Should Grant be challenge next year?

[LL2]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/36816114.html

Anybody has to admit that was an impressive run by Wynn yesterday. He gives credit to good blocking, but that is what a good RB should get - good blocking. Grant had over 1200 yards this year and that is an impressive year by any standard, but overall I was not too impressed by Grant. His 3.86 yards per carry is not that impressive either. Grant should be better next year by participating in TC, and hopefully the OL will be better. I think the Packers need a bull rushing type of RB like Wynn. Hopefully he can become the number 2 or 3 guy.

On a side note I would like to see the ZBS dropped. What was wrong with the running schemes used when Ahman Green dominated for 3-4 years? GB was a top 5 running team with AG.

[sharpe1027]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/36816114.html

Anybody has to admit that was an impressive run by Wynn yesterday. He gives credit to good blocking, but that is what a good RB should get - good blocking. Grant had over 1200 yards this year and that is an impressive year by any standard, but overall I was not too impressed by Grant. His 3.86 yards per carry is not that impressive either. Grant should be better next year by participating in TC, and hopefully the OL will be better. I think the Packers need a bull rushing type of RB like Wynn. Hopefully he can become the number 2 or 3 guy.

On a side note I would like to see the ZBS dropped. What was wrong with the running schemes used when Ahman Green dominated for 3-4 years? GB was a top 5 running team with AG.

Switching away from ZBS does not mean they will return to the success they had with Green. Many teams that do not use ZBS are still terrible at running. The team has been built for their current scheme and ZBS schemes have been shown to be very successful. The Packers were an average running team this year, but once again picked it up in the second half of the year. If they can start out running the way they finish the year, they could be a top 10 team in rushing. Hopefully, with Grant being available for preseason games and having some consistency in the Oline will help.

[Bub]

Lots of backup RBs have done a good job in the past 2 years when given an opportunity. Morency, Wynn, Herron, and BJax have run well when given carries this year and last.

Wonder if the coaches purposely gave Wynn a few more carries late to save some money on Grant's incentives. Is this money saved on this year's or next year's cap? I don't think they'd do that, but if I was Grant, I'd be pissed I didn't get the carries so close to my goals.

[LL2]

Lots of backup RBs have done a good job in the past 2 years when given an opportunity. Morency, Wynn, Herron, and BJax have run well when given carries this year and last.

Wonder if the coaches purposely gave Wynn a few more carries late to save some money on Grant's incentives. Is this money saved on this year's or next year's cap? I don't think they'd do that, but if I was Grant, I'd be pissed I didn't get the carries so close to my goals.

I doubt that. Grant had plenty of chances to get an extra 45 yards this year to get that bonus. I didn't get to see the game, but was that a running play that Grant fumbled the ball on? If yes, that play alone cost him his bonus money.

[sharpe1027]

Lots of backup RBs have done a good job in the past 2 years when given an opportunity. Morency, Wynn, Herron, and BJax have run well when given carries this year and last.

Wonder if the coaches purposely gave Wynn a few more carries late to save some money on Grant's incentives. Is this money saved on this year's or next year's cap? I don't think they'd do that, but if I was Grant, I'd be pissed I didn't get the carries so close to my goals.

Maybe, but Grant got a lot of carries and had his opportunities just the same. I thought Grant got a very high percentage of the carries all year. I would think he recognizes that.

[BallHawk]

Excuse me if I'm not convinced about Wynn after he runs for 100 yards on the first 0-16 team in NFL history.......

[rbaloha1]

Grant is fine for the zbs. Oftentimes the line did not block well and the hamstring injury hampered explosiveness.

Sometimes Grant missed cutback lanes but improved as the season progressed. Grant also gains extra yards after initial contact.

The trio of rbs should be fine for at least the next 2 years.

[cpk1994]

Excuse me if I'm not convinced about Wynn after he runs for 100 yards on the first 0-16 team in NFL history.......Yeah, how about waiting on carving Wynn's bust in Canton until he does that on a defense with a pulse.

[gbgary]

Switching away from ZBS does not mean they will return to the success they had with Green.

i disagree. grant's best runs are on the plays where it's between the tackles/tightend...up the gut if you will. i've read that mm doesn't even run the zb system right as it's supposed to involve cut-blocks and he doesn't like them.

[sharpe1027]

i disagree. grant's best runs are on the plays where it's between the guards/tightend...up the gut if you will. i've read that mm doesn't even run the zb system right as it's supposed to involve cut-blocks and he doesn't like them.

I thought that the bread and butter of ZBS is runs between the tackles/up-the-gut? Isn't that what Denver and Atlanta do?

I hadn't heard that MM doesn't like cut-backs, where did you read that?

[Guiness]

Excuse me if I'm not convinced about Wynn after he runs for 100 yards on the first 0-16 team in NFL history.......

I seem to remember some anointing Davenport as the second coming after he ran for a couple hundred yards...against Detroit, I think!

[gbgary]

i disagree. grant's best runs are on the plays where it's between the guards/tightend...up the gut if you will. i've read that mm doesn't even run the zb system right as it's supposed to involve cut-blocks and he doesn't like them.

I thought that the bread and butter of ZBS is runs between the tackles/up-the-gut? Isn't that what Denver and Atlanta do?

I hadn't heard that MM doesn't like cut-backs, where did you read that?

don't remember where i read it. it was right after he took over and was getting heat from other teams about it. it's the plays where they try to run wide that fail so much. you know, where he runs sideways and then makes a cut to a hole that's supposed to be there and usually isn't. without the cut-blocks those players are still there clogging-up stuff.

[sharpe1027]

don't remember where i read it. it was right after he took over and was getting heat from other teams about it. it's the plays where they try to run wide that fail so much. you know, where he runs sideways and then makes a cut to a hole that's supposed to be there and usually isn't. without the cut-blocks those players are still there clogging-up stuff.

I am not a big fan of those plays. Although, wasn't the 73 yard run exactly that type of play?

There is a bit of a contradiction. They aren't successful in the ZBS because they run plays that are not traditional ZBS plays, but you want them to scrap the ZBS? Wouldn't that mean that they run more of those types of plays?

I don't think scrapping the entire system and starting over is the answer. That's what teams like the Lions do every other year. Keep the same general system and make the proper adjustments. Their running in the second half of the season was pretty good.

[gbgary]

don't remember where i read it. it was right after he took over and was getting heat from other teams about it. it's the plays where they try to run wide that fail so much. you know, where he runs sideways and then makes a cut to a hole that's supposed to be there and usually isn't. without the cut-blocks those players are still there clogging-up stuff.

I am not a big fan of those plays. Although, wasn't the 73 yard run exactly that type of play?

There is a bit of a contradiction. They aren't successful in the ZBS because they run plays that are not traditional ZBS plays, but you want them to scrap the ZBS? Wouldn't that mean that they run more of those types of plays?

I don't think scrapping the entire system and starting over is the answer. That's what teams like the Lions do every other year. Keep the same general system and make the proper adjustments. Their running in the second half of the season was pretty good.


i didn't see the play...started watching in the second quarter. i'd like us to go back to the system we had when green was with us. now please don't tell me that was the zbs. :oops:

[chain_gang]

I don't know if so much he should be challenged, as we need a Speed Back, you know like a Sproles, Washington, Norwood, type of back. I'd love to see a back in Green Bay the just creates matchup nightmares for the the defense in the pass catching area, right now we don't have a back that can create that type of mismatch, but we sure as hell could use one.

[sharpe1027]

i didn't see the play...started watching in the second quarter. i'd like us to go back to the system we had when green was with us. now please don't tell me that was the zbs. :oops:

Nope, definitely not ZBS with Green, but they don't have the same players and coaches they had back then. Switching to that same scheme won't produce the same results.

I am not in favor of a drastic switch. If they were to switch, I would guess that it would be 2-3 years before they were able to get anywhere near effective production, if ever. They would need to get the right type of coaching staff, players and get them time working together as a unit.

ZBS schemes have produced some of the best rushing attacks in the league. Figure out what is being done wrong and fix it. Don't start from scratch.

[Patler]

I sort of like what Wynn can do when he wants to and isn't hurt. But the long run yesterday really wasn't too meaningful to me. He was not touched at all until a diving attempt at the goal line. No Lion was close to making a tackle or even slowing him up. It developed almost like a perfect punt return, with a wall set up along the sideline and the runner running untouched.

[Lurker64]

I'm not sure I understand the question exactly. Will the Packers give opportunities to running backs other than Ryan Grant next year? Yes. It's not as though teams have only one RB and run him into the ground until his legs fall off. Will Grant go into the season as the presumptive starter at RB? Absolutely, barring unforeseen circumstances. Is there a need to go after other RBs in order to deal with any perceived inadequacies in Grant's game? Nope. Between Grant, Jackson, Lumpkin, and Wynn I think we can put together a pretty serviceable trio. The time to speculate about which three of those guys is the best is probably several months from now.

[ND72]

if you are refering to Wynn being the guy to challenge Grant, then the answer is an easy NO.

[Gunakor]

Lots of backup RBs have done a good job in the past 2 years when given an opportunity. Morency, Wynn, Herron, and BJax have run well when given carries this year and last.

Wonder if the coaches purposely gave Wynn a few more carries late to save some money on Grant's incentives. Is this money saved on this year's or next year's cap? I don't think they'd do that, but if I was Grant, I'd be pissed I didn't get the carries so close to my goals.

Grant had the 4th or 5th most carries in the NFL this season, so he has nothing to argue about. He got his chances.

Still, 1200 yards is a fine season by any measure. I don't think we need to see a change at starter, though I wouldn't mind seeing his workload drop a tad.

[BallHawk]

Excuse me if I'm not convinced about Wynn after he runs for 100 yards on the first 0-16 team in NFL history.......

I seem to remember some anointing Davenport as the second coming after he ran for a couple hundred yards...against Detroit, I think!

And Davenport had a big game against St. Louis on MNF (Favre's 200th consecutive start, I think) but everybody knew that Green was the guy.

Grant's the guy. It's that simple.

[bobblehead]

i disagree. grant's best runs are on the plays where it's between the guards/tightend...up the gut if you will. i've read that mm doesn't even run the zb system right as it's supposed to involve cut-blocks and he doesn't like them.

I thought that the bread and butter of ZBS is runs between the tackles/up-the-gut? Isn't that what Denver and Atlanta do?

I hadn't heard that MM doesn't like cut-backs, where did you read that?

don't remember where i read it. it was right after he took over and was getting heat from other teams about it. it's the plays where they try to run wide that fail so much. you know, where he runs sideways and then makes a cut to a hole that's supposed to be there and usually isn't. without the cut-blocks those players are still there clogging-up stuff.

Pretty sure you got some misinformation here. MM loves cut blocks and was very open about it. A few of our DL complained and several opponents, but MM clearly said "hey, its in the rules we would be foolish not to use it".

[Gunakor]

i disagree. grant's best runs are on the plays where it's between the guards/tightend...up the gut if you will. i've read that mm doesn't even run the zb system right as it's supposed to involve cut-blocks and he doesn't like them.

I thought that the bread and butter of ZBS is runs between the tackles/up-the-gut? Isn't that what Denver and Atlanta do?

I hadn't heard that MM doesn't like cut-backs, where did you read that?

don't remember where i read it. it was right after he took over and was getting heat from other teams about it. it's the plays where they try to run wide that fail so much. you know, where he runs sideways and then makes a cut to a hole that's supposed to be there and usually isn't. without the cut-blocks those players are still there clogging-up stuff.

Pretty sure you got some misinformation here. MM loves cut blocks and was very open about it. A few of our DL complained and several opponents, but MM clearly said "hey, its in the rules we would be foolish not to use it".

I'd assume he read that MM doesn't like to use cut blocks in practice, something I think I've read somewhere too.

[channtheman]

Maybe I'm alone in this but I thought Wynn looked slow that whole running play. He never had a burst of speed and then he started jogging and slowing down at the 50. Even on a long TD run, it looked like he didn't care halfway through the run. And he fumbled late in the game after we had gotten a big first down.

[Fred's Slacks]

I'd assume he read that MM doesn't like to use cut blocks in practice, something I think I've read somewhere too.

Yeah, nobody uses cut blocks in practice unless you're doing it on practice dummies. It's far too dangerous.[/list]