""ELEMENTS OF DISASTER""

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/36598564.html

[Freak Out]

Two BIG losing seasons for TT and M3. Another and they need to go.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Two BIG losing seasons for TT and M3. Another and they need to go.

I don't even think Bretsky would blame TT for 4-12 in 2005, and M3 wasn't the coach that season. One good season, one average season (8-8), and now this season. We'll rebound next year. I have these threads saved for this time next year. I'll be bumping them.
:D

[Freak Out]

Two BIG losing seasons for TT and M3. Another and they need to go.

I don't even think Bretsky would blame TT for 4-12 in 2005, and M3 wasn't the coach that season. One good season, one average season (8-8), and now this season. We'll rebound next year. I have these threads saved for this time next year. I'll be bumping them.
:D

M3s ass is saved because he was not the coach in 05 but TT may still have to pay for Taco and Samkon. :lol: I hope your right and have good reason the bump these threads bangers.

[b bulldog]

I agree with Harv here. This team is close to being a good team if given a fw breaks and bounces but TT now HAS TO LAND SOME UFA's for the lack of talent at certain positions and for leadership.

[RashanGary]

I agree with Harv here. This team is close to being a good team if given a fw breaks and bounces but TT now HAS TO LAND SOME UFA's for the lack of talent at certain positions and for leadership.

I'm in 100% agreement. You were right with the DL last year. It was OK last year when 100% healthy, but they wore down and I credit you for seeing that before anyone else (cept maybe wist who calls everything negative so he's bound to hit a dart on the board :) )

Anyway, I agree with you and Harvey here. It's a tough, shitty season. Some of these losses have been utterly amazing. The schedule was hard. The injuries piled up. They're not nearly as bad as 2005. I agree that TT has to put more resources to the DL. Without a stronger DL we'll never have a strong defense. Without a strong defense we'll never win a championship.

[PackerTimer]

I agree with Harv here. This team is close to being a good team if given a fw breaks and bounces but TT now HAS TO LAND SOME UFA's for the lack of talent at certain positions and for leadership.

I'm in 100% agreement. You were right with the DL last year. It was OK last year when 100% healthy, but they wore down and I credit you for seeing that before anyone else (cept maybe wist who calls everything negative so he's bound to hit a dart on the board :) )

Anyway, I agree with you and Harvey here. It's a tough, shitty season. Some of these losses have been utterly amazing. The schedule was hard. The injuries piled up. They're not nearly as bad as 2005. I agree that TT has to put more resources to the DL. Without a stronger DL we'll never have a strong defense. Without a strong defense we'll never win a championship.

I'm gonna save time typing and agree with this 100%.

[pbmax]

Here is the question I have about Sanders: His scheme works when he has a pass rush from the front four. He was going to struggle with this this year BEFORE injuries hit the line. Can you imagine another D coordinator making hay with this group? Or did Sanders come late to the multiple front/blitzing party? How many D coordinators in this league can lose the players necessary to pay their D and implement a new style on the fly? I am not saying he should stay, but part of this is injuries and personnel.

Same with Stock. Looked like a genius last year when he had the best talent the Packers had on Special Teams in more than a decade. This year he lost Bodiford and White as well as others. Coach or players?

I lean to letting them both go and especially retool the position coaches so if you need to change a scheme, you can. But I think we are kidding ourselves we would have been playoff contenders given the talent on the field last night.

Last item: McCarthy, your team needs to score more than 17 on the road when it dominates 2 1/2 quarters like your O did yesterday. And I cannot fathom the strides Colledge has made this year. But Spitz and Moll were getting run through. We need another tackle prospect, Spitz at Center and a new RG.

[cpk1994]

Here is the question I have about Sanders: His scheme works when he has a pass rush from the front four. He was going to struggle with this this year BEFORE injuries hit the line. Can you imagine another D coordinator making hay with this group? Or did Sanders come late to the multiple front/blitzing party? How many D coordinators in this league can lose the players necessary to pay their D and implement a new style on the fly? I am not saying he should stay, but part of this is injuries and personnel.

Same with Stock. Looked like a genius last year when he had the best talent the Packers had on Special Teams in more than a decade. This year he lost Bodiford and White as well as others. Coach or players?

I lean to letting them both go and especially retool the position coaches so if you need to change a scheme, you can. But I think we are kidding ourselves we would have been playoff contenders given the talent on the field last night.

Last item: McCarthy, your team needs to score more than 17 on the road when it dominates 2 1/2 quarters like your O did yesterday. And I cannot fathom the strides Colledge has made this year. But Spitz and Moll were getting run through. We need another tackle prospect, Spitz at Center and a new RG.But even with all the injuuries, the defense shouldn't be blowing 4th quarter leads 5 straight weeks. A competent DC can hold at least 2 of those leads. The problem is Sanders is too predictable. The fans see it. The opposing teams are saying it in the media. The only one who can't see it is Sanders and that is why he is a boob and must be fired.

[prsnfoto]

I agree with Harv here. This team is close to being a good team if given a fw breaks and bounces but TT now HAS TO LAND SOME UFA's for the lack of talent at certain positions and for leadership.

I'm in 100% agreement. You were right with the DL last year. It was OK last year when 100% healthy, but they wore down and I credit you for seeing that before anyone else (cept maybe wist who calls everything negative so he's bound to hit a dart on the board :) )

Anyway, I agree with you and Harvey here. It's a tough, shitty season. Some of these losses have been utterly amazing. The schedule was hard. The injuries piled up. They're not nearly as bad as 2005. I agree that TT has to put more resources to the DL. Without a stronger DL we'll never have a strong defense. Without a strong defense we'll never win a championship.



I would agree that they have way more talent then 2005 yet the scores are very similar so that would point to two factors Favre(who played horrible that season) and Sherman(was obviously a way better coach than umpa lumpa).

1 Sun September 11 box L 0-1 @ Detroit Lions 3 17 13 216 170 46 3 18 254 152 102
2 Sun September 18 box L 0-2 Cleveland Browns 24 26 27 452 336 116 2 19 391 336 55
3 Sun September 25 box L 0-3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 16 17 15 260 185 75 4 19 293 132 161 1
4 Mon October 3 box L 0-4 @ Carolina Panthers 29 32 22 352 294 58 2 17 286 196 90 1
5 Sun October 9 box W 1-4 New Orleans Saints 52 3 21 309 215 94 14 254 159 95 5
6 Bye Week
7 Sun October 23 box L 1-5 @ Minnesota Vikings 20 23 19 374 329 45 24 363 255 108 1
8 Sun October 30 box L 1-6 @ Cincinnati Bengals 14 21 23 353 277 76 5 21 317 222 95 1
9 Sun November 6 box L 1-7 Pittsburgh Steelers 10 20 16 268 203 65 3 13 213 59 154 1
10 Sun November 13 box W 2-7 @ Atlanta Falcons 33 25 25 351 244 107 1 19 321 192 129 3
11 Mon November 21 box L 2-8 Minnesota Vikings 17 20 13 236 215 21 2 22 331 171 160 2
12 Sun November 27 box L 2-9 @ Philadelphia Eagles 14 19 18 292 164 128 5 15 264 88 176 1
13 Sun December 4 box L 2-10 @ Chicago Bears 7 19 26 358 258 100 4 10 190 49 141 2
14 Sun December 11 box W 3-10 Detroit Lions 16 13 19 330 149 181 2 11 241 112 129
15 Mon December 19 box L 3-11 @ Baltimore Ravens 3 48 16 288 181 107 5 25 435 253 182
16 Sun December 25 box L 3-12 Chicago Bears 17 24 24 365 300 65 4 16 292 157 135 1
17 Sun January 1 box W 4-12 Seattle Seahawks 23 17 21 314 246 68 3 17 245 147 98 2

[Sparkey]

Here is the question I have about Sanders: His scheme works when he has a pass rush from the front four. He was going to struggle with this this year BEFORE injuries hit the line. Can you imagine another D coordinator making hay with this group? Or did Sanders come late to the multiple front/blitzing party? How many D coordinators in this league can lose the players necessary to pay their D and implement a new style on the fly? I am not saying he should stay, but part of this is injuries and personnel.

Same with Stock. Looked like a genius last year when he had the best talent the Packers had on Special Teams in more than a decade. This year he lost Bodiford and White as well as others. Coach or players?

I lean to letting them both go and especially retool the position coaches so if you need to change a scheme, you can. But I think we are kidding ourselves we would have been playoff contenders given the talent on the field last night.

Last item: McCarthy, your team needs to score more than 17 on the road when it dominates 2 1/2 quarters like your O did yesterday. And I cannot fathom the strides Colledge has made this year. But Spitz and Moll were getting run through. We need another tackle prospect, Spitz at Center and a new RG.

Colledge looked like a piece of marshmallow last night. On the blocked fg at the end of regulation he was 3 yards behind the los grabbing at a guy going past him (Brown the guy who blocked the kick). That OL has a bunch of panzies. Either that or guys teaching the scheme have no clue, because after three years, the players still look like they have no clue how to execute the blocking calls.

[KYPack]

Here is the question I have about Sanders: His scheme works when he has a pass rush from the front four. He was going to struggle with this this year BEFORE injuries hit the line. Can you imagine another D coordinator making hay with this group? Or did Sanders come late to the multiple front/blitzing party? How many D coordinators in this league can lose the players necessary to pay their D and implement a new style on the fly? I am not saying he should stay, but part of this is injuries and personnel.

Same with Stock. Looked like a genius last year when he had the best talent the Packers had on Special Teams in more than a decade. This year he lost Bodiford and White as well as others. Coach or players?

I lean to letting them both go and especially retool the position coaches so if you need to change a scheme, you can. But I think we are kidding ourselves we would have been playoff contenders given the talent on the field last night.

Last item: McCarthy, your team needs to score more than 17 on the road when it dominates 2 1/2 quarters like your O did yesterday. And I cannot fathom the strides Colledge has made this year. But Spitz and Moll were getting run through. We need another tackle prospect, Spitz at Center and a new RG.

I share most of these sentiments.

The Packers D evolved in Miami. Bates tool his personnel and molded a defense. He had two all-pro corners, quick linebackers who need protection to make plays, fast pass rushing DE's. Bates evolved this D. Now, we are stuck with it.

We need help in the DLine to be an effective defense.

But let's take our existing personnel and make a some sets that can make use of their talents. Pop is an aggressive guy who can be effective player if he's moved around. He's not an every down LB who can play well 6 yards deep in Bates' basic shell. Rouse is another guy who can be lethal in some situations. Whether he can help us playing in the Sanders base, I don't know, but I don't think so. It might just take a new coach taking a fresh look at what we have and making it work for us.

Colledge has made great strides this year. Somehow, Spitz has regressed. He has had some terrible games and may not be our RG. Moll is a good back-up guy, but not a starter. I say, keep Cliffy and Tausch (with the injury he can be signed) for one last go and mold us a halfway decent line out of the guys we have. The draft will not help us on OLine next year. I am not down on Wells as most of the posters on here. I see Wells have really good games and on Monday, half the posters on here want him replaced. I don't know why. Spitz is no better center than he is a RG.

I think we need DLine and scheme help to improve the D & growth and coaching to help our OLine. We've got skill guys to be a winning team. We need help in both trenches.

[Noodle]

If we're talking elements of disaster, then when we really need to talk about the OL.

I guess I'm not seeing all this improvement in Colledge. The guy can make a play here and there, but he also gets used with regularity. I didn't see him as a marshmellow Monday night, but if I'm grading him, he gets a C+. That's all he ever seems to get.

So, that's better than the Ds he used to earn, but i still see both interior line positions as big problem.

Moll just got more terrible as the night went on. So yes, keep Tausch by all means, cause there's no one else who can do it.

Pray for Cliffy's knees.