FAT Williams out 2-6 weeks

[POLISHHAWK]

Well, there goes 2 wins for the Vikes....
Facing 2 of the top Running teams coming up is really gone hurt with only 1/2 a wall.

[denverYooper]

"Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." ~Morpheus

[channtheman]

And hopefully a suspension to open the season next year adds 4 more weeks.

[Patler]

Well, there goes 2 wins for the Vikes....
Facing 2 of the top Running teams coming up is really gone hurt with only 1/2 a wall.

I'm not doubting you, just wondered where you saw it? What injury did Williams have?

Anything on Haynesworth for TN? It was said that he injured his knee on one of the last plays of his game?

[denverYooper]

Well, there goes 2 wins for the Vikes....
Facing 2 of the top Running teams coming up is really gone hurt with only 1/2 a wall.

I'm not doubting you, just wondered where you saw it? What injury did Williams have?

Anything on Haynesworth for TN? It was said that he injured his knee on one of the last plays of his game?

Haynesworth has a sprained MCL (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3771600) and is out until the playoffs.

[channtheman]

Well, there goes 2 wins for the Vikes....
Facing 2 of the top Running teams coming up is really gone hurt with only 1/2 a wall.

I'm not doubting you, just wondered where you saw it? What injury did Williams have?

Anything on Haynesworth for TN? It was said that he injured his knee on one of the last plays of his game?

I think Williams had a forearm injury or something to that effect.

EDIT: I just checked and it said it was a broken shoulder.

[red]

williams broke his scapula

which has to be tough to do while playing football, he must have taken a helmet right to it

[Rastak]

Pat is much more replaceable than Kevin. Kevin Williams cannot be replaced. They currently spell Pat Williams quite a bit during the game and Fred Evans has played pretty well. There is a drop off though so it does sting a bit. Like I say, if Kevin went down, the drop off is huge.

[RashanGary]

Pat is much more replaceable than Kevin. Kevin Williams cannot be replaced. They currently spell Pat Williams quite a bit during the game and Fred Evans has played pretty well. There is a drop off though so it does sting a bit. Like I say, if Kevin went down, the drop off is huge.


Depth is very very important. Without Pat, Kevin will have to play more. Evans will have to play more. Their backups will have to play more. It will hurt. Make no mistake about it. I think it's going to hurt more than you think based on the tone of your post.

It's been a great year for Vikings fans. I'm sure you want to believe it will be fine just like we would but I really don't think it will be.

[Rastak]

Pat is much more replaceable than Kevin. Kevin Williams cannot be replaced. They currently spell Pat Williams quite a bit during the game and Fred Evans has played pretty well. There is a drop off though so it does sting a bit. Like I say, if Kevin went down, the drop off is huge.


Depth is very very important. Without Pat, Kevin will have to play more. Evans will have to play more. Their backups will have to play more. It will hurt. Make no mistake about it. I think it's going to hurt more than you think based on the tone of your post.

It's been a great year for Vikings fans. I'm sure you want to believe it will be fine just like we would but I really don't think it will be.


Kevin already plays quite a bit. I'm not sure how much more I can explain it. Sometimes I think you hear what you think you are about to hear or want to hear.

I explained earlier this year somewhere around here that since Pat is well on the wrong side of 30 he wasn't playing nearly as much this year. They signed him to an extension and they need to keep him fresh by limiting his plays. Fred Evans has played pretty well. I'm dead serious.

Please don't insult my intelligence that I'm making it up as a self defense mechanism. I've watched 99% of every play the Vikings have run this year. I go to every home game and watch the DL with the field glasses most of the time.

Pat Williams will absolutely missed on the downs he was playing, which was either 1st, sometimes 2nd and always short yardage. They also mix him in at other times depending on situation. When teams get down to the one, THEN he's really missed. He is quick for a big guy but he rests alot these days.


Let me ask ya this. How many games have you watched to make the statement he'll be missed more than I think? You'll notice I NEVER make statements like Taucsh will be missed badly, or Wells should be replaced because I've only seen maybe 4 Packer games. You guys watch 'em all. I can only comment on some guys play in agame I saw, not what effect his loss might be when I may never have seen his replacement.

Again, if you have Sunday ticket and have watched them quite often this year and want to debate the specifics I can do that. I'm telling you exactly how I see it. Had Kevin gone down I would have just posted: FUCK....there goes that. I believe I may have even discussed the effect of missing these guys in the StarCaps thread. Pat = replaceable somewhat, Kevin = doomed.

[red]

obviously, no team can ever lose a starter. that ends the season right there

thats the sole reason we suck this year, damn cullen jenkins :roll:

yeah, i think without pat williams, the vikings are going to play so bad the next 2 games that the nfl awards the packers the division

[Rastak]

obviously, no team can ever lose a starter. that ends the season right there

thats the sole reason we suck this year, damn cullen jenkins :roll:

yeah, i think without pat williams, the vikings are going to play so bad the next 2 games that the nfl awards the packers the division


I hope I ain't sounding like it was a good thing. :)


Wouldn't they award it to the Bears?

[bobblehead]

thats the sole reason we suck this year, damn cullen jenkins :roll:



nice strawman. I don't recall ANYONE saying that. But, you add in the safeties being in and out of the lineup (bigby basically missed most of the year) and Barnett going down...tada, the guys you count on to make the calls are all backups...as well as your best inside pass rusher.

Clifton playing like he is old isn't helping either.

I know, I know, TT sucks therefore any arguement you pretend people made is stupid.

[Patler]

williams broke his scapula

which has to be tough to do while playing football, he must have taken a helmet right to it

That is the same injury that ended LeRoy Butler's career.

[SMACKTALKIE]

"Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." ~Morpheus

Yes........ and the Packers are 5 and 9.....

[HarveyWallbangers]

"Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." ~Morpheus

Yes........ and the Packers are 5 and 9.....

Well, we have to let the Vikes finish with a better record a couple of times this decade, right?
:D

I actually feel pretty good about the Packers future because I think they found a QB. It's not a guarantee, but a good player lining up behind center is not an easy thing to find.

[SMACKTALKIE]

"Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony." ~Morpheus

Yes........ and the Packers are 5 and 9.....

Well, we have to let the Vikes finish with a better record a couple of times this decade, right?
:D

I actually feel pretty good about the Packers future because I think they found a QB. It's not a guarantee, but a good player lining up behind center is not an easy thing to find.


Suddenly the Vikings QB ssituation is looking up. How many picks do you think TT can trade for a #10 overall pick? :lol:

[HarveyWallbangers]

It will take more than one good game for me to be convinced that Jackson is the answer. It's not like he hasn't had a good game before--especially when the defense is dominating and Peterson is running wild. It might be better for Green Bay if he shows just enough to convince the brain trust that he's the answer. We'll see.

[HarveyWallbangers]

How many picks do you think TT can trade for a #10 overall pick?

And this doesn't even make any sense: 1) We'll probably have the #10 overall pick, 2) Ron Wolf traded up to #10 to get Jamal Reynolds, if that's what you are referring to. Now, we need the Jets to get into the playoffs.

[SMACKTALKIE]

How many picks do you think TT can trade for a #10 overall pick?

And this doesn't even make any sense: 1) We'll probably have the #10 overall pick, 2) Ron Wolf traded up to #10 to get Jamal Reynolds, if that's what you are referring to. Now, we need the Jets to get into the playoffs.

Meaning how many 3rd and 5th round picks can TT get for the 10th overall?

By the way T Jack looked solid regardless of who he played.

[RashanGary]

I'm acctually rooting for the Vikings over the Bears. I want to see you guys get a new stadium now. There are a lot of good Viking fans that deserve to see them stay in Minnesota.

That said, Pat is an elite run stopping DT. He keeps other guys fresh. I think it's going to hurt more than you think. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I don't know the Vikings roster well enough, but I can't imagine losing a DT like him and not being hurt badly. We lost Johnny Jolly last year and Corey Williams was playing well. It still hurt badly. I hope I'm wrong for your guys sake, but in my experience this shit is going to hurt worse people think it will. And Pat is better than Jolly.

[mngolf19]

Will they miss Pat? Absolutely. Will they hold Atl to under 100yds rushing? Maybe not. Will it be their downfall the next 2 games? No.

[RashanGary]

Will they miss Pat? Absolutely. Will they hold Atl to under 100yds rushing? Maybe not. Will it be their downfall the next 2 games? No.

Giants, Falcons - best two running teams.

Could be. Hopefully not. YOu just have to win one and things are in order but I think you guys are doen whether you sneak in or not. That injury is a killer IMO.

[Rastak]

Will they miss Pat? Absolutely. Will they hold Atl to under 100yds rushing? Maybe not. Will it be their downfall the next 2 games? No.

Giants, Falcons - best two running teams.

Could be. Hopefully not. YOu just have to win one and things are in order but I think you guys are doen whether you sneak in or not. That injury is a killer IMO.


Killer, nah. Big? Yes. He's a big part of their run defense and he isn't their entire defense. Actually, EJ Henderson was the heart and soul of that defense and he's been gone most of the year.

[mngolf19]

Will they miss Pat? Absolutely. Will they hold Atl to under 100yds rushing? Maybe not. Will it be their downfall the next 2 games? No.

Giants, Falcons - best two running teams.

Could be. Hopefully not. YOu just have to win one and things are in order but I think you guys are doen whether you sneak in or not. That injury is a killer IMO.

It really depends on alot of things. They could get a bye still. How long is Pat actually out? Who do they play in the first round? They say 2-6 weeks. If it is 2, they may be fine. If 6, then ?

[Rastak]

Will they miss Pat? Absolutely. Will they hold Atl to under 100yds rushing? Maybe not. Will it be their downfall the next 2 games? No.

Giants, Falcons - best two running teams.

Could be. Hopefully not. YOu just have to win one and things are in order but I think you guys are doen whether you sneak in or not. That injury is a killer IMO.

It really depends on alot of things. They could get a bye still. How long is Pat actually out? Who do they play in the first round? They say 2-6 weeks. If it is 2, they may be fine. If 6, then ?


I'm guessing more on the high end. That was a weird play too. He didn't seem to get hit that hard.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ras is right in that Kevin Williams (or Jared Allen) would be much more difficult to replace. Kind of unfortunate that they'll have to play two great running teams, but they also might be playing the Giants after they've clinched home field (and they did play Arizona after they clinched their division). Minnesota has a ton of talent, but I don't trust their QB play yet.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I disagree that Pat is so easily replaced. He's an absolute run stopping beast and demands double teams and if you don't he murders you. I would argue that he's their best DL player. Offenses now don't have to double team that spot as much, so OL have a greater chance of getting to that second level.

Just my opinion, but this is going to hurt the Vikes more than most think.

[Pacopete4]

I disagree that Pat is so easily replaced. He's an absolute run stopping beast and demands double teams and if you don't he murders you. I would argue that he's their best DL player. Offenses now don't have to double team that spot as much, so OL have a greater chance of getting to that second level.

Just my opinion, but this is going to hurt the Vikes more than most think.


couldn't agree more! They are going to face two teams that can pound the football. This also takes away from their depth, making the backup play more which as we've seen from our team is not a good thing. Also, it will hurt Kevin Williams because they will not be focused on him completely. It will have a trickle down affect on Jared Allen as well. The only thing I can see going for them is that they will play the Giants whos Oline is really banged up.

[RashanGary]

100% agreement, Paco.


Keven Williams and Jared Allen are dynamite at rushing the passer. The Vikings defense was much better with Pat Williams stopping the run on early downs, forcing a lot of 3rd and long situations for Kevin and Jared to finish off.

NOW. . . .


Teams will run more and be more successful at it.

The Vikings will see fewer and fewer 3rd and longs

Jared Allen and Kevin Williams will be fighting off run blocks all game and not rushing the QB very often. This will wear them out and keep them from playing to their biggest strengths (rushing the passer).

The Vikings defense will have fewer and fewer obvious pass situations. They'll never know what is coming. QB's will get more comfortable because they'll have the defense off balance in favorable down and distance (something the Vikes are not used to with Pat clogging the middle on early downs)

Kevin Williams will play more and get warn out

Pat Williams backup will play more and get warn out

The defense will be more tired late in the game and more likely to cave. 1 heroic play by Peterson isn't going to be enough anymore.

The linebackers are going to see more offensive lineman and their inabilty to shed blocks will show up.

Defensive lineman are sooooooo important. After this week I think we'll be looking at a scenario where the Bears have to beat Houston and the Vikings have to lose to the Giants and the Vikes blew another chance at the post season. I don't want it to happen, but honestly I think the odds are a lot better than people think.

[mngolf19]

100% agreement, Paco.


Keven Williams and Jared Allen are dynamite at rushing the passer. The Vikings defense was much better with Pat Williams stopping the run on early downs, forcing a lot of 3rd and long situations for Kevin and Jared to finish off.

NOW. . . .


Teams will run more and be more successful at it.

The Vikings will see fewer and fewer 3rd and longs

Jared Allen and Kevin Williams will be fighting off run blocks all game and not rushing the QB very often. This will wear them out and keep them from playing to their biggest strengths (rushing the passer).

The Vikings defense will have fewer and fewer obvious pass situations. They'll never know what is coming. QB's will get more comfortable because they'll have the defense off balance in favorable down and distance (something the Vikes are not used to with Pat clogging the middle on early downs)

Kevin Williams will play more and get warn out

Pat Williams backup will play more and get warn out

The defense will be more tired late in the game and more likely to cave. 1 heroic play by Peterson isn't going to be enough anymore.

The linebackers are going to see more offensive lineman and their inabilty to shed blocks will show up.

Defensive lineman are sooooooo important. After this week I think we'll be looking at a scenario where the Bears have to beat Houston and the Vikings have to lose to the Giants and the Vikes blew another chance at the post season. I don't want it to happen, but honestly I think the odds are a lot better than people think.

Man, to hear you guys talk why would the Vikes even suit up? Read Ras post. He doesn't play as many snaps as he used to. He helps most in obvious running situations. 1st downs and short yardage plays. Other than that, the backups are just fine. I am plenty confident they have enough to beat either team, but I doubt they will win both. And remember, the Vikes will be trying to control the clock and put up a lead so they can force the other team to throw and have less time to score. Pat is not a pass rusher so any passing situation is still going to be advantage Vikes.

[Rastak]

I will concede JH's point on 1st down rushes though. 2nd and 4 is a helluva lot better than 2nd and 10 for an offense.

Either way, we'll see. If the Falcons rush for their usual yards per game I'll admit JH was right. If they don't, it will be interesting to see what peoples thoughts are.

[Pacopete4]

its like losing g. brown... p. williams is a leader on that d and it will affect them sooner or later..

[Rastak]

I disagree that Pat is so easily replaced. He's an absolute run stopping beast and demands double teams and if you don't he murders you. I would argue that he's their best DL player. Offenses now don't have to double team that spot as much, so OL have a greater chance of getting to that second level.

Just my opinion, but this is going to hurt the Vikes more than most think.


Well the jury is in and the Vikings definately handled the #1 rush offense in the NFL without Pat Williams....now the seven F'ing fumbles on the other hand.... :cry:

[Lurker64]

Well the jury is in and the Vikings definately handled the #1 rush offense in the NFL without Pat Williams....now the seven F'ing fumbles on the other hand.... :cry:

Pat Williams normally prevents fumbles. You guys are in trouble.

[Rastak]

Well the jury is in and the Vikings definately handled the #1 rush offense in the NFL without Pat Williams....now the seven F'ing fumbles on the other hand.... :cry:

Pat Williams normally prevents fumbles. You guys are in trouble.


That is true....what the bigger loss?


The Packers losing Favre's ability to inspire the defense or the Vikings losing Pat Williams ability to ward off fumbles?

[Bossman641]

Well the jury is in and the Vikings definately handled the #1 rush offense in the NFL without Pat Williams....now the seven F'ing fumbles on the other hand.... :cry:

Pat Williams normally prevents fumbles. You guys are in trouble.


That is true....what the bigger loss?


The Packers losing Favre's ability to inspire the defense or the Vikings losing Pat Williams ability to ward off fumbles?

Favre, because he has the ability to prevent players from getting injured. You are forgetting that he inspires the special teams as well.