Fade to Finley

[Patler]

There have been some articles and discussions about the failed fade to Finley. I have the game on Tivo, so I watched it again, sort of frame by frame.

The ball was snapped and Rodgers was two steps into his drop back, with his arm raised ready to throw, and Finley hadn't left the line of scrimmage yet. The DB gave him a real weak bump at the line (nothing like Harris would do!), but it really didn't affect him a lot. It just looked like he was apprehensive about the play from the start and did not play it aggressively at all. He sort of straightened at the snap, and just stood there for a beat or two, and then never fought to establish position. It even looked like Rodgers hesitated a bit before throwing, waiting for Finley to get going.

A weak play by a very young player. Totally out of sync with Rodgers.

[KYPack]

The thing that knocks me out is the situation. Twice, at least, MM has trotted this play out in critical situations. Down close, we always ran Driver or Jennings on slants or shallow crosses.

Now when he needs a play, MM calls on the most immature, inexperienced football player on the roster. I think Finley will play for us (I hope) someday, but he clearly isn't ready to make a big play for us now.

What I assume is happening is that Finley tears that play up in practice. But it's a whole different deal in a game situation in crunch time.

MM is violating the basic coaches rule. Put your players in position to make plays, but don't ask them to do things they aren't capable of doing. Finley will probably make that play in his sleep someday, but right now he's way too green to be called on in that spot.

[Fritz]

How true that is. MM's goal-line play calling has been odd this year, methinks.

My favorite was the second or third and goal fake to Ahman Green, Favre rolling right, then throwing back across to a wide open Bubba Franks.

Worked like a charm.

[DonHutson]

TE will be an interesting position to watch in the off-season. They clearly need more production from that position. Lee is a slightly above average player who seems to have had an off year for whatever reason. Humphrey is just a guy, and Finley is a major project who may or may not deliver at some unspecified point in the future.

So what do you do? There seem to be some pretty good TE's in the draft. However, with major needs on OL and DL can the Packers really afford another high pick at this position for the second year in a row? And if they do, they better be damn certain that the rookie or Finley will be ready for prime time next year.

Perhaps this is just the kind of situation where Ted takes a plunge in the FA or trade market to replace Humphrey's roster spot with a more productive veteren. They were obviously very interested in Gonzalez at the trade deadline. I'm sure Tony's not any happier in KC, and the guy who kept jacking up the price for him is gone. Maybe a more reasonable deal can be struck, assuming the Packers are still appealing to Gonzalez, that is. One would also expect Kellen Winslow to be available in trade, but while he's talented I don't think he makes your team any better.

The FA crop at TE is the same list of recycled crap that's available every year at that position. Eric Johnson, anyone?

So what do they do? Most likely look for a lowball FA to compete with Humphrey and hope the light goes on for Finley. Possibly they rekindle the trade talks for Gonzalez.

[denverYooper]

What I assume is happening is that Finley tears that play up in practice. But it's a whole different deal in a game situation in crunch time.


aka "(DFS) Derrick Frost Syndrome"

[Patler]

They claim Finley's blocking has improved a lot, and on replays Sunday he did have some effective blocks. As a receiver, he seems a very long way away from really contributing. Maybe the off-season will do it, but with as little college experience as he had, I see him need at least one more year, and more likely two more years to start becoming the player they hope for.

[Patler]

The thing that knocks me out is the situation. Twice, at least, MM has trotted this play out in critical situations. Down close, we always ran Driver or Jennings on slants or shallow crosses.

Now when he needs a play, MM calls on the most immature, inexperienced football player on the roster. I think Finley will play for us (I hope) someday, but he clearly isn't ready to make a big play for us now.

What I assume is happening is that Finley tears that play up in practice. But it's a whole different deal in a game situation in crunch time.

MM is violating the basic coaches rule. Put your players in position to make plays, but don't ask them to do things they aren't capable of doing. Finley will probably make that play in his sleep someday, but right now he's way too green to be called on in that spot.

That was what really surprised me on Sunday. At least they did it on second down, giving them third down to try something else. But I think I would wait until I had a comfortable lead before going to Finley on that play, or maybe try to involve him in the passing offense generally before running a goal line play to him. He has shown little to nothing as a receiver in games.

[DonHutson]

Maybe the off-season will do it, but with as little college experience as he had, I see him need at least one more year, and more likely two more years to start becoming the player they hope for.

Unless he has a complete personality transplant, I have my doubts that one off-season will get him ready to go. I'm not convinced he thinks he NEEDS to get any better as a receiver.

[KYPack]

Another real bitch is the fact that the PS TE we lost to the Fins played very well Sunday. Joey Haynos scored his first NFL touchdown Sunday and he looks pretty good.

He's ahead of Finley on the scoring charts already.

Parcells is back in business and nobody sneaks a player by Ol Mean Bill on the PS.

[bobblehead]

Another real bitch is the fact that the PS TE we lost to the Fins played very well Sunday. Joey Haynos scored his first NFL touchdown Sunday and he looks pretty good.

He's ahead of Finley on the scoring charts already.

Parcells is back in business and nobody sneaks a player by Ol Mean Bill on the PS.

Funny, I thought of Haynos a few times sunday. He looked pretty nice in the preseason, but I guess they really wanted to see Humphry turn into a player.

[Patler]

Another real bitch is the fact that the PS TE we lost to the Fins played very well Sunday. Joey Haynos scored his first NFL touchdown Sunday and he looks pretty good.

He's ahead of Finley on the scoring charts already.


I hated to see Haynos go. He outplayed Finley in limited pre-season action, and demonstrated real passion for the game from what little I saw. I was hoping to see him in the old Bubba Franks role, a good blocker and a huge target in the end zone. Plus, he showed quickness that Franks never had.

[KYPack]

Another real bitch is the fact that the PS TE we lost to the Fins played very well Sunday. Joey Haynos scored his first NFL touchdown Sunday and he looks pretty good.

He's ahead of Finley on the scoring charts already.

Parcells is back in business and nobody sneaks a player by Ol Mean Bill on the PS.

Funny, I thought of Haynos a few times sunday. He looked pretty nice in the preseason, but I guess they really wanted to see Humphry turn into a player.

I must like this thread. There is a lot of stuff going on that revolve around the Packer TE position this season.

MM wants a playmaking TE to compliment Lee. They would've liked to keep Haynos, both MM & TT liked him a lot. Parcell and his boys spotted Haynos on our PS and went after him in the early season. TT tried to offer him more $ to stay in GB, but Haynos took the big league gig immediately.

This freaked TT out. About two weeks later, Parcells went after Danny Lasanah. TT wasted no time in promoting Lasanah to the big roster, at the same time cutting Tracy White. TT knew that lip service wouldn't keep Lasanah around, TT had to commit to him. The problem was, we missed Tracy White a lot. White was the bull goose for our ST units. Without White, our ST kick teams got gashed.

Meanwhile, MM wanted his TE. When Gonzales came on the market, TT went after him. KC GM Carl Peterson made a deal with the Packers and Tony G was set to come north. Then the deal went South. One story out of KC is that KC ownership felt the Gonzales package offered by the Pack was light. Peterson tried to raise the stakes in the deal at the last minute, to get more for Tony G. TT (correctly I think) then backed out of the new deal. KC wound up with nothing and Peterson looked like a goof for blowing the deal. NOW, KC owners felt Peterson bungled the whole thing. & Ol Carl is out in KC, and the botched Gonzales deal is one of the reasons cited for it.

We didn't come out of the whole thing that good, either. We lost Haynos, Tracy White, and are still trying to get an effective second TE in our scheme. So they are trying to rush Finley into a job which he ain't ready for.

Meanwhile Lasanah has proven to be a so-so rookie. He was inactive on Sunday and fellow rookie Spencer Havner was on the traveling squad to Jacksonville for the Jags game.

Things haven't gone our way this year, to say the least.

[Patler]

I must like this thread. There is a lot of stuff going on that revolve around the Packer TE position this season.

MM wants a playmaking TE to compliment Lee. They would've liked to keep Haynos, both MM & TT liked him a lot. Parcell and his boys spotted Haynos on our PS and went after him in the early season. TT tried to offer him more $ to stay in GB, but Haynos took the big league gig immediately.

This freaked TT out. About two weeks later, Parcells went after Danny Lasanah. TT wasted no time in promoting Lasanah to the big roster, at the same time cutting Tracy White. TT knew that lip service wouldn't keep Lasanah around, TT had to commit to him. The problem was, we missed Tracy White a lot. White was the bull goose for our ST units. Without White, our ST kick teams got gashed.

Meanwhile, MM wanted his TE. When Gonzales came on the market, TT went after him. KC GM Carl Peterson made a deal with the Packers and Tony G was set to come north. Then the deal went South. One story out of KC is that KC ownership felt the Gonzales package offered by the Pack was light. Peterson tried to raise the stakes in the deal at the last minute, to get more for Tony G. TT (correctly I think) then backed out of the new deal. KC wound up with nothing and Peterson looked like a goof for blowing the deal. NOW, KC owners felt Peterson bungled the whole thing. & Ol Carl is out in KC, and the botched Gonzales deal is one of the reasons cited for it.

We didn't come out of the whole thing that good, either. We lost Haynos, Tracy White, and are still trying to get an effective second TE in our scheme. So they are trying to rush Finley into a job which he ain't ready for.

Meanwhile Lasanah has proven to be a so-so rookie. He was inactive on Sunday and fellow rookie Spencer Havner was on the traveling squad to Jacksonville for the Jags game.

Things haven't gone our way this year, to say the least.

Sure makes you hope they are right about Finley, doesn't it? Drafting him petty much assured him the #3 roster spot, Lee was going to be #1 and they always liked Humphrey's ability as a receiver, so at the time they really had no room for another developing player like Haynos.

I kind of wish they had used the Finley draft pick on someone else, and had Haynos as #3. I just don't get a real positive feeling about Finley.

[Bretsky]

Dustin Keller would look pretty dam good with that first round draft pick now :!:

[The Leaper]

Sounds to me like Thompson's weaknesses as a GM are being exposed. As a talent scout, he might be pretty good...but there is more to being a GM than scouting talent. Thompson needs to pick up the pace to stay in Green Bay long term.

[denverYooper]

Well, they got that fade to work. Finley's shown some promise in the last 2 games, enough to give hope that he might be a playmaking TE yet. I'm hoping he breaks out next year.

Hopefully he learns to ignore the press's bait.

[channtheman]

Well, they got that fade to work. Finley's shown some promise in the last 2 games, enough to give hope that he might be a playmaking TE yet. I'm hoping he breaks out next year.

Hopefully he learns to ignore the press's bait.

IF he continues how he has (he still dropped a pass today) he could be a very good TE for us and that is exciting. However, I agree he does need to not talk to the press at all if he can't help but say bad things about the packers and individual players.

[RashanGary]

Could be a stud. We'll see. He seems to have a couple screws loose, but he wouldn't be the first player with a screw loose to make a very entertaining career. HOpefully he's a hard worker and takes his opportunity seriously. He has talent.


Rodgers said he was the 2nd most raw talented player on the Packers after Woodson. That's big praise for a 21 year old kid. He just has to fullfill it now.

[cpk1994]

He has a lot of raw talent, but it seems he has a 10 cent head. If he can get it fixed between the ears, he'll be a great asset.

[digitaldean]

He outplayed Lee today. Only thing that really kept him from player of the game is the drop in the 2nd half.

GJ had a mediocre game. Great comeback on the 47 yarder in the 2nd half, but his 3 drops kept from breaking this game wide open early.

[The Leaper]

Finley has incredible talent...but the light might never come on fully to take advantage of it. He was worth the chance at that point in the draft though...because he COULD turn into a very good player.

He's shown flashes of potential...I think that was all you could ask for this year considering his youth and inexperience even on the college stage. I don't expect him to be a world beater next year either...although I think he could be a dangerous threat as a #2 TE though. Hopefully, the kid works hard this offseason and has a great camp next fall.

[Bretsky]

Lee is simply not that talented; I hope Finley gets stronger, gets a better attitude, and becomes our starter

[The Leaper]

I agree on Lee...he's just a guy. Nothing special from him whatsoever.

I just doubt Finley is going to be our guy next year...the kid still has a hell of a lot of learning to do.

[Bretsky]

I agree on Lee...he's just a guy. Nothing special from him whatsoever.

I just doubt Finley is going to be our guy next year...the kid still has a hell of a lot of learning to do.


Take that third you got for Favre and go get Gonzo

Keep Gonzo, Finley, and Humphrey

Sign a DL free agent that can start

Draft Travis Mays in round one and another DL in round two

Team would be back soon

[DonHutson]

Does a nice TD catch and his first Lambeau Leap open his eyes to his own potential?

Or does it just convince him that he was right all along and he already knows everything?

I dunno. Lots of kids his age grow up and figure things out. I hope he's one of them.

As for Gonzalez, I'd still be on board with acquiring him but I'd want him for less than we were offering at midseason. That 3rd at the deadline was expected to be at the back of the round. Now that we know it's toward the front, I don't give them more than a 4th.

[esoxx]

He has a lot of raw talent, but it seems he has a 10 cent head. If he can get it fixed between the ears, he'll be a great asset.

So does Winslow but I'd take that kind of production. When he's on the field that is.

[pack4to84]

I agree on Lee...he's just a guy. Nothing special from him whatsoever.

I just doubt Finley is going to be our guy next year...the kid still has a hell of a lot of learning to do.


Take that third you got for Favre and go get Gonzo

Keep Gonzo, Finley, and Humphrey

Sign a DL free agent that can start

Draft Travis Mays in round one and another DL in round two

Team would be back soonI would like this offseason if it turned out this way

[red]

he flashed his potential for the first time today

if he shuts up and pulls his head out of his ass, he has all the gifts and tools to be something special

also, everyone knew when he was drafted that he was a 2 or 3 year project

[HarveyWallbangers]

Lee's a solid player. He's not elite, but there are plenty of other starting TEs worse than him.

[Partial]

Lee's a solid player. He's not elite, but there are plenty of other starting TEs worse than him.

Yep. Last year he was very good. This year we used those options less imo.

[KYPack]

Lee was also a victim of circumstances. Last year the passing offense was humming. Lot's of times we were running those shallow crosses, quicks, and digs. The D's were spreading out their coverages to stop some of those routes. This left the seam wide open. And Lee took good advantage of that.

This season, they weren't running as much of that stuff and the deep seams weren't called. That was Lee's bread and butter and he suffered as a result. Lee's an OK troop. A little better than just a guy, maybe "just an average NFL TE or something".

Finley developed in several areas. At the end of the season, he was actually a factor in ST. He was staying in his lane, running the field, and covering his spots. He didn't know where his spots were at the start of the year. If that kid ever learns his assignments and gets people to trust him, he could be dangerous.

[Fritz]

What's surprising to me is that the Pack seems to like Humphrey so much. I would think, with a young fast guy like Findley on the team, the Pack would've preferred Haynos over Humphrey. Humphrey can't seem to stay on the field.

That was what was odd to me - I get keeping Findley around, and I kinda get Donald Lee, but why Humphrey over Haynos?