Wes Welker's end zone snow angel

[Badgerinmaine]

Yesterday, the Patriots blew the Cardinals out on a very snowy day in New England. The Pats were already way ahead when Wes Welker scored, and followed it up by lying on his back and making a snow angel--the kind lots of us made as kids. It's an automatic flag to go to the ground in celebration and they got him for unsportsmanlike conduct. (Arizona, I believe, went three and out on the next series so it didn't end up hurting his team). I think the league rule is kind of silly, and I have company:
http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/11187086

Now, I'm an old school guy about sportsmanship, "it's how you play the game" and all that. But it seems to me that there's a difference between a celebration where you are mocking someone to his face (like the old Mark Gastineau sack dance, or spiking the ball in front of someone's face). I never has a problem with the old Redskins' Fun Bunch or anything of the sort. Maybe using props is going too far, but I think the rules are too tight now.

[Rastak]

Rules are too tight? Nah. You guys are lucky I ain't in charge. Anything over handing the ball to the ref would be 15 yards. Twice in one game is auto ejection.


Jim Brown said it best, "Why all the bufoonery"

[SkinBasket]

Jim Brown said it best, "Why all the bufoonery"

Because a vast majority of the players are buffoons, as evidenced by McNabb and then elaborated on by the slew of stories afterward pointing out that a lot of players don't know dick about the game they're paid millions to play.

I agree though, that there's a difference between the contrived Ocho Cinco look-at-me stunts celebrated by ESPN and more spontaneous events like Welker's. But leaving that decision in the hands of the officials would be disastrous. Unfortunately a core group of egomaniacal cock slappers ruined the idea of spontaneous celebration in an effort to boost their name recognition and jersey sales so they could brag to each other about how clever and beloved they are.

[packinpatland]

What Welker did after scoring the TD was fine by me. How was it different than a dance in the end zone.....or the imfamous Lambeau Leap? Or everytime a defensive guy celebrates a tackle?.........or even Donald Driver doing his 'shimmy' after a great catch?
The flag was wrong.

[Rastak]

What Welker did after scoring the TD was fine by me. How was it different than a dance in the end zone.....or the imfamous Lambeau Leap? Or everytime a defensive guy celebrates a tackle?.........or even Donald Driver doing his 'shimmy' after a great catch?
The flag was wrong.


Every one of those things should draw a flag. Act like a pro dammit! 8-)

[Brandon494]

I would love to see how one of you guys would react with millions cheering for you. I agree the Ocho Cinco crap is too much but give me a break.

[Rastak]

I would love to see how one of you guys would react with millions cheering for you. I agree the Ocho Cinco crap is too much but give me a break.


Like Barry Sanders maybe?

[oregonpackfan]

What Welker did after scoring the TD was fine by me. How was it different than a dance in the end zone.....or the imfamous Lambeau Leap? Or everytime a defensive guy celebrates a tackle?.........or even Donald Driver doing his 'shimmy' after a great catch?
The flag was wrong.

I agree the Welker celebration was just a spontaneous act of celebration. He was not trying to mock an opponent or do anything obscene.

[packinpatland]

What Welker did after scoring the TD was fine by me. How was it different than a dance in the end zone.....or the imfamous Lambeau Leap? Or everytime a defensive guy celebrates a tackle?.........or even Donald Driver doing his 'shimmy' after a great catch?
The flag was wrong.


Every one of those things should draw a flag. Act like a pro dammit! 8-)

Come on........................booooooring...........

[Gunakor]

What Welker did after scoring the TD was fine by me. How was it different than a dance in the end zone.....or the imfamous Lambeau Leap? Or everytime a defensive guy celebrates a tackle?.........or even Donald Driver doing his 'shimmy' after a great catch?
The flag was wrong.


Every one of those things should draw a flag. Act like a pro dammit! 8-)

Come on........................booooooring...........

They aren't dancers, they are football players. I watch them because I want to watch football, not because I want to see the next endzone celebration. I agree with Ras. Dancing or choreographed celebrations - including the Driver shimmy - are not football and have no place in football. And that's only boring if you watch football games because you want to see more than football. For me, just football is enough.

What ever happened to the professional handshake the DB's had goin on earlier this year? That was classy!

[channtheman]

What Welker did after scoring the TD was fine by me. How was it different than a dance in the end zone.....or the imfamous Lambeau Leap? Or everytime a defensive guy celebrates a tackle?.........or even Donald Driver doing his 'shimmy' after a great catch?
The flag was wrong.


Every one of those things should draw a flag. Act like a pro dammit! 8-)

Come on........................booooooring...........

They aren't dancers, they are football players. I watch them because I want to watch football, not because I want to see the next endzone celebration. I agree with Ras. Dancing or choreographed celebrations - including the Driver shimmy - are not football and have no place in football. And that's only boring if you watch football games because you want to see more than football. For me, just football is enough.

What ever happened to the professional handshake the DB's had goin on earlier this year? That was classy!

While we are at it why don't we also just make it illegal to shout or get loud at football games. And maybe we should decide the Super Bowl champion by playing Chess.

Okay, that's a little far, but do you really think we should not allow the Lambeau Leap? Or spiking the football? I don't watch football for the celebrations but what do you think of when you think about Super Bowl XXXI? Brett Favre running around with his helmet in the air. Imagine if he just shrugged and walked off the field.

[RashanGary]

For some reason when a white guy celebrates it's much less offensive than when a black guy does. Call me a good old fashioned racist but that's just how I feel about that.

[Harlan Huckleby]

They aren't dancers, they are football players. I watch them because I want to watch football, not because I want to see the next endzone celebration. I agree with Ras. Dancing or choreographed celebrations - including the Driver shimmy - are not football and have no place in football.

I understand where you are coming from, but its a matter of taste. I kinda like the Driver shimmy. And snow angels are very cool. I liked Moss's moon over lambau. And Owen's sharpie routine was creative.

Maybe if football were all Bud Grant types, I could be OK with that too.

[Rastak]

What Welker did after scoring the TD was fine by me. How was it different than a dance in the end zone.....or the imfamous Lambeau Leap? Or everytime a defensive guy celebrates a tackle?.........or even Donald Driver doing his 'shimmy' after a great catch?
The flag was wrong.


Every one of those things should draw a flag. Act like a pro dammit! 8-)

Come on........................booooooring...........

They aren't dancers, they are football players. I watch them because I want to watch football, not because I want to see the next endzone celebration. I agree with Ras. Dancing or choreographed celebrations - including the Driver shimmy - are not football and have no place in football. And that's only boring if you watch football games because you want to see more than football. For me, just football is enough.

What ever happened to the professional handshake the DB's had goin on earlier this year? That was classy!

While we are at it why don't we also just make it illegal to shout or get loud at football games. And maybe we should decide the Super Bowl champion by playing Chess.

Okay, that's a little far, but do you really think we should not allow the Lambeau Leap? Or spiking the football? I don't watch football for the celebrations but what do you think of when you think about Super Bowl XXXI? Brett Favre running around with his helmet in the air. Imagine if he just shrugged and walked off the field.


I would have thought, "now there's a pro's pro".


Seriously, I don't mind the pure emotion but maybe reserve the theatrics for the last play of the superbowl when you win. Then run and dance. I think it was Deacon Jones on NFL network who said in his day the time to celebrate was was when the game ended and you won.


Bravo Deacon. You da man. (Actually he was).

[Harlan Huckleby]

For some reason when a white guy celebrates it's much less offensive than when a black guy does. Call me a good old fashioned racist but that's just how I feel about that.

ya, when a white guy dances its like watching a disabled person overcome some handicap, you got to cheer the effort.

[Rastak]

For some reason when a white guy celebrates it's much less offensive than when a black guy does. Call me a good old fashioned racist but that's just how I feel about that.


You are kidding I assume....sometimes with you it's hard to tell.

[Badgerinmaine]

If you haven't seen the play, here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU8aCzzF1Ns

[packinpatland]

For some reason when a white guy celebrates it's much less offensive than when a black guy does. Call me a good old fashioned racist but that's just how I feel about that.


You're an old fashioned racist.....I couldn't use the word good. :lol:

[MadtownPacker]

For some reason when a white guy celebrates it's much less offensive than when a black guy does. Call me a good old fashioned racist but that's just how I feel about that.Are you serious? That is weak BS and I doubt you would say that in a Black dudes face.

[Rastak]

For some reason when a white guy celebrates it's much less offensive than when a black guy does. Call me a good old fashioned racist but that's just how I feel about that.Are you serious? That is weak BS and I doubt you would say that in a Black dudes face.

He's likely never sit down with one. How sad that is.

[imscott72]

For some reason when a white guy celebrates it's much less offensive than when a black guy does. Call me a good old fashioned racist but that's just how I feel about that.

Oh jeez.. :roll:

[Gunakor]

What Welker did after scoring the TD was fine by me. How was it different than a dance in the end zone.....or the imfamous Lambeau Leap? Or everytime a defensive guy celebrates a tackle?.........or even Donald Driver doing his 'shimmy' after a great catch?
The flag was wrong.


Every one of those things should draw a flag. Act like a pro dammit! 8-)

Come on........................booooooring...........

They aren't dancers, they are football players. I watch them because I want to watch football, not because I want to see the next endzone celebration. I agree with Ras. Dancing or choreographed celebrations - including the Driver shimmy - are not football and have no place in football. And that's only boring if you watch football games because you want to see more than football. For me, just football is enough.

What ever happened to the professional handshake the DB's had goin on earlier this year? That was classy!

While we are at it why don't we also just make it illegal to shout or get loud at football games. And maybe we should decide the Super Bowl champion by playing Chess.

Okay, that's a little far, but do you really think we should not allow the Lambeau Leap? Or spiking the football? I don't watch football for the celebrations but what do you think of when you think about Super Bowl XXXI? Brett Favre running around with his helmet in the air. Imagine if he just shrugged and walked off the field.

How about something in between? Like a good old fashioned fist pump, or jumping and hugging his offensive linemen? Nothing wrong with that either.

[MJZiggy]

I think there's a difference between pure emotion and pulling a sharpie out of your sock.

If Wes wants to toss himself down in the snow, more power. He didn't run over to the nearest defender to do it in his face.

[RashanGary]

Oh good god people. Yes, it was sarcastic. I topped it off with the ol' southern drawl and everything. Sheesh.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think Wes Walker should sue the NFL for religious descrimination.

[Pugger]

I had no problem with the snow angel. I think as long as a player doesn't use a prop (sharpie, pom poms, etc.) and is not taunting his opponent the NFL should lighten up. :roll:

[Fosco33]

At least is wasn't a snow demon :wink:

[Harlan Huckleby]

I had no problem with the snow angel. I think as long as a player doesn't use a prop (sharpie, pom poms, etc.) and is not taunting his opponent the NFL should lighten up. :roll:

I agree about the taunting, but what was the harm of the Sharpie, or a player waving some pom-poms?

How are waving the cheerleader pom-poms any different from the Lambeau leap, where non-players are also involved? Or throwing a football into the stands?

I can understand how some people think players should hand the ball to the ref and act like they have been there before, as the old coaches say. Well, fine, you are free to admire the players who act that way, and curse the hip shakers. And if a team wants to have their own rules, fine.

How would you feel about fining players for insufficient celebration? Their lack of excitement shows a don't-care attitude about their job, and its really an insult to the fans. Bad for the image of the game.

I just don't like the idea of making conduct illegal simply because it doesn't meet with your tastes. People often want to have their own tastes enforced by law or rules.

I agree there has to be some limits: no waving of dicks at the opposing crowd, for instance. No other forms of taunting. But nothing wrong with a little theater. Football is just entertainment.

[Rastak]

I have a great idea, why don't they ALL hand the ball to the ref like Barry Sanders removing all gray lines, bad sportsmanship and general bufoonery (term trademark Jim Brown).

[packinpatland]

I think Wes Walker should sue the NFL for religious descrimination.

Toooooooooo funny.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txpatriotswelkerfined&prov=st&type=lgns

Welker fined $10,000 for ‘snow angel’ celebration
Dec 24, 3:24 pm EST) —For imitating an angel, New England Patriots wide receiver Wes Welker had his wings clipped.

The NFL on Wednesday fined Welker $10,000 for making a “snow angel” during a touchdown celebration in Sunday’s 47-7 victory over the Arizona Cardinals.

Welker was punished for “unsportsmanlike conduct for participation in an illegal demonstration by going to the ground.”

According to league rules, players are prohibited from going to the ground for a TD celebration unless it is in prayer.
“It was a spur of the moment deal, and you can be sure that it won’t happen again,” Welker told the Boston Globe.

[MJZiggy]

I have a great idea, why don't they ALL hand the ball to the ref like Barry Sanders removing all gray lines, bad sportsmanship and general bufoonery (term trademark Jim Brown).

Because some of the stuff they do is fun. It adds to our entertainment.

[oregonpackfan]

I think Wes Walker should sue the NFL for religious descrimination.

Toooooooooo funny.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txpatriotswelkerfined&prov=st&type=lgns

Welker fined $10,000 for ‘snow angel’ celebration
Dec 24, 3:24 pm EST) —For imitating an angel, New England Patriots wide receiver Wes Welker had his wings clipped.

The NFL on Wednesday fined Welker $10,000 for making a “snow angel” during a touchdown celebration in Sunday’s 47-7 victory over the Arizona Cardinals.

Welker was punished for “unsportsmanlike conduct for participation in an illegal demonstration by going to the ground.”

According to league rules, players are prohibited from going to the ground for a TD celebration unless it is in prayer.
“It was a spur of the moment deal, and you can be sure that it won’t happen again,” Welker told the Boston Globe.

I was absolutely appalled when I read about the $10K fine! My goodness, it was just a spontaneous act of jubilation. It had no taunting, suggestive, or immoral actions. If I were a Patriots fan, I would take up a collection to pay Welker for the fine.

[channtheman]

I think Wes Walker should sue the NFL for religious descrimination.

Toooooooooo funny.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txpatriotswelkerfined&prov=st&type=lgns

Welker fined $10,000 for ‘snow angel’ celebration
Dec 24, 3:24 pm EST) —For imitating an angel, New England Patriots wide receiver Wes Welker had his wings clipped.

The NFL on Wednesday fined Welker $10,000 for making a “snow angel” during a touchdown celebration in Sunday’s 47-7 victory over the Arizona Cardinals.

Welker was punished for “unsportsmanlike conduct for participation in an illegal demonstration by going to the ground.”

According to league rules, players are prohibited from going to the ground for a TD celebration unless it is in prayer.
“It was a spur of the moment deal, and you can be sure that it won’t happen again,” Welker told the Boston Globe.

Wow. I mean I know the NFL doesn't want celebrations and all but 10,000 for a snow angel? I won't be surprised when they start fining for the Lambeau leap.

[Badgerinmaine]

If I were editing a newspaper, my headline would be "NFL SAYS NO TO ANGELS ON CHRISTMAS EVE". Look at the date of the press release...

[Rastak]

I have a great idea, why don't they ALL hand the ball to the ref like Barry Sanders removing all gray lines, bad sportsmanship and general bufoonery (term trademark Jim Brown).

Because some of the stuff they do is fun. It adds to our entertainment.


Fun for whom? The person they are showing up or the fans who somehow need these goofy displays of poor sportsmanship? :P

[packinpatland]

So then......if you could, you'd vote no to the Lambeau Leap?

[Patler]

I agree with Ras 100%.
Scored a TD? Fine, act like you've done it before, not like it is a total shock to you!

[Rastak]

So then......if you could, you'd vote no to the Lambeau Leap?


What Patler said.

[packinpatland]

You guys really would turn it into the NoFunLeague :lol:

[Gunakor]

I have a great idea, why don't they ALL hand the ball to the ref like Barry Sanders removing all gray lines, bad sportsmanship and general bufoonery (term trademark Jim Brown).

Because some of the stuff they do is fun. It adds to our entertainment.

I could see some value there, but it's still not football. If these guys want to dance, they should do like Sapp, Rice, and Smith and just retire so they can go dance. I'm all about the Barry Sanders/Marvin Harrison approach to scoring TD's - just hand the ball to an official and run back to the sidelines. Then celebrate with your team, on the sidelines and away from the spotlight. Not by yourself in the endzone where all the cameras can see you acting like a damn fool.

People make the argument that the NFL stands for No Fun League... Let me ask you something about this however. If FOOTBALL isn't enough fun by itself, what the hell is anybody doing in this league in the first place? I personally get all of my entertainment value from watching a football game. I'd hope all of the players get theirs from playing in it. If you aren't having enough fun just playing football...

[Rastak]

To add to the above, I think it was Deacon Jones who said in his day they celebrated after winning the game, not before it was decided.

[Gunakor]

You guys really would turn it into the NoFunLeague :lol:

Again...

If FOOTBALL isn't enough fun without all the crazy celebrations in the endzone, then get out of the league. FOOTBALL is fun enough by itself.

Note I capitalize Football because Football is not dancing and carrying on and acting the dumbass. Football is scoring 6 points for your team and giving the ball back to an official. Football is realizing that no matter what you've accomplished individually, it means nothing when compared to the team. So go back to the sidelines and celebrate with your team after scoring, don't sit there in the spotlight and celebrate by yourself.

[GrnBay007]

Some of the off the wall stuff bothered me. Like when Moss did the fake moon. I would have felt that was disrespectful even if it hadn't been against the Packers that year.

Whatever happens, I just hope they never outlaw the Lambeau Leap. I love that!!

[bobblehead]

How about this. Its a penalty, no reading minds. Next thing you know we will be reading a QB's mind as far as if he is intentionally grounding or not.

bottom line is he broke the rule, the ref flagged him. Fair enough. Its up to the fans and coaches to determine whether it was ok.

Personally I didn't think it was a big deal, but it was a flag. Jumping into the stands or into a teammates arms is absolutely nothing like a solo celebration designed to increase face time. I have no problem with the leap or high fives or celebrating. when you start to premeditate a celebration to distinguish you from your teammates and get facetime I have more of an issue.

And yes, I know the leap is "premeditated" but its involving the fans in the celebration and isn't designed by a guy going for "me" time. The NFL drew a line. Excessive celebration or use of props...pretty simple. Stay within the rules or draw a flag.