Dumb luck

[HarveyWallbangers]

Discuss.

[Bretsky]

good teams make their luck
good teams create breaks and capitalize on them

bad teams do not capitalize on breaks
Bad teams allow their weaknesses to create bad luck, so to speak

[RashanGary]

Some if it no, but this was a tough schedule, we missed two game winning FG's, we've had some tough injuries and all of MM's conservative coaching has blown up in his face.

Yes, it's been a season of really bad breaks but the DL was not a bad break. That was a problem from day one. The ST's was not bad luck. It's a little bit of both. I could see this team exploding back on the scene next year, but if Ted really likes these dlineman then I could see it being a similar season next year. I've believed in TT up till this point. It's time for him to put it together. It's not time to stay young and inexperiened. It's time to keep our good players and try to fill in some of the weaknesses.

[channtheman]

Coaching. I know I made a topic about luck, but I see now it is all coaching.

[Bretsky]

Want to talk about bad breaks
The Patriots lost the best player in the NFL


Yet they still stand

[imscott72]

The luck thing only goes so far. Good teams make their own luck. This team has had so many mental breakdowns in 4th quarters, it's like they're playing like they know something bad is going to happen. This team is so young and it's not too surprising to see this happening.

Shame on TT for not spending some of that money that just sat around on some vets that could of helped us out. There's no reason at all we should be the youngest team in the NFL two years in a row. Next year is make or break for both TT and MM. TT needs a monster draft and he needs to make a couple FA splashes. Sitting around being a tightass with the money will NOT be acceptable next year.

[digitaldean]

If you are referring that last year was lucky, maybe so. But any team has to have a run of luck to get the record we had last season. That being said, they cashed in when opportunity reared its head.

This year, I don't attribute much of it to luck. You make your own breaks. And for some unknown reason, they don't have the killer instinct to put away a lesser opponent.

Look at the first Bear game and the Colts game. One game might be a fluke, but those two games weren't a fluke. They played focused in ALL 3 phases. Right now, all 3 phases are more resembling Larry, Moe and Curly. The offense might find a way to get the ball moving, but dumbass playcalling (Carolina, tonight and at the end of the Minn. game) played NOT to lose. That prevent defense type of thinking is poisonous.

Though I think firing MM could be disruptive, that feeling of coaching ineptitude can eat up the locker room. If we lose to Detroit, I'd say screw it and fire them all. M3 had better pray his ass off that this team doesn't find a way to lose to Detroit.

Being a 7-9 team and not making playoffs would hurt, but being a 5-11 team that would lose to an 0-15 squad would make a lot of fans absolutely livid.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Partly true. Or, things don't go your way. Jets went 10-6 in 2006. Pennington got hurt and they went 4-12 in 2007. Steelers went 10-5-1 in 2002, 6-10 in 2003, and 15-1 in 2004. Tennessee was solid every year, went 9-23 in 2004 and 2005, and have been solid since. Seattle went 13-3 in 2006, went 10-6 in 2007, Hasselbeck got injured and they are 4-11 this year. We fix the DL and we'll surprise people next year. We have the QB to lead us.

[channtheman]

Partly true. Or, things don't go your way. Jets went 10-6 in 2006. Pennington got hurt and they went 4-12 in 2007. Steelers went 10-5-1 in 2002, 6-10 in 2003, and 15-1 in 2004. Tennessee was solid every year, went 9-23 in 2004 and 2005, and have been solid since. Seattle went 13-3 in 2006, went 10-6 in 2007, Hasselbeck got injured and they are 4-11 this year. We fix the DL and we'll surprise people next year. We have the QB to lead us.

But do we have the playcaller?

[HarveyWallbangers]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

[digitaldean]

Partly true. Or, things don't go your way. Jets went 10-6 in 2006. Pennington got hurt and they went 4-12 in 2007. Steelers went 10-5-1 in 2002, 6-10 in 2003, and 15-1 in 2004. Tennessee was solid every year, went 9-23 in 2004 and 2005, and have been solid since. Seattle went 13-3 in 2006, went 10-6 in 2007, Hasselbeck got injured and they are 4-11 this year. We fix the DL and we'll surprise people next year. We have the QB to lead us.

Yes, QB is the absolute LEAST of our worries. Finding special teams that can't find those new and inventive ways to give away a game (or blow a TD return with a penalty) would be a godsend.

[Bretsky]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.


Yes, we should go 9-7 next year at least

[red]

when it happens 8 times its not bad luck anymore

[RashanGary]

Partly true. Or, things don't go your way. Jets went 10-6 in 2006. Pennington got hurt and they went 4-12 in 2007. Steelers went 10-5-1 in 2002, 6-10 in 2003, and 15-1 in 2004. Tennessee was solid every year, went 9-23 in 2004 and 2005, and have been solid since. Seattle went 13-3 in 2006, went 10-6 in 2007, Hasselbeck got injured and they are 4-11 this year. We fix the DL and we'll surprise people next year. We have the QB to lead us.

I agree. I still believe in the direction of this team, but it has to show up next year. I can see how this happened this year, but I'll be far less understanding if it happens again.

[Bretsky]

Where in the heck is Tracy White anyways ??????/

He was one of our better ST players and didn't we bring up another furturite and cut his ass ???

[red]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

was it M3's playcalling the last 2 years? or was it a certain qb that use to audible out and call some of his owns plays that weren't so pussified?

[Bossman641]

I really don't even know what I would call this season.

There are so many things going wrong that you can't even pin it on one thing. It seems like NOTHING goes the Packers' way. Rodgers' pass gets deflected and it goes straight up in the air to Alex Brown. A pass bounces off Hester and lands innocently between 3 defenders.

The cb grabs Driver's arm and it is no call. Rouse rides a guy out of bounds and they call horsecollar.

But there's so much more to this than just bad luck or bad calls. Bad coaching, bad execution, stupid players, the same fucing mistakes over and over again.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Missing a GW FG vs. Minnesota, losing the coin toss against Tennessee, having a bad spot on 4th down in this game, hiking it over the guys head against Carolina, having a couple of bad calls in other games (not calling Steve Smith for PI, but then calling our guy for PI on a similar play late in another game) is just pure dumb luck. I could go on, but this has just been one of those years.

[Badgerinmaine]

Want to talk about bad breaks
The Patriots lost the best player in the NFL


Yet they still stand

True, but they stand going into the last week of the season looking at potentially not making the playoffs.

I think things have snowballed for the Packers this year--you get some bad breaks early, and you start pressing, and wondering "are we going to mess this up again?" Bad luck and good luck do create some momentum, even if they are "residue of design".

[channtheman]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

I feel that this is where Favre came into the equation. Favre would go to the huddle and change the play call. When MM would want to run it 3 times in a row, Favre said "Fuck that, we play to win" and would pass the ball.

I could be totally wrong but I don't see how MM regresses so much since I didn't notice such pussy playcalling last year either.

[esoxx]

Where in the heck is Tracy White anyways ??????/



Philadelphia.

He was the leader of that ST crew but was found expendable to promote Lasagna from the Practice Squad.

Bright move.

[channtheman]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

was it M3's playcalling the last 2 years? or was it a certain qb that use to audible out and call some of his owns plays that weren't so pussified?

That's exactly what I think is the problem too. Rodgers is scared to change the play I think and Favre was like "What? You gonna fucking trade me or soemthing?" :D

[red]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

I feel that this is where Favre came into the equation. Favre would go to the huddle and change the play call. When MM would want to run it 3 times in a row, Favre said "Fuck that, we play to win" and would pass the ball.

I could be totally wrong but I don't see how MM regresses so much since I didn't notice such pussy playcalling last year either.

i think you're spot on

[HarveyWallbangers]

Except, Favre admitted he didn't audible much last year. His audibling has done much for the Jets this year. Let's be real. Rodgers made the throw he needed to make. Got the Packers within FG range, then Crosby got a very makeable FG blocked, we lost the OT coin toss, and the defense didn't hang on.

[channtheman]

Except, Favre admitted he didn't audible much last year.

Well in that case, MM has regressed and hasn't shown signs of improvement. Fire him.

[dabootski]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

I feel that this is where Favre came into the equation. Favre would go to the huddle and change the play call. When MM would want to run it 3 times in a row, Favre said "Fuck that, we play to win" and would pass the ball.

I could be totally wrong but I don't see how MM regresses so much since I didn't notice such pussy playcalling last year either.

i think you're spot on

really? do you really think a first year starter should come in and override the coach's calls at the end of a game?

[TennesseePackerBacker]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

I feel that this is where Favre came into the equation. Favre would go to the huddle and change the play call. When MM would want to run it 3 times in a row, Favre said "Fuck that, we play to win" and would pass the ball.

I could be totally wrong but I don't see how MM regresses so much since I didn't notice such pussy playcalling last year either.

i think you're spot on


I think you've both seen too many movies. No QB in the NFL would have a job unless they ran the plays called by the coaches. Check downs and line audibles are part of games, but if you think Favre just called his own play in the huddle you people need your heads checked.

[Bossman641]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

I feel that this is where Favre came into the equation. Favre would go to the huddle and change the play call. When MM would want to run it 3 times in a row, Favre said "Fuck that, we play to win" and would pass the ball.

I could be totally wrong but I don't see how MM regresses so much since I didn't notice such pussy playcalling last year either.

i think you're spot on


I think you've both seen too many movies. No QB in the NFL would have a job unless they ran the plays called by the coaches. Check downs and line audibles are part of games, but if you think Favre just called his own play in the huddle you people need your heads checked.

Agree

TJ Rubley anyone??

No QB would last if the coach is telling him to run dives and the QB is changing the play to a pass, win or lose.

[digitaldean]

OK, OK enough of this Brett would've told MM to screw himself and make the game winning play.

I'd expect that out of Partial or Pacopete, but not from tonight's posters.

I'll buy the uber-conservative playcalling as a cause. I'll also buy the fact that special teams must have to ride the short bus to get to the games, because they play like it.

But in no way on God's green earth does this Favre's presence make a difference with performances like tonights. Last year's teams found ways to win together. Favre carries the team vs. the Chiefs and after falling behind vs. the Seachickens. But the D made HUGE plays when called upon when needed. Crosby nails a tough pressure packed FG in the first game vs. Eagles to seal the deal (thanks to a Philly ST gaffe).

This year, the mentaility of this team is the "Oh no, not again" situation. ALSO, look at the sheer multitude of boneass penalties in this game. If Bush, Moll and Stock were left home, we actually would have won handily tonight. (probably could throw Blackmon in there too)

The D needed to make a stop in OT and failed. The coaches could have called a little more open type of play calling at the end to try and get in the endzone.

Or maybe we just have a team that can learn to do the little things like KICK, TACKLE and BLOCK (without getting a penalty called)!

[esoxx]

Packers still have run/pass option they can check to at the line. I remember after a game earlier this season where MM indicated he felt Rodgers played well but was disappointed on one of his line checks where he went with a throw to Jennings on 3rd down instead of the run called. MM gives latitude to his QB, unlike Sherman who just wanted the play run the way he called it.

[red]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

I feel that this is where Favre came into the equation. Favre would go to the huddle and change the play call. When MM would want to run it 3 times in a row, Favre said "Fuck that, we play to win" and would pass the ball.

I could be totally wrong but I don't see how MM regresses so much since I didn't notice such pussy playcalling last year either.

i think you're spot on


I think you've both seen too many movies. No QB in the NFL would have a job unless they ran the plays called by the coaches. Check downs and line audibles are part of games, but if you think Favre just called his own play in the huddle you people need your heads checked.

i think favre has a set of balls, something m3 obviously doesn't have

and i'm pretty sure one way or the other favre might have tried to win a game or 2 this year instead of running the ball up the middle 3 times and hoping your kicker can make one

[HarveyWallbangers]

Again, last year Favre admitted that he rarely changed a play at the LOS. We remember a few of the changes (the pass to Jennings for the record breaker being one), but let's not pretend Rodgers is fucking up the audibles. Sorry, but even Brett Favre is not going to call an audible out of a run with a minute left in FG range.

[digitaldean]

Red/Esoxx,

Don't even try and run that BS type of logic here.

Besides if we could learn how to block on a freaking kick OR make the previous kick OR, God forbid, learn how to cover or kick a god-damned kickoff the game would've been a win for the Packers.

[red]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

I feel that this is where Favre came into the equation. Favre would go to the huddle and change the play call. When MM would want to run it 3 times in a row, Favre said "Fuck that, we play to win" and would pass the ball.

I could be totally wrong but I don't see how MM regresses so much since I didn't notice such pussy playcalling last year either.

i think you're spot on


who the fuck said anything about where this is rodgers fault?

i'd like to see my quote where i said that
really? do you really think a first year starter should come in and override the coach's calls at the end of a game?

[Fosco33]

I say just "Dumb"

Luck is when opportunity meets preparation. The Packers obviously weren't prepared because they sure had the opportunities this year.

[Bossman641]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

I feel that this is where Favre came into the equation. Favre would go to the huddle and change the play call. When MM would want to run it 3 times in a row, Favre said "Fuck that, we play to win" and would pass the ball.

I could be totally wrong but I don't see how MM regresses so much since I didn't notice such pussy playcalling last year either.

i think you're spot on


I think you've both seen too many movies. No QB in the NFL would have a job unless they ran the plays called by the coaches. Check downs and line audibles are part of games, but if you think Favre just called his own play in the huddle you people need your heads checked.

i think favre has a set of balls, something m3 obviously doesn't have

and i'm pretty sure one way or the other favre might have tried to win a game or 2 this year instead of running the ball up the middle 3 times and hoping your kicker can make one

Week 1 last year


Green Bay Packers at 0:59 PHI GNB
1st and 10 at PHI 31 (:59) B.Jackson up the middle to PHI 30 for 1 yard (M.Patterson, S.Considine).
Timeout #3 by PHI at 00:52.
2nd and 9 at PHI 30 (:51) B.Jackson right tackle to PHI 23 for 7 yards (S.Brown, C.Gocong).
3rd and 2 at PHI 23 (:15) B.Favre kneels to PHI 25 for -2 yards.
Timeout #1 by GB at 00:06.
4th and 4 at PHI 25 (:06) M.Crosby 42 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-R.Davis, Holder-J.Ryan. 13 16
M.Crosby kicks 38 yards from GB 30 to PHI 32. C.Buckhalter to PHI 47 for 15 yards. C.Buckhalter pass incomplete short right to J.Reed.
PENALTY on PHI-S.Brown, Illegal Forward Pass, 5 yards, enforced at PHI 47.
DRIVE TOTALS: PHI 13 GB 16, 4 plays, 6 yards, 0:57 drive, 14:58 elapsed

[red]

Again, last year Favre admitted that he rarely changed a play at the LOS. We remember a few of the changes (the pass to Jennings for the record breaker being one), but let's not pretend Rodgers is fucking up the audibles. Sorry, but even Brett Favre is not going to call an audible out of a run with a minute left in FG range.

maybe it wasn't just audibles

maybe favre would tell him on the sidelines to try, or go for it. maybe he did it during meeting during the week

maybe m3 just had more confidence in favre then he does in rodgers.

whatever the case his, m3 appears to have had his ball removed during the offseason and had them replaced by one or two pussies

[VegasPackFan]

MM has brass balls in the 1st half and balls of mush in the 2nd. His play calling has consistently SUCKED in the 2nd half of games, where he abandons what has worked all game long and goes for the clock-eating plays of run-run-run, punt.

Grow some balls and go for the throat once in a while. I would feel a lot better watching the team go down fighting than with this pansy ass bs we have seen tha last 5 weeks.

MM is supposed to this tough pittsburgh type guy, right? Well, SHOW IT YOU PUSSY!!!

[digitaldean]

I say just "Dumb"

Luck is when opportunity meets preparation. The Packers obviously weren't prepared because they sure had the opportunities this year.

It's preparation, Fosco. Unfortunately, M3, Stock, the ST and the last minute defense have coached/played like they've taken Preparation H.

All the penalties and sloppy special teams play falls on the coaching. Penalties are a mindset. Look at the Steelers O-Line. They went six freakin' weeks without a penalty. That's discipline and attention to detail.

This year, our coaching staff has regressed and so have some of our players.

[esoxx]

Red/Esoxx,

Don't even try and run that BS type of logic here.

Besides if we could learn how to block on a freaking kick OR make the previous kick OR, God forbid, learn how to cover or kick a god-damned kickoff the game would've been a win for the Packers.

Back off Dean.

Read my post again and try to comprehend it.

[dabootski]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

I feel that this is where Favre came into the equation. Favre would go to the huddle and change the play call. When MM would want to run it 3 times in a row, Favre said "Fuck that, we play to win" and would pass the ball.

I could be totally wrong but I don't see how MM regresses so much since I didn't notice such pussy playcalling last year either.

i think you're spot on


who the fuck said anything about where this is rodgers fault?

i'd like to see my quote where i said that
really? do you really think a first year starter should come in and override the coach's calls at the end of a game?

sorry brother. i thought that is where you two were going with this. looking back on it, i jumped to conclusions.

[red]

lets not forget that we had absolutely nothing to lose in this game

and yet he still went conservative in the second half

[Partial]

Want to talk about bad breaks
The Patriots lost the best player in the NFL


Yet they still stand

Yep. Winners don't make excuses. I cannot believe how many of you homers are talking about luck. There isn't any such thing. Good teams overcome adversity through strong leadership. We don't have ANY leadership imo.

[Gunakor]

lets not forget that we had absolutely nothing to lose in this game

and yet he still went conservative in the second half

That's a very good observation actually.

[channtheman]

lets not forget that we had absolutely nothing to lose in this game

and yet he still went conservative in the second half

That's a very good observation actually.

Damn right. In the first half MM is going for it on 4th downs fake punts. I thought he had changed. I remember saying "This is the first time in a while MM has called a game aggressively! 2nd half. Here comes Pussy MM.

Oh and about Favre changing the play. I didn't mean at the end when we were going to kick a field goal (though I do think MM is a pussy for playing for one). I meant more when Rodgers JUST completed a 20 yard pass to Driver and we are at the 50. Now here comes MM and his clock killing run run and then oh it's 3rd and 13 go ahead and throw it now crap. It seems obvious that MM doesn't have confidence in Rodgers that he did have in Favre. I may have gotten carried away with what I said but I think it definitely had something to do with Favre being here.

[BallHawk]

I cannot believe how many of you homers are talking about luck. There isn't any such thing.

So what do you call that ball bouncing off Bush? He couldn't of done anything. Shit happens.

[Partial]

I cannot believe how many of you homers are talking about luck. There isn't any such thing.

So what do you call that ball bouncing off Bush? He couldn't of done anything. Shit happens.

Yeah.. That's one play. One play does not determine a game. I agree shit happens. The same "dumb luck" resulted in the Bears turnovers as well. It's all part of the game.

[channtheman]

I cannot believe how many of you homers are talking about luck. There isn't any such thing.

So what do you call that ball bouncing off Bush? He couldn't of done anything. Shit happens.

Well if Stock tells the dipshit to move up 10 yards and CATCH the ball it never happens. We never adjusted to punts and that was on coaches.

[Bossman641]

I cannot believe how many of you homers are talking about luck. There isn't any such thing.

So what do you call that ball bouncing off Bush? He couldn't of done anything. Shit happens.

Yeah.. That's one play. One play does not determine a game. I agree shit happens. The same "dumb luck" resulted in the Bears turnovers as well. It's all part of the game.

Orton staring holes through receivers is dumb luck? You lost me there bud.

[Bretsky]

I cannot believe how many of you homers are talking about luck. There isn't any such thing.

So what do you call that ball bouncing off Bush? He couldn't of done anything. Shit happens.


I call it balancing the earlier play with the ball not going off of Blackmond for a Bear TD

[Partial]

I cannot believe how many of you homers are talking about luck. There isn't any such thing.

So what do you call that ball bouncing off Bush? He couldn't of done anything. Shit happens.

Yeah.. That's one play. One play does not determine a game. I agree shit happens. The same "dumb luck" resulted in the Bears turnovers as well. It's all part of the game.

Orton staring holes through receivers is dumb luck? You lost me there bud.

I don't think he does it any more or less than the other QB starting. On one of the picks, definitely, the other was iffy at best.

[Bossman641]

I cannot believe how many of you homers are talking about luck. There isn't any such thing.

So what do you call that ball bouncing off Bush? He couldn't of done anything. Shit happens.

Yeah.. That's one play. One play does not determine a game. I agree shit happens. The same "dumb luck" resulted in the Bears turnovers as well. It's all part of the game.

Orton staring holes through receivers is dumb luck? You lost me there bud.

I don't think he does it any more or less than the other QB starting. On one of the picks, definitely, the other was iffy at best.

Which one would you say was definite?

[BallHawk]

I cannot believe how many of you homers are talking about luck. There isn't any such thing.

So what do you call that ball bouncing off Bush? He couldn't of done anything. Shit happens.

Yeah.. That's one play.

Which proves luck exists. Which you said didn't exist. Thus, your theory is proven wrong by your own admission.

/thread.

[digitaldean]

Orton staring holes through receivers is dumb luck? You lost me there bud.

If he follows that logic, all those INTs I saw Randy Wright threw in the 80s while staring at one receiver were plain unlucky. WHO KNEW?!?

[superfan]

Let's look at the key stats. Not sure if these have been updated through the completion of the Monday night Bear game, they come from NFL.com

Total First Downs

GB - 279
OPP - 276

Third Down Conversion

GB - 44.3 %
OPP - 38.9%

Total Offensive Yards

GB - 5134
OPP - 5033

Time of Possession (per game)

GB - 31:43
OPP - 28:51

Turnover Ratio - +6 in favor of Packers

Points Scored - 388
Points Allowed - 359

In terms of primary statistics, the Packers should have a winning record, which makes a case for dumb luck affecting the team this season.

[cpk1994]

But do we have the playcaller?

I've liked his play calling the previous two years. Not so much this year, but I have faith in McCarthy. Division title in 2009.

was it M3's playcalling the last 2 years? or was it a certain qb that use to audible out and call some of his owns plays that weren't so pussified?

That's exactly what I think is the problem too. Rodgers is scared to change the play I think and Favre was like "What? You gonna fucking trade me or soemthing?" :DI disagree. Teams aren't defending Rodgers the way they went against Favre. Has nothing to do with audubles.

[Pugger]

I saw this on another forum but I'm not positive it is a fact:

"The Bears block was an illegal play. We have been penalized for lining up in the center gap facing the center. The Bears put guys in both center/guard gaps and plowed the snapper (Goode) and he ended up on his back. It's an illegal play. The rule is to protect the long-snapper. You can't touch him until his head comes up."

I'm sure MM will send this as well as a couple other instances to NY and we'll get a letter apologizing for the zebras missing more calls... :evil:

[KYPack]

Partly true. Or, things don't go your way. Jets went 10-6 in 2006. Pennington got hurt and they went 4-12 in 2007. Steelers went 10-5-1 in 2002, 6-10 in 2003, and 15-1 in 2004. Tennessee was solid every year, went 9-23 in 2004 and 2005, and have been solid since. Seattle went 13-3 in 2006, went 10-6 in 2007, Hasselbeck got injured and they are 4-11 this year. We fix the DL and we'll surprise people next year. We have the QB to lead us.

The other one I got to thinking about was the Ravens.

They went 13-3

Then they won 5 games.

Ray Lewis staged a last minute palace coup and they ran Billick off.

This year, they are back in the play-offs.

We need to make a few changes, but essentially stay the course and we should be fine.

[KYPack]

Where in the heck is Tracy White anyways ??????/

He was one of our better ST players and didn't we bring up another furturite and cut his ass ???

As was posted, he's in Philly.

And should still be here.

TT has a weakness for young kids.

Essentially, we cut Tracy White for Lasagna. White was a mediocre back-up and ST terror. He played ST perfectly and was a leader. He got everybody fired up, lined up, and lead the charge. Lasagna was a mediocre back-up and ST non-entity, They brought him on the big team for ST, now they have him inactive for most games.

When White was gone, our ST play fell off the table. They had no leader and all the groups floundered.

After injuries, they brought up Havner, who can play ST. Another kid, apparently a good kid. With Havner, we may be OK at that ST slot and have a back-up LB.

But we are lucky to do so. Thompson has got to ID a core group and stick with 'em. White was older and has probably peaked, but so what? When a player can do a job for you, stay with him.

TT is endlessly chasing rainbows. He treats the players like toys. He gets enamored with a new toy and throws the old ones away. When that toy breaks, he throws it away. We can't be young forever. Figure out your team and help 'em grow.

Don't keep bringing in all these "hopes".

[gex]

I cannot believe how many of you homers are talking about luck. There isn't any such thing.

So what do you call that ball bouncing off Bush? He couldn't of done anything. Shit happens.

Well if Stock tells the dipshit to move up 10 yards and CATCH the ball it never happens. We never adjusted to punts and that was on coaches.

Luck is only a small part of this game, good execution, adjustments, and game planning will over come dumb luck and bad calls everyday. We aren't doing those things very well.

[Fosco33]

lets not forget that we had absolutely nothing to lose in this game

and yet he still went conservative in the second half

That's a very good observation actually.

Damn right. In the first half MM is going for it on 4th downs fake punts. I thought he had changed. I remember saying "This is the first time in a while MM has called a game aggressively! 2nd half. Here comes Pussy MM.

Oh and about Favre changing the play. I didn't mean at the end when we were going to kick a field goal (though I do think MM is a pussy for playing for one). I meant more when Rodgers JUST completed a 20 yard pass to Driver and we are at the 50. Now here comes MM and his clock killing run run and then oh it's 3rd and 13 go ahead and throw it now crap. It seems obvious that MM doesn't have confidence in Rodgers that he did have in Favre. I may have gotten carried away with what I said but I think it definitely had something to do with Favre being here.

M3 did go for it in the 2nd half on 4th down inside Bear's 20. Got the 1st down but had to settle for a FG anyway.... He did tighten up a bit but to say he was ultra conservative is a bit harsh. If the kick isn't blocked (or if Mason hadn't missed the earlier FG attempt), game is over.

[superfan]

There is an interesting article on luck in the NFL here:

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/12/luckiest-teams-through-week-15.html

The author crunches a number of key statistics and has developed a formula to determine how many games a team "should" have won based on the stats, and attributes the difference between this number and actual wins as "luck". His methods are debatable, but the results are certainly interesting.

By his calculations, in 2007 Green Bay was the "luckiest" team in the league. GB "should" have won 10.2 games but won 13, and the +2.8 margin was the largest positive margin last season.

In 2008, using the same calculations, GB is the "unluckiest" team in the league. Through week 15, GB "should" have won 7.9 games but won 5, and the -2.9 margin is the largest negative margin through 15 games. After the Bear debacle, I expect this margin to increase.

Also of note - last year the Jets were the 31st team in the league in terms of luck, this year they are 1st. The article mentions, somewhat tongue in cheek, that perhaps his model measures intangible "Favreness" rather than luck.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That is pretty interesting. His conclusion: we should have gone 10-6 last year, but went 13-3. This year, we should have been 8-6 after 14 games, but we were 5-9.

[Guiness]

I saw this on another forum but I'm not positive it is a fact:

"The Bears block was an illegal play. We have been penalized for lining up in the center gap facing the center. The Bears put guys in both center/guard gaps and plowed the snapper (Goode) and he ended up on his back. It's an illegal play. The rule is to protect the long-snapper. You can't touch him until his head comes up."

I'm sure MM will send this as well as a couple other instances to NY and we'll get a letter apologizing for the zebras missing more calls... :evil:

Never heard the 'until his head comes up' rule. Anyone know for sure?

Is it like the rule that states you can't hit a punter while his leg's in the air - which is why you've got these punters with monster follow-throughs, where they basically hop around on one foot for a full second?

[sharpe1027]

Never heard the 'until his head comes up' rule. Anyone know for sure?

Is it like the rule that states you can't hit a punter while his leg's in the air - which is why you've got these punters with monster follow-throughs, where they basically hop around on one foot for a full second?

The Packers got (inccorectly) flagged for this, last year I think. As I understand it, the rule is just about how you line up (can't be directly over the long snapper), what you do after the snap is fair game.

[Fosco33]

"Roughing the Snapper (15 yards and an automatic first down, all levels) - on a punt or field goal attempt, the center is allowed to regain his balance and assume a protective position before he is contacted by the defense."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football_rules


This rule was also enacted in '06...
• During a field goal attempt or a PAT, any defensive player within one yard of the line of scrimmage at the snap must have his helmet outside the snapper’s shoulder pad. This will provide protection to the snapper, who is in a defenseless position. Penalty: Illegal formation, loss of five yards.
Reason for the change: Player safety.

[denverYooper]

There is an interesting article on luck in the NFL here:

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/12/luckiest-teams-through-week-15.html

The author crunches a number of key statistics and has developed a formula to determine how many games a team "should" have won based on the stats, and attributes the difference between this number and actual wins as "luck". His methods are debatable, but the results are certainly interesting.

By his calculations, in 2007 Green Bay was the "luckiest" team in the league. GB "should" have won 10.2 games but won 13, and the +2.8 margin was the largest positive margin last season.

In 2008, using the same calculations, GB is the "unluckiest" team in the league. Through week 15, GB "should" have won 7.9 games but won 5, and the -2.9 margin is the largest negative margin through 15 games. After the Bear debacle, I expect this margin to increase.

Also of note - last year the Jets were the 31st team in the league in terms of luck, this year they are 1st. The article mentions, somewhat tongue in cheek, that perhaps his model measures intangible "Favreness" rather than luck.

Football Outsiders has the Pack's estimated wins at 7.8 to week 15.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2008/week-15-dvoa-ratings

[Partial]

Does he provide a method to his madness? Is he a certified actuary?

[BallHawk]

Does he provide a method to his madness? Is he a certified actuary?

No. He's a guy. Just like everybody else in the sports world. Just a guy.

[Fritz]

Like the Packers' defensive linemen and linebackers?

[Gunakor]

Does he provide a method to his madness? Is he a certified actuary?

Are you arguing his theory, in either case? I think I have to agree with him, both last year AND this year. Last year, the ball bounced our way nearly every single time. This year... Jarrett Bush gets blocked into a punt and makes the momentum changing turnover.

[Rastak]

Does he provide a method to his madness? Is he a certified actuary?

Are you arguing his theory, in either case? I think I have to agree with him, both last year AND this year. Last year, the ball bounced our way nearly every single time. This year... Jarrett Bush gets blocked into a punt and makes the momentum changing turnover.


I subscribe to the Tex theory that it's all pretty much luck. The Lions sure have been having bad luck the last many years.

[Freak Out]

You have to be smart enough to avoid those bad luck situations like that dumbass Bush. :lol: