No TV How did Sitton do?

[AV David]

How did Josh Sitton play on Sunday? Barbre?

[cpk1994]

How did Josh Sitton play on Sunday? Barbre?Well, Sitton had a presonal foul for rougness.

[Noodle]

I know Sitton had a holding penalty that killed a drive, but the line as a whole did pretty well, even though they got shuffled like crazy.

Almost 500 yards of total offense kind of speaks for itself, though I don't know what kind of challenge the Lion front 7 present.

Anyway, they started out Cliffy Spitz Wells Sitton Colledge.

Wells rolled his ankle, so then the line became Cliffy Barbre Spitz Sitton Colledge.

Then Barbre rolled his ankle (friggin guys need to wear old school Riddel high tops or something), so it became Cliffy Colledge Spitz Sitton Moll.

[Brohm]

I am surprised they are even functinal given how much they shift around on a regular basis. Makes you wonder how good this unit could be with any consistancy....

[KYPack]

I know Sitton had a holding penalty that killed a drive, but the line as a whole did pretty well, even though they got shuffled like crazy.

Almost 500 yards of total offense kind of speaks for itself, though I don't know what kind of challenge the Lion front 7 present.

Anyway, they started out Cliffy Spitz Wells Sitton Colledge.

Wells rolled his ankle, so then the line became Cliffy Barbre Spitz Sitton Colledge.

Then Barbre rolled his ankle (friggin guys need to wear old school Riddel high tops or something), so it became Cliffy Colledge Spitz Sitton Moll.

Barbre doesn't play much, then gets hurt in a rare shot.

he needs to step it up to stay on the roster.

Another injury, & they would have put Wells back in.

then...Campen said they would have used a DLineman on the OLine.

Wonder who it would have been?

[Noodle]

Barbre doesn't play much, then gets hurt in a rare shot.

he needs to step it up to stay on the roster.

Another injury, & they would have put Wells back in.

then...Campen said they would have used a DLineman on the OLine.

Wonder who it would have been?

Yeah, I think Barbre is just one of those guys who is snake bit here. Time to move on. Maybe he catches fire with somone else, but I'm about done with him.

As to which DL could play OL, I'd initially thought of Kampman as he's the senior in the group, but he doesn't have the gut. So I'd go with Pickett -- smart and fat, the prototypical NFL OL.

[Patler]

Yeah, I think Barbre is just one of those guys who is snake bit here. Time to move on. Maybe he catches fire with somone else, but I'm about done with him.

Way too soon to give up on Barbre. This was only his second year. Last year went about as they expected for him, maybe even a bit better than they hoped. He did not develop as much this year as they hoped, but they figured he would be a little slow developing anyway because of his background. Next year he needs to step up, but I'm not overly concerned with this season.

Moll is the guy who has to improve dramatically, or be replaced.

[sharpe1027]

Way too soon to give up on Barbre. This was only his second year. Last year went about as they expected for him, maybe even a bit better than they hoped. He did not develop as much this year as they hoped, but they figured he would be a little slow developing anyway because of his background. Next year he needs to step up, but I'm not overly concerned with this season.

Moll is the guy who has to improve dramatically, or be replaced.

I tend to agree. I can't see Moll sticking around. Given that he was expected to be a project, I think Barbre still has a shot at becoming as starter next year.

For all the crap that Colledge gets, the guy's ability to play every position (both left and right sides) except for center was huge this year. Even if he is not a pro-bowl caliber starter, the guy is very useful to have on your team.

[Patler]

For all the crap that Colledge gets, the guy's ability to play every position (both left and right sides) except for center was huge this year. Even if he is not a pro-bowl caliber starter, the guy is very useful to have on your team.

Colledge drives me a little crazy. Had Tauscher been playing, I'm not sure the Wynn run would have gone for a TD. You can watch the replay on nfl.com. Colledge blocked three guys. He got a good shove on one about 5 yards downfield, kept his feet not even losing stride, then threw a cut block 10-15 yards downfield that took out 2 Lions. He was still ahead of Wynn at the time. I'm not sure Tauscher would have been fast enough to be there 15 yards downfield to make that block. With plays like that it is easy to see why they have given Colledge all the opportunities they have.

On they other hand, every game he seems to get beaten cleanly at least once, hardly getting a glove on a pass rusher. He just needs to eliminate the one, two or three absolutely horrible plays he seems to have each week. Too often they have come at the most inopportune times.

[AV David]

"Well, Sitton had a presonal foul for rougness."



I am not sure that's a bad thing.

[Guiness]

Colledge drives me a little crazy. Had Tauscher been playing, I'm not sure the Wynn run would have gone for a TD. You can watch the replay on nfl.com. Colledge blocked three guys. He got a good shove on one about 5 yards downfield, kept his feet not even losing stride, then threw a cut block 10-15 yards downfield that took out 2 Lions. He was still ahead of Wynn at the time. I'm not sure Tauscher would have been fast enough to be there 15 yards downfield to make that block. With plays like that it is easy to see why they have given Colledge all the opportunities they have.

On they other hand, every game he seems to get beaten cleanly at least once, hardly getting a glove on a pass rusher. He just needs to eliminate the one, two or three absolutely horrible plays he seems to have each week. Too often they have come at the most inopportune times.

Any chance of someone finding a clip of that?

He has displayed some incredible athleticism, as well as some terrible breakdowns. And the great plays he's made appear to me to be based on talent and skill. I mention this because I can't forget a play Moll made (while at RT) that sprung Grant for a long run. Even when I looked at it the first time, I thought he was more lucky than good - an LB ran into the back of a DL more than anything else.

But where do the breakdowns come from? Is he not assignment sure? Does he not pick up the blitz well and slide to get a piece of the extra guy?

[rbaloha1]

Sitton played well. Assignment sure and finishes blocks well. Plays with an attitude.

Barbre is very athletic. Reaches the second level quickly and plays with nastiness.

Hopefully both guys start since they appear a good fit for the zbs.

[Patler]

Colledge drives me a little crazy. Had Tauscher been playing, I'm not sure the Wynn run would have gone for a TD. You can watch the replay on nfl.com. Colledge blocked three guys. He got a good shove on one about 5 yards downfield, kept his feet not even losing stride, then threw a cut block 10-15 yards downfield that took out 2 Lions. He was still ahead of Wynn at the time. I'm not sure Tauscher would have been fast enough to be there 15 yards downfield to make that block. With plays like that it is easy to see why they have given Colledge all the opportunities they have.


Any chance of someone finding a clip of that?


As I said, its on nfl.com. Wynn's player page, video highlights:
http://www.nfl.com/players/deshawnwynn/profile?id=WYN129025

That clip is a little hard to see. To watch Colledge, use the pause button and advance it "step by step" and watch the right tackle. Credit also has to go to Jordy Nelson, who occupied the DE and allowed Colledge to move up field immediately. Nelson has had a number of those types of plays. Tough kid.

[cpk1994]

"Well, Sitton had a presonal foul for rougness."



I am not sure that's a bad thing.Well it was when they were trying to burn clock at the end. Fortunate it was at the end of a play and it went for a first down.

[Guiness]

Colledge drives me a little crazy. Had Tauscher been playing, I'm not sure the Wynn run would have gone for a TD. You can watch the replay on nfl.com. Colledge blocked three guys. He got a good shove on one about 5 yards downfield, kept his feet not even losing stride, then threw a cut block 10-15 yards downfield that took out 2 Lions. He was still ahead of Wynn at the time. I'm not sure Tauscher would have been fast enough to be there 15 yards downfield to make that block. With plays like that it is easy to see why they have given Colledge all the opportunities they have.


Any chance of someone finding a clip of that?


As I said, its on nfl.com. Wynn's player page, video highlights:
http://www.nfl.com/players/deshawnwynn/profile?id=WYN129025

That clip is a little hard to see. To watch Colledge, use the pause button and advance it "step by step" and watch the right tackle. Credit also has to go to Jordy Nelson, who occupied the DE and allowed Colledge to move up field immediately. Nelson has had a number of those types of plays. Tough kid.

Thanks - good clip.

Is that Nelson lined up just inside Driver, i.e. second from the end of the line?

DD took a good shot at the end of that run when he turned to look at Wynn, and got shoved in the back by a Lions player.

[Noodle]

I understand your position, Patler, but Barbre had a great opportunity to seize a job on this train-wreck of a line, and he never came close. Maybe because of Wahle and Rivera, we tend to be very patient with OL and want to give them years to develop.

Screw that. The Colts started a seventh round draft pick at center this year -- at center! You know, the position where you have to know and make all the line calls, on one of the most fluid and sophisticated offenses in football. Well, the dude got the job done.

Barbre's had more than a fair chance, and hasn't shown me enough.

I share Patler's concerns about Colledge. The guy is a coach killer and a tease. He always shows just enough to keep you interested, like the Wynn run, but in the end, he is terribly inconsistent. He got destroyed on one play around the Detroit 15, causing Rodgers to have to make a great escape and throw to Jennings, and I saw him fail to finish blocks on running plays at least 4 or 5 times. He may be the best we've got, but I'm not sold on the guy.

[sharpe1027]

I understand your position, Patler, but Barbre had a great opportunity to seize a job on this train-wreck of a line, and he never came close. Maybe because of Wahle and Rivera, we tend to be very patient with OL and want to give them years to develop.

Screw that. The Colts started a seventh round draft pick at center this year -- at center! You know, the position where you have to know and make all the line calls, on one of the most fluid and sophisticated offenses in football. Well, the dude got the job done.

Barbre's had more than a fair chance, and hasn't shown me enough.

I share Patler's concerns about Colledge. The guy is a coach killer and a tease. He always shows just enough to keep you interested, like the Wynn run, but in the end, he is terribly inconsistent. He got destroyed on one play around the Detroit 15, causing Rodgers to have to make a great escape and throw to Jennings, and I saw him fail to finish blocks on running plays at least 4 or 5 times. He may be the best we've got, but I'm not sold on the guy.

Regardless of what you think of Colledge as first-teamer, he is a coaches dream for a backup. He can play just about any position. He does seem to completely blow plays, but the number of these blown plays has come down. It seems he is learning. Maybe he will never get all the way there, but I think he might.

As for Barbre, I haven't seen enough of him. At the very least, he seems to be a solid backup. Given his athleticism, I'm sure he'll be given more opportunities.

[Patler]

I understand your position, Patler, but Barbre had a great opportunity to seize a job on this train-wreck of a line, and he never came close. Maybe because of Wahle and Rivera, we tend to be very patient with OL and want to give them years to develop.

Screw that. The Colts started a seventh round draft pick at center this year -- at center! You know, the position where you have to know and make all the line calls, on one of the most fluid and sophisticated offenses in football. Well, the dude got the job done.

Barbre's had more than a fair chance, and hasn't shown me enough.


The Colts may have started a rookie at center due to injuries a couple games, but Jeff Saturday was still their starter at the position. The Packers have had their share of rookie starters on the line over the years too, sometimes successfully (Tauscher, Clifton) sometimes not (Whitticker, Moll) sometimes so-so (Colledge, Spitz). More often linemen wotk into the starting lineup after a year or two.

Last year the Packers were quite happy with Barbre. I don't know what may have happened this year, but Sitton is the new favorite child. I'm willing to see what Barbre can do next preseason before giving up on him. Tony Moll on the other hand....... :?

[Noodle]

Geez, Patler, didn't you hear, Barbre took a swing at a coach, or he slept with a coach, or took a dump in a coach's closet, or some damn thing with a coach. Anyway, it was on the Internet, so it had to be true.

Let me be straight -- I don't have the expertise of guys like KY and ND72 and others to give sound analyses of these guys. I watch 'em as close as I can given the crap TV camera angle and go from there.

What I would LOVE is to get access to the weekly OL grading charts. Absent that, I wish one of the Packer beat writers would make it his job to really know the OL and provide the individual grades and an independent analysis of the players.

Until that happens, I'll rely on my eyes. And they tell me Barbre ain't it.

[Patler]

Geez, Patler, didn't you hear, Barbre took a swing at a coach, or he slept with a coach, or took a dump in a coach's closet, or some damn thing with a coach. Anyway, it was on the Internet, so it had to be true.

Let me be straight -- I don't have the expertise of guys like KY and ND72 and others to give sound analyses of these guys. I watch 'em as close as I can given the crap TV camera angle and go from there.

What I would LOVE is to get access to the weekly OL grading charts. Absent that, I wish one of the Packer beat writers would make it his job to really know the OL and provide the individual grades and an independent analysis of the players.

Until that happens, I'll rely on my eyes. And they tell me Barbre ain't it.

Yeah, the internet is a wonderful thing for false rumors, isn't it? :lol: :lol:

Frankly, I haven't seen enough of Barbre to have much of a feel for him. About all I know of him is what the coaches say (or don't say!) I thought Barbre played OK last year against Detroit, which was one of the reasons people were so high on him for this year. He hasn't played enough this year to know. About all we can be sure of is that he is viewed by the coaches to be behind Sitton.

Years ago one of the writers used to grade each starter individually for each game. Now they do it as a group grade in which they mention individual performances. At the end of the year both the GBPG and the MJS usually grade each player for the year. Often they throw in little insightful comments gathered through out the season. I look forward to those. It might tell us the REAL reason why Barbre was in the doghouse! :D

[KYPack]

Geez, Patler, didn't you hear, Barbre took a swing at a coach, or he slept with a coach, or took a dump in a coach's closet, or some damn thing with a coach. Anyway, it was on the Internet, so it had to be true.

Let me be straight -- I don't have the expertise of guys like KY and ND72 and others to give sound analyses of these guys. I watch 'em as close as I can given the crap TV camera angle and go from there.

What I would LOVE is to get access to the weekly OL grading charts. Absent that, I wish one of the Packer beat writers would make it his job to really know the OL and provide the individual grades and an independent analysis of the players.

Until that happens, I'll rely on my eyes. And they tell me Barbre ain't it.

I'd love to get all-22 game tape to watch, too, Noodle.


The coaches don't want grades (even if done independantly) hitting the papers. That Eric Barancyck guy used to do some of that.

Patler is right. Colledge is one of the best downfield blocking guys we've had in years. He made some spectacular plays of that nature last year. He's average at the point of attack, but he's easily our most improved OLineman this year.

Spitz somehow regressed. He really didn't improve any, if at all. Moll? a back-up. My big hang-up with him is that he is about all he's gonna be. A poor tackle and an iffy guard. You don't have a lot of all-pro's at back-up. But should we pass on Moll and get some kid that might be something someday? I think, yeah, we should.

Sitton? A decent plug ugly. The kind of kid who should help us a lot for a number of years. Sitton has the potential to give us some push in the interior.

The other deal is do we lose both tackles now? Tausch is "contractless" and going to get his knee knifed. Cliffy is on the 16th green. We can't lose 'em both, but we might just do that.

Barbre, I can't figure out. I know how Patler feels. I went to the Detroit game last season & Barbre and Colledge looked like they had played the left side together for 5 years. I thought, OK, there's the left side of the future. This year I never saw that pairing again.

We wound up with the same old, old-guy tackles and inconsistent kids in the interior. When does this bunch gel and show some potential?

I wish I knew.

[Joemailman]

Barbre, I can't figure out. I know how Patler feels. I went to the Detroit game last season & Barbre and Colledge looked like they had played the left side together for 5 years. I thought, OK, there's the left side of the future. This year I never saw that pairing again.

We wound up with the same old, old-guy tackles and inconsistent kids in the interior. When does this bunch gel and show some potential?

I wish I knew.

It was probably understandable that MM decided to stand pat with the OL after a 13-3 season, especially given the success they had in the 2nd half of 2007. However, a 6-10 season could add some urgency to make improvements. I'm thinking Sitton and Colledge may start on the right side next year, and don't be surprised if TT drafts Clifton's eventual replacement on the 1st round this year.

[RashanGary]

I like Sitton and Colledge. I think they'll end up being our best lineman. I like Spitz at center. The tackles are a complete toss up. We'll see how that shakes out. If we find a guard we can always move Colledge out. If we find a tackle we can always keep him inside. He's good wherever he plays in my opinion.