the continual dumb mistakes are just piling up.I agree it should be questioned. But the only reason TT is getting the attention is becuase of Favre. It's sad that some just can't let the fact that Favre is gone go. The focus should be on McCarthy and the coaching staff now, not TT yet.

[PackerBlues]

That has to be a top ten dumbest post ever. What did you want TT to do, force them to sign the highest offer at gunpoint. Moron.

First off, as far as stupidity goes.....you are one to talk. Moron.

Secondly, for you to even suggest that Thompson would ever be the GM to make the highest offer to any free agent, just goes to prove who is being stupid here. :roll:

With approx. 25 million in cap room before Favre left, and approx. 35 million in cap room after Favre left, Thompson could have easily have made the high offer to any FA available. Fact is, he didn't.(probably never will.)

Were any of the available FA's worth it? Whole different argument.

[Bossman641]

That has to be a top ten dumbest post ever. What did you want TT to do, force them to sign the highest offer at gunpoint. Moron.

First off, as far as stupidity goes.....you are one to talk. Moron.

Secondly, for you to even suggest that Thompson would ever be the GM to make the highest offer to any free agent, just goes to prove who is being stupid here. :roll:

With approx. 25 million in cap room before Favre left, and approx. 35 million in cap room after Favre left, Thompson could have easily have made the high offer to any FA available. Fact is, he didn't.(probably never will.)

Were any of the available FA's worth it? Whole different argument.

This is all based on memory, so I could be wrong.

Didn't TT have the highest offer for Pickett? Didn't he have the highest offer for Arrington but he wanted the chance to play against the Redskins? Didn't he have the highest offer for Vinaetierri? I believe he also had the highest offer for Justin Griffith but he wanted to play in warm Oakland instead.

The point remains. Even if TT didn't have the highest offer for all of them he had at least had respectable offers on the table.

[Patler]

That has to be a top ten dumbest post ever. What did you want TT to do, force them to sign the highest offer at gunpoint. Moron.

First off, as far as stupidity goes.....you are one to talk. Moron.

Secondly, for you to even suggest that Thompson would ever be the GM to make the highest offer to any free agent, just goes to prove who is being stupid here. :roll:

With approx. 25 million in cap room before Favre left, and approx. 35 million in cap room after Favre left, Thompson could have easily have made the high offer to any FA available. Fact is, he didn't.(probably never will.)

Were any of the available FA's worth it? Whole different argument.

It has been reported by numerous sources that GB had made the highest offer to Arrington, but he decided he wanted to stay in the division to play his former team twice each year. It was also reported from several sources that Vinieteri signed with Indy in spite of a higher offer from GB.

It would be foolish for a GM to get the reputation with agents of being willing to bid against himself. If you have the highest offer on the table, and the player choses to go somewhere else, so be it.

[Freak Out]

Vinieteri wanted to kick indoors if I remember correctly that's why he went with the Indy offer.

[sharpe1027]

This is all based on memory, so I could be wrong.

Didn't TT have the highest offer for Pickett? Didn't he have the highest offer for Arrington but he wanted the chance to play against the Redskins? Didn't he have the highest offer for Vinaetierri? I believe he also had the highest offer for Justin Griffith but he wanted to play in warm Oakland instead.

The point remains. Even if TT didn't have the highest offer for all of them he had at least had respectable offers on the table.

Woodson and Chillar...not to mention all the players he resigned so that they never hit free agency. He is not adverse to free agency, end of story. Have there been more active GMs in free agency? Yes. I bet TT is still above average in his use of free agency. I would also bet that many GMs aren't so happy with their free agency pickups.

I can understand people not being happy with TT. However, it seems far too many of people are basing their displeasure on emotions and personal dislike of the man and not on a rationale analysis of what he has done.

[sheepshead]

I wish this was from our coach rather than former Packer Jim Zorn:

“It hurts. I feel like the worst coach in America. [The players] risk a lot. They put out tremendous effort, tremendous emotion to go out and play. We can win some of these games. I have a hard time looking at the talent and just saying that’s [the problem] and moving on … I have to look at myself. It’s all about me. I need to check my plan of attack and my staff, we need to reevaluate. ”

[hoosier]

No, hoosier, I don't mean to imply that. What I mean is that it's possible both were aberrations, in a sense, but that when you have 8 - 8 talent and you don't win 8, the coaching ought to be questioned. Instead, TT seems to attract the vast majority of attention, particularly the negative. I know, too, the guy hired MM, but I do think MM has really not done a good job this year. Last year, he did a fine job - the team seemed to be on its toes. This year, the continual dumb mistakes are just piling up.

I get it now. Thought you were saying something different. Absolutely agree that the ones who should be getting scrutiny now are McCarthy and his staff. TT seems to have done an adequate job, if not better than adequate, in assembling a team of talented and high-character players. The true sign of a well coached team, IMO, is one that comes together and plays even better when a star player goes down. We saw that last two years with the Giants and to a certain degree with New England post-Brady.

[Brohm]

"The Poppinga-Harris confrontation was the worst. With 11:15 left in the third quarter, Jaguars wide receiver Reggie Williams was left uncovered in the left slot. Harris angrily motioned at Poppinga to cover Williams, and after David Garrard's 36-yard completion to Dennis Northcutt went to the opposite side of the field, Harris ran up to Poppinga and got in his face."

As much as Al is a competitor, Popps on a WR screams WTF all over the place. He has enough trouble with TE's and FB's out of the backfield :shock:

Hello DC, come in DC....

[Gunakor]

Like Rodgers, Finley called it "just miscommunication with the play-call," then intimated it was Rodgers' fault.

"It wasn't on me at all," Finley said. "But I went with it."

Looks like someone doesn't want to stay employed anymore. Just when you thought this guy could act like a bigger idiot.

I was going to ask, is Finley the guy that was having the problems earlier too? Like he thought he was entitled to get the ball thrown to him. He really sounds like a jackass and I don't get how if he lined up wrong it is not his fault.

"I don't do back shoulder"

Yep, same guy.

If I'm going to blast TT for any of his draft picks, it's this one. I don't think he'll be around a whole lot longer unless he really has a change of attitude before minicamp next year.

[Gunakor]

Yeah, becuase signing Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett while making big plays for Lavar Arrington and Adam Vinieri is ignoring FA. :roll: The argument that TT ignores FA has always and will always be bullshit.


Nobody else wanted Woodson because of his injury history, so there was no bidding war there.

Ryan Pickett was not a big name free agent, how many other teams even looked at him?

As far as Arrington and "Adam Vinieri", they are not on the Packers roster, are they? :roll:

Woodson was worth it, was he not? Why does FA only count when there is a bidding war? Why do you have to spend more money than another team offers in order to justify a good FA selection?

If anything TT is a good accountant, which may come in handy when there is no salary cap or revenue sharing...

[PackerBlues]

If being the highest bidder on a FA is not the problem, then what is? Does Thompson just not have the ability to convince FA's that GB is the place to play?

Does anyone believe that it will be any easier for him to convince FA's to come to GB after this season?

[Bossman641]

If being the highest bidder on a FA is not the problem, then what is? Does Thompson just not have the ability to convince FA's that GB is the place to play?

Does anyone believe that it will be any easier for him to convince FA's to come to GB after this season?

GB isn't flashy, it isn't warm, and there's not much to do. It is a good place for older guys with veterans or younger guys who aren't into all the glam or spotlight.

I see you are changing your argument now though. First you said TT would never make the high offer to a FA. You got called out on that. Now you say it is TT's fault for not making GB an appealing enough place to play.

Not much TT can do about guys who would rather play in a dome (Adam V.), against their former team (Arrington), or in a warm climate (Justin Griffith)

[Patler]

If being the highest bidder on a FA is not the problem, then what is? Does Thompson just not have the ability to convince FA's that GB is the place to play?

Does anyone believe that it will be any easier for him to convince FA's to come to GB after this season?

In some ways, yes maybe it will be easier.

For many years Favre was a draw for free agents. But, as he got older and made it very clear that he had no idea if he would return or not in the next season, let alone several in the future, he may actually have become a negative factor. With Rodgers an uncertainty, FAs may not have known what they would be getting into. At least now the team has a core of young players with some potential at many key positions, including QB. The team may have had a down year, but it seems to have some substance to it.

[Pugger]

[quote=bobblehead]



With approx. 25 million in cap room before Favre left, and approx. 35 million in cap room after Favre left, Thompson could have easily have made the high offer to any FA available. Fact is, he didn't.(probably never will.)

Were any of the available FA's worth it? Whole different argument.

Wasn't the FA signing time over after BF left? But before we run TT out of town let's see what he does this coming offseason.

TT did mess up with some of his moves - in particular the D line - but I would put the blame for a lot of our problems on coaching. It is unconscionable to be making the mistakes these guys are STILL making at this point in the season! :evil: Is it MM or his assistants - O line, ST and DC in particular - the problem? Do these gentlemen have difficulty getting thru to their charges and have them ready to perform at a high level on Sundays? :?:

[PackerBlues]

If being the highest bidder on a FA is not the problem, then what is? Does Thompson just not have the ability to convince FA's that GB is the place to play?

Does anyone believe that it will be any easier for him to convince FA's to come to GB after this season?

GB isn't flashy, it isn't warm, and there's not much to do. It is a good place for older guys with veterans or younger guys who aren't into all the glam or spotlight.

I see you are changing your argument now though. First you said TT would never make the high offer to a FA. You got called out on that. Now you say it is TT's fault for not making GB an appealing enough place to play.

Not much TT can do about guys who would rather play in a dome (Adam V.), against their former team (Arrington), or in a warm climate (Justin Griffith)
Not really changing my argument, just not beating a dead horse. :beat:

(besides, if Patler says Thompson made the highest offer, I'm not going to argue. Simply put, Patler has earned my respect many times over, most others here have not. :taunt: )

[sharpe1027]

Not really changing my argument, just not beating a dead horse. :beat:

(besides, if Patler says Thompson made the highest offer, I'm not going to argue. Simply put, Patler has earned my respect many times over, most others here have not. :taunt: )

How many FAs do you expect a GM to sign a year? Is there a quota? How many do most GMs sign per year? I've never seen any hard numbers showing that TT is even less than average in his use of free agency?

Either way, you can't argue with the results. Our best DT and a candidate for defensive MVP are both TT free agents. Not to mention our best coverage LB. I'm guessing that ranks pretty well against other GMs.

[Spaulding]

Fritz, good call on this thread. It's something that's been crossing my mind during this entire penalty driven, poor execution excuse of a season.

TT is definitely accountable to some level given he hired McCarthy but I strongly believe his drafts have put enough talent in the cupboard to field a pretty good team.

McCarthy's performance this season has been up and down but it seems that this team continues to lack fundamentals and focus.

Agree with the statements the team overachieved last year. Just as Brett stated in multiple post game interviews, the team was very talented but did he ever expect they'd be that successful - no.

Chips fell our way in close games, this year not quite. Injuries obviously play a part but coaches overcome that. If you use the Patriots, Colts or the Giants for example. good coaching overcomes that.

All of this reminds me of how badly he got out coached against the Jets and Patriots two years ago.

[Gunakor]

TT is definitely accountable to some level given he hired McCarthy...

McCarthy has had one season well above .500, one season right at .500, and one slightly below .500. If TT is accountable for MM's failures this season, then he should be held accountable for MM's successes last season as well.

I guess the question here is this - Who Is Mike McCarthy? The guy is all over the board, both in terms of success and consistency. He might be a very good coach who is having a down year, or he might be a very bad coach that got extremely lucky last year. I don't know the answer to that one, and I doubt anyone else including TT does for certain either. But I can't fault a guy for taking a chance on a rookie HC who in his second season took his team to the NFC Championship Game, even if his 3rd season is laced with failure.

[Bossman641]

TT is definitely accountable to some level given he hired McCarthy...

McCarthy has had one season well above .500, one season right at .500, and one slightly below .500. If TT is accountable for MM's failures this season, then he should be held accountable for MM's successes last season as well.

I guess the question here is this - Who Is Mike McCarthy? The guy is all over the board, both in terms of success and consistency. He might be a very good coach who is having a down year, or he might be a very bad coach that got extremely lucky last year. I don't know the answer to that one, and I doubt anyone else including TT does for certain either. But I can't fault a guy for taking a chance on a rookie HC who in his second season took his team to the NFC Championship Game, even if his 3rd season is laced with failure.

This is my main question too. The team doesn't really have anything they can hang their hat on offensively. MM talks about wanting to be a power team with the emphasis on the run and grinding out yards in cold-weather and then he abandons the run way too easily IMO.

Wanted to run the zone, and then has moved to a hybrid zone-power scheme.

I really don't know anymore. I feel like the offense has lost its identity. I'm not even sure what I would consider the base set anymore, as we must use more formations then anybody in the league.

I'd like to see a few trick plays added to the playbook. With Sherman we'd get WR reverses, Green passing the ball on tosses. I think MM needs to add a little bit of that to the playbook. Have we ran one trick play this year? Somebody please remind me. I'd also like to see more quick tosses to the WR's. Jennings and Driver should be able to get 5+ yards everytime that way.

[cheesner]

MM I believe is a good coach. He has, though, inferior defensive assistants. MM has made some good calls at times and he has made some bad decisions. I see general improvement and think that he can still suceed as the coach. On defense, I see a lot of talent and very little success. They play some games very well (at least most of the game) but a couple of breakdowns and the game is lost. They play inconsistent, without confidence and make mistakes. These are all coaching issues - and hopefully, the entire defense can be improved with a change of the defensive coordinator.